Archive for Wednesday, September 16, 2009
Carter suggests Wilson outburst ‘based on racism’
September 16, 2009
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Former President Jimmy Carter is flanked by his wife, Rosalynn, as he speaks Tuesday during “Conversations at the Carter Center” in Atlanta.
Atlanta — Former President Jimmy Carter said Tuesday that U.S. Rep. Joe Wilson’s outburst to President Barack Obama during a speech to Congress last week was an act “based on racism” and rooted in fears of a black president.
“I think it’s based on racism,” Carter said at a town hall held at his presidential center in Atlanta. “There is an inherent feeling among many in this country that an African-American should not be president.”
The Georgia Democrat said the outburst was a part of a disturbing trend directed at the president that has included demonstrators equating Obama to Nazi leaders.
“Those kind of things are not just casual outcomes of a sincere debate on whether we should have a national program on health care,” he said. “It’s deeper than that.”
Wilson, a South Carolina Republican, was formally rebuked Tuesday in a House vote for shouting “You lie!” during Obama’s speech to Congress last Wednesday.
The shout came after the president commented that illegal aliens would be ineligible for federal subsidies to buy health insurance. Republicans expressed their disbelief with sounds of disapproval, punctuated by Wilson’s outburst.
Tuesday’s rebuke was a rare resolution of disapproval pushed through by Democrats who insisted that Wilson had violated basic rules of decorum and civility. Republicans characterized the measure as a witch hunt and Wilson, who had already apologized to Obama, insisted he owed the House no apology.
Wilson’s spokesman was not immediately available for comment, but his eldest son defended his father.
“There is not a racist bone in my dad’s body,” said Alan Wilson, an Iraq veteran who is running for state attorney general. “He doesn’t even laugh at distasteful jokes. I won’t comment on former President Carter, because I don’t know President Carter. But I know my dad, and it’s just not in him.
“It’s unfortunate people make that jump. People can disagree — and appropriately disagree — on issues of substance, but when they make the jump to race it’s absolutely ludicrous. My brothers and I were raised by our parents to respect everyone regardless of background or race.”
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16 September 2009
at 2:43 a.m.
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Marion (Marion Lynn) says…
mmmmmmmmmmmmmm…………………….
So now if a “Black Man” is indeed and in fact lying and someone calls him out on it, that someone is “racist”?
ok
i get it
i mean “Jimmuh The Peanut Farmer” has spoken
16 September 2009
at 6:10 a.m.
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grammaddy (Anonymous) says…
As a State Legislator, Joe Wilson was one of the 7 who voted to keep the Dixie Rebel flag flying, and still belongs to some shady organizations. I'm saying the same about Kanye, what if a white rapper had done to a Sista what he did to poor little Taylor Swift. Racism is alive and well and thriving in this country!!
16 September 2009
at 6:42 a.m.
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barrypenders (Anonymous) says…
It appears that progressive democrats are desperate. The progressive people that evolved to save mankind is resorting to pity guilt and the the tired old 'cliche' racism? Sorting humans by pigmentation as an example of 'hope and change'? That is progressive.
grammaddy, referencing behavior of the progressive democrats from the old south, is old progressive pity guilt vernacular, that was dispatched by the rebublican Abe.
Darwin bless you all
16 September 2009
at 6:50 a.m.
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snap_pop_no_crackle (Anonymous) says…
Mr. Carter, 1976 called. Your relevance misses you and wants you back.
16 September 2009
at 7 a.m.
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Liberty_One (Anonymous) says…
What's interesting is that this claim of racism is rooted in Carter's own rigid, intolerant views. He is so thoroughly convinced of the “rightness” of what Obama is trying to do that he cannot fathom anyone intelligently disagreeing with it. To him there can be no ethical reason for not agreeing with what he believes to be such an obviously correct policy. Thus, he can only conclude that there must be an unethical reason or that Wilson is not intelligent enough to see the light on the wisdom of Obama's policies.
16 September 2009
at 7:26 a.m.
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Boeing (Anonymous) says…
Ok…I did not vote for Obama, I do not like Obama, I disagree with him on most things…guess I hate Black people. What a bummer since I am marrying one…guess I should tell her.
16 September 2009
at 7:26 a.m.
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tkeagleblog (Anonymous) says…
Using the Racist card gets old after a while, exspecially if there is no Justification for it.
16 September 2009
at 7:33 a.m.
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vertigo (Jesse Crittenden) says…
“Carter suggests Wilson outburst ‘based on racism’”
Suggest all you want… doesn't make it so. The only person who knows for sure is Joe Wilson. I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. I disagree about his timing as it shows complete disrespect, however I don't believe his outburst was based in any fashion on the fact that Obama is mixed race.
16 September 2009
at 7:49 a.m.
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craigers (Anonymous) says…
Who would have thought an ex-President would start throwing down the race card?
16 September 2009
at 7:49 a.m.
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jafs (Anonymous) says…
According to the fact checking article I read, they concluded that Obama was in fact NOT lying.
Just in case anyone cares about that.
16 September 2009
at 7:52 a.m.
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Boeing (Anonymous) says…
jafs - who are “they”?
16 September 2009
at 8 a.m.
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TheYetiSpeaks (Anonymous) says…
Racism?…Or he could have actually been lying. According to the bill ANYONE will be able to buy the public option health insurance as citizenship will not be verified. You might want to read the actual bill, jafs, instead of getting your info from biased websites.
16 September 2009
at 8:12 a.m.
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TomShewmon (Tom Shewmon) says…
I knew this was boing to be the case when he was elected. Dems have themselves a virtually criticism-proof president. This is to say, sure, you can criticize him, but the result is you (assuming most who do are to the right) will be labelled racists. And it is working like a charm for Obama, Pelosi and Reid and the rest of the revolting far-left idealogues in the Democratic party. Complete joke. But, we see Reid bombing in NV polls, trailing double digits behind Tarkanian, and I would suggest that he is one of (at least at this juncture) 5-6 Dem senators who are in trouble, Dodd being another one. The house will lose at least 20 seats, just next year. Once we clear the deck of these far-left Dems, then Obama can be dealt with accordingly. See who starts apologizing then. It's stunning that even after all the volumes of irrefutable evidence that ACORN is crooked as a dog hinds leg, the corrupt liberal elite Obama-supporting media and this trainwreck of a congress and Holder absolutely refuse to go after them. Why? Where did Obama get his start and who does ACORN represent? There are your reasons why they don't. Instead, they are going to 'scold' a white congressman for exercising his freedom of speech. This is where Obama, Pelosi and Reids brand of fascism starts–right here, right now.
16 September 2009
at 8:20 a.m.
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ReadingSports (Anonymous) says…
Carter has always been just a little nutty, getting worse as he gets older. Carter is just trying to defend the only president that's worse than he was.
And I'm going to say that what Wilson did was most great. Wilson was just speaking truth to power. I, for one, and I'm the only one, don't think he should have apologized either.
So does this mean that all the wacky libs are going to love me today. Let's see who will be the first to direct the R word at me.
16 September 2009
at 8:31 a.m.
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puddleglum (Anonymous) says…
no not racist at all…I'm sure joe wilson embraces the african-american culture. I'm sure that he is glad that his home state, the first to secede lost the civil war and has been humiliated ever since.
he's just a good guy.
16 September 2009
at 8:34 a.m.
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musbhiorlo (Anonymous) says…
I agree with Jimmy Carter, these people (the right) can't handle the fact that we have a black president.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8…
16 September 2009
at 8:39 a.m.
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jaywalker (Anonymous) says…
Bingo! Yahtzee! We have a winner. Thank you for playing, President Carter.
Sure sign that “racism” has lost all meaning becomes evident every time somebody decides to throw it out there with the only supporting evidence being: one person was white and the other black. That's just swell. Soooo, any interaction that's not happy happy joy joy is seated in one's belief in racial superiority? That's the epitome of a logically fallacious argument, and imo, the biggest roadblock today in the way of racial harmony, doesn't matter what color the moron's skin that perpetuates such blather.
16 September 2009
at 8:42 a.m.
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Rackhouse (Anonymous) says…
I find this one comment interesting from Joe Wilson's son. The one running for state attorney general.
“He doesn’t even laugh at distasteful jokes”
Now, the article is about racism so you have to assume the distasteful jokes were racist in nature.
So, a congressman and his son are affiliated with a crowd in which racist jokes could be standard fare but the congressman has not a racist bone in his body.
What a joke.
16 September 2009
at 8:45 a.m.
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TomShewmon (Tom Shewmon) says…
“I'm sure joe wilson embraces the african-american culture.”- puddle
Is he required to? Do most blacks embrace white culture? Hardly. Try again.
16 September 2009
at 8:46 a.m.
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musbhiorlo (Anonymous) says…
let me guess jaywalker, you're white.
16 September 2009
at 8:50 a.m.
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75x55 (Anonymous) says…
“So, a congressman and his son are affiliated with a crowd in which racist jokes could be standard fare but the congressman has not a racist bone in his body.
What a joke.”
Commenting on your own previous sentence isn't 'good form'.
16 September 2009
at 8:54 a.m.
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mickeyrat (Anonymous) says…
Morning favorite (from 7:00am):
“(Carter) is so thoroughly convinced of the 'rightness' of what Obama is trying to do that he cannot fathom anyone intelligently disagreeing with it…”
Apparently, shouting “you lie!” in an assembly of a thousand or so people is a definition of “intelligent disagreement” with which I was previously unfamiliar.
Direct question of the morning (from 8:12am): “who does ACORN represent?”
Indeed. Where does the fear and hostility toward ACORN come from? Could it be that this “vision” of America is not what our country should “look like”?
16 September 2009
at 8:56 a.m.
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blue73harley (Anonymous) says…
Next news article -
Wilson demands apology from Carter.
16 September 2009
at 9 a.m.
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deathpenaltyliberal (Anonymous) says…
Where does the obsession with ACORN come from? They were funded for years by Republicans and Bush, where was the outrage then?
16 September 2009
at 9:04 a.m.
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The_Original_Bob (Anonymous) says…
Acorn got busted yet again. #4.
16 September 2009
at 9:11 a.m.
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jafs (Anonymous) says…
Yeti,
If (which is by no means certain) a public option is part of the final bill, then you are correct. There would be no more safeguards against illegal immigrants buying that plan than there are now against them buying private insurance.
But, I'm pretty sure that's not what the argument was about - it was about whether illegal immigrants would receive any of the payments to help folks who can't afford to buy insurance on their own.
And, according to the bill I've seen and read and heard discussed, there is an explicit provision in it which prohibits that.
I agree, though, that the question of the public option is a valid one.
By the way, since ER's are forbidden by law to turn anyone away, we're all paying for care that illegal immigrants receive there right now. And, that's usually pretty expensive care.
16 September 2009
at 9:11 a.m.
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jaywalker (Anonymous) says…
No, hiorlo, I'm a person. Why? Does my comment lack the requisite pandering to all things racial?
“So, a congressman and his son are affiliated with a crowd in which racist jokes could be standard fare but the congressman has not a racist bone in his body.
What a joke.”
Briiilliant. So then you harbor the same disdain for President Obama due to his 'affiliation' with Reverend Wright? At times I'm awe-struck that we can have this many ignorant people walking around and still function as a relatively normal society.
On a seperate note, I love the fact the Prez called out Kanye for what he is, though the minions at ABC are pathetic for releasing the off-air comments.
16 September 2009
at 9:30 a.m.
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georgiahawk (Anonymous) says…
South Carolina white republican politician, racist? Not a chance! There is no racism in the south! All the white folk got over that a long time ago when hanging colored folk went out of fashion. Now we are all brothers, we go to the same bars, the same churches (chicken), why we even let the colored men folk look at our white women. South Carolina has been leading this cultural revolution. We, down here in the south are proud that a black man is President, we only wish that he had married our daughter.
16 September 2009
at 9:36 a.m.
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Rackhouse (Anonymous) says…
Man, my comment really stirred a couple of feathers. I was just pointing out an irregularity in the comments from his son in regards to the man not having a racist bone in his body but being around those who tell racist jokes.
Obama\Wright - don't see the connection unless you're trying to articulate the he did it so it's OK for the other one to do it argument.
I believe the article was about what motivated congressman Wilson. Was it racism? I just pointed out that his son, in trying to defend him from this charge actually opened the door a little bit into thier inner circle, that's all.
16 September 2009
at 9:37 a.m.
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TopJayhawk (Anonymous) says…
I'm not an Obama fan as most of you know. But c'mon. If you can't respect the man, you must respect the Office. You do NOT yell out like that when POTUS is speaking to Congress.
As much as the Dems hated Bush, I don't ever recall hearing anyone yell at him in this kind of venue.
I don't like my party much these days, and this is a perfect example of why.
16 September 2009
at 9:42 a.m.
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TopJayhawk (Anonymous) says…
Rackhouse.
You may be right, but if you are white, you know that sometimes people you don't normally hang out with, those that don't know you well, will fire one off at you. So no, I don't think that necessarily is a contradiction.
I must say however that over the last decade or so, I really don't hear that many racist jokes anymore. Is this a sign of progress, or have all the jokes been told?
16 September 2009
at 9:46 a.m.
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Marion (Marion Lynn) says…
“puddleglum (Anonymous) says…
no not racist at all…I'm sure joe wilson embraces the african-american culture.”
Marion writes:
So there is such a thing as an “African-American culture”?
Is it OK to advocate for the preservation of that culture?
16 September 2009
at 9:58 a.m.
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Rackhouse (Anonymous) says…
Top, I am a black man in the unique position of being the first and only black manager at my company. Becuase of where I am within my company, I do believe progress is continually being made but doubt that all of the jokes have been or ever will be told.
I'm not a regular poster on this forum. I often view the debates at work when I eat lunch at my desk but I don't log in to comment due to IT restrictions at my job. Home sick today with the flu and don't want to make anyone else sick.
I find these debates highly entertaining. You really see the full spectrum of society within these discussions which at times, can get downright scary :)
Thanks for the intelligent response to my post.
16 September 2009
at 10:29 a.m.
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jaywalker (Anonymous) says…
“in regards to the man not having a racist bone in his body but being around those who tell racist jokes.”
Sorry, rack, but you can't now state you were just pointing out discrepancies when you ended with 'What a joke', as if anyone ever in the presence of someone who made an off-color remark is by affiliation racist. And that's where the Obama/Wright correlation comes into play. If you want to contend that since Wilson has had conversations w/ people who've made racially derogatory statements in his presence and therefore that makes him a racist, then the same line of logic would have to hold true for Obama. And that line of rationale is ridiculous. Please tell us how anyone and everyone is to insulate themselves from ever hearing a crude remark lest the hearer be instantly cloaked in 'supremacy'.
16 September 2009
at 10:34 a.m.
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TopJayhawk (Anonymous) says…
Rack.
I hope you get to feeling better and thanks for your response.
I hope things are getting better. I also know full well that I don't see the same things you see because I am white. It's not that we don't agree that things have, and do need to change. It's just that we aren't confronted with the same things you are.
Nice talking to you.
16 September 2009
at 10:36 a.m.
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TopJayhawk (Anonymous) says…
James.
As one who works in the field, you are right.
16 September 2009
at 10:42 a.m.
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flicker (Anonymous) says…
I love how people on here says Obama is a *black* president! You do know his mother was Caucasian, right? And that he was raised by Caucasian grandparents? Why is it that he is considered *black* or African American when he is 50% Caucasian and 50% from African American descendants? Does *black* trump *white*?
This administration has done more to HURT race relations in the last 8 months than the previous 2 decades combined helped the efforts. The Henry Gates Jr. debacle is what really opened my eyes to where we are heading. Oh, and I unfortunately voted for Obama.
16 September 2009
at 10:58 a.m.
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tbaker (Anonymous) says…
If President Obama continues to ignore the will of the people in this country, he will soon join Mr. Carter in perpetual irrelevance.
16 September 2009
at 11:06 a.m.
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bookemdano (Anonymous) says…
Regardless of whether Jimmy Carter is right or wrong, this conversation is a big loser for the President. It's an unwinnable argument for either side, and just serves to divide us even more than we currently are.
I happen to like Jimmy Carter and think that he has done a lot of good in his life (especially after he left office). But this is a case where despite his feelings he should have kept his mouth shut. Perhaps in a few years when times are good again and Obama isn't facing crises at every turn would be a better time to address this issue, but to bring it up now when things are already at the boiling point just did a huge disservice to this country.
16 September 2009
at 11:10 a.m.
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porch_person (Anonymous) says…
Carter has a case.
Outside of assassination attempts, the thought of bringing assault and concealed weapons to a speech by the President would be inconceivable. The anger and irrational opposition to Obama isn't just because he's Democrat. There is a significant aspect of racism involved with this opposition to Obama.
Here on LJ World, one poster made racist statements, (one statement got Don Imus fired for 9 months) and didn't not feel that the statements were racist. It's understandable that one doesn't want to think of oneself as “racist” but that desire isn't preventing the racist comments that everyone can read.
16 September 2009
at 11:11 a.m.
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Rackhouse (Anonymous) says…
Jay, sorry, had to lie down for a moment. I give you the benefit of the doubt on the similarities of the two events. My only response would be this.
Obama's affiliation with Wright was out in the public. I for one believe Obama was a fool for being affiliated with him. But I also believe this - it's church and anyone who lets the individual in the pulpit control your life is a fool. At the end of the day, I believe Obama, just like most other politicians, was just checking off a box when he went to church.
Having stated that, we're not talking about church in the congressman's case. At least I hope not. This circle could be a very influential one and is probably still in place today. Who knows?
16 September 2009
at 11:12 a.m.
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TomShewmon (Tom Shewmon) says…
OK, to those of you who call me a right-wing nutbag, well check out this little quiz I took on-line and where I fell, almost a polar opposite of Obama/Pelosi/Reid politics. So you can stop with the racist crap, please.
http://www.theadvocates.org/quizp/qui…
You take the quiz–it's very simple and to the point 10 questions.
http://www.theadvocates.org/quizp/ind…
16 September 2009
at 11:14 a.m.
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AreUNorml (Anonymous) says…
another hail mary to the minorities. “hey don't forget whitey is out to get you. vote Democrat, so that we can save you” puh-lease. To the open eye, the racism is clearly visible within the Democratic party.
I feel so sorry for Obama, being compared to Hitler and Nazis. Gosh, can anyone believe that a group of people would dare call a sitting president a Nazi…Let's ask George Bush if he can believe it.
And what ground does Wilson have to stand on. Obama has never lied about anything…..except all that stuff he promised on the campaign trail. but that was all trivial. nobody really believed the pie in the sky did they?
16 September 2009
at 11:18 a.m.
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AreUNorml (Anonymous) says…
thanks for the quiz Tom.
mine was exactly correct.
libertarians support maximum liberty in both personal and economic matters. They advocate a much smaller government; one that is limited to protecting individuals from coercion and violence. Libertarians tend to embrace individual responsibility, oppose government bureaucracy and taxes, promote private charity, tolerate diverse lifestyles, support the free market, and defend civil liberties.
16 September 2009
at 11:24 a.m.
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fishcat (Anonymous) says…
Must we now classify our President as Halfrican American?
16 September 2009
at 11:24 a.m.
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barrypenders (Anonymous) says…
I guess progressive democrats can make fun of white culture but white culture cannot point out poor behavior of others.
The Pesident Obama is so revered by ACORN and their behavior. I wonder if the 'Poser' otus had any respect for the duty and honor for the office he was enabled to, would the culture that recognizes an honorable Potus, respect him?
Darwin bless you all
16 September 2009
at 11:31 a.m.
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preebo (Anonymous) says…
I don't know about racism, but I find that Rep. Wilson's tactless, belligerent, outburst is just another attempt by the “Right” in this country to DE-legitimize the Office of President of the United States, now that Barack Hussein Obama is the 44th occupant. Could this be somehow based on race, sure. Does that mean it is the same overt type that has permeated our society over the centuries, perhaps not. Maybe this a more covert and latent racism that allows a member of congress to shout out in a most disrespectful manner at the President of the Union. In other words, Wilson did not shout out because Obama is black, but it is hard to imagine him doing that to Clinton, as a matter of fact he didn't during his speech. There are numerous other venues for him to voice his opposition, yet he chose to abstain from that option. For someone who claims to love America and its “traditional values” this is an odd way to show it.
16 September 2009
at 11:49 a.m.
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barrypenders (Anonymous) says…
preebo
With your logic, I guess people that dislike Obama that were not born with either parent white, dislike him because of their “overt and latent r–—”?
Amusing progressive addition to the progressive 'hate' vernacular.
Darwin bless you
16 September 2009
at 11:54 a.m.
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jimmyjms (Anonymous) says…
“If President Obama continues to ignore the will of the people in this country, he will soon join Mr. Carter in perpetual irrelevance. ”
Hmm…
A majority of people in this country approve of the overall job that the POTUS is doing, and Jimmy Carter has racked up myriad awards and recognition for his work post-presidency…
So what in the hell are you talking about?
http://pewresearch.org/databank/daily…
16 September 2009
at 11:55 a.m.
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BigPrune (Anonymous) says…
Jimmy Carter is a “liar!” This race card b.s. seems to be last ditch effort. I predict Obama's numbers will drop even further now. The dems are testing the waters early to see what'll work best for their campaign.
16 September 2009
at 12:03 p.m.
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tbaker (Anonymous) says…
AreUNormal sounds pretty normal to me.
The libertarian ideology fits me best, although they are a little out there on illicit drugs, and the preemptive use of our military. Aside from that, they're spot on. I won't join their party though. Organized political parties should be outlawed. They are ruinous to liberty.
16 September 2009
at 12:03 p.m.
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porch_person (Anonymous) says…
On Obama's association with Wright:
I've gone to many churches and every minister is a nice guy interpersonally but sometimes they say some batsh1t crazy things. I'm not the batsh1t crazy stuff they say but anyone who says that ministers don't go off the edge during sermons sometimes isn't being honest. I can tell the difference between Barack Obama and Reverend Wright.
I find it hilarious that conservatives are running to online “I'm not a racist” sites to “prove” they aren't racist.
(laughter)
“I got my ticket. See? I'm not a racist. www.areyouamoron.org sez so!”
(laughter)
16 September 2009
at 12:04 p.m.
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kujayhawk (Anonymous) says…
Jimmy must be a racist in order for that thought to even cross his mind.
16 September 2009
at 12:12 p.m.
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Liberty_One (Anonymous) says…
mickeyrat, so calling people racists without cause is intelligent in your book?
16 September 2009
at 12:13 p.m.
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gogoplata (Anonymous) says…
If you don't agree with and support all decisions made by Barry O, you my friend are a racist.
If you drink your coffee any way other than black, you are a racist.
If you don't always bet on black, you are a racist.
Not a fan of Johnny Cash, Cornhusker Defense, or ACDC, racist.
16 September 2009
at 12:13 p.m.
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porch_person (Anonymous) says…
No racism in the Republican Party?
======
” When I travel to speak at Republican conferences and events around the country, wandering through hotels, convention centers and social clubs, as I approach the rooms where I'm scheduled to speak, I am often told by Republicans that I must be in the wrong place.
While boarding a shuttle bus to a national convention a few years ago, an attendee who was already on the bus introduced himself to another white guest who was boarding, took one look at me and, in an attempt to be helpful, told me I was on the wrong bus.
As a Bush delegate at the 2000 convention in Philadelphia, I proudly wore my delegate's badge and RNC lapel pin as I worked the convention. Regardless of the fact that I was obviously a delegate prominently displaying my credentials, no less than six times did white delegates dismissively tell me to fetch them a taxi or carry their luggage.
…
There is a prevalent insensitivity within this party's leadership regarding issues that are important or hurtful to the African American community in general. We cannot continue to elect leaders who have no regard for all of the people. ”
–- Shannon Reeves
Secretary of the Board of the California Republican Party, a fourteen-year conservative Republican activist, and an African-American
Thursday, January 09, 2003
=========
I don't believe the Republican Party has cleaned up it's act in six years.
Case closed. Deal with it. Or become more marginalized.
16 September 2009
at 12:18 p.m.
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gogoplata (Anonymous) says…
I'm a racist, your a racist, wouldn't you like to be a racist to?
16 September 2009
at 12:33 p.m.
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tbaker (Anonymous) says…
People see this nonsense for what it is. Carter's baseless charges of racism are starting to sound a lot like Charlie Brown's teacher. It's obvious that in many cases the race grenade is being thrown in a last-ditch defense of a losing idea. Its too bad really. The liberals gratuitous abuse of race to forward their unpopular agenda will end up hurting efforts to fix genuine racial problems. Its ironic too. Liberals are supposed to be the champion for minorities. Instead they exploit them for partisan political reasons. Pathetic.
16 September 2009
at 12:34 p.m.
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AreUNorml (Anonymous) says…
Porch, you're generalizing just as badly as the people who Shannon Reeves claimed to have dealt with. The assumption is that all Republicans are racist. Should we therefor consider that all black people are in gangs? I came to that generalization using your formula of deduction. This is easy, all white people can't dance. All Asians are great at dry cleaning, but not so good at driving. All Mexicans are lazy, and all Jewish people have diamond businesses. Thank you for making my life so much easier through generalizations.
16 September 2009
at 12:39 p.m.
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AreUNorml (Anonymous) says…
tbaker has nailed it on the head! minorities in this country should be disgusted with the exploitation tactics used over the last 40+ years. Are minority living conditions any better? for some, yes. But the majority of minorities still live well below the poverty line. you would think that half a century of nurturing by the Democrats would have lifted everyone up. But fixing the problems of minorities is hardly the best plan for a party that thrives on “helping”
16 September 2009
at 12:40 p.m.
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tony88 (Anonymous) says…
you all glossed over perhaps the most “racist” post on this thread, from none other than barrypenders:
“I guess progressive democrats can make fun of white culture but white culture cannot point out poor behavior of others.
The Pesident Obama is so revered by ACORN and their behavior. I wonder if the 'Poser' otus had any respect for the duty and honor for the office he was enabled to, would the culture that recognizes an honorable Potus, respect him?”
so “white culture” is the “culture that recognizes an honorable potus”?
16 September 2009
at 12:46 p.m.
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shockchalk (Anonymous) says…
Quite a leap for the worst president of all time. Come now, do the liberal left really need to play the race card to defend the worst Health Care Reform Bill ever? There are already enough reasons to dread this bill without making up another one…….especially this one.
16 September 2009
at 12:46 p.m.
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MichaelJ (Anonymous) says…
Jimmy Carter is, and has always been, a moron.
16 September 2009
at 12:56 p.m.
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cg22165 (Anonymous) says…
Carter: One of the best ex-presidents we've ever had. Been around long enough to recognize the patterns of racism when he sees it.
Obama: Telling the truth and getting called a liar for his effort.
http://www.factcheck.org/2009/09/obam…
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/a…
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/…
Wilson: Misinformed, and adamant with his misinformation, but even he may not know if he is a racist in his heart, much less anyone else.
16 September 2009
at 12:59 p.m.
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tbaker (Anonymous) says…
Normal - Thats what liberals do: they put people into groups / categories. The individual identity is their enemy. Removing the individual identity and lumping everyone into groups makes it easier to level charges for or against large numbers of people all at the same time. It facilitates “identity” politics. People who freely shed their individual identity (and liberty with it) in favor of being lumped in with a group have been duped.
16 September 2009
at 1 p.m.
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Jimo (Anonymous) says…
I don't see Carter says more than some of the current silly yet vile insanity directed in opposition to the President has its roots in racism. That's been obvious to anyone with eyes for some time now. Heck, just yesterday from Rush Limbaugh, the leader of the GOP: “In Obama's America, the white kids now get beat up with the black kids cheering.” Pure, unrestrained racism.
16 September 2009
at 1:03 p.m.
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cg22165 (Anonymous) says…
“
I love how people on here says Obama is a *black* president! You do know his mother was Caucasian, right? And that he was raised by Caucasian grandparents? Why is it that he is considered *black* or African American when he is 50% Caucasian and 50% from African American descendants? Does *black* trump *white*?
”
To the people who judge others by the color of their skin, yes, it does.
16 September 2009
at 1:09 p.m.
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tony88 (Anonymous) says…
“Thats what liberals do: they put people into groups / categories. The individual identity is their enemy.”
Are “liberals” one of these “groups/categories”? So you just lumped all these people with widely varying viewpoints into a “group/category” which you call the “liberals”? ha ha ha! fail
16 September 2009
at 1:10 p.m.
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flicker (Anonymous) says…
cg22165 - I'm not judging anyone by their skin, simply pointing out a fact; only using *black* and *white* merely as a way of description in print.
Your own comment is racist and you probably don't even see it. How funny.
16 September 2009
at 1:12 p.m.
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flicker (Anonymous) says…
Tony88 - what do you think happens when people all over this board lump anyone that goes against the lefty view as a right-wing nut? Happens quite often don't ya think?
16 September 2009
at 1:20 p.m.
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tony88 (Anonymous) says…
sure. how does that negate my point that tbaker's comment was internally contradictory? in making his comment he that he does exactly what he claimed “liberals” do.
what's the deal with terms like “lefty” and “righty”? meaningless… unless you're talking about pitchers and hitters
16 September 2009
at 1:22 p.m.
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tbaker (Anonymous) says…
tony - you didn't read the thread. I was talking about “minority” groups, not political ideologies. Yawn…
16 September 2009
at 1:24 p.m.
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tony88 (Anonymous) says…
oh… i read the thread. yawn…
you didn't take my post to heart. burp…
you still do the same thing… yawn…
16 September 2009
at 1:28 p.m.
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porch_person (Anonymous) says…
AreUNormal,
I didn't generalize anything. I provided testimony from someone high up within the Republican Party. The Republican Party is becoming more and more marginalized, even Republicans note this.
Deal with it.
Let me reorient you.
The Republican Party has lost in the last two election cycles. The last Republican President exhibited visible signs of brain damage from alcoholism. The last Vice-Presidential candidate of the Republican Party didn't know what a Vice-President does, couldn't name a single Supreme Court decision and couldn't name a newspaper she read. The defacto leader of the Republican Party is a deaf drug addict on the radio.
The population demographics are not trending towards Caucasians, they are trending away. For a white political party in a democracy, that should jump out at you as a potential problem but feel free to employ hyperbole and denial on an Internet blog as your choice for best response.
16 September 2009
at 1:36 p.m.
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cg22165 (Anonymous) says…
Flicker,
I wasn't talking about you.
Please explain. I'm saying that someone who judges others by the color of their skin will weigh the darkness of their skin more than their upbringing. It's kind of by-definition. I'm not saying that you, or anyone else in particular makes such judgments; I'm just saying that some people like that exist. You're right; I don't see how that, in and of itself, is racist.
What I am pointing out is the irrationality of attempting to use a rational argument on people who aren't rational.
16 September 2009
at 1:59 p.m.
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tony88 (Anonymous) says…
furthermore, tbaker, the tacit assumption in your post is that minority individuals and minority groups are incapable of being aware when/if they are being manipulated… that they are easily duped.
why isn't this the case with white people? yawn… snort, snort…
16 September 2009
at 2:02 p.m.
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tbaker (Anonymous) says…
OK tony, once again the communication process has broken down. Either you aren't really interested in what I wrote, so you didn't read it, or you simply want to avoid addressing the issue I raised, so you trowel-out some more pointless tripe that doesn't contribute to the discussion.
People of the liberal political ideology tend to practice identity politics; a practice based on sorting people into ethic, and/or sociopolitical groups. In the context of my post, that would be racial minority groups of people.
Those of the conservative political ideology tend not to do this. They tend to focus on the primacy of the individual human being - not whatever ethic, and/or sociopolitical identity they could also be labeled with.
Exceptions abound, but as a general observation this difference between the two political ideologies tends to be a routinely characteristic difference that separates them.
Given the fact Carter's ruminations about race are baseless, one is at a loss to explain why an intelligent person would say such things. The liberal tendency to practice identity politics helps explain what motivated Carter's comments.
16 September 2009
at 2:26 p.m.
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vertigo (Jesse Crittenden) says…
tbaker (Anonymous) says…
People of the liberal political ideology tend to practice identity politics; a practice based on sorting people into ethic, and/or sociopolitical groups. In the context of my post, that would be racial minority groups of people.
Those of the conservative political ideology tend not to do this. They tend to focus on the primacy of the individual human being - not whatever ethic, and/or sociopolitical identity they could also be labeled with.
************************************************************************
So Republicans don't gerrymander? They don't redistrict so that others with their same “ethnicity and/or sociopolitical identity” end up being in their district thus almost insuring their reelection?
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2003/dec…
http://www.clcblog.org/blog_item-99.html
16 September 2009
at 2:27 p.m.
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porch_person (Anonymous) says…
Gee, tbaker, I posted something from *within* the Republican Party and you still deny there is racism there?
(laughter)
Complete denial. Hope it works out for you.
16 September 2009
at 2:28 p.m.
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jumpin_catfish (Anonymous) says…
Whatever Carter! He was a loser as president and his continuing legacy is officially now the “Former Loser President Like No Other”.
16 September 2009
at 2:31 p.m.
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kugrad (Anonymous) says…
My understanding from watching the reports on CNN last night regarding this subject is that Carter did NOT, as the headline suggests, say this about Wilson directly. He said it, and I am paraphrasing, about 'a lot of the anger directed toward President Obama.' I think this article is very poor for being so inaccurate. I watched the Carter footage, he did not mention Wilson by name in what I saw.
I think the AP and the LJW should be more precise in their reporting. It would be best to debate issues like this in a context of accurate, factual reporting. This article spins the truth, not for some partisan gain, but to make the truth more sensational, more inflammatory, more controvertial. In the end, it produces manufactured anger, much like false information about proposed health-care changes manufactured outrage about ideas that weren't even on the table. We need accuracy in reporting. Small errors count. This error is huge. Look at all the comments about Wilson and Carter yet Carter didn't evoke Wilson's name to the best of my knowledge.
Now, it could be that there is much more to the story than I have seen and footage that wasn't broadcast, but let me say that, on CNN last night and on the Keith O. show they went over this several times and agreed Carter didn't mention Wilson by name.
16 September 2009
at 2:32 p.m.
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tony88 (Anonymous) says…
Oh, i understand what you are saying. I do not disagree that identity politics exist and are present in the practice of both major political parties (and in minor political parties). However, your position that identity politics is predominately practiced by “liberals”, while not totally without merit, is an oversimplification of the issue. “Conservatives” are guilty of the same. The “groups/categories” they use are different. Some of the groups that are most evidently manipulated by “conservatives” are: white people who feel threatened by multi-culturalism, christians (with major sub groups: anti-gay & anti-abortion), gun owners, etc. The exploitation of these positions has been quite evident recently. The claims of these groups feeling marginalized has been increasing dramatically ever since the republican party has strengthened the practice of using the above issues as “wedge issues” in elections (most evident in last year's election, but in 2004 as well). Example from recent times include the gun owners protesting the president (despite the fact that the president had made no movement toward any change in gun laws), Rush Limbaugh warning white people about the onslaught of black power, the fear that gay marriage will ruin the institution of marriage (this fear largely created by conservative propaganda), the claims of “federally funded abortion” in the health care bill, etc.
I know it's hard to see your own pet issues as pawns in the practice of identity politics, but they are… clearly.
burp…
16 September 2009
at 2:32 p.m.
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Marion (Marion Lynn) says…
Barack Hussein Obama is considered to be “black” because of the old “One Drop Rule”, which said that “one drop of “black blood”” made that person “black”.
The One Drop Rule is racist in itself and really is only used in the USA.
16 September 2009
at 2:35 p.m.
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vertigo (Jesse Crittenden) says…
Thus says the expert.
16 September 2009
at 2:38 p.m.
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AreUNorml (Anonymous) says…
Porch, I could care less if the Republican party is marginalized. It's high time that they fit in with the Democrats.
and i'm sorry that I said you were generalizing.. I assumed that when you copy & pasted such a large piece, you must have been in some sort of agreement with it.
I am confused by the remainder of your rant however. First you call the ex-president mentally retarded, suggest that Sarah Palin is an idiot, and incorrectly identify Rush Limbaugh as more than just a talk show host. If he's the leader of the Republicans, then George Soros is definitely the leader of the Democratic party.
16 September 2009
at 2:42 p.m.
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porch_person (Anonymous) says…
jumpin_catfish,
You should check out how Carter stacks up against other Presidents. http://www.pollingreport.com/wh-hstry…
The data contained there contradicts your opinion. The opinion of your neighbors. Like Clinton, Carter has gained with the passage of time. Gee, I wonder how Bush will do with the passage of time.
(laughter)
16 September 2009
at 2:44 p.m.
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AreUNorml (Anonymous) says…
(laughter)
I don't know about the rest of you
(laughter)
but reading the word laughter in parenthesis after every not so humorous jab is getting old
(laughter)
16 September 2009
at 2:45 p.m.
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Jimo (Anonymous) says…
“And so I guess we'll probably have folks putting on white hoods and white uniforms again and riding through the countryside intimidating people. That's the logical conclusion if this kind of attitude is not rebuked, and Congressman Wilson represents it.” Rep. Hank Johnson (D-Georgia).
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/…
Now that, ladies and gentlemen, is how you play the race card.
16 September 2009
at 2:46 p.m.
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Satirical (Anonymous) says…
Jimmy Carter is correct!
Anytime you disagree with someone that is African-American for any reason, you are a racist. Like the time I saw an African-American guy and a white guy arguing about which football team was better. The white guy, who claimed the Pittsburgh Steelers were a better team, was clearly being racist since he disagreed with the African-American guy, who thought the Kansas City Chiefs were a better team. So, when I went over and punched the white guy in the face, I knew I was being a hero. The African-American guy looked at me funny, but I bet he really appreciated me defending him against such oppression. Take your racism somewhere else! Not in my country!
16 September 2009
at 2:48 p.m.
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Satirical (Anonymous) says…
AreUNorml….
We figured out when Porch_person says “(laughter),” it really means he is crying because he desperately wants the last word but can't come up with anything coherent to write.
16 September 2009
at 3:06 p.m.
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Danimal (Anonymous) says…
Jimmy Carter needs to accept his failed presidency like GW Bush has, shut up and disappear from public life.
16 September 2009
at 3:08 p.m.
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porch_person (Anonymous) says…
AreUNormal
“Porch, I could care less if the Republican party is marginalized. It's high time that they fit in with the Democrats.” – AreUNormal
Agreed.
“and i'm sorry that I said you were generalizing.. I assumed that when you copy & pasted such a large piece, you must have been in some sort of agreement with it.” – AreUNormal
No agreement is necessary. It's the testimony of a black man in the Republican Party.
“I am confused by the remainder of your rant however. First you call the ex-president mentally retarded,” –- AreUNormal
I didn't say that. I said that George W. Bush's well documented alcoholism presents with evidence of brain damage. They are called “Bushisms”.
“suggest that Sarah Palin is an idiot,” – AreUNormal
Didn't do that either. Sarah Palin couldn't name a newspaper she read or a Supreme Court decision during her interview with Katie Couric and twice, got the duties of the Vice-President wrong in interview, once *after* she had been nominated to the position!
“and incorrectly identify Rush Limbaugh as more than just a talk show host.” AreUNormal
Micheal Steele is the Chairman of the Republican Party. Yet, in March, when he expressed the opinion that Rush Limbaugh was “vile”, “incendiary”, and “an entertainer” (when D.L. Hughley stgated that Rush Limbaugh was the de facto leader of the Republican Party), he apologized saying “There was no attempt on my part to diminish his voice or his leadership.”
“If he's the leader of the Republicans, then George Soros is definitely the leader of the Democratic party.” – AreUNormal
Wrong. Depending upon which way you're looking at it, Howard Dean or President Obama are the leader(s) of the Democratic Party.
16 September 2009
at 3:11 p.m.
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jaywalker (Anonymous) says…
That's probably pretty accurate, Sat. I've come to take it as a demented cackle and not so subtle plea for mental assistance, but porchie does suffer from last word-itis no matter how many times he has to repeat himself over and over. And over. And over. And over. And over.
(demented cackle)
16 September 2009
at 3:20 p.m.
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tbaker (Anonymous) says…
Porch: Perhaps if you weren't overcome with so much laughter, you'd (probably) comprehend a little more. I'd get that looked at.
Tony: You're improving, but you made an invalid assumption at the end of your 2:32 post.
To wit: “Exceptions abound, but as a general observation this difference between the two political ideologies tends to be a routinely characteristic difference that separates them.”
It's instructive to re-acquaint oneself with the predominant definitions of the liberal and conservative political ideologies. In today's vernacular, so-called “conservatives” who practice identity politics are NOT conservative. I wholeheartedly agree with you that people who claim to be, or are subsequently labeled “conservative” are doing exactly what you describe, but by definition, that makes them something other than a “conservative.” I shun them with equal enthusiasm.
Truth be told, the vast majority of those in our government are “statists” - those who believe in the supremacy of the government, not the sovereignty of the individual person. Some proudly declare their allegiance to modern liberalism, and some mascaraed as staunch conservatives, but upon closer inspection, they are statists feeding at the same trough. Party affiliations are a smoke screen, for they have far more in common with one another than not. As long as they can keep people divided and bickering like mindless drones along these party lines, they distract us from the true nature of their treachery.
16 September 2009
at 3:23 p.m.
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jaywalker (Anonymous) says…
“This circle could be a very influential one and is probably still in place today. Who knows?”
Sweet cheese and rice, rack! Let's review your denigration of logical rationale here:
1. In saying that his father doesn't laugh at distasteful jokes, you have:
a. jumped to the conclusion that 'distasteful jokes' must only mean racial jokes
b. jumped to the conclusion that Wilson and his son must be affiliated with racists
c. jumped to the conclusion that the two, due to affiliation, are racists
2. Now the 'affiliation' has become an 'influential circle', or cadre if you will, that still might be wielding power and influence behind the scenes?
And you got all that from “My father doesn't even laugh at distasteful jokes”?! Rosie and Charlie Sheen are looking for new members to The Conspiracy Theorists United Front Club.
16 September 2009
at 3:24 p.m.
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porch_person (Anonymous) says…
jaywalker,
You have to admit, you guys say some stuff that is really out there….
Can you tell me the name of an insurance company that will write on someone with pre-existing heart disease, diabetes, cancer or other “catastrophic” illness?
(laughter)
16 September 2009
at 3:25 p.m.
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tony88 (Anonymous) says…
no need for patronization.
16 September 2009
at 3:37 p.m.
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snap_pop_no_crackle (Anonymous) says…
The Community Organizer in Chief disagrees with Jimmy.
“White House press secretary Robert Gibbs reiterated at his press briefing this afternoon that President Obama disagrees with former President Carter's assertion that Joe Wilson's “you lie” outburst and other animosity directed at the president is grounded in racism.
“The president does not believe that — that the criticism comes based on the color of his skin,” Gibbs said. “We understand that people have disagreements with some of the decisions that we've made and some of the extraordinary actions that had to be undertaken by this administration and previous administrations to stabilize our financial system, to ensure viability of our domestic auto industry.” “
http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/09/…
16 September 2009
at 3:41 p.m.
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jaywalker (Anonymous) says…
Porch is babbling nonsense. Again.
Don't know what you're attempting to reference, porchie, or why you 'think' that's a solid reference that deserves another of your cackles. However, if your concern is whether any insurer out there is going to cover your catastrophic lack of mental facility, your fears are justified.
16 September 2009
at 3:44 p.m.
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TomShewmon (Tom Shewmon) says…
The race card has been the most important tool for the Democratic Party over the past 40 years.
(laughter)
Global Warming has been the second most important tool for the Democratic Party just over that past 5-10 years.
(laughter)
Democrats need contrived platforms promoted by propaganda–propaganda that is supported by the elite liberal media and put into motion by outfits like ACORN to continue to thrive and become the most progressive that they can be.
(laughter)
Democrats say Republicans: A. Are racists, B. Don't care about the environment, C. Don't care about the welfare of others, D. Are homophobic, E. Are bigots, F. Are intolerant because they are largely pro-life
(laughter)
They have tight-knit relationships with various organizations to spread the propaganda and the media is compliant. Some but not all of these organizations: Rainbow-Push, PlannedParenthood, PETA, Sierra Club, Al Gore's (various enterprises), ACLU, moveon.org etc etc.
(laughter)
16 September 2009
at 3:44 p.m.
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TomShewmon (Tom Shewmon) says…
(laughter)
16 September 2009
at 3:46 p.m.
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tony88 (Anonymous) says…
jaywalker, it's pretty obvious what he is referring to, whether he stated it clearly or not.. you like to play dumb… well, maybe not play?
16 September 2009
at 3:48 p.m.
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TomShewmon (Tom Shewmon) says…
Oh, I should've added N.O.W. to my list.
(laughter)
16 September 2009
at 3:50 p.m.
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tbaker (Anonymous) says…
Wow….Tom caught the Porch Flu. Get well soon buddy.
16 September 2009
at 3:53 p.m.
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tony88 (Anonymous) says…
i thought he caught CAD…
16 September 2009
at 3:59 p.m.
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porch_person (Anonymous) says…
Thank you, tony88.
I remembered the exchange with jaywalker too, even if he doesn't.
If someone says something insane, gets called on it, and then claims later that the person who called them on it is “babbling nonsense”, then I feel obliged to bring the insanity from the past back in response.
It's only fair.
(laughter)
16 September 2009
at 4 p.m.
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TomShewmon (Tom Shewmon) says…
OH shoot! I forgot NARAL!! And ACORN. Wow! I keep thinking of them!
(laughter)
There are sooo many well-heeled and well-funded and well-connected organizations working very diligently in broadcasting propaganda to the corrupt mainstream media who soaks it up like the sun on first warm sunny spring day that it get's maximum play.
(laughter)
Hey, can any of you think of any more leftist organizations working on behalf of the Democratic Party?
(laughter)
Just why *DOES* the Democratic party need so many NGO's and activist organizations working on their behalf?
(laughter)
Has anyone ever thought about it?
(laughter)
16 September 2009
at 4:03 p.m.
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AreUNorml (Anonymous) says…
I literally LMAO at Tom's (laughter) post. does anyone know if government care can reattach my ass, or do i make too much money?
16 September 2009
at 4:04 p.m.
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monheim (Anonymous) says…
@Marion:
Sorry, but he wasn't lying.
I'm literally looking at a copy of HR 3200 right now.
Title II, Subtitle C, Section 246. Probably the most concise part of this bill:
“Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States.”
http://tinyurl.com/o5hk94
16 September 2009
at 4:09 p.m.
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defenestrator (Anonymous) says…
http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmit…
Hey Tom, go getcha a piece of Unamericana.
BTW, what do you do for a living? (Disability, I'm sure.)
16 September 2009
at 4:19 p.m.
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Pilgrim2 (Anonymous) says…
“Racism!” The last cry of the over-matched liberal.
16 September 2009
at 4:23 p.m.
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TomShewmon (Tom Shewmon) says…
“BTW, what do you do for a living? (Disability, I'm sure.)”- defemestrator
No, asset manager. Probably make more by 8 am than you make in a week.
(laughter)
16 September 2009
at 4:23 p.m.
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tony88 (Anonymous) says…
that's a great piece of joe wilson memorabilia.
16 September 2009
at 4:48 p.m.
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porch_person (Anonymous) says…
Tom,
“asset manager”? In Linwood?
(laughter)
Let me guess…..you're house sitting.
(laughter)
16 September 2009
at 4:49 p.m.
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defenestrator (Anonymous) says…
Oh! (Inability, I'm sure.)
Have you ever forgotten to take off your a$$hat before meeting with a client? How embarrassing.
16 September 2009
at 5:01 p.m.
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beobachter (Anonymous) says…
Mental disability?
16 September 2009
at 5:02 p.m.
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tbaker (Anonymous) says…
Oooo…nothing like a little wealth envy to draw out the moonbats.
16 September 2009
at 5:08 p.m.
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Jimo (Anonymous) says…
In other news, 18% of New Jersey conservatives say Obama is the Anti-Christ. 17% aren't quite sure. I'm going to have to check my Left Behind series because I was sure that the Anti-Christ was Romanian.
That said, 32% of Dems say W had advance knowledge of 9-11. Obviously, 32% of Dems are confused. It was Condaleeza Rice who had the *chance* of advance knowledge of 9-11 in the intelligence reports sitting unread on her desk. (Besides, if W had known of 9-11 in advance, do you think it would have been planned or carried out so well?)
http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/pd…
16 September 2009
at 5:12 p.m.
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tony88 (Anonymous) says…
“moonbats”?
When you're not in a real discussion, you sure seem to act like the type of psuedo-conservative you loathe.
16 September 2009
at 5:14 p.m.
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tomatogrower (Anonymous) says…
Who can explain to me the total disrespect that the Republicans have shown to President Obama? There were plenty of people who disliked and disagreed with Bush, but they did not shout out names to him during his speeches to Congress. I think it's pretty obvious that there are a lot of people who just can't stand to have president who is Black. And it's probably even worse that he is half White.
Disagree with President Obama if you like, but why not try to debate the issue and not call him names? Wilson could have gone to him and said “President Obama, I can't see in the bill where you would insure that illegal immigrants would not be given health care.” Then Obama probably would have sat down with him and showed him, and if Wilson didn't think the provision wasn't strong enough, he could suggest changes. Remember, Obama has asked the Republicans over and over again to meet and help work out a plan, but they have snubbed him over and over again. Name calling is just being part of the problem, not part of the solution.
16 September 2009
at 5:18 p.m.
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tbaker (Anonymous) says…
Darn it Tony, whats up with all these assumptions? Just ask me straight up - I'll tell ya!
In my experience, I've found most people who suffer from wealth envy (Moonbats) to be statists, which I loathe. I'm hard pressed to find any kind of conservative (even the psuedo kind) with this affliction. Point one out, I'll be happy to loathe them too.
16 September 2009
at 5:22 p.m.
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tbaker (Anonymous) says…
Tomato - you're off the mark. In the last five months, Republican members of congress have offered over 800 amendments to the democratic health care legislation.
On this website, you can read all about the 35 different legislative proposals / draft bills they have offered in addition to their amendments.
http://www.gop.gov/solutions/healthcare
You heard the President (since last May) offer to meet with republicans and discuss health care? How come that meeting hasn't happened?
This isn't about health care, it's about preserving and expanding federal government power.
16 September 2009
at 5:32 p.m.
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yourworstnightmare (Anonymous) says…
Come on, racism ended when Obama was elected.
It is simply not possible for racism to exist any longer.
Therefore, none of this vitriolic anger at Obama or lunatic and belligerent behavior can possibly have race at its base.
After all, racism no longer exists.
Quod erat demonstrandum.
16 September 2009
at 5:40 p.m.
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tbaker (Anonymous) says…
BTW Tomato, don't be crestfallen over being proven wrong. If the roles were reversed, the Republicans would be doing the exact same thing to the Democrats, and have in years past, and will no doubt do it again once the current congress implodes in the next election. It'll be just as wrong then as it's always been, but they'll still do it.
Thats why I don't vote for incumbent politicians, even the ones I like. No matter how good I may think they are, I remind myself that new blood is of greater importance.
As it is, we should have a two-term limit: one in office and one in prison.
16 September 2009
at 6:01 p.m.
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beatrice (Anonymous) says…
tbaker, greed is a form of “wealth envy.” Greed among the banking and investment community ultimately led to the recent economic collapse. The banking and investment community is largely made up of conservative Republicans.
Regarding this story, Carter blew it. If you are going to accuse someone of racism, you better be able to back it up. Unfortunately, because of Carter's mistake, a lot of people are jumping on the old indignation bandwagon and making the sarcastic claims that any time someone who is white disagrees with someone who is black, then that white person obviously is a racist. This, of course, is silly.
I just ask, is the opposite true? Should I, using just as sarcastic a tone, claim that in no way is it even possible for a white person to disagree with a black person based on racism? If a white person is uncivil to a black person, or vice versa, should we never question whether or not it is based on racism?
The truth is, racism exists and we all know this. Without knowing the man, it is impossible to know if Wilson's uncivil outburst was based on racism. Without knowing, it is wrong to jump to such a conclusion. Without any supporting evidence, Jimmy Carter was wrong for making the accusation. He didn't help anything by speaking out on this matter.
16 September 2009
at 6:12 p.m.
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jaywalker (Anonymous) says…
“then I feel obliged to bring the insanity from the past back in response.”
Yeah, right. 'Cept your chronological timeline is backwards, much like yourself. Whatever your 'rationale', the introduction of some sort of healthcare topic is bizaare and out of place, not to mention that which you allude to is pure fiction, but then that's your m.o., ain't it.
tony88,
Who the blank are you? Have we had any dialogue before? If so, I don't recall it. I'm hard pressed to believe you 'recall' any such subject matter between The Mentally Handicapped One and myself, so it seems pretty dumb on your part to dive in. But feel free to get bent, cupcake.
16 September 2009
at 6:29 p.m.
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jaywalker (Anonymous) says…
“If a white person is uncivil to a black person, or vice versa, should we never question whether or not it is based on racism?”
No, bea, but it shouldn't be the default position.
Couldn't agree more with your last paragraph.
16 September 2009
at 6:39 p.m.
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tbaker (Anonymous) says…
Beatrice - Greed is a vice / lack of virtue. How does one envy something like that? Whats more, the careful distinction you make is not the norm. What is more common is the predicate assumption by many on the left that successful people were only made so at the expense of others - the little people whose backs they stepped on and exploited to get where they are today. I'll not dispute their existence, but the exception does not make the rule - and they are far and away the exception in this country today.
Which is why I was so steamed to see all the Wall Street bailouts (caused by greedy investment bankers - largely republican) and the auto-industry bail-outs (caused by greedy unions - largely democrats)
Our constitution is crystal clear as to what happens to those who for what ever reason (often greed) can't keep their financial house in order: bankruptcy.
I don't buy the “too big to fail” horse dung for one nano second. Wall Street Bankers and Auto Unions pour hundreds of millions of dollars into political campaigns on both sides - THATS why you and I are paying for them now. The whole altruistic notion that the government was saving US from financial Armageddon is little more than a ruse, a pleasant fiction, a nice sugar coating so us poor dumb serfs don't revolt while they spend our grandchildren's future to protect their golden goose campaign ATM machines.
16 September 2009
at 6:53 p.m.
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Pilgrim2 (Anonymous) says…
So .. here is what Jimmy Carter and the brilliant thinkers on the American left would have you believe of Americans right now:
We would be more than willing to welcome cap-and-trade with open arms, even if we paid a thousand dollars or more extra every year for our energy use, if Barack Obama were only white.
We would be dancing in the streets celebrating the dawning of government control of our health care if only Barack Obama were white.
It would be just dandy if government bureaucrats rationed health care for our parents, as long as the president is white.
We would jump at the chance of the government owning ALL of the auto manufacturing companies .. not just General Motors … if the president just didn't have dark skin.
We would applaud those ACORN workers giving tax avoidance advice to a pimp and his prostitute if the workers hadn't been black.
Most Americans - even ones that don't pay income taxes now - would be more than willing to give 70% of everything they earn to the federal government when asked … so long as they are asked by a white president.
We would have been thrilled, I tell you … thrilled to have all of those Islamic goons being held at Guantanamo be not only released, but sent to be school resource officers at our local government schools, if only a white president put that plan in motion.
It would be OK if a white president stood back and allowed Iran to build its coveted nukes … we're only unhappy about that because a black president is doing it.
Deficits? We don't care about deficits! Make our children and grand children and great grand children pay through the nose for our president's spending habits … just so long as the president isn't black.
Government pork? Like we actually care? Look … you folks in Washington can spend all the money you want - how about more studies of the mating habits of Polish Zlotnika pigs? - just make sure it's not a black president who signs the spending bill into law.
We wouldn't care if all illegal aliens were counted twice in the next Census … just so long as the president isn't black.
Every single member of the president's cabinet could be a tax cheat as far as we're concerned … just so long as the president is white.
Forced unionization? Bring it on! We love card check! We love the idea of union goons threatening and intimidating workers to sign a card saying they want to belong to a union! What we don't like is that a black president is pushing this idea.
More regulation of the finance sector? We could care less! For all we care you can nationalize the banks and decree that only the government can make home loans .. .and you can even apportion those home loans on the basis of race if you want to … just so long as the president is white!
16 September 2009
at 6:54 p.m.
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TomShewmon (Tom Shewmon) says…
porch_person (Anonymous) says…
Tom,
“asset manager”? In Linwood?
(laughter)
Let me guess…..you're house sitting.
––––––––––––––––
Can buy and sell you three times over.
(laughter)
16 September 2009
at 7:18 p.m.
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porch_person (Anonymous) says…
Tom,
No way. I've been to Linwood.
(laughter)
Do you put on different clothing when you “go to town”?
(laughter)
16 September 2009
at 7:39 p.m.
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tomatogrower (Anonymous) says…
tbaker (Anonymous) says…
In my experience, I've found most people who suffer from wealth envy (Moonbats) to be statists, which I loathe. I'm hard pressed to find any kind of conservative (even the psuedo kind) with this affliction. Point one out, I'll be happy to loathe them too.
I think you suffer from major stereotypitis (yes, I made up that word). I'll bet you I earn twice the money that you do, so I have nothing to envy. Having money does not make one a selfish, me, me, me jerk. I know a lot of poor conservatives, who would actually benefit if there was better health care, but they fight it because they are uneducated puppets of Fox, Limbaugh, Colter, the preacher, etc. They believe any lie put out in blanket emails untraceable to the original liar. They will also say things like “I'm not a racist, but I once had a black neighbor (never knew his name), and all he ever did was play his jungle music, and only mowed his yard every 2 weeks.” I actually am paraphrasing something someone said to me once. She had no clue how racist she was. She knew every other neighbors name, but never got around to introducing herself to her Black neighbor, but she would insist she wasn't racist, and many of the conservatives on this forum would insist that she is not a racist. Clueless.
16 September 2009
at 7:44 p.m.
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tomatogrower (Anonymous) says…
And this guy probably isn't racist either.
http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/09/16/c…
16 September 2009
at 7:51 p.m.
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tomatogrower (Anonymous) says…
Pilgrim, go back and read the article slowly and carefully. Former President Carter did not say that Wilson is a racist, because he disagreed with Obama. He said that Wilson is racist, because of his rude trailer-trash behavior towards President Obama. Why are you putting words into others mouths. No one has ever called a president names while he is giving a speech. The only difference between past presidents and our present president is he is Black, and the others weren't. Apparently Wilson thinks that gives him the right to name call. There is a tradition of booing when they disagree, which his fellow lawmakers did, but his behavior was inexcusable.
16 September 2009
at 8:15 p.m.
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faceit (Anonymous) says…
Jimmy Carter had the worst presidency of the 20th century, maybe the worst ever.
Jimmy Carter should be tried for treason and executed afterward.
Jimmy Carter is a hypocrite; he did more as a political figure to enable and support racism than any president in the past 50 years.
When he dies, ship him to Cuba and let Hamas be the color guard.
16 September 2009
at 8:21 p.m.
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beobachter (Anonymous) says…
faceit, what is your opinion of w, the previous president?
16 September 2009
at 8:32 p.m.
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witchfindergeneral (Anonymous) says…
I doubt Wilson is overtly racist, but it is quite disturbing that first and only uncivil accusation (which basically amounted to “black man=liar”) in the history of presidential addresses to a combined session of Congress *just happened* to be directed at the first African-American president. Coincidence? Maybe not…
It cannot be denied that some (very, very stupid) white conservatives have been nursing bruised racial egos of late. Perhaps Wilson somehow channeled their collective, ignorance-fueled anger into his (false) accusation.
16 September 2009
at 8:50 p.m.
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witchfindergeneral (Anonymous) says…
Tom Shewmon says…
“Democrats say Republicans: A. Are racists, B. Don't care about the environment, C. Don't care about the welfare of others, D. Are homophobic, E. Are bigots, F. Are intolerant because they are largely pro-life”
You are living proof of the validity of claim D., Tom.
Personally, I would never make a generalized claim about all Republicans (your straw men tactics are seriously getting *old*, Tom), but you have to admit that, with respect to claims A., D. and E., most racists/homophobes/bigots are most likely also socially conservative.
16 September 2009
at 8:54 p.m.
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flicker (Anonymous) says…
So, how many African Americans voted for Obama? Numbers have it that 90% did and when many were asked why it had a lot to do with sharing their same skin color. I ask if that does not make those racist? Somehow it seems to work on that side of the fence….hmmmm
16 September 2009
at 9 p.m.
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tbaker (Anonymous) says…
Tomato - Golly, I'm all a twitter replying to such a wealthy person, or maybe it's the rush I feel when I'm writing to someone who lives by so many assumptions.
So I'm operating off stereotypes, huh? I'm pretty sure you'd be some what less smug if you knew my circumstances. Theres a good reason why I post to this thing at all hours of the day from my home. I wonder if you can guess what that reason might be? But hey, if the stereotype you have of me makes you feel good - I say go for it. I'm not diminished by it - I'm happy for you. Life is awful short. Find happiness where you can. I'm happy to be of service.
Like I said, show me a conservative, even the pretend-conservatives out there; just name one that suffers from wealth envy, and I'll howl in scorn right along with you. Ya see the thing is, there aren't any. Conservatives, sometimes even the pretend ones, celebrate individual achievement. They study it. They try to emulate it, and quite of few of them are all too happy to help other people realize it. Its not the object of scorn or ridicule. It's not the product of cheating, or some how gaming the system at others expense, it's a lot of hard work, very long hours, years of sacrifice away from family, friends, and personal interests, and a considerable amount of trail and error, not to mention personal risk. Above all - it is admired.
That sort of success is what I pray for every American. The opportunity for all to go out in the world and make as much for themselves as they can. The best way to do that is to use the power of government to empower individual people to do for themselves. Equal opportunity does not come with a guarantee of equal outcome at the expense of others, nor should it.
16 September 2009
at 9:15 p.m.
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witchfindergeneral (Anonymous) says…
tbaker says…
“Conservatives, sometimes even the pretend ones, celebrate individual achievement. They study it.”
They love it. I mean, they *love* it—physically, emotionally, and spiritually. They bathe in it; they incorporate it into their very essence.
“That sort of success is what I pray for every American.”
In It, they see God. Their God is Capitalism, and they shall worship none before It.
16 September 2009
at 10:19 p.m.
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porch_person (Anonymous) says…
JamesUnruh,
You think that the white race and culture is enduring genocide. I submit that a race war already exists in your mind.
Congratulations! You have something in common with Charles Manson.
16 September 2009
at 11:15 p.m.
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porch_person (Anonymous) says…
James,
You need help. There is no “white race” to defend. What is the “white race”? All Northern European? All Aryan? Less that XX% of any other “race”?
You don't know that. According to you, “white” and “black” are like crayons in a Crayola crayon box of 64. Real people aren't like that.
If you go back in history, people you call “white” can have American Indian, African, Middle Eastern, etc, in their genetic makeup. Did you know “Jesus” didn't look like Sean Hannity. He probably looked closer to Osama Bin Laden, to tell the truth.
In fact, if you were to try by limiting breeding to a limited biological pool, you would be damaging that group through inbreeding.
17 September 2009
at 12:24 a.m.
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jaywalker (Anonymous) says…
Kudos to tbaker, nicely articulated arguments. And Pilgrim, you made me laugh. You score big pts., bro.
“You don't know that”
Porchie on yet another 'lecture' circuit, like he has a clue. Please enlighten us some more on what Jesus looked like, how there is no such thing as a 'white race', and some more of your educated knowledge on inbreeding, if you please. Fascinating stuff.
17 September 2009
at 2:42 a.m.
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Marion (Marion Lynn) says…
Even the White House says Carter is wrong:
From CBS News; a presumeably valid news source:
http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/09/…
“White House press secretary Robert Gibbs reiterated at his press briefing this afternoon that President Obama disagrees with former President Carter's assertion that Joe Wilson's “you lie” outburst and other animosity directed at the president is grounded in racism.
“The president does not believe that — that the criticism comes based on the color of his skin,” Gibbs said. “We understand that people have disagreements with some of the decisions that we've made and some of the extraordinary actions that had to be undertaken by this administration and previous administrations to stabilize our financial system, to ensure viability of our domestic auto industry.”
“I don't — I don't think that, you know, the president does not believe that it's based on the color of his skin,” he continued.
Gibbs later added that the president “does not believe that the majority of this” is grounded in racism.”
The argument just got settled.
17 September 2009
at 4:07 a.m.
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Mixolydian (Anonymous) says…
That headline needs fixed:
Mixolydian suggests Carter outburst ‘based on senility’
For the record, Wilson didn't call the president a name he said the president performed an act..i.e., he lied. Unlike the multitude of democrat representatives and senators who took to the floors of congress with the C-Span microphone and called Bush a liar, Wilson did it to the president's face.
Sheesh, judge someone by the content of their character and you're labeled a racist.
Let's all join hands with the race baiters and shout as one…”Keep racism alive!”
17 September 2009
at 6:32 a.m.
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TomShewmon (Tom Shewmon) says…
Might as well get used to the race game.
“Mr. Holder told The Washington Post in 1996 that his answer was to pull out a paper he always carries in his wallet, containing a quote he admires that says a black man's “race defines him more particularly than anything else. Black people have a common cause that requires attending to.” In case that is not disconcerting enough in its own right, Mr. Holder elaborated: “It really says that … I am not the tall U.S. Attorney, I am not the thin U.S. Attorney. I am the black U.S. Attorney…. There's a common cause that bonds the black U.S. Attorney with the black criminal or the black doctor with the black homeless person.” ………………………..
“Put another way, does Mr. Holder believe that “the common cause that bonds the black U.S. Attorney with the black criminal” is stronger than the cause of equal justice under law? By the evidence so far, he might.”
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2…
(laughter)
17 September 2009
at 7:26 a.m.
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tony88 (Anonymous) says…
looks like invictus has rejoined us… he just can't help chiming in when race is the topic.
17 September 2009
at 9:12 a.m.
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porch_person (Anonymous) says…
jaywalker,
Do you think that the “white race” and “white culture is under going genocide as JamesUnruh claims?
Tell me, what constitutes the “white race”? I'd like to get caught up the current “racial purity” parameters.
(laughter)
Nothing like arguing with a bunch of …….
17 September 2009
at 9:29 a.m.
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porch_person (Anonymous) says…
Marion,
Obama *has* to deny that there is no racism in opposition to his policies, policies which include making sure people have something as “malignant” as proper health care.
Racist rednecks don't want to think that they are racist rednecks, even when it can't be more obvious. All Obama would be doing would be offending people he is trying to get to think of themselves as “Americans”.
Just in the last twenty four hours, we've read a post here which states that the white race and white culture are enduring “genocide”. We've had a person here who thinks that “nappy headed hoes” is ok, even though Don Imus lost his job for nine months for saying it.
Impossible to claim that there is no racism in opposition to Obama. Obama has to make nice and you know it.
17 September 2009
at 9:33 a.m.
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TomShewmon (Tom Shewmon) says…
“Impossible to claim that there is no racism in opposition to Obama.” -porchey
Impossible to claim there is.
(uproarious laughter)
17 September 2009
at 9:37 a.m.
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tbaker (Anonymous) says…
When was the last time President Carter was a net-positive force for the Democrats? If they know whats good for them they will shut this guy up - if they can.
The plain truth of the matter is he is making ordinary Americans angry by stating and/or implying disagreement with President Obama is somehow inherently racist. This cannot help but reflect poorly on President Obama and cause him to fall further in the approval poles - approval he needs to get anything done in congress. Law makers do not stick their necks out for unpopular Presidents.
BTW - Thanks Jaywalker.
17 September 2009
at 9:42 a.m.
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bookemdano (Anonymous) says…
It would go a long way in changing the perception that republicans harbor racial bias if more sensible republicans would speak out against bigoted speech, signs, etc. Of course the first amendment states that people can say whatever they want, but there is nothing wrong (and furthermore a lot to gain when it comes to perception in the eyes of independent/moderate voters) with denouncing and condemning racist speech when it happens. Criticsm of republicans from democrats is not going to carry nearly as much weight as it would coming from sensible conservative folks.
Even here on these boards—it seems to be only the liberal posters who are calling out posts here that demonstrate obvious racial bias. Why are republicans silent when the racists within their party open their mouths?
It is this “my party, right or wrong” stuff that needs to go by the wayside if we are ever going to have enlightened political discourse.
17 September 2009
at 9:48 a.m.
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porch_person (Anonymous) says…
TomShewmon,
You know, with your neighbors saying things like
“Openly celebrating the genocide of the white race and culture in America is apparently Pulitzer winning journalism these days. ” – JamesUnruh
It's impossible to deny that someone commenting on a column noting racist opposition to Barack Obama isn't racist.
Your own colleagues defeat your argument, TomShewmon.
Tell me, Tom, do you think the “white race” and “white culture” are enduring genocide?
Huuuuummmmmm?
(laughter)
17 September 2009
at 9:51 a.m.
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porch_person (Anonymous) says…
tbaker,
“When was the last time President Carter was a net-positive force for the Democrats?” – tbaker
Maybe when he won the Nobel Peace Prize?
(laughter)
Have you heard of a thing called “Habitat for Humanity”?
(laughter)
Tell me, tbaker, do you think the “white race” and “white culture” are enduring genocide?
Huuuuummmmmm?
(laughter)
17 September 2009
at 10:04 a.m.
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tony88 (Anonymous) says…
what is “white culture” anyway?
rampant obesity and meth addiction?
suburban sprawl?
destruction of the environment?
reality television?
these things are worth preserving!
17 September 2009
at 10:13 a.m.
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JackKats (Anonymous) says…
I am mad as hell about the way our country is going. I do not think the President is qualified to do the job, his policies are hurting America, and he has an agenda that will change the America as I know it. Does this make me a racist to say these things? Consider the following:
I am worried about our country going into the red with the highest deficits in the history of our nation.
I am worried for the effect the policies will have on our grey haired, older Americans.
I am patriotic and love the ol Red, White and Blue.
I am worried about the strength of the green back losing its value.
I am worried about the red blood that will be spilled with a weak approach to national defense and politicizing the wars we are in.
I am worried about the black tea that is being left to others to drain from the gulf while we prevent further exploration and believe green is the answer.
I am worried the treatment of those Vets who have earned the purple hearts through their sacrifice.
I am worried about the yellow cowardly media that has self serving interests and agendas rather than honest reporting as in days past.
I am worried about the white flag that our enemies see the President wave in his apology tour, his policies and his “compassion” for terrorists captives.
I am worried about the bright future for this county because of decisions today will have the next generation to have to pick up the tab.
I am worried about the black out or lack of transparency that is shrouding the Government.
I don’t like the policies, lies, shady dealings, direction, spending etc, that comes from the White House’s current occupant.
I am worried for America, from the white beached shores, through the blue ridge mountains, past the amber waves of grain, and to the next blue shining sea.
I am worried about the education system and the building of the gray matter in our youth.
So pick another color when describing my concerns and don’t merely dismiss my worries by a saying it is because there is a black man in the white house.
17 September 2009
at 10:31 a.m.
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JackKats (Anonymous) says…
The political parties have understood for a long time that if the people of America can be divided and bicker amongst ourselves than they can run rough shod over us and do as they please.
WE have been divided by race and every time the race card is played the division deepens.
WE have been divided by political party and many defend their party without thought but only by affiliation.
WE have been divided into the haves and have nots.
WE have been divided into the rural and city dwellers.
WE have been divided into the religious and non religious.
WE have been divided by geographical stereotypes.
WE have been divided by nationality.
WE have been divided by our education.
WE have been divided, torn apart, and divvied up. For the soul purpose so those in Washington can grab more power.
The dividing doesn't stop along party lines. The cutting of the pie has continued to even cause more division with in each party. A house divided can not stand.
The current statement by Jimmy Carter was another act of division and serves the purpose for which it was intended. IF you need any evidence, just go back and read the comments above that are filled with contempt, hatred, divisiveness, and bickering.
This division of the people will be the catalyst that will defeat American quicker than any single policy, ideology, outside enemies, or money spent. This is the root of the problem today in America.
17 September 2009
at 10:50 a.m.
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Satirical (Anonymous) says…
bookemdano…
Which posts “demonstrate obvious racial bias?” Even though I am a conservative, and not affiliated with the Republican party, I would be happy to “call out” and challenge posts which “demonstrate obvious racial bias.” I believe both racist remarks and unjustly playing the race fear card have no place in civil public dialogue. Both tactics play on fear and stereotype.
Perhaps, quid pro quo, you could assist me in answering why more democrats weren't calling out the left-wing loons during GWB's two terms? In fact one of them was an Obama czar (until recently when Glenn Beck exposed him).
17 September 2009
at 11 a.m.
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JackKats (Anonymous) says…
Just because we have differences does not mean we have to mean we divided.
17 September 2009
at 11:01 a.m.
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JackKats (Anonymous) says…
Let me try that again..Just because we have differences does not mean that we have to be divided.
17 September 2009
at 11:07 a.m.
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porch_person (Anonymous) says…
JackKats,
You're the perfect Republican voter.
You don't want division but you've already decided Barack Obama isn't qualified to do his job. What's hilarious is that one of your alternatives couldn't tell you what a Vice-President did, twice.
All someone has to do is win the race to whatever symbol will manipulate you and you're with them, irregardless of what reality reports.
You voted for alcoholic George W. Bush over Silver Star winner John Kerry because you thought that spending time on a bar stool in Alabama was more patriotic than playing Apocalypse Now for real and killing the enemy in Vietnam. George W. Bush waves “God and the Flag” at you and like a Pavlov's Dog, you say “that's the guy for me.”
You voted for John McCain over Barack Obama because John McCain choose a Barbie Doll who couldn't tell you what a Vice-President does. Barack Obama graduated as the President of the Harvard Law Review and taught Constitutional Law for over a decade yet you chose the candidate who didn't know something I knew before I left junior high.
I'm not going to convince you of anything. Anyone who is this impervious to new information can't be swayed. Sarah Palin couldn't name any newspapers she read and the fact that you read LJ World means you're better informed than she is.
I can only point out items which might (I'm not hopeful) bring you to a point where you reexamine your prejudices but I truly feel you are “locked in”.
Please, feel free to supply more clinches and symbolism. Change is something you can't fight. We are going to improve and we are going to evolve.
17 September 2009
at 11:29 a.m.
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bookemdano (Anonymous) says…
I will make no apology for extremists of any stripe—I've said as much on these boards before. I think the reason more democrats didn't speak out against the loons is the same reason why republicans don't attack the racists in their midst—”my party, right or wrong”. THAT is the notion I am trying to fight against. We should be cleaning house in BOTH parties.
As for posts with racial bias, for starters you can look in this very thread—”JamesUnruh” has already been called out by other posters… just a sampling:
“You know Harlem was founded by dutch settlers? And all of New York for that matter (New Amsterdam). Are there alot of dutchmen there now?”
The thing about racism in the P.C. era is that it's no longer out in the open, “he's a dirty n****r!” stuff. People do say that kind of thing in confidence (I have heard it first-hand many times) but in public spheres it “bubbles up” under the surface.
A comment decrying that Harlem is no longer a stronghold of “white culture” smacks of racial bias, even if it doesn't carry the vitriol of “lynch 'em!”. It's still wrong, and should not be even passively tolerated in our society. People are free to make those kinds of statements in this country, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't be universally shamed for doing so.
There are plenty of other posts here on LJW that reek of racial bias. Some names that come to mind— BuenaVista, Invictus… there are definitely others. Howabout the conservative hero Glenn Beck who stated flat out that Obama has a deep-seated hatred for “white culture”. I just don't see how you can objectively argue that doesn't reflect racist attitudes.
It just feels like conservatives have blinders on their peripheral vision in regards to this issue. If a comment doesn't outright advocate burning crosses and lynchings then they don't notice any racial bias. I just don't see how an honest person can think that only 40 years removed from the civil rights era that racism just simply died out in the south. Fact is, many of the people that opposed that legislation and advocated for Jim Crow laws are still alive today. They're the ones on medicare and they're the ones who just “don't trust” this president. How can conservatives think that those millions of people just abandoned their racist beliefs when Johnson signed that legislation?
17 September 2009
at 11:29 a.m.
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tbaker (Anonymous) says…
Ah porch…right on time.
I'll not deny Carter has some admirable personal achievements, but he also has quite a resume of failure as well, but thats not the point of this discussion.
The man is a pleasant distraction at best. When he says things like he did he becomes a liability to the Democratic Party in general, and the President in particular. He doesn't help the President by implying ordinary, decent Americans who happen to have an honest difference of opinion with the President do so because they are racist.
This is absurd on it's face and it makes people angry. It moves the national discussion off of health care and other pressing problems, and centers it on an argument no reasonable person could defend. It forces the President to devote energy towards distancing themselves from the divisive comments of the former President. Baseless charges of racism diminishes our President's stature and makes him less effective as a leader - which isn't good for any of us.
Carter needs to shut up and go back to the peanut farm before he does any more damage.
17 September 2009
at 11:30 a.m.
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tony88 (Anonymous) says…
jackkats, if i didn't know better, i would say your posts were a satire of glen beck, but in reality, they are merely a parroting of his irrational rants. i'm not a big supporter of this president (he's too far right), but if you weren't saying those same things about the previous president, you're head was in the sand. talk about creating the biggest deficit. “lies, shady dealings”? do you not remember the past 8 years? c'mon
17 September 2009
at 11:37 a.m.
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porch_person (Anonymous) says…
Satirical,
“Which posts “demonstrate obvious racial bias?” Even though I am a conservative, and not affiliated with the Republican party, I would be happy to “call out” and challenge posts which “demonstrate obvious racial bias.” I believe both racist remarks and unjustly playing the race fear card have no place in civil public dialogue. Both tactics play on fear and stereotype.” – Satirical
“A race war? There has been race related war in this country for 400 years, before that tribal war. Humans are in a constant state of conflict. Pointing out a racist reality does not make one a racist.” – JamesUnruh
“Openly celebrating the genocide of the white race and culture in America is apparently Pulitzer winning journalism these days. ” – JamesUnruh
There you go…..I could go mining for days on this one. Notajayhawk has said some real whoppers.
17 September 2009
at 11:41 a.m.
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tbaker (Anonymous) says…
Attention Posters: The highest form of praise found on this blog is when porchy ignores you.
Thanks porch!
17 September 2009
at 11:53 a.m.
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porch_person (Anonymous) says…
tbaker,
Employing hyperbole in opposition to Jimmy Carter's statement of the obvious is dishonest.
(A) Is there racism behind some of the opposition to Barack Obama? Of course there is.
(B) Is every man, woman and child in America racist? Of course not.
(C) Is every man, woman and child in America opposing Barack Obama? Not if current poll numbers are any evidence. 53% of America supports Barack Obama. 43% disapprove.
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Is it dishonest to say that Jimmy Carter is referring to the 53% of Americans who support Barack Obama?
Yes.
Is it dishonest to say that Jimmy Carter is referring to 100% of the 43% of Americans who don't approve of Barack Obama?
Yes.
Are you making these misrepresentations deliberately?
Yes.
17 September 2009
at 12:11 p.m.
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JackKats (Anonymous) says…
Porch, 15 times you said “you” or referred to me in your response and have decided what I think and why I do what I do. Do you really believe that you know me that well? Maybe you should spend more time examining yourself and less time on what I may or may not think. Thus you have painted a picture of who I am, in you mind, making a chance for any real discussion impossible. Are you not demonstrating a form of racism in deciding who another person is with a limited knowledge of them or a basis on which to draw this conclusion? Interesting that you have drawn such a conclusion of who I am without knowing me.
Tony, I believe that the slide of our country towards socialism has been oiled by both parties and we the people have helped by allowing it. As for the last president, he was too far left for me. I do have some criticisms of what he did or did not do as I have with the current admin but mostly, with congress and the roll they have played. We obviously are on different ends of the spectrum. But if we did have some dialogue and could get past our differences, I bet we would find some common ground along the way. This is my hope regardless of the extremes we both have admitted in our posts.
17 September 2009
at 12:37 p.m.
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porch_person (Anonymous) says…
JackKats,
“Are you not demonstrating a form of racism in deciding who another person is with a limited knowledge of them or a basis on which to draw this conclusion” –- JackKats
That's not what racism is but I'm not surprised you don't know that. My criticism of you was your uncritical conservativism.
Let give you some hard numbers:
The United States spends more, per capita, on health care than any other country. What has this accomplished? According to the United Nations, we are 33rd in infant mortality rate. According to our own CIA, we're 46th. You may think that result is “kicking a$$” but that's a problem.
We also have a significant part of our population that doesn't have health insurance.
To put this into an automotive metaphor, we have a car that costs more than any other car and the car is worse than 32 / 45 other cars which cost less.
It's not “un-American” or “divisive” to recognize that problem and seek to fix it.
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Rep. Joe Wilson said that Barack Obama was lying when he said that the new universal health care bill would include undocumented aliens. Joe Wilson was lying, Obama was correct. http://www.factcheck.org/2009/09/obam…
Rep. Joe Wilson also claimed that he is an “immigration lawyer”. That is a lie.
It's not “un-American” or “divisive” to know that and note that.
========
Just on this blog alone, we have people who claim that “white culture” and “the white race” are enduring “genocide”.
Naahhhhh, no racism at all.
You want to help us raise the standard of living in America? You want to help us get out of the hole George W. Bush put us in? You want to learn more information. I'll be happy to oblige but your long posts were just flag waving. Obama isn't your problem.
17 September 2009
at 12:56 p.m.
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fletch (Anonymous) says…
Why are there more red stripes on the American flag than white stripes? Did Obama change this? Is he trying to eliminate the whites from this country? I'm just saying….
17 September 2009
at 1:08 p.m.
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JackKats (Anonymous) says…
Porch,
There are ways to fix health care without having the government take over. But once that line is crossed there is no turning back. Are all the standards of medical care and infant mortality due to the millions who do not have health insurance? How many infants die due to drug use by the mother, obesity, or other causes? How much of the problems are due to cultural practices and the ways in which we live? Genetics? Diet? Exercise?
Do you really believe that the costs will come down and the care be better if the government gets involved? Is the projected debt sustainable? Is the high rate of increase we currently have sustainable? Is it fair to offer a public option across America and still have limited choices in each state? Is that really competition? Are there not regulatory practices imposed by the government that have added to the problem?
Truly there are other answers and ways to approach the problem than what is being proposed.
As to what Joe said about the president lying, the fact that the loop holes for qualifying for the public options was addressed the following days after the speech proves there was a problem.There would have been coverage available to illegals.
And I know that racism in its basic form is based on race or cultural differences and feelings of superiority from such differences. My view is that there are other forms of discrimination and feelings of superiority that can lead another human to totally dismiss vast numbers of others. I say that any form of difference one uses to dismiss an entire segment of the population is wrong and is just another branch of the tree from which racism grows.
The hole that has been dug has been being excavated for a long time. To simply blame Bush is very simplistic. And to believe that all the policies of the current President will fix the problems is naive. When you are in a hole, the first thing to do to get out of it, is to stop digging.
Let me give you a car analogy. Do you go in to buy a new car just because you need the breaks fixed on the one you have?
And yes I was flag waving and yes, I do believe that people of American are great, and are at their greatest when the government is limited.
17 September 2009
at 1:16 p.m.
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tbaker (Anonymous) says…
Jack - get used to it. Porch operates on partisan stereotype and assumption. He is impervious to facts and critical reasoning. Its rare to find a string of more than ten words from him that do not contain at least one intellectual fallacy, but sometimes he/she is funny, and I enjoy the mindless, but witty ravings for what they are. To wit (prove a negative) since racism exists in some form in the US, it is beneficial for a former President to accuse ordinary Americans of it. Come on.
You're right about the country. We've abandoned our constitution. Our federal government has far exceeded it's authority on a great many things and we are the worse for it - past Presidents most certainly included.
Far too many people and politicians proceed on the assumption that problem X (health care being a good example) is so big, so complex, and so intractable that only the power of the federal government can solve it. They completely ignore the federal government's 100% failure rate on large, entitlement programs. They completely ignore the mountain of evidence which clearly illustrates that the federal government is largely responsible for causing the problem in the first place. They completely ignore how our constitution and our individual liberties are being trampled in the process. They completely ignore the premise our country was founded on, that the sovereignty of the individual shall not be usurped by the government, that government was instituted in the first place to protect our inalienable liberties. What disturbs me the most is the number of people who reject the idea that ordinary people simply lack the wherewithal to pursue their own interests and take care of themselves. They proceed with some perverted form of self-righteous altruism, convinced the ordinary American is a hapless dolt, unable to cope, exploited and vulnerable in need of some government foster parent to guide them through the impenetrable mysteries of life. They reject the idea that unencumbered by government interference, free people always have, can now, and always will develop solutions for themselves far better than any bureaucrat could dream up, and not at the expense of others. They believe in the supremacy of the state. They see our government as what makes American great, not it's people. That sickens me.
I rant therefore I am.
17 September 2009
at 1:37 p.m.
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Satirical (Anonymous) says…
Bookemdano…
First, I think there is a difference between establishing facts which discuss difference between the races, and drawing stereotypical conclusion from them.
The statement you quote from JamesUnruh is simply a historical account and by itself isn’t racist. Now perhaps he made additional racial statements, or it was clearly racist in context, but standing alone, stating the history of New York isn’t inherently racist.
For example, citing a statistic that 70% (not sure of the exact percentage but it is high) of African-American children are born out of wedlock is a fact. Going further and making a stereotypical conclusion such as, this mean African-Americans men don’t care about their children, is racist. However, I think it goes both ways. There are many studies which indicate statistical difference between the races, where African-Americans are disadvantaged. Many liberal politicians try to use this to their advantage and pretend the are willing to protect them, by claiming the difference must be a product of racism by a white majority. To draw such a stereotypical conclusion is also racist. This is how democrats often get the majority of the African-American vote; by alleging the other side is racist, and the democrats want to help them.
I disagree racism is no longer out in the open, but I do agree it is less open so now than in the past. You seem to assume that lack of open racism doesn’t prove a change in the amount of racism but merely in the form. While I agree that is a possibility, I think there has been a large change in the aggregate amount of racism, even in the last 20 years.
I am not even sure what “white culture” is. I agree using that term sounds racist. I am not aware of Glenn Beck ever stating the phrase of which you attribute to him. If you could provide the entire quote I would appreciate it. Also, calling out people on this forum without supporting evidence won’t convince me they are racist.
One reason it may seem that conservatives have “racial blinders” on, is because democrats constantly play the race card when they have little or no evidence, and conservatives are always playing defense. Democrats have trained conservatives to look at allegedly racists statements skeptically and give people the benefit of the doubt, because most of their claims, like Jimmy Carters, are baseless. Perhaps if Democrats didn’t use the fear tactic and overplay the race card, conservatives wouldn’t be so skeptical, and more easily recognize racist comments.
17 September 2009
at 1:39 p.m.
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Satirical (Anonymous) says…
Cont’d…
I don’t think anyone is under a delusion that racism doesn’t exist. The question is to what degree, and whether a particular comment is indeed racist or not. Democrats, especially the Al Sharptons and Jesse Jacksons of the world, benefit both personally and politically when they allege racism is higher than it actually is, since they portray themselves and the liberator of all African-Americans. Why would you believe someone, or a party or has an incentive to claim racism whenever possible? Instead we should think for ourselves. Even Obama himself stated that the fact he was elected POTUS, shows racism is at the lowest point in our nation’s history.
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“Fact is, many of the people that opposed that legislation and advocated for Jim Crow laws are still alive today.” – bookemdano
I don’t think “many” of them are alive today.
–––––––—
“They're the ones on medicare and they're the ones who just “don't trust” this president.” – bookemdano
You seem to be making the fallacy democrats, and Jimmy Carter, want you to make. Jimmy Carter wants people to believe that those who oppose Obamacare have bad motives, therefore you should suspend rational thinking and not question Obama’s policies or whether Obamacare is sound policy. Even if you could prove someone was a racist, doesn’t mean they don’t have legitimate reason to be skeptical of the president’s proposals. Or is dissent no longer patriotic when an African-American is in office?
––––––––
“How can conservatives think that those millions of people just abandoned their racist beliefs when Johnson signed that legislation?” – bookemdano
This touches on two issues. First, whether someone who once support racist legislation can ever change their opinion. Second, whether racism is still a major problem in this country, as certain democrats would want you to believe for personal and political gain; or whether racism still exists, in some areas more than others, but recognize we have come a long way and racism is problem, but not a major one that should require us to suspend rational thinking whenever someone plays the race fear card. I tend to believe the latter in both cases.
17 September 2009
at 1:44 p.m.
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TomShewmon (Tom Shewmon) says…
Boris, whatya mean, Obama has taken the lead. Guy works fast.
17 September 2009
at 1:50 p.m.
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TomShewmon (Tom Shewmon) says…
Porch-agese Man-O-War, I think Democrats are textbook racists. They picked up on Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson's gig from day one. They have built their party on it and they have trademarked racism. They've perfected racism on the campaign trail and on the floor of the house.
(eye-popping laughter)
17 September 2009
at 1:57 p.m.
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tbaker (Anonymous) says…
Bravo Boris!
Mr. Peanut has gone from irrelevant and incompetent to down right dangerous for the Democrats. They need to wise up and find him a 3rd world country to go visit while the adults sort out the mess he's causing.
I agree wholeheartedly that racism does in fact exist in this country, but plain old common sense says it can't, as Mr. Carter suggests, be responsible for ALL of the opposition to President Obama's plans. Come on.
He should know, after all, that racism can't explain why Americans don't like run away liberalism. It certainly doesn't explain why he lost 44 states to Reagan.
17 September 2009
at 2:41 p.m.
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bookemdano (Anonymous) says…
Satirical:
Beck said: “This president has exposed himself as a guy over and over and over again who has a deep-seated hatred for white people or the white culture.”
You can google it if you don't believe me. He said it and as of yesterday his TV ratings are at an all-time high. Mind you I am not trying to establish causation—only correlation. Evidently a lot of conservatives are either drawn to his racist perspective, or at the very least, tolerate it while liking something else about him.
RE: your comments on JamesUnruh. You only need look at the other statements he has made in this thread to find all the context you need. He wasn't just stating a statistic—he was stating that there has been a “genocide” on white culture in this country. I have to think blinders would be required to not see prejudicial undertones to a statement like that.
As for other posters I had named. I simply do not have the time right now to search through peoples' posting histories to pull quotes out for the sake of argument. You can look at their message history if you desire and see more of what I am talking about. Or if you want to put the burden on me you'll have to wait a while (or wait for someone else to do it) because I lack the time today.
But that goes back to my point about these blinders. If, as you admit, you've been conditioned to be skeptical of racist claims due to the “race card”, then you aren't likely to pick up on these comments when they do occur (and they DO occur). It comes down to a cause and effect thing I think. Democrats play the race card because they don't see conservatives doing anything to condemn obvious racial bias in their own flock. And republicans are blind to much of the racism out there because democrats “cried wolf” too many times. So who will be the first to stand up and stop that vicious cycle?
For me it's akin to that old adage about criminal justice in this country—”better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer”. Even if the race card gets played in situations where it should not, it is better to let that happen then not to condemn racism where it truly does occur. Fact is, it is going to take a long time before black people are “made whole” in this country. Even if the laws no longer discriminate, centuries of prejudice and worse take their toll and will take many generations to wash away. Hell, my father talks about visiting the deep south in his youth and seeing the “colored” water fountains and bathrooms. This was just in my parents' generation! I think to argue that enough time has passed for that stuff to be gone from our collective consciousness would be laughable if it wasn't so tragic.
Alas I am out of time for now and will respond to the rest of your points later.
17 September 2009
at 2:48 p.m.
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Jimo (Anonymous) says…
JackKats - that's quite a list of “worries.” Did these worries begin on January 20th? Perhaps around noon at Eastern Standard Time?
I'm sure you'll say no. But is there any real evidence of that you can provide? Could you detail a bit more the counter actions you took over the last decade to oppose the last regime? You realize you can't honestly have those worries without being diametrically opposed to most of what's been happening these last years? You realize that there have in fact been people out working to denounce these wayward, at times illegal, at time unconstitutional, actions, most of whom you seem to oppose rather than support?
I'm not saying that you're not the exception to the rule, the rational coherent, fair-minded opponent of the current Democratic government. I am saying that when you let into the tent the irrational, gibberish spouting, partisan always critics, it becomes almost impossible to separate out the diamond in the rough exception. Might I suggest you have no chance of effectively addressing the worries you have that require opposition to Pres. Obama until after first expelling the trash in the GOP?
17 September 2009
at 3:36 p.m.
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beatrice (Anonymous) says…
tom: “I think Democrats are textbook racists.”
I'm a Democrat, and I think your painting with such a broad brush to be not only simple, but repugnant. How can you possibly criticize Carter for his comments when you go even further with your own? Reality check Tom.
tbaker: “Greed is a vice / lack of virtue. How does one envy something like that?”
Greed is another word for envy. Someone who is greedy for money is envious of those who have it and will do anything to get it.
17 September 2009
at 4:22 p.m.
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Satirical (Anonymous) says…
Bookemdano…
After reading Beck’s entire quote and the context, I think his statement was definitely ignorant but not necessarily racist. Again, I think any reference to “white culture” is stupid. However, Beck was calling Obama a racist. One can call someone else a racist without themselves being racist. This was in the context of the Henry Gates arrest, where Obama assumed a racial motive before he knew the facts. This is a common problem with many democrats.
Back to my previous post, I think pointing out a difference isn’t racist, but stereotyping, or in Obama’s case making assumptions based on those stereotypes as to a person’s motivation, is racist. I don’t think Obama is racist, but I think his comment after the Gates arrest was racist. Beck was calling him out on it. If people like Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson can continually claim this person or that person is racist and not themselves also be racist, then I think Beck can also be given that deference as well. We have to get passed this concept that white people and black people should be held to different standards when it comes to racist comments.
As far as conservatives liking Glenn Beck, I think it is because he says what’s on his mind, even when he puts his foot in his mouth. When Bush was in office, Beck was constantly criticizing him, using the same antics, but I didn’t hear the Democrats complaining about him then.
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“…then you aren't likely to pick up on these comments when they do occur (and they DO occur)” – book
I know they occur. But I also know we live in the 21st century and not in Mississippi in 1965. I also know that racism can occur both ways. So, when I hear a democrat claiming something is racist, I am extremely skeptical because I realize s/he is probably using it for political or personal gain.; or a liberal who has been pre-programmed to cry wolf anytime anyone says something about race which could be perceived in a negative light, even though that was not the intention nor is it racist on its face.
I agree with the adage you quote that it is “better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer.” However, I arrive at an entirely different outcome. The guilty person is the person who says something racist. The innocent person is the one whose comment is objectively not racist. So when a democrat claims someone is being racist, it is better to give the person the benefit of the doubt and let 10 subjectively racist comments escape, than to punish the one innocent person whose comment was objectively not racist. Because calling someone a racist can devastate a person's career and life.
17 September 2009
at 4:23 p.m.
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Satirical (Anonymous) says…
Cont'd:
I think African-Americans will be made whole much sooner by following Obama’s lead (who disagrees with Jimmy Carter), than following the lead of people like Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson, who want to be a perpetual victim. I disagree with a lot of Obama’s policies, but one thing I have said repeatedly is that I admire the fact he often (with the exception of Gates arrest) refuses to play in the race baiting game.
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“I think to argue that enough time has passed for that stuff to be gone from our collective consciousness would be laughable if it wasn't so tragic.” – bookemdano
I personally hope it is never gone from our collective consciousness. I think we must remember the past so we never return there. The difference as I see it, is that many democrats play the race card and use fear to make people think that if you oppose their agenda that we will return to those times. I think the correct approach is to remember where we were, figure out where we are now, and talk about the best way to get where we want to go. I don’t think the Jesse Jacksons of this world, who only know how to play the victim and think the government is the cause and solution to most race problems, will get us to our destination.
I appreciate your willingness to engage in a civil discussion and enjoy reading different points of view (especially when they are well articulated).
17 September 2009
at 4:31 p.m.
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jayhawklawrence (Anonymous) says…
I can't figure out why one politician calling another politician a liar is such big news.
Isn't that what they do for a living?
17 September 2009
at 4:42 p.m.
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yourworstnightmare (Anonymous) says…
Racism is nearly impossible to prove, just as any motivation is nearly impossible to prove.
A simple question to all of those who deny any racial basis in the vehement and angry opposition to Obama:
Do you think white against black racism exists at all in any form in this country. Yes or no.
17 September 2009
at 4:47 p.m.
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yourworstnightmare (Anonymous) says…
Satirical admitted: “So, when I hear a democrat claiming something is racist, I am extremely skeptical because I realize s/he is probably using it for political or personal gain.; or a liberal who has been pre-programmed to cry wolf anytime anyone says something about race which could be perceived in a negative light, even though that was not the intention nor is it racist on its face.”
You are here admitting that you have a personal bias against any claim of racism not based on the merits of the case but on your perception that it is politically motivated.
Your biased perception against it doesn't change whether or not the act was racist.
There is no doubt that racism has been demagogued by those on the left, just as it is now being demagogued by those on the right.
The question: does white against black racism exist at all or in any form in America?
17 September 2009
at 5:24 p.m.
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Satirical (Anonymous) says…
Yourworstnightmare…
You are putting words in my mouth. I did not say I have personal bias against “any claim of racism not based on the merits of the case.” I said I am skeptical when a Democrat claims there is racism, based on their track record of constantly crying wolf. That does not mean I take this view with every claim of racism, nor does it mean I don’t look at the merits of the case. Far from it, I am very sensitive to actual racism since some my nieces (who, like Obama are half white and half black) have told me some of their school mates have called them racial names. I look at the statement and the context and always judge for myself.
––––––––
“The question: does white against black racism exist at all or in any form in America?” – yourworstnightmare
I have already answered this question multiple times in this thread. But let me ask you one; do you believe most of the conservatives who oppose Obama or Obamacare are racist, or are motivated by racism?
I think that some of them definitely are racist, or at least carry racist signs, such as the one of Obama as an African witch-doctor. But the problem is many liberals (see MSNBC) want the average American to think that insanity represents the typical conservative, so you will suspend rational thinking, when that clearly is not the case. There are loons on both sides. That doesn’t mean rational thinking and debating an issue must stop. These claims of widespread racism are a side-show and a fear tactic which only fools the simple minded and Obama acolytes. I can guarantee you there are far fewer Republicans that are racist, than Democrats who think Bush is a war criminal.
17 September 2009
at 5:31 p.m.
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porch_person (Anonymous) says…
“There are ways to fix health care without having the government take over. But once that line is crossed there is no turning back.” – JackKats
The government is not “taking over”. All current and future health insurance companies will still be there. That the government would offer a cheaper option for health care for all should gladden you. If that cheaper option puts insurance companies that charge more and offer less, the why are you arguing against it? It seems to work in many other countries.
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“Are all the standards of medical care and infant mortality due to the millions who do not have health insurance? How many infants die due to drug use by the mother, obesity, or other causes? How much of the problems are due to cultural practices and the ways in which we live? Genetics? Diet? Exercise?” – JacksKat
Good questions but there is no single qualifier that justifies our poor outcomes in health care. Again, you're trying to excuse poor performance in an effort to improve that performance.
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“Do you really believe that the costs will come down and the care be better if the government gets involved?” – JacksKat
We're already at “most expensive”, we can't do any worse and projections are we'll hit 22% of per capita income soon. Care in most other counties with universal coverage is better by outcome and cheaper. They have a better mousetrap.
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“Is it fair to offer a public option across America and still have limited choices in each state? Is that really competition? Are there not regulatory practices imposed by the government that have added to the problem?” –- JacksKat
You answer your own question. There currently *is* limited choice in each state. This is by design. It's easy to control the market with a limited number of companies who are smart enough to not cut each others throats. The reason why most insurance companies don't get license to write in a state is because of questionable business practices or a bad deal for the State's population.
Sebelius did a hell of a job for us in that department.
(cont)
17 September 2009
at 5:32 p.m.
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porch_person (Anonymous) says…
(cont)
“Truly there are other answers and ways to approach the problem than what is being proposed.” –- JacksKat
Have you read of any alternatives from the Republican side of the aisle? I haven't either. No, they're fighting to maintain the status quo.
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“As to what Joe said about the president lying, the fact that the loop holes for qualifying for the public options was addressed the following days after the speech proves there was a problem.There would have been coverage available to illegals.” – JacksKat
Rep. Joe Wilson lied. Get used to it. There is no perspective where his actions were acceptable.
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“The hole that has been dug has been being excavated for a long time. To simply blame Bush is very simplistic. And to believe that all the policies of the current President will fix the problems is naive. When you are in a hole, the first thing to do to get out of it, is to stop digging.” –- JacksKat
Bush put a lot on our “credit card”. To criticize the current President (who has done a hell of a job reversing this Depression), tell people to ignore the wild spending of our previous President and recommend returning to the status quo ignores history. And those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it.
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“And yes I was flag waving and yes, I do believe that people of American are great, and are at their greatest when the government is limited.” – JacksKat
I'm just as proudly American as you are. I believe that we are at our greatest when we pull together as “Americans”, not “conservatives”: and “liberals”. You'll remember that we were at our finest at a time when we were engaged in a World War, when “government” was most engaged in our lives.
17 September 2009
at 5:57 p.m.
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TomShewmon (Tom Shewmon) says…
Yourworstnightmare's latent racism showed today.
“A simple question to all of those who deny any racial basis in the vehement and angry opposition to Obama:”-
Should have been correctly worded as:
“A simple question to all of those who deny any racial basis in the vehement and angry opposition to Obama's policies:”
(earthquakish laughter)
“I think it's a remarkable document…but I think it is an imperfect document. And I think it is a document that reflects some deep flaws in American culture, the colonial culture, nascent at that time.” -Barack Obama
(low-level, uncomfortable, nervous, sorta just-saw-your-puppy-poop-on-your-friends-new-carpet-laughter)
17 September 2009
at 5:58 p.m.
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Pilgrim2 (Anonymous) says…
Why is it those who claim to want to see color the least are always the ones who see it the most?
17 September 2009
at 6:01 p.m.
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TomShewmon (Tom Shewmon) says…
Yes, white against black racism exists.
Yourworstnightmare, does black against white racism exists? And if not, why not?
17 September 2009
at 6:05 p.m.
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TomShewmon (Tom Shewmon) says…
Good question Pilgrim.
I tend to think it's a classic case of a very common psychological tendency called: “projection”.
Like a husband who has a lustful heart, and constantly accuses his wife of cheating.
17 September 2009
at 6:39 p.m.
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RogueThrill (Anonymous) says…
I live in a world where I can think carter is stupid and also believe that a lot of tea baggers are motivated by latent racism.
I can also dislike white people because plenty of those I share a race with are embarrassing as hell. You are not a credit to any of us.
17 September 2009
at 8:51 p.m.
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TJ_in_Lawrence (Anonymous) says…
I wish Carter would go back to the old folks home and stay there. Everytime they change his bed pan and he escapes, we have to read about his delushional ramblings for days. My God, if Jimmy Carter speaks for the democratic party, they need to get some new leaders!
17 September 2009
at 9:04 p.m.
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beobachter (Anonymous) says…
Most people have a lot more respect for Carter than Bush will ever garner.
17 September 2009
at 9:35 p.m.
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TomShewmon (Tom Shewmon) says…
“Most people have a lot more respect for Carter than Bush will ever garner.”- beoB
And how long did it take for Carter to get someone to listen to his drivel? As with Carter, give it a decade or two, and that'll change after Obama, Pelosi and Reid have ripped the constitution and America to complete shreds and is desperately trying to recover.
17 September 2009
at 9:44 p.m.
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beobachter (Anonymous) says…
tom, how many centuries will it take for any single person to respect you?
17 September 2009
at 11:20 p.m.
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witchfindergeneral (Anonymous) says…
Tom Shewmon says…
” […] after Obama, Pelosi and Reid have ripped the constitution and America to complete shreds and is desperately trying to recover.”
Too bad Bush Jr. beat them to it. The real question is “how long will it take to recover from Bush's myriad mistakes?” His is a legacy of debt, death (Iraqi), deceit, and embarrassment. I seriously doubt Obama or the Democrats will do anything as politically, economically, or physically devastating as starting an unnecessary war based on blatant lies.
17 September 2009
at 11:21 p.m.
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barrypenders (Anonymous) says…
Mariel Carter, Jimmy's bastard, dubious cousin, made Miami a colorful place to visit. Thank Darwin, Castro had the warmth to send his prisoners and mental patients in by boat to enlightend Mariel.
Darwin bless you all
18 September 2009
at 4:11 p.m.
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beatrice (Anonymous) says…
“I wish Carter would go back to the old folks home and stay there. Everytime they change his bed pan and he escapes, we have to read about his delushional ramblings for days.” … wrote the John McCain supporter. Brilliant.
Tom: “does black against white racism exists?”
Of course it exists. Please show me an example of anyone on these boards claiming otherwise. Anyone. Even once. Why even ask such a ridiculous question when nobody has ever suggested that such a thing doesn't exist or that only Whites can be racist? Nobody has ever stated that here, so what point are you trying to make?
18 September 2009
at 8:42 p.m.
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sunny (Anonymous) says…
Carter WAS the worst president…until now that is!
18 September 2009
at 11:47 p.m.
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ivalueamerica (Anonymous) says…
Really, Sunny…you realize you are in the minority.
The majority still approve of Obama, but a vast majority considers Bush one of the worst ever.
But I realize the facts are counter to your opinion, so please ignore them and carry on.
19 September 2009
at 12:05 p.m.
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beatrice (Anonymous) says…
Sunny can't be for real, can s/he?
20 September 2009
at 2:35 a.m.
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Marion (Marion Lynn) says…
Barack Hussein Obama has already said that this is not about racism.
Do you not believe your prophet?
20 September 2009
at 8:37 a.m.
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TomShewmon (Tom Shewmon) says…
“The concerns of Obama aides deepened last month, when the governor, speaking on a radio talk show in New York, suggested that criticism of him was racially motivated and that Mr. Obama would soon suffer similar attacks. Mr. Obama’s advisers, who have long sought to defuse the issue of race, found the comments inflammatory and expressed their displeasure directly to the Paterson camp.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/20/nyr…