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Archive for Sunday, June 28, 2009

Pastor welcomes guns and their owners to church

June 28, 2009

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— For one day, at least, it was OK to pack heat in church.

More than 200 people answered gun-toting Pastor Ken Pagano’s call to celebrate the Second Amendment at New Bethel Church in Louisville on Saturday. There was just one rule for the several dozen who brought their guns along: No bullets.

“We are wanting to send a message that there are legal, civil, intelligent and law-abiding citizens who also own guns,” Pagano said during the 90-minute event, which was open to the public. “If it were not for a deep-seated belief in the right to bear arms, this country would not be here today,” he told the crowd, drawing hearty applause and exclamations of “Amen!”

The “Open Carry Celebration” included a handgun raffle, patriotic music and screening of gun safety videos. Some gun owners carried old-fashioned six-shooters in leather holsters, while others packed modern police-style firearms. Kentucky allows residents to openly carry guns in public with some restrictions.

“I just believe in the right to protect ourselves,” said Liz Boyer, who had a bright pink Glock in a black holster at her side. The 41-year-old isn’t a member of the church but teaches a class on gun safety for women at a local range.

Brittany Rogers, 23, feared guns as a child. But her fiance encouraged her to go sport shooting with him about a year ago, and she said she has been hooked ever since. On Saturday, she brought her tiny Kel-Tec P-32 to church.

“It was a fear of the unknown,” Rogers said, “but now I love it.”

Pagano’s Protestant church, which attracts up to 150 people to Sunday services in a conservative neighborhood of southwest Louisville, belongs to the Assemblies of God. He thought up the event after some church members expressed concern about the Obama administration’s views on gun control, though the president hasn’t moved to put new restrictions on ownership.

Across town, a coalition of peace and church groups concerned about Pagano’s appeal to gun owners staged their own gun-free event.

“I think when people first learned about this invitation to wear guns to church, many people were deeply troubled,” said Terry Taylor, one of the organizers. “The idea of wearing guns to churches or any sacred space I think many people find deeply troubling.”

Pagano’s event also troubled his church’s longtime insurance carrier, which declined to insure the event and informed him it won’t renew the policy. He found a new carrier at a cost of $700 for the day, but guns had to be unloaded.

Despite that snag, he said the event went off without a hitch. Asked what type of gun he himself was carrying, he smiled and touched a bulge on his hip.

“Cell phone,” he said.

Comments

Flap Doodle 5 years, 2 months ago

Something designed by John Moses Browning, I'd say.

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jumpin_catfish 5 years, 2 months ago

Ok this is nuts, as much as I favor the right to bear arms, carrying a gun into a place of worship is crazy.

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RedwoodCoast 5 years, 2 months ago

I'm all for responsible firearm ownership, but it just seems to me that some people just go overboard with it. And what, exactly, is "patriotic" music? Seems like a song criticizing the "oh, gun, you complete me" crowd would be as "patriotic" as a "gun day." It's "patriotic" to exercise one's 1st amendment, too, you know.

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Christine Anderson 5 years, 2 months ago

But what happens if one of the gun bearers disagrees with the sermon....? What if members get into a heated discussion on a doctrinal issue-uh... I know the guns were to be brought into the church without bullets. Still, I wonder what the General Assemblies thought of this?( Governing body of Assemblies of God)

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timetospeakup 5 years, 2 months ago

@misplacedcheesehead - I know plenty of people that always carry a gun to church. they've never shot the clergy because they didn't like his sermon. Maybe their guns are all defective?

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Fred Whitehead Jr. 5 years, 2 months ago

Wow, what a mixture! Guns and looney religion. A lot of churches today are legitimately concerned with the affairs of the Divine, buty many are simply out to fleece the flock so they can build huge monuments to themsleves or to create TV programming or internet scams. You want these people to be armed? You have to be crazy to embrace this approach. This is a bad idea from the get-go and apart from all the imaginary religious concerns, is just plainly a stupid and dangerous idea

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1029 5 years, 2 months ago

Good for you, Pastor Pagano. Nothing wrong with a little self-esteem boost for some hard-working, undereducated, Kentucky simpletons. Them people work hard all day and then just got to sit by while Obama takes away there rights.

I like where Pagano says: “If it were not for a deep-seated belief in the right to bear arms, this country would not be here today". Has a more obvious statement ever been uttered? The people in this parish are true patriots and the next white person to be president should remember this story and give them all a medal of freedom or something.

By the way, I take my gun into church every Sunday. It's not because I'm scared. I just don't want to leave it out in the hot car these days and I like to take it with me on the drive to shoot at signs and stuff on the way.

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tangential_reasoners_anonymous 5 years, 2 months ago

(Well, if that doesn't increase attendance, we can alway offer free ammo... onward Christian soldiers!)

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SettingTheRecordStraight 5 years, 2 months ago

The supposedly open-minded and tolerant on the Far Left are displaying their true prejudices today.

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denak 5 years, 2 months ago

The problem I have with this is that it is contrary to what Jesus stood for and who he was. When Jesus came on the scene, there were numerous groups, both agressive and pacifistic that were fighting for the rights of the Jews. The Jews were looking for a Messiah which is a title of a warrior. If one reads the Gospel of Mark, His own apostles were a little upset that He was not more aggressive. His path of non-violence wasn't appreciated among the general populace. This is one of the reasons Barabus was pick for the Pascual Amnesty and not Jesus. Barabus wasn't a common murderer as so often depicted. Barabus had killed a Roman soldier and to the general Jewish population this made him much more of hero then some itenerant preacher who was teaching love and non-violence.

To try to tie Christianity into the 2A is historically and theologically incompatiable. That isn't to say that an individual doesn't have the "right to bear arms" (although that is still up to debate" but to try to link them together in a bid to make both more legitimate, is stretching it just a bit.

Dena

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jumpin_catfish 5 years, 2 months ago

Its one thing for security to be armed and I understand why a church might want or need security but just anybody packin' heat at church. Jesus drove the money changers out of the house of prayer, so Marion what do you think the Lord would do with a bunch a pistol packers? I would think a minister and his elders would work to insure that guns didn't come into the church.

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vega 5 years, 2 months ago

Anybody noticed that the guns were unloaded :

"Pagano’s event also troubled his church’s longtime insurance carrier, which declined to insure the event and informed him it won’t renew the policy. He found a new carrier at a cost of $700 for the day, but guns had to be unloaded."

:))))

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purplesage 5 years, 2 months ago

This qualifies as mixing religion and politics for sure.

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bearded_gnome 5 years, 2 months ago

okay, Jesus also said: he that lives by the sword shall die by the sword.

purplesage: yep, mixing religion and politics and I wonder just what passage from the Bible that pastor preached on that day?


Pagano’s Protestant church, which attracts up to 150 people to Sunday services in a conservative neighborhood of southwest Louisville, belongs to the Assemblies of God. He thought up the event after some church members expressed concern about the Obama administration’s views on gun control, though the president hasn’t moved to put new restrictions on ownership.

article misrepresents this church, and smears all "protestant" churches.
these are pentecostal or charismatic christians, a blight on true christianity. most of the slime on the Trinity Broadcasting Network comes from such churches. false prophets all over the place, false prosperity doctrine, false concepts of salvation, faith, and prayer.
There are many very healthy "protestant" or "conservative christian" churches not given over to the sound and fury of the pentecostal churches.
bet this "pastor" "speaks in tongues" etc.

Locally Clinton Parkway Assembly of God, Mustard Seed, and Morningstar, are such churches.

when I first heard this story in the news, I just cringed, because I knew that it would be fodder for the antichristian bigots.

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jumpin_catfish 5 years, 2 months ago

...Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword. Matt. 26:52. Matthew 5...38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: 39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40 And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloak also. 41 And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain. 42 Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away. 43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. 44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; 45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. 46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same? 47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so? 48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

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staff04 5 years, 2 months ago

"the Bible does not, nor has it ever siad “Thou shalt not kill”!

That is a mis-translation.

The Bible says “Thous shalt do no unlawful murder.”!

Big difference folks, but believe what you like if it makes you feel better."

Marion, I recognize that you don't cite religious reasons for your opposition to abortion, but I hope you recognize the irony you are presenting here...but believe what you like if it makes you feel better! Ha!

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timetospeakup 5 years, 2 months ago

Liberal's don't get it. People don't carry guns for an ego boost, they carry them in case, god forbid, they need to defened themselves or the ones they love.

Jesus directed the strong to protect the weak. If carrying a gun so you can protect your family and children doesn't fit that bill, what did you guys have in mind?

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lctchr1 5 years, 2 months ago

Is anyone surprised by this? Really?

Separation of Church and State protects Christians, unfortunately, most Christians don't grasp this.

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gphawk89 5 years, 2 months ago

My pastor used a shotgun as part of one of his sermons a couple of years ago. I don't remember exactly what the point was, but it sure got everyones attention. I remember watching the crowd duck in unison several times as he swung the barrel around the room.

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Left_handed 5 years, 2 months ago

Actually, Jesus told his disciples to carry swords (the 1st century equivalent of a gun) when He was preparing to be taken to the cross. It was just before His prayer in Gethsemene. Reference is Luke 22:36.

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jimmyjms 5 years, 2 months ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

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coolmom 5 years, 2 months ago

i do not believe this pastor means for every sunday to be a parade of guns but mainly a support of what some of his flock were concerned about. i think that every law abiding citizen should have the right to carry a gun if they so desire when all the guns are taken away wont it be the law abiding citizens who no longer have them? the police cannot as much as they try be everywhere for everyone. reasonable and reality and common sense are words that should be considered here.

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gogoplata 5 years, 2 months ago

I bet Dr. Tiller wished he had a gun in church that day.

Church Shootings across America

July 08' saw a gunman open fire in the Unitarian Universalist Church in Knoxville, TN. In that case the gunman opened fire during a children's production of "Annie," his shots killing two and wounding seven. In December of 07' a gunman killed two at a Colorado missionary training center and then drove to a Denver megachurch where he killed two sisters before being shot to death by an armed security guard. The former police officer who shot the suspect said she prayed as she squeezed the trigger that stopped the spree killer's murderous rampage. The church had added extra armed security, mainly from their own membership, after the shooting the day before. Florida, Missouri, Idaho, Louisiana, Michigan, Maryland, Texas, Wisconsin, California and Georgia also saw church shootings in the last decade to total at least 20 such incidents at places of worship. Jewish schools, Islamic Centers, and other similar institutions have also been witness to violence by persons choosing to act out at the tip of a gun barrel; not to rob or steal, but to wound and kill.

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Flap Doodle 5 years, 2 months ago

marioni has a realy lousy track record for outing people on LJW.

Isn't that so, girlfriend?

Still

having

a

wonderful

internet

life

.

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Satirical 5 years, 2 months ago

Guns and alcohol are the cause and solution to all of life's problems.

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beatrice 5 years, 2 months ago

Yet one more reason not to go to church.

bearded: "okay, Jesus also said: he that lives by the sword shall die by the sword."

Does this mean all those with guns should thus be shot? That seems harsh.

And Jesus said, "Go ahead. Make my day!" - Colt 4:5

Like so many other so-called "men of God," this pastor is nothing more than a publicity whore. I hope the large insurance premium he must pay drives his "church" out of business.

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RoeDapple 5 years, 2 months ago

Never seen so many people get so worked up over such a non-event. "200 guns in church and no shots fired!" Wow! Think I'll go back to watching Billy Mays on CNN.

(Good afternoon bea)

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denak 5 years, 2 months ago

"....Actually, Jesus told his disciples to carry swords (the 1st century equivalent of a gun) when He was preparing to be taken to the cross. It was just before His prayer in Gethsemene. Reference is Luke 22:36....."

Mmmmmm, no He didn't. Not in Luke 22:36. The following is Luke 22:36.

Then he said to them, "But now whoever has a wallet must take it along, and his traveling bag, too. And the one who has no sword must sell his coat and buy one.

GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995) Then he said to them, "But now, the person who has a wallet and a traveling bag should take them along. The person who doesn't have a sword should sell his coat and buy one.

King James Bible Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

American King James Version Then said he to them, But now, he that has a purse, let him take it, and likewise his money: and he that has no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

American Standard Version And he said unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise a wallet; and he that hath none, let him sell his cloak, and buy a sword.

Bible in Basic English And he said to them, But now, he who has a money-bag, or a bag for food, let him take it: and he who has not, let him give his coat for money and get a sword.

When Jesus talks to the Apostles about arming themselves, He isn't talking about a steel sword but the Sword of the Spirit. In fact, later when Peter cuts of the ear of a roman soldier, Jesus rebukes him for resorting to violence.

Dena

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compmd 5 years, 2 months ago

"It's stupid to believe that anything has happened to the Second Amendment because Barack Obama was elected President."

Have you seen firearm and ammo prices since last October? The gun store owners are all going to be able to retire to the Bahamas come 2012 or 2016. Crazies are hording ammo and leaving none on the market for those who legitimately want to practice, are sport/target shooters, or just want to have some for personal defense. Go to Walmart and look on the ammo rack. The mid-range rifle ammo is always sold out these days.

I'm a proponent of legal firearm ownership and carrying, but I think that this stunt was ridiculously stupid. It furthers the stereotype that gun owners are deranged faux-Christian wackjobs ready to shoot anything that looks at them funny. This whole ordeal disgusts me.

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gogoplata 5 years, 2 months ago

You miss the point. The insane gunmen are not to be imitated. Turning churches into shooting galleries is not the answer. Working on the insanity is where the focus should be.

I don't see us getting rid of insanity anytime soon. So I'll protect myself from the insane with a gun.

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compmd 5 years, 2 months ago

Ah, but alas RoeDapple, you can't reload for an HK G3. :(

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George_Braziller 5 years, 2 months ago

This is just stupid. It's like strapping a concrete block to your back just to prove you can do it. What's the point?


"There was just one rule for the several dozen who brought their guns along: No bullets"

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gyroduck 5 years, 2 months ago

I wonder how many people loaded their guns anyway and just didn't announce it?

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