Lawrence and Douglas County

Lawrence and Douglas county

Voter ID requirement up for consideration in Legislature

March 16, 2009

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— Legislation headed for full Senate consideration would require that voters show identification at the polls or when getting an advance ballot. The ID would not have to have a photograph of the person.

The law already requires people new to a county to show ID, but Senate Bill 267 would require voters to show ID every time they voted.

An acceptable identification would be a driver’s license, utility bill, bank statement, paycheck or government document — something that has the voter’s name and address.

Last year, Gov. Kathleen Sebelius vetoed a photo ID bill. She said there was no reason for the bill because there had been no instances of voter fraud in the state. Kansas Republicans have long called for such a requirement.

When SB 267 was in committee last week, several people called for the photo ID requirement.

Paul Degener, of Topeka, president of Citizens Against Illegal Immigration, said anyone could easily get a nonphoto ID. “If you don’t mind Dumpster diving, I think you can find a utility bill,” he said.

He said voters should have to show a photo ID or possibly a birth certificate when they vote.

Degener said he became engaged in the issue when he watched what he said were “illegal aliens” being encouraged to vote at a rally at the Capitol in 2006. “This is the United States of America, not Mexico, and only U.S. citizens should vote,” Degener said.

Tom Stoffors, of Tonganoxie, with November Patriots, said fraud at the ballot box is a problem despite what Sebelius said. “You’d have to be naive or just not willing to look at this to think this is not a problem,” he said.

Michael Byington, with the Kansas Association for the Blind and Visually Impaired, said he believed the identification requirement will result in some legitimate voters being refused the right to vote. But, he said, SB 267 is better than one requiring a photo ID.

“We’re not crazy about this, but if you do one, do this one,” Byington said.

Comments

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 6 years, 1 month ago

"Paul Degener, of Topeka, president of Citizens Against Illegal Immigration, said anyone could easily get a nonphoto ID. “If you don’t mind Dumpster diving, I think you can find a utility bill,” he said."

Only problem with your little "theory," Paul, is that there is absolutely no reason for anybody to want to go to all that trouble to commit a felony that would most likely have zero effect on the outcome of an election.

“Tom Stoffors, of Tonganoxie, with November Patriots, said fraud at the ballot box is a problem despite what Sebelius said. “You’d have to be naive or just not willing to look at this to think this is not a problem,” he said.”

Tom, there is zero evidence that this happens in any significant way, and it would be easily detected if it were done in the systematic way that would be required to change the outcome of an election.

This is nothing but demagoguery.

fairplay 6 years, 1 month ago

It's Bush's fault.

Thought I would get it out there before someone else beats me to the punch.

SettingTheRecordStraight 6 years, 1 month ago

just another bozo on this emp-T supports the status quo because he knows that the Far Left, such as those who support ACORN, are much more likely to abuse our lax voter ID laws than any conservative.

It's time to appeal to commonsense. It's time for reasonable voter ID laws.

Flap Doodle 6 years, 1 month ago

Thanks to ACORN & a lack of voter ID laws in this country, a record number of imaginary-Americans voted in 2008.

Hoots 6 years, 1 month ago

Your vote is important. I think you should have to prove you are who you say you are.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 6 years, 1 month ago

"Thanks to ACORN & a lack of voter ID laws in this country, a record number of imaginary-Americans voted in 2008."

Only in your imagination.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 6 years, 1 month ago

"You have to show ID to cash a check, but you don't have to produce any to vote?"

What do you get if you forge a check? Money for nothing.

What do you get if you vote in an election you aren't qualified to vote in? Nothing.

SettingTheRecordStraight 6 years, 1 month ago

bozo,

If you consider fraud to be "nothing," then you are correct.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 6 years, 1 month ago

"Remember a time, about 10 years ago, when we couldn't fathom anyone flying a jetliner into a skyscraper?"

Yea, someday they will fly an airliner into a polling station.

"It's easy to discount the possibilities as “nothing,” today—but what about 5 years from now? 10 years from now?"

Given that it would be impossible to organize non-citizens to vote illegally in numbers large enough to have any effect on the outcome of an election, this is a non-issue. There are many other issues that actually deserve our attention. This is just a distraction from people who would prefer that truly important issues not be addressed.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 6 years, 1 month ago

"Someone who went diving for identification would have to A) pick someone who was registered to vote and B) figure out at which polling station they are eligible to vote."

The fraudulent voter would also have to make sure to be the first in line to vote that day, since the odds are high that the real voter would eventually show up. If the fraudulent voter wasn't there first, polling officials would not only not allow them to vote, but would likely call law enforcement for the attempt to cast a fraudulent vote.

But heck, if you're a demagogue trying to whip up hysteria, you're not going to bother taking the 30 seconds required to think the above scenario through.

feeble 6 years, 1 month ago

Degener said he became engaged in the issue when he watched what he said were “illegal aliens” being encouraged to vote at a rally at the Capitol in 2006. “This is the United States of America, not Mexico, and only U.S. citizens should vote,” Degener said.

How did Degener know their immigration status? Why didn't he call ICE?

Sounds like someone angry at some people speaking "mexican" in the heartland of 'merica to me.

deskboy04 6 years, 1 month ago

There must have been a lot of voter fraud in the last election...that's the only way that my candidates could have lost. It couldn't have been because a majority of the people disagreed with their policies.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 6 years, 1 month ago

" Illegal voting is alive and well and will continue to flourish."

Well, no, it's not. There is zero evidence that's it's happening in any significant way. And the Minnesota election is just too close to call. We'll never know for sure who won that election-- illegal voting plays absolutely no part in that.

BigDog 6 years, 1 month ago

Bozo,

In Minnesota you have either incompetency or illegal voting ..... there were numerous precincts in Minnesota with more votes than there were people registered to vote in the precinct.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 6 years, 1 month ago

"there were numerous precincts in Minnesota with more votes than there were people registered to vote in the precinct."

If there is fraud (as opposed to just human or computer error) involved, it's almost certainly on the part of the vote counters, not the vote casters, upon which a voter ID requirement would have zero effect.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 6 years, 1 month ago

I'm not the one claiming that there is fraud, of any kind, involved in the Minnesota elections. I'm merely conjecturing that given that there is a) little to no evidence of fraud by individual voters in recent years and b) little motivation for anyone to do it, that it's much more likely that the sources of any problems in the Minnesota elections are to be found elsewhere.

So what's the evidence for your claims, Pilgrim? (not holding my breath.)

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 6 years, 1 month ago

"There has been a swing of less than 500 votes in the Minnesota re-count. Hell, that would be a bad day at the office for an outfit like Acorn."

Really? Given that there has been no evidence anywhere, ever, that ACORN has been involved in any sort of fraudulent voting, what is the basis for this statement?

"It CAN happen,"

Well, that can apply to all sorts of highly unlikely events.

"and you have no idea whether it is happening in Minnesota or not."

But you're the one making wild assumptions about what is going on in Minnesota, not me.

What I believe is happening is an election so close that their (and our) current election system is just plain inadequate to declare a winner with any certainty. Whoever is eventually seated will obtain it by something equivalent to a coin toss.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 6 years, 1 month ago

A seat belt actually prevents (or mitigates) something bad from happening. Voter ID laws don't. But they do have the effect of suppressing turnout of otherwise eligible voters, especially those pesky poor and/or old people who tend to vote the "wrong" way. It's easy to see why it's such a hot issue for you, Pilgrim.

markbr52 6 years, 1 month ago

There is a benefit to insuring that voters are "properly registered". People who are not properly registered probably aren't paying their proper taxes either. Every voter should have their residency verified and insure that they have registered their vehicles IN THE STATE and COUNTY.

Have you ever watched the tags at your polling place? I have. Probably 1 in 10 is out of county or out of state. These are tax dollars that are going the wrong direction or not being paid at all.

Why don't we have an officer at every polling place that observes and records for follow-up the tags that are not in county? Maybe we will be able to decrease taxes if all that should pay them do pay them!

Thinking_Out_Loud 6 years, 1 month ago

Marion wondered "Why should proof of identity not be required for voting?"

To which the answer is "Because I may not be disenfranchised without due process of law," of course. Innuendo such as that provided by Pilgrim2 not only involves a logical fallacy, but is blatantly unAmerican. I never have to prove that I am not breaking the law. The government must always make a case, if it has reason to believe I am, that I am indeed breaking the law. But I must be presumed innocent; I must be afforded due process; and I must not be disenfranchised without that due process.

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