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Archive for Tuesday, October 20, 2009

Double Take: Teen daughter wants to date 21-year-old

October 20, 2009

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Dear Dr. Wes and Samantha: I’m having a hard time knowing how to handle my daughter’s relationship. She is 16 and wants to date a man who is 21. I think there is something wrong with this. I don’t know why he would be interested in a girl this young.

Samantha: A younger girl dating an older guy comes with assumptions. He’s pressuring her to have sex. He likes having control over her. He will introduce her to drugs and alcohol prematurely. However, these stereotypes may not apply here. Your daughter may be ready to date a guy who is more mature than high school guys, or maybe she just has more in common with him than she does with guys her age. Either way, this relationship could be good for her.

While there is evidence that girls dating older guys are more likely to face relationship violence and to abuse substances, relationships are not statistics. It would be a mistake to order your daughter not to date him just because you think dating an older guy is “risky.” That choice would be like throwing away an apple because there MIGHT be a worm in it.

Besides, ordering your daughter not to date this guy probably won’t stop her. She may actually become more attached to him. If you want to protect your daughter, you need to approach the situation differently. You have three things to consider: the guy, outside sources and your daughter in order to assess whether the relationship is dangerous for her, while still giving her the space she needs.

Invite the guy over for dinner. Don’t pull out your shotgun or start an interrogation. One open-ended question goes further than 100 closed ones. Find out what activities he’s involved in and show a genuine interest in at least one. Ask him follow-up questions about that activity. Find out what he’s proud of and what’s difficult for him.

Do a quick Google search on him. You probably won’t find much information on a college student, but you never know. If your daughter talks to him on Facebook, casually look at his profile while she’s online. A Facebook profile reveals a lot about a person. If he lives in the community, ask about him.

Your daughter is your most important source. Ask why she likes this guy. Show respect for her decision through your interest in her thoughts about him. Once you show you’re on her side, she’ll be more open to your questions. Ask her about where she stands boundarywise and whether he’s pressured her in any way. When she goes out with him on a date, find out the details of the plan. Then follow up to see how it went.

Frequent dialogue is important whether your daughter is dating someone her own age or someone older. Your best option is to stay connected with her. A shared interest in her happiness will strengthen your relationship so that if and when she determines she is in over her head, she will come to you.

Wes: I have one simple rule on this subject: The older they are, the more perfect they have to be. It’s one thing for your daughter to date unwisely when her partner is an age mate. When the difference is five years, two things have to be in sync. First, the guy needs to be interested in her because she is a remarkably mature young woman. The worst thing I ever hear in these cases is a girl who says, “Don’t worry, he doesn’t act like he’s 21.” Somehow that’s supposed to equal things out — that a guy of 21 is so childlike that he fits in perfectly in the sophomore class. Instead, what you want to see and hear is that your daughter is so sophisticated that — just as Samantha proposes — she actually fits in better with the college-age crowd. I realize that’s hard to gauge, but you have to figure it out before knowing what’s going on with this guy. Truth be known, I’ve advised more than one 17-year-old who was simply too old for high school to look for dating partners 19 to 20, as long as they stick with the rule. While 16 and 21 is cutting it a lot closer, I’ve also seen dating in that range that worked out fine.

Second, the guy has to be near-perfect in a lot of other ways. He’d better be working consistently in a decent job or doing well in college or trade school. Again, those things don’t matter as much if he’s 17. They are everything in a young adult.

Finally, after you’ve exhausted all of Samantha’s excellent suggestions and determined that this guy is OK, sit down and have dinner and get some big issues out on the table: birth control, substance abuse and rules. Young adults have easy access to a great many things that teenagers should not. Your daughter must keep following basic rules (like curfew, grades, etc.), and her boyfriend needs to support that WITHOUT FAIL. He should be especially aware that he faces serious charges if he’s furnishing her with legal or illegal substances. Again, teens may be foolish about some of these issues. Adults had better not be. If he can support and follow your rules, you may find that he is actually a safer bet than some of your daughter’s peers, who have all the same problems and (hopefully) less maturity. If your daughter wants to play in his league she needs to play a lot smarter than her girlfriends who are dating age mates, or else this will turn out to be a really bad idea.

Let me close by reminding young readers and parents that the age of consent for sex in Kansas is 16. NOTHING we have discussed today applies to anyone under the age of 16, and especially below 15 where the “Romeo and Juliet” statute does not pertain. It is extraordinarily easy for older teens and young adults to end up as sex offenders in Kansas and most states right now. Unless you’ve studied this more closely than the average citizen, you’ve no idea how damaging it will be for a son or daughter who gets caught up with an underage partner. It can literally destroy their foreseeable future in 90 seconds.

We’ll talk more about that next week, in fact, as we consider how to brief teenagers on this important topic.

— Dr. Wes Crenshaw is a board-certified family psychologist and director of the Family Therapy Institute Midwest. Samantha Schwartz is a senior at Lawrence High School. Opinions and advice given here are not meant as a substitute for psychological evaluation or therapy services. Send your questions about adolescent issues (limited to 200 words) to doubletake@ljworld.com. All correspondence is strictly confidential.

Comments

Jean1183 4 years, 10 months ago

I was 16 and my husband 20 when we met and started "dating". We married 2 years later (after I graduated from high school) and have been happily married for 35 years.

The above advice from Dr. Crenshaw and Ms. Schwartz is excellent.

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mom_of_three 4 years, 10 months ago

My first reaction is "he!! no."
And so is my 2nd reaction. But the advice makes sense.
and so my last response is well, still, NO.

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mom_of_three 4 years, 10 months ago

And then I would want to know where a 16 year old meets a 21 year old. And then the response would still be NO

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coolmom 4 years, 10 months ago

mom of three i agree that the above advice sounds reasonable and my response would still be no for my daughters and my sons. way different parts of life i think. shudder.

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RoeDapple 4 years, 10 months ago

See, you moms talk politely to this creep then talk to your daughters about life choices...

We dads (some of us anyway) inform the perv if we ever see him again we will rip off his arm and shove it down his throat. No need to tell our daughters, perv never calls again..

:-)

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denak 4 years, 10 months ago

Like most posters on here, I on the "hell no" side.

I had a foster daughter a few years ago who was 16 wanted to date a guy who was 22. I didn't like the idea at all but I listened to other people who told me if I tried to prevent it, it would make her rebel, she would just get more attached to him, etc etc etc. Well guess what it blew up in all of our faces.

There is only two reasons a man in his twenties wants to be with a 16 year old girl and that is he either just wants to "sleep with her" to put it nicely or he wants to sell her drugs and he usually wants the former in order for her to get the latter.

I don't have any nice, reasoned advice for this mother other than to go with your gut instinct. If you think this is a bad idea, stick to your guns. Don't let other people tell you what to do. Your daughter might stomp and cry and tell you she "will just die without him" but don't let her date him if you are not comfortable with the idea. Of course, be prepared for the possibility she will sneak out and see him anyway.

My personal opinion is invite him over, sit him down and ask him his name, birthday, social security number (if you can get it), make and model of his car,(have mom or dad go out and take a pic of it on the cell phone while someone is talking to him) cell phone number, and work place. If he bulks at giving you any of that, he isn't on the up and up and you make sure he knows that you know the D.A. personally (show him a fake number in your cell) and even though she is 16 and that is the age of consent, all hell is going to rain down on him should she get hurt or pop positive for a pregnancy test or drug test.

This might not be the most subtle approach but if he is legit, he isn't going to be intimidated and if he is a piece of crap, he is probably going to drop her because he doesn't want the hassle. He'll move on to another target whose parents aren't going to cause him any problems.

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jonas_opines 4 years, 10 months ago

"My personal opinion is invite him over, sit him down and ask him his name, birthday, social security number (if you can get it), make and model of his car,(have mom or dad go out and take a pic of it on the cell phone while someone is talking to him) cell phone number, and work place. If he bulks at giving you any of that, he isn't on the up and up"

Are you kidding me? That's probably illegal. How could you say someone isn't on the "up and up" by refusing to provide someone (who has no business possessing them) their social security # or VIN #?

Certainly you can find more valid ways to judge character than by stalking practices.

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denak 4 years, 10 months ago

That isn't stalking and it isn't illegal.

Sitting there cleaning your gun talking about how you can take someone out with one shot is probably illegal. :)

The point is if the guy isn't even willing to give up basic information about himself, he is probably has something to hide and he probably isn't interested in your daughter's well-being.

If the guy is on the up and up he is going to understand the parents' concern and answer any question they ask of him.

However, if he isn't...a little recon isn't going to break any laws and probably is going to save a lot of time if you ever have to file a police report.

Dena

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salad 4 years, 10 months ago

This is the worst advice ever. No good can come from a 16 yr. old girl and a 21 yr. old guy. The answer should be NOOOOOO!!!!

The fact that this guy can't get girls his own age is a HUGE red flag. Plus she's 16, isn't that young enough for statutory rape?!?!

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jonas_opines 4 years, 10 months ago

"The point is if the guy isn't even willing to give up basic information about himself, he is probably has something to hide and he probably isn't interested in your daughter's well-being."

Like a social security # or a VIN? How is that "basic information"? Running recon? Seriously, remove the "for the children" from this equation, and no one would say that it's not stalking.

"If the guy is on the up and up he is going to understand the parents' concern and answer any question they ask of him."

Or he might think the parents are trying to defraud him. Where do you go to school? What are you studying? Are you working? Why are you interested in my child? These are concerned questions. Will you give me the keys to your personal identity? How about a credit card number? Give me your employment history. Those sound, reading between the lines, to have an entirely different intention behind them: running them off. No sane person would divulge that private information. You wouldn't.

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1029 4 years, 10 months ago

Nobody "on the up and up" would ever give out information such a social security number simply because some lunatic (i.e. Denak) asked for it.

Only an idiot would sit there and let you write down his name, address, social, birthdate, place of employment, etc and then let you take a cell phone pic of his vehicle. Are you kidding me? And then sit there with a straight face while you offer to show him a fake entry for the DA in your cell phone? Ha.

And I love the idea that someone who won't give some stranger his social security number "probably has something to hide and he probably isn't interested in your daughter's well-being". You can't be serious. If the guy gives it to you, he's an idiot, so why would you want an idiot dating your daughter? If he's half-way intelligent, he would understand that there is no good reason for you wanting his social, and that it couldn't be of any value to you unless you were up to no good.

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justthefacts 4 years, 10 months ago

The advice given is sound and good. And the parents who say it doesn't work are also right.

The bottom line is that if a 16 year old girl is interested in a 21 year old guy, she's going to find a way to see him, with or without the parent's knowledge and permission. If you get rid of one guy, she'll find someone just as old (or much worse). When a child reaches 16 there's not a lot you can do to control the situation. Sure, you can ground her and keep a watch on her 24/7 (really), if you don't have a llife of your own. If you don't stay next to her 24/7, and if she's so inclined, she'll find a way to see him.

The fact she is even interested in someone who is this much older tells you something about her. In most cases, a girl this age is going to do what she wants, with or without parental permission. The most a parent can do is express their concerns, without attacking to the point the teen stops hearing, and hope she has some survival instincts and common sense and will take your concerns into consideration. Or you can keep her under lock and key until you are ready to let her go.

The better question is why would a 21 year old male want to date a 16 year old? Answer: Because he can't get girls his own age to show him any interest OR he wants something he cannot get from someone nearer his own age (i.e. adulation, innocense, etc.).

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Snoop 4 years, 10 months ago

You know at first I was going to offer some friendly parental advice because I have an idiot daughter who was in the same situation and advice from the parents meant squat. (Everyone said, I bet the divorce affected her - she was 13 at the time of the divorce) She obviously knew best. Her mom did not object despite my obvious concerns. Two kids later and floundering I’d say told you so, but the fact that she is struggling and with another bum (tho closer to her age) common sense does not seem to have kicked in.

Screw it, let he date the bum. All of us guys know that dating some young innocent (idiot) chick back in our high school days was the thing to do. (when you could keep it hidden) No sane MATURE 21 year old wants to date a young girl unless her body is bangin! Yes crude but let be honest folks the 21 year old ain’t with her because of her intellect and wonderful personality. A 21 year old man should want a WOMAN someone who can offer him a little more on an intellectual challenge and of course mental stability. But as we all know men are pigs but advice columns like this only prove that no matter how jacked up some men or BOYS are, there will always be someone to excuse or rationalize the behavior.

Girls who are achievers, active in school activities and are driven seem to avoid situations like this. It is only girls who lack self esteem who are emotionally fragile and lack true friendships that get caught up in this crap. Just the kind of girl a 21 plus year old dude is looking for.

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Ralph Reed 4 years, 10 months ago

@Dena.

p>@Dena.>

Asking for information is not stalking. If he refuses to provide, then show him the door.

Cleaning your handgun and or rifle while asking him these questions isn't illegal. After all, you're simply performing required maintenance. I would include sharpening crossbow bolts, while talking about how they can go clear through a deer. (;-}

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jonas_opines 4 years, 10 months ago

"Asking for information is not stalking."

So, what's your social security number then, Ralph?

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BMI 4 years, 10 months ago

Good advice, but for a very few. I think they overlook the lifetime ramifications. Young girl forms deep attachment, thinks this is the one she will spend the rest of her life with.Trust, honor, marry, babies. The whole nine yards. When that young girl gets dumped by the older man she forms abandonment issues that carry on,(even if she breaks it off figuring out she is being used) much as if her own father had died or left her. She goes on to other normal break ups that happen to most people, it inflates the inner feelings of abandonment, creating a mistrust of men that can affect her relationships the rest of her life. Think of how many girls already have no fathers in their lives full time, out there seeking replacement figures of some kind. Problematic.

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brian1981 4 years, 10 months ago

Seriously, WTF is a 21-year old doing going after a 16-year old? HUGE difference in age level/maturity/legal responsibilities.

As a boy in high school, my experience was that every girl my age thought they were way more mature than their high school male counterparts and needed to go out with someone older who could "understand" them.

But the emotional/life experience gap between a 16-year old girl and 21-year old boy is just huge. If it's not, than either the 16-year old girl or the 21-year old boy is doing something wrong and you should be suspicious.

There's absolutely nothing good that can come from a 21-year old man poking around a 16-year old girl. I'll mostly let the 16-year old girl off the hook, because 16-year olds are categorically dumb about these sorts of things (I was too), but something is seriously wrong with the guy. Either he's wildly immature or has horribly low self-esteem or is just looking to take advantage of someone. All are something to keep your daughter away from.

I'm horrified, but sadly not surprised, that some alleged "experts" are tip-toeing around this issue and claiming that under some circumstances it might be okay. I guess that's the world we are living in now.

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Kirk Larson 4 years, 10 months ago

What's weird is how not so long ago it was common practice for parents to force teenage daughters to marry men as old as fifty and think it was the best thing in the world. My, how times change.

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kmat 4 years, 10 months ago

denak (Anonymous) says…

There is only two reasons a man in his twenties wants to be with a 16 year old girl and that is he either just wants to “sleep with her” to put it nicely or he wants to sell her drugs and he usually wants the former in order for her to get the latter.


Don't think an older guy is trying to go out with a 16 year old "to sell her drugs". Good lord. All he's looking for is a younger, naive piece of .... You really are removed from the real world and kids.

My father, who was a sniper in the Army during the Korean War, made sure every guy I ever went out with knew that he was a trained sniper and could take a person out from a very far distance. Needless to say, all the guys I went out with were very respectful and made sure I was home by curfew.

And those saying you can't control what your daughter will do (she'll go see the guy anyways) - you need to put the fear of god in your kids. My parents were wonderful, loving people. BUT, I also knew that I'd better do what they told me to do. They didn't like a guy, I didn't go out with him. Once I turned 18, then I could make my own decisions. What ever happened to teaching your kids to respect your rules and follow them as long as you live under their roof?

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denak 4 years, 10 months ago

Jonas, This is the definition for stalking. Stalking is: 1) Intentionally or recklessly engaging in a course of conduct targeted at a specific person which would cause a reasonable person in the circumstances of the targeted person to fear for such person's safety, or the safety of a member of such person's immediate family and the targeted person is actually placed in such fear; (2) intentionally engaging in a course of conduct targeted at a specific person which the individual knows will place the targeted person in fear for such person's safety or the safety of a member of such person's immediate family; or (3) after being served with, or otherwise provided notice of, any protective order included in K.S.A. 21-3843, and amendments thereto, that prohibits contact with a targeted person, intentionally or recklessly engaging in at least one act listed in subsection (f)(1) that violates the provisions of the order and would cause a reasonable person to fear for such person's safety, or the safety of a member of such person's immediate family and the targeted person is actually placed in such fear. (1) "Course of conduct" means two or more acts over a period of time, however short, which evidence a continuity of purpose. A course of conduct shall not include constitutionally protected activity nor conduct that was necessary to accomplish a legitimate purpose independent of making contact with the targeted person. A course of conduct shall include, but not be limited to, any of the following acts or a combination thereof: (A) Threatening the safety of the targeted person or a member of such person's immediate family. (B) Following, approaching or confronting the targeted person or a member of such person's immediate family. (C) Appearing in close proximity to, or entering the targeted person's residence, place of employment, school or other place where such person can be found, or the residence, place of employment or school of a member of such person's immediate family. (D) Causing damage to the targeted person's residence or property or that of a member of such person's immediate family. (E) Placing an object on the targeted person's property or the property of a member of such person's immediate family, either directly or through a third person. (F) Causing injury to the targeted person's pet or a pet belonging to a member of such person's immediate family. (G) Any act of communication.

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denak 4 years, 10 months ago

2) "Communication" means to impart a message by any method of transmission, including, but not limited to: Telephoning, personally delivering, sending or having delivered, any information or material by written or printed note or letter, package, mail, courier service or electronic transmission, including electronic transmissions generated or communicated via a computer. (3) "Computer" means a programmable, electronic device capable of accepting and processing data. (4) "Conviction" includes being convicted of a violation of this section or being convicted of a law of another state which prohibits the acts that this section prohibits. (5) "Immediate family" means father, mother, stepparent, child, stepchild, sibling, spouse or grandparent of the targeted person; any person residing in the household of the targeted person; or any person involved in an intimate relationship with the targeted person. (g) If any provision or application of this section is held invalid for any reason, the invalidity of such provision or application is severable and does not affect other provisions or applications of this section which can be given effect without the invalid provisions or application.

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denak 4 years, 10 months ago

Jonas and 1029, So you think I am out of line to question a 21 year old who comes to take out a 16 year old girl, I beg to differ. The liklihood that the guy is genuinely concerned about her is almost nil. What both Samantha and Wes alluded to in the article is true. Girls in a relationship with a significantly older man are more likely to be abused. You think I'm crazy but even Samantha said to do a quick google search. For the sake of argument, lets say she doesn't come home one night. You call the police tell them your 16 year old daughter hasn't come home, they come out to take a report. You tell the police that she was last seen with her "boyfriend" and give him a name. This is how the rest of your report will go: Police:Do you know where he lives? You: I don't know. Police: Do you know what he drives? You: I don't know.

Police:Do you know where he works? You: I don't know.

Police: Do you know how old he is? You: I don't know. I think he is 21.

Police: You let your 16 year old go out with a 21 year old. (Police office glances significantly at his partner, then sighs) You in a justifying voice: Well, he seemed like a nice guy.

Police: Do you have a picture of him? You: No.

Police: Do they share any of the same friends? You: I don't know.

You: Do you think you will be able to find her Officer? Police: I don't know. We really don't have any information to go on but we'll keep an eye out for her. If she calls, try to find out who she is with and where.

Officer leaves. You sit on your couch, praying that she is ok and wishing that you had asked just a few more questions.

What you don't seem to realize is that I'm not interested in being some 21 year old's friend. I am interested in protecting my 16 year old. So, yes,crazy or not, I will ask any question I want. As for the whole D.A., thing, deceptive yes but that isn't illegal. And you will be suprise how "uncocky" a person will get if they think you can bring the cops down on them.

Dena

P.S. Kmat: I'm not removed from kids if anything I think I know their games a little better than you. A dealer isn't going to "go out" with a 16 year old, but your daughter will tell you that is her boyfriend so that you won't ask questions as to why she is hanging out with him.

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puddleglum 4 years, 10 months ago

ah, cmon-everybody likes a younger girl. I mean woman. There is nothing wrong with going after 16-year old girls. they are mature at that age, and already have had sex and done other stuff by then. I mean, they can have a driver's license can't they? most of them make better decisions than 21 year old girls make. whats the big deal?

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cj123 4 years, 10 months ago

i dated a 22 year old when i was 16 and guess what he wanted? sex! he dumped me after a month. he then went after another classmate! i wonder if he is still dating 16 year olds after all these year?

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BigPrune 4 years, 10 months ago

What about a middle aged man minding his own business and some hot little 21 year old woman who happens to also be a model is in hot pursuit? Would it be sick if the man caved to temptation or should he get a big pat on the back?

....just kidding, of course.

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oldvet 4 years, 10 months ago

Come on in, son... while you are waiting for my 16-year-old to be ready I will need to have your drivers license, your vehicle registration and insurance papers so that I can make copies of them. I also want you to stand over here while I take front and profile pictures of you. I would also like you to come downstairs and see my gun collection, so that you can see that you don't have a chinaman's chance out to about 1000 yards.

I don't know sweetie... he just went out to his car and then drove away... oh well....

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bearded_gnome 4 years, 10 months ago

well, I rather like the shotgun element myself. I don't buy the 'she's gonna do it anyway and if you try to stop it, you're gonna push her into this relationship.'
1. this statement implies that all 16-year-old girls have the intellect of a potato. 2. it implies that you as a parent lack a good relationship with her, and she doesn't give a flying fudge what you think. 3. it gives her too much dangerous power, she's not ready for that yet.

I like Roe's idea, and 75X55. Dena makes great points too. maybe not quite asking for social security number, but if she's going to date him and she's that young, you're darned right you get some basic info on him.
it is wrong for the parent (s) to just wave the white flag. after all, they're supposed to be the grownups.
being 16, she needs to hear more than "no" or "he's bad" or "its wrong." being 16, she needs to hear from parent(s) some explanation, experiences, data, etc.
put in the relationship time and communicate with your daughter FGS! yes, she may tell you to stuff-it, but she's then heard you and your reasons.

and if she ignores you, then you find out where the perv lives and you use some personal explosives ... no, just kidding. ... really, just kidding.

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Nikki May 4 years, 10 months ago

Questions like where did you meet and stuff like that are ok. Social security numbers, not ok. If that's info you are willing to give out to everyone who asks, then feel free to post it.

For the record, my husband is 6 years older than me. He hasn't beaten me (there was a girl in high school who was beaten by her younger boyfriend though). He didn't force me into sex, basically none of the stereotypes here. We've been married 15 years and together 18. We met because we hung out with mutual friends. Yes, that IS possible. Also, he was a friend's brother. It can work out.

Granted, I would have issues if it was my daughter, but I'd be like that no matter the age. I would do all the things listed above. I would want to know who he is, where they met, who else they hang out with. I would also keep an eye open for behavior changes.

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tangential_reasoners_anonymous 4 years, 10 months ago

For 16-year-olds of any gender who are considering dating someone FIVE years older and interested in them, I ask, simply... "How would you feel about dating an 11- or 12-year-old?"

( A four- or five-year difference in the second decade is significant. )

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bearded_gnome 4 years, 10 months ago

BigPrune (Anonymous) says…

What about a middle aged man minding his own business and some hot little 21 year old woman who happens to also be a model is in hot pursuit? Would it be sick if the man caved to temptation or should he get a big pat on the back?

….just kidding, of course.

---I feel your pain BigPrune, it's just rough I tell ya'!


BMI, very perceptive post there.

how about: she's 14, he's 22. my first wife thought that was just peachy, her daughter was the 14-year-old!
you're right, that's one reason she's the ex-wife.

unfortunately, younger daughter takes advantage when parents are not unified. a much older boyfriend can be the result.

no, their relationship wasn't platonic.

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mom_of_three 4 years, 10 months ago

for the record, this has not happened in my house, and I hope it never does.

I remember several years ago, when I worked with single guys around my age, who were dating college girls a decade younger. He was in his early thirties and they were maybe 20, 21. I told him "Do you know what they were doing when you were 18?" "They thought Big Bird was real!"

A 5 year ago difference is a little different twenties and above than it is in your teens

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jonas_opines 4 years, 10 months ago

Wow, dena, you certainly went a long ways the opposite direction to try and prove your point. I may be mistaken, but there's a lot of ground between demanding someone give you that private of information and simply remaining ignorant.

Go find any five of your children's friends, and better yet their parents, and ask them for their social security number and VIN, then see if they disagree on your definition of stalking.

Asking anybody for those bits of info is pointless. No sane person would give them to someone just for being asked. It strikes me as similar to the fairy tales where the king sets a challenge for suitors to slay an unkillable dragon. The obvious point is to run them off, or forbid them, the same as I see it here. I could care less what you do or do not do with your own family, but I think it would be less deceptive to simply forbid it, since it's clear that's what you want to do. Playing games so you can preserve face seems likely to come back and bite you. A sixteen year kid is out of your eye and largely your supervision in 2 years, after all.

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BMI 4 years, 10 months ago

Thank you gnome.

As for those talking about the SSN. That is not such a bad idea. Yes, you may feel it is an invasion of privacy, but as a parent protecting the child, it also might be a wake up discussion point to use.

An old classmate found herself unwed and pregnant in the 80's. She was in her mid 20's, having just started a new career but not making a lot of money. She spoke to SRS about possibly getting help with the child's needs IF that might need to happen (which it did not as she made too much money, but just barely). She preferred to do as much as possible on her own. But she knew enough to learn what she could for the child's interests.

The young man of course claimed he could not help, and having seen the way he managed money, she felt it rather silly to expect it, he was getting help from his parents still.

SRS asked her if she HAD his SSN! She said no. They asked if she could possibly get it, as this was the one thing that she would always be able to track him with. She said, that the company did put them on the time cards, and they were in the hallway, but she didn't want to spy like that, being stoic and concerned what someone would say even though they were all in plain sight.

Thus, SRS considers it important to keep track of the baby's father with this number. That 21 yr old, or any male your daughter is having sex with, could be the future father of your grandchild. Maybe you SHOULD be getting that SSN on that first date. It could save you some headaches in the future, trying to track the boy down. Maybe a DNA sample isn't too much to ask either. And why not photocopy that driver's license, tag number and tell them you emailed it to your work computer for back up? They will know you are serious and that they should view it seriously as well. I know single women who email their first date's info to friends for that reason, and most of the men think they are pretty smart to do so once they get over the surprise of it.

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KansasPerson 4 years, 10 months ago

Not that it matters to the underlying points being made, but I can't see anywhere in denak's original post that she advocating getting the VIN of the guy's car.

SSN she did say.

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Ralph Reed 4 years, 10 months ago

Good question at 1543 jonas. I assume you have a need to know just like the parents of the girl in question.

But again, you're not stalking, you're just asking (and sniping).

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bearded_gnome 4 years, 10 months ago

wow, Marioni reads 'modern drunkard' magazine...who'd a thunk it?

do they have special little ads in back too?

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bearded_gnome 4 years, 10 months ago

Wrong kind woman got me in this mess wantin' pretty things and a satin red dress What I couldn't make she said I have to take and judge said ninety-nine for just this sake [ guitar ] I take a rest when the guard turns his head Hopin' he'll be nappin' maybe shoot me dead Those days drag by and the years go slow But thank God I only got ninety-seven more to go Ninety-nine years on a harder rock...

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momfromlawrence 4 years, 10 months ago

I have three kids along with two step kids. My step son is dating a girl who just turned 17 and he is almost 21. Her parents love him. In my opinion it all depends on the guy. My step son is a wonderful kid. He never had those ideas on his mind when they started dating. They met in high school and have been dating for a couple of years. I feel that the parents should get to know the guy if the girl is really interested in dating him.

It is important that the parents trust their daughter and at least give her a chance. My ex-husband was a lot older than me. I was 20 and he was 33. Looking back at it, this was worse than a 16 year old and a 21 year old. It is only a number. Have you noticed that 16 year old boys are only interested in getting a girl into the sack anyway?

Give the guy a chance. You never know, she might decide that if mom and dad like him, then he isn't the right one.

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Jason Bailey 4 years, 10 months ago

When did "jail bait" become vogue? If I were this 21 y/o guy, I'd be scared to death to even touch this 16 y/o girl. All it will take is a bad outcome to the relationship and she can claim statutory rape. The insinuation alone can cause you to plead guilty for probation when confronted by law enforcement in a he-said/she-said court threat where the older man will probably lose. When that happens, you're on the sex predator list for at least a year (maybe longer) and there goes your job prospects during that time.

Sorry, no lady is worth the trouble when you're talking adult vs. child.

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Torrel 4 years, 9 months ago

I'm a guy from the UK who you might see fit to stereotype as ‘wanting sex or to sell drugs as I have an interest in a girl who is 15 and I'm 20. However I do agree that any parent should be cautious about the situation.

However don't tar us all with the same brush, I'm a Christian as is the girl and we are both interested in each other and both believe in celibacy before marriage. Shes very mature for her age and although most of her friends are her own age etc, when she comes to house parties and such she fits in although isn't allowed to stay late.

I got to know her as about 4 ½ years ago I started dating her older sister (for a very short period of time) and we are still friends now, as a result her older brother also 20 is now my best mate. I have also grown very close to the parents and I speak to them regally.

I'm not immature, dumb, or unable to get girls my own age at all as I'm currently attending university in my 3rd and final year, and have plenty of non-xtian girls interested in me.

It was suspected that she has liked me since she was about 12 from know her sister etc. More recently (start of 09) she has started flirting with me I brushed it off not thinking anything of it, but slowly I started to also develop feeling for her as I got to know her and hang out with her more, occasionally just the 2 of us but more often when shes with her sister.

I told her sister about it and she wasn't particularly shocked and was in fact in full support of it. It didn't take long for her parents to assume we liked each other and put a drastic stopper in it early on. Making her block and delete me from facebook, msn and phone, and also telling her she is only allowed to talk to me if there is a ‘trusted' 3rd party present. A measure that I think is completely over the top considering they know they can trust me well etc, however we both have respected and abided by it, although neither me, the girl or her sister agree with it.

In this case how do people feel about it and what would they have done if it was there own daughter etc?

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