Archive for Tuesday, December 15, 2009

Statehouse Live: State suffers unprecedented revenue drops; Brownback to be on “prayercast” against healthcare reform

December 15, 2009, 8:55 a.m. Updated December 15, 2009, 1:20 p.m.

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— The state budget situation is getting worse, officials said Tuesday.

Even after five rounds of budget cuts -- cuts that have led to layoffs, shuttered prison facilities, longer waiting lists for health care services, and a wide-range of reductions in education -- the state will still face a $359 million general revenue shortfall, or 6.5 percent, in the next fiscal year, officials said.

“We face a very difficult budget,” said Gov. Mark Parkinson’s budget director Duane Goossen. The 2010 legislative session starts in January.

The looming shortfall is due to the fact that caseloads are increasing for Medicaid services, the state will have to resume paying principal on debt service, and there is less federal stimulus funding available. State government has suffered an unprecedented two consecutive years of dropping revenue, and projections show that that fall could continue two more years.

Alan Conroy, director of the Kansas Legislative Research Department, speaks to members of the Senate Ways and Means Committee during a briefing Tuesday on the state's budget crisis. Shown from left are state Sens. Laura Kelly, D-Topeka, Chairman Jay Emler, R-Lindsborg, and Carolyn McGinn, R-Sedgwick. Despite numerous rounds of budget cuts, the state still faces a significant revenue shortfall.

Alan Conroy, director of the Kansas Legislative Research Department, speaks to members of the Senate Ways and Means Committee during a briefing Tuesday on the state's budget crisis. Shown from left are state Sens. Laura Kelly, D-Topeka, Chairman Jay Emler, R-Lindsborg, and Carolyn McGinn, R-Sedgwick. Despite numerous rounds of budget cuts, the state still faces a significant revenue shortfall.

“It’s going to be devastating,” said state Sen. Janis Lee, D-Kensington, and a member of the Senate Ways and Means Committee, which was getting briefed on the state’s financial situation.

Lee said she is hearing that after Parkinson’s recent 10 percent cut to Medicaid some nursing homes have said they won’t accept anymore Medicaid clients.

Goossen said some physicians may decide not to accept Medicaid patients too.

“Every one of these cuts has consequences,” he said. “They are deeper than anyone wishes that we need to go. The results from doing this are not positive things; they are almost entirely negative things.”

9:37 a.m.

U.S. Sen. Sam Brownback, R-Kan., will be one of the speakers on a live video “PrayerCast” to oppose health care reform being debated in Congress.

The event is sponsored by the Family Research Council and will take place at 7:30 p.m. Wednesday.

The organization says, “During the Webcast, you will hear the latest on the threats to the God-given right to human life through government funding of abortions, our health from rationing, our family finances from higher taxes, and our general freedom posed by the government plan to take over healthcare.”

In addition to Brownback, FRC says its speakers include: Tony Perkins, president of Family Research Council Action; Lou Engle, founder and president of The Call to Conscience; U.S. Sen. Jim DeMint, R-S.C.; U.S. Reps. Randy Forbes, R-Va.; Michele Bachmann, R-Minn.; Bishop Harry Jackson, president of High Impact Leadership Coalition; and Pastor Jim Garlow, Skyline Church.

Comments

funkdog1 5 years, 5 months ago

This clown is an embarrassment to the great state of Kansas.

brotherskeeper 5 years, 5 months ago

PrayerCast? Really? When did our leaders become so deluded that they work from their personal interests THEN for the greater good of the people? I think there were some pretty strong reasons behind separation of church and state. (Of course he is probably not doing it as a part of his daily business - so he is just a high powered fanatic)

63BC 5 years, 5 months ago

One might not know it from reading this board, but the majority of Americans pray regularly for guidance.

Some have even held public office---folks with names like Washington, Lincoln, Carter.

This is a private voluntary association of citizens prayerfully discussing major issues of the day and organizing within the political process based on shared principle.

If they were doing so as part of an anti-war movement [as many faithful people also do] the critics on this board would be praising them as heroes.

Right now, they happen to be doing it in opposition to the President's health care bill. That's their right.

Some people pray. Some people disagree with you.

Get over it and start showing some of that famed liberal "tolerance."

cowboy 5 years, 5 months ago

Will this be on the Cartoon Channel , or possibly on the retarded moron channel. This collection of knuckleheads may well prove that evolution is a myth and they are a result of God just kind of having a bad day.

50YearResident 5 years, 5 months ago

I would like for the next Govenor of Kansas to be able to make decisions without devine intervention help.

Bob_Keeshan 5 years, 5 months ago

When I pray, I pray for my fellow man.

When Sam and the Family Research Council pray, they pray for themselves.

Today, they will be praying to protect their status quo and to deny the tens of millions of Americans who are anxiously waiting for real health care reform.

preebo 5 years, 5 months ago

Well... He can pray, or raise taxes and we'll see what will save the state first.

jonas_opines 5 years, 5 months ago

We should be supporting Brownback spending time praying to fix problems.

It's a hell of a lot better than when he starts Voting to fix problems.

Wouldn't you agree? We should encourage him to spend more time praying and less time voting.

ReadingSports 5 years, 5 months ago

beobachter (Anonymous) says… He is an embarrassment to the human race and to christians in particular.

Wow, didn't know beo was born again. Great! when did that happen? I'm stunned, shocked maybe.

Personally, I'm praying with him, and furthermore for God's will to be done. As a Christian.

Less liberal-group-think and judgementalism maybe.

Jimo 5 years, 5 months ago

"One might not know it from reading this board, but the majority of Americans pray regularly for guidance."

They're not praying for guidance but rather for God to smite those with whom they disagree. Prayer requires humility and openness to listening to the return message.

scary_manilow 5 years, 5 months ago

Wow-- praying that the sick and needed get affordable health care. How Christ-like of him. Not!

ReadingSports 5 years, 5 months ago

Jimo -- They're not praying for guidance but rather for God to smite those with whom they disagree. Prayer requires humility and openness to listening to the return message.

And how do you know whether or not someone prays in humility? Maybe you should examine your own ego.

Scary -- Wow— praying that the sick and needed get affordable health care. How Christ-like of him. Not!

Obama's Health care reform does not equate to affordable health care. Nice of you to assign motives to those that disagree with you. How judgmental, how like a liberal. How like a worshiper of Obama.

Jonas, maybe you should try a little prayer before you mock those that practice it. :-)

ReadingSports 5 years, 5 months ago

Phillbert (Anonymous) says…

Hopefully Brother Sam will open his Bible to Matthew 25:31-46.

And how does that apply to the debate about health care reform? Let me clue you in. IT DOES NOT!!!

And if you say it does, then you are violating this: http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy%205:11&version=NIV

Government programs are not Christian charity!

Cait McKnelly 5 years, 5 months ago

Dear Philbert nothing ticks off the self righteous Pharisees more than to be met with true righteousness. Be very careful or, in the words of Jackson Browne, you may "get the same as the rebel Jesus."

Cait McKnelly 5 years, 5 months ago

If that is the case ReadingSports then why is Brownback joining a "prayercast" regarding it?

Jimo 5 years, 5 months ago

And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. Mttw 6:5

Jimo 5 years, 5 months ago

sports -- "And how do you know whether or not someone prays in humility? Maybe you should examine your own ego."

A kindergartner can tell if someone's OPEN AND PUBLIC prayers are humble or not. Get a clue.

pace 5 years, 5 months ago

Yellowback and the other pious republicans have done nothing for working families, no decent health care reform, no help for employment. Their big claim to fame is they helped the stock market, the banks and declared war on Iraq. People who present themselves as the better christians should be videotaped near the poor box and their pockets searched leaving the wake.

scary_manilow 5 years, 5 months ago

Reading-

I'm hardly an "Obama Worshipper." Just a Brownback-opposer. Personally, I think they're BOTH acting in the best interests of Big Insurance-- diference is, one of them doesn't have the audacity to pretend that he's doing it out of a sense of Christian duty.

ReadingSports 5 years, 5 months ago

cait48 (Anonymous) says…

If that is the case ReadingSports then why is Brownback joining a “prayercast” regarding it?
Brownback, and I, both think this 'reform' is a bad idea. So he's praying for it's defeat. By the way, opposition to this thing is over 50%, so Brownback is correct in opposing it. And with the Democrats pushing this thing why hasn't it passed? They have a majority.

He's a Christian, we pray. The verse doesn't apply. The poster implied that it does. It doesn't. I was specifically addressing the poster's comment.

You're welcome to pray as well.

Matt 6:5 Also does not apply. The verse does not apply to corporate, meaning group, prayer. When 2 or 3 are gathered in my name... I love how non-Christians love to quote the Bible.

A judgmental kindergartner There fixed that for you.

ReadingSports 5 years, 5 months ago

scary_manilow (Anonymous) says… Reading- I'm hardly an “Obama Worshipper.” Just a Brownback-opposer. Personally, I think they're BOTH acting in the best interests of Big Insurance— diference is, one of them doesn't have the audacity to pretend that he's doing it out of a sense of Christian duty.

Oh Really... "President Obama sought Wednesday to reframe the health care debate as “a core ethical and moral obligation,” imploring a coalition of religious leaders to help promote the plan to lower costs and expand insurance coverage for all Americans."

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/20/us/politics/20obama.html?_r=1

Do five hail Bidens, and one "our Obama" and get back to me later.

Cait McKnelly 5 years, 5 months ago

"Brownback, and I, both think this 'reform' is a bad idea. So he's praying for it's defeat." (emphasis mine) Enough said. "I love how non-Christians love to quote the Bible." How do you know who is and isn't a Christian? "A judgmental kindergartner There fixed that for you. " Ahh the last bastion of the person who has no real reply.

ReadingSports 5 years, 5 months ago

How do you know who is and isn't a Christian? Okay, then are you? If you are then I accept correction. If not...

Cait McKnelly 5 years, 5 months ago

I am (although I think not in the way you are). But that isn't the point. I didn't quote scripture. Your statement was: “I love how non-Christians love to quote the Bible.” Again, how do you know who is Christian and who isn't?

MeAndFannieLou 5 years, 5 months ago

Intercessary prayer is blasphemous! Doesn't the lord know what we have need of before we do? And didn't Jesus give us the lord's prayer with the instructions that that, and that only, should be our prayer? And doesn't god know how it all turns out? What does the gop think, that god changes his mind?!

ReadingSports 5 years, 5 months ago

cait48 (Anonymous) says… I am (although I think not in the way you are). But that isn't the point. I didn't quote scripture.

I didn't either, except to correct it's misuse. Dollar's to donuts you think there's more than one way to God. That it's not necessary to follow and confess faith in Christ. And him alone. That's not Christianity, it's universalism. Sorry...

a_flock_of_jayhawks 5 years, 5 months ago

While he's at it, I hope he prays that I win Powerball tomorrow

Cait McKnelly 5 years, 5 months ago

ReadingSports you still have not answered my question. The truth is you can't. You don't know what's in my heart and soul nor in the hearts and souls of others. You made an assumption about me in your last post that was very judgmental that relates to this. May I remind you Christ Himself said, "Judge not lest ye be judged."

jimmyjms 5 years, 5 months ago

Sam voted for the medicare drug benefit in 2003. "Prays" against a more fiscally sound version of the same thing today.

What a hypocrite.

mommie2boogie 5 years, 5 months ago

yay. lets all pray so that no one gets affordable healthcare. /sarcastic.

im so embarrassed to be from kansas. first roberts comparing this to pearl harbor, and now this.... sigh

pfunk81 5 years, 5 months ago

I'm praying to the flying spaghetti monster that we GET health care! Take that Brownbutt!

yourworstnightmare 5 years, 5 months ago

What a maroon!

If these ignoramuses wish to spend their time engaging in fantasy, more power to them.

Maybe I will ask the Tooth Fairy for a dental plan.

Newsflash! Praying is fantasy, despite the fact that so many people do it.

ReadingSports 5 years, 5 months ago

Go back and read my posts. There is a pattern of misuse of scripture amoung non-Christians. It fit the pattern. The misuse I pointed out is offensive.

I was working off your condescending-sounding (Not in the way you are) comment for my last statement. That is what made me wonder if you are a universalist. (I could practically hear you clucking your tongue at me.) Either you are or not. There is only one Christ, either we worship the same one or we don't. If we do, then I beg your forgiveness, and I forgive the "not in the way you are". If we worship different Christ's then I think you've proven my point.

And by the way, there was nothing that rises to the level of the "judge not" verse. As Christians we are called to recognize false teachers and teachings.

And since others have brought faith into this (I wasn't the first) then I have a right to say, "Sen. Brownback is within his rights as a Christian and an American to do what he's doing." Yes he is a politician. But the comments here are off-base.

And several posters have implied that there is some kind of Christian obligation to pass health care reform, and cast derision on the Senator for his approach. (I think I saw the word Pharisee.) And an implication that Christians shouldn't pray together.

Which is total and complete hog wash, and probably came from someone that .... doesn't know any better.

Paul Decelles 5 years, 5 months ago

Agnostic,

I wonder if the LJWorld would investigate this. After all Brownback could be our next governor.

http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/tag/sam-brownback

While several American members of The Family are quietly trying to put a stop to the bill, Sens. Inhofe and Sam Brownback (R-KS) have refused to step up, characterizing the bill as an internal Ugandan matter that they don’t want to “interfere” with.

I guess inalienable rights don't apply to gays.

whynaut 5 years, 5 months ago

Check out http://www.frc.org.

If anybody can explain how their mission does not undermine the separation of church and state, I'd love to hear it.

If anybody is not at all worried that the man who is very likely going to be our next KS governor is affiliated with an organization like this, I'd like to hear why.

If anyone can point to a population of the "Religious Right" that is not Christian, or for that matter, whey the "Religious Right" is not simply called the "Christian Right", I'd also like to hear that.

yourworstnightmare 5 years, 5 months ago

Praying is fantasy, whether done by malicious christian liars or civil rights protestors or environmentalists.

Unequivocally and non-partisanly, praying is fantasy.

jonas_opines 5 years, 5 months ago

"Jonas, maybe you should try a little prayer before you mock those that practice it. :-)"

I'd think that by now you'd know that if you want to bait me you'd better start with more potent ammunition.

If you'd care to point out where I included a "those" or a "they" by all means do so. My mocking is generally geared towards individuals, and in this case it encompassed only a "him."

ReadingSports 5 years, 5 months ago

“Jonas, maybe you should try a little prayer before you mock those that practice it. :-)”

You took the bait didn't you?

Although, I would expand your comment and say that voting on this bill is a waste of time. Praying that it not pass is a good use of time. Especially if you're one of the Senator's co-workers. :-)

Kirk Larson 5 years, 5 months ago

Brownbacking leads to Santorum.

Brownback's association with the C Street Family religious group scares the bejeebus out of me! It infuriates me that he voted to protect companies that shield rapists from prosecution and he won't condemn the Ugandan bill that would imprison and execute homosexuals and people with HIV. Bad senator! Bad! Bad!

MyName 5 years, 5 months ago

Anyone who's read about the history and the middle ages knows what kind of "life" these theocrats think we have a right to: Nasty, Short, and Brutish. Though I suppose Iran (another theocracy) is a step up from the dark ages.

ReadingSports 5 years, 5 months ago

MyName,

Did you you look under your bed?? I'm right there. Bu-ba-ga.

And I've got your brains. Yummy...

bd 5 years, 5 months ago

Get used to it! He will be the next Gov. of Kansas!

jonas_opines 5 years, 5 months ago

"You took the bait didn't you?"

If you mean by responding, then I suppose so. But I don't look at it that way. The way I look at it, I just cut the bait off the rope, had a nice meal, and then poked a hole in your boat. Either way, it seems that we're both content.

As for praying for the bill not to pass, I look at it the same as praying that your team wins. Best not to sully divinity with such mundane things.

Tom McCune 5 years, 5 months ago

Jesus healed the sick without payment and without insurance. To pray for divine intervention in this manner is perverted. This guy may indeed be the antichrist.

Polly_Gomer 5 years, 5 months ago

Why does Sam Brownback hate the citizens of Kansas?

Why is Wrong Way Sam praying for death and suffering?

ReadingSports 5 years, 5 months ago

Okay, are you taking to the throw down method of posting? (I really showed him.) Are you full, Jonas of? or something?

Is this bill a football game? Is health care reform a bunch of teenager's in dirty uniforms? Hardly. Nor do I suspect that you really understand the purpose of an invocation before a contest. Or before a meal. But since my boat is full of water I shouldn't bother.

Maybe I should plug my boat with opinations. Since isn't that the purpose of the ruminations?

Of course, are all the target of the moderate mocker or just those that disagree with the party's line? Is moderate in truth or just in jest?

finance 5 years, 5 months ago

The only thing this state has suffered is an abundance of idiots elected as if they represent anybody other than their own pocketbooks and their own sick-minded ilk. The resolution is simple: repeal the deliberate, evil decade-long tax cuts that have bankrupted this state and made it a place uninhabitable by civilized and humane people. The alternative is to call it quits and give it back to the buffalo--even animals treat their own better than the tax-cutters treat their fellow "human" beings. I watched a PBS piece the other night where lions in Africa were rescuing one of their own from the clutches of a crocodile--ironic, isn't it, that animals would rescue their own while many in our legislature would throw their human-kin right into the jaws of suffering--all in the name of tax cuts.

riverdrifter 5 years, 5 months ago

"Is a maroon worst than a moron."

A maroon is one level above an idoit. Brokeback down on his prayer bones is somewhere in between.

true_patriot 5 years, 5 months ago

Interesting that Brownback would invoke prayer against a reform effort, that, while flawed, at least has the intent to end the corporate health care rationing and death panels that characterize our current health care system.

America is experiencing the equivalent of a 9-11 event every three weeks just in terms of deaths due to lack of health care and Brownback and the so-called Teabaggers have hyped themselves into thinking they're agents of God. He also belongs to the wingnut Family group that put the Ugandan dictator in place and the legislator there that wrote the legislation proposing to kill all gays, to kill anyone drinking alcohol in an attempt to have a gay encounter, and to kill anyone, even family members, that refuse to proactively report anyone that they think may be gay.

Those who truly pray to know God's will should be able to see through this heartbreaking delusion and denounce it for the dangerous phenomenon that it is.

anon1958 5 years, 5 months ago

A sophist wrote........ Some have even held public office–folks with names like Washington, Lincoln, Carter.


Please do not besmirch the name of one of our greatest presidents (Lincoln) by mentioning the name of one of the most contemptible politicians presently alive (Brownback) on the same internet.

Lincoln was a skeptic and more influenced by the enlightenment philosophers than by the Holy Bible. Lincoln was a thoughtful, well-read and philosophical man whereas Brownback could not distinguish between an idea and an ideologue. In all likelihood Lincoln would feel nothing but contempt for Roberts and Brownback were he alive today.

a_flock_of_jayhawks 5 years, 5 months ago

Jacob123 (Anonymous) says…

"Animals also feed their young; they don’t look to a government to do it for them."

And sometimes they don't or can't feed their young and guess what happens...they die! If you want all of us humans to manage purely like animals, then be prepared for your inevitable relegation to be eliminated from the gene pool.

Kirk Larson 5 years, 5 months ago

Jesus said that only hypocrites pray in public where others can see him. They are more concerned with impressing the easily fooled with how righteous they are. The truly righteous pray in secluded darkness where only God is witness to their prayers.

Brownbacking leads to Santorum.

Kirk Larson 5 years, 5 months ago

Jacob123 (Anonymous) says… “GOP does not equal GOD.” No but the Democrats have cornered the market on atheists.

Cappy says... No, but the republicans have cornered the market on hypocrites.

Kirk Larson 5 years, 5 months ago

A sophist wrote…….. Some have even held public office–folks with names like Washington, Lincoln, Carter.

Washington refused to take communion his entire adult life. He was a doubter.

ReadingSports 5 years, 5 months ago

Lincoln was a skeptic and more influenced by the enlightenment philosophers than by the Holy Bible.

Ahh, the attack of the ignorant and arrogant godless. http://www.greatamericanhistory.net/lincolnsfaith.htm

From the article: "Well, I will tell you how it was. In the pinch of the campaign up there (at Gettysburg) when everybody seemed panic stricken and nobody could tell what was going to happen, oppressed by the gravity of our affairs, I went to my room one day and locked the door and got down on my knees before Almighty God and prayed to Him mightily for victory at Gettysburg. I told Him that this war was His war, and our cause His cause, but we could not stand another Fredericksburg or Chancellorsville... And after that, I don't know how it was, and I cannot explain it, but soon a sweet comfort crept into my soul. The feeling came that God had taken the whole business into His own hands and that things would go right at Gettysburg and that is why I had no fears about you." [July 5, 1863]

Then there is the "nation divided can not stand" quote, which is a paraphrase of scripture. (Let's see if my better can find it, since I'm contemptible.)

Yet more revisionism from the revisionist secular left.

ReadingSports 5 years, 5 months ago

On Washington: http://www.americanprofile.com/article/20768.html From this article: AP: Why is Washington so often regarded as a leader without Christian faith?

PL: It’s been so often said that Washington didn’t partake of communion. Yet I discovered the evidence is that he communed in Virginia, New Jersey and New York. After he took the oath of office, he went down a few blocks to a two-hour worship service, and Mrs. Alexander Hamilton recorded that she knelt in communion with him after the service was over. (There also has been) the argument that he did not use the Bible and was not Bible-serious. But we know on Inauguration Day he used a Bible to take the oath of office. It came from the local Masonic order, and they still have that Bible to this day. There are 200 different examples where Washington alludes to or cites the Bible. He calls Scripture “Holy Writ.”

Don't believe everything Richard "the Dork" Dawkins says.

Tom McCune 5 years, 5 months ago

Washington and Lincoln (both non church members) professed a belief in God or a higher power, but eschewed belief in organized religion which they had seen twisted and perverted as instruments of political power. They had just witnessed about 300 years of religious civil wars in Europe fought over which faction of Christianity got to be the official state religion of England or France or Germany etc. etc. We should all follow their wise examples, IMO. Brownnote should, too.

ReadingSports 5 years, 5 months ago

organized religion -- No Washington rejected the official state churches of those countries.

In any case, apples and oranges. Aren't you, and most of your secular kindred spirits advocating for an official censorship of Christianity. Wouldn't that then be a state stance on religion? In my mind you would take us back to those dark ages when the state exercises control over the public practice of religion.

At first it would be social pressure, like people tut-tuting over any public displays of Faith. Then it would be legally excluded from certain venues. Then any involvement by people of faith in the political process would be deemed inappropriate, first socially, then legally. And so on...

HMMM... I wonder do we see it's first echo's here in this very blog. Why maybe we do!

ReadingSports 5 years, 5 months ago

Oh, and I'm not a church member either, but whatever. Church membership means nothing.

jonas_opines 5 years, 5 months ago

"Okay, are you taking to the throw down method of posting? (I really showed him.) Are you full, Jonas of? or something?"

This was somewhat hard to translate. But if you'll recall, you targeted me, not the other way around. I'm still not particularly sure why, since what you targeted me about had very little to do with what I posted about initially. (IE, Brownback)

"Is this bill a football game? Is health care reform a bunch of teenager's in dirty uniforms?"

The way it's played in Washington? I'd say it's pretty close. Ultimately pointless, profitless except to specific organizations, and expensive. Only difference that I see is that I can't seem to not pay tickets to the football game in Washington when I don't want to watch.

"Hardly. Nor do I suspect that you really understand the purpose of an invocation before a contest. Or before a meal. But since my boat is full of water I shouldn't bother."

For me it was always a brief communal moment with the people gathered. I wonder, though, if You can truly say that you know what it's for. My guess is most individuals come to individual meanings on the ritual. I have no great opinion on praying. I like to think, though, that I hold Christ's opinions on praying in public places, with webcasts and reporters.

"Maybe I should plug my boat with opinations. Since isn't that the purpose of the ruminations?"

Whatever (ahem) floats your boat.

"Of course, are all the target of the moderate mocker or just those that disagree with the party's line? Is moderate in truth or just in jest?"

As I said, you targeted me, not the other way around. I try not to have a party line, though I do have particular thoughts on particular issues. I seem to have misplaced my "Things I must believe and adhere to" pamphlet, and I've forgotten what it said.

I try to maintain at least a 40% jest ratio at all times on here. I can't see how else there would be to stay sane.

Tom McCune 5 years, 5 months ago

You argument is complete specious, ReadingSports. I am indeed a church members and I want government to stay completely out of religion, the way Thomas Jefferson intended. This is to protect each from the other.

9070811 5 years, 5 months ago

Lord, I pray that you don't allow our people to have health care and your gift of life. Lord, I do not wish to love my neighbors like I love myself, which I would be doing by supporting a public option for all of those facing hardships or without a job that provides insurance. Lord, this prayercast is me showing you that I don't understand Christian principles.

notajayhawk 5 years, 5 months ago

Jimo (Anonymous) says…

"A kindergartner can tell if someone's open and public prayers are humble or not."

Guess that pretty much explains your insight.


mommie2boogie (Anonymous) says…

"im so embarrassed to be from kansas."

What with your blind, fawning, irrational belief that Obama will bring more affordable healthcare, I'm pretty embarassed you're from Kansas, too.


ahimsa (Anonymous) says…

"Can Lawrence secede from Kansas?"

The rest of us can only hope.


true_patriot (Anonymous) says…

"Interesting that Brownback would invoke prayer against a reform effort, that, while flawed, at least has the intent to end the corporate health care rationing and death panels that characterize our current health care system."

And replace it with good, liberal government rationing and death panels.

Anyway, what is it with you kool-aid drinkers and "intent"? Obama gets the peace prize because of what he wants to do, this healthcare 'reform' piece of dog-poo should become law because the Dems want it to fix the problems ... I guess all you nutjobs will vote for him again because he wanted to do something about unemployment, wanted to fix the economy, wanted to close Gitmo, wanted to end the wars, ...

9070811 5 years, 5 months ago

Notajayhawk,

Obama himself said he didn't deserve the Peace Prize. Perhaps you should consider that.

notajayhawk 5 years, 5 months ago

9070811 (Anonymous) says…

"Obama himself said he didn't deserve the Peace Prize. Perhaps you should consider that."

Yes, he did imply that.

In his acceptance speech, dimwit.

Perhaps you should consider that?

9070811 5 years, 5 months ago

Thanks for calling me a dimwit. I didn't call you a name. I think there are fire ants in your pants. That's why your so aggressive. And, no, he admitted it upon hearing he had won it. He restated it in his acceptance speech.

I want to copy you, see:

**asterisks galore! ****

ReadingSports 5 years, 5 months ago

Jonas -- For me it was always a brief communal moment with the people gathered. I wonder, though, if You can truly say that you know what it's for. My guess is most individuals come to individual meanings on the ritual. I have no great opinion on praying. I like to think, though, that I hold Christ's opinions on praying in public places, with webcasts and reporters.


In a nutshell for a Christian, the grace or thanks before a meal is to praise or worship, glorify, and give thanks to God. Typically the thanks part is emphasized.

Christ frequently prayed in public. For example, before Lazarus' tomb. He did this to teach, and when needed and appropriate. The last instance was on the Cross, "Unto you I render my spirit." He also frequently participated in corporate worship.

The prohibition on praying in public is to avoid taking the glory from God to oneself.

To put it more into context, some modern Jewish sects practice a very public 'individual' prayer.
They literally dance around the street and shout. I've never seen the practice except on the internet, but I understand it's a bit obnoxious. It's not part of a corporate or group worship service. It's one guy making a spectacle of himself. I can give you some bad Christian examples of this, but I think you get my drift.

Seriously, a large part of a Christian worship service is prayer. And modern worship services sometimes include webcasts. But this isn't a worship service. I don't see this as building up Sen. Brownback. I see this as advocating a position, and reaching out to those of us that share his world view. Which I understand that you don't. But you should know that both sides like to do this little game, but I do agree with and share his opinion on this thing. “Little game” of pretending that there is some moral or ethical significance to what's being debated. Sometimes there is, but sometimes there isn't. And in this case, as a Christian, I have specific ethical concerns about this bill. Abortion being the greatest.

But we should also be able to discuss whether or not this reform will have the intended affect, without tossing inflammatory labels around.

Jonas -- I try not to have a party line, though I do have particular thoughts on particular issues.

You seem to be toward one side of late. Not a criticism just an observation.

Jonas -- I try to maintain at least a 40% jest ratio at all times on here. I can't see how else there would be to stay sane.

I targeted you because you have a sense of humor, most of the time, and I like to have fun. I vary in my jest ratio. The last post directed at you was meant in fun. Mostly, though I thought your boat comment a bit... full. :-)

whynaut 5 years, 5 months ago

9070811... amen.

Let me try:

Our party, who art in D.C., Shallow be thy game. We scuttle the bills, and keep the pills, from those who don't deserve em. Give us this day a swollen head, and forgive us of nothing, because we know what is best for everyone. Lead us not toward representation, but deliver us from our constituency. For mine is the kingdom, the power, and the glory, until re-election.

In Jesus' name we play.

ReadingSports 5 years, 5 months ago

I am indeed a church members and I want government to stay completely out of religion, the way Thomas Jefferson intended. This is to protect each from the other.

And I see no government interference in religion here. Except for the secular "church ladies" telling us that we shouldn't pray in public. Or have a position on an issue that is informed by our Christian faith.

I thought organized religion was bad. So you're a church member? And... But are you a Christian? Is Jesus Christ your Lord and Savior?

notajayhawk 5 years, 5 months ago

9070811 (Anonymous) says…

"And, no, he admitted it upon hearing he had won it. He restated it in his acceptance speech."

His acceptance speech.

For something he said he didn't deserve.

Do you even read what you're writing?

9070811 5 years, 5 months ago

Did I start a prayer circle?

Loves it.

ReadingSports 5 years, 5 months ago

Funny thing about what is called Christianity now days, very little of it has anything to do with what Jesus Christ taught or even follows what he said.

Examples please...

I for one, and many of my Christian Brothers and Sisters read the Bible regularly, meaning daily, by the way. So that would be study and application of what he taught and said.

As for my quote... I don't recall anywhere in scripture where the term membership is used, but I do know that Jesus said that "no one comes to the Father, but through him". So I would say that my earlier statement about church membership not being important, right on track.

ReadingSports 5 years, 5 months ago

No, but I would like a Playstation if you have one of those.

Prosperity Gospel isn't really that common. Many of us don't care for Osteen anymore than we like Phelps. Both bring shame on the gospel.

Though we are called to give, resources, time, and talents. But this is an exercise of faith, not an expectation of worldly riches.

God's will not mine.

ReadingSports 5 years, 5 months ago

"if God loves you of course he will endow you with material items?"

One more thing, God loves everyone unconditionally, and calls to everyone.

Even though not everyone answers.

Cait McKnelly 5 years, 5 months ago

Seen written in the graffiti on the picnic table in the outdoor employee break area at an old employer:

"Many are called but few are chosen." "I was!" "Me too!" "Well aren't we special?"

My sentiments exactly.

TacoBob 5 years, 5 months ago

JackRipper:

Funny thing about what is called Christianity now days, very little of it has anything to do with what Jesus Christ taught or even follows what he said.


Serious question, driven by curiosity, in a couple of sentences - how would you summarize what Jesus taught?

texburgh 5 years, 5 months ago

Maybe he'll just be praying that we will die quickly before we really need health care. Isn't that the Republican health care plan? If you're sick, pray you get better. If you don't get better, pray you die quickly.

anon1958 5 years, 5 months ago

Funny thing about what is called Christianity now days, very little of it has anything to do with what Jesus Christ taught or even follows what he said.

Examples please…


The Christianity that Christians have been practicing the last nineteen centuries is for the most part an invention of Paul of Tarsus. Every well educated Christian minister except for those in fundamentalist sects is well aware of this fact even if they keep quite about it.

I do not think that Christianity is neccasarily better or worse off as an invention of Paul of Tarsus rather than an invention of Jesus Christ. After all the Catholic Church, Calvin, St. Augustine and many others have also modified Christianity so much over time I doubt if the Nazarene himself would recognize his own teachings in what so many people label Christianity.

Friedrich Nietzsche summed up the transformation of Christianity from the teachings of Christ to what it became later in his usual pithy prose when he wrote that "The last Christian died on the cross." Of course I realize that for most Christians that Nietzsche is the devil incarnate so no surprise they dont understand what he meant by this.

What Christians follow the Jewish law as Christ demanded with the exception of animal sacrifice? Jesus Christ thought that the apocalypse and his second coming would occur in the lifetime of his followers. This fact explains why some of his teachings are shall we say, morally unacceptable and rejected by so many people that actually read and study what the Holy Bible says rather than worship it.

ReadingSports 5 years, 5 months ago

Nothing you have posted even comes close to the truth. Fail. Sorry.

You need to read the Bible instead of wherever you got this garbage from.

overthemoon 5 years, 5 months ago

can you say theocracy?

Notajay read this. If you have the open mind you accuse others of not having, perhaps your whole world view will be realigned. It was written, by the way, by an intelligent conservative.

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2009/12/the-tragedy-of-hope.html

sad_lawrencian 5 years, 5 months ago

Brownback is an idiot. Hope he loses the governor's race.

notajayhawk 5 years, 5 months ago

overthemoon (Anonymous) says…

"Notajay read this. If you have the open mind you accuse others of not having, perhaps your whole world view will be realigned. It was written, by the way, by an intelligent conservative."

Andrew Sullivan is what you consider *conservative", moon? Seriously? A gay former editor of the New Republic? Conservative?

If that's what you consider 'conservative', 1) you really need to actually travel outside the Larryville city limits sometime, and 2) you really have a lot of chutzpah talking about anyone else's 'open mind'.

And, um - just what did Mr. Sullivan's diatribe have to do with my posts pointing out that the beloved Dear Leader admitted he didn't deserve an honor while he was in the act of accepting it? Or with anything else I said here? Or, for that matter, where I accused others of not having open minds?

Thanks, moon, but if Mr. Sullivan's 'world view' is what you were hoping I'd change to, thanks but no thanks.

Jimo 5 years, 5 months ago

"Matt 6:5 Also does not apply. The verse does not apply to corporate, meaning group, prayer. "

That is an exceptionally stupid thing to claim, unsupported by the text, the plain and ordinary meaning of the English language, and common sense. There's nothing difficult to grasp about "when you pray." Would that Biblical translation simply involved inventing meaning whole cloth -- and directly contrary to the words at that! What next - Jesus loves torture?

Brownback's entire interest here in political. God does not appreciate being hijacked into Sam's demagogic lust for political power.

ReadingSports 5 years, 5 months ago

Read my post from 6:55 pm yesterday. Here's the verse. Matt 6:5 "And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men*. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. Emphasis on the important bit.

Your statement is ridiculous on it's face, since prayer is part of group worship. Would you stand up in church and tell the pastor not to lead in prayer, well you probably would, but I'll get to that. Corporate Public prayers by Christ: Matt 14:19, John 17, Lazarus tomb Commandment to pray together Matt 18:20

If anything your reaction proves that Brownback is not in conflict with this verse. You are misapplying the verse in order to demean him. I suspect that there are two reasons for this: Firstly, You are offended that he, or anyone is opposed to Obama-care. and you will do or say anything nasty about anyone that disagrees with you. Secondly, you are not a Christian. You personally haven't and don't pray and you don't want anyone else to either. You have absolutely no interest in correct Christian faith practice. This verse applies to you: Matt 7:3-5. And that makes you the hypocritical and judgmental one here.

Cait McKnelly 5 years, 5 months ago

Well since we're quoting rock lyrics, Agnostick, here's my favorite:

Sex and religion are power plays Manipulate the people for the money they pay Selling skin, selling God The numbers look the same on their credit cards

---Queensryche, Operation Mindcrime

(Oh and apropos to that, Oral Roberts died yesterday. I guess he finally didn't raise enough money.)

jonas_opines 5 years, 5 months ago

"In a nutshell for a Christian, the grace or thanks before a meal is to praise or worship, glorify, and give thanks to God. Typically the thanks part is emphasized."

I know the official line. My opinion on Religion is that it's problem is that it makes official demands on how an individual negotiates their spirituality. That's just a personal opinion, however, and why I don't participate. It's also why I content myself with giving criticism, and not attempting to force my will on others by coercian.

“The prohibition on praying in public is to avoid taking the glory from God to oneself.”

That was my conclusion, and that is why I see a problem. You yourself say that you do not, that's fine. I don't agree, and neither of us can say for certain. Suffice it to say that I don't trust politicians very much, on this subject or much of any other.

“You seem to be toward one side of late. Not a criticism just an observation.”

I know the direction that I lean, well enough. My neutrality, such as it is, is a result of what I said above, that I don't feel myself required to defend all positions when I only see a few as being defensable. I have strong feelings on social obligations towards keeping our people well, as well as practical ones. However, I don't see that occurring with what's going on right now. I think you'd be surprised, though, on the sides that I take when I'm in other company.

This forum, of course, is not particularly conducive to anything other than black and white discussions. As such, its hard not to take a side, even implicitly. Perhaps the sides I tend to take stem a bit from the fact there are people that I trust to make reasoned arguments on the other side of the equation here.

Bob_Keeshan 5 years, 5 months ago

jonas_opines (Anonymous) says…

This forum, of course, is not particularly conducive to anything other than black and white discussions.

I can't believe you would bring race into this.

jimmyjms 5 years, 5 months ago

"how would you summarize what Jesus taught?"

The exact polar opposite of the Republican platform.

CheneyHawk 5 years, 5 months ago

Brownback - 1) He made his money the old fashioned way - he married into it. 2) While @ KSU he put the budern/costs of the student rec building on the shoulders of the students 3) When has he had a 'real' job?

jonas_opines 5 years, 5 months ago

My bad, Bob. But I actually refer to those races as Peach and Umber.

Flap Doodle 5 years, 5 months ago

Heartbreaker, SEIU is leaping over the rail from Dear Leader's healthcare grand mess.

"The Service Employees International Union (SEIU) backed out of an event with other organizations promoting the Senate healthcare reform bill Wednesday over concerns about changes made to the legislation to accommodate centrist Democrats. The SEIU had planned to participate in a Capitol Hill press conference along with the AARP, the liberal advocacy group Families USA, Consumers Union and the American Cancer Society Action Network. As recently as Tuesday morning, the organizations distributed an advisory to the news media that included the SEIU." http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/72537-union-pulls-back-on-supporting-senate-bill

ReadingSports 5 years, 5 months ago

Jonas-- I know the official line. Yes, of course. We don't share any common vision of what a faith walk should look like at all. So go ahead, dismiss out of hand my opinion on what mine is. By the way I practice Christianity, not religion. So you have difficultly with a faith that makes demands. :-) Did you really want me to discuss that? Oh why not... So am I to assume then that you've won a powerball, and are living in your Mom's basement. Because otherwise life is demanding. While we're at it there is no coercion here. You are free to follow whatever floats your boat. Absent having to pay for it at some point. Criticism, yes it is much easier to tear down than to build up. Since you want to bring Christ's teachings into this, shouldn't have done that by way. The mote in the neighbor's eye verse is about judgment, to paraphrase it says not that you should never judge, but that you have your own ducks in a row before you do, and that you should be clear on all the implications. Or people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. I feel that your criticism here is cheap, easy and unjustified.

Jonas -- obligations towards keeping our people well, as well as practical ones. Yes, wide availability of high quality health care is good and desirable. Everyone wants that. To pretend that Republicans don't is dishonest. However politicians also like to get reelected. And... I don't agree that this reform bill will improve the situation.

This forum by way, isn't conductive to anything more advanced than a bunch of 8 year olds in a spitting contest, which is what most on-line discussions are. Although it is nice that this particular discussion has advanced beyond the “bowling for morons” stage. Look at the global warming discussion today for an example of morons gone wild.

jonas_opines 5 years, 5 months ago

"So go ahead, dismiss out of hand my opinion on what mine is. By the way I practice Christianity, not religion."

Oh please, let's not play the selfless martyr here. If you had claimed it as Your opinion, there wouldn't have been a problem. You said that "For a Christian the point is" -- meaning it basically Had to mean this for Christians. Meaning that you coopted the individual expression of many different people into being by necessity the same as yours. I define that as arrogant. As much when priests do it as when you do.

"To pretend that Republicans don't is dishonest."

When did I suggest this?

"I feel that your criticism here is cheap, easy and unjustified."

Sorry you feel that way. Why don't you try to define what it is that I'm criticizing here, though. Since you've spent this Entire conversation twisting my words into personal attacks against either you or people of faith, and attacking me for viewpoints and topics that I don't actually hold, though, I'm wondering if you could even say what position or criticism I'm putting forth.

jonas_opines 5 years, 5 months ago

And by the way, you lose any and all credibility to being able to claim that I "dismiss out of hand my opinion on what mine is" when you start with:

"Nor do I suspect that you really understand the purpose of an invocation before a contest."

ReadingSports 5 years, 5 months ago

Jonas -- And by the way, you lose any and all credibility to being able to claim that I “dismiss out of hand my opinion on what mine is” when you start with: Right back at you. Jonas -- For me it was always a brief communal moment with the people gathered. I wonder, though, if You can truly say that you know what it's for.

Just because I hold to an "official line" as you say, doesn't mean that I don't own it. And your comment strikes me as dismissive. As for the priests, which I don't follow BTW --Protestant-- so arrogance is defined as learning from someone that is more knowledgeable that you? Not tracking that. You learned martial arts on your own then? Chinese, too? Chinese philosophy? Were your teachers arrogant? You teach, are you arrogant?

“To pretend that Republicans don't is dishonest.” When did I suggest this? Didn't say you did. (Limitations of the forum.) Ironically, I was trying to find common ground with the obligations comment.

Jonas -- Since you've spent this Entire conversation twisting my words into personal attacks. Again right back at you.

selfless martyr -- no martyrdom claimed. Disagreeing with you hardly makes me a martyr, especially not when I pick the fight, as often as not.

ReadingSports 5 years, 5 months ago

You said that “For a Christian the point is” — meaning it basically Had to mean this for Christians.

You edited out the "in a nutshell", which I meant as a qualifier. Christianity is a shared vision, there are colors and hues within that shared vision, but it is a shared vision. I was giving a quick snapshot of my opinion of my view which is common view, but in abstract. I was not giving a mandatory, view, there is little mandatory, in Christainity, except Christ, (don't want to forget that qualifier). If you would like, I'm sure I could take a couple of days... and expand it, but I think that I would bore both of us.
Sorry, that I didn't add enough qualifiers for you. Or at least it seems like I didn't add enough qualifiers... I mean thats my impression. Sort of. not trying to put words in you mouth, Oh, wait I'm still doing it. Or am I being a martyr, Oh, dang, That's still being a martyr. I mean can I go flog myself now? Oh, wait now I'm implying that you're picking on me. I mean... Give me your milk money! Or hey, my boogers got more color than yours! &$%#!

You are critisizing a voluntary group prayer meeting and Sen Brownback's involvement it. And by the way, neither one of us would ever have heard of this except for it's appearance on this site. I went to the website of Family Research Council, and I had to try to find it. Wasn't on the first page, or the list of events. For all I know Sen. Brownback might toss out a one-liner, and left.

I think some of what has been said in this particular topic was cheap. Conservatives have said some stupid things, too in other topics. And I have even called some of them out.

Boston_Corbett 5 years, 5 months ago

"Christianity is a shared vision, there are colors and hues within that shared vision"


So, does that mean that pro-choice Catholics should not be denied their sacraments? Why does it not work out that way?

ReadingSports 5 years, 5 months ago

So, does that mean that pro-choice Catholics should not be denied their sacraments? Why does it not work out that way?

I guess It bears repeating. I'm not Catholic.

FYI... I can't partake of Mass either. I'm not Catholic. If you want to take Mass then you have to do what the priest says. If you don't want to do what the priest says then go somewhere else. I don't want to do or agree with what the priest says; therefore, I'm not Catholic, I've never been Catholic, I'm never going to be Catholic.
No one has a right to insist on being able to worship in the Catholic church.

Also FYI, the bishop in question sent the senator in question, a private letter asking that he not participate. The mass wasn't denied, but the senator released the letter to the press. I think if I was the Bishop in the case, I wouldn't let the clown back into the church, I'd even do the candle snuffing bit, way cool ritual, btw. Very dramatic.

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