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Archive for Tuesday, July 21, 2009

Two teens accused of sex crimes involving other children

July 21, 2009

Lawrence police this week announced the arrests of two teenagers accused of sex crimes against children in their family.

A 14-year-old girl and a 15-year-old boy, both of Lawrence, were taken into custody July 6.

The girl was arrested and charged with felony aggravated criminal sodomy and two counts of felony aggravated indecent liberties with a 3-year-old boy.

She was arrested after reportedly having sexual relations with the child in May at a home on the north side of Lawrence, police said. The suspect and victim in the case are related, court records said.

Douglas County prosecutors charged the 15-year-old suspect with two counts of felony aggravated indecent liberties with a child.

Police said they’re investigating alleged sexual relations between the suspect, a 14-year-old girl and an 11-year-old girl, who are all known to each other. The crimes allegedly occurred between 2005 and 2009 at a home on the north side of Lawrence, police said.

Both suspects, who live in the same home, pleaded not guilty to the charges during July 9 arraignment hearings. They were taken to the Douglas County Juvenile Detention Center, where they’re being held pending Aug. 19 court hearings, court records said.

Comments

iguessuknowho 4 years, 8 months ago

onasis, and denak

i apreciate your perspective on this, i apologize if you may have thought that i was including you in with all the other comments. you all seem like real people, idk.... i guess what you're saying means something when put against all the other comments on here. sorry if you two felt generalized.

for the record, commenting on what i said on this page is irrelovent, seeing as i have no plans on returning to this page in the future. the only reason i looked this up is because of the tear-filled conversation i had with my mom prior to my commenting here. after leaving my first comment i read the rest of all of yours. other than the two mentioned at the top of this comment, the "i hate all of you" applies to you. onasis, and denak, once again, not you two but the rest of you can all die tomorrow. i hope your bored kids dont spend their inheritance(misspelled?) on things their Jesus-Christ's-second-cousin parents wouldnt aprove of, like public schools (whatEVER the hell that has to do withthis...)

damn, these get to be too lengthy, all im trying to say is; you too, i dont hate you for your comments, but the rest of you can go to hell in a kerosene suit or gown

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iguessuknowho 4 years, 8 months ago

hey, this is the oldest brother of the two charged in this article, and the father of one of the victimes. hows evrybody doing? first of all id like to say that i agree with the people saying that the events posted in this article were horrible, thats pretty obvious, otherwise jesse fray wouldnt have thought it necessary to write anything about it. This all effected my entire (even distant) family in a way none of you could imagine. my mom is actually scared to look up all of your comments on this page right here. i was pretty pissed myself, seeing this as a major family catastrophe, rather than a community gossip issue.

i think a lot of you bloggers just saw this as something else to post yout oppinion on, not thinking about the rest of the family that is Not to blame, Not at fault, and Not incarserated(misspelled), meaning that they are in the midst of all the things you are taking the liberty of stating your feelings on; my mom, dad; Brother and Sister (who i know messed up on a MAJOR scale, but hey, some of your teens do coke and meth, so realize nobodys perfect).

i guess what im saying is that if you really feel that this all is necessary to write about (mr. fray, and all you bold bloggers out there) maybe who you should talk about to it is your Children, rather than meaningless people on the internet who dont even post any name with their comments other than anonymous.

i honestly wish that you all would have thought about if your children were the ones in this article. i know they weren't, but If they were; would you want the community blogging about it ultimately doing nothing but hurt to those involved; or possibly talking to their family about it, IN PERSON, ultimately preventing the same thing from happening again; or maybe even just letting it go, throwing a "did you read that article in the paper" to their spouse, leaving your family in their own misery that is already almost insurmountable(possibly misspelled) and not driving them so far into the ground that the mother of the children feels like society hates her and thinks "she should be jailed also?!?!" for working her "behind" off so we (her kids) can live like all of you that are ceo's of this or owners of that.

i want all of you know that we feel the same about the events that ocurred, but the oppinions on the punishment served, and the like... we wish you would keep those to yourself.

also i would like to share my oppinion that i personally hate all of you that talked bad about my family. i wish they would put your familys worst flaws on the internet as a blog topic so i could post up my oppinions on how bad your parenting skills are also, but whether you understand it or not, my mom taught me better.

you all have a nice day and know that you can sleep satisfied, because you successfully destroyed what was left of my family. you are all in my prayers, well they would be if i prayed anymore.

     - one Pissed off resident of your town
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denak 4 years, 9 months ago

".....Doesn't surprise me given the location of the alleged events…"

So, I am to take it from this statement that children in north lawrence are being sexually abused on such a large scale that we can now make the assumption that children in East, South and West Lawrence are safe.

Sadly, that isn't true at all. The reality is that all the "rich" kids in west Lawrence are probably in more danger than the poor kids in North Lawrence simply because children of richer parents are better able to fight charges and explain away "problems" and because people think better of rich folks. But their kids are getting abused just as much. The only difference is that Mom or Dad can blame little Jenny's bruises on gymnastic lessons.

It is a fact that children are more in danger from their parents then they are from the stereotypical guy in a trench coat or an internet predator.

So, please, lets not make assumptions about children are more likely to be abused.

Dena

P.S. I would like to thank those who thanked me for being a foster parent. However, I am not special. Anyone with the desire to help a child can be a foster parent in Ks. Gay, straight, married, single, male, female. KVC has the foster care contrat for KC. The Farm for Topeka. Since we are in the middle. Take your pick. Call one of them. Kvc's number is 331-4200. TFI (or The Farm) number is 877-942-2239.

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OeraLinda 4 years, 9 months ago

Prove home school children are learning something? Like all children in public school are? At least you know they are safe and who is influencing them.

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Tex 4 years, 9 months ago

"If any such program ever came into existance, I'd expect all parents who home school their kids to earn some sort of certification to show that they know what they are doing."

My high school history class: we were discussing some aspect of early American history. Several people in the class are asking the teacher questions, and she is growing visibly frustrated. Finally she says,"Guys, I'm only about 3 pages ahead of you all in this book." For what it's worth, I went to a "good" high school.

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mdrndgtl 4 years, 9 months ago

Doesn't surprise me given the location of the alleged events...

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workinghard 4 years, 9 months ago

I have seen good homeschoolers, but I have also seen situations were the children were not being taught at all. If you see such situations, report them, and the parents could be ordered to send the kids to school or prove they are educating them. I spent thousands every year homeschooling my child but it was worth it. It is the same as sending your child to private schools, that's your choice. Public school is not for everyone. I wish Lawrence had the Virtual school back then, it would have saved me a fortune. Oeralinda needs to utilize the Virtual School and get some use of her school tax money. I thought shortly after we stopped, they had added some sort of tax break on the income tax returns, but I could be wrong.

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Kookamooka 4 years, 9 months ago

It's all the sex they see justified on TV and through Hip/hop music. Most of it is explicit. When TJ Maxx sells thongs for 4 and 5 year old girls, (which they do-or did in the past) there is something wrong with our "American" culture. It's all about illicit sex. Kids are BOMBARDED by it.

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ProudDad 4 years, 9 months ago

If the charges are accurate...sad. However, the rush to judgment and conviction is truly sad.

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compmd 4 years, 9 months ago

"As a member of society, I'm disgusted and outraged. Who's to blame for this?? It's a sick world we live in…"

What's sick is your immediate jump to "who's to blame for this??" How about instead you, as a member of society, deal with the people who actually did what bothers you before you start pointing fingers and making wild assumptions.

God, people. Chill out. This is [unfortunately] not that uncommon. Its just that nobody cares until its in their backyard. If you want to be bothered about something, be bothered about the fact that the state has charged high school underclassmen with felony sex crimes for acts they are accused of committing in their home with their family. Be bothered about the fact that the state is using such tactics over the actions of minors inside the family home.

I'm not saying what the kids are accused of doing isn't wrong, but you have to ask yourself why such measures are being taken, and why there is no family comment.

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kugrad 4 years, 9 months ago

Watch the movie "Jesus Camp" and see how great a job some parents are not doing in home "schooling" their children. There are plenty who do a fantastic job too, but the scary ones are out there.

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middlemgmt 4 years, 9 months ago

I'm sure there are some parents who do a great job at home schooling. On the flip, there is nothing wrong with our public schools. They give a great education. There are many parents who home school that do not give a proper education. I think kids learn much more when they are in a group of peers.

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kugrad 4 years, 9 months ago

Oeralinda, your comments are just wrong. There is no data that supports your claims. You claim about a "good number" of teachers being predators is way out of line and demonstrably false. Far less child abuse occurs in a public school setting than in other settings. A very, very small percentage of all sexual abuse involving adults occurs in school settings. Most teachers care a great deal about their students. In fact, it is often a teacher who first spots sexual abuse and reports it or to whom a child first confides in when being abused. Sure, there are some poor teachers, just like there are some poor hairdressers, dentists, parents, truck drivers, police officers, ditch diggers and every other profession. Your sweeping generalizations are completely off-base

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Jersey_Girl 4 years, 9 months ago

Nope, sorry, Linda. Then we'll have to give people who don't own cars their taxes back for not using the roadways and people who have never used public assistance their money back and so on and so forth. If I die before I turn 65, should my family get the money I paid into Social Security back? I don't think families should get government vouchers to send their kids to private school and I don't think you should get a voucher to keep your kids home. If our public schools suck so much, perhaps more taxes should be going into them in effort to improve them rather than back into the pockets of people who don't use them.

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meggers 4 years, 9 months ago

I don't have kids. Do I get my money back, too?

Cool.

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OeraLinda 4 years, 9 months ago

No I just want the money I pay into the public school system back, to go towards my child’s education even if it is in a safe and caring home environment. Pretty radical huh?

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Onasis 4 years, 9 months ago

Irish I agree that if these teens were abused that needs to be investigated and charged as well. However, we are all responsible for our own actions and these two should be held to that as well. I do also agree with someone earlier who posted that they need additional help than just being locked up. They needed that help when they went into this foster home if that is where it happened at. It simply is not enough to take kids from a home, we must also give them resources and help to recover from the traumatic things they have been through that led them there. (A funding and staffing issue within SRS.)

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Jersey_Girl 4 years, 9 months ago

Linda - seriously? You want the government to pay you to home school your kids? Right. That's where I want my taxes to go. If any such program ever came into existance, I'd expect all parents who home school their kids to earn some sort of certification to show that they know what they are doing.

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Leslie Swearingen 4 years, 9 months ago

I too would like to think Dena for doing what she is to help children. These people were caught and action is being taken to punish them and try to make sure they don't do it again. It seems to me that if you believe that those who have been abused abuse in turn then you would have to go back to the original first cause to have someone to blame.

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roger_gilchrist 4 years, 9 months ago

OeraLinda.... Maybe you should get your facts straight before making such accusations. You talk crazy talk. I think you may need some professional help.

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Onasis 4 years, 9 months ago

Educate yourself on the signs of child abuse. There is a lot of literature out there for it. It is great that teachers and other professionals are trained in this, but why not train yourself. It might save someone else's child, or it might save your own. Like I said, child abuse knows no stranger, and your child definitely is no stranger to it. Here is one great website: http://www.childwelfare.gov/pubs/factsheets/signs.cfm

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OeraLinda 4 years, 9 months ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

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Jersey_Girl 4 years, 9 months ago

I don't know, Linda. Where do you think these kids go to school? And frankly, public schools employees are part of the system set up to help discover abuse. If your kids are being home-schooled and abused by someone, how do you know that you'll recognize the signs? I'd rather my kids be at public school, where professions are trained to notice abuse symptoms than to be positive that I know everything and miss out on something.

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meggers 4 years, 9 months ago

OreaLinda,

Actually, there have been a number of cases in which abusive parents have homeschooled their children solely to avoid inquiries into their whacked out so-called 'parenting' tactics. Not to mention, the abuse occurred in the home, and not at school. Or do you not allow your children to play with other children at all?

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NervousTick 4 years, 9 months ago

OreaLinda,

I to thank God for home schooling but what will happen when these home schooled kids have to meet the real world and see the kind of people they been deprived from?

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ksdivakat 4 years, 9 months ago

I just want to say to Dena that you are an awesome person to take in these kids and give them love and support in the most trying time of their lives. You are truly a hero, not many people can do it, and not many want to do it, as the foster care system is suffering, so I just wanted to say thank you for what you do, it is honorable and good!

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OeraLinda 4 years, 9 months ago

These are the kids you expect me to send my children to school with? Thank God for home schooling.

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wedabest 4 years, 9 months ago

kansas- getting more like missouri everyday

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Onasis 4 years, 9 months ago

This is appalling first of all. I too, question where the adults were in the house. I always tell people If you aren't sure if you want to leave your child with someone - family/friend/neighbor/anyone - A good tip to go by is if you can't trust the person with $10,000 of cash... then don't trust them to be alone with your child. Your child is worth more than money.

Second ... maybe this story will help to educate the community on child abuse. Most of the time it is someone the family knows and trusts. It is not always boys/men doing it to girls.... as the 14 yr old girl and 3 yr old boy show. It does not happen to only those in foster care, or drug/alcoholic homes, or low income neighborhoods. Child abuse knows no gender, no race, no income level, no stranger. It happens to the rich, the poor, the church going folks, and probably in your neighbor's house. The abusers can be very good manipulators, so they appear to be "normal", caring, and loving, and they will threaten the child to keep them silenced. Silence is the abuser's power. And it is EVERYONE'S job to help protect our children and give them a voice. If you suspect a child is being abused report it. You can even do so annonymously. Call Kansas Protection Report Center at 1-800-922-5330 - 24 hrs a day. If you don't report it, who will? And how will it ever stop? Don't say it isn't my child or family, so it isn't my business. Child abuse is your business. Child abuse is EVERYONE's business. Stand up for a child!

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Pywacket 4 years, 9 months ago

Sounds like R_I is another Engrish.com fan! I have the "spilled milk" t-shirt and want several others.

Yes--they were probably abused themselves. I am generally in favor of harsh penalties for this sort of thing, no questions asked, but given the ages of the accused, and the dearth of background information publicly presented at this time, I can't possibly presume to assign either condemnation or sympathy this time.

There is undoubtedly a horrific pandora's box of background information that will come into play--involving the people who (allegedly) raised the 14- and 15-year-olds and who preyed upon them or let them be preyed upon by other adults.

If either or both of the accused have been habitually abused from earliest childhood--and, obviously, the abuse would be mental and emotional as well as sexual--they may truly be as much victims as the younger children they in turn victimized. Their contact with younger children may have been more of an act of misplaced rage, resentment, assertion of some sense of power over their own bodies, or other form of acting out than a knowing and willful act of abuse. (Obviously, for their young victims, this makes no difference--the cycle has continued.)

I hope that the court will have access to all the circumstances of these children's lives and judge their cases wisely. At the very least, this should be a one-strike-and-you're-out situation for whatever idiot adults were running that household. And they should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. All the children involved should never ever ever have contact again with any of the adults who were supposed to love them, protect them, and see that they got a good start in life. Catastrophic failure!

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wedabest 4 years, 9 months ago

"Kids are exposed to sex more then ever and at a younger age: movies, tv shows, porn, video games"

did you really just blame video games for this? the things you listed are all the responsibility of the parents to monitor, ofcourse in this case it would seem likely to assume that the parents are pretty screwed up themselves, if they are even around at all.

simply stunning

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denak 4 years, 9 months ago

ejayhawk,

We had all of that 25-30 years ago. What we didn't have 25-30 years ago was an atmosphere that allowed for victims of sexual crimes to come forward.

25-30 years ago we would have had up to 4 victims suffering in silence because the families "dirty little secret" was swept under the rug.

I agree that there are too many sexual message out there for kids today. I'm not faulting you on that.

But when you say 25-30 years ago, we wouldn't even be having this talk. You are right but not for the reasons you think.

Dena

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kthxbi 4 years, 9 months ago

Yes, the story screams of abuse, no question. But I was just thinking maybe the boy told on the girl, and in retribution she told on him for something. I mean she was accused of violating a toddler.

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OldEnuf2BYurDad 4 years, 9 months ago

There is obviously a lot going on here. A three year old sodomized and other events going back to before the 3 year old was even born (2005). What we have here is some kids who are involved in a pattern of behavior, a culture of sexual abuse. And yes, these kids didn't just come up with this on their own - someone has shown/taught them this, or they were similarly perpetrated themselves. Absolutely.

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denak 4 years, 9 months ago

As a foster parent for the last 6 years, I can not tell you how many times I have gotten referrals for children who were victims of sexual abuse, who then turn around and victimize other children. That is why I won't have two children who have sexualized behaviors in my home at the same time.

It is a sad, sad reality.

And fixing the situation isn't usually as easy as saying they should have the book thrown at them. They need years and years of intensive therapy.

These children literally have no concept of boundaries, personal space, consent and a whole host of other issues.

I hope if it comes to light that these teens were sexually abused that they will get the help they need.

I'm not saying that shouldn't face the crimianl justice system..just that these aren't easy cases and prosecuting them shouldn't be the only option.

Dena

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kthxbi 4 years, 9 months ago

I'm from Lawrence. But They didn't say it was intercourse. It might have just been... I don't know.

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edjayhawk 4 years, 9 months ago

Doesn't surprise me given the decline of our current society and how it views morals. Kids are exposed to sex more then ever and at a younger age: movies, tv shows, porn, video games, etc...All of these resources and vices are deemed okay by modern society. We wouldn't be even having this talk 25 or 30 years ago.

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Jersey_Girl 4 years, 9 months ago

Also, the article says the crimes were committed sometime between 2005 and 2009. If they did start in 2005, then even the boy was only 11 and the girl was 10. Surely that screams of abuse.

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Jersey_Girl 4 years, 9 months ago

I agree that the accused were also likely abused somewhere along the line.

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meggers 4 years, 9 months ago

This sounds like it might be a foster care situation, although the article doesn't provide much clarity. In the first sentence, it says the 15-year-old was charged with sex crimes against children in his own family, but then later, it seems to imply that the 11-year-old and 14-year-old that he's charged with sexually assaulting aren't related to him.

In any case, a shockingly sad story. I predict the AP will pick this story up and it'll be fodder for the 24/7 talking heads before long.

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woodenfleaeater 4 years, 9 months ago

kthxbi says: "This was not so uncommon when I was 14."

An 11 year old sleeping with somone wasn't uncommon? Where are you from again?

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basketballer 4 years, 9 months ago

Wow, I can't believe that.....no words.......

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kusp8 4 years, 9 months ago

"Missouri where family relations have a special meaning"...this schiet keeps coming up in Kansas Joe College'll have to print a shirt about Kansas.

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kthxbi 4 years, 9 months ago

wrong is wrong, and maybe I am missing something, but it looks like all the boy did was have sexual relations with girl a year younger who was not related to him, and (way creepier I admit) a girl four years younger who is not related to him. This was not so uncommon when I was 14.

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roger_gilchrist 4 years, 9 months ago

R_I.. It sounds like someone needs a shower!

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rodentgirl16 4 years, 9 months ago

Sigmund, I think you're absolutely right. These children are likely using the victims to regain some of the control that they lost when they were abused. I suspect that the parents, if they are in the picture, are being closely looked at by police.

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RETICENT_IRREVERENT 4 years, 9 months ago

Sigmund, Moneyline odds of -1000000, its not worth the bet.

Wrong is wrong, so these adolescents need to bear the full brunt of the punishment if these accusations are proven true, but the parents or guardians need to be investigated too.

I smell the smelly smell of something that smells smelly...

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kansasfan21 4 years, 9 months ago

As a parent, I cannot even imagine the possibility that this could happen to my children. As a member of society, I'm disgusted and outraged. Who's to blame for this?? It's a sick world we live in...

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puddleglum 4 years, 9 months ago

wha-wha-what? jesus, it seems like more and more people from missouri move here everyday.

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Sigmund 4 years, 9 months ago

Who wants to bet that both of these kids were subjected to sexual abuse themselves?

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roger_gilchrist 4 years, 9 months ago

Great parenting! You must be proud of the job you did raising your kids!! The parents should be arrested as well!

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Ashley Shoemaker 4 years, 9 months ago

wow...wtf is this world coming to?

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