‘Green tag’ purchase totals nearly $8,600 / LJWorld.com

Archive for Wednesday, October 28, 2009

October 28, 2009

Commissioners unanimously agreed to spend nearly $8,600 to purchase “green tags” to offset about 3 percent of the city government’s total electric usage.

The green tags are a way of businesses or organizations to support renewable energy options. Fees for green tags are paid to renewable energy producers in addition to the normal fees the city pays as part of its electric bills.

The city began purchasing the green tags in 2007 after leaders with the Lawrence-based Bowersock Mills and Power Company urged the commission to do so.

The city purchases the green tags from the Bonneville Environmental Foundation, which in turn provides some of the revenue to the Bowersock plant.

Discussion

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28 October 2009
at 6:50 a.m.

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devobrun (Anonymous) says…

Just to be clear:
The city didn't pay. The taxpayer did.
If you pay taxes to the city of Lawrence, you paid money to a “green” company.
Think of it as a form of extortion. .
28 October 2009
at 7:02 a.m.

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75x55 (Anonymous) says…

And what did they get for our money? A warm fuzzy feeling?

Is this how “green” jobs and companies stay solvent and “profitable”?

Is this a 'real world solution'?
28 October 2009
at 7:18 a.m.

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JackRipper (Anonymous) says…

city also votes to fund more sprawl and yet want to look green, how typical Lawrence, city of fakes.
28 October 2009
at 8:11 a.m.

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monkeyhawk (Anonymous) says…

Just wait until “smart grid” comes into your home.

“Planners envision installing a new kind of power meter in homes — a wall-based unit that can monitor how much electricity is being used by various appliances and turn them off at peak times during the day or night when demand for energy is higher, and thus costlier to consume.”
http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2009/oct…

So, is it an inanimate unit that will determine if and when you are using too much energy, or a human? More control over your own life taken away.

Will the city eventually force the consumer to buy green frauds? Will GE get a visit from the pay czar due to their bailout? Considering Immelt is now one of BO's advisers, I don't believe we have seen his name on the capped salary list.

“Obama’s budget includes the payoff, promising to start a multibillion-dollar greenhouse gas industry by 2012. In a letter this week, GE’S Immelt told shareholders that current events present an “opportunity of a lifetime,” because “capitalism will be ‘reset.’ ”

Immelt wrote: “The interaction between government and business will change forever. In a reset economy, the government will be a regulator; and also an industry policy champion, a financier, and a key partner.”

In short, GE plans to get rich by being one of the government’s closest partners — which it has always been, thanks to its unmatched lobbying efforts.”
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/pol…

GE is also poised to translate your medical records for transmission to the white house.
28 October 2009
at 8:46 a.m.

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jafs (Anonymous) says…

devo,

I'm perfectly happy to have some of my taxes go to offsetting pollution.

There are many other things at local, state and federal levels that bother me much more.
28 October 2009
at 8:55 a.m.

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LogicMan (Anonymous) says…

“And what did they get for our money? A warm fuzzy feeling?”

Apparently so. It would be much wiser and effective for them to spend that money on further weatherization of city buildings, etc. And it would directly inject the funds into the very local economy. But that would be too progressive and thus an unpopular idea?
28 October 2009
at 9 a.m.

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kmat (Anonymous) says…

monkeyhawk (Anonymous) says…

Just wait until “smart grid” comes into your home.

“Planners envision installing a new kind of power meter in homes — a wall-based unit that can monitor how much electricity is being used by various appliances and turn them off at peak times during the day or night when demand for energy is higher, and thus costlier to consume.”
http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2009/oct…

So, is it an inanimate unit that will determine if and when you are using too much energy, or a human? More control over your own life taken away.
___________________

Why not just read about monkey and stop with the govt conspiracy theory cr*p?

The consumer (you) would decide when you'll allow your appliances to have the power cut. Rates for electricity will vary, depending on usage rates. For example, you have your washer and dryer set to start at 3:00, but because of heavy industrial usage at that time, the rate for electricity goes up. You have a cap set on how much you're willing to pay and if the rate at that time is higher, the unit would turn off your washer and dryer. Pretty simple. You're home and still want to run those appliances - then you unplug them from the unit that monitors electricity use and use them anyways, paying the higher rate.

Education is a wonderful thing. To bad most people are too lazy to read.

28 October 2009
at 9:03 a.m.

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jafs (Anonymous) says…

I agree - we should also be finding ways to reduce our usage.

The city should immediately adjust the thermostats in all public buildings - I'd suggest about 68-9 in winter and 76-77 in summer.

Whenever possible, windows should be opened and heating/ac units turned off - there are many times in spring/fall when they're not necessary at all.

I'm surprised at how little airtime simple conservation/reduced use gets - we can all do it right now, it will cost us less, save energy and decrease the damage to the environment.
28 October 2009
at 9:44 a.m.

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monkeyhawk (Anonymous) says…

kmat.
Apparently you have not learned to read between the lines:

“…a wall-based unit that can monitor how much electricity is being used by various appliances and turn them off at peak times during the day or night when demand for energy is higher, and thus costlier to consume.”

Please cite where it states that it is the consumer who has sole control over usage.
28 October 2009
at 9:55 a.m.

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SettingTheRecordStraight (Anonymous) says…

kmat,

You don't think that our government will one day have the power to either set each home's thermostat levels or direct energy companies to set thermostat levels? To believe otherwise would be naive.

Do not install the new thermostats that allow for central planning of your family's energy use.
28 October 2009
at 10 a.m.

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parrothead8 (Anonymous) says…

monkeyhawk
Apparently you have not learned how to read THE lines.

“General Electric Co. recently announced it would test its “smart grid” technology in the luxury resort community of Wailea, hoping to reduce peak electricity consumption there by 15 percent by 2012.”

Please state where a smart grid being used by GE in a resort in Hawaii has anything to do with the one Westar will be using in Lawrence, which will specifically allow users to monitor their energy usage online…not control their appliances.

Here's the link that has to do with Lawrence instead of Hawaii: http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2009/aug…
28 October 2009
at 10:15 a.m.

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Satirical (Anonymous) says…

So, let me get this straight…the city of Lawrence purchases imaginary tickets to “support renewable energy”…by giving taxpayer money to a company… and getting nothing in return…and we did so because the company asked us to do so…please someone tell me this is a joke!

I have some magic beans I am willing to sell to the city. These magic beans don’t do anything, but it will make you feel better about using energy. That is the magic of them. I will sell them for only $8,500. What a deal!

I could think of a dozen things off the top of my head that would more efficiently achieve a “green” result. This imaginary “green tickets” is a total scam. Lawrence residents, you just paid $8,600 to line the pockets of a company so your elected officials could pretend they are doing something for the environment.
28 October 2009
at 10:16 a.m.

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Satirical (Anonymous) says…

This is totally outrageous!!!!

Lawrence are you really okay with this scam?
28 October 2009
at 10:46 a.m.

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artichokeheart (Anonymous) says…

Don't look at it as a scam. See it as a stimulus plan.
28 October 2009
at 11:11 a.m.

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Satirical (Anonymous) says…

articokeheart…
“Don't look at it as a scam. See it as a stimulus plan.”

You are totally right. It stimulates the companies who come begging for money from the city, and don't offer anything in return.

Forget banning panhandling on Mass St. I vote for banning panhandling directed at the city council.

28 October 2009
at 12:24 p.m.

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C_hertling (Anonymous) says…

“The city purchases the green tags from the Bonneville Environmental Foundation, which in turn provides some of the revenue to the Bowersock plant.”

I'd be interested in how much of the “Green Tag” cost is taken to fund overhead activities of Bonneville Environmental Foundation vs actually accomplishing their stated goals.
28 October 2009
at 12:38 p.m.

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devobrun (Anonymous) says…

Purchasing indulgences for offsetting guilt.
There is no more powerful emotion than guilt.
It gnaws at you.
It is insidious.
It works into your being even when you are not the one who is guilty.
Redemption is the only solution.
Forgiveness is equally powerful.
Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.
You are forgiven, my son.
Pay the indulgence and feel good about yourself.
The green religion works on your psyche in the same way as other religions.
But you have evidence, you say.
This is science, you say.
This is rational and deductive, you say.
Just like Houdini, Jesus, Marx, and all the other purveyors of astonishment, guilt, redemption and power over your feelings. Don't trust your feelings. You are being lied to.
This green stuff is a modern version of flim flam. Complete with all the trappings of old-time-religion.

What a bunch of rubes.
28 October 2009
at 12:54 p.m.

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jafs (Anonymous) says…

devo,

For an engineer, you seem to have rather “far-out” ideas.

Were you a hippie when you were younger?
28 October 2009
at 2:23 p.m.

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OnlyLawrenceRepublican (Anonymous) says…

Wait a minute. Bowersock urged the city to purchase the green tags. The green tags were purchased from the Bonneville Energy Foundation, which sells a green tag product called Zephyr Energy, which is hydro power generated by Bowersock. It makes sense to me.
28 October 2009
at 3:12 p.m.

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kmat (Anonymous) says…

monkeyhawk (Anonymous) says…

kmat.
Apparently you have not learned to read between the lines:

“…a wall-based unit that can monitor how much electricity is being used by various appliances and turn them off at peak times during the day or night when demand for energy is higher, and thus costlier to consume.”

Please cite where it states that it is the consumer who has sole control over usage.
_______________________________

I read quite well, obviously better than you do. I meant for you to quit being lazy and google smart grid and read what it actually does. The LJW is notorious for printing only partial stories and never gives you all the facts, just like this article. Then lazy people like you want to whine about something when you haven't bothered to educate yourself.

So take a minute and read what the smart grid actually does. They don't get control over your house. You set your limits of what you'll allow them to control, just like I stated in my post. The consumer sets their own limits, and if those limits are reached, the power co. turns them off . And, you can still plug your appliance into a regular outlet and use as much electricity as you want.

Good grief. Go to google. Type in smart grid. It's real easy. Even a monkey should be able to do it.
28 October 2009
at 5:03 p.m.

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SettingTheRecordStraight (Anonymous) says…

“They don't get control over your house. You set your limits of what you'll allow them to control…” -kmat

That's the arrangement today. But in a year or two or ten the control shifts to the central planners in Washington. Do you somehow disagree?
28 October 2009
at 5:14 p.m.

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kmat (Anonymous) says…

STRS - The smart grid works in your home by you plugging appliances into a unit that the power co. can control. You don't plug it into the unit, they can't control it.

You want to try and debate a hypothetical. I don't agree with you that DC will take control of every power company and grid in the nation. You just keep worrying about that, I'm not going to. You hate anything that comes from anyone but the super conservatives.
28 October 2009
at 8:02 p.m.

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devobrun (Anonymous) says…

jafs:

Worse than that. During my entire life I have been argumentative. I questioned the church.
I questioned hippies.
I questioned authority in all its incarnations.
It led to PhD., patents, businesses, and now in retirement to teaching. Teaching, like the old days when authority was challenged.

Not like today where Obama supporters and neo-Stalinists insist on lock-step agreement.

Call it anarchy tempered by experience. I rate computer models and theoretical notions that can't be tried as rubbish.

And today the intellect, aided by computer brains, has rendering overwrought crap. I look out at the world and see little birds with open mouths waiting for their government to shove knowledge down their throats.

The search for wisdom of the 1950's has been run over by hippy-marketers.

Many people think that “green” is progressive, new and fecund.
It is a new religion, just like the old ones. People aren't different today. They seek comfort and wisdom from the starets just like in Ibsen's day. Only today, the dogma is termed “global warming”, and the prophets are old hippies and new-age proselytizers.

The apparent culture of hip people in the boutiques of Lawrence are all patting themselves on the back just like the old fat men of years ago. Collaborating, organizing, making themselves feel good about their “caring” and “nurturing”……………….with your money.

28 October 2009
at 8:02 p.m.

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Marion (Marion Lynn) says…

Hey, I'm thinking of starting a corporation which will “invest” in all kinds of “green” stuff, including green beer on ST. Paddy's Day!

I'll do it like this:

You send me money, you get nothing in return but I “promise” to invest most of what I get in the mail into “green” energy sources.

Completely legal.

hey……………………………………………….
28 October 2009
at 8:34 p.m.

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parrothead8 (Anonymous) says…

devobrun (Anonymous) says…
During my entire life I have been argumentative.
I questioned the church.
I questioned hippies.
I questioned authority in all its incarnations.

Um…how does questioning the hippies fit in with questioning “authority in all its incantations”?

The hippies questioned a war we shouldn't have been involved in. Decades later, the people who ran that war said we never should have been involved. So…the hippies were right.
28 October 2009
at 9:22 p.m.

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BigPrune (Anonymous) says…

This so-called green tag sounds like a gigantic scam. Wouldn't the City of Lawrence get the same benefits from Bowersock without paying some non-profit in Portland, Oregon?

Here's an idea: I will set up a non-profit company called, Big Green Prune and I promise for every dollar donated, I will plant one grass seed to offset carbon emissions. At 500 blades of grass per square foot, I will be creating 17 square feet of grass for every $8500 donated. At least mine would be accountable. I won't use any of the $8500 for the administration of all these blades. I bet my non-profit would be more transparent than any other carbon credit “green tag” non profit out there.

Is there any accountability anymore? I don't want to hear about how the City is poor anymore.
28 October 2009
at 10:34 p.m.

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parrothead8 (Anonymous) says…

SettingTheRecordStraight (Anonymous) says…
“They don't get control over your house. You set your limits of what you'll allow them to control…” -kmat
That's the arrangement today. But in a year or two or ten the control shifts to the central planners in Washington. Do you somehow disagree?

Where do you have any proof of this? I haven't read ANYwhere…not in this article, not in any smart grid technology news, not in any government energy documents…that the government wants to decide when I can use my coffeemaker or washing machine.

You are grasping at straws, pulling ludicrous accusations from your where-the-sun-don't-shine. Come back when you have facts.
29 October 2009
at 8:03 a.m.

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jafs (Anonymous) says…

devo,

Your arrogance and contempt are overwhelming.

I am also a big proponent of questioning and thinking for oneself, but less dismissive and contemptuous of others.

I don't recall a movement of “searching for wisdom” in the 1950's - that was an era of conformity and social rigidity. That's why the '60's were so revolutionary.

To dismiss environmental concerns (which I have had for over 20 years) as a faddish new religion is clearly to throw out the baby with the bath water.

It may be true that young people are generally oriented towards hip new trends, but that doesn't devalue environmental concerns (if that is the new trend).
29 October 2009
at 9:40 a.m.

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SettingTheRecordStraight (Anonymous) says…

kmat,
My original and subsequent comments were based on the central planners in Washington controlling our thermostats, not plug-in appliances.

parrothead,
Well then consider yourself aware of the prediction that government will one day have the ability to set thermostat levels in individual houses across the country. Given current trends, this is not an unlikely scenario.