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Archive for Tuesday, December 1, 2009

Incident with grenade lands man in custody

December 1, 2009

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A 62-year-old man was taken into custody for a mental evaluation early Tuesday morning after an incident in northern Lawrence involving a hand grenade that later was discovered to be a “dummy” weapon.

According to Lawrence Police Sgt. Ted Bordman, police were called to the 100 block of North Michigan Street just after midnight because a 62-year-old man had been making suicidal comments to another person in the area and was holding an apparent hand grenade. The concerned person called police.

Officers set up a perimeter around the residence. Bordman said the 62-year-old man was standing in the front yard holding the grenade. The man was not making threats.

Officers got him to drop the grenade and took him into custody without incident. Bordman said officers recovered the grenade from the yard and determined it was a "dummy" weapon.

The 62-year-old man was taken into custody and transported to Lawrence Memorial Hospital for a mental health screening. No criminal charges were filed against the suspect Tuesday.

No one was injured during the incident.

Comments

denak 4 years, 4 months ago

Py,

I haven't read about an attorney taking a grenade into the courtroom. I'm going to have to look that up.

As for my post, I wasn't saying that he did pull the pin. I was just trying to make a point about what would have happened had he made a move to detonate the grenade.

Dena:)

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Multidisciplinary 4 years, 4 months ago

Here's what a friend's dad who is a psychiatrist told us about those screenings once when a guy we know did something like this, (sans grenade). When someone who is stone cold sober says something about killing themselves, without a weapon or something in hand, professionals might give that the benefit of the doubt if the person says they are fine, they use that line just like a comedian does, they have no intent of actually harming themselves, etc. If they feel the person might benefit from some counseling due to issues in their life, they will recommend it.

However, if that same person says the same thing: when drunk using drugs (rx or illegal) with a weapon or doing some dangerous activity.. (if they didn't harm anyone else or themselves seriously)

It was then pretty much a guaranteed trip to Stormont Vail West (locked psych facility) for at least 3-5 days (normal is 3 days, weekends=no docs to eval you, you're just killing time so you get two more days) for a cool off and eval. Not sure what the routine it is right now. Oh, get this, he said they take the person in a caged escort vehicle like they are a dangerous criminal. 2 guards, uniforms and you have to wait for hours sometimes. So think twice before you mouth off drunk to your neighbors folks, they aren't going to treat you like the person you are when you're not UTI.

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Pywacket 4 years, 4 months ago

yes you said that~ I didn't (and still don't) read her comments the way you have interpreted them. I guess if she cares, she will clarify, but it's really not a big deal... I wasn't challenging her. I just thought that she either had read both items & mixed up parts or had read a different version of this one somewhere, which perhaps added that detail.

Whatever.

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Leslie Swearingen 4 years, 4 months ago

Roe, thanks for the picture, now I will know you if I see you at Walmart. Did the man say he was going to blow himself up?

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Benjamin Roberts 4 years, 4 months ago

Py - denak did not state that he pulled the pin. She was using that as a what-if possibility.

denak - there is no law against possession of most demilled arms. Then again, most people do not use a demilled grenade for a suicide attempt. However, in this case the law could probably treat the dummy grenade as real, just as a toy gun can be used to commit armed robbery. Perception becomes reality.

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Pywacket 4 years, 4 months ago

denak~ Just to clarify, I don't see anything in this article about him pulling a pin. Did you read that somewhere else? Or, possibly, are you mixing this one up with the article about the attorney in the courtroom? The article I read on that incident did say the attorney pulled the pin.

As for whether the suicidal guy should face charges, I'd rather he receive treatment for depression or whatever his mental/emotional challenges warrant. If he had been perfectly sane & rational and using the device to threaten or intimidat others, he would clearly deserve to be charged. With mental instability, it's a little murkier.

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cricketeer 4 years, 4 months ago

where is former President Bush when we need him?

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BigPrune 4 years, 4 months ago

This guy probably thought the cops would shoot him - that's how a lot of suicides happen.

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acg 4 years, 4 months ago

I love any story that's headline starts with "Incident with grenade..."

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RoeDapple 4 years, 4 months ago

Guess I'll have to quit wearing my dummy grenades on Halloween... and my dummy M-60, ... entrenching tool,... m-79,...desert camo BDU's, ... camo face paint,.... Geez, what's the point.....

http://www.hd-report.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/predator-still-dutch.jpg

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Pywacket 4 years, 4 months ago

Infidel~ From which planet did you recently arrive?

Yes, suicide attempts are against the law. Let's see if we can guess why... Maybe because society needs a legal excuse to force a suicidal person to get help? Maybe because when someone is suicidal, they do not have their own best interests in mind and we need a way to ensure that they survive long enough to get their head together and renew their appreciation for living? (Apparently you have never known anyone who was profoundly grateful and delighted to have a second chance at life because others intervened when they were too delusional or depressed to think straight.) Maybe because, as jafs points out, some people's suicide efforts take out others as well?

Gee, that was a real stretch. It took me all of about 2 seconds to come up with plausible answers to your question. Hey, maybe if you'd stop and think before asking such questions, you could answer them yourself and spare others the trouble of schooling you.

Billbo~ Gee, here's another head scratcher. Let's see.... First--the Reno County incident is being investigated and that attorney may face charges or sanctions. (He probably should, IMO--it was a dumb stunt.)

Be that as it may, the situations are apples/oranges, and I'd hazard a guess that the attorney wasn't immediately arrested/taken in for a mental evaluation because it was obvious to everyone in the courtroom (according to articles I've read, no one claims to have been frightened) that the device was not live and that he was using it, however ill-advisedly, to make a point.

He was not threatening suicide, he was not threatening others, and his prior behavior had not given anyone cause for alarm. Now do you see the difference? Although charges may be appropriate and may be filed, there was no sense of emergency or immediancy because, unlike the person in Lawrence, there was obviously no suicidal/homicidal threat.

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denak 4 years, 4 months ago

I don't know the proper police procedure for dealing with an individual with a grenade but I can't help but think that the guy was trying for a 'suicide by cop' scenario. You just can't flash a grenade around and not expect to get shot. If he would have set that off (although I think by the time he pulled the pin he would have been tacken down) he would have killed or seriously injured himself (depending on the type of grenade) and would have done a lot of damage to his neighbor's property.

Personally, after he receives the psychiatric care he obviously needs, I do think he should be charged with something. If it is illegal to have certain explosive material (ie C-4,) then it should be illegal to have grenades..even a dummy grenade.

Just because this ended with no one being hurt, doesn't mean this guy should get off scot-free.

Dena

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LoveThsLife 4 years, 4 months ago

How sad, I really hope he gets the help he needs.

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oldvet 4 years, 4 months ago

Suddenly point a realistic-looking toy gun at a police officer and see how long you are standing... or breathing...

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Steve Jacob 4 years, 4 months ago

LMH does screenings, and will send you somewhere if you need it, which I sure hope this guys does. Would not be surprised if the police make him go in exchange for no charges.

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rbwaa 4 years, 4 months ago

infidel (Anonymous) says…

I did not think our local hospital had mental health care, or they closed some years back. I do not belive being suicidal is grounds for being taken into custody, which to me is the same as getting arrested. Perhaps killing yourself is a crime? ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ LMH does not have a 'mental health unit' but Bert Nash does have staff who are called to evaluate individuals who may be suicidal and in need of in-patient mental health care in other area hospitals.

By the way, what do you think should be done about someone who is suicidal? Should we just stand around and watch someone kill him or her self? Suicidal actions and threats are grounds for being taken into custody but not arrested.

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billbodiggens 4 years, 4 months ago

Apparently if you are a lawyer in Reno County and pull out a hand grenade in the courtroom you don't immediately land in jail. But, in Lawrence, while standing in the yard..............

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Benjamin Roberts 4 years, 4 months ago

"...and were able to get him to drop the grenade."

I know this ended without harm, thank goodness. However, is getting someone "to drop the grenade" the best choice for a grenade?

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jafs 4 years, 4 months ago

infidel,

If they thought it was a real grenade, and it had gone off, it's likely it might have injured others.

And, strangely enough, suicide is against the law in many places.

Although, what would the punishment be??

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Steven Gaudreau 4 years, 4 months ago

If you draw a N, E, W, S cross section through the city, where does 100 Michigan fall? North.

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infidel 4 years, 4 months ago

I did not think our local hospital had mental health care, or they closed some years back. I do not belive being suicidal is grounds for being taken into custody, which to me is the same as getting arrested. Perhaps killing yourself is a crime?

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rousseau108 4 years, 4 months ago

He was taken into custody because he was suicidal, not because he was holding a "dummy" weapon. And it's not like he was "arrested" and taken to jail, he was taken to get help at the hospital.

And LJW, the 100 block of Michigan is not in North Lawrence.

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infidel 4 years, 4 months ago

guess I better not take my dummy-toy gernade out in my yard

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infidel 4 years, 4 months ago

I did not know that holding a dummy or toy grenade in your front yard would lead to you being taken into custody.

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