Archive for Thursday, September 24, 2009

America armed, but guns not necessarily loaded

September 24, 2009


Michael Mayer explains the various types of ammunition for handguns at the Shooters’ Club on Aug. 22 in Harahan, La., a suburb of New Orleans.

Michael Mayer explains the various types of ammunition for handguns at the Shooters’ Club on Aug. 22 in Harahan, La., a suburb of New Orleans.

— Bullet-makers are working around the clock, seven days a week, and still can’t keep up with the nation’s demand for ammunition.

Shooting ranges, gun dealers and bullet manufacturers say they have never seen such shortages. Bullets, especially for handguns, have been scarce for months because gun enthusiasts are stocking up on ammo, in part because they fear President Barack Obama and the Democratic-controlled Congress will pass antigun legislation — even though nothing specific has been proposed and the president last month signed a law allowing people to carry loaded guns in national parks.

Gun sales spiked when it became clear Obama would be elected a year ago and purchases continued to rise in his first few months of office. The FBI’s National Instant Criminal Background Check System reported that 6.1 million background checks for gun sales were issued from January to May, an increase of 25.6 percent from the same period the year before.

“That is going to cause an upswing in ammunition sales,” said Larry Keane, senior vice president of the National Shooting Sports Foundation, a trade association representing about 5,000 members. “Without bullets a gun is just a paper weight.”

The shortage for sportsmen is different than the scarcity of ammo for some police forces earlier this year, a dearth fueled by an increase in ammo use by the military in Iraq and Afghanistan.

“We are working overtime and still can’t keep up with the demand,” said Al Russo, spokesman for North Carolina-based Remington Arms Company, which makes bullets for rifles, handguns and shotguns. “We’ve had to add a fourth shift and go 24-7. It’s a phenomenon that I have not seen before in my 30 years in the business.”

Americans usually buy about 7 billion rounds of ammunition a year, according to the National Rifle Association. In the past year, that figure has jumped to about 9 billion rounds, said NRA spokeswoman Vickie Cieplak.

Jason Gregory, who manages Gretna Gun Works just outside of New Orleans, has been building his personal supply of ammunition for months. His goal is to have at least 1,000 rounds for each of his 25 weapons.

“I call it the Obama effect,” said Gregory, 37, of Terrytown, La. “It always happens when the Democrats get in office. It happened with Clinton and Obama is even stronger for gun control. Ammunition will be the first step, so I’m stocking up while I can.”

So far, the new administration nor Congress has not been markedly antigun. Obama has said he respects Second Amendment rights, but favors “common sense” on gun laws. Still, worries about what could happen persist.

At Barnwood Arms in Ripon, Calif., sales manager Dallas Jett said some of the shortages have leveled off, but 45-caliber rounds are still hard to find.

“We’ve been in business for 32 years and I’ve been here for 10 and we’ve never seen anything like it,” Jett said. “Coming out of Christmas everything started to dry up and it was that way all through the spring and summer.

Nationwide, distributors are scrambling to fill orders from retailers.

“We used to be able to order 50 or 60 cases and get them in three or four days easy, it was never an issue,” said Vic Grechniw of Florida Ammo Traders, a distributor in Tampa, Fla. “Now you are really lucky if you can get one case a month. It just isn’t there because the demand is way up.”

A case contains 500 or 1,000 bullets.

At Jefferson Gun Outlet and Range in Metairie just west of New Orleans, owner Mike Mayer is worried individuals are going to start buying by the case.

“If someone wants to shoot on the weekend, you have to worry about having the ammunition for them. And I know some people aren’t buying to use it at the range, they’re taking it home and hoarding it.”

With demand, prices have also risen.

“Used to be gold, but now lead is the most expensive metal,” said Donald Richards, 37, who was stocking up at the Jefferson store. “And worth every penny.”


just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 8 years, 6 months ago

I guess if your preferred candidates aren't capable of getting themselves elected, the next best alternative is to buy lots of guns and ammo to save yourselves from the coming menace of the Brown people (led by that Kenyan guy.)

Flap Doodle 8 years, 6 months ago

The ammo situation is actually starting to ease up a bit. 9mm JHP remains elusive.

jonas_opines 8 years, 6 months ago

The sad thing is that even after Nothing Happens, they'll still say it was the pressure of the Republicans in Congress that somehow kept it from happening.

And sorry, STRS, after several of the commenting sections yesterday, I think Bozo's race-pull is perfectly understandable (even if unnecessary). Why don't you find Marion's blog about the killing of white people in Africa, read the comments, and get back to us.

jonas_opines 8 years, 6 months ago

And frankly, it's hard to see the stupid, baseless hysteria increase every day and not eventually begin to suspect that hey, maybe some part of the reason for it has something to do with just that.

mickeyrat 8 years, 6 months ago

It's a puzzling phenomenon. I can understand target-shooters and hunters stocking up (though I think their fears are unfounded), but I wonder how the race/class/ethnic/blackhelicopter/civilwar apocalypse narrative manages to posit a realistic "enemy." Very strange.

imastinker 8 years, 5 months ago

I've been stocking up only because it's getting hard to find stuff. I spent three months looking for a specific shotgun shell that I couldn't find and when I found it I bought a lot of it.

gphawk89 8 years, 5 months ago

Yep, haven't seen any 9mm JHP on the shelves for quite a while. FMJ can be found if you happen to walk into the store right after they put some out on the shelves, but even that disappears pretty quickly.

SettingTheRecordStraight 8 years, 5 months ago

Sorry jonas, but I'm simply not familiar with "several of the commenting sections yesterday" to which you make reference. Neither am I familiar with Marion's comment(s) about white Africans.

Guys like bozo and Leonard Pitts want - in fact, need - to believe in a racist society in order to make sense in the overwhelming pushback they see to liberal policies. To them, there's simply no other explanation to society's rejection of government growth.

Joe Hyde 8 years, 5 months ago

Sure is getting tougher lately for a person to be just an ordinary decent hunter, and/or a target shooting enthusiast. I suppose the combination of war mixed with reactionary political views and domestic fears make it that way.

What's worrisome to me is the amount of threatened violence we see on TV. It's beyond ridiculous. Don't believe it? Okay, just watch the clips of almost any dramatic series; every five seconds you're hit by a flash image of someone with a handgun drawing down on somebody.

So many scenes of such high emotion create, I think, a stereotype that works directly against the main objective of ordinary sport hunters. Makes it increasingly harder to get permission from rural landowners to gun hunt on their property.

jonas_opines 8 years, 5 months ago

"Sorry jonas, but I'm simply not familiar with “several of the commenting sections yesterday” to which you make reference. Neither am I familiar with Marion's comment(s) about white Africans."

Well then, why don't you actually look for them rather than just admitting your ignorance for all to see? I think if you Had looked, rather than just not caring because it's not convenient for you, then you would have seen that Bozo's race card in this instance comes from several very specific applications of race descriptives provided on that thread.

"Guys like bozo and Leonard Pitts want - in fact, need - to believe in a racist society in order to make sense in the overwhelming pushback they see to liberal policies. To them, there's simply no other explanation to society's rejection of government growth."

That's bunk. There's always pushback (well, when it comes from Democrats at least), but the level of hysteria, over the absence of legitimate proof, suggests that pushback only accounts for so much. I'm not suggesting that All of the people in opposition are swayed by race, nor that all of it has to do with race, but you're just flat blinding yourself, covering your eyes with the easy excuse of Liberal BS, rather than admitting the likely potentiality that there Is some aspect of race in this.

Some in the south call for Secession, for pretty much the first time since the Civil War. It's hard to view that as coincidence.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 8 years, 5 months ago

While there are certainly plenty of overt racists among the conservative ranks, most are not.

I think a better explanation is that most conservatives, especially seniors, define the US as a "White Nation." They're now confronted by a country in which nearly 1/3 of the country's population is not of primarily European descent and has a president whose father was African. With the current disasters that are largely a result of the policies and actions of the leaders they have voted for in the past, it's no wonder they are freaking out (under the direction of Glenn Beck.)

RogueThrill 8 years, 5 months ago

It’s good to see the citizens have the means to resist. The second amendment in action.


I actually bought 4 spam cans of 7.62x54r last summer. All made in Czechoslovakia to put into my socialist 91/30 so I can shoot all the crazy people who think they will be revolting against the government.

Who's the patriot now?

gogoplata 8 years, 5 months ago

I actually bought 4 spam cans of 7.62x54r last summer. All made in Czechoslovakia to put into my socialist 91/30 so I can shoot all the crazy people who think they will be revolting against the government.

Check out this video of a guy using a Mosin Nagant hitting a target at 1000 yds. If you look close you can see the bullets disruption of the air as it speeds toward the target.

remember_username 8 years, 5 months ago

Hmm...I was aware "Browning" made some nice firearms but I didn't know they made ammunition.

Ba dum bump

gogoplata 8 years, 5 months ago

For those interested improving your skills with a rifle checkout the Appleseed project. Their goal is to turn citizens into riflemen. That means hitting a 20" target at 500 yards every time you pull the trigger. Most of the shooting is at 25 yds with a scaled down 1" target. Go out and try it. See if you can go 10 for 10 on a 1" square at 25 yds. It is not as easy as it sounds.

remember_username 8 years, 5 months ago

gogoplata - same guy shooting a M1 on the same range is a better video - less heat waves in the video and a slow motion shot - plus it's a M1 Garand!

Flap Doodle 8 years, 5 months ago

I'm not sure I could hit Nebraska from 1000 yards with a 91/30.

gogoplata 8 years, 5 months ago

That is a good video with the Garand. I want one. $600 through the CMP.

remember_username 8 years, 5 months ago

I wonder if ammunition manufacturers are shipping more outside the US. There's some serious non-military violence going on in the world today.

It almost seems like the hording is the problem. Are gun owners shooting 2 billion more rounds a year now? Plus, if you're that much into shooting and you're not reloading your own, you're just throwing your money away.

beatrice 8 years, 5 months ago

Paying too much for ammo? Blame the NRA for flaming the fires of fear among its membership. The reality is that Obama isn't going to do anything about guns because it would be politically foolish, even if he thinks it is the right thing to do. He hasn't even reinstated the ban on assault weapons, which could have been very easy to do.

You gunnies are so bitter.

remember_username 8 years, 5 months ago

I'm a big time fan of the CMP! (But don't tell anybody, it'll confuse those who think I'm a left-wing liberal nutcase.)

Flap Doodle 8 years, 5 months ago

Sportsman's Guide also has pretty good prices these days.

gogoplata 8 years, 5 months ago

You can pick up a Nagant for around $100 - $130. There are always a lot of them for sale at gun shows.

SettingTheRecordStraight 8 years, 5 months ago


You're free to dwell up on the notion of endemic racism. The rest of us are getting on with life.

tbaker 8 years, 5 months ago

Baseless hysteria?

Baseless? How about unwarranted. Splitting hairs maybe, but words mean things, especially loaded and divisive words. Advancing the discussion requires people on both sides of an issue to come closer together. Loaded words make that more difficult.

Hysteria? I recall the days leading up to the assault weapons ban - which truly was a baseless piece of legislation. Anything with a detachable magazine, and/or folding stock, and/or a bayonet lug, and/or flash suppressor was flying off the shelves. AR-15 manufacturers were working 24/7.

This was due to the "new" relative value calculation which was created in the firearms marketplace where "pre-ban" guns now suddenly had a mystique and were considered more valuable than post-ban guns, even thought there was no substantive difference aside from a missing bayonet lug.

Back then people stopped reading right after the word "ban" and got it in their heads the government was about to ban guns, so they rushed out to buy one. Today there are a number of anti-gun pieces of legislation currently pending in congress by the same folks who rush huge spending bills through the process in a matter of hours without reading them.

I don't think it's fair to characterize today's booming gun and ammo business as some form of hysteria given the sort of behavior we've seen out out of congress recently. Given that, I think it's a quite sane reaction for folks to be a little worried the same techniques might be used to pass new anti-gun legislation. Their "hording" is therefore well justified.

gogoplata 8 years, 5 months ago

Tom, type in mini 30 magazines on google. You can usually find links to discussion boards that are helpful. I was able to fix my sks by reading about similar malfunctions people discussed online.

drake 8 years, 5 months ago

Don't waste your time on fiding a 30 round clip for your mini 30 Tom. There are no aftermarket clips that will work and Ruger does not make anything larger than 20. I've been down that road and spent serious $$ all for not. Mini 14's work pretty well but not mini 30's.

tbaker 8 years, 5 months ago

Didn't all the major gun manufactures vote Mr. Obama as their salesman of the year?

Think of all the good the President has done for the guns and ammo business. He saved them from the ravages of the recession.

Instead of using a Caterpillar plant which was laying off workers as a back-drop to sell his stimulus plans, he should point to all the jobs his policies have "saved or created" standing on the AR-15 assembly line at Colt.

sfjayhawk 8 years, 5 months ago

Invictanus says..."with the stock market tanking and insurance companies going bankrupt" -

Must be hard to read the WSJ while wearing that pillow case.

FYI - Dow is very near a 12 month high and the insurance industry is solvent.

jonas_opines 8 years, 5 months ago

STRS: "You're free to dwell up on the notion of endemic racism. The rest of us are getting on with life."

Yes, apparently by acting like idiots running out to stock up on overpriced ammunition due to imaginary threats thrown at them by manipulators who get paid best when we're divided as a country. Congratulations on being so evolved.

Sorry, evolution is off the table. Congratulations on being so Intelligently Designed.

Flap Doodle 8 years, 5 months ago

Somebody's being Mr. Grumpypants & needs a nap.

jonas_opines 8 years, 5 months ago

Grumpy? Nah, I feel pretty cheerful. I'm still enjoying not being in constant pain. I am feeling a little. . . combative today, I'll admit.

/fine, fine, very combative

SettingTheRecordStraight 8 years, 5 months ago


Let's assume for a moment that you're correct and that some gun buyers are "acting like idiots" who are worried about "imaginary threats."

Still, NONE of this has to do with race. Why are you so desperate to make this issue into something it's not?

jonas_opines 8 years, 5 months ago

Desparate? This is the first time since he was put forth as a candidate that I've even Mentioned race in connection to Obama. (No, that's not correct, I think that I said something like "As the first black president, he'd likely be impeached" on one of the many threads about him addressing (read: brainwashing) our children.)

The simple fact is this: you could say Anything about Obama and a certain demographic would lap it up like kittens with cream, believing it absolutely. The examples already passed (Marxist, Brainwashing kids, Hates white people, hates guns, hates capitalism, brown-shirts, jack-boot thugs etc. etc. etc.) show this rather definitely. It's not just this incident at all, the same as the context for the quote by Bozo that you fell on like a starving dog was not based solely on this article but rather a Very Racist Thread concerning Obama and Africa (which I gather you still haven't even looked at?)

In the end, the only way to look at it is that it has Something (not sure how much) with what he is. The same way that the knee-jerk, practically Pavlovian reaction to Bush by lefties obviously had a great deal to do, from the start, which what he was: another Bush, scion to a line with some questionable history, priveleged man who was a priveleged boy who was bailed out on a number of occasions by his family connections.

That silver spoon background, and the appearance of him as a poor-spoken cowboy type had Something (not sure how much) to do with the automatic negative reaction to anything he did, which just got worse over time (well, minus Sept 11th to April 2003). Because of what he was, people would believe Anything about Bush.

Partially his background, partially What He Was. This is no different.

Flap Doodle 8 years, 5 months ago

“Without bullets a gun is just a paper weight.” Actually, if you have the correct bayonet, an unloaded 91/30 is still a formidable weapon.

1029 8 years, 5 months ago

In my opinion, anyone who thinks this shortage has more to do with fear of some sort of gun control legislation than it has to do with racism is simply in denial or just too undereducated to ever begin to understand that racism doesn't always have to be blatant and obvious. (I say undereducated and not uneducated because it usually isn't their fault they didn't have the same educational opportunities and/or intellectual capacity as others. Right-wing gun nuts aren't necessarily stupid people, which is sometimes hard for the more intelligent, more rational people on the left to recognize.)

However, it is extremely important to understand that most of these people freaking out and buying ammo aren't even aware of the racism that lies deep within their subconscious. That's why it will only rile up the gun nuts even further if you flat-out accuse them of being racist. They'll most likely start screaming and crying about how they have black friends (I even saw one poster the other day attempt to defend his racist viewpoints by saying he was engaged to a black woman and therefore couldn't possibly possess this unconscious racism, which made me laugh a little), how liberals like to scream "racism" even though it doesn't really exist, and/or how they hate Obama because he's a far-left socialist and not because they don't trust him because of the color of his skin.

Sure, these gun-nut-types will have families and pass their views onto their children, and their children will buy into it because they look up to their parents, but I think this is just part of the larger conservative ideology that will inevitably die with the passing of time. There's so much more communication, access to information, and awareness of conditions in unfamiliar

1029 8 years, 5 months ago

whoops, accidentally hit submit....

ah, you get the picture... I could go on forever about this facinating topic.

tbaker 8 years, 5 months ago

1029 says: is extremely important to understand that most of these people freaking out and buying ammo aren't even aware of the racism that lies deep within their subconscious.


There must be a new definition of racism I am not aware of. The last I checked, a charge of racism could only be successfully asserted based on overt acts / behavior from someone. How can you call a person a racist based on something they themselves aren't even aware of?

People are freaking out and buying guns and ammo because the congress is passing huge bills in a matter of hours without reading them, and a bunch of anti-gun legislation is now pending in congress. Their fears are at the very least somewhat justified given the recent behavior of congress.

sfjayhawk 8 years, 5 months ago

Invictanus, can you even aim your gun with that hood on?

Jim Phillips 8 years, 5 months ago

Well, well! Our reporter is certainly on top of things. Waiting until the worst of the ammo hoarding is over to write the article. Bass Pro Shop in Olathe has been getting a regular supply of 9mm JHP for a few months now. About the only pistol load thad still seems to be elusive is the .380.

1029---In my opinion, you haven't a clue as to what you are talking about other than the propaganda you read in the antigun academia. Their motto; 'Let's not confuse the issue with the truth!'

bea--- The NRA has nothing to do with the price of ammo. It's all about supply side economics. Yes, there was a major over-reaction to the elections by many gunowners, especially by the extreme right, but the bullet makers raised prices because they knew people would pay. Much of that hoarded ammo is starting to surface at gunshows at an inflated price.

gogoplata 8 years, 5 months ago

You'd think that being a "gun nut" was a bad thing by some of these posts.

tbaker 8 years, 5 months ago

Do tell 1029. Please, proceed. Your opinion fascinates me.

People should pay attention to 1029’s 3:37 post. It is very instructive. It provides a splendid example of just how fractured our culture has become in that the American vernacular has now deteriorated to the point where we can decide for ourselves the meaning of words.

With no small measure of smug self-assurance, we can proceed to accuse others of racism based on nothing more than their apparent failure to live-up to our own individual definition of the term, based on our personal certainty in the benevolent moral superiority of our custom-made opinion.

By substituting the accepted definition of a word with one that better suits our personal temperaments, one can now accuse people who’ve denounced racism their entire lives, who have said or done nothing racist, but if I happen to be at the counter in Cabela’s buying my son his first deer rifle, 1029 can tell racism still lurks somewhere in my subconscious. Amazing.

puddleglum 8 years, 5 months ago

pawn shop on 6th has .380 ammo yesterday

SettingTheRecordStraight 8 years, 5 months ago

"...more intelligent, more rational people on the left ..." -1029

The arrogance and elitism of the Far Left is amazaing.

Please, 1029, continue to be a spokesperson for your causes. You'll do nothing but help people like me.

RogueThrill 8 years, 5 months ago


Unfortunately I don't have a P/U. I wish I did and will probably pick one up at the gun show in Topeka in October (although I would just rather get a Finnish model). It's the scope that kills me. I don't want to sully myself with a replica and the originals are expensive as all hell. Gotta love 7.62x54r though. Cheap and huge. Packs a punch on both ends.

So, come October it's either a Finnish Mosin or a WASR-10, or an SVD. I want the maximum amount of irony should a bunch of freepers decide they want to become traitors. The WASR is unlikely given how cheap surplus eblock ammo is, but we'll see.

RogueThrill 8 years, 5 months ago

Also, if you are a liberal have never been to a gun show you should go. The beef jerky is awesome and it's like going to a really scary and ultra-polite freak show. And you can buy some really ridiculous bumper stickers.

It's good people watching.

remember_username 8 years, 5 months ago

Never have I seen a "gun nut", but I've seen quite a few "gun screws". Oddly, with so many guns having "bolts" you'd expect to see plenty of "gun nuts".

beatrice 8 years, 5 months ago

Guardian, the NRA might not have anything directly to do with the price of ammo, but they have added to the fear factor that drove the demand, thus the prices upward. For some reason we occassionally receive NRA mailings at the house -- maybe a sick joke of being added to a mailing list by a friend, I don't know. Things I've seen from the NRA has a great deal to do with fear of the big bad liberals. They try to scare people into thinking that Obama and his "Hollywood-elite friends" are just moments away from being outside YOUR door ready to come in and take away YOUR guns! So the NRA doesn't set the going rates for a bullet, but they do help establish the fear among their members that drives the demand for bullets upwards. That is what I meant earlier, and it is exactly what I would anticipate coming from one of the largest lobbying firms in Washington.

tbaker: "How can you call a person a racist based on something they themselves aren't even aware of?"

First off, I can totally appreciate your frustration of feeling accused of such an ugly thing like racism just because you don't agree with someone's politics. I mean, I sure don't agree with Alan Keyes or Michael Steele, and I too would hate for that opposition to be thought of as just being about race. So I'm with you there.

That said, I don't believe 1029 called anyone specifically a racist, but rather said that racism as it exists in America today played a part in the unneccessary run on bullets. Watch some of the youtube videos of racists who appeared at McCain and Palin rallies. Far from the majority, certainly, but they were there. If you have these folks making a run on bullets out of there racist-driven fears, others then hear there is a run on bullets -- and suddenly there is a widespread run on bullets. Most who then bought a little extra "just in case" aren't doing so because they specifically are racist, just that racism played a part.

I hope that makes some sense. I'm trying to be as careful with my words here as possible because I don't want to accuse someone of something when they have never demonstrated such habits. I also don't want to just ignore this subject. If what I just wrote to you doesn't make any sense at all, at least know that I am not in any way calling you or anyone else a racist just because they might oppose the political views of someone of another race. Anyone who would would be behaving stupidly.

mickeyrat 8 years, 5 months ago

STRS, do try re-reading the first paragraph of 1029's 3:37 post. You might find an entirely different meaning in the text as written. 1029 was not saying that the left is more intelligent or rational.

There is arrogance and elitism on both sides. Critical reading skills, well... others can judge.

beatrice 8 years, 5 months ago

One more thing -- go back and read more of 1029's posts. Literally dripping with sarcasm, and they almost always catch someone off guard -- particularly when he is pulling the legs of us gullible liberals on the left.

Flap Doodle 8 years, 5 months ago

autie, there are 17 ways to kill a man with a muffin. 18 if it is a banana-nut muffin.

flicker 8 years, 5 months ago

I'm surprised how many people on here think the basis for the shortage of ammo is based on racism. What the H**??? I guess Bozo did start it off with that though.

Plain and simple it has to do with having a Democrat in the Presidents seat and the hype (legit or not) that Congress will pass strict gun control laws - that's all it is Bozo. No race card needed here.

flicker 8 years, 5 months ago

Addition to above - I should have said the gun toters believe it has to do with having "the most liberal Democratic President this country has seen in quite some time" - that's what's scaring the gun toting owners. I'm actually for the elimination of handguns altogether but I know a lot of the folks who do own them and race has never even been brought up as a slightest reason. These people are convinced that Congress will pass laws effecting them and they don't want to be short on their beloved ammo. That's the basis of what this issue is all about!

beatrice 8 years, 5 months ago

flicker, if it were as plain and simple as just having a Democrat in office, then why wasn't there a similar run on and rise in the cost of bullets when Clinton was President? Are you saying that there isn't any racist reaction against Obama out there that may, just may, have helped fuel this rise in prices?

Certainly there is some -- not all, of course -- but there is some racism against Obama. Wouldn't you agree, or do you believe racism has somehow miraculously vanished from our country? If just the racists began stockpiling ammo, couldn't that have an effect, which then could be magnified when others start buying bullets too? Then, the news gets ahold of it --in this case rather late in the game -- and the prices go even higher.

To say it is only because people are afraid of new laws ignores history of our country. However, I actually hope you are right. I don't believe you are, but I hope you are. Unfortunately, just a brief google or youtube search will unearth a ton of racist material out there -- and it isn't all coming just from one side.

Flap Doodle 8 years, 5 months ago

bea, people remembering the Clinton-era 10 year ban on new standard-capacity magazines probably contributed to the general anxiety level. Magazines have been hard to find as well as ammo.

flicker 8 years, 5 months ago

bea, the overuse of the race card (like in this case) is getting extremely old and only hurts the progression of any causes you would like to see in the inequalities that do still exist in this country. There are times the race card should be played but this is not one of them. By using at often as some do, you only use credibility hurting the effect it can have when there truly is injustice at work.

Also, Bill Clinton did not portray himself near the man of “Change” that B.O. has therefore no need to fear that the ammo would go away.

jonas_opines 8 years, 5 months ago

Flicker, lost in the flood somewhere, I mentioned that the original race card here was probably a direct reference to some of the comments from yesterday, on this blog.

Read for yourself. I still don't think Bozo's post was necessary, and I agree that the race card has been pulled far too often, in any circumstance of criticism against Obama (kind of like "hates America" from the last admin.), but the language used is close enough to the language thrown around yesterday for it to be close to a direct reference.

tomatogrower 8 years, 5 months ago

Anti-gun people are mad at President Obama, pro gun people are mad at him. He must be doing something right. At least the companies who make bullets are grinning. I'll bet they voted for President Obama, and now they are laughing all the way to the bank. It's part of the stimulus plan and all the paranoid nut cases fell for it. What a laugh.

flicker 8 years, 5 months ago

Jonas- I do agree about bozo's post. He/She just likes to get the crowd riled up. Again, he loses credibility for doing so. I should have known.

Richard Heckler 8 years, 5 months ago

"The Pentagon routinely justifies weapons sales as “promoting regional stability,” but many of these arms end up in the world’s war zones. In 2006 and 2007, the five biggest recipients of U.S. weapons were Pakistan ($3.5 billion), Iraq ($2.2 billion), Israel ($2.2 billion), Afghanistan ($1.9 billion) and Colombia ($580 million) — all countries where conflict rages.

In Pakistan, the fighting ranges from communal violence and state repression, to attacks against India, to deadly battles between Pakistani military and al Qaeda forces in the northwest provinces. Israel has used U.S.-supplied weapons in the West Bank and Gaza, as well as in the 2006 invasion of Lebanon. Colombia uses U.S. weaponry to fight the drug war. Of the 27 major conflicts during 2006 and 2007, 19 of them involved U.S-supplied weapons.

While full data is not yet available for 2008, the United States continues to flood warzones with more destabilizing weapons. In 2008, the Pentagon brokered more than $12.5 billion in possible foreign military sales to Iraq, including guns, ammunition, tanks and attack helicopters. "

Richard Heckler 8 years, 5 months ago

"Ironically, the Bush family's century of involvement in oil, armaments and global intrigue has never been at the center of the national debate since the Bushes starting running for president in 1980.

The reason? Insufficient public knowledge. The only Bush biography published before George H.W. Bush won election in 1988 was a puff job written by a former press secretary, and the biographies of George W. Bush in 2000 barely mentioned his forefathers. Millions of Republicans who have loyally voted for Bushes in three presidential elections simply have no idea. Here are circumstances and biases especially worth noting.

The Bushes and the military-industrial complex: George H. Walker and Samuel Prescott Bush were the dynasty's founding fathers during the years of and after World War I. Walker, a St. Louis financier, made his mark in corporate reorganizations and war contracts. By 1919, he was enlisted by railroad heir W. Averell Harriman to be president of Wall Street-based WA Harriman, which invested in oil, shipping, aviation and manganese, partly in Russia and Germany, during the 1920s. Sam Bush, the current president's other great-grandfather, ran an Ohio company, Buckeye Steel Castings, that produced armaments. In 1917, he went to Washington to head the small arms, ammunition and ordnance section of the federal War Industries Board. Both men were present at the emergence of what became the U.S. military-industrial complex.

Prescott Bush, the Connecticut senator and grandfather of the current president, had some German corporate ties at the outbreak of World War II, but the better yardstick of his connections was his directorships of companies involved in U.S. war production. Dresser Industries, for example, produced the incendiary bombs dropped on Tokyo and made gaseous diffusion pumps for the atomic bomb project. George H.W. Bush later worked for Dresser's oil-services businesses. Then, as CIA director, vice president and president, one of his priorities was the U.S. weapons trade and secret arms deals with Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia and the moujahedeen in Afghanistan.

In his 1961 farewell address, President Dwight D. Eisenhower warned about how "we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex." That complex's recent mega-leap to power came under George H.W. Bush and even more under George W. Bush — with the post-9/11 expansion of the military and creation of the Department of Homeland Security. But armaments and arms deals seem to have been in the Bushes' blood for nearly a century. "

Flap Doodle 8 years, 5 months ago

merrill copy/pasted that same rant on multiple threads this morning. SSDD.

kansasmutt 8 years, 5 months ago

I have had no troubles getting any ammo in the last month. They are getting it out fast now. 13 states had bills waiting to go through, but May 1st they all expired and ,manufactures are getting caught up now. 45 ACP is the only one that is a bit tough to get. I buy in Eudora at the shop downtown. Reloading supplies and ammo both. They can order it they dont have it,and the price is right. You can also be at cabelas at opening each morning to get some as well. Those mail order places suck and they limit you and shipping is wayyyyy high.

tbaker 8 years, 5 months ago


Thank you for the thoughtful, well reasoned, respectful and lucid reply to a very thorny topic. You advance the discourse with your civility. Bravo.

I am afraid I must disagree with you. 1029, called a lot of people racists we they said:

1029: However, it is extremely important to understand that most of these people freaking out and buying ammo aren't even aware of the racism that lies deep within their subconscious

Perhaps we can quibble over the nature of this characterization being made. Perhaps we could say 1029 "inferred" or "implied" racism, but never actually called anyone a racist, but many others will not make such a refined distinction. Had 1029 demonstrated the same intelligence you did by taking the care you took with your words, we wouldn't be discussing this.

tbaker 8 years, 5 months ago

Shooters: Does anyone know of a rifle range that goes to 600 yards within 100 miles of Lawrence? There are a couple matches I participate in each year that require that distance. Its asking a lot. Such ranges are rare I know.

I'm somewhat new to the area. Is there a gun club with a rifle/pistol range near by? Whats the best place to do some trap/skeet shooting? Suggestions?

beatrice 8 years, 5 months ago

blueharley: "I'm not racist, I'm cheap."

Funny. Well said.

tbaker, I believe there is some underlying racism in some of the push against anything Obama by some of the people out there - and we can argue what is and what isn't - but I agree with you that it doesn't transcend to "most of the people." Not even close. Maybe it does to those who are "freaking out," as 1029 writes it, but I don't think most people who contributed to the run on ammo qualify as "freaking out" over the apparent shortage. Heck, they are most likely folks like blueharley and are just cheap. In the end, doesn't that really account for most of us and our buying habits? If we weren't a cheap people, Wal-mart and Cost-Co wouldn't be as popular as they are.

I sure hope being cheap isn't racist. If so, count me in the mix.

tomatogrower 8 years, 5 months ago

Why is the NRA afraid of President Obama? He hasn't enacted any gun control, and he allowed guns to be carried in National Parks. Let's start looking at what is really happening, not the lies people pass around.

beatrice 8 years, 5 months ago

I have no doubt that Marion is really, really bothered by Obama's African heritage and his middle name.

“22 August 2009 at 12:11 a.m. Marion (Marion Lynn) says…

I have some interest in preservation of what might be called the “White culture”.”

Flap Doodle 8 years, 5 months ago

The fact that Dear Leader came up through the incredibly corrupt Chicago political machine, which has forbidden private ownership of handguns in Chicago, makes some people doubt the purity of his hopenchange. He was the go-along-get-along guy that never seems to have challenged the machine. He just voted "present" and let the good times roll for Daley & Blago & the other fat cats.

kansasmutt 8 years, 5 months ago

tbaker ) Cedar Hill Gun Club out south of Lawrence on 1055 road towards Vinland.

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