Tradition of church has fallen by wayside
Doug Heacock, contemporary worship leader, Lawrence Free Methodist Church, 3001 Lawrence Ave.:
Although Lawrence is probably not a typical Bible Belt community, I've seen demographic data within the past few years indicating that on any given Sunday morning, fewer than 10 percent of Lawrence's residents attend a church service. I suspect there are two main reasons.
Before the 1960s, most people had some kind of church background. Our parents and grandparents either went to church regularly or at least had what they considered to be a "home" church, which they attended at Christmas and Easter. During the '60s, many people began to question the faith of their parents, perhaps as a byproduct of a growing counterculture movement, and many left the church behind. That generation has raised the current generation without nearly as much concern for church attendance, and now we have large numbers of people who have little or no exposure to the church beyond the unflattering portrayals of churches and Christians in the popular entertainment media, and feel no compelling need to check the church out.
But perhaps more significantly, many people today simply don't see the Christian faith as something that has much relevance for their lives. This may be partly because many churches have (a) failed to effectively teach Christians how to "live out" their faith authentically among their friends, neighbors and co-workers, and (b) failed to adjust their worship styles, teaching methods and outreach ministries to speak in relevant ways to the current generation.
The message of the cross is still a compelling, life-changing message that is capable of turning the world upside down, but unless we Christians are willing to actually live according to what we claim to believe, and to update our methods and ministries to adapt to the times, we're likely to become increasingly irrelevant.
- Send e-mail to Doug Heacock at doug.heacock@gmail.com.
Many Americans just don't understand
The Rev. Shaun LePage, pastor, Community Bible Church, 906 N. 1464 Road:
There are multiple reasons why so many Americans are unchurched today. Many believe the church is irrelevant and boring. Many have witnessed too much hypocrisy, fighting and pettiness. No doubt, the church must shoulder much of the responsibility. But I think most Americans are unchurched because they don't understand. They don't understand that Jesus started and is building the church - it belongs to him. They don't understand that the church is the central work of God in this age. They don't understand how much Jesus loves the church - he died for it. They don't understand that the church is people - imperfect people who needed a perfect savior to save them from sin and reconcile them to God. When you understand how important the church is in God's eyes, you realize it can never be irrelevant and boring. It is wildly important and has eternal significance. Those who understand how important the church is find it much easier to put up with boring preachers and immature bickering and all those things that imperfect people bring to an organization. Our families are imperfect, but we know how important family is so we put up with the irritations and work through the problems. I grew up in a church that was legalistic. I later attended a church that was constantly fighting over something. But I've also been a part of churches that were healthy. They were like families - not perfect, but full of love and joy and encouragement. My advice to the "unchurched" is to not give up. There are churches out there that will love you and help you and encourage you. Give it another shot.
- Send e-mail Shaun LePage at shaunlepage@sbcglobal.net.
Comments
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FloridaSunshine (anonymous) says…
Mr. Heacock...It's my understanding that you believe we, as Christians, need to "update our methods and ministries to adapt to the times or we're likely to become increasingly irrelevant."I agree with all my heart in what Pastor LePage stated: "When you understand how important the Church is in God's eyes, it can never be irrelevant and boring."The analogy Pastor LePage used (family/church) is significant in the fact that we can ALL relate to this analogy!! Let's try, as Christians, to emphasize (even to other Christians who may not yet realize), how very important the Church (ALL of us who have accepted Christ as our personal Savior) is to God. I see Pastor LePage's response as a most wonderful way to begin that journey! There are indeed healthy churches out there...imperfect people trying just as you and I...who will wrap you in the love of Jesus and nurture you and encourage you all along the way. You'll be more than willing to do the same for your brother or sister in Christ! It's a two-way street...we are instructed from Scripture to LOVE one another (John 13:34.) If all we Christians heed this mandate, there will be no need to "update our methods and ministries" and the LOVE of God poured out upon each other will never become irrelevant.
KawValleyKid (Nick Yoho) says…
Or maybe we just don't believe in myths.
tangential_reasoners_anonymous (anonymous) says…
Not so much "unchurched" as "de-churched."( ... and, Nick, to think that one can exist outside the *mythos*is not to understand the *mythos* )
toe (anonymous) says…
Many, but not all, churches have become a consumer product that changes with demand. This has damaged their standing.
triplegoddess13 (anonymous) says…
Maybe people are attending 'services' but those 'churches' just aren't a Christian kind/type/style/preference of church. Just because you aren't in a main stream religion doesn't mean you don't attend or practice what you believe in to your own purpose or self-enlightenment. That could account for your 'fewer than 10 percent' since this is such a diverse community.
just_another_bozo_on_this_bus (anonymous) says…
I'm with TRA-- happily "de-churched" for 40 years and counting.
cowboy (anonymous) says…
I have no problem with the church goers but have no need myself having been raised in Catholic schools thru high school i'd had enuf. I do however think it's a good idea for young ones to get exposure to the bible stories. Our kids all attended some minimal bible study classes with friends for short periods and seemed to enjoy them and got some base of religious information. They do need some positive input to offset all the BS they are exposed to these days.
canyon_wren (anonymous) says…
toe--you are right, in my opinion. Churches are trying too hard to popularize their worship services with marketing techniques. I believe that people who are moved to find a church are seeking something basic and "grounded," and all the efforts to remove "reverence" from worship and substitute shallow music and play-acting doesn't fill the need people have, though they may be attracted temporarily. At my church, our pastor's incredible sermons are the only thing that keep me coming --that and the good friends I have there. In general, it has become a "Center for the Performing Arts" and I don't come away from a service feeling like I have really worshipped. It's so sad.As far as people like Nick thinking that it is all a myth--it's your privilege, and "your funeral," as the saying goes. You are not alone and, unfortunately, WON'T be alone in the "hereafter," but that is what "free will" is all about!!
cowboy (anonymous) says…
the hereafter threats , good lord
canyon_wren (anonymous) says…
Good Lord, is right! It doesn't matter, ultimately, to me if you don't believe in the hereafter, cowboy (even though there are people who would say it SHOULD matter to me if you don't!). I don't consider mention of it a "threat" at all. That is just what I have been talking about--the fact that it is a matter of free will and some people will never grasp the idea. I seriously doubt if you (or any other living being) is wise enough to absolutely refute the idea of a hereafter. There is a large group of physicists who DO believe in God and the existence of life beyond the grave--and they have a more thorough concept of "unknown dimensions" than the rest of us. Your not believing in a hereafter doesn't eliminate the possibilty of its existence.To paraphrase what William James, the early psychologist-philosopher (and brother of writer Henry James) said in his book, The Varieties of Religious Experience-"not believing is too great a risk to take."
Dejacrew423 (anonymous) says…
I have never gone to a church in Lawrence but I will say this, part of the reason I go to the church I go to now is the sense of community I feel from it. When I first came to the church 5 years ago I truly felt like I was welcomed. I wasn't and am still not the 'prefect' Christian but I never felt like I was being singled out for my sins. Our pastor is honestly the most amazing pastor I've ever met. He's been there to celebrate our joys and most importantly helped us through some of the hardest times in our lives. Every hospital visit, good or bad, he's tried to be there. I know without a doubt he does this for all his church family. Like a mother setting an example for her children, he has set the example for our church and I've never met such caring and nice people in the community. I grew up in a church my whole life and never felt the belonging I feel at this church. Regardless of your religion, beliefs, or lack of beliefs, I hope everyone can find a church family or group like this.
canyon_wren (anonymous) says…
invictus, notnowdear, and Dejacrew423--what great posts! You three said it better than I could. Thanks for those contributions!
triplegoddess13 (anonymous) says…
Do you really need a building to belong to a group that you call a church? Or an institution to govern it?
overplayedhistory (anonymous) says…
"Again I say, the Religious Right will be the end of the American Christianity as we know it."I hope it end their BS tax exempt status too.
Made_in_China (Paul R. Getto) says…
People join and participate in churches for the same reasons they join other 'clubs.' Nothing wrong with this; we are a social species. As I understand the orginal teachings (before church and politics became one and the same for 1,000 or so years) prayer is private and between the person and the god they choose. Churches spend too much on capital expense to impress their neighbors. Money should go to the poor and the helpless, not fancy parking lots, stained glass windows, large rooms in which to drink coffee and socialize, etc.
yellowhouse (anonymous) says…
Free Meth.at 31st. and Lawrence Ave. Is an amazing church. experience for young people. The theme's that have been created for the childrens wing is nothing short of spectacular!Plasma TV's, an entire solar room with a Space ship, A jungle room complete with monkeys and trees, A ship wreck Island room complete with a ship wrecked boat!And the Teen room is truly a "WOW" Its got leather seating around big screen and plasma tv's, Game tables and video games, pool tables and foosball.
yellowhouse (anonymous) says…
The idea behind this is, that if they make the church a fun and exciting experience perhaps more people will come.Yes Prayer and Salvation is private, but churches are built to bring in the unsaved, and many of those people need something beyond just the promise of a song and prayer to get them to come! The hope is while they are here having fun, they will find God!
jakeoliver84 (anonymous) says…
9th Street Baptist Church is GREAT. I believe in January they got a new Pastor, and many KU football/basketball players attend as well so there are lots of prayers for the university!
canyon_wren (anonymous) says…
Paul G--I tend to agree with you. My experience with churches of several denominations (due to frequent moves during my life) has made me feel as you do--there's an awful lot of waste. I also resent the (relatively) generous salaries paid to many ministers/pastors, while members of their congregation are struggling to make ends meet. If I were "committed enough" to be a minister, I couldn't justify not having a legitimate job, as well, or having a noticeably higher standard of living than members of my flock. I also agree and believe that our call is to serve others (those outside the church, as well--not simply members of the "in-group") rather than using resources for fancy buildings and spending our time attending endless, often unproductive church meetings.
BuffyloGal (anonymous) says…
My basement is a very social place, with a large TV and lots of folks who like to talk about issues. There is even a large yard out the back for children to play in. The shipwreck went into the trash last week. No gods need apply and we are open seven days a week!
sourpuss (anonymous) says…
Maybe if we all didn't have to work 60 hours a week just to make ends meet, we would have more desire to wake up early on Sunday morning and sit in some hard chairs listening to a boring speech. Oh, and miss the football game. Can't forget about that.I'm not a Christian, but I still go to the Anglican/Episcopal church and I'm still a member. I think it is funny that I, an unbeliever, goes to church more than people who claim to be so faithful.
tangential_reasoners_anonymous (anonymous) says…
Nice to see the congregation all chiming in, this morning!Now, where's Pastor Marion?( Let us pray.... )
Dejacrew423 (anonymous) says…
While I'm not denying that there are churches out there with excessive items I will say this. Both our Awanas group and Vacation Bible School took all the money from offering that the children brought in and decide as a group where to send the money to help. None of the offering stays within the church. Also my mothers group meets every Wednesday and make various crafts or goodies to send to either people on our prayer list, retirement centers, or just special relatives. The nicest thing the church has recently received was stained glassed windows which were donated with the money received from my brothers memorial fund. There may be some really bad churches out there but I want to be the first to show that there are some really good ones.
peachesncream (anonymous) says…
i was asked not to come back to church... something about lightning and smoke and such, never quiet sure what they meant tho.
tangential_reasoners_anonymous (anonymous) says…
I'm still trying to fathom that whole "camel through the eye of a needle" thang.
jonas_opines (anonymous) says…
yellowhouse (Anonymous) says:"Free Meth.at 31st. and Lawrence Ave"Just for future reference, you really might want to just write out "Methodist" rather than advertising free meth. At least, if you want the right people to show up.
Dejacrew423 (anonymous) says…
good one jonas, that actually made me laugh
tangential_reasoners_anonymous (anonymous) says…
yellowhouse: "Free Meth.at 31st. and Lawrence Ave"jonas: "Just for future reference, you really might want to just write out "Methodist" rather than advertising free meth. At least, if you want the right people to show up."If you want the *right* people to show up, perhaps a reference to Oyx.Contin. might be in order.
jumpin_catfish (anonymous) says…
Churched out don't need all the drama and going to hell stuff
just_another_bozo_on_this_bus (anonymous) says…
Or perhaps the Reformed House of Latter Day CrackHeads.
just_another_bozo_on_this_bus (anonymous) says…
What makes you think they want you in UK, Tom?
Confrontation (anonymous) says…
More and more Americans are getting a hire education. Thus, they are getting wiser and less likely to fall for pure fiction.
just_another_bozo_on_this_bus (anonymous) says…
Tom has said he doesn't go to church.
acoupstick (anonymous) says…
"I think secular-progressives calling church-goers stupid got to them so much they gave in and quit going."Is there anything that you don't blame on liberals? You are ridiculous!
pity2bu (anonymous) says…
This is Lawrence Woodstock not the Bible Belt Community! Its a community of free speech and free love enhanced by Shrooms, Marijuana, Meth, Cocaine, Heroin and Crack. They don't need Jesus to live right, as you can tell by their daily blogs. Don't pass the bread and wine, just a Doobie and Beer will do. That's the Liberal Lawrence Community for you, known for the the Dove and No War Protestors. A place where only Woodstockers can raise their offspring without retribution.
Confrontation (anonymous) says…
You know I meant "higher."
tangential_reasoners_anonymous (anonymous) says…
Confrontation, I think you were spot on, the first time.,;-D
just_another_bozo_on_this_bus (anonymous) says…
pity2bu-- just because folks don't want to be like you doesn't mean they are persecuting you. But with your judgmental and negative attitude, it's no mystery why they might avoid you.
willie_wildcat (anonymous) says…
I am dechurched as well so to speak. Why does someone have to conform to the rules of an organization in order to achieve spiritual satisfaction? I agree with notnowdear's 11:02 post concerning the cross. To me it is an object that holds no meaning to me in any way shape or form. I feel more comfortable with Eastern teachings and philosophies than those of the archaic organized religions of the West. I have no issue with a person's choice of religion or worship. However, I have an issue when they try to shove their crap down my throat telling me I will rot in some fiery pit for eternity if I do not conform to their structure and beliefs and basically give up my ability to think for myself and find things out on my own.
slang4d (anonymous) says…
Well, as an atheist, it would be silly for me to attend church. I do however think about the lack of community I feel as an atheist and wish there was a weekly or monthly group for people like me. I would especially like to do community service projects with a group- ya know, show the world we're not bad people. I don't think church-goers are "stupid" and am all for people going if it makes them feel good. I also don't feel the need to criticize churches for taking money. If people want to give money to a church it's their prerogative. A church has legitimate expenses like any other organization.
coltrane (anonymous) says…
because the national 'corporate controlled media' made sports a substitute for religion?
Pywacket (anonymous) says…
Are you frickin' kidding me? Americans are the most churchy people around. And usually the more pious the surface, the more unethical the interior. You go to France, Sweden, Norway, Japan, Germany, Netherlands, Finland, or most other countries with any claim to sophistication and progressive thought and you do not have to listen to people casually dropping references to Jesus or parading God around the way they do in America. Interestingly, they do a better job of educating their children, maintaining a high standard of living, and caring for their health needs in those countries.You can't hear any public speech in the US without having somebody's god shoved down your throat. Thanks to the rabid religious right, it's become de rigueur for candidates to end speeches with a "God bless America" comment, as they know they'd be shredded by the shrill hypocritical voices of the pious if they didn't.The Eisenhower 50s cobbled "god" into the Pledge of Allegiance and now the religion-dependent bleat with indignation whenever anyone raises the idea of restoring the Pledge to its original secular, all-inclusive wording. They added "in God we trust" to our coins and bills, effectively erasing, in a hugely symbolic way, our separation of church and state. Many atheists and agnostics don't dare "come out" for fear of reprisals and harsh judgment (especially if they have children and don't want them shunned) in their predominantly Christian communities. Many Jews and Muslims are especially singled out for harsh treatment by proclaimed Christians. The writers' concern about people being "unchurched" is preposterous. The "true believers" may not be sitting in the pews on Sunday morning and throwing money into the plate (hmmm.. maybe that's really the source of concern), but they're out here--in droves.I have yet to see that all their wallowing in "faith" and slapping pious bumperstickers on their bloated SUVs is doing anything to elevate the US as a whole--it just gives people a convenient and easy way to feel good about themselves while ignoring the statistics on childhood poverty, infant mortality, standard of living, level of education, level of homelessness, availability of basic healthcare, and every other measure in which the US continues to fall behind other comparably wealthy nations (and many less wealthy ones) in terms of human wellbeing.
JackKats (anonymous) says…
The problem with "church" is that it has become nothing more than another social club or community activity center. Paul stated that all he did was preach Christ's death burial and resurection. The detour away from the message and the emphasis on other issues is why the church is failing.Why should we visit a place and gather together to worship God when God does not even attend those empty society clubs for the pretentious. The other portion of the equation of why the church's are failing is the notion that the delivery has to be updated. The church is trying to play to the emotion, compete with hollywood, blend itself to be more like the current culture, forgetting that man's heart, attitudes, sins and human nature have not changed and will not change as long as we are living in this world. The attitudes of the heart will be challenged through Christ and the power to change only comes through his indwelling spirit. The message of Christ is the same for today and the word of God is only way to get the message out. I am a sinner, the wages of sin is death, the vicarious death of Christ was given for me, and by my faith in Christ I will have eternal life with God in Heaven. The price is death and the price has been paid by Jesus.I am a believer and trust Christ as my savior with all my heart. My condemning the message the "church" gives is not a condemnation of Christ but is a full condemnation of the techniques, percentages used, methodology and doing God's work in man's power that is so prevelent today in most church's. I for one want to worship God in Spirit and in Truth and don't need upbeat music to get me moving, slide shows to keep my attention, journey groups to keep me feeling connected, or flattering words to keep me from being offended. I only want to hear a preacher preach the Word in God's power and point me to the solution that Christ offers. Let the Holy Spirit convict me, and not peer pressure sway me. Preach the word, get back to the basics of witnessing and leave the growth of the church to God. But first, let the church's foundation be sure by being established on the Rock.
RedwoodCoast (anonymous) says…
I've had several instances in my past where a friend had become 'turned on' to psychedelics. Many zealous Christians who can't keep to themselves remind me of people who just had some amazing psychedelic experience and have seen the Truth. I don't care what the Truth is, and I'm sure it isn't the same for everyone. I can accept that there may be some Truth out there, but I'm not going to attach any labels to it so I can relate to it more easily.
coolmom (anonymous) says…
i was churched in my childhood and was actually great friends with a military non-denom pastor and his wife we actually made them our kids godparents but he didnt have an active church so trying to do the right parent thing we took our children to several churches around lawrence and the sourrounding area to try and find a happy well adjusted place and finally left for good when our young daughter was asked if she was baptized and that if she wasnt she was going to the bad place. a child! no way was that okay. now we teach our children that they should do the right thing but to use their heads as to what that means to them.
BuffyloGal (anonymous) says…
Does anyone else have a problem with church being an adjective?
tangential_reasoners_anonymous (anonymous) says…
It's an invective, isn't it?
Agnostick (anonymous) says…
Tom Shewmon (right_thinker) says:"I think secular-progressives calling church-goers stupid got to them so much they gave in and quit going."This nation will not rest until secular-progressives scream and cry and get their way."______________________________________________________The only "secular-progressive" to call religious people "stupid" have been yourself, and Marion.Under your multitude of usernames and aliases, most of what you've posted has been hatred at mythical "secular-progressives." A kind of self-hatred, I'm beginning to suspect.--Ag
Agnostick (anonymous) says…
As to the topic at hand: Many people still go to "church" on the weekend--except today, these functions and ceremonies are commonly referred to as "sports events."When many of today's churches are as big as sports arenas, Nascar tracks, and stadiums... it's no wonder there's a bit of confusion there.--Ag
Hydra (Roger Ford) says…
I was raised in a Baptist church setting. I'll tell you what, I'll join any church that actually tolerates others beliefs, and claims there may be another path to heaven other than their own. Anyone know of any?
Agnostick (anonymous) says…
right_thinker, I've done nothing but question your motives, as I've always done.You're not the "conservative" you claim to be, and we both know it.You come here strictly for the mental masturbation you get out of the site. Every time you type words like "leftist"... "far left"... or "secular progressive," your brain fires off a fresh round of dopamine, increasing your ecstasy. In short, you're nothing more than a common drug addict, like Rush Limbaugh, ironically... one of your "conservative" heroes.So, go on, get yourself a fresh fix... Did you want to say something, perhaps, about how I'm not really a centrist or moderate?--Ag
just_another_bozo_on_this_bus (anonymous) says…
"Who is right-thinker?"He regularly violated this rule:"By contributing to this Web site, you agree not to post any defamatory, abusive, harassing, obscene, sexual, threatening or illegal material, or any other material that infringes on the ability of others to enjoy this site, or that infringes on the rights of others. "How could anyone possibly confuse you with right thinker?
Agnostick (anonymous) says…
It's not a joke, and you know it. Your blog is still out there:http://www2.ljworld.com/weblogs/right_thinker/Of course, that's the ol' "setup" of the joke.The punch line?How you, right_thinker, so many times in the past accused me, bozo, merrill and so many others here of either working for the World Corporation, or having some sort of "inside connection" with the administrators, because so many of your fellow hatemongers ("Conservativeman," for example) have gotten the boot. Others, like "RestoreReason," have zero respect for the freedom and independence of business owners, and feel they somehow have the "right" to imply their presence, over and over again, even when they've been shown the door.You, on the other hand, somehow used one of ***your*** "inside connections" to get re-established, after "right_thinker" was banned and a few of your other rogue usernames were tossed out.So, it's kinda funny to hear you consistently rant about "fraudulence" and "hypocrisy." Pot... kettle... black. Rose, name, lipstick, pig, yadda yadda yadda.Btw, I'm not offended by comments from *authentic* coservatives. There are a few of them here, and while I don't always agree with them, they're a lot easier to understand.--Ag
Agnostick (anonymous) says…
Is it possible that some churches have become too politicized? Author and writer Marcia Ford has some interesting stories about this, in her book, "We The Purple." I'll try to relate a couple of these later on. One of them is about the pastor at one church--congregation of @ 5,000--who gave a series of sermons, over several weeks, addressing the potential dangers of using the church, and religion, as a political tool.Shortly after he gave these sermons, the congregation/membership had dropped to 4,000... a decrease of 20%!One thousand people left; four thousand people stayed.Meanwhile, the Alliance Defense Fund (one of the extreme right's "answers" to the ACLU) continues its recruiting efforts to take on the IRS... and ultimately, SCOTUS and the First Amendment.http://baltimorechronicle.com/2008/091308Hickman.shtmlAgnostickagnostick@excite.comhttp://www.indepedentvoting.orghttp://marciaford.blogspot.com
Kansascubs (anonymous) says…
Jesus said, "I am the Way, and the Truth, and the Life...no one comes to the Father except through me." Pretty cut and dried....what other paths???? "There are ways that seem right to man, but in the end they lead to death"Church should be a natural progression of one's love for Christ and wanting to be a part of the body of Christ. Christ commanded his disciples to carry the message to the ends of the earth and that is what the modern church should be striving to do. Live out our love for Christ in all that we do and say and are.
jonas_opines (anonymous) says…
Jesus said, "I am the Way, and the Truth, and the Life:no one comes to the Father except through me." Pretty cut and dried:.what other paths???? "There are ways that seem right to man, but in the end they lead to death"Guess he was wrong, then, wasn't he?
Kansascubs (anonymous) says…
No...He was not. But thanks for the post Jonas....
Newell_Post (anonymous) says…
Hydra (Anonymous) says:"I was raised in a Baptist church setting. I'll tell you what, I'll join any church that actually tolerates others beliefs, and claims there may be another path to heaven other than their own. Anyone know of any?"-------------------------------------------------------------Hydra:Try the Unitarian Universalists. I love one of their recent mottos: "Find Us and Ye Shall Seek."
killjoy (anonymous) says…
Dear LJW,Do us all a favor and permanently remove ChristmasCarol.
jonas_opines (anonymous) says…
"No:He was not. But thanks for the post Jonas:."Prove it.
myvotecounts (anonymous) says…
I'm sure there are some church congregations that focus simply on providing the mechanism for individuals to come together to share and nurture their faith. But, these congregations are overshadowed by a growing number of church leaders of dubious authority who think "church" is a building, and that they are destined to build their own personal religious empires. Christianity is appearing more and more like a members' only organization and a political organization. The most visible churches are large, wealthy corporations who don't pay taxes, feel entitled to tell people how to spend their money (after tithing of course), how to live their lives, how to vote, how governments should spend their money, and with the Catholic church, they feel entitled to conspire to cover up the crimes their priests committed against children. None of this is consistent with my faith, so several years ago, I unchurched myself, without unfaithing myself.
tangential_reasoners_anonymous (anonymous) says…
killjoy: "Do us all a favor and permanently remove ChristmasCarol."CC does invoke a fair amount of traditional religious imagery, does she not? And it appears that you're only making her point..."Save for even though the Bible itself says; "Judge not least ye be judged". The very behavior of most the people in America in churches gather to do just that very thing.... People that go to church expect people to behave a certain way and if they don't then they are ostracized. Single unwed mothers, personal and psychological problems, affairs, drugs...." Now, what would Jesus do?
BuffyloGal (anonymous) says…
What would Buffy do?
BuffyloGal (anonymous) says…
She's watch this guy, though being in Australia, it'd be hard to book him into The Bronze. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFO6Zh...
tangential_reasoners_anonymous (anonymous) says…
,;-D... verbose, but accessible...
tanaumaga (anonymous) says…
"I agree. If church started at 2p, there would be a lot more attendance. I might even pull up stakes and go, or at least give it a try."13 September 2008 at 10:46 a.m.judging from the amount of time you have on the computer, you should have more than enough time to go to church.
rrussell (Rex Russell) says…
Grew up Catholic. 8 years parochial school. 4 years of CYO in high school in the 80's. Not exactly a "part-timer" growing up. Our parish priest molested multiple guys in the 6 parishes he served. Some of them were guys I helped get into CYO. 2 committed suicide in their 20's. Turns out there were complaints to the Diocese of Wichita for years. When they got a complaint, they moved him to a new church. Aiding and abetting a pediphile. At first, the Diocese tried to tell everyone that a few bad Catholics were torturing the good name of a good priest. When they knew all along. He ended up serving about 10 years in Lansing. I still beleive in God 25 years later, just don't have any faith in "church".