Archive for Friday, October 24, 2008

Lawsuit aims to tie up trafficway

SLT opponents pledge to fight indefinitely

Vehicles travel on U.S. Highway 59 just south of Lawrence. A lawsuit filed Friday in federal court is the latest litigation intended to block completion of the South Lawrence Trafficway's eastern leg through the Baker Wetlands. The western segment of the trafficway ends at U.S. 59.

Vehicles travel on U.S. Highway 59 just south of Lawrence. A lawsuit filed Friday in federal court is the latest litigation intended to block completion of the South Lawrence Trafficway's eastern leg through the Baker Wetlands. The western segment of the trafficway ends at U.S. 59.

October 24, 2008


SLT opponents pledge to fight indefinitely

The latest legal battle in the history of the uncompleted South Lawrence Trafficway is set to begin. Enlarge video

Related document

South Lawrence Trafficway lawsuit ( .PDF )

The next round in the fight over the South Lawrence Trafficway has begun.

Area environmentalists and students from Haskell Indian Nations University announced Friday afternoon that they've filed a federal lawsuit seeking to block construction of the trafficway through the Baker Wetlands.

They also were promising that regardless of the outcome of the lawsuit, they would fight the controversial bypass to the bitter end.

"This will be fought tooth and nail," said Mike Caron, executive director of the Save the Wakarusa Wetlands Organization. "This will be a national scandal if they're allowed to move forward. There will be Native activists and environmentalists from all across the country focused on Lawrence, Kansas."

The opponents of the $150 million project have contended - for about 15 years - that the freeway would significantly damage the environmental and historical integrity of the wetlands, just south of Haskell's main campus.

The basic argument of the case, which includes seven plaintiffs, is that less destructive routes south of the Wakarusa River were not adequately studied by state and federal regulators. The suit also contends that a proposed mitigation package falls short of protecting the wetlands from damages.

But supporters of the project say the route through the wetlands is the most fiscally responsible, and the most efficient way to move traffic around the city. The trafficway, if completed, would loop from Interstate 70 west of Lawrence to a point on Kansas Highway 10 east of Lawrence. The western portion of the project is completed to Iowa Street, while the eastern leg has not been constructed.

Vicky Johnson, who will be involved in defending the lawsuit as the chief counsel of the Kansas Department of Transportation, said she was confident the project had followed the proper process and had taken the appropriate environmental concerns into account.

Other supporters also said the mitigation package that would be part of the project will ensure that the wetlands and the roadway can co-exist. The mitigation involves building approximately 300 acres of manmade wetlands to serve as a buffer to the existing wetlands.

"If people say they value and treasure the wetlands, if they study the mitigation plan they can't help but be in favor (of the proposed route)," said Douglas County Commissioner Bob Johnson. "Not only are the wetlands expanded considerably, but the resources will be put in place so that Baker University can preserve the wetlands, I would say, into perpetuity."

But opponents said Friday that their concerns go deeper than environmental issues. The press conference began with Native American songs pounded out on leather-skinned drums, and a salute to a flag of eagle feathers. American Indian groups said the wetlands are an important marker of the history surrounding the struggle of Native Americans to maintain their culture in an Anglo world.

"We're all working together to keep this place sacred," said Patrick Freeland, a Haskell student and president of the Wetlands Preservation Organization.

The state has not secured funding for the $150 million project, but supporters have said they are optimistic about obtaining funding if they prevail in court.

The plaintiffs in the suit are the Prairie Band Potawatomi Nation; the Sierra Club; Wetlands Preservation Organization; Jayhawk Audubon Society; Save the Wakarusa Wetlands Inc; Kansas University Environs; and Ecojustice, a KU student group.

The defendants in the suite are the Federal Highway Administration, the Kansas Department of Transportation and related leaders of those two organizations.


deec 9 years, 7 months ago

We don't have debtor's prisons any more.

Scott Drummond 9 years, 7 months ago

Marion:What would be the basis for the lawsuits you describe in your 11:43 pm post? Given the ability of judges to impose sanctions for purely malicious litigation, such efforts would likely not end well for those who attempt it.

manus_flexibilis 9 years, 7 months ago

Hey, maybe they'll have another zombie parade down Mass! Playing Rob Zombie )loud(

senior_citizen 9 years, 7 months ago

Concerning the question of laying a bypass over the Haskell Wetlands, the rolling out of multiroute concrete over wildlife sanctuary and the graves of Indian children in order that gas-guzzling tanks can speed forward into head-on homicidal collisions is not my idea of a good investment.

yankeelady 9 years, 7 months ago

The trucks are already here and more will come when the centers in Gardner and Olathe grow. And even though the big semis aren't supposed to use 31st street quite a few do. Of course Iowa and 23rd street are nothing but truck routes anymore. I prefer the southern route, with the stipulation that the city does not then drain the wetlands and expand south to the bypass.

Michael Caron 9 years, 7 months ago

Those who are anxious to see the 32nd Street plan in place should consider that project in the context of what has been happening on the highways it would connect, the western leg of the SLT and Highway 10 to Johnson County. If you think KDOT did a poor job of designing safe roads in those adjacent areas, consider these facts: 1) On foggy morns the Baker Wetlands is socked in more than almost any spot in Douglas County (for many of the same reasons that caused this natural "sink" in the Wakarusa Bottoms to remain wetlands for decades after much of the rest was drained for farms).2) The former Naval and Air Force bases (in Gardner and Belton respectively) are being transformed into the nation's NAFTA trucking home bases. That means the truck traffic that will flood the SLT will be many orders of magnitude greater than the local delivery trucks that so bother some on 23rd Street. 3) The design of this road includes a major curve, with exits where the SLT bends south to reach the "bridge to nowhere". 4) South Jr High, Broken Arrow Elementary, Haskell Indian Nations University, and several churches sit directly downwind of that deadly fog shrouded curve and confusing interchange. 5) One in three big trucks now carries some form of hazardous cargo.6) One of the carrots KDOT offers is an "education center" off the south side of the SLT. Like the soccer and softball fields on the west leg, there is no question if, only a matter of WHEN a fatal accident would occur there, hopefully not a turning school bus tangling with those big speeding semis. Careful what you wish for in your rage against those who oppose paving this extraordinary history filled, wildlife rich, sacred place. This road does not belong in a wetland, it does not belong inside the city it is supposed to by-pass, and it certainly does not belong in the immediate vicinity of three schools.

Fred Whitehead Jr. 9 years, 7 months ago

This concocted fraud called the "sacred wetlands" has been around for years, generations of "Haskell students" (I wonder how many of them are actually enrolled??) have complained and moaned about this project in a location that is not their home mostly due to the fact they simply have nothing to do but formulate phoney policy about what is basically mis-managed former farmland. Poor planning resulted in standing water, which is a violation of Lawrence City ordnances, and in a most unbelievable twist of stupidity, this mosquito-infested swamp became some sort of sacred, hallowed ground. It never ceases to amaze me at the extremes that some deformed personalities can arrive at by simply not having enough to do. These misguided people simply want to make some sort of statement of fraudulant policy to bolster their otherwise nondescript lives and to shove it "in your face" to the responsible, reasonable people of the permanent community who have spent their lives here and want a solution to the traffic mess that exists at 5 o'clock every weekday. This has nothing to do with race discrimination, history, past mis-deeds of persons who have been dead for over a hunders years, it is simply the pathetic moanings of distorted personalities, both resident and non-resident to make some sort of loud sqeek in the public notice.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 9 years, 7 months ago

"Haskell is lucky to be a college for Native Americans."Haskell exists as a result of treaty obligations the US Government has with sovereign Indian nations. The US Govt. has an abysmal record in upholding those treaty obligations. It's only because Lawrence upheld that long standing, pitiful tradition that Baker was able to gain control of that portion of Haskell's campus, only to sell it off to the highest bidder, who intends to destroy it.But for many in Lawrence, their convenience is much too important to be bothered by anything like facts or ethics.

Richard Heckler 9 years, 7 months ago

Moving existing roads such as Louisiana,31st and Haskell to make the bypass is absurd and a waste of tax dollars. Douglas County needs new thinkers. Nancy Thellman and Ken Grotewiel are the only ones voicing any desire to take another look which is in the best interest of taxpayers across the board.Why elect new faces to the county commission who are willing to blindly accept a decision made over 20 years ago? This is the same as adopting the Bush mentallity of "stay the course" which has the nation in financial ruin. Voters need 3 new bypass plans with which to choose from.Why is this a wetlands/flood area? Simple because it is one of the lowest points in Douglas County. Any type of farming was not successful because of flood waters that migrated to this low point.I say choose other route plans instead of blindly accepting a decison made more than 20 years which is nothing more than adopting the Bush mentality of 'stay the course". This plan is old and in the way. Nancy Thellman and Ken Grotewiel are the only ones voicing any desire to take another look which is in the best interest of taxpayers across the board.Not only that the existing plan will dump tons of 18 wheelers off on K-10 way too close to the city of Lawrence.Why do elected officials aka politicians not trust the taxpayers to make a more prudent decision that which would be selecting a site void of any environmentally sensitive areas?Provide taxpayers with 3 new plans that will facilitate traffic at todays demands, completely void of environmentally sensitive areas. Show the voter taxpayers some respect.Attach with these 3 new plans real dollar numbers because we all know dollar numbers with age are no longer viable.Voters do away with the Bush mentallity of "stay the course" which has the nation in financial ruin. It is time to take our county back!Nancy Thellman and Ken Grotewiel are the only ones voicing any desire to take another look which is in the best interest of taxpayers across the board. Neither seem to be tied to the Chamber and developer money so far as I can determine.

Chris Ogle 9 years, 7 months ago

The story goes like this:At one of the many SLT meetings, an older man dressed in Bibs got up and spoke his mind saying " I heard from this college boy that the sun may burn itself out in the 300 million yrs" The room was silent..... then he continued " So all I got to say is that you all best figure out something, or you will building this thing in the dark"

Michael Caron 9 years, 7 months ago

Redmoonrising makes the mistake of taking what she reads in the paper at face value. She was not standing beside Mike Caron when he told the reporter (Chad Lawhorn) that he sincerely believed the best solution would be for the proponents and opponents to seriously discuss a compromise. Caron explicitly said that if the SLT "by-pass" were moved out of the wetlands, south of the area where Lawrence already intends to grow, many of the opponents would be open to discussions of how the city could build a local arterial to meet local needs. First there would have to be serious commitment to create a roadway that allowed both small and large wildlife to cross in both directions. It would need to be designed in a way that clearly respected Haskell's desire not to be cut off from lands that were historically an integral part of their campus. This stolen land is still considered a sacred place by many Haskell students and alumni. The litany of hateful racist comments that have been posted here on this subject by our community's meanest mindless minority is far more embarrassing than anything shouted at a football game. You'd have to attend a Palin rally to come close.Redmoonrising once posted: "a lot of us have our feet cast in concrete, along with our minds, and would never consider that the other person has some meaningful thoughts as well that may not agree with ours. Without compromise on all parts, how can a problem like this ever be resolved?" I could not agree more.

Richard Heckler 9 years, 7 months ago

I-70 connectors as they were called on a KDOT "map of routes". East of Lawrence using the existing K10- 1900rd/1057 interchange. That may between Eudora and Desoto. That is a few miles outside of Lawrence.. It services:¢ Johnson and Douglas counties' traffic going to northwest Lawrence or Topeka.¢ the Eudora Business Park east of 1057.¢ East Hills Business Park and the southeast Lawrence industrial park.¢ the Lawrence airport.And it:¢ diverts traffic around the city.¢ keeps the SLT out of the wetlands.¢ reduces congestion for morning and afternoon commuters.¢ might save Douglas County taxpayers millions of dollars.¢ is prudent use of tax dollars.¢ eliminates the need for an eastern bypass.¢ eliminates much large truck traffic on 23rd Street.¢ could allow KTA fees to pay for the highway and the maintenance.

somebodynew 9 years, 7 months ago

You know I just thought about this. For once the Editors at LJW have come up with an appropiate headline. That is all any of these lawsuits have done is to "tie up the trafficway". They have managed to delay this project for 20 years, even though they have lost some rulings. As long as they are allowed to file all of the suits, they will. Delay, delay, delay and maybe it will go away. They are NOT winning, just delaying. Very sad.

GOPConservative 9 years, 7 months ago

somebodyne (Anonymous), long before the frog protests you menioned was a long range plan that was based on broad-based citizen participation. This original plan (circa 1970) showed the route as south of the river. In fact, the reason for the frog and all the protest was the people were pissed off that a handful of developers had met in a smoke-filled room where they worked out a manipulation to change the alignment from the original south of the river route to one on 31st (later 32nd) Street. This was not in the best interest of the City or the highway traffic that was trying to get around our City, but the 31st (32nd) Street Route was one that would produce profits on investments by powerful interest (including those who publish this newspaper). They are the ones who changed the original rount to the route they wanted. This is a matter of public record. Check it out as I did several years ago. The original route was south of the river. If it weren't for the developer manipulations, the SLT would have been finished 20 years ago south of the river at a fraction of the present costs. These powerful development interests chose to change the original plan that was based on objective democratic actions to one that was more profitable. Moreover, they then blamed the delay caused by their manipulations on Haskell. They blamed Haskell for the problems they created by subverting democratic process, and they continue to act in this terrorist fashion.

justthefacts 9 years, 7 months ago

Give it up.This fight is decades old. And every step of the way, the bypass around the city has been fought by someone. For the last decade (12 years or more) it's been the environmentalists and/or Native Americans. They just do not want this road to go thru. Until/unless the vast majority of Lawrence residents REALLY want this project to get finished, the opponents have shown they are willing and able to litigate it to death. And trust me, no project is without imperfections of some kind, so there will always be some procedural or substantive reason to file a suit for those looking for a fight. If enough city and county residents wanted this road, it would have been built a long time ago. The fact that most people in the county are nuetral about it (at best) and those addicted to litigation are not able to come up with an alternative route, anywhere, says this road is a dead idea. Just bury it and hope it does not come back as a zombie.

sinkorswim 9 years, 7 months ago

Good Lord. Just build it and get it over with, so we can move on! Should've been built years ago.

RomanNose 9 years, 7 months ago

Why don't they build the traffic way on the other side of the Baker wetlands? That area will eventually become city anyways.

Beth Bird 9 years, 7 months ago

There is a lot of hate in the forum today.

Jeremy Lichtenauer 9 years, 7 months ago

Unfortunately the Prairie Band Potawatomi Nation is the only organization I can boycott or have a financial impact on. Their casino is going down the tubes and will slip even more when the casino at the Legends opens. Why don't the Kansas Indian casinos contribute to Kansas schools or infrastructure like those in Missouri do? Do they even pay taxes on their millions???Build the Legends casino!Build the bypass!

GOPConservative 9 years, 7 months ago

Those who vote for Jim Flory are working against those of us who want to see the SLT completed. At least, the way it is now, it will come down to deciding between the two alignments; i.e. either going back to the original south of the river alignment or going along with the developers who minipulated KDOT into approving the 32nd Street alignment. If you elect Jim Flory, you will be inviting the national media to make this out to be a another attack by Flory against Native Americans. When that happens in conjunction with the lawsuit, any possibility for either alignment being completed in our lifetimes will be overwhelmed by a controversy that will make the issue of the SLT secondary to a national portrayal of Lawrence as a community with a long history of racism toward Native Americans and HINU. Think about it before you vote for a man like Flory, who carries two decades of anti-Native American baggage. What we need from the side that supports the SLT is a spirit of compromise and peace, not irrational anger and a reputation for anti-Native American hatred and confrontation.

SMe 9 years, 7 months ago

kubacker you know full well who here is posting racist comments and it isn't the Native Americans.

Bhall1983 9 years, 7 months ago

Okay, it's time to say good-bye to the 32nd Street alignment. What Lawrence now needs is to continue K-10 south onto US-59 south of the Wakarusa and then exit at about County Road 458 and head east connecting to Noria Road. There could still be exits at E 1400 and 1500 Road and even though it may take longer to obtain the right of way from landowners, it can't possibly take as long as these frivolous lawsuits have taken plus maybe some money from the US-59 widening project could be used, it'd be a better bypass around the city as the city grows south. If they really want to "save" the wetlands, then fine.

yankeelady 9 years, 7 months ago

This has been dragging on for 15-20 yrs. It came up for a vote and was approved by the voters of Douglas County. The different routes have been explored ad nausem. Now we have another lawsuit on the horizon and still no road. I'd suggest voting on it but we already know how well that would work. Enough already---build the road.

Fred Whitehead Jr. 9 years, 7 months ago

"There is a lot of hate in the forum today." No. Happy, just a lot of disgusted, angry citizens that a simple bypass that is badly needed for the growth of this community has been delayed by stupid agendas of frogs, lies about imagined heritage, phony assertions of sacred ground, and a whole host of misrepresentations and downright lies. I think that is it pretty simple in a nutshell.. And yet the nuts keep on with their anti-whatever crusade to delay this badly needed road. I see no hatred here, just disgust, frustration and the realization that the idiots are winning for now.

fyrfighter1955 9 years, 7 months ago

Here we go again. There has not been any bull^(% lately about the road, so the morons have to bring it up again. Just build the road, stupid!!! I say file a lawsuit against them for costing the rest of us millions of dollars for holding up what was voted on and approved. Remember that? Seems like history. And there better not be 1 penny of my money used for any lawyers in this stupid thing, or there will be heck to pay. My bulldozer is warmed up and ready. Build the road!!

blakus 9 years, 7 months ago

Getting accross town 10 minutes faster is way more important to me than the environment or what Haskell students feel is right. I am a selfish capitalist American with no heart. My car and time is more important than anything. Why can't others be like me? I think we should convert dissenters to my religion. Freedom of speech is a fraud. Move forward and never look back.

50YearResident 9 years, 7 months ago

Why is it that the Haskell University recuits out of state students to fight the trafficway? They are not residents and will be gone after graduation. Maybe they get extra credit if they join the lawsuit........

shutnmdown 9 years, 7 months ago

Them natives can't have NOTHING... This does not have anything to do with being an out of state students or residents. $1 goes along way...if you know what I mean

Boston_Corbett 9 years, 7 months ago

"SLT opponents pledge to fight indefinitely"In other words, to Bozo and others, it doesn't matter what the will of the people is.

classclown 9 years, 7 months ago

Maybe they should avoid the wetlands. Build the thing right through haskell.

Phil Minkin 9 years, 7 months ago

kubacker says: Bob Eye, the attorney filing the latest lawsuit, is also a professer in the KU INS program.I looked at the website you included and didn't find his name listed. He has represented them and others opposing the trafficway. I assume you would like to go back to the "good old days" of Haskell Institute trying to strip away any shred of Native American culture and turn the students into "real Americans".

Sharon Aikins 9 years, 7 months ago

I notice no one commented on Mike Caron's comments. Personally, I felt those to be very threatening. If he and others like him feel that it is his way or nothing on any issue, no wonder nothing is solved. While it makes no sense to me to take the trafficway so far south, I find it hard to believe that in all the studies that have been done in all these years, that was never considered in any impact studies. I personally blame one attorney and a few activists for making this an issue that wasn't one when this was all intially voted upon. Lawrence, where the few deem it their responsibility to push their own agendas to the detriment of the many. Gas is cheap, let's build the trafficway in Ottawa, we could just drive south to I-35 and take it to KC. No cost to us, it's already done. We could put signs up all over, "Lawrence, Come Visit Our World Famous Wetlands. The most expensive wetlands in the world!"

jayhawklawrence 9 years, 7 months ago

What a shame that this con job has been allowed to continue for so long.I have long ago lost any respect for the Sierra Club or the Haskell Indian Nations University or the other groups involved in the continuing litigation (including judges and lawyers).I see only selfishness.

phenommenom 9 years, 7 months ago


Scott Drummond 9 years, 7 months ago

How likely is it that an Obama administration and an overwhelmingly Democratic Congress is going to continue to fund this monsterous plan? If (and that is a big if) the trafficway is to be completed, it will be completed south of the river & the sooner our elected officials recognized that fact, the better stewards of our taxes and environment they will be.

manus_flexibilis 9 years, 7 months ago

Flights are always delayed, you either put up with it and hang out at the terminal or decide to travel another day. You would be wasting your ticket and getting 20% returned, if the SOR route is complete you may get a greater percentage inturn. Yet we use the 80% to maintain a road that will need it continually from instability.XD40 "Sioux ME"

somebodynew 9 years, 7 months ago

GOP - I will disagree strongly on one point you made.The ORIGINAL alignment was the 32nd Street path. Then there came (invisible frogs) and Haskell moved their sweat lodge, then all sorts of other things. The first alignment as I remember was the 32nd St.Now I am not saying that is the best route since 20 years has past, but it seems to be that or nothing.

ASBESTOS 9 years, 7 months ago

"You'd have to attend a Palin rally to come close."That is really an objective response, NOT!

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 9 years, 7 months ago

"So why do they get to decide who can do what here? "They clearly don't. They got no say about anything in Lawrence.

ASBESTOS 9 years, 7 months ago

Bozo.... Klueless with a capital "K".

SMe 9 years, 7 months ago

Wow! What a bunch of racists!Yes. I did call you racists and I believe for good reason. You have said not one wit about why they are wrong only that they are wrong because they are Native Americans. Yes, I'd capitalize it when speaking of them - definitely not of you.Build it in the right place and that isn't 31st St.

Bruce Rist 9 years, 7 months ago

MerrillWasn't it you that said we should connect K-10 and I 70 on the east side of Lawrence instead of the proposed southern route?

ASBESTOS 9 years, 7 months ago

"Why is it that posters here have to continually make baseless assertions, even if they do put it in question form?"That just is obvious irony and denial! "etu, Bozo?"

littleone 9 years, 7 months ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

weareallmigratory 9 years, 7 months ago

KU backer, not all of us go to the INS program, some of us become lawyers, doctors, business people, etc...but, I am doing a story on the issue, would you be willing to go on camera and talk about your issue with Haskell? or anyone else for that matter?

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 9 years, 7 months ago

"Why is it that the Haskell University recuits out of state students to fight the trafficway?"Why is it that posters here have to continually make baseless assertions, even if they do put it in question form?

shorttrees 9 years, 7 months ago

Okay, so we have a low lying area that was continuously farmed in the past, but due to the growth of Lawrence and poor planning for runoff became a swamp. Not wetlands--SWAMP. It is manmade as it is! Then we have people objecting to the moving of the swamp/wetlands and creation of even more swampland (remember that next time you complain about mosquitoes) to harbor things that were NOT in that area 60 years ago. When we have the same setup in city limits it's called a drainage problem! Now that's ironic.First it was "no alignment works" then it was "only away from the wetlands" then it was "only if we get our way". C'mon people, the dadgum effing frogs don't care if they live there or a 1/4 mile or mile south, as long as it's wet and they can catch bugs! Get over it and build the thing!

somebodynew 9 years, 7 months ago

And money - don't forget the money the attorneys will make jayhawklawrence.

Potawatomi 9 years, 7 months ago

Chill out beosphincter. Maybe we should lock you up for being ignorant.

Frank Dorsey 9 years, 7 months ago

Why can't these people just get used to the fact that there is constantly going to be migration from one area of the globe to another. Native Americans were migratory. They originally came from Russia and Asia, and were constantly moving around North America. So why do they get to decide who can do what here? This doesn't make any sense, considering history of mankind. So, let's abolish all borders! Welcome Mexicans! C'mon in, Canadians! Make yourselves at home, Freedonians!

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 9 years, 7 months ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

BigPrune 9 years, 7 months ago

Why doesn't the City do what they always do to people who publicly complain? They don't get mad, they get even. Haskell is lucky to be a college for Native Americans. If it was a small business that complained, the City would be trying to force them out of business.

Scott Drummond 9 years, 7 months ago

"They are NOT winning, just delaying." Delaying and preventing destruction of the Wetlands, of course, is winning. How sad to see once again the hate and racism that surfaces amongst the crowd that must have a road to shave 10 minutes off their commute. A liitle self examination seems in order. You really are miserable humans.

ChicagoAlum 9 years, 7 months ago

Forget Haskell.. K-10 needs to be safer.. Just stop the loss of life.. The time is now. If the past few weeks have not shown anything, let them show that something needs to be done. Whether it is widening K-10 or not, please slow down and think about what you have to lose. I hate reading about people dying. I hear about it enough here in Chicago. God bless you all and I hope this is all sorted out without years of legislature. PLEASE SLOW DOWN on K-10!

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 9 years, 7 months ago

kubacker posts a racist screed, and my post gets removed for calling him on it. Go figure.

hatealluwant 9 years, 7 months ago

Wow there is a lot of haters out in this world no wonder Lawrence is one of the most racist towns in america. A lot of you should really do some research because you really sound stupid.

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