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Archive for Friday, September 18, 2009

Netanyahu to world: Back Israeli self-defense

September 18, 2009

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— Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu on Thursday rejected the U.N. report alleging Israeli war crimes in its Gaza war this year, warning world leaders that they and their anti-terror forces could be targets for similar charges.

Netanyahu said Israeli forces were exercising their right to self-defense after rocket attacks by Palestinian Hamas militants against southern Israeli towns before and since Israel’s 2005 withdrawal from the Gaza Strip.

“They tell us to pull out, and after we do, and we exercise our right to self defense, they call us war criminals? I don’t accept that,” Netanyahu told Israel TV, speaking on the occasion of the Jewish New Year holiday, which begins today.

The report of the U.N. commission, headed by South African justice Richard Goldstone, faulted Israel for civilian deaths in Gaza, saying it used disproportionate force in the offensive. About 1,400 Palestinians were killed during the three-week conflict. Israel charged that Gaza’s Islamic Hamas rulers were to blame, saying they placed rocket launchers and forces in crowded neighborhoods.

The U.N. report also called Hamas’ firing of rockets at Israeli civilians a war crime.

Comments

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 5 years, 3 months ago

Netanyahu is a terrorist war criminal. There is no room for debate on that.

Flap Doodle 5 years, 3 months ago

How did I know that bozo would be the first poster on this thread?

monkeyhawk 5 years, 3 months ago

boozo hates democracy (and anyone with a backbone). There's no debate about that.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 5 years, 3 months ago

As I said, there is no debate about whether Netanyahu is terrorist war criminal, but as usual, there's no shortage of folks willing to express their love of terrorism and war crimes.

KansasVoter 5 years, 3 months ago

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus (Anonymous) says… "Netanyahu is a terrorist war criminal. There is no room for debate on that."

Why is that Israel is allowed to commit war crimes with impunity? If any other country in the world behaved the way that Israel does America would have bombed them to the stone age decades ago. America needs to cut all military aid to Israel and let them stand on their own.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 5 years, 3 months ago

"Well, the left does not consider what the terrorist do as a 'crime',"

Well, no, the left has consistently considered terrorists to be criminals, and if they had been dealt with as such in 2001, Osama would likely have been captured and imprisoned long ago.

"Mr. Bozo doesn't call his Palestenian buddies terrorists."

Hamas is a terrorist organization, which like the terrorist Netanyahu in Israel, has been elected to govern Gaza. Only they don't kill or destroy on anywhere near the scale that Israel does, nor are they funded by US tax dollars.

Flap Doodle 5 years, 3 months ago

"There is no room for debate on that." Translated from bozo-speak: "I have no case to argue, so I'm declaring that I won."

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 5 years, 3 months ago

Yea, with all the oodles of extra cash they have hanging around because of that humanitarian aid for babies, women and old people, they have Israel and its $3B in US aid backed into a corner.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 5 years, 3 months ago

Giving humanitarian aid is not hedging a bet-- it's giving humanitarian aid. Giving Israel $3B is not hedging bets, either. It's the bribe they get paid for being a defacto division of the US military and protecting US imperial interests (while indulging the millennial biblical phantasies of Christian wack-jobs)

KansasVoter 5 years, 3 months ago

Marion (Marion Lynn) says… "What yould you do if your neighbor constantly threanened you"

That's a poor analogy. A better one would be, what would you do if a foreign country seized your home and gave it to another foreigner while forcing you to live in the corner of your backyard? Would you be happy that you still have a corner of your backyard or would you try to force that foreigner out of your home?

Shane Garrett 5 years, 3 months ago

"If everyone is thinking alike, someone isn't thinking." - General George Patton Jr

You all act like borders are something that are God given. Only Saudi arabia established its own borders in the middle east. No, wait. Now (1948) and again in 1968, Israel has established its own borders. And under international law they have a people, a government and defensive borders. Therefore, Israel qualifies, by definition, and by international law as a Nation. They won get over it. A quote I have often heard about politics. The disaster that is awaiting Gaza is found at this site. http://www.ens-newswire.com/ens/sep2009/2009-09-17-01.asp They will all run out of clean water soon if something is not done.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 5 years, 3 months ago

"Ok bozo, you do realize you're making the US out to be some sort of split personality"

Of course we have a split personality. But primarily, it's just a matter of PR.

KansasVoter 5 years, 3 months ago

Wallythewalrus (Anonymous) says… "You all act like borders are something that are God given."

No, it's Israel who thinks that the land that they stole is "god" given. That's their only claim to the land, but since they weren't living there for thousands of years that argument shouldn't hold any water. Israelis are land thieves and war criminals, nothing more.

Shane Garrett 5 years, 3 months ago

Along with The Balfour Declaration, the League of Nations granted the United Kingdom the British Mandate of Palestine after World War I, with responsibility for establishing political, administrative and economic conditions in order to secure the establishment of the Jewish national home and the development of self-governing institutions, and also for safeguarding the civil and religious rights of all the inhabitants of Palestine, irrespective of race and religion. In November 1947 United Nations decided on partition of Palestine into a Jewish state, an Arab state, and a UN-administered Jerusalem. Partition was accepted by Zionist leaders but rejected by Arab leaders leading to the 1947–1948 Civil War in Mandatory Palestine. Israel declared independence on May 14, 1948. No land was ever stolen.
Perhaps Kansas Voter is suggesting that all lands aquired by the United States was Stoled as well. If so perhaps we should all pack up and go home. Again, to the victor belongs the spoils.

remember_username 5 years, 3 months ago

Bozo - "Netanyahu is a terrorist war criminal. There is no room for debate on that." There is considerable debate on the definition of a terrorist, and Netanyahu has not even been charged as a war criminal, so you're sharing your opinion...which can be debated.

Tom - "Why does the UN and this administration and congress always want to go easy on terrorists states and tyrants?" Really, they actually want to? What an odd impression...

Marian - "Israel was created by the United Nations, not the US and Britain as the libs would have you believe and that august body of socialists now does nothing to protect that which it created." - There is a good deal more to the origin of Israel than "created by the UN" and if you want to be technically correct the Jewish Agency for Israel proclaimed independence before the UN partition resolution went into effect.

Borus says - "why are the Palestanians and other radical Arab elements allowed to commit war crimes with impunity?" - Did you read the last sentence of above article?

KansasVoter - "No, it's Israel who thinks that the land that they stole is “god” given. That's their only claim to the land, but since they weren't living there for thousands of years that argument shouldn't hold any water. Israelis are land thieves and war criminals, nothing more." - But there were Jews living in Palestine even before the Zionist movements in the 1880's, quite a few actually.

Shane Garrett 5 years, 3 months ago

Just to add some more acient history: The rule of Israelites in the land of Israel starts with the conquests of Joshua (ca. 1250 BCE). The period from 1000-587 BCE is known as the "Period of the Kings". The most noteworthy kings were King David (1010-970 BCE), who made Jerusalem the Capital of Israel, and his son Solomon (Shlomo, 970-931 BCE), who built the first Temple in Jerusalem as prescribed in the Tanach (Old Testament).

In 587 BCE, Babylonian Nebuchadnezzar's army captured Jerusalem, destroyed the Temple, and exiled the Jews to Babylon (modern day Iraq).

The year 587 BCE marks a turning point in the history of the region. From this year onwards, the region was ruled or controlled by a succession of superpower empires of the time in the following order: Babylonian, Persian, Greek Hellenistic, Roman and Byzantine Empires, Islamic and Christian crusaders, Ottoman Empire, and the British Empire.

Shane Garrett 5 years, 3 months ago

And yes this part I copied and pasted. But is still True enough. In 1917 Great Britain issued the Balfour Declaration for "the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people". In 1922 Britain allocated nearly 80% of Palestine to Transjordan. Thus, Jordan covers the majority of the land of Palestine under British Mandate. Jordan also includes the majority of the Arabs who lived there. In other words, Jordan is the Arab portion of Palestine.

The residents of Palestine are called "Palestinians". Since Palestine includes both modern day Israel and Jordan both Arab and Jewish residents of this area were referred to as "Palestinians".

It was only after the Jews re-inhabited their historic homeland of Judea and Samaria, that the myth of an Arab Palestinian nation was created and marketed worldwide. Jews come from Judea, not Palestinians. There is no language known as Palestinian, or any Palestinian culture distinct from that of all the Arabs in the area. There has never been a land known as Palestine governed by Palestinians. "Palestinians" are Arabs indistinguishable from Arabs throughout the Middle East. The great majority of Arabs in greater Palestine and Israel share the same culture, language and religion.

Shane Garrett 5 years, 3 months ago

Again I just want to say that under International Law, Israel has the right to exist as a nation.

Shane Garrett 5 years, 3 months ago

I would like to say to all those progressive, liberal people whose hearts yearn to see a Palestinian State set up in the West Bank and Gaza, what is the matter with you? Does the world really need yet one more corrupt state of Moslem extremists to misconstrue their own religion, and dishonor the religion and cultural artifacts of others? Do we really need to empower yet another murderous, corrupt, inhumane regime and give it legitimacy? To what end? And to whose benefit?

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 5 years, 3 months ago

"There is considerable debate on the definition of a terrorist,"

OK, give me your definition (or anyone else's) and tell me how it doesn't apply to Netanyahu.

"and Netanyahu has not even been charged as a war criminal,"

So a murderer is not a murderer unless they've been charged? If so, does that mean the person(s) murdered isn't (aren't) really dead?

KansasVoter 5 years, 3 months ago

Marion (Marion Lynn) says… "That is not what happened and history proves it."

How is that not what happened? The area was 90% Palestinians before all of the European jews started showing up and stealing the land.

===================== vertigo (Jesse Crittenden) says… "In my eyes Israel is like the kid in middle school who is taller and bigger than everyone else in class but keeps to himself for the most part. Palestine is the smaller kid who is constantly running his mouth and doing everything he can to provoke Israel."

You've got it all backwards. Israel is like a wimpy little punk who knows that he can bully everyone else because big, bad America will protect them no matter what.

Practicality 5 years, 3 months ago

Can you imagine what the U.S. would do if terrorist groups were routinely launching rockets and attacks from Canada? Does anyone really think we would show even close to the restraint Israel has shown, no matter how little one might think that is? Israel has the right to defend itself.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 5 years, 3 months ago

"Seems to me Israel can handle things themselves,"

So $3B in US aid plays no part in that?

1029 5 years, 3 months ago

Time to stop supporting the terrorist nation of Israel and let them fend for themselves....

jumpin_catfish 5 years, 3 months ago

I think Boris makes a good point. Haters are such bozos don't you think.

Richard Heckler 5 years, 3 months ago

"Netanyahu is a terrorist war criminal. There is no room for debate on that."

Yes a violent blood thirsty man.

jumpin_catfish 5 years, 3 months ago

I guess, after reading some of the posts here, it would have been better if all of those pesky European Jews would have been exterminated. We wouldn't want to do that would we, that seems so hitlerish. Oh that's exactly what would happen if we let Israel stand on its own. But, I'm sure their arab enemies wouldn't kill all of them, would they?

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 5 years, 3 months ago

"We also give aid to Egypt, Pakistan, Jordan, Kenya, South Africa, Mexico, Columbia, Nigeria, Sudan, and 140 other countries on this planet. "

Oh, come on, Jesse-- the per capita aid given to Israel is orders of magnitude larger than that given to any other country.

remember_username 5 years, 3 months ago

bozo - my objection is to your phrase "There's no room for debate about that" when in fact there IS debate about that. If you would have qualified your statement to say "there's no room for debate about that in my mind" or "in the minds of civilized people" I would have had made no remarks.

Per your other remarks -

The simple definition of a terrorist in my Websters dictionary says a terrorist is one who uses systematic (methodical or purposeful procedure) violence, terror, and intimidation to achieve an end. This definition is fine for the dictionary, but much to simple for real life. "One who uses" does that extend to "The figurative leader of a force that includes the one who uses"? And so on...there is more to the debate, and that is my point.

For the record I do not condone many of the actions taken by both sides of this conflict. I made the attempt years ago to really understand the conflict, its history and causes, then to develop possible solutions. The conclusions I arrived at I chose to keep to myself.

remember_username 5 years, 3 months ago

From Marian (on his 1:30 AM post) -

"Where ya at, internet thugs?"

"Where ya at, you lying stack of biosolids?"

"Come out, come out; wherever you are!"

"Where are you?"

I would imagine most were asleep at 1:30AM. I hope you weren't driving.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 5 years, 3 months ago

remember_username-- I would agree that I was expressing my opinion, but it's also my opinion that your reasoning would also allow for the flatness of the earth being debatable.

remember_username 5 years, 3 months ago

Bozo - You have every right to hold the opinion that the earth is flat, but if you tell me "that there is no room for debate" that the earth is flat, I'll have to call you on it.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 5 years, 3 months ago

Ah, but I didn't make any such declaration.

However, if I said that the world is semi-spherical, is that debatable?

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 5 years, 3 months ago

The point I'm trying to make is that any definition of "terrorist" that could exclude Netanyahu would make the word essentially meaningless.

remember_username 5 years, 3 months ago

"The point I'm trying to make is that any definition of “terrorist” that could exclude Netanyahu would make the word essentially meaningless."

Now THAT is nicely put, I wish you'd have said that in the morning of the 18th. The simple definition of Webster's, as read might include members of the previous American administration. I make no judgments, but ask others if "Shock and Awe", do not qualify as systematic violence, terror, and intimidation to achieve an end. (I think this is the point PM Netanyahu was alluding to his "warning" to other world leaders.) I begin to think the label "terrorist" should be used with discretion, as "terrorism" is much more a part of human nature than most would like to admit.

Do I believe war crimes are routinely committed by both parties in the Gaza conflict? Absolutely. Do I believe PM Netanyahu should be tried at the Hague as a war criminal? No. I would suggest something along the lines of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission of South Africa is needed as part of any peace proposal for the Palestinian / Israeli conflict.

tbaker 5 years, 3 months ago

Lets all assume Bozo is right and Netanyahu can be correctly labeled as a terrorist. How is that pertinent to the conflict?

Does that assumption mean we now must accept that there is a moral equivalence between Hamas and Israel? Were it not for Hamas, much of the current trouble between Israel and the Palestinians would be much closer to a equitable resolution.

I don't believe there is. The stated purpose of Hamas is to destroy Israel. The Israelis turned over Gaza to the Palestinians and what happened? The Israelis got rocket attacks, and the poor, hapless Palestinians got a gang war instituted by Hamas amongst their own people.

This is a war with a completely intractable enemy who believes one's own death is a promotion, who believes God wants him to kill the innocent, and that peace with Israel would be a mortal sin. This is about a evil sickness in the very soul of a civilization, in this case the Middle-Eastern expression of Islam. This can only be cured from within. The Palestinian people can not say in one breath "We elected Hamas!" and in the very next say "But golly, we're not responsible for their terrorism."

Until Arabs in the region (or Iranians for that matter) decide to have their version of the reformation (perhaps even the inquisition as well) and cure themselves, the Israelis will have to fight to preserve their existence. Unfortunately, many (squeamish) folks in this country and the rest of the world (UN) continue to cling to the totally debunked idea that if the TALKS continue, we can somehow find a solution. Talking only prolongs the suffering of innocent people on both sides.

Even if Israel was destroyed, the evidence is pretty clear that who ever inherited the land would continue to fight among themselves. It's already common practice for Hamas to kill-off their "less-devout" fellow Muslims who do not share their perverted view of the world. Palestinians may not like Israelis, but at the end of the day, it's Hamas who is killing them, not Israel.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 5 years, 3 months ago

I gotta give you credit, tbaker-- those are some exquisitely choreographed straw men.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 5 years, 3 months ago

"I would suggest something along the lines of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission of South Africa is needed as part of any peace proposal for the Palestinian / Israeli conflict. "

I agree-- the barbarity from both sides is extreme enough that if you start trying and imprisoning people, that'd turn into a full-time industry in itself.

kugrad 5 years, 3 months ago

Grab a copy of the Christian Science Monitor (hardly a publication that can be attacked with the knee-jerk "liberal media" sophism, from Sept. 20, 09 and read the cover story. It is about Israeli occupation of the west bank by building wealthy suburban enclaves there. If you believe that this problem is one-sided and that Israel only acts in self-defense, you are misinformed. That being said, the same goes for the Palestinians; I'm not implying that they have the high ground here, just that the issue is quite complex, that Israel is far from blameless, and that this issue cannot be understood through simplifications.

gl0ck0wn3r 5 years, 2 months ago

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