Archive for Sunday, January 11, 2009

Smoking stand

Although local smoking bans have encountered initial resistance, their popularity clearly is spreading across the state. It’s time for legislators to consider a statewide ban.

January 11, 2009

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The number of Kansas communities that have passed or are considering smoking bans fuels discussion of legislation that would impose such a ban statewide.

However, the many differences in the local laws being approved raise questions about whether this should be a statewide issue or kept at the local level.

A statewide ban would have the advantage of standardizing the laws across the state, but it’s also possible that any smoking ban that could muster broad legislative support would be so watered down that it wouldn’t address the concerns of many communities.

Previous legislative efforts to pass a statewide ban have resulted in laws that died under the weight of numerous exemptions that caused supporters to lose their enthusiasm for the bills.

The local laws passed in various communities illustrate some of the problems with making this a statewide issue.

A petition drive reportedly is forming to protest the smoking ban recently passed in Emporia. That law would ban smoking in all public places and businesses, including bars and restaurants, but offers a rather large loophole by exempting private offices where the public isn’t frequently invited.

Salina was one of the first Kansas communities to pass a smoking ban. Their ban applies to restaurants but allows smoking in outdoor eating areas and indoors between the less family-friendly hours of 9 p.m. and 5 a.m. Now, however, Salina commissioners are considering a ban more like the one in Lawrence that prohibits smoking in almost all public buildings.

One bill introduced in the Legislature last year would have forced counties to vote on a smoking ban in much the same way they voted on liquor by the drink. That has the benefit of forcing the issue in communities that might not otherwise have discussed it, but it still imposes a one-size-fits-all solution for the state. It’s clear that almost any statewide ban would have to allow communities to supersede the state law with more stringent local regulations.

Smoking, of course, is a personal choice, but with all the evidence about the dangers of secondhand smoke, many people believe the time for a statewide ban has come. Those of us who live with and appreciate the Lawrence smoking ban agree.

This is a health issue. Legislators should stand up, as many local officials have, and pass a meaningful statewide smoking ban.

Comments

davidsmom 6 years, 5 months ago

Many states have statewide smoking bans (http://www.smokefreeworld.com/usa.shtml) There is no reason why it can't eventually happen in Kansas.

Godot 6 years, 5 months ago

Good heavens, just go ahead and shut down the tobacco industry.

somebodynew 6 years, 5 months ago

No kidding beo - I little early in the day for that kind of vitrol.

BuffyloGal 6 years, 5 months ago

Your logic is truly astounding at times XD.

SMe 6 years, 5 months ago

"Tell Saint Peter at the Golden GateThat you hate to make him waitBut you gotta have another cigarette"about half the country singers ever

tangential_reasoners_anonymous 6 years, 5 months ago

Haven't we figured this out?Seems I recall an assessment in one of the popular rags, some years ago that (paraphrase)..."Tobacco is the only substance regulated by the FDA which, when used as indicated, results in disease and death." [The issue of regulation by FDA--on gain, off again--may be unresolved at present.]

ASBESTOS 6 years, 5 months ago

You know htis "second hand smoke" and the smoking ban is very irrational. This is clearly an "anti smoking political agenda", and not based in science, and I will prove it. Now I am an ex smoker and cannot stand the odor of cigarette smoke on people and I feel great after 4 years of not smoking. I also think that everyone should quit smiking as well so with those conditions established here goes:If smoking in public is so bad why are fireplaces and wood burning heaters allowed? You take the amount of smoke and particles emitted from a fireplace it it easly ihas more chemicals in it, and there is more material burned, and there is a greater weight of particles emitted by the fireplace.So if people are really so correct in eliminating public smoking, then by that same logic fireplaces in bars and public areas whould be banned, as well as those fire pits and chimenia's in one's back yard. Think of the emissions of a cord of wood as opposed to goiing though say 30 packs of cigarettes in the same time.

Chris Ogle 6 years, 5 months ago

Cough, cough..... What is the big deal. I (coughing) smoke all the time. Just be careful.... oxygen and smoking could be the big boom.

ASBESTOS 6 years, 5 months ago

"2) Fireplaces and wood-burning heaters have this amazing feature called a flue that carries all the smoke out of the room in which the fire is burning."Negavite there Logs ole buddy. Any professional in the Indoor Air Quaility industry "knows" about the particulate load from fireplaces. That is why houses with fireplaces "smell like smoke". And "no" the flue does not carry "all the smoke" out, it carries most of it, but still look at the amount that is burned. Lood at the amout of particulate that is generated when "celaning the ash" from the fireplace. You may not accept that but it is a "big ash tray" for the sepnt combustion material.It matters not what "smoke" particulates come from nor what produces. This illustrates the "selectivism" that is so rampant in our society. Coal burning Bad, smoking bad, fireplaces Good, gas water heaters good, on and on without qualification and quantification of all the measurements.Your respose shows me that you do "talk" and think later. Burning cords of wood puts a major particulate load i a house or any other structure and it is a known fact in the IAQ community that does these measures."""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""Not even close to a valid comparison. One is public, the other is private."In "your" opinion, what about the neighbors where the smoke drifts to? I had a guy fire up a smoker next door to me and he nearly gassed me out of the house over the weekend. SO that is NOt your decisoin to make, and additionally "trans boundry pollution" is still an unwanted emission that moves offsite.Learn a bit more about environmental measurement and vocabulary before you make such stupid statments.I was just trying to compare these, and your response shows you do not think, and you do not have an open mind.I knew you would make this response, it is why I posted it.""""""""""""""""""""""""""""The issue is not just the fact that smoking is bad for you. The issue is that it's bad for everyone around you as well."Then you have to include Marijuana. Is ios burning vegetation and inhaleing it and then emitting the particulates out into the air.That was the point of fireplaces and you can thorw in joints, they are all burning vegetation and fireplaces at higher rates, yet smoking is singled out.Leave it to the progressive pot smokers to "ban cigarette smoking" yet want to legalize weed smoking.Incoherent? Absolutely.

ASBESTOS 6 years, 5 months ago

"By contrast, marijuana which is not addictive and has many medical benefits is not just restricted."It is addictive, even if you smoke it and you don't know you are addicted. It is psycoactive, absolutely it is "addictive", but don't take my word for it, take the medical community's word:http://www.addict-help.com/marijuana-addiction.asphttp://www.drug-rehab.com/marijuana-addiction.htmhttp://www.spencerrecovery.com/marijuana-addiction.htmlYou believe Dr. Drew?http://www.theantidrug.com/drug_info/marijuana-and-mental-health-expert-advice.asphttp://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=54633http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=54633Denial is not just a river in Egypt, it is a major psycological probelm that allows an addictive personality to rationalize their drug abuse.Wise up.

Confrontation 6 years, 5 months ago

It's hilarious to watch the smokers comment on here. It's obvious which ones haven't had their "fix" for the hour. Nic rage.

tangential_reasoners_anonymous 6 years, 5 months ago

I routinely build wood fires in my home during the winter with NO compromise of indoor air quality. I can't stand beside someone who is smoking without it impairing my ability to breathe.

ASBESTOS 6 years, 5 months ago

"I routinely build wood fires in my home during the winter with NO compromise of indoor air quality."Did you measure it with a particle counter? Probably not. Lighthouse makes the better ones."I can't stand beside someone who is smoking without it impairing my ability to breathe."Neither can I, because I do like the "fireplace smoke odor" and hate the cigarette odor. But burning stuff is burning stuff and it all puts particulates in the air, whether you accept that or not does not change the physical constraits of burning materials. And that fireplace does produce lots of partculates, again whether you accept it or not, it does."""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""It's hilarious to watch the smokers comment on here. "I don't smoke and make people that do want to smoke cigarettes, thay have to go outside. I can still smell it in the yard. But again, burning things buts particulates in the air.Refuse to believe it but that is just like the creationists hollering about evolution. Science "measures" things, and oalthough most of us like fireplace smoke odor, it is there because the particulates and oils and compounds in the wood are being releases.we can go on to bar-b-qs as well.

tangential_reasoners_anonymous 6 years, 5 months ago

T: “... I can't stand beside someone who is smoking without it impairing my ability to breathe.”A: "Neither can I, because I do like the “fireplace smoke odor” and hate the cigarette odor."It's not that I like fireplace smoke and hate cigarette odor... the former can be quite noxious when flowing back into a room, e.g., due to a closed or compromised flue. A properly ventilated fireplace does not impair my ability to respirate, but even a single cigarette smoked indoors can make it difficult to breathe... so much so that I've even found it impossible to linger in so-called "smoking" rooms in hotels, because of the particulate residue.

ASBESTOS 6 years, 5 months ago

Log,You get your answers for "Wiki" a place that is known to have major flaws in their attributations and many are flat out wrong.That in response to my posting of 5 or 6 medical rehab sites dealing with chemical dependance?And you expect people to take your thoughts and posts "seriously"? Get real. Just because "Wikianswers" gives a definition of "additction" that is different than the AMA that is no response that is credible.THC is psychoactive and any psychoactive chemical is "addictive" because it changes the behavior and preceptions fo the person that uses or is exposed to that chemicalYou don't know to much are pretty ignorant on effect of chemicals on the human body. You last post illustrated that.And Tangential, I am done talking with you. A "scientific laboratoty" you house is not and you house is only one set of data. What you are quoting is "anecdotal" which does not cover the entire population base.The Fireplace has a smoke odor in the house, and for the last you mentally challanged person, that is because the smoke particulate is coming into the room. It is that simple.I was saying with a operating flue open, you are still getting particulate inside the house, and that is a fact, again whether you accept it or not, it is in fact happening. And that particulate load is far greater than a smoker, again, whether you accept that or not, it is the case.Get a partical counter, fire up the fireplace and count the particles by size, then go to a smokers room and do the same thing. The fireplace will be higher. In a bar the cigarette smoke will be greater, but then again it is the amount of material being burned.There is even a study on this very topic.But I bet you aren't going to look for it will you.Naw, you will then still not accept it.

9070811 6 years, 5 months ago

I personally don't trust a website that is a dot.com.Maybe ya'll should read about Harry J. Anslinger and the processes he took to make pot illegal. Much of his funding was from the Rockefellers...who didn't like hemp cause it went head to head with the timber industry. Anywho, have a wonderful day.Also, one more thought, allowing cigarette smoking an establishment should be the establishment's choice.

SMe 6 years, 5 months ago

9070811, "Also, one more thought, allowing cigarette smoking an establishment should be the establishment's choice."Finally a reasonable post! Absolutely correct. If you don't like cigarette smoke go places where it's not but don't think you have the right to tell me I can't smoke because you don't like it.

smokybr 6 years, 5 months ago

The talk of a statewide ban has one huge positive, maybe Phil Bradley (not an actual attorney) will self appoint himself as spokesperson for bars, finally move, and get the ban shoved down the throats of some other town.The talk of smokers rights is as simple as the talk of taxing, if Kansas wants to stop smoking, they should stop forcing bars to get a cigarette license as part of their liquor license.

ASBESTOS 6 years, 5 months ago

Why are some of my posts removed you putrid moderators? What possibly was the problems in them?Good godZ!

9070811 6 years, 5 months ago

Once again, establishments should be able to choose whether they will permit smoking or whether they wil not. Before the smoking bans, many established rules and posted signs like "smoke free." What's so wrong here? Nothing. If you don't want to cater to people who smoke, then don't. If you want to cater to those who do, then feel free to allow it. This is a pretty reasonable medium. That is business.

womanwarrior 6 years, 5 months ago

You can smoke all you want, just don't do it around me. Go smell up your own clothes. Smokers smell horrible. I can smell one a block away. Be gross, but do it in private.

9070811 6 years, 5 months ago

I am a smoke free individual; smoke sets of my allergies and aggravates my asthma. Do whatever you what, I can't make you stop smoking, but I can go somewhere else. It's your life, man. And I have my own. Womanwarrior-- should people who pick their wedgies or pick their nose, or sneeze, or cough, should they all stay away from you? Do they need to do that in private? I consider those things to be gross. But we're all crammed into this tiny planet. I just remember that everyone is an individual and can make choices for themselves, and themselves only. Then I remember how I can protect myself from these things. For example, I don't shake that person's hand, or I drink some OJ (vit. C!) or I laugh cause that person just pulled their underwear out of the butt cheeks! I also consider littering gross, but some people don't care. So they don't care? I can't make them care, so I just remember that I care and that I wouldn't do that. What about people that wear dirty clothes because they worked all day? Should they shop in their dirty clothes in private? Is that possible? (aside from online) MM Can anyone else think of something?Does my B.O bother you? I can be smelled a mile away. I don't deodorant! Sorry!Peace out, girl scout

skinnee11 6 years, 5 months ago

As a smoker, I'm still struggling to see what all the fuss is about? You tell me I can't smoke here, okay, I'll go over there. You tell me that I can't smoke indoors, fine, I'll go outside. I can, however, still smoke. Isn't that the point? So what? Your "ban" places restrictions on where I can and cannot smoke. So, to those of you whining, grow up and take a little responsibility for your actions. It hasn't and won't kill you to go outside...well, it will, but you know what I mean.

Leslie Swearingen 6 years, 5 months ago

I have never smoked, but the way I hear it is that smoking is particularly dangerous because it affects the people around the smoker, not just them.I don't think the state legislature should take the time and energy to make laws concerning every move that every citizen makes, or might make. Surely, we have city government for some reason. We vote these people in - or- out.I admit that I know far more about national and international affairs than what is going on in Lawrence.The web site below has a feedback form, let us give you better service is what it says above it. Just tell them.http://www.ci.lawrence.ks.us/Anyone read The Grapes of Wrath and remember when the dust bowl immigrant went into the service station?Yup.I found this little gem on there. It is a sign to be put up in the workplace."Smoking shall be prohibited in all enclosed facilities within our place of employment without exception. This includes common work areas, auditoriums, classrooms, conference and meeting rooms, private offices, elevators, hallways, medical facilities, cafeterias, employee lounges, stairs, restrooms, vehicles, and all other enclosed facilities."Vehicles? Does that mean if you get caught sneaking a smoke in your car during break, you will be sent to the office?Okay, sometimes enough is enough.The fact that I do not smoke does not mean that I get all nervous and faint of heart when I am around a smoker.What about the second hand effects of alcohol when someone gets drunk and drives and hurts or kills someone? What about the second hand effects of parental discipline when the child/teen becomes angry, sneaks out and misbehaves?What about the second hand effects of - Put in your own idea.

Chris Ogle 6 years, 5 months ago

I used to have three really bad habits. Alcohol, Pot, and Ciggs. Now I just have one..... Ciggs. Addictive as hell.

ModSquadGal 6 years, 5 months ago

My, my, my! I do love how these articles on smoking get everyone riled up all over again. The ban is a done deal, so DEAL WITH IT. No matter what anyone says, smokers DO impose their smoking habit on all those around them. Therefore, it only makes sense to limit their ability to smoke in public places. Public places are for EVERYONE to enjoy. If certain people are impinging on the enjoyment of those places for others, THEY are the ones that must change or leave. Not too difficult to understand at all really. Get over your political/monetary/conspiracy theories already.The only person who made a sensible comment here on the smoker's behalf is Skinnee11: "So, to those of you whining, grow up and take a little responsibility for your actions." DouglasCountySucks... grow up.

gl0ck0wn3r 6 years, 5 months ago

"Smoking, of course, is a personal choice, but with all the evidence about the dangers of secondhand smoke, many people believe the time for a statewide ban has come."I don't smoke, but this mess of an editorial was killed the moment the writer suggested (correctly) that this is a personal choice issue. Smoking is a personal choice. Owning a restaurant that allows smoking should be a personal choice given that smoking, like drinking, is a legal activity. Working at an establishment that allows smoking should also be a personal choice. The state, however, has decided that the proles are too stupid to make the last two choices.

bad_dog 6 years, 5 months ago

DCS, the ban on airline smoking was driven by the enormous numbers of complaints regarding air quality registered by passengers and crew as well as concerns about the long-term health effects of second-hand smoke, rather than the presence of oxygen and jet fuel on aircraft. In 1986 the National Academy of Sciences published "The Airliner Cabin Environment: Air Quality and Safety." In the publication, NAS reported that the nation's flight attendants were exposed to smoke levels similar to those of a person living with someone smoking a pack a day and recommended a ban on smoking on all domestic commercial flights.Even if you completely disregard the effects of second-hand smoke, it's still very unpleasant (no, repugnant) to sit on a flight for several hours with smokers aboard.

womanwarrior 6 years, 5 months ago

DouglasCountySucks, the bars and restaurants in Lawrence aren't going broke. They just don't have to put up with as many people with attitude, like you. But I know several people who come to Lawrence now, since they can eat with out the nasty smell. By the way, the percentage of people who smoke has dropped to an all time low, less than 25%. So you are the minority. Enjoy your addiction in your own home or outside. No one says you have to give up smoking; you just have to do it in the proper places.I grew up with smokers, and hung out in bars with smokers, and was always getting bronchitis. Now that I'm never around smoke, I almost never get even the sniffles. My father didn't die of smoking, but my mother live the last 3 years of her life on oxygen. Some people's bodies just cleanse the toxins better. It's a roulette wheel, so if you like gambling, fine. But keep it away from me.

Judgesmails 6 years, 5 months ago

Too bad smokers ! Keep cryingKeep your poison out of our faces !Good luck with that leathery complexion and constant hack.

9070811 6 years, 5 months ago

I don't enjoy places that cater to smokers. But, hey, if they're allowed to choose, eventually peer pressure ensues. Mmm...

Leslie Swearingen 6 years, 5 months ago

logicsound04 Hell's Angels are pretty tough and they smoke a lot. You might have a hard time throwing one of them out. As long as it is legal to sell cigarettes it should not be illegal to smoke them. As for banning tobacco completely that would put a lot, and I mean a lot, of workers out of a job. How many people from field to store does the tobacco industry employ? Perhaps, the non-smokers are selfish, thinking only of themselves and not of the ones they could be hurting.

Kirk Larson 6 years, 5 months ago

I'm an ex-smoker myself, but I put this compromise to one of my smoking friends: allow smokers to smoke in restaurants, but non-smokers get to spit in their food.

gccs14r 6 years, 5 months ago

"Vehicles? Does that mean if you get caught sneaking a smoke in your car during break, you will be sent to the office?"They generally mean company vehicles, since tobacco smoke will permeate the interior and transfer to the clothes of non-smoking occupants and smoke damage will be deducted from the residual value of the vehicle at the end of the lease. A few years ago, though, there was an article about Motorola banning smoking in and around all its facilites, including in the private autos of its employees while they were on the premises.

Cristy White 6 years, 5 months ago

Day after day as I read blogs I have noticed more often than not people would prefer to post blogs annonymously and it is usually these annonomous blogs that you find people aren't commenting in a publicly correct manner and are using verbally abusive language. I would like to state for the record that sickens me. As far as the smoking ban....I am currently in K.U. hospital after a life threatening accident. I am a 29 year old smoker and furthermore I am recovering addict and I have a mother who is currently dying of a lung disease called C.O.P.D. and is terminal at that. Her C.O.P.D. is very progressive and was onset from smoking since she was young. I still choose to smoke as I enjoy nicotene as much as the next smoker. In the U.S. at one point and time we were all known as the land of the free as we were able to endulge ourselves with the God Given Right to make our own choices and decisions about our actions and recieve consequences whether good or bad based on our decisions. The U.S. Government more and more is and has been taking our decisions away from us at an enormous pace.I do not impose my habbit of smoking on others that do not smoke as I smoke outside where it is well ventilated out of mutual respect for other human beings health and common welfare so I am not opposed to the removal of indoor smoking inside any public place such as businesses ect. However, I feel the Government is beginning to overstepp alot of boundaries when they are trying to take away My God Given Right to smoke in the open Outdoors as while smoking outside I am harming only myself and I am not imposing unwanted nicotene nor second hand smoke on anyone. I have found there are already a few counties in a few states that are known to be "tobacco dry counties" meaning you cannot be caught in possession of tobacco in any form as you could not only be fined but also incarcerated for this. In my eyes and it is my utmost opinion the U.S. Government is clearly sending all of its residents a clear signal that they can do what they want including take our freedom of choice and speech by making rulings and decisions for all of us such as these and instead of being "FREE" people we are slowly but surely becoming slaves as if we were children all over again. It's becoming quite rediculous don't you think?

Bossa_Nova 6 years, 5 months ago

i'm not opposed to a statewide smoking ban. sure, it's a persons right to choose whether they want to smoke or not, but unfortunately, most smokers are not considerate enough to take their cancer sticks outside of a public building unless they are forced to do so. so bring on the statewide ban and let the majority of the population breathe clean air and not have to cater to the minority smokers.

gccs14r 6 years, 5 months ago

Cigarettes pollute more than cars do. There was a small study done in Italy in 2004, where they ran a diesel car in an enclosed space for half an hour, then measured the air quality, then they repeated the test by burning three cigarettes over a half-hour period. The cigarettes produced ten times the particulate matter of the car. CO emissions are higher, too. BTW, when you're driving down the road smoking your cigarettes, keep your windows rolled up and use your ashtray. One, we don't want to smell it, and two, you won't flick your butts out on the street where they'll pollute the river.

Chris Ogle 6 years, 5 months ago

I honestly want to quit smoking. Not because of laws, but because I don't like smoking. The problem is that I am addicted to ciggs. Any ideas???

gccs14r 6 years, 5 months ago

Quit at the beginning of a 3-day weekend (take a day off to make one, if you need to), and quit caffeine and alcohol at the same time. Spend the three days sleeping. That'll get you over the first big hump, then you have only a 4-day workweek before you're back to two days off. Spend them sleeping, too. Grit your teeth for your first full week back at work, knowing that it's only five days and that you'll get through it without killing anyone. Find out that the week wasn't too bad, and do mostly-normal things that weekend. Go through pure hll in week three, thinking that if you have to spend the rest of your life like this, you might as well smoke. Don't give in, not even for a puff. After week three, it gets easier, but only incrementally at first. After six months or so, you can have caffeine and alcohol again, but do not give in to the inevitable temptation to smoke, not even once, or you'll have to start the quitting cycle all over again. You'll find that you feel better, you smell better, you have more money in your pocket, and that dmnit! you still want a cigarette sometimes. Take a deep breath, let it out slowly, and the feeling will subside. The cravings will come less often over time, and after about eight years will finally mostly stop coming. I hear it takes about 18 years for the cravings to stop completely, though.

DMH1983 6 years, 5 months ago

As an ex-smoker, I can see both sides. I do think it is hypocritical that some of the people who believe smokers are the scum of the earth have no issues with alcohol use! I supervise 17 yr old whose parents are p*ssed off that there kid smoke cigs but what's the big deal if they get crunked in the basement with alcohol thier parents keep in the house! I do not understand the difference - both are destructive. Congrats, you're a non-smoker but if you drink - you need to shut your freakin' trap!!

womanwarrior 6 years, 5 months ago

I don't drink, and I have no problem with others drinking, except when they get into their cars and drive. They they are an annoyance and danger to me, just like inconsiderate smokers.xbusguy - I read a study that all methods work when quitting smoking, but that it seems to take repeated attempts to quit. So apparently if you keep trying, even if you fall off the wagon, you will eventually succeed. Here's a bad way to quit smoking - my mother quit smoking after being in a coma after surgery to fix her bleeding ulcer, which was caused by the imbalance in her stomach chemistry caused by, you guessed it, smoking. Because of her ulcer she couldn't take pain meds for her arthritis, so as she slowly died of congestive heart failure, she was in pain always. Of course it was her choice to be addicted, as it is your choice, smokers. Just don't do it around me, thank you. And since you aren't my mother, I don't have to take care of you when you get sick.

DMH1983 6 years, 5 months ago

That's my point - there are as many smoker out there that are considerate of non-smokers as there are drinkers that that don't operate vehicles under the influence. Therefore, if we are going to have a statewde ban on smoking, Why don't we in turn have a statewide ban on consuming alcohol in public - restraunts, games, bars, etc. I believe it should be the right of the business owner to choose how to run thier business. The arguement that waiters and waitresses have the right to work in a smoke free environment is weak - they, like patrons, have the right to go elsewhere. logicsound- you are correct, know one said those exact words but it was implied with nasty statements like: "First letter shows why most people dislike, if not outright hate most smokers""Nicotine is addictive so you can't really fault the babies who whine on. . .""If I was a restaurant owner and you walked into my establishment like a chimney on legs, I would forcibly remove your ass while you huffed and wheezed trying to muster the strength to resist me.""Too bad smokers ! Keep cryingKeep your poison out of our faces !Good luck with that leathery complexion and constant hack"

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