Contract negotiators for Lawrence teachers and the school board remained about $140,000 apart Friday evening on salaries with other issues still up in the air.
“We recognize that a lot of teachers are taking home less pay this year than they took home last year because of the fringe benefits package cost, and so we’re trying to just get as much as we can for them,” said Lois Orth-Lopes, representing the teachers as chief negotiator for the Lawrence Education Association.
More than 100 teachers looked on Friday at school district headquarters as their negotiators proposed $600,000 be spent on salary increases.
School board negotiators stuck by their previous offer of $460,000 more for salaries because they said the district was already forced to cut $1.6 million because of the economic recession, and administrators fear more cuts are coming in the next two years.
“The board’s goal has been to keep as many people employed as possible,” said Frank Harwood, the district’s chief negotiator. “And we know that anything we add to the salary schedule is ongoing expenses. It will just be more things we have to cut out of the next year’s budget.”
The salary proposals mainly differ on how the money would be spent.
The LEA’s offer includes $140,000 for horizontal movement on the salary schedule, which rewards teachers increasing their own college credit hours or earning a higher degree. The teachers’ offer would also include adding money to boost vertical movement, which rewards teachers for years of service with the district.
School board negotiators agree to the $140,000 for horizontal movement, but they want to spread the rest of the extra money out among all certified, licensed staff for a one-time payment of $350, which LEA negotiators oppose.
Teachers also presented data from the Kansas National Education Association that the Lawrence district slipped in the last year in teacher salary and benefits rankings in the state from 88th to 98th. They also said Lawrence improved from 38th to 35th in principal salaries and benefits, and held steady at 16th for superintendents.
Orth-Lopes also said in the single-income, four-person family of a new Lawrence teacher on a starting salary of $34,380, the children would qualify for free or reduced-price lunches.
Harwood said it can be tough to compare teacher contracts in the state because they all include different benefits.
“I don’t think the board is arguing we wouldn’t like to pay teachers more. It’s just the board members are working on the amount of money they have and balancing all of the different parts of the budget that they have to work with,” he said.
In other topics of the session, teachers asked for a health savings account option to be added to the district’s health care plan in January. Harwood said board negotiators were not opposed to that, but they needed to investigate its effect more.
Orth-Lopes said because of tight budget times, the teachers are wanting to make more progress on contract items that don’t cost a lot of money, like the district’s leave policy, extra professional development requirements and how the work day is handled.
The two sides will return to the table at 4:30 p.m. Oct. 7 at Lawrence High School, 1901 La.
“We’re getting to the point where we’re pretty close,” Orth-Lopes said. “But if we can’t move, we have to do something about it.”
Comments
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LogicMan (anonymous) says…
"$600,000 be spent on salary increases"
Salary _increases_? This year? Unless there's reduced headcount I don't see how that's do-able or wise since more and deep state funding cuts are likely.
artichokeheart (anonymous) says…
Doable or not it needs to be done. The state clearly does not value those who give so much to our children.
youngjayhawk (anonymous) says…
Teachers -
Hang in there and hold out for what is rightfully yours. If district officials can spend $$$ on state-of-the-art sports facilities, they can find $140,000 to put into teacher salaries! You might consider seeking employment in districts like Blue Valley where you can make thousands more; give up your loyalty to a district that does not value you!
good luck!!!
monicalewinsky (anonymous) says…
Teachers are not highly valued in USD 497. The LJW understates the HUGE discrepancy in salaries for Lawrence teachers vs. salaries for surrounding districts, and even smaller ones at that. The teachers in this community do the real work of the district--working with kids. My kids teachers have been very high quality and caring individuals. If cuts need to be made, they should look at classified staff and administrators. Raising class size or losing high quality teachers to other districts will only hurt students. Losing some administrators and secretaries won't even be felt by students in the slightest. Think about it.
sustainabilitysister (anonymous) says…
It's a bummer that USD 497 does not value their teachers more. It's the university town effect where they view teachers as replaceable due to the number of new teachers that enter the job world each year in Lawrence. This is very unfortunate. International teaching jobs pay significantly more for teachers with U.S. teaching credentials.
kugrad (anonymous) says…
Each year, some employees gain more education and training and qualify to move to a different category on the salary schedule (that was negotiated and is part of their contract) which qualifies them for more pay, pay they earned. For example, you might have a Master's degree and have earned 15 more graduate credit hours, moving you to the Master's plus 15 category. The board has an obligation to fund this movement, the cost of which varies from year to year. This year it is in the ballpark of $180,000.
Next is the issue of moving people on the salary scale for experience. This doesn't actually apply to every teacher, as some are already at the top of the scale (meaning there is no more room to move for experience). Some years the negotiation may result in them not moving for experience. However, they deserve to move as that is the clear intent of a salary scale based on years of experience.
It costs quite a bit to implement this move, but it could be viewed as honoring of the board's obligation to pay teachers based on experience and that would perhaps be more valid than referring to it as a "raise."
If I understand the current teacher proposal, they are recognizing that the district failed to budget money to implement the salary scale so now they don't have enough left to pay teachers what they owe them. If this doesn't say we don't respect you, i don't know what does.
So the teachers are saying, "At least add a paltry sum to the scale." I think it comes out to something like $200 a teacher, but it could be as much as $350. At any rate, using the higher number as an example and pretending teachers only work during the school year, there are 36 weeks in a school year and a week of days with no students. Multiply 37 times 5 days (pretending teachers don't work weekends), multiply that product by 8 hours and you have the total number of hours worked in a year. Divide $350 by that number of hours. You come up with something like a 23cent per hour raise (keeping in mind that NO teacher I know works only 8 hours a day with no weekends and no work outside the contract year).
I think teachers deserve a great deal more than that and it makes the $600,000 figure have a great deal more perspective.
KEITHMILES05 (anonymous) says…
Why can't you just get along?
weeslicket (anonymous) says…
the ljw reporter was given a copy of the salary facts yesterday. a very succinct and eye-opening document. but, none of that information is reported in this newspaper.
why does the ljw continue to NOT report the facts??
farva (anonymous) says…
Why should school teachers be treated different than any other govt. employee? No other public job in KS am I aware of that you get an automatic pay raise just for taking a few more classes or getting a Masters Degree. And the masters degrees teachers get are simple and don't take long to complete compared to real masters degrees that require real work.
They get substantial amount of state funding to pay for salaries. Hold them to the same standards of other state employees. $34,000 looks good as a starting salary for these relatively easy jobs. As long as you can deal with kids, teaching is not a hazardous or difficult job by nature, especially K-10 grade teachers. a $34380 salary comes out to be $22/hour for their work year, plus any coaching or extra-curricular activities they are involved in. They can get a job over their summer, winter, and spring break time off if they want more money. Hold them to the same standards of state workers, give them no salary raises ever (OK, maybe 1% COLA raise every 9 years or so), and eliminate the scam of extra money for unnecessary extra degrees. If they don't like it, then give back all state aid and then play how they want using the local tax-base funding.
artichokeheart (anonymous) says…
weeslicket (Anonymous) says…
"the ljw reporter was given a copy of the salary facts yesterday. a very succinct and eye-opening document. but, none of that information is reported in this newspaper.
why does the ljw continue to NOT report the facts??"
If you have the numbers post them.
Sulla (anonymous) says…
The problem is at the top in the 497 district: there are so many goldbricks at the administrative level and they are robbing the public blatantly and laughing about it with a wink and nod from those resume padders on what is called a school board.
Some people don't get it that it is all politics with ESDC and F&O: who cares if teachers are paid what they deserve and who cares what the school buildings look like in conditioning?
Made_in_China (Paul R. Getto) says…
The problem lies with the legislature. Raise taxes or eliminate some tax exemptions. The 10% of us left to fund property taxes are being abused. Read the WSU Hugo Wall institute studies on 'erosion of the property and sales tax base' for more detailed information. Easily found on the internet.
FastEddie (anonymous) says…
Why don't more people try to do such an "easy job"? I don't know why anyone wouldn't want such a cushy job with summers off. I don't know why it is so hard to fill some teaching positions. Teaching sounds so dreamy! Try it out, farve.
Made_in_China (Paul R. Getto) says…
F.E. Good point. Teaching and school leadership, done well is demanding, difficult and exhausting. Good teachers spend so many hours outside 'the work day' doing school related work that they burn up about the same number of hours as a typical 40 hour, 50 week emploiyee. Once, in New York City during a teacher's strike. They let anyone who wanted the pay to try substituting in schools. 90% give or take refused to return for the second day. Not all teachers are highly skilled, but most of them are saints and one of them probably saved your child during their 13 years in public school.
artichokeheart (anonymous) says…
I wouldn't say teachers have a easy job. Not only do they have to teach children but they also have to deal with gang, violence, drugs and many unruley students.
Sulla (anonymous) says…
You are correct Made_in_China, but these 'administrators' are largely useless with mere ceremonial positions and are paid more than teachers are.
Teachers have it easy and are overpaid already?? Hey parents, teachers are raising your brat kids for you and USD 497 teachers are some of the lowest paid in the State(yes).
KSManimal (anonymous) says…
One of the facts: Compared to Lawrence, many teachers could earn anywhere from a couple thousand more to $19,000 MORE in surrounding districts.
But hey, at least they get less health insurance coverage!
volunteer (anonymous) says…
At least both sides are remaining civil.
Where is the LJWorld article giving details about all area school districts and the results of their negotiations? If other districts, even those with declining enrollment, have decided they could afford step increases for experience as well as for extra education, that would give us some context in which to view the Lawrence teachers' plea for similar treatment.
The Board would help matters if they managed to combine some positions in the central office as Topeka did.
lawrenceguy40 (anonymous) says…
Remember teachers only "work" less than nine months out of the year. Wish I could stand in front of a room of kids and make starting pay of $22 an hour.
We are taxed too much already. We should be looking at reducing pay in Barry O's economic climate. Many of workers in the real world have taken huge pay cuts recently - why not those we fund involuntarily?
Valkyrie_of_Reason (Kathy Getto) says…
Getting rid of "useless" administrators is just a bandaid. The problem lies in those who believe we should pay no taxes and therefore leave schools unfunded. It's not about what teachers "have" to do, i.e., putting up with violence, drugs or unrulely (sic) students, but about investing in the future.
lawrenceguy - I would give you three days with a classroom of kindergartners and you would run screaming from the building.
tomatogrower (anonymous) says…
Most teachers I know work up to 50 hours or more per week, during their "nine months". Of course, lawrenceguy40, you have no children, or you would know that the year ends at the end of May, but the kids go back in the middle of August, and the teachers have had to report a week before that, so the nine months is more like almost 10 months. If you figure the school year is four 9 week quarters, and that the teachers don't touch anything during the Christmas and spring breaks, which is highly unlikely, then you have an extra 360 hours beyond a typical 40 hour week for those 36 weeks. So then you divide 360 by 40 and you get nine weeks in the year, so they really work as hard as all of us do, but they do it all in a shorter time. Also, I don't have to take classes, that I have to pay for myself to stay certified. And most of my friends pray that they can take those classes in the summer, so it won't be so burdensome. Yeah, those teachers have it so easy.
KSManimal (anonymous) says…
I've grown weary of people saying teaching is an easy, overpaid profession.
With any job, there is what I call the "Benefit to BS ratio". Huge amounts of BS can be tolerated if the benefits (financial and otherwise) are high enough.
Jobs with high Benefit to BS ratios have TONS of people competing for jobs, since lots of folks want those jobs. Conversely, if a job offers little benefit but tons of BS you won't see many people entering the profession, and many who start wind up leaving as soon as they can.
Here are my questions for Lawrenceguy, Pogo, Farva, and others of like mind: If teaching is so easy and so overpaid, why are there not applicants lined up around the block waiting to get into the profession? Why do more than half of new teachers leave the profession within the first five years? Why do Kansas' schools open with 200-400 unfilled teaching positions each year - a trend seen nationally as well?
I would think that such an easy, overpaid job would attract and retain employees; yet, teaching seems to do the opposite. Why is that?
waswade (anonymous) says…
I have worked within the school district for 13 years, in varying positions. NEVER before have I witnessed such a lack of support by administration for the work teachers do daily. I have seen a deterioration policies, professionalism and adequate evaluation of teacher performance. Great teachers are leaving the district and the piss poor ones are staying. This district is loosing it's reputation for quality and something needs to be done NOW>
sunny (anonymous) says…
The country is in a recession! Why do teacher think they should be guaranteed a raise every year? There are freezes on hiring and pay raises every where. Be grateful you have a job!
lawrenceguy40 (anonymous) says…
If you can't, teach!
farva (anonymous) says…
By your theory daycare workers should be making $45,000 a year because they have to put up with crying, fights, dumb parents, and strict rules and safety regulations too. They work long hours and often have to give up weekends for training. Those workers also have to have continuing education. But since they work year-round, they should be paid more than teachers. And what about social workers that get paid thousands less than teachers, but are required to work long hours and be on call?
There are all kinds of workers in the public jobs that have more responsibility with higher skill/education than teachers. I never said teaching was easy, but it's easier than other jobs that are paid equivalently or lower than teaching. Teachers should not be able to stand on a pedestal and claim the "children" card to get whatever they want. If they are working so hard to provide such a quality education, how come KS educational achievement levels, and those of the country in general, or lowering? We are spending all types of money on air conditioning, fancy buildings with fancy architecture, electronic components above and beyond a PC with typical software, teacher salary raises, but yet people are graduating with less and less knowledge and now college classes are incredibly dumbed down to make up for the shortfall from the K-12 system. Teachers and school districts should be held to the same standards as the rest of the public work society, and compared to the standards of the rest of the public sector, they are compensated right where they need to be.
kugrad (anonymous) says…
Farva,
Your comments show you have great ignorance on this subject. First: Why should teachers get a raise for experience and increased education? Because that is the negotiated contract. That is the agreement. That is the salary schedule that was implemented. They deserve it.
As for their Masters Degree being "Easy," what planet are you from? What baloney. You have no idea what you are talking about.
Then you prove your complete ignorance by calling teaching "this relatively easy job," as though it is something anyone could do. You are wrong about that. You make it sound like elementary is a breeze in particular. I won't call this a lack of respect for the job; it is simply ignorance on your part. You have no idea what goes into the job, or you would never use such language. A typical elementary class has perhaps 70-80% average learners who are probably going to proceed through the curriculum normally, provided that you are a skilled teacher who can handle classroom management (no 'easy' task). But then you have 2 or 3 who need enrichment and special attention, and another 4 or more who have learning problems and need much modification, special instruction in reading and math, etc., and probably one student who has a severe disability of some sort and requires a huge amount of modification. You also may have a behaviorally challenged student or two who are not ready to learn. Among your average students will be some whose home life fails to meet their basic emotional and/or physical need, so although they have the ability to do well, it will take a lot of extra work to get them there.
Teaching is hard. Teaching reading is hard. Remediating math and reading difficulties is hard. Classroom management is hard. Your comments are simply a reflection of your ignorance on these matters.
artichokeheart (anonymous) says…
You have that right tomatogrower but I venture to say teachers put in more than 50 hours a week. Some will never appriciate what teachers do.
I tend to agree that adminstration is top heavy as is support staff. Honestly I know a few who work for school districts that shouldn't be allowed around children. The teachers who stay despite the wages are the ones who really care. Sadly most parents don't give them a second thought.
altarego (anonymous) says…
"There are all kinds of workers in the public jobs that have more responsibility with higher skill/education than teachers."
Incorrect.
lristh1230 (anonymous) says…
Teachers work less here than any other school district, no new pay raise!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Work more then get paid more.
Number_1_Grandma (anonymous) says…
With such poor pay, appreciation, working over 50 hrs a week and hardly a raise every year.....I don't know why anyone would want to be a teacher....LOL
A lot of people are making less or even without. Why should teachers be any different?
oohmgrover (anonymous) says…
Sure, simply getting up and talking all day and telling kids to be quiet sounds easy. If you want to be a mediocre to terrible teacher, that would be all that you need to do and you probably wouldn't deserve the promised pay increases.
However, being a quality educator, something that most teachers do strive for, requires a great deal of thought, research, time, and effort that goes well beyond a 40 hour work week. In this changing generation of students that live to text and be constantly entertained or else they will change the channel, it is a challenge to keep students involved and interested while still increasing their critical thinking skills and their basic knowledge. Then to accurately assess their learning, multiple choice doesn't cut it (although it is certainly easy and quick to grade), which leaves you with over 100 essays or short answer tests to grade.
I could go on and on, but most of the people who go into this profession aren't doing it to get rich and aren't doing it so that they can kick back, talk all day, and count the days to retirement. We are doing it because we love it, but that doesn't mean that it isn't hard and that it doesn't emotionally drain you some days when the kids that you love are hurting and when no one will sit still for five minutes. Teachers are only asking for what is promised to them when they sign a contract with a district, which is that when they stay with a district or when they further their learning to help students, they will move up on the agreed upon salary scale.
Also, while normally there is a drought of teachers, this year there are over 600 subs in each of the big three districts in Johnson County. There are certainly unfilled positions, but due to the budget cuts and the top heavy but overly compensated administrative positions, hundreds of qualified teachers (like myself) are barely making ends meet doing odd jobs and subbing.
cherry1 (anonymous) says…
When I got my job, I was thrilled because this district was my first choice. I have a master's degree in my content area and, after teaching college, decided my time was better spent in a high school where I could prepare students for the challenges that await them after secondary graduation. I earned my teaching credential and got the job I wanted most where my colleagues are bright and dedicated, and my students are the reason I get excited to go to work each day. I am incredibly lucky to be a part of their triumphs, and count myself blessed to be a part of a family of strong teachers who choose everyday to forgo large paychecks so that we can give something back to the community in which we live.
I knew I would not get rich by becoming a high school teacher, but I never I would be devalued by my school board and fellow citizens. I do not expect to be given more than I was promised, I don't expect to be compensated for work I'm not doing, I'd just like the same respect McDonald's employees get: if job performance evaluations have been successfully passed, they get raises at a predetermined rate. If the district chooses to rehire me year after year because I am doing a good job, then shouldn't I get the increase in compensation I was promised?
What would happen if all teachers simply worked the hours our contract asked of us? No emails or phone calls to parents after the duty day, no planning of lessons or grading of papers outside of the building, no communication with students beyond the school day, no attending school functions to support the building/district/students? If you've ever had a teacher who made a difference in your life by doing something beyond his/her job description, or have had a teacher make your child's life better, then I beg you to support the USD 497 teachers in our bid to earn, if not more money, at least a little more respect.
farva (anonymous) says…
1. Masters degrees that teachers take are indeed much easier than traditional masters courses. You go to a class once or twice a week in the evening and in a year or two you are done. All bookwork and reports/papers. Outside of teachers and business type masters programs (MBA, etc) I cannot think of any other master's program that you could do with a full-time job. Especially one that requires so much time and effort as a teaching job claims.... It doesn't matter if you have a masters degree about how to more "effectively teach" when quite a few (in general) do not have a deep knowledge of the subject they teach. I don't see biology/chemistry teachers taking real science masters classes, the research time required would be impossible to accomplish. Those are 2-3 year programs of full-time studies with your research project on top of any actual class time.
2. I graduated from a college with a known reputation for their teaching program. They took the gen eds and after that it was basically all touchy-feely classes. They would have decent GPA's but couldn't complete basic math equations, didn't know general biology principles, and couldn't write a good paper (poor grammar and spelling). I know because I was constantly teaching and tutoring them. Yes, these are the ones that will be teaching your kids.
3. Why do teachers have a sense of entitlement? They keep claiming they "deserve it." Well, you can ask any employee anywhere and they will say the same thing. As long as state aid goes to schools, they should be treated the same as other state workers. No automatic pay raise because you get some extra education (more education does not make you a better teacher in itself). No more seniority pay (older teachers aren't always better) unless the state govt. authorizes step increases across the board, and then only if you have positive performance evaluations.
I'm not saying teachers are lazy or bad, my point is that they should be treated the same as other public employees! I know plenty of public workers that put in way more than 40 hours weekly for no compensation (the workload requires more than 40 hrs to complete. If you claim over 40 hours you will get reprimanded, if you stop at 40 you get reprimanded for not completing all tasks, forcing donated labor). They too are dedicated a deserve raises but receive none.
If a high school teacher starts out at $35,000/year, what should a starting salary for a PhD level educator (not researcher) at a university be? What are the maximum salaries a teacher can make in Lawrence and how long does it take to reach the max?
christie (anonymous) says…
It will be a great day when teachers are paid what they are worth and the Military has to hold a bake sale to buy a new bomber.
Shardwurm (anonymous) says…
I'm not opposed to paying good teachers what they earn. The trouble with our system is that good, bad, indifferent - it doesn't matter. Everyone gets a pay raise.
Until the system is revised and we can reward performers and fire the bad ones (e.g. eliminate tenure and dissolve the union) then I'll oppose every pay raise...not that what I think matters really.
Allow parents and children input into the teacher's evaluation - you know, the customers - and hold them accountable for a change. Teachers generally whine about how bad they have it...and they do that so you don't look too deeply into what they're doing in the classroom and what benefits they have.
12 days of vacation, three months off during the summer, holiday breaks, spring break, federal holidays...and the number of working days for a teacher drops way below what a typical professional does. What's a teacher man-year anyway? 175 days? And they want $75,000 a year for that? Sign me up too!
Pay the good ones more and get rid of the bad ones. What's wrong with that philosophy?
honestone (anonymous) says…
Shardwurm...the trouble with Pay-For-Performance is on what standard do you use to evaluate that teacher? No Child Left Behind is another example of trying to draw that line. The line isn't a line but rather a wave with ups and downs.
labmonkey (anonymous) says…
Half the people say teachers are underpaid, and half think they are overpaid...which means they are getting paid just about right.
commuter (anonymous) says…
Must be nice thinking getting a raise because you think you deseerve it. For people who do not work for the county, city, USD 497 or KU try this, go into your bosses office on Monday and tell him/her that you deserve of raise of 5% and see what happens.
I value great teachers but the LEA and union help create and protect medriocracy.
tomatogrower (anonymous) says…
"Until the system is revised and we can reward performers and fire the bad ones (e.g. eliminate tenure and dissolve the union) then I'll oppose every pay raise…not that what I think matters really."
In an ideal world, I would agree with you, but I used to work in the school system, and I've seen a lot of bad teachers who are buddies with the administration, and they would never be let go. I've also seen some very good coaches, who are lousy teachers, but guess what? Sports will win out, and they'll let a really good teacher go, before they get rid of the coach. I've seen administrators give a teacher a hard time, because their lazy kid didn't make an A. If they could come up with an objective evaluation, then I would agree with you, but that just isn't going happen. That's what tenure is really suppose to protect, not bad teachers. And there is a system set up to get rid of bad teachers. The principal just needs to give them bad evaluations and document why they should be let go. Then no one can fight it. Make the administrators do their work.
nascar (anonymous) says…
Poor administrators help create and protect mediocracy-not the union. When administrators are absent from buildings and classrooms the necessary evaluations are not conducted. An evaluation process agreed upon at the negotiations table by both parties, BOE and teachers' association, is quite clear but the process must be followed. The administration must set that process in motion. This requires observation and evidence must be recorded good or bad. When administrators fail to do their duty the contract is upheld.
Made_in_China (Paul R. Getto) says…
"Some will never appriciate (sic) what teachers do.
I tend to agree that adminstration is top heavy as is support staff. Honestly I know a few who work for school districts that shouldn't be allowed around children..."
==
The "everyone gets paid too much" (except me) and "money is wasted on the wrong people" (presumably because there are lots of organizational experts out there) rants are common whenever this topic comes up. The posted quoted here took a different tack. Persons with secret and inside knowledge are a boon to our society, if they stand up and face these situations. The brave ones who believe in American due process make appointments with those they deem incompetent, talk to them about their concerns, then, in dangerous situations, file written complaints with their real name and swear to testify in court about their secret knowledge. This is how one protects society from an identified peril to children. Keyboard cowards don't count.
Godot (anonymous) says…
At a time when the school board and teachers are at odds over budget shortfalls and pay scales, the president foreshadows the next of his campaign promises to be implemented: lengthening the school day, and shortening the summer break.
Will teachers be willing to add extra teaching hours for the same pay? If not, where will the school district get the money to implement the president's vision of adding 300 hours of instruction to the school year?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090927/a...
waswade (anonymous) says…
Poor or wishy-washy administration is the primary issue with this district from the superintendent down to building administrators. USD497 is in th midst of new personel in a good-ol-boy network. Raises are just the tip of the iceberg. Security and the rights of students to be safe and respected and taught by individuals who are qulified is the root of the issue. This district is deteriorating and I feel mutiny is in order.
artichokeheart (anonymous) says…
Mutny sounds fun.
kugrad (anonymous) says…
Farva, you are more full of 'stuffing' than a christmas goose.
I'm sure some people earned their masters degrees after having a bachelor degree and going to school evenings and etc., but that is the exception. To go to somewhere like KU, Emporia State, or one of many other colleges and earn a masters is something else entirely. That is what most teachers at the Masters level have done. Don't forget that many teachers have degrees in other subjects and then went into teaching from another career. There are also PT's OT's SLPs and other highly-trained professionals who teach in various capacities in the district. Your generalization is just wrong.
You also have absolutely no idea what you are talking about, as is made clear by your description of the courses teachers take as "touchy-feely." Obviously, you have NO first-hand knowledge regarding the hard work it takes to become a teacher.
Sure, other jobs work hard too, but your comparison to day-care providers for example, just doesn't hold true. They don't give up the kind of time teachers do, it's just a fact. Their occasional inservices are nothing by comparison to the hours and types of work teachers are doing.
You just have a low opinion of teaching as a profession, a low opinion that is informed only by ingnorance. You simply don't know what you are talking about. Your reliance on straw men such as teachers feeling "entitled" shows you really don't have a solid argument. BTW, you DID say teaching was easy - the implication was unmistakable.
If a business person negotiates a contract, then wants that contract to be honored, are they acting out of a sense of 'entitlement?" If an employer agrees to raises based on years of service and then balks when it is time to pay up, are the complaints of the workers because they feel 'entitled?"
Obviously not. No, those who have a negative attitude toward teachers like to single teachers out as though they are a special group who should not have their contracts honored like everyone else.
Finally, your argument that there are plenty of public jobs that are as hard as or harder than teaching has no credibility because you seem to have no concept of how difficult teaching is, thus you can't make a decent comparison. What other job entrusts you with the lives of a roomful of children, their health and well-being, their education for God's sake? What other jobs do people with a Master's degree start at such a low salary and then expect to stay there for so long?
In what other jobs will someone with so much education take an entry level position while supporting a family of 4 and earn so little that they qualify for free and reduced lunch income guidelines for over 10 years?
Teachers are undervalued and underpaid. You are entitlted to your opinions, but you would do well to learn more about the topic before repeating canards and sophisms that simply are not true.
Godot (anonymous) says…
I do see a sense of "I deserve it," in the teachers' anger. They are probably right. But most of us think we "deserve" to be paid more. What must frustrate the teachers is that they are powerless, in a way. No matter how well they perform, no matter how much they excel, they are trapped in a government/union system that equalizes all teachers, within certain norms, makes them conform to a measurable scale like tenure and education, regardless of performance. The system is so excrutiatingly fair, it has become the epitome of injustice.
A teacher is not allowed to negotiate his or her contract individually with the boss. Who is the boss, anyway? Is it the principal, the superintendant, the school board, the taxpayers, the city, the county, the legislature, the governor, the congress, the President?
Teachers cannot plead their cases to demonstrate that they, personally, have gone over and above the required duties and deserve a raise. They must, instead, appeal to another layer of bureaucracy, the union, to negotiate not for them, individually, but for the group. And they have to pay dues for this so-called service.
No wonder the teachers are hostile; they (the younger ones, in partcular) are victims of a system they did not create, but which holds them captive.
brujablanco (anonymous) says…
artichokeheart (Anonymous) says…
Mutny sounds fun.
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Is that anything like chutney? I love chutney.
Today (anonymous) says…
As a teacher, I don't want to be greedy. I clearly understand that I have an easy job, such as, let's say babysitting.
Okay, all I want to make is $5 and hour per child. (That is what my neighbor pays her babysitter.) So, let's say I have 20 kids in my classroom. (Even if my numbers climb to 25-30, which is becoming more and more common, I won't complain, I will just take the salary for 20.) Also, I don't want ANY pay for lunch. I will eat lunch on my own time. Don't pay me any vacation days and PLEASE don't think I will expect any overtime. I will simply get paid for the 175 days the the kids are in school. (I will happily do all conferences, communication with parents, grading, and professional development on my own time at no cost to the district.)
Let's see... that makes my salary $131,250 a year.....hmmmm..........interesting.
weeslicket (anonymous) says…
http://www2.ljworld.com/staff/george_...
re: "Teachers also presented data from the Kansas National Education Association that the Lawrence district "slipped" (the actual document stated "dropped"; just in the interest of non-biased reporting) in the last year in teacher salary and benefits rankings in the state from 88th to 98th.
They also said Lawrence improved from 38th to 35th in principal salaries and benefits,
and held steady at 16th for superintendents."
nod to george diepenbrock.
some of the rest of the data NOT included in the reporting includes:
1) team member 4 (of 7; picking the median value) would earn $1735 more salary @ shawnee heights
team member 4 would earn $9987 more @ shawnee mission
team member 4 would earn $10237 more @ park hills
team member 4 would earn $16999 more @ olathe
2) superintendent doll earns approximately $50,000 more than the governor
(party affiliation of either the superintendent nor the governor notwithstanding)
3) when comparing benefits:
lawrence pays $331.41 (montly single coverage)
shawnee mission pays $501.00 (monthly single)
johnson county pays $1055 (monthly family coverage)
state plan pays $438 (montlhy single) + 50% of family
greenbush (i'll let you investigate) pays 464.00 (single)
kind of makes one wonder how our school board and superintendent manage themselves,
don't it?
Godot (anonymous) says…
Today, you are on to something. Then you will also be willing to pay for your own facility, pay for all your supplies, pay for the children's food, pay for your property, liability and professional insurance (including defense against claims of sexual abuse and corporal punishment), and be willing to buy your own health insurance, make 100 percent contributions to a retirement fund for yourself, and pay nearly 14% of your earnings to the Social Security administration for your social security and medicare contributions, and pay to hire an accountant to file the forms, and also pay for your license with the state, and pay for the cleaning people and cooks. Not to mention the cost of marketing, maintaining a website, and advertising. And, of course, you must be willing to go without pay for holidays and the 12 weeks off during the summer. Cuz that is what a daycare provider has to do.
weeslicket (anonymous) says…
ask me about "the golden handcuffs"
Godot (anonymous) says…
wweslicket, I don't get the bitterness. If you see a better opportunity somewhere else, then pursue it. You are free bird. Fly!
weeslicket (anonymous) says…
@ godot et. al.:
read the last few posts.
and then think a little bit longer.
and a little bit harder.
before you speak.