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Archive for Tuesday, April 21, 2009

Worried gun owners trigger shortage in bullets, rise in price

‘Running lower and lower and lower on handgun ammo’

John Geery, manager of Jayhawk Pawn & Jewelry, 1804 W. Sixth St., says retailers in Kansas and surrounding states are seeing shortages on bullets for 9 mm handguns, .223-caliber assault weapons and AK-47 rifles. And rounds that once sold for 15 cents a bullet, now sell for 50 cents.

John Geery, manager of Jayhawk Pawn & Jewelry, 1804 W. Sixth St., says retailers in Kansas and surrounding states are seeing shortages on bullets for 9 mm handguns, .223-caliber assault weapons and AK-47 rifles. And rounds that once sold for 15 cents a bullet, now sell for 50 cents.

April 21, 2009

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Bullet stockpiling causing shortage

People looking to load their guns may be out of luck. Ammunition is in short supply across the country. Enlarge video

Worried gun owners have generated a nationwide shortage of ammunition.

“We’ve been running lower and lower and lower on handgun ammo,” said John Geery, manager of Jayhawk Pawn & Jewelry, 1804 W. Sixth St. “The availability from these wholesalers is just drying up. Many of them you call up and they don’t have anything to sell.”

Retailers in Kansas and surrounding states are seeing shortages on bullets for 9 mm handguns, .223-caliber assault weapons and AK-47 rifles, Geery said. Rounds that once sold for 15 cents a bullet, now sell for 50 cents — that is, if you can find them at all.

“We see more people coming in here asking us for the same stuff, looking for the same thing,” Geery said. “They’re all in the same Easter egg hunt.”

The shortage includes rounds for popular semiautomatic rifles and pistols that were covered by an assault weapons ban, signed in 1994 by President Bill Clinton, which generally blocked some military-style guns with magazines that hold multiple cartridges.

In February, Attorney General Eric Holder suggested that the Obama administration favors reinstituting the Clinton-era gun ban, which President George W. Bush had allowed to expire.

The potential of a new ban is driving worried gun owners to stockpile bullets at such a rate that manufacturers can’t meet demand, and Geery said the frenzy surrounding the shortage makes people want to buy more and at any price.

“A lot of prelude to that, a lot of hysteria when these kinds of things happen,” Geery said.

Geery said a few other reasons are likely behind the ammo shortage.

He said metal, powder and other manufacturing costs are making it difficult for manufacturers to produce ammunition. Plus, he said, some of the shortage may be due to the amount of bullets being used in the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Other ammunition retailers in the Lawrence area had no comment or were unavailable Tuesday.

As for Jayhawk Pawn, Geery said the shortage is bad for customers but good for business. He said the shortage is bringing more people into the store as they scour retailers for ammo.

While the shortage has been growing since October 2008, Geery expects the availability of ammunition to eventually turn around.

“Just like everything else … it’ll boomerang,” he said.

— The Associated Press contributed to this report.

Comments

Jersey_Girl 5 years, 4 months ago

See? Obama is fixing the economy! The threat of the ban of certain guns is causing the increased sale of bullets, even at inflated prices! And you silly conservatives didn't think he was doing anything.

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Fred Whitehead Jr. 5 years, 4 months ago

This is the most stupid, damned situation I have ever seen! These hysterical gun nuts stockpiling ammo!! What a crock! Probably the same crowd that is predicting the demise of social security and listening to Rush Bimbo. The real hazard here is that these idiots have the right to vote.

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kield 5 years, 4 months ago

I'm with you there. I'm not so worried about the terrorists, I am more worried about the people stockpiling ammo. You hope one of these individuals dosent decide to go off one day. You hope the police can counter the individuals who have these stockpiles.

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wysiwyg69 5 years, 4 months ago

I sure hope it "boomerangs' so I can find some 357 mag ammo. The guns shows do not seem to be having a hard time getting any 9mm ammo or the 223. The only ammo I did not see was the 357 mag. 38 special ammo just does not have the same punch.

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MyName 5 years, 4 months ago

Considering the fact that the biggest domestic terrorism disaster was caused by someone with diesel fuel and a truckload of fertilizer, I'm not all that worried about a few people who are stupidly buying up guns and ammo like they're about to go to war.

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beatrice 5 years, 4 months ago

They store their extra ammo along with their left-over reems of plastic and rolls of duct tape.

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1029 5 years, 4 months ago

Yeah, let's just wait and see who the "nuts" are when Obama grows government to the size of the population of China and starts taking away all people's guns. The "nuts" will be the ones who didn't believe in the Constitution enough to take up arms and defend themselves. The "nuts" will be the ones who let the government tax them out of existence and give away their property without going down guns blazing. The "nuts" will be the government-owned, immoral liberals who are too busy gay-marrying and practicing athiesm to see socialism creeping up on them. Yeah, we'll see who the "nuts" are. I'm stocking up come paycheck Friday. I'm going to be ready to defend my freedoms. Freedom isn't free.

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oldvet 5 years, 4 months ago

As soon as the nitwit in the White House gets rid of the Second Amendment, the rest will collapse soon thereafter...

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RoeDapple 5 years, 4 months ago

Bill Clinton was responsible for record sales of firearms during his administration, due to his anti-gun agenda. Barack Obama is well on his way to beating Clinton's sales record in his first four years. The firearms industry would like to thank all you who voted for him, all the way to the bank! And I thank you, as my meager collection has risen in value by 30% since November.

Like to make an investment in something of value? Visit your local firearms dealer...........

Tell them Barack sent you................

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beatrice 5 years, 4 months ago

1029: "Freedom isn't free."

Apparently, neither is ammo.

I resent your saying that socialism is "creeping" up on us liberals. I'm sorry, but don't you know that there is no creeping involved. We liberals have socialism hoisted on our shoulders and are proudly parading it into town.

Our socialist motto: Either you're with us or you're with us.

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Scott Tichenor 5 years, 4 months ago

Remember, these are the same idiots that make up a region of the U.S. called "Cheney Country." Maybe some of them could go hunting out in western Kansas with him :)

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RoeDapple 5 years, 4 months ago

beo, I prefer "weapons enthusiast", but I'll answer to about anything as long as your fear keeps driving up the value. Thank you.......

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beatrice 5 years, 4 months ago

I love the bit about the shortage possibly being caused by the wars we are waging. Just think, if we hadn't gone to war in Iraq, we would be awash in ammo today. Silly conservatives, pushed for war and supported pro-war politicians and now look where that got ya -- fiddy cents a bullet! Thomas Frank was right. Once again, conservatives proved to have voted against their own best interests.

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Flap Doodle 5 years, 4 months ago

The 1994 "assault weapons" ban had a 10 year expiration date when it was passed. It sunset just as it was intended to do. The prediction of Uzis flooding the street seems not to have come true.

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RoeDapple 5 years, 4 months ago

As opposed to the sensible, organized leadership we have now? Digging the hole deeper doesn't improve anything over the previous mess. And I for one am not the least bit paranoid, I'm rather enjoying watching you all flounder in the mess you've brought on us. I'm old enough to not fall apart due to the effects one election creates, you are the one who seems to be bouncing from wall to wall in your mothers basement.

http://images.icanhascheezburger.com/completestore/2009/4/7/128836125857632647.jpg

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Jim Phillips 5 years, 4 months ago

The sheep seem to be getting bolder since the wolf appears to be one of them.

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gl0ck0wn3r 5 years, 4 months ago

I think the run on ammunition is a bubble and, much like other bubbles, it will burst. It is not entirely irrational though and I find it amusing when anti-rights people suggest this reaction is stupid and, in the same post, suggest that guns should be banned. Doesn't this simply confirm the motivation to stockpile?

If anyone caught 60 Minutes a few weeks ago, Dianne Feinstein was refreshingly honest in stating that, as a result of the change in government, she believed (and hoped) gun bans would be reinstated and made permanent. She suggested the only reason it wasn't higher on the agenda was because they were busy doing other things.

Personally, I think Obama will try to head this off before it hits his desk.

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RoeDapple 5 years, 4 months ago

Oooooohhhhhh Py, your paranoia is on red alert! Can't say I'm impressed with Sara Brady's lies being confused with facts, but you believe, therefore you must be correct. (almost said "right") Can't say my my house has any assault rifles in it, aren't those reserved for the military? And I hardly think of you as someone who I would want carrying concealed, too much anger, a threat to all the law abiding citizens out there.

And copper mesh beats tin foil, hands down!

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jackdaniels 5 years, 4 months ago

Let's all pray for a Limbaugh/Palin ticket in 2012. That'll put us back on the right track. They can take us back to the good old Bush days.

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RoeDapple 5 years, 4 months ago

No, jd we aren't interested. Most of us weren't in November (re Palin) and nobody I know thinks of Limbaugh as anything but a clown. It's the Dems that keep bringing his name up, in hopes he runs so you might have a chance in 2012. In fact, most of us recognize the mistakes of the last 8 years, and are flabbergasted the present admin is working so hard to do worse.

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gphawk89 5 years, 4 months ago

Funny, I had a meeting with my financial advisor today and brought up the question of whether or not gold would be a good investment right now. He told me that at this point buying guns and bullets would be a much better idea, and not just because of a potential ban reinstatement. He was totally serious.

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RoeDapple 5 years, 4 months ago

gp - - might need them to protect your gold..............

;-]

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RoeDapple 5 years, 4 months ago

Notice how when they foam at the mouth trying to upset us they end up leaving when they don't succeed?

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jackdaniels 5 years, 4 months ago

I am in the firearms trade and fully appreciate the need to protect our unique rights to own and use firearms, as do most thinking people. But what I see when I attend gun shows makes it clear that some of our old freedoms may be doomed. The anarchist books, racist bumper stickers, Ku Klux Klan literature, Nazi banners and regalia, parts for making full-auto assult weapons, etc. are a long way from the friendly, common interest shows that I grew up with. How did my simple bird guns and target rifles get swept up into this mean spirited, acrid, violent trade?

I attended a show a few years back and photographed a particularly disgusting racist t-shirt on a table near the door. The seller complained and I was escorted (by an Overland Park police officer) to the door. The t-shirt seller was allowed to stay.

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RoeDapple 5 years, 4 months ago

My policy is never give over half of retail value for used regardless of condition. If they want 75 to 80% of new price I'm better off buying new. Anything with a history can come back to haunt you. (or break down when you need it most)

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RoeDapple 5 years, 4 months ago

jd - - I too have seen thing I don't care for at gun shows. If there was no market they eventually will go away. Therefore, I ignore the t-shirt, anarchist, Nazi, KKK, full auto tables. They don't get my money, and apparently not yours either. Being associated with these people makes my skin crawl, but knowing the ACLU will come to their aid ahead of my second amendment rights makes it worse. I would prefer they not be sold table space at a gun show, and prefer that guns not be sold at whatever venue they would set up.

But what cha gonna do?.....

(Ag, that's not helping.....)

;-)

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jackdaniels 5 years, 4 months ago

RoeDapple, problem is, there's a BIG market for what the militant racists and anti government fanatics are selling. The wacko book sellers in particular seem to be thriving because they're always there. Realistically, I doubt we'll ever again be able to seperate the nut jobs from the collectors and sportsmen in the eyes of the voting public. God help us if too many legislators walk through too many gun shows. And it's only a matter of time.

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Kaw Pickinton 5 years, 4 months ago

Defender (Anonymous) says…

"If you have been to Jayhawk Pawn since John Geery became the manager, you will realize that part of the rise in price is due to his greed to make this store more profitable."

Did somebody not get their wedding ring out of hock on time?

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triplegoddess13 5 years, 4 months ago

Baaaa . . . baaaa . . . baaaa . . .BANG!

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saoirseglen 5 years, 4 months ago

Perhaps I have attended the wrong gun shows but I have never seen any controversial literature (racist or otherwise) nor have I seen anyone trying to sell anything that resembles full-auto conversion parts. In fact, the implied contracts, stated on the flyer slash table space sign up sheet for the gun shows I have attended as a licensed gunsmith specifically prohibit such things. If you were to try selling such things you would be kicked out of the venue and told to never return.

As for those who believe all gun owners are rabid lunatics, Liberals show themselves to be little better, especially with their pet issues. If it is acceptable to demonize an entire group of people for how a tiny fraction act, react and think then perhaps Liberal Obama supporters need to be viewed in the same manner.

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saoirseglen 5 years, 4 months ago

One addendum, regarding class 3 items, that being full-auto parts, assembled firearms and the like, unless one is a licensed class 3 dealer, which I have heard of in this region but not met personally, you cannot sell such items at gun shows. If you do have a class 3 federal firearms license you can sell such items at a gun show so long as they are legal to sell within the venue of the show and so long as the person buying them goes through the standard class 3 background check process.

Generally class 3 dealers and gunsmiths attend the largest shows as their inventory items are very expensive. The legal process to obtain the license and tax stamp for a class 3 firearm or to have it repaired is not easy nor speedy process.

If someone is an actual class 3 dealer they are not going to be selling conversion parts, as that is illegal. They may sell repair or replacement parts for an existing class 3 tax stamp holder's firearm but any sale of such item is restricted to someone who is either a class 3 dealer or private individual with a tax stamp. To do otherwise is illegal and is either being done by a BATFE informant or someone who has an IQ lower than a trout.

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RoeDapple 5 years, 4 months ago

saoirseglen - - most of these items I have seen at gun shows, however the full auto parts I remember being sold from 25+ years ago lacked one vital piece which you could buy booklets with instructions to make. Shortly after that BATF declared ANY part of a full auto weapon in your possession constituted full auto ownership, so those parts dried up or went under the table. My own curiosity with full auto was satisfied when a neighbors son-in-law, a FBI swat team agent, allowed me to fire the MP-40 issued to him. Fun, but expensive to feed. I prefer one accurate shot downrange to 30 random shots anytime

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compmd 5 years, 4 months ago

vertigo, Trade your .45ACP XD for a .40SW. That will solve your problem. The .40SW cartridge is a government standard now and is cheaper and easier to get.

As a collector it does sadden me to see the racist wackjobs that are sullying the image of those who have honest historical interest in firearms. I was at a shop to pick up something I had ordered recently, and there was a guy in there that looked like he could scream "I am a stereotype." All he did while I was in there was complain about Obama, illegal immigrants, and liberals. It was a little scary. What was weird is how the staff catered to these people. I'd assume its because they make them so much money. Personally, I don't own any "civilian" type weapons, my collection is entirely made up of military weapons. Am I a nut? Of course not. Some of these pieces have been involved in important parts of history. I enjoyed seeing the movie "Defiance" and seeing almost everything from my collection featured.

saoirseglen, recently I saw a rush on full-auto trigger packs for HK G3/91 rifles and MP5s. I thought about the investment in one for my G3 (since it would become worth many thousands of dollars as a class 3 full auto rifle) but they disappeared very quickly.

Jayhawk Pawn has gotten ridiculously expensive. They tried to sell me a well used shotgun at 90% of new retail price. Don't pay face value for any used firearm there, odds are there is a 100% markup on it.

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jumpin_catfish 5 years, 4 months ago

Waka1, glad you could comment. You always add a element of nonsense to this blog which already overflows with mindless opinions as it is. You know waka1, as a KU professor we expect a lot from you and you never let us down.

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justaverage 5 years, 4 months ago

Welcome to life in OBAMANATION! Also known as the United SOCIALIST States of America. Things have gotten WORSE since he was elected...

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Sean Livingstone 5 years, 4 months ago

Ban Gun? No. Ban gay marriage? Yes. Ban torture? No. Ban abortion? Yes.

Hey, some extremists sound very 1700s and 1800s to me. Looks like we need to set asides some national reserves for these people who prefer to live in the 1700s and 1800s.... in the wild wild west.....

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RoeDapple 5 years, 4 months ago

livingstone - - Ban guns? No. A protected right. Ban gay marriage? No. Gay people are still people and should be protected by the same rights as all. Ban torture? Yes. To any country, political affiliation or extremist group that extends the same consideration. Ban abortion? I'll make my opinion known if I ever get pregnant. Glad to see you're up and operating in the same shallow gene pool as always. So typical to hear that as a republican I should have the same views as your moronic stereotypical idea of what a "right winger" should be. And my children, registered Democrats, can out shoot, with hand guns, most of my "wingnut" friends. Back to the basement, livingstone(r).

http://images.icanhascheezburger.com/completestore/2009/4/7/128836125857632647.jpg

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Flap Doodle 5 years, 4 months ago

I'd advise keeping some wooden stakes and a big mallet with your ammo just in case there are a few vampires mixed in with the zombies when the balloon goes up.

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imastinker 5 years, 4 months ago

Guys - don't stockpile ammo - reload! It saves money!

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RoeDapple 5 years, 4 months ago

What wood species is recommended snap?

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Flap Doodle 5 years, 4 months ago

Hickory is good. Osage orange may not be as hard as some woods, but its color is pleasing. If you've got nothing else, a very sharp Ticonderoga No. 2 pencil will do the trick.

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RonBurgandy 5 years, 4 months ago

Py - you can't quote the brady campaign. Anytime a "gun enthusiast" sees the word "brady" they get their panties all in a bunch. It doesn't matter how much research the brady campaign has done or how right it is.

Obama is not going to repeal the 2nd amendment. It is amazing how gullible some people are. The U.S. is not a socialist country either, those that think so have no idea what a true socialist government is like.

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jafs 5 years, 4 months ago

I just wonder why an average citizen needs/wants to own assault weapons?

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stuckinthemiddle 5 years, 4 months ago

osage orange is an extremely hard wood... as hard a wood as you will find in north america... native americans referred to it as "iron wood"... of course the more common name is "hedge"

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dweezil222 5 years, 4 months ago

I don't give a good s*** how liberal you are (I'm pretty left-leaning myself anymore). Even you bleeding hearts shouldn't be willing to so lightly cast aside a CONSTITUTIONALLY GUARANTEED RIGHT.

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managialamiseria 5 years, 4 months ago

Saw an article recently on who is buying these guns & ammunition. The "run" is coming from people who have never owned a firearm, many of whom voted for Obama, not from the so-called conservative gun owners.

There were some interesting stats on 1st-time, "liberal" leaning new gun owners. I'll try & find the article.

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drake 5 years, 4 months ago

I, for one, am very well armed, supplied and prepared.

You libs just keep up your name calling and making fun. I wouldn't expect anything less from the Lawrence elitists.

If what we all fear is really coming (which we hope it isn't), those of us who are prepared are the ones that will survive.

The rest of you? You will come begging like the character that waka is pretending to be. But don't for one second think that any of us will help you.

If what we fear doesn't happen then good news and lots of ammo for target practice again!

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infidel 5 years, 4 months ago

I own an assault type riffle and here are a few reasons I own one. Because It's Cool Family Legacy For Hunting Self Defense Social Reasons Target Shooting As an Investment Historical Reasons Because the Founding Fathers Wanted me to

http://hunting.about.com/od/guns/a/whyownagun.htm

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Hoots 5 years, 4 months ago

This has nothing to do with the wars we are in as some speculate. During the height of our fighting all types of ammo were plentiful and cheap. This is strictly driven by people being affraid of Obama and very possibly these weird economic times. In addition we are in a period when people have an all time low opinion of congress. Indeed strange times we are living in.

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managialamiseria 5 years, 4 months ago

Took a friend of mine out recently who had never shot a firearm and we had a blast.

I really don't see why people get so worked up about guns. I get more worked up about the criminals who misuse guns.

And, I agree with the comments that our founding fathers gave individuals the consitutional right to own firearms to, among other things, defend ones person.

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gl0ck0wn3r 5 years, 4 months ago

"blue73harley (Anonymous) says… Very true. Cheaper Than Dirt and Sportsman's Guide have increased their prices a little but it still isn't bad. I have had to wait 3 months on a couple orders but I got them and at a reasonable price."

Yep. Anyone who buys ammo at a gun shop - let alone a pawn shop - is crazy. I use cheaper than dirt all the time. One can buy bulk online and save quite a bit of money and avoid local taxes.

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Janet Lowther 5 years, 4 months ago

"A liberal is someone who thinks a woman lying dead, raped and strangled with her own pantyhose, is morally superior to one with a smoking gun in her hand explaining to the police about the dead rapist at her feet."

There are a lot of that sort of liberals around, and not all of 'em are Democrats.

As for me, I've been hearing about runs on ammo since November, and it's just making the paper today. What gives?

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hipper_than_hip 5 years, 4 months ago

Have guns or alcohol killed more people in Lawrence in 2009? What about 2008?

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managialamiseria 5 years, 4 months ago

We've already had, in recent weeks, two shootings committed by people who had lawfully acquired their weapons, passing all the required background checks, licensing checks etc.


People are just plain nuts. Look at the Craig's list dude. No record. Clark Kent lookalike in blond. Fiancee. Decides one day to kill prostitutes. huh?

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coolmarv 5 years, 4 months ago

Gimme back my bullets- Lynyrd Skynyrd

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Flap Doodle 5 years, 4 months ago

"We've already had, in recent weeks, two shootings committed by people who had lawfully acquired their weapons, passing all the required background checks, licensing checks etc." The local shooters had concealed carry permits? I don't recall reading that anywhere. That's the only sort of firearms license I'm aware of in Kansas.

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managialamiseria 5 years, 4 months ago

snap, the shooters acquired their firearms legally, including any licensing required LIKE licenses (Misssouri required licenses until just recently). In their state, licensing may have been required, and if so, they complied.

Think that's what was meant.

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HootyWho 5 years, 4 months ago

why does anybody need more than a rifle anyway??? Handguns and Assault Rifles are not used for hunting,,,which is the only reason you would need a gun in the first place Don't like guns never have never will

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Flap Doodle 5 years, 4 months ago

The word "hunting" does not appear in the Second Amendment. BTW, not that reality intrudes on you, hooty, but there are people who hunt with handguns. S&W and Ruger, to name two manufactors, make handguns specifically designed for hunting.

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managialamiseria 5 years, 4 months ago

HootyWho (Anonymous) says… why does anybody need more than a rifle anyway???


Why do people need more than one piece of jewelry? Why do people collect more than one coin, or stamp? We could go on and on, but the answer is, "because they so desire".

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beatrice 5 years, 4 months ago

RoeD: "I am in the firearms trade and fully appreciate the need to protect our unique rights to own and use firearms, as do most thinking people."

In other words, those who don't agree with you aren't people who think -- is that it? Nice way to summarily dismiss any argument on the subject, even when you bring in some of the undesirables in our nation who are heavily armed and not for the benefit of most people.

Thanks for noting the haters at gun shows, which I am sure they are in the minority, but personally I wish you would speak up to gun-show organizers if you don't like material you see. Don't be afraid to call someone out for selling the garbage you mention. I know it isn't quite the same, but just walking past someone selling KKK and Nazi material without saying anything is like ignoring someone selling child porn. There are some things you just don't ignore.

“The mind of a bigot is like the pupil of an eye. The more light you shine on it, the more it will contract."— Oliver Wendell Holmes Sr.

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MyName 5 years, 4 months ago

Glockowner:

It is not entirely irrational though and I find it amusing when anti-rights people suggest this reaction is stupid...

So what, you think buying more guns and ammunition than you're ever likely to use at the height of a bubble is smart? I understand the idea if you believe that they may never ever have ammunition for your firearm if it is banned, but the smart strategy is to have a reasonable amount purchased when you buy it and then be ready to use a different weapon if you actually do run out of ammunition between now and the next conservative president (which you won't).

And all of this armed revolt talk is bonkers. The only way any president could take this country in a certain direction is if he has the armed forces with him. And that won't happen, unless of course you start blowing up things and shooting people for no reason. But then you're cutting in on their area and you get what you deserve.

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RoeDapple 5 years, 4 months ago

Ag - I've been laughing at this one from the first post! They call gun owners paranoid, yet they're the ones bouncing off their mothers basement walls! The more we feed them, the more they sputter like tongue tied anteaters! Most weapon enthusiasts I know are calm level headed individuals. These "anti's" line up facing downwind, then cry in unison,"I don't like the wind on my butt!", "Please lead us to slaughter, oh great one!" But they tire easily, and soon they will have to go back on the government teat for a little nourishment. Never fear though, they will be back, squealing like piglets at how afraid they are of one of the most law abiding groups in the country.

(I can hear the squealing begin already!)

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RoeDapple 5 years, 4 months ago

beatrice (Anonymous) says…

RoeD: “I am in the firearms trade and fully appreciate the need to protect our unique rights to own and use firearms, as do most thinking people.” "In other words, those who don't agree with you aren't people who think — is that it? "

No, bea, here's (some) of what I think.

I think you are very pathetically grasping at smoke and mirrors, reflecting whatever is coming out your backside, because your head doesn't know what it is talking about. The comments attributed to me in your post were not mine, whether I agree with any or all of them or not. Once again, this thread is proving extremely entertaining watching the hating left flounder in their fantasies.

That could be the grin for the day, thank you, bea.

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Satirical 5 years, 4 months ago

deathpenaltyliberal...

You would have a better argument if it weren't for the fact that Obama supported the D.C. gun "regulation" which was essentially a ban on all firearms in D.C.

In fact, in the past, the Obama website has contradicted Obama's policies (until they then removed it). So I trust what Obama has done in the past (supported tougher gun regulation) and what he has said (supported the D.C. gun ban until it was ruled unconstitutional) over what is on his website.

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beatrice 5 years, 4 months ago

"one of the most law abiding groups in the country."

Um, got proof on that one Roe?

Lots of guns used by criminals, and a gun used by anyone means that they are in "your" group. To not count them in your group of "enthusiasts" is like saying all people who drive do so legally and within the speed limit -- once you break the law by surpassing the limit you are no longer part of the legal driving group.

And stocking up on bullets out of fear that one won't be able to get them because of the big bad Obama is a bit paranoid, I don't care if you have wind blowing in or out of your butt.

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Sigmund 5 years, 4 months ago

If there is a shortage of ammo prices will rise. As prices rise more ammo will be made by those seeking higher profits. Soon the supply will be more than needed and prices will fall again. This will happen unless the Government decides to mess with the market by adding more taxes or bailouts for ammo makers (depending upon their whim). I doubt jaun69 will ever lack for rounds to waste! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kly-fVUi1I

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RoeDapple 5 years, 4 months ago

bea, you're still floundering! I'm not in the firearms trade, haven't spent $50 on ammunition in the last ten years, (have all I need, amount none of your business) (ha!) Of 280,000,000 legally owned firearms owned in the US, less than .5% have been used in a criminal manner. That leaves in excess of 278,500,000 legally owned weapons by law abiding citizens. Do all the law abiding citizens who own these weapons need to give up something they enjoy because your poop gets runny thinking about it? I didn't think so

Have a good one bea, enjoyed the chat.

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RoeDapple 5 years, 4 months ago

"once you break the law by surpassing the limit you are no longer part of the legal driving group."

So you would fine all drivers and take away their cars because a few break the law?

WEAK!

but keep them coming bea, some of these are priceless!

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Flap Doodle 5 years, 4 months ago

Barry is a product of the corrupt Chicago political machine that has been keeping the honest citizens of Chicago unarmed for decades.

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RoeDapple 5 years, 4 months ago

and don't forget one of the highest crime rates in the nation, snap!

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gl0ck0wn3r 5 years, 4 months ago

"MyName (Anonymous) says… Glockowner: So what, you think buying more guns and ammunition than you're ever likely to use at the height of a bubble is smart? I understand the idea if you believe that they may never ever have ammunition for your firearm if it is banned..."

Of course not. I didn't say I was buying massive amounts of ammunition. I said that I find it interesting that, on one hand, people dismiss the fears of gun owners and at the same time suggest guns should be banned. I'm very comfortable with the number of firearms and amount of ammunition I own.

"MyName (Anonymous) says… And all of this armed revolt talk is bonkers."

Agreed.

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RoeDapple 5 years, 4 months ago

Sorry Ag the firearms owners I know aren't stockpiling, most of us reload as needed. It's the "newbies" who are stockpiling, (read above) who consist largely of young demo first time buyers! That speaks volumes for the confidence they place in their chosen one. And by the behavior displayed by most of the "anti's" posting here, "calm " and "level-headed" is the last thing I would call them.

Love this, keep them coming!

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RoeDapple 5 years, 4 months ago

not sure what you're implying, Ag. My comment simply meant the president.

But go for it, I'll be back later to see what it is you are confused about

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Flap Doodle 5 years, 4 months ago

Have the prices of sulfur, charcoal and saltpeter gone up lately?

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managialamiseria 5 years, 4 months ago

snap, be careful not to get that salt peter mixed up in the mashed potatoes.

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beatrice 5 years, 4 months ago

RoeD, sorry about that. It was JackD who wrote the stuff about being a dealer and the gun shows (10:39 pm). My mistake -- so shoot me.

I also never said anyone should take away your guns. It appears that you have likewise mistaken me for someone else. Just because I point out how silly it is to stock up on bullets and care not to own a gun myself doesn't mean I want to eliminate your right to own. (I believe in certain limits, but that can be saved for another discussion.) Instead, I've just pointed out how funny the paranoia is among those who are stockpiling ammo, all out of fear of the big bad Obama coming to take away their precious guns. I strongly believe he isn't going to do anything of the sort.

However, back to your idea that gun owners are the most law abiding, I ask -- do guns commit crimes, or do people? (If you fail to answer correctly, your NRA membership will automatically be revoked and the ghost of Charles Heston will slap you.)

You can't just count the number of guns and subtract those used in crimes to get the percentage of lawful gun "owners." That math only gives you the percentage of actual guns used in crimes. There simply aren't 280,000,000 gun owners in this country, as most who own own multiple guns. I'm sure you know that.

In reality, since there are so many who do own guns in this country, they represent the society as a whole. I think it would be very difficult to prove one way or the other if gun owners are or are not among the most law abiding citizens in society since they ARE the society. I would just bet that it is closer to the national average. That is the only point I was making.

Now, quit talking about windy butts and poop, because it makes you sound like a freak with a fetish.

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managialamiseria 5 years, 4 months ago

Gun buyers motives...for guns...against guns, "it just goes to show ya, it's always somethin'"......Rossan Rossana Dana

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managialamiseria 5 years, 4 months ago

beatrice (Anonymous) says… RoeD, sorry about that. It was JackD who wrote the stuff about being a dealer and the gun shows (10:39 pm). My mistake — so shoot me.


Bea. you're obviously NOT paying attention. We can't shoot you, we can't find bullets.

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beatrice 5 years, 4 months ago

I mean Charleton Heston, not "Charles"

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managialamiseria 5 years, 4 months ago

Bea. yes, unfortunately, you'll have to wait for the shooting. In the meantime, could we interest you in a little waterboarding?

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missmagoo 5 years, 4 months ago

an ammo shortage is a SOLUTION, not a PROBLEM

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Flap Doodle 5 years, 4 months ago

managialmiseria, thanks for the reminder. I'm generally very careful about what gets into my mashed potatoes.

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Leslie Swearingen 5 years, 4 months ago

People use guns to kill people, to intimidate people. Anyone remember that movie that stared whois, that was about an army sniper that was betrayed by the military and framed for shooting the president? He had a super sniper rifle that he could use to hit a dime at five miles. How true is that? The snipers who got the pirates said that was a really easy shot for them. Is shooting that good a skill you are born with, or can it be learned?

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Satirical 5 years, 4 months ago

For everyone who thinks it is mindless paranoia to purchase something that may relatively soon be in short supply, ask yourself; if there was about the be a hurricane would you stock up on food and supplies? Or, if there was credible evidence which led you to believe gasoline would temporarily run out in our region, would you fill up your car with gas?

Some people might be paranoid, everyone else just wants to be prepared.

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RoeDapple 5 years, 4 months ago

Okay bea and Ag, my bad. No expert here, just feeding off the posts, inputting from my own experiences. I truly don't see the reasons on either side of this issue to justify the apparent anger that gun owners and non gun owners have for each other. If we were neighbors talking over the fence we might shake our heads after discussing these issues, then you might bring beers over for a brat roast later in the day. This is why I feel no anger when these discussions take place, just like it to stay lively. Ag, once again, I'm not the expert, just want to hear all sides. bea, sorry for stepping on your toes,(or any other portion of your anatomy)

Keep your ammo dry!

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beatrice 5 years, 4 months ago

manag, so as not to waste the water, perhaps we could arrange the waterboarding to take place in the garden. A bit of torture while helping save the planet -- code name "green t" -- is very "in" these days.

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Flap Doodle 5 years, 4 months ago

Hit a dime at 5 miles? That's Hollywood for you. BTW, people also use firearms to legally defend themselves.

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RoeDapple 5 years, 4 months ago

snap - - Once had a shooter claim his .270 would shoot straight out to around 350 yards then start to rise.

?

a bullet that defies gravity?

Never could get a demonstration, probably better that way...........

(no wonder they're so scarce, they just drift away.....)

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RoeDapple 5 years, 4 months ago

As far as hording ammo goes, I did know a guy in KC who would buy in case lots and probably had in excess of 200,000 rounds hidden away. He justified it by saying you never know how long of a stand off you may have. My response was, if 300 "enemy" troupes were bearing down on me, by the time I had fired 20 or 30 shots it would all be over anyway.

His fantasy, not mine

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managialamiseria 5 years, 4 months ago

Bea, GREEN TORTURE, by George III, you're on to something. Yes, waterboarding done in a garden to simultanously torture AND grow organic veggies. We could sharpen the blades on wind turbines and use them for decapitation devices WHILE providing clean energy.

Get rid of nuclear waste by duct taping it to terror suspects and letting them "run for it". And coal plant scrubbers??? You guessed it, get long poles, strap those terror suspects to the ends and use THEM to scrub out the CO2, sulfates & fine particulates.

And the motto? "We torture because we love our planet."

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beatrice 5 years, 4 months ago

"We torture ... for the children."

"We torture ... because we care."

"Waterboard responsibly, and save a tree."

We can get Tim Robbins and Susan Surandon to do the commercials.

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Summerguuurl007 5 years, 4 months ago

"President Obama has denied it more than once, and yet the Rightwing Propoganda Machine has people like you all in a tizzy, Satirical." And yet, President Obama's AGENDA on whitehouse.gov, under 'Urban Policy,' subheading 'Crime and Law Enforcement,' says this: "They also support making the expired federal Assault Weapons Ban permanent." (http://www.whitehouse.gov/agenda/urban_policy/) So I guess the right-wing hackers have just put that there and left it up for months without the President's knowledge. If the Second Amendment goes, then what's to stop all the others from going? It's the teeth of the Bill of Rights, designed to stop tyranny, be it liberal or conservative.

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Satirical 5 years, 4 months ago

Agnostick…

I have not denied that those with financial interest are helping fuel this fire. However, that doesn’t mean there isn’t any credible evidence to support this concern and everyone preparing is irrational. Obama is trying to tackle too much right now (with him trying to fool everyone that implementing his entire social agenda is somehow related to fixing the economy), so it is unlikely he will in the immediate future try to push any significant gun control bill. However, that doesn’t mean it won’t occur in the relatively near future.

Here are the facts you claim don’t exist which support a reasonable belief that gun control is on the horizon.

(1) Obama is a liberal, whose platform is for gun control, and most previous Democrat Presidents enact some form of gun control. (2) Obama has supported and voted for gun control legislation while in Illinois. (3) Obama said he supported the D.C. gun ban before it was rule unconstitutional (which shows he is willing to push control to its constitutional limits)

Now you can believe what Obama is currently says, but most people will be more convinced based on what Obama has already shown (only a mindless liberal sheep would actually believe everything that comes out of his mouth and ignore what he has already done). Also, some people realize he isn’t going to pick a fight until he is ready to start swinging. He wants to tackle these other issues before he comes back to gun control.

So my analogy of a storm on the horizon, is much closer to reality than your analogy claiming that it is ridiculous to even think there is the smallest possibility more gun regulations are passed.

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beatrice 5 years, 4 months ago

Summer: "And yet, President Obama's AGENDA on whitehouse.gov, under 'Urban Policy,' subheading 'Crime and Law Enforcement,' says this: 'They also support making the expired federal Assault Weapons Ban permanent.'"

Summer, you have misrepresented Obama's stand. It is pretty clear that Obama is stating here that he wants to make the expiration of the ban permanent, not the ban itself. Come on, he is on your side. Obviously.

Okay, I'm just kidding. However, as many will recall, when there was a ban on assault weapons -- and I wouldn't be surprised if it is re-instated (us liberals won, you know) -- we didn't see an end to all guns or an all out ban on all guns. It didn't happen before and it simply isn't going to happen now or in the near future. At best, it will just be a certain type or class of weapon banned, but not all of them. Geez.

Sorry Sati, but your storm on the horizon isn't even going to bring any rain. All it will bring are a few clouds perhaps, and questions about a storm, but there won't be any storm. It will just be a little give here and a little take there, all in the name of politics from both sides, and everything will pretty much stay the same. So relax already.

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dandelion 5 years, 4 months ago

I am more worried about the people stockpiling ammo. You hope one of these individuals dosent decide to go off one day.

One already has gone off. He killed a couple of cops in Pittsburg. He apparently was obsessed and certain that they were going to take away all his guns. I mean how else is suppose shoot the police officers. How dare they.

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wyattearp2 5 years, 4 months ago

Dandylion,

The poor guy in Pittsburg went off and shot the cops because Obama said he was coming to help him Change....but what he didn't know is that the cops, who were Republicans were there to save him from the BARAK HUSSEIN OBAMA CHANGE....

I think they said he was possibly a democrat or liberal, anyway he knew had made a big mistake at the voting booth back in November and was trying to rectify the his vote for CHANGE.... like so many are doing today.....

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Kaw Pickinton 5 years, 4 months ago

"Machiavelli_mania (Anonymous) says… While I believe that our gun rights will never be removed in this country, I wonder and worry that maybe the increase in price has to do with gun control in some manner."

No.. I blame the guy at the pawn shop in Lawrence for the national run on ammo. Profiting from a pawn shop, what a commie!

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compmd 5 years, 4 months ago

Irish, Sniper rifles generally have a maximum range of up to one mile. Mine are European, and the sights are marked out to 2km, though I haven't tested them beyond 100m. For the sake of comparison, the NATO standard heavy assault rifle (HK G3) is sighted to 400m, and is rather accurate.

To those who mention reloading: Some of us unfortunately cannot reload. Lots of military surplus ammo uses steel cases that can deform, or primers that are not meant to be reloaded. Also, some weapons purposely destroy the cases in normal use. My HK is designed to shred brass as it ejects; the chamber is fluted so when fired, some of the gas is used to push the case out of the chamber. The brass is left with deep striations along the neck, making it unsafe to reload. This is for the sake of reliability, since even with a broken or missing ejector it will still function. With a military weapon, reliability comes before reusability of brass.

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RoeDapple 5 years, 4 months ago

Vertigo, I once had a first time lady shooter comment," Wow, that's easier to operate than my Electrolux!" To which I replied, "Yeah, and it won't shock you if you get it wet."

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RoeDapple 5 years, 4 months ago

Irish, Within 4 hours I could have you hitting apple sized targets at 100 yards from a bench rest. By the end of a week, maybe a dime at 100 yards. If you aim at the dime you will hit close to the dime. If you aim at a place ON the dime, you will hit the dime. Others are much better shooters than I, but nobody could shoot a dime at 5 miles with a hand held rifle. All variables are compounded by distance. Provided the weapon was capable of reaching that distance, and optical sights were powerful enough, hitting something the size of a house at that distance would be remarkable

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Satirical 5 years, 4 months ago

tumbliweed...

You wear a seat belt out of fear from being injured in a car wreck, or being cited by the police. What a coward!

You can argue all you want, but all (seat belt wearers) are weak, looking for the easy way out of dealing with their fear: you let it win!

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RoeDapple 5 years, 4 months ago

Sat - Actually, tumbleweed will be hiding in his closet with urine running down his leg when some burglar breaks down his door at 2:00AM. Easier to just ignore him

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managialamiseria 5 years, 4 months ago

tumbilweed (Anonymous) says… let your fear rule your every move, cowards only cowards own guns


I have to pick one comment that is so utterly stewpid and respond.

Cowards freed you from a tyrant king, jerkhose. Cowards stopped slavery, peabrain. Cowards freed Europe from a tyrant dictator, dillweed. Cowards with guns you a$$.

YOU are an idiot and a coward to say something SO utterly stupid. (I don't own a gun)

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RoeDapple 5 years, 4 months ago

It is much easier to admit the error of their ways with the correct greeting.

Went back to bed, slept like a baby.

Wonder if they did.........

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RoeDapple 5 years, 4 months ago

second one left me a gift. 4 foot wrecking bar lying by back door when I went out to get the paper next morning.

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Flap Doodle 5 years, 4 months ago

'weed gets a round of applause for his efforts to bring the level of discourse on this thread down to that of a grade-school playground.

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BlackVelvet 5 years, 4 months ago

It always amazes me how some folks around here would scream bloody murder if they felt their first amendment rights were impeded, yet many of those same folks will rush to ridicule and talk trash on anyone whose opinion differs from theirs. Simply amazing.

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Leslie Swearingen 5 years, 4 months ago

The movie I was writing about was The Shooter with Mark Wahlberg, and he had a weapon with all kinds of gizmo's on it and it looked to me like he was about five miles from his target. He and his buddy were covered in camouflage with the weapons on tripods patiently waiting for the target to be in the right position. Good movie I think. More about this weapon. "If you haven’t seen the movie Shooter yet, then you probably aren’t really familiar with the longest range sniper rifle in the world. That’s right, this rifle, the CheyTac M200 Intervention has beaten out the Barrett M107 and Accuracy International AS50 (whose longest ranges were negligibly similar at approximately 1 mile) as the longest consistent accuracy rifle to date. Of course it takes more than just the .408 caliber rifle and a trained sniper to achieve hits at its max range, 2500 yards or 1.42 miles. You must also have all the components of the so-called CheyTac “Long Range Rifle System”, LRRS. This package includes the CheyTac ballistic computer (a PDA with ballistic software installed on it), a Vector IV laser rangefinder, and a Kestrel 4000 (a device that monitors wind, temperature, humidity, and atmospheric pressure), all linked to the PDA and the OPS Inc muzzle brake and suppressor. Later in the film, he demonstrates the extreme range capabilities of the M200 Cheytac Intervention, with a direct hit on a tin can from over a mile in distance."


Roe, Seriously, apple sized target at 100 yards? And, how much would all this cost me? I am living on a fixed income. Well, now that you have turned me from anti-gun to, whoa, I could do THAT! in one sentence, I hope you are proud of yourself. :-) when you say that!

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gogoplata 5 years, 4 months ago

Ammunition: Buy it cheap and stack it deep.

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RoeDapple 5 years, 4 months ago

dup, really don't care if you believe me, the wrecking bar is in my garage, doesn't prove anything to you, but I know. All this happened many years ago, probably before you were born

Many people are better shots than me, that doesn't impress me. As I said, no shots fired. Try not to pout, it makes you look childish

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RoeDapple 5 years, 4 months ago

No offense Irish, but I would feel a little like Charles Bronson training Jan Michael Vincent in "The Mechanic"

;-)

Your taste in sniper rifles is outstanding, but a little beyond my budget Don't think of myself as a "sniper", more as a hunter and puncher of paper targets

All this talk of who would be the better killer is depressing, I think of my guns as you might think of your golf clubs or your stamp collection. Yes the guns could be used to kill, but so could the golf clubs.

Maybe not so much the stamp collection............

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RoeDapple 5 years, 4 months ago

Irish - - I've taken out many a tin can in my day, you never know when a can of beans might try to sneak up on you!

;-]

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RoeDapple 5 years, 4 months ago

Multi - -It was the standard joke when daughters were growing up that I would be cleaning guns when they had a date with a new beau. "Hi, Johnny, this is my Dad!"

(Gonna have to think about this, teaching Irish to shoot, go over past remarks to her, analyze her replies, Make sure insurance is paid up. Where did I put that body armor? Maybe hire protection, temporarily.)

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Leslie Swearingen 5 years, 4 months ago

Body armor would do no good, because I know enough to aim for the head. As for the protection, I could wait a thousand yards away until you were both lined up one in front of the other and take both of you out. As you can tell, everything I know about guns comes from the movies. I wonder if Tutu Lee is available?

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RoeDapple 5 years, 4 months ago

Sorry, if I have to wear a tutu all bets are off!

;-]

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compmd 5 years, 4 months ago

Irish,

You can buy a rifle that will easily handle taking down apples from 100yds for less than $100.

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RoeDapple 5 years, 4 months ago

Irish , I found a Chey Tac M200 in .408 caliber for $11,600

sound suppressor $3600

Riflescope $2700

Ammo $8 per loaded round.............

(See Cmpmd post above)

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Hoots 5 years, 4 months ago

Funny thing is if you look at this it's motivated by people who have never owned guns before...ever...ever...ever. The newbies are freaking out...not the people who owned guns before. We are talking about many women who are buying assualt weapons...why? I must say the demographics in this thing are very strange. Fear does weird things to people. I think it's more super bad economy than Obama.

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soldier1 5 years, 4 months ago

tumbilweed-

With all due respect to your view points, you make it sound like you are the one wrapped up in fear. Guns accidentally kill people because they are mishandled, much like vehicles kill people because they are mishandled. People will go on a rampage with or without a gun, but a gun is usually used because it is the most convenient tool to use.

In response to the guy trying to break into your house, you are lucky he wasnt armed.

In response to "when the time comes", I hope you get better at the power of persuasion so you can disarm any adversary, because i'm sure that the way you talk to people now would make a mean guy want to stab you in the face.

It is not just "our" wars, but "your" war as well. You pay taxes that fund our nation's defense, so you contribute. Our forefathers gave us the right to bear arms to protect our civil liberties. It is an American citizen's perogative whether or not they purchase firearms. If you dont like this country, then get out.

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Flap Doodle 5 years, 4 months ago

"The interpretation of a person's acting out and an observer's response varies considerably, with context and subject usually setting audience expectations. Early years "temper tantrums" can be understood as episodes of acting out. As young children will not have developed the means to communicate their feelings of distress, tantrums prove an effective and achievable method of alerting parents to their needs and requesting attention. Ideally, as children develop they learn to replace these attention-gathering strategies with more socially acceptable and constructive communications. In adolescent years, acting out in the form of rebellious behaviors such as smoking, shoplifting and drug use can be understood as "a cry for help." The young person may seem to be disruptive - and may well be disruptive - but this behaviour is often underpinned by an inability to regulate emotions in some other way. See also: parenting, tumbilweed" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acting_out

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beatrice 5 years, 4 months ago

"You can buy a rifle that will easily handle taking down apples from 100yds for less than $100."

Or, you can buy an apple for two bits at the local grocery store and it will be nice and edible, not one blown to smithereens because a bullet ripped through it. See, there is always another way to handle a situation and you don't always need a gun to do it.

And if you are shooting at a person who is 100 yds away and it isn't a wartime situation, then chances are you aren't defending yourself.

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Corey Williams 5 years, 4 months ago

beatrice (Anonymous) says… "And if you are shooting at a person who is 100 yds away and it isn't a wartime situation, then chances are you aren't defending yourself."

Something that gets lost on a lot of people. Hunting is the only legal situation that could occur in this country where they would need that kind of range. Otherwise, you're just another Chuck Whitman waiting to happen.

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RoeDapple 5 years, 4 months ago

Hmmmm, not sure how my discussing hitting targets the size of apples and dimes became shooting a person who is 100 yards away......................

bea, once had an elderly lady shooting at me from about 500 yards while hunting on her sons property (with permission). I very cuorageously armed myself with cell phone and called her son from behind a tree. Seems her dementia had her believing she was under attack. Confilct resolved over coffee and cinnamon rolls.

;-)

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Flap Doodle 5 years, 4 months ago

"Hunting is the only legal situation that could occur in this country where they would need that kind of range." Wrong-o, skippy. There's a whole range of shooting sports that don't involve hunting, but do involve shooting at ranges beyond 100 yards. They're generally called target shooting.

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