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Archive for Thursday, April 23, 2009

Rice delivered OK to waterboard

April 23, 2009

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— As national security adviser to former President George W. Bush, Condoleezza Rice verbally approved the CIA’s request to subject alleged al-Qaida terrorist Abu Zubaydah to waterboarding in July 2002, the earliest known decision by a Bush administration official to OK use of the simulated drowning technique.

Rice’s role was detailed in a narrative released Wednesday by the Senate Intelligence Committee. It provides the most detailed timeline yet for how the CIA’s harsh interrogation program was conceived and approved at the highest levels in the Bush White House.

The new timeline shows that Rice played a greater role than she admitted last fall in written testimony to the Senate Armed Services Committee.

The narrative also shows that dissenting legal views about the severe interrogation methods were brushed aside repeatedly.

Comments

logrithmic 4 years, 12 months ago

And this article by former CIA officer Ray McGovern makes clear that Tenet and the frat boy fuhrer joined hands to cover their butts after 9-11:

http://www.commondreams.org/view/2009/04/23-1


From link:

"Until now, Bush has managed to escape blame for his outrageous inactivity before 9/11 because his subordinates-first and foremost, Tenet-have covered up for him....

Tenet gave the president enough warning to warrant, to compel some sort of action on his part. But Tenet's lackadaisical management of the CIA and intelligence community was at least as important a factor in the success of the attacks of 9/11.

Tenet should have been fired after 9/11. But President Bush needed Tenet, or at least Tenet's silence, as much as Tenet needed Bush, or at least Bush's forgiveness.

What developed might be described as a case of mutual blackmail disguised as bonhomie. Bush was keenly aware that Tenet had the wherewithal to let the world know how many warnings he had given the president and that this could reduce Bush to a criminally negligent, blundering fool."


Of course, one could make the case that the frat boy fuhrer could nver escape being a "criminally negligent, blundering fool."

God bless!

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ocean 4 years, 12 months ago

from October 2006: william rivers pitt

Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice may have committed perjury in her testimony before the 9/11 Commission in May of 2004. At a minimum, her testimony was a convenient mishmash of half-truths and omissions which served to paint the White House as innocent bystanders as the attacks of 9/11 unfolded. Certainly, her testimony omitted the fact that the two most senior intelligence officials in the nation delivered a stern warning regarding an impending terror attack two full months before 9/11.

Sunday's edition of the Washington Post carried a story titled "Two Months Before 9/11, an Urgent Warning to Rice." The story described a desperate attempt by CIA chief George Tenet and CIA counterterrorism chief J. Cofer Black to draw Rice's attention to the looming threat of an al-Qaeda strike against the United States. Tenet and Black insisted on a meeting with Rice on July 10, 2001. This meeting was first reported by Bob Woodward in his new book, "State of Denial."

"Tenet had the NSA review all the intercepts," read the Post story, "and the agency concluded they were of genuine al-Qaeda communications. On June 30, a top-secret senior executive intelligence brief contained an article headlined 'Bin Laden Threats Are Real.' Tenet hoped his abrupt request for an immediate meeting would shake Rice. He and Black, a veteran covert operator, had two main points when they met with her. First, al-Qaeda was going to attack American interests, possibly in the United States itself ... Second, this was a major foreign policy problem that needed to be addressed immediately. They needed to take action that moment - covert, military, whatever - to thwart bin Laden."

The meeting, according to Tenet and Black, went nowhere. "Tenet and Black felt they were not getting through to Rice. She was polite, but they felt the brush-off. President Bush had said he didn't want to swat at flies," the Post story reported. "Rice seemed focused on other administration priorities, especially the ballistic missile defense system that Bush had campaigned on. She was in a different place."

The Post story concluded with a remarkable Editor's Note: "How much effort the Bush administration made in going after Osama bin Laden before the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, became an issue last week after former president Bill Clinton accused President Bush's 'neocons' and other Republicans of ignoring bin Laden until the attacks. Rice responded in an interview that 'what we did in the eight months was at least as aggressive as what the Clinton administration did in the preceding years.'"
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logicsound04 4 years, 12 months ago

"We'll see the result when we are attacked on his watch and he won't be able to blame it on the previous admnistration."


So does this mean you are admitting that the previous administration is to blame for the attack that DID happen on its watch?

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logrithmic 4 years, 12 months ago

"Pelosi was in the know on waterboarding."


Lie. Go here:

http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Pelosi_denies_prior_knowledge_of_waterboarding_0423.html

From link: "My colleague [Porter Goss], the chairman of the committee, has said 'if they say that it's legal you have to know they are going to use them,'" she (Pelosi) said. "Well, his experience is that he was a member of the CIA, later went on to head the CIA and maybe his experience is that if they tell you one thing they may mean something else. My experience is that they did not tell us they were using that (waterboarding). Flat out. And any -- any contention to the contrary is simply not true."

Furthermore, Pelosi points out a major flaw of the so-called "intelligence committee." They must do everything in secret and cannot discuss their findings with other Congresspersons or even among themselves. This is outrageously undemocratic and very reichwing:

From same link: ""She said that members who receive intelligence briefings are tied down by secrecy rules. 'The point is they come in to inform you of what they are doing. ... What recourse do we have? None,' she said, noting that members cannot discuss the contents of confidential briefings with other lawmakers, even the members of the Intelligence committees."


Rightwing lie #2: Don't know if anyone answered your question, Jersey Girl, but to name two, the Library Tower in LA and the Brooklyn Bridge being taken down were two that were thwarted by enhanced interrogation, not to mention other AQ related intel and intel on an Asian cell. Bring yourself up to speed and jump on board Team America f yeah!!


As has been revealed, the reason for the torture was to get someone to admit that there was a tie between Al Queda and Saddam. This was done to try to justify the frat boy fuhrer's War on Terror. No link was ever established, by tortured confession or otherwise. Not only did the rightwing frat boy take us to war under false pretense, but he tried to cover his tracks. The bonafide trait of a rightwinger is the ability to lie shamefacedly.

To support this statement, check out this article which ran in the KC Star: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/227/story/66622.html


From link:

"The Bush administration applied relentless pressure on interrogators to use harsh methods on detainees in part to find evidence of cooperation between al Qaida and the late Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein's regime, according to a former senior U.S. intelligence official and a former Army psychiatrist."

The torture never had anything to do with prevention. You don't waterboard someone 150 times and expect anything more than a false confession. This is what frat boy, Cheney and Rice authorized.

God bless!

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duplenty 4 years, 12 months ago

jumpin_catfish misses the point, entirely.

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beobachter 4 years, 12 months ago

Cut out the cancer. That's exactly what the voters are doing. The Republicans are out of power and are clueless as to why. 2010 elections will get rid of a lot more of that cancer.

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tangential_reasoners_anonymous 4 years, 12 months ago

Replace scruples with scalpels. Apply the medical model. Cut out the cancer.

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jumpin_catfish 4 years, 12 months ago

Oh poor little terrorist got waterboarded.

I had harsher training in high school football practice back in the day.

Saps in DC make me ill.

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duplenty 4 years, 12 months ago

I think you meant with pity.

Are you always this wrong about everything?

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managialamiseria 4 years, 12 months ago

akuna, behind Obama unless he starts "showing signs of insanity"....my last smile of the day....with that, I am outta here, leaviing duplenty to wring his hands in frustration.....

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duplenty 4 years, 12 months ago

As I said, you should stop.

Here's Obama bowing.

http://blogsforvictory.com/images/bow.png

Here's George:

http://littlegreenfootballs.com/article/33289_Bush_Bowed_Too

There might be 1 degree of difference.

You are a moron if you think this amounts to anything, other than froth from wingers like yourself.

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managialamiseria 4 years, 12 months ago

geez duplenty....what did I write?...."“Bush was anything but polished,...."

then, and I'll type slowly....

"but he was more effective than Obama has been, to date".

Pls read and not inbetween the lines. English works well.

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akuna 4 years, 12 months ago

I think this discussion calls for a group hug . . . which to some people would be torture ;) I appreciate this open discussions too. Even when I get worked up - sorry about that.

It's unfortunate condition of humankind to retaliate with more force than was original delivered by the first slight. It takes an amazing amount of self control to act fairly and with deliberation. I think our forefathers knew this and that is why they set up the gov't the way they did. It takes checks and balances and a fresh perspective to make sure our actions are not unwarranted. Sometimes our systems fails us. After all it is only as good as the people in the system.

We are where we are. It is going to take camaraderie and sacrifice to get ourselves out of the hole that we are in. I, for one, am worried that we as don't have the gumption to overcome our obstacles - war, moral declination, recession, global warming, and more. We have a lot to deal with. Obama has a lot on his plate. I am behind him unless he starts showing signs of insanity like that of the Bush Whitehouse.

Peace my friends.

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managialamiseria 4 years, 12 months ago

Yes I do duplenty, but you clearly don't. Obama was freaking bent at a right angle, his head right around the king's crotch. Bush merely (slightly) lowered his head so the shorter sheek could get the necklace on.

No bow. No how. But I'm sure you won't be convinced.

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duplenty 4 years, 12 months ago

"Bush was anything but polished, but he was more effective than Obama has been, to date."

Yep, I don't see anything wrong with directly comparing 8 years with 90 days.

"Bush was definitely more “presidential”."

Indeed. Do you know what "presidential" means?

You should probably stop now.

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Tom Shewmon 4 years, 12 months ago

I would expect you and the rest of the Bush haters to only believe memos released by your Messiah and the results and "effectiveness" memo blacked out, only revealing the interrogation techniques. Tighten up your tin foil hat and have a big glass of Kool-Aid. Unbelievable.

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managialamiseria 4 years, 12 months ago

Call it what you may, but Obama is making the country less safe. We'll see the result when we are attacked on his watch and he won't be able to blame it on the previous admnistration.

Come to think of it, all the whining that is being done by the Obamanations is quite unique. When do you suppose they'll shut up and mind their own fences?

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duplenty 4 years, 12 months ago

"Bush isn't bowing, he is lowering his head so the king can give him a necklace,"

Do you understand what "bowing" is?

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couranna1 4 years, 12 months ago

if you back what your usa gov did you must also back the taliban as they use the same methods Hypocrites

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beobachter 4 years, 12 months ago

Tom, do you really think anyone would consider Tenet a truth teller? He, like Bush and Cheney are busy covering their butts and trying to hide the real facts.

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managialamiseria 4 years, 12 months ago

duplenty, did you watch your own video? Bush isn't bowing, he is lowering his head so the king can give him a necklace, then he, appropriately shakes the sheak and kisses him on both cheeks.

Bush was anything but polished, but he was more effective than Obama has been, to date. And Chavez didn't make a fool of him. Bush was definitely more "presidential".

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duplenty 4 years, 12 months ago

"Taking out Saddam, a dictator that killed thousands of his own people with WMDs can only have been a good thing."

We send people to be tortured by dictators that kill their own people, we even help them get elected or fight coups. So, can you explain the disconnect there?

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duplenty 4 years, 12 months ago

"In other words, without enhanced interrogations, there could be a hole in the ground in Los Angeles to match the one in New York. “

Except...that's already been disproven. Try to keep up with the thread.

"“Then-CIA director George Tenet, in his 2007 memoir"

And who doesn't believe everything George "Freedom Medal" Tenant says? Right? Am I right???

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Shane Garrett 4 years, 12 months ago

Akuna: I would have to agree with you on your last point. And I would never argue that GW Bush was even a good president. I could make a case for him being the worst president in my lifetime. Except, I hold a special place for Nixon. And one for Johnson also. Every generation has had to fight for their right to freedom and all the death seems so pointless. But since the first recording of history there are only about 100 days of world peace. History is a record of mans inhumanity against man. Until those in power give up that power for the betterment of mankind, then we the people are the only guards for our own beliefs and values. I appreciate all the discussions that take place in this open and free fourm. May everyone live long and prosper.

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duplenty 4 years, 12 months ago

"As for his statesmanship/diplomatic abilities, on his recent trip he made a pretty big fool of himself on several occassions (bowing to a king, letting Chavez make a fool of him, et al) "

Um, you do realize that George W. Bush bowed to that very same king, right? I mean there's footage of it and everything:

http://littlegreenfootballs.com/article/33289_Bush_Bowed_Too

And are you really comparing a handshake to a shoulder rub-down in the "making an ass of ones self while abroad" category?

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managialamiseria 4 years, 12 months ago

Akuna, and I agree that we cannot continually ride the range like the Lone Ranger saving the world. We'd be at war all the time.

That's why we need a functioning UN....which, unfortunately, doesn't.

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Tom Shewmon 4 years, 12 months ago

I don't peruse far-left blogs beoB, but here are some links I'm sure you'll promptly dismiss.

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2009/04/did_enhanced_interrogation_sav.html

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1892947,00.html

"Then-CIA director George Tenet, in his 2007 memoir, says that tough interrogation of al-Qaeda members — and documents found on them, he is careful to add — thwarted more than 20 plots "against U.S. infrastructure targets, including communications nodes, nuclear power plants, dams, bridges, and tunnels." A "future airborne attack on America's West Coast" was likely foiled only because the CIA didn't have "to treat KSM like a white collar criminal."

"KSM later acknowledged before a military commission at Guantanamo Bay that the target was the Library Tower, the tallest building on the West Coast. The memo explains that "information obtained from KSM also led to the capture of Riduan bin Isomuddin, better known as Hambali, and the discovery of the Guraba Cell, a 17-member Jemmah Islamiyah cell tasked with executing the 'Second Wave.' " In other words, without enhanced interrogations, there could be a hole in the ground in Los Angeles to match the one in New York. " http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/04/20/AR2009042002818.html


I could give you a hundred links, beoB, but you get the idea, don't you?

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managialamiseria 4 years, 12 months ago

Akuna, I wouldn't start comparing Obama's experience to anyone, 'cause he has none, or very little prior to becoming POTUS (gawd).

As for his statesmanship/diplomatic abilities, on his recent trip he made a pretty big fool of himself on several occassions (bowing to a king, letting Chavez make a fool of him, et al) and came back empty handed, so the rule is still out on his diplomatic skills.

Bush was way ahead of Obama at this point, because he actually got buy-in and help. I don't think most foreign diplomats respect Obama, just my guess, 'cause he came back with nothing.

Taking out Saddam, a dictator that killed thousands of his own people with WMDs can only have been a good thing. And, we've kept the terrorists busy in their own country, without the time to plot another attack on US soil.

So, I'm not 100% sure that although Iraq did not attack us that is was a complete mistake to attack them.

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akuna 4 years, 12 months ago

@managialamiseria I agree that the families of lost loved one want closure, though that is not exactly how you phrased it. Torture will not bring about that closure. How can they get closure when we aren't even fighting the people that were responsible for 9/11? We are fighting an unjust war that was started under the premise that Sadam Hussein was involved with the 9/11 terrorists. A premise that was sought to be solidified by forcing confessions from terrorist by means of torture. This is shameful. Truly and utterly shameful.

With your mindset of we must root out evil with any and all means possible, we will never be at peace. We will always be at war because that position forces others to take a stance against us instead of with us. Honey and vinegar.

@Wallythewalrus I am not "Comparing the deaths of thousands by organized dictatorships." I am comparing the methods used by Communist China to those sanctioned by the Bush Administration. Don't put words into my mouth to further your immoral argument. I won't stand for it.

Though, I think your comparison may be apt too. We are in an immoral and unjust war that was perpetrated by lies and deception by arguably the most dictatorial Presidency in America's history. Thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, of people have died under the guise of defeating terrorism. This is an atrocity on a global scale.

Defending the practices of the Bushies shows true stupidity and reckless decision making. Not to mention the moral fortitude of evil incarnate.

--

Then and again, I think the terrorist won. They achieved their goal of crippling American and expediting our fall from the top. We are no longer THE global power. We are now A global power along with most developed countries. Bush played right into their hands and now we have a much, much weaker America. We no longer have the coffers to protect ourselves as we spent more than reasonable for this "6-month" war. The only true protection that we will get in the future is by realigning and reinforcing our relationships with our allies. Thankfully we have an actual diplomat at the helm now. Not a flunky that has nearly bankrupted every enterprise that he has been in charge of.

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duplenty 4 years, 12 months ago

"but to name two, the Library Tower in LA "

Um, no.

"In a White House press briefing, Bush's counterterrorism chief, Frances Fragos Townsend, told reporters that the cell leader was arrested in February 2002, and "at that point, the other members of the cell" (later arrested) "believed that the West Coast plot has been canceled, was not going forward" [italics mine]. A subsequent fact sheet released by the Bush White House states, "In 2002, we broke up [italics mine] a plot by KSM to hijack an airplane and fly it into the tallest building on the West Coast." These two statements make clear that however far the plot to attack the Library Tower ever got—an unnamed senior FBI official would later tell the Los Angeles Times that Bush's characterization of it as a "disrupted plot" was "ludicrous"—that plot was foiled in 2002. But Sheikh Mohammed wasn't captured until March 2003."

"Al-Qaida's plot to bomb the Library Tower was not worth torturing anyone over."

http://www.slate.com/id/2216601/

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beobachter 4 years, 12 months ago

Tom, care to provide some verifiable proof for that wild a$$ claim.

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bad_dog 4 years, 12 months ago

wally:

Here's the balance of the definition you cited above:

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/torture

  1. Often, tortures. the pain or suffering caused or undergone.
  2. extreme anguish of body or mind; agony.
  3. a cause of severe pain or anguish.

–verb (used with object) 6. to subject to torture. 7. to afflict with severe pain of body or mind: My back is torturing me.
8. to force or extort by torture: We'll torture the truth from his lips!
9. to twist, force, or bring into some unnatural position or form: trees tortured by storms.
10. to distort or pervert (language, meaning, etc.).

Note the inclusion of "suffering" in addition to inflicting pain as well as the fact torture can cause extreme "anguish" to the mind as well as the body. The portion you cited above overlooks these facets. Semantics? Maybe not.

I've seen a couple of video demonstrations of waterboarding and neither one of the rather self-assured individuals wanted any more of it after the first try. One lasted about 10-12 seconds and the other perhaps 5-6 seconds. They both struggled to verbally relate why it was so disturbing to them, but essentially stated it was a very primal response where they had absolutely no ability to physically or mentally resist the sensation they were about to drown. These individuals could make it stop by dropping their hand as a signal to the interrogator. A prisoner does not have that capability.

I would submit that almost anything a person is forced to submit to, perform, eat/drink, listen to, look at, smell, read, etc, etc, can become "torture" assuming it is sufficiently repugnant to the recipient and the subject is required to do so without free will or ability to make it cease. The key is determining which button to push to evoke the desired response. In the case of waterboarding, the interrogator pushes a universal physiological button, triggering a fear of drowning.

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Tom Shewmon 4 years, 12 months ago

Don't know if anyone answered your question, Jersey Girl, but to name two, the Library Tower in LA and the Brooklyn Bridge being taken down were two that were thwarted by enhanced interrogation, not to mention other AQ related intel and intel on an Asian cell. Bring yourself up to speed and jump on board Team America f yeah!!

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Kyle Reed 4 years, 12 months ago

We should all definately sit around and debate who has the higher ground on the "torture" issue while the scoundrels plotting against us make further progress towards their goals. We are mulling around playing Monday morning quarterback when the game has barely begun.

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Shane Garrett 4 years, 12 months ago

"The Bushies were and are no better the the horrendous Communists of the mid 20th century." & "The US gov't prosecuted Japanese POWs for that performing that very act, alleging that it was torture."

These two statements alone show a true lack of historical knowledge. Comparing the deaths of thousands by organized dictatorships to "harsh" interrogations is just truely.....stupid. But, I have read it all. Democrates comparing Bush to Stalin and Hitler. Such words lead to a lack of creditably by those who would make such remarks. And relfects merely to personal prejudices.

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managialamiseria 4 years, 12 months ago

Ask the families who watched their loved ones get their heads sawed off on video how many "rights" these terrorists should have.

Ask families who lost loved ones in the 9/11 attacks if torture would have been an acceptable way to prevent those attacks.

My only problem with torture is the argument that it is not the best way to get information, which is what we're after.

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Shane Garrett 4 years, 12 months ago

tor⋅ture   /ˈtɔrtʃər/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [tawr-cher] Show IPA noun, verb, -tured, -tur⋅ing. –noun 1. the act of inflicting excruciating pain, as punishment or revenge, as a means of getting a confession or information, or for sheer cruelty. 2. a method of inflicting such pain.

I'm sorry, water boarding does not qualify. Semantics?…maybe. But definitions are definitions, otherwise I could probably prosecute my neighbor under the Geneva convention for playing his horrible music so loud all the time….It causes me much mental anguish.

I copied this from another post as I thought it reflected well on the subject. The i will even call them "harsh" interrorgations do not qualify as torture. And even president Obama does not want to waste time with the past administration. Only those crazed with power want to pursue this topic.

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managialamiseria 4 years, 12 months ago

Well, akuna, if you were in a position of government responsibility, your morals would get us attacked again. You, and Obama, are making a big mistake if you think that our enemies are going to respect us, or leave us alone, because we take a high moral ground.

I don't even consider a terrorist that is willing to kill innocent people a human being. They are dogs, worse, and have no rights afforded to humans.

They should be used to get information with whatever means is most effective. If that is torture, who cares?

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feeble 4 years, 12 months ago

@HW: I believe she made statements explicitly denying water boarding occured and that water boarding was torture.

More to your point, the argument isn't whether it was torture or not, none of the Bybee memos contest that the SERE technique is torture. The US gov't prosecuted Japanese POWs for that performing that very act, alleging that it was torture.

No one is actually forwarding a legal theory that the techniques are not torture. Rather, the legal position adopted by the Bush DOJ is that it was a permissible to use that act to obtain information that otherwise might pose an immediate threat to US National Defense if left undiscovered.

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akuna 4 years, 12 months ago

I have to chime in because the comments on the is story are very saddening.

@Wallythewalrus, @managialamiseria Torture is not okay no matter the circumstance. This is the problem with having morals and ethics. Sometimes you have to sacrifice what you really want to do in order to maintain your morals. To me, this situation is a no brainer. If you are struggling with your morals on this issue then you probably have the moral fortitude of the devil.

Besides how would you like your children to get caught and be tortured? The Bush Administration's actions have given our enemies justification to torture our soldiers and citizens without fear of condemnation or repercussions.

Additionally, the Bush Administration supported and taught methods of torture to their interrogators that were developed and perfected in communist China. Under the Bush Administration America slipped so far back into the past that our fair nation is no longer the America that it once was: Proud, Moral, and Spirited. It is now Arrogant, Immoral, and Bigoted. The Bushies were and are no better the the horrendous Communists of the mid 20th century.

I am glad Obama is president. It is going to take a hell of a lot of time for us to regain our credibility in the world. At least Obama is tending the wounds instead of constantly irritating them.

I truly hope Bush, Cheney, Rice, Gonzales, Tennent, and anyone else that was in the know (Dems included) about these practices come to justice. They deserve far worse than being thrown in prison, but my morals won't allow me to truly wish what they absolutely deserve.

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couranna1 4 years, 12 months ago

Put up or shut up now america you tortured people your top leaders knew What are you the good ole usa, the standard LOL of all that is right going to do You are a joke and the world knows Let's see how far your blatant hypocrisy will go Burn a flag today for Condi. its only american

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couranna1 4 years, 12 months ago

Put up or shut up now america you tortured people your top leaders knew What are you the good ole usa, the standard LOL of all that is right going to do You are a joke and the world knows Let's see how far your blatant hypocrisy will go Burn a flag today for Condi

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ocean 4 years, 12 months ago

god i would love to see Michelle Obama slap her in public!

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Jersey_Girl 4 years, 12 months ago

managialamiseria - that there weren't any attacks doesn't mean that they were prevented. Your answer doesn't prove that waterboarding prevented anything.

Wally - if Cheney said the info is there, then he should have provided it. If Bush and Cheney got results through their methods, they should have let the public know. I am a Democrat and was not comfortable with the idea of torture as a form of interagation, however if the government had been able to say that a plot to attack a certain city was uncovered and the terrorists were apprehended, all because of informaiton learned through those techniques, then I might reconcider. I never liked George W. He creeped me out before he was even elected. Reagan never bothered me, nor did George Bush Sr. But W. seriously creeped me out.

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Shane Garrett 4 years, 12 months ago

Either way I could care less. When the enemy saws the head off of an American, kills thousands of innocent civilians, and launches a sneak attack, of sorts; then any information gained by uncomfortable methods is ok by this American.

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managialamiseria 4 years, 12 months ago

Wally, according to Cheney, the info. ithat would prove the validity of "torture" exists in these documents. So, it's never going to be released. The witchhunt begins.

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Shane Garrett 4 years, 12 months ago

Jersey_Girl: the Congress is asking Hillary to release the memos that show the valuble information that the "I'll tickle you until you talk" interrorgations brought about. Her reply was something naughty about Cheney. She then lost creditability with the board. The info is there, Cheney said so, but the democraps do not want the American people to have knowledge; they want to continue to solidify their own power grab.

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managialamiseria 4 years, 12 months ago

Jersey, how many terrorist attacks were prevented? ALL of them. We haven't been attacked since 9/11. Let's hope the current admin. can do as well.

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Jersey_Girl 4 years, 12 months ago

Again, I ask any of you defending the waterboarding and other forms of interrorgation that Bush's administration okay'd, what valuble information did this get? I am asking seriously, even though my phrasing sounds a bit snotty. I really, truly want to know. In 6 years of these interagation techniques, how many terrorist attacks were prevented? Because I honestly have not heard of a single terrorist plot that was prevented.

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managialamiseria 4 years, 12 months ago

Who cares what the rest of the world thinks about us? The world seems to like Obama, yet he accomplishes nothing. Bush got much more cooperation from our allies.

You stand up and call for the destruction of the US. You are linked to terrorism. You are fair game. Waterboard away.

All of you ninnies calling for heads to roll over torture are more concerned with protecting terrorists than protecting your own people.

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HW 4 years, 12 months ago

feeble

All she has to do is say she did not believe waterboarding was torture when she made that statement. Not saying it is right or wrong, but an easy out for her.

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Tom Shewmon 4 years, 12 months ago

Scruples bozo? Like the ones this administration is showing. Riiiiight.

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feeble 4 years, 12 months ago

This is important because Rice submitted sworn, written testimony as part of a Senate hearing that explicitly claimed she had no knowledge of torture and never approved any use of torture.

She perjured herself.

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ArumerZwarteHoop 4 years, 12 months ago

as far as torute goes, water boarding is pretty mild.

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madmike 4 years, 12 months ago

KU, the rendition program was started under clinton.

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kugrad 4 years, 12 months ago

The only people who could have ultimately approved this are George W. Bush, Dick Cheney, Alberto Gonzalez, George Tenent, and Rice.
Our allies are furious about our torturing of people. We have lost any moral authority we may have had in the world; who listens to the criticism of torturers? We know that our extreme rendition program included worse torture than waterboarding, just performed by our surrogates so Bush would have plausible deniability to say "The US does not torture." So, Clinton lies over a BJ and is impeached. Bush lies about torture, trashes our constitution and values, and yet his defenders and apologists continue to maintain we should just put it all behind us, we did nothing wrong? What a twisted age we live in. These leaders need to be held accountable. The ONLY mechanism we have for preventing the recurrance of these types of crimes is impeachment and government investigation. There is nothing partisan about holding people accountable in government. It is the mechanism by which we maintain checks and balances and essential to our nation. We need a thorough, complete, transparent investigation into torture and our extreme rendition program.

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Flap Doodle 4 years, 12 months ago

Pelosi was in the know on waterboarding.

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50YearResident 4 years, 12 months ago

I knew that Rice's blind obedience to Bush for any and all of his whims and mistakes was going to get her in trouble!

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smitty 4 years, 12 months ago

Is does correct grammer or should that have been "do"?

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smitty 4 years, 12 months ago

Scruples??

Is this a green thing? Are they recyclable? Does scruples have pubic hair like the coke did?

Where do we send them if found?

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just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 4 years, 12 months ago

Is this any surprise? Rice has a long record of doing whatever she could to ingratiate herself to her superiors so that she could move up the ranks.

It's a shame that someone with so much talent and ability thought it necessary to totally scrap any scruples she might have ever had.

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