Election 2008
In-depth coverage of the candidates and the issues, all leading up to the Aug. 5 primary and the Nov. 4 general election.
Republican state Sen. Roger Pine and Democratic challenger Tom Holland dueled Tuesday over immigration and Pine's residence.
The two are vying on the Nov. 4 ballot to represent Senate District 3, which includes North Lawrence, much of eastern Douglas County, including Eudora and Baldwin City, all of Jefferson County and much of Leavenworth County outside the cities of Leavenworth and Lansing.
At the end of the debate at Lawrence High School, Holland, who is a state representative, hammered Pine about where Pine lives.
"I believe when you have a candidate who has not been truthful about where he lives, then I think you do have an issue of trust in this Senate race," Holland said.
Pine couldn't respond during the forum because Holland went last in presenting his closing statement.
But afterward Pine said, "I didn't try to do anything wrong or improper."
The dispute is over Pine listing Lawrence as his ballot city and having voted in Douglas County even though he lives in Leavenworth County.
In the August GOP primary, Pine had to file a provisional ballot because a poll worker knew he didn't live in Douglas County.
Pine has said he listed Lawrence as his residence because that is where he grew up and lived most of his life. And, he said, in recent years he occasionally spent the night at the family business in Lawrence.
On illegal immigration, Pine noted he voted for a bill in the Senate aimed at reducing illegal immigration, but Holland charged that the measure wasn't tough enough.
Comments
Strontius 5 years, 6 months ago
Nobama,Ignoring for the moment that you're just trying to stir up argument, let me set the record straight on this issue. Pine committed voter fraud by voting where he doesn't live. The issue has NOTHING to do with him living inside or outside of the district, but rather that he's been voting in elections where he shouldn't have been able to vote. That's voter fraud. It's illegal. Pine knew it, and he was called on it.Congressmen and women are not required to live in their districts. This is true, but that's not part of the controversy. I'm afraid you don't understand the issue here (hopefully you do now), which is voter fraud, not whether or not he lives inside or outside his own district. And frankly, I don't care what the party affiliation of a politician is when they break the law. In fact, I want them punished even more than average citizens because they ought to know better more than anyone else.
S0uPnAzi 5 years, 6 months ago
Constipation, go get a life. You descend into name calling and snarkiness, and offer nothing but rude comments. Go $&#* yourself.
Nobama 5 years, 6 months ago
The relevance is that it was a non issue for Graves and is a non issue for Pine. He lives in his district. I have no idea why he hasn't capitalized on the Leavenworth residence or why Tom Holland wants to offend Leavenworth County residents so badly.Congressmen and women are not required to live in their districts so on that point it is apples and oranges. But check the link and you'll find some of the low life's who live outside their congressional districts and news flash-they are democrats. http://www.redcounty.com/sarasota/2008/09/two-florida-congressmen-dont-l/
Bob_Keeshan 5 years, 6 months ago
stevieags, where do you vote? Nobody cares where you pick up your mail.Bill Graves votes in Virginia now. Not sure what the relevance is.If the LV address is such a huge benefit then why did he falsify his filing in 2004 and again in 2008? Get real. It is because he is a liar and a criminal guilty of voter fraud.FWIW, Pat Roberts doesn't even own a bed in Kansas and he readily admits it. Again, apples and oranges. Still, good to know this is totally acceptable Republican behavior.
toe 5 years, 6 months ago
Maybe instead of throwing mud, they could throw pine tar.
Confrontation 5 years, 6 months ago
Oh, poor StuPidnAzi. I've yet to see any real thinking in any of your posts, unless you include the term "Democraps" in your less-than-creative category.
Nobama 5 years, 6 months ago
Bill Graves was the Salina, KS golden boy- ran for Governor from Salina, KS while living in his Mission Hills mansion. Pine's in his district which is what matters, sure he made a mistake. I'm surprised he wanted to claim Lawrence as home, he's going to get support here from the middle to the right anyway. Politically in this race it is an advantage to have a LV address for Pine. He should have played it up big that he is now a LV resident. Further it would help Roger with fellow Senators not being from Lawrence viewed as just another Marci.
stevieags 5 years, 6 months ago
Hate the break the news to you fatty Holland. I live in Leavenworth county and my mail address is in Lawrence, KS. There are residences that are across the Leavenworth County line and are Lawrence addresses. All politicians lie. Not just Republicians. Why are you singling out one particular party?
macon47 5 years, 6 months ago
they are both politicianswhat is tom hollands point?is he that desperate to get elected?
BigDog 5 years, 6 months ago
Yeah because we know Democrats are all honest ...... I mean Governor Sebelius, Barack NObama and Joe Biden are all totally honest ..... cough cough
S0uPnAzi 5 years, 6 months ago
Confrontation (Anonymous) says: "Republicans should not be expected to be honest. It's just not in their nature."Real intelligent, Confrontation! Paint all republicans with your broad brush, it alleviates you from having to do any "real" thinking, or exhibit any true powers of discernment...it's obvious the Democraps do your thinking for you! Having said that, Roger Pine cannot excuse himself with the weak a##ed excuse that he didn't think what he was doing was wrong. One of the many responsibilities of any elected official are to at least understand the rules of residency...shame on you, Roger Pine!
Confrontation 5 years, 6 months ago
Republicans should not be expected to be honest. It's just not in their nature.
Rick Davis 5 years, 6 months ago
Never mind, I just noticed the videos at the top of the page. But, i do wish there was more written reporting as some of us don't watch the videos and prefer to read.
TGar 5 years, 6 months ago
Re: my question "who appointed her"...I know she was appointed by the county. Who was the chair of the county commission when she was appointed? Bob Johnson? Jere McElhaney? It's the chair who makes the appointments. Does the Planning Commission not have any vetting procedure to verify the appointments? Hopefully, you will look at her comments and votes regarding the expansion of the urban growth area since they (the Pines) stand to profit greatly if their "airport development" project is approved.
Rick Davis 5 years, 6 months ago
Kealing, Is there another article that I missed or was this the entire coverage of the debate? I sure hope not since it doesn't seem to mention anything about the actually issues discussed. While I won't disagree that this residency issue is worth reporting, we have heard it all before. I would rather see some real reporting about the issues that effect all of us.
just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 5 years, 6 months ago
In other words, informed is here to puff himself up (apparently, others aren't doing it nearly to his level of satisfaction.)
Norma Jeane Baker 5 years, 6 months ago
bozo asks: "Why [sic]thenm when I posed a question to you of a substantial nature, did you attack me over my "reading comprehension" rather than answering the question or engaging in a discussion?"To which Informed replies: Because frankly, I haven't the time to be bothered with you. In general, you are one of the most passive aggressive posters on this board -- even if no one else will call you out on it. Your posting history shows that you don't really wish to engage in discussion, but that you enjoy barbs as much as I do. And today, I'm busy.This one is very simple, bozo. I'll even type s-l-o-w-l-y so that you can understand it: I asked Mr. Kealing a question. He answered it. He also pointed out that the JW had answered it before. I realized I was wrong and had missed the article. I thanked Mr. Kealing for his answer. I apologized to him for my tone.In some circles, one might say you've been pwned, but I would never say that.Enough. Now, I really must be back to my business of saving the world. Or, at least, certifying some new cool tech toys before they go to production.
just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 5 years, 6 months ago
"I actually have a job that pays me quite well. In return, it requires my attention from time to time."But it leaves you plenty of time to be a hypocrite, and jump to unsupported conclusions.
just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 5 years, 6 months ago
"They didn't agree with each other, but it was a great read. So, maybe there's hope?"Why thenm when I posed a question to you of a substantial nature, did you attack me over my "reading comprehension" rather than answering the question or engaging in a discussion?
Norma Jeane Baker 5 years, 6 months ago
No, bozo. I missed the article. Or possibly, even, read the article a while back and today I didn't bother to look in the archives to check. I actually have a job that pays me quite well. In return, it requires my attention from time to time. I don't always have the luxury of hanging out on news sites, local forums, or the FreeState porch.
Jonathan Kealing 5 years, 6 months ago
TGar-We're looking. At the moment we know she did serve on the planning commission while not a resident of Douglas County. She was appointed by the county.Jonathan KealingOnline editor
TGar 5 years, 6 months ago
Would somebody please investigate the legality of Mrs. Pine's tenure on the Lawrence/Douglas County Planning Commission and her vote to extend the UGA to include the property they now want to develop? I mean, really. This should be looked into. How was it that she was appointed to the Planning Commission and didn't even live in Douglas County? (Who appointed her?) How many votes did she cast that tipped a project a certain way? Come on, LJW, you can do it.
Bob_Keeshan 5 years, 6 months ago
BigDog, Roger Pine has willfully committed voter fraud for 9 years.Check this from the story: But afterward Pine said, "I didn't try to do anything wrong or improper."But he knew exactly what he was doing. In Roger Pine's world, what he was doing was harmless.So, BigDog, was it harmless to knowingly falsify his voter registration? Was it harmless to knowingly falsify his filings as a candidate for office? To knowingly falsify his information as an elected State Senator?When one candidate is a liar and a crook, then that is a pretty important issue in the election. I'm shocked the local DA hasn't taken steps to prosecute for voter fraud.
logrithmic 5 years, 6 months ago
I got news for you Tom. Pine is dishonest about a lot of things. I'm wondering if Pine's involvement in Deciphera and the Airport Business Park came up??? What about other Pine dealings?
Jonathan Kealing 5 years, 6 months ago
I'm hopeful too.
SMe 5 years, 6 months ago
BigDog how "much more knowledge about the candidates did you gain" really doesn't matter too much because (IMHO) we've learned Mr. Pine seems to either lie about his place of residence or not know the Kansas voting requirements which I would think a State Senator should.
Norma Jeane Baker 5 years, 6 months ago
While I know I can be rude and snarky, I rarely mince words, WilburM. And I really do appreciate all that the JW does with this site. I don't want to see it go away. Yes, it would be great to see real discourse continue. There was another thread yesterday that I thought had some great exchanges between SeanS and geniusmannumber1. They didn't agree with each other, but it was a great read. So, maybe there's hope?
BigDog 5 years, 6 months ago
Isn't is great that the article focuses very little on the issues and positions of the candidates, one of which will be representing you on very important issues in the state legislature.How much more knowledge about the candidates did you gain from this article?
just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 5 years, 6 months ago
It would appear that the reading comprehension problem is yours, not mine, informed.
The_Original_Bob 5 years, 6 months ago
"At debate, Holland says Pine not 'truthful' about residence "Mr. Holland -It is ok if you just call him what he is, a liar. No need to PC it up.
WilburM 5 years, 6 months ago
WOW -- an actual civil, fact-based exchange between Jon Kealing and "Informed"!!! More power to both of you -- and might this start a trend, however unlikely.
texburgh 5 years, 6 months ago
How many issues are there that Pine voted on illegally? For example, is the residence in Douglas County within USD 497? Did he vote to raise local property taxes for the schools? Or vote against them? Either way, as a non-resident, wouldn't that be illegal? Wouldn't that be voter fraud? How about school board races? City Commission races? I'd like to know a whole lot more about this.
Norma Jeane Baker 5 years, 6 months ago
Thank you, Mr. Kealing. I apparently missed that, and I do appreciate you setting me straight!! I apologize if my tone was over the top.
Jonathan Kealing 5 years, 6 months ago
Hey Informed-In a previous article (I don't remember which though), it was reported that Pine's ballot was accepted on a race-by-race basis. For instance, his vote in his own race was valid because the district covers both precincts. Same with State Board of Education. But his votes for DG County Commission were rejected.Jonathan KealingOnline editor
Norma Jeane Baker 5 years, 6 months ago
No, bozo, I'm looking for a specific answer to a specific question. I've never thought that your reading comprehension was that poor, but perhaps I have given you more credit than due.
just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 5 years, 6 months ago
The more important question would be to look at how many votes on how many issues over the last ten years Mr. Pine was ineligible to vote for, but did, wouldn't you agree, Informed? (Douglas County Commission races, for example.)
Norma Jeane Baker 5 years, 6 months ago
Again, I will ask, was the provisional ballot accepted and counted? This is not a tough question. C'mon, Mr. Kealing, I know you read the forums because you have often responded and given clarification.Was the provisional ballot cast by Roger Pine in the August primary accepted and counted?
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