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Archive for Thursday, October 9, 2008

Fans flock to Nader rally

Presidential candidate attacks bailout bill, 2-party system

Kansas University junior Lauren Keith, center, hoists a Nader and Gonzalez '08 sign as independent presidential candidate Ralph Nader takes the stage for a rally Thursday at Abe & Jake's Landing, 8 E. Sixth St.. Nader spoke with contempt for Sens. John McCain and Barack Obama and the recent bailout. Left of Keith is Wichita resident Elijah Moore, and to the right are KU juniors Bryan Dykman, Westwood, and senior Nick Mangiaracina, Lenexa.

Kansas University junior Lauren Keith, center, hoists a Nader and Gonzalez '08 sign as independent presidential candidate Ralph Nader takes the stage for a rally Thursday at Abe & Jake's Landing, 8 E. Sixth St.. Nader spoke with contempt for Sens. John McCain and Barack Obama and the recent bailout. Left of Keith is Wichita resident Elijah Moore, and to the right are KU juniors Bryan Dykman, Westwood, and senior Nick Mangiaracina, Lenexa.

October 9, 2008

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Fans flock to Nader rally

An independent presidential candidate slams congress and the Bush administration after last week's $700 billion economic bailout bill. Enlarge video

Ralph Nader speaks to about 400 people who attended Thursday's rally.

Ralph Nader speaks to about 400 people who attended Thursday's rally.

On the street

Do you think the presidential debates should be open to third-party candidates?

I believe so. It would give people access to other opinions and candidates, especially if they’re not agreeing with either party right now. We don’t often get a chance to hear their views.

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Election 2008

In-depth coverage of the candidates and the issues, all leading up to the Aug. 5 primary and the Nov. 4 general election.

Independent presidential candidate Ralph Nader in Lawrence called Congress "cowardly" Thursday for passing last week's $700 billion financial bailout bill.

"Wall Street stuffed Washington into the barrel and rolled it," he said during a speech at Abe & Jake's Landing, 8 E. Sixth St.

The 74-year-old longtime consumer advocate and frequent presidential candidate had about 400 people cheering at times, as he said Congress missed the boat on not going after "Wall Street crooks." He also said the international market has already rejected the bailout as ineffective.

"What it left out were all the important safeguards for investors, workers and institutions to protect them from the fallout of the greatest speculative binge in American history," Nader told reporters.

He said the bailout bill should have included more regulation, an emphasis on going after corporate crime, protection for homeowners and a small tax on certain trades.

"Congress could have made the speculators pay for their own bailout," Nader said.

With his running mate Matt Gonzalez, a prominent San Francisco political activist, Nader's campaign will visit all 50 states. They are on the ballot in 45, including Kansas.

Nader criticized the two-party system as broken and said voters would choose between the "lesser of two evils." He also slammed the organization of presidential debates, from which he has been excluded.

Mainstream party candidates Barack Obama and John McCain have not had to answer tough questions about issues the mainstream media and two-party system does not want to address, Nader said.

"What's lost is peace advocacy. What's lost is consumer protection, worker rights and taxpayers' rights," he said.

Saying his campaign wanted to reach out to those feeling disenfranchised by American politics, Nader also stumped for a living wage, more funding for public works and government financing of health care.

Some in the audience said it was refreshing to hear a presidential candidate criticize the bailout and speak at length about health care issues.

"I've been watching the presidential debates, and I've heard more honest discussion about the issues in the past half hour," said Kansas University senior Ben Barthell, of Lawrence.

Comments

BigPrune 6 years, 2 months ago

I saw a college aged kid pull into the parking lot driving an old Corvair with a Nader bumper sticker! Oh, the humanity of it all!

Chengdu808 6 years, 2 months ago

Corporate America has been looking for dirt on Ralph Nader for 47 years and has never found one single weakness/fault to exploit. He has been excluded from mainstream TV by NBC, ABC, and CBS. If you have a negative view of him you have been successfully processed by the corporate powers.

Trobs 6 years, 2 months ago

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/pages/results/states/KS/P/00/6 votes for Kansas. If you split them proportionally that 4-2 repub/demo. Still not worth the effort of the candidates to come to the Midwest when they can do the same thing in California and pick up 20-30

Chengdu808 6 years, 2 months ago

F.Y.I. - Ralph Nader/Matt Gonzalez are running as independents. The Green Party ticket is Cynthia McKinney/Rosa Clemente.

kugrad 6 years, 2 months ago

While I completely understand how one could feel that both major parties have irreperable problems, that they are disenfranchised from real political influence, and that voting is more of a symbolic act than a meaningful political act under the current two-party system, I strongly believe that Nader is not the person to rallly behind as an alternative. In my opinion as a person who grew up admiring Nader in the 60's, Nader is best viewed as a single issue candidate. The issue? Promoting Ralph Nader. He long ago put aside any meaningful participation in the effort to reform our nation and began to focus on self-promotion. Being Ralph Nader is fairly lucrative and beats actual work. His meglomania is annoying at best. True, he still produces the occasional thoughtful article, but I'm sure he doesn't contribute these for free for the good of the progressive movement. I know I sound cynical, but Nader stopped impressing me decades ago. Don't waste your vote on Ralph Nader. The Supreme Court is in play. Sure, he has every right to participate, but his motivations for doing so have as much to do with his pocketbook as anything else. He doesn't bother to try to raise money to campaign early on, he waits until the Democratic debates start, complains that he isn't included even though he claims he is not running as a Democrat, then tries for a few paid TV appearances so he can fuss about it. Then he does his ususal speech for a fee circuit, then, very late in the race, goes around to bask in the glow of adoring fans and raise some cash, sell some books, and so on. His audience is invariably young people who know only a bit of his history, but feel left out of the current crummy system. He calls them to vote for him because he is disenfranchised, yet he made no actual effort to be included in the process this election cycle. He has added NOTHING to the discussion of issues. He is just making sure he can make a living until the next election cycle. He is a self promoter who puts Al Sharpton to shame. Don't be a fool who believes there is no difference between the parties. If you learned nothing from the last 8 years, you should have learned how disastrous it can be to let extremists on the supreme court. Don't be fooled by Ralph Nader.

The_Bends 6 years, 2 months ago

While I agree that the 2 Party system is broken, voting for Nader is not the solution. Rather, the most practical, expedient solution is for states to allot their electoral votes proportionally (like Nebraska).

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 6 years, 2 months ago

Nader isn't immune from criticism. Instead of donating 80% of all of his earnings to the causes he supports and the groups he's founded, perhaps he should have donated 99%, instead.And maybe he should have returned those donations from Republican activists-- instead, he used the money to fight the numerous lawsuits from the Democratic Party, in state after state, seeking to keep him off the ballot."As for your question about Nader's positions not being influenced by campaign contributions, as opposed to Obama (and I haven't seen any evidence of that with him to date, but I'll admit that some of his positions have shifted for what appear to be political reasons- namely, appealing to the middle)"Aren't you ignoring his vote and his lobbying for the Wall Street bailout? He is among the largest recipients of their campaign contributions.

cthulhu_4_president 6 years, 2 months ago

^^^ Why vote for the lesser evil? (vote Elder party, go Cthulhu!!)

tvc 6 years, 2 months ago

Marion, If you're not mad...you're not listening!

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 6 years, 2 months ago

OK, kugrad, maybe ad hominem is the wrong term. How about just plain baseless character assassination?Does Nader have an ego? Sure, we each and every one of us have one. But despite your assertions to the contrary, he's done more than almost any single living American to force fundamental changes in the way we do things. He's been the driving force in establishing organizations that to this day are indispensable in creating and maintaining focus on our real problems and finding real solutions to those problems.The presidential and vice-presidential debates to date, as usual, have been a joke because of their vacuousness. The major problems confronting us are glossed over, if they are mentioned at all, and the discussions revolve around some vague notion of "change," even though we know what we'll get from either candidate will be mostly some slightly repackaged version of the status quo.Sure, Obama will be marginally, but significantly, better than McCain. But we need all the third-party candidates to remind us all that our political system is failing us, and as we approach complete economic and climatic castrophe, our government and the corporations that largely control it are incapable of preventing what could be the nearly complete collapse of human civilization. If I lived in Missouri, I would certainly vote for Obama, because unlike McCain, he offers some hope of turning things around, even though his current campaign and voting record don't indicate that. But unless it appears that Obama has a good chance of winning here in Kansas, I'll vote for Nader just in the hope that it helps keep our eyes on real prize.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 6 years, 2 months ago

Same old baseless assertions, and a repeat of the incredible belief that Nader personally cast several million votes over the last few elections. Would were that it were true-- we really will need Superman as president come next January.

feeble 6 years, 2 months ago

I'm echoing an earlier comment, I think we would be better served with a system that awards electoral votes proportionally, rather than the current, winner take all rules, if only because it forces candidates to actually campaign in the state. That or some kind of range voting plan.

Marty_McFly 6 years, 2 months ago

I'm voting for Ross Perot...or Ronald Reagan

Trobs 6 years, 2 months ago

Like in 04 when Kerry's train rolled through town and didn't even bother to stop? That was pretty funny.

thoughtpolice 6 years, 2 months ago

Obama has no more experience to be president than I do. His "job" has been to run for President. He's just an empty suit who talks pretty. My sincere hope is that all the college kids who think that he's the cat's meow forget to vote like they did in 2000 and 2004.McCain isn't much better. In 30 years of Congress he hasn't changed anything. I might have voted for him in 2000 when he opposed Bush (and it would have been my first time voting for a Republican for president). Since that time he hasn't done anything to show me he is anything different than that walking train wreck, George W. Bush.The corporate bailout was the last straw for me. Taxpayers are getting screwed by the very people who claim to look out for their interests. Give me a break! AIG goes and holds a $400k bash after getting bailout money and then ask the government for more...and they get it! When this is over, a handful of banks will hold the majority of our deposits and will still be "too big to fail". So what will have changed after we get out of this mess? Why were we able to find $770 billion dollars for these guys so quickly but we have known that social security is underfunded for 25 years and can't fix it because we don't have the money. Could it be because Wall Street tycoons don't give a rip about social security?Both sides receive so much money from these guys that they aren't going to do anything that would offend their supporters on Wall Street. Some call it a campaign contribution. I call it prostitution....Nope, I'm wrong. Wall Street walked away with BOTH the money and the good time.Isn't it truly sad that Sarah Palin is the only one of the four principal candidates with experience running anything, and she's less qualified to be president than Obama if that were even possible. God help us if McCain dies of old age (if he hasn't already) and she becomes president. If this election wasn't real, I would swear that it was the plot of a bad political novel.Kansas has a tradition going back to the 19th century of bucking the entrenched establishment. To quote a member of the populist movement of the 1890s, we need to raise less corn and more hell. Maybe voting for a third party is a start. The Repubs and Dems can both go to hell as far as I'm concerned. They certainly aren't providing me with any encouragement that they know how to lead this country out of the mess it is in. Don't even TRY to reason with me on this...I'm just too angry right now!

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 6 years, 2 months ago

"Higher population centers would get mass attention while those of us in the boonies are ignored."Sounds pretty much like what we have now. MIght as well have a system that makes sense, rather than the absurdity of the electoral college.

meggers 6 years, 2 months ago

Nader lost me when he accepted donations from republican activists in 2004. It's clear the the republicans were merely trying to chip away at Kerry's support. I suspect that Nader's motives were on a more personal level- to stoke his own ego.I will say that Nader now seems healthier and more articulate than he did in 2004. I don't know if he was experiencing health problems then or what, but he didn't look well and his speeches were full of meandering incoherencies that I doubt even he understood. I've seen him in a couple of interviews this time around and he definitely seems much more lucid.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 6 years, 2 months ago

"Nader is still alive?"And quite well-- nothing like the increasingly doddering McCain, who is two years his junior.

kugrad 6 years, 2 months ago

kmat, I agree with you. If Nader worked for the progressive movement in a meaningful way between elections, my opinion woulc change. Nader is all about Nader.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 6 years, 2 months ago

kugrad-- Interesting that you can excuse Obama (and any other Democrat) for moving to the right as the campaign has progressed, because "that's what a candidate has to do" in order to get elected. But Nader is some sort of egomaniac because he is engaged in "self-promotion" while running for president-- can you name anyone who has ever run for president who did so without engaging in some form of self-promotion?And this ignores the simple fact that Nader's campaigns, unlike any run by a Democrat this year, with the exception of Kucinich, focuses almost exclusively on real issues and real solutions, not the grandiose fluff and sloganeering that Obama usually gives us.

LiberalDude 6 years, 2 months ago

Wow, I didn't realize that Nader is 74. He's even older than McSame!

Trobs 6 years, 2 months ago

I'm tempted to run for the state legislature. Unfortunately I am not sure I can handle dealing with that much BS on a daily basis

zettapixel 6 years, 2 months ago

Went to a Nader event a few years ago. I was not impressed.

seattlehawk_78 6 years, 2 months ago

I like Nader and I think his voice should be heard on a national stage. But, I think he is disingenuous when he is running for president and he has to bear some responsibility for the military fiasco and fiscal incompetence of the Bush administration since he helped put him in the white house. Why doesn't he run for congress instead of running for an office he has zero chance of winning.

kugrad 6 years, 2 months ago

Bozo, I don't disagree with many of the ideas you are saying, but my attacks are not baseless. Nader has been promoting himself for decades. The essential character of his work has changed. Everyone has an ego, his, in my judgement, appears to be huge and the driving force in his work. That is my opinion, not a fact, so obviously I could be wrong, ill-informed, or both. But, it is not baseless. It is my honest assessment of the man based on what I have seen, heard and read over the last 3 decades.

tvc 6 years, 2 months ago

"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win."

S0uPnAzi 6 years, 2 months ago

Go ahead and vote for Ralph... :)McCain needs the help!!

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 6 years, 2 months ago

Quote from Nader last night"We teach people to believe, not to think."

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 6 years, 2 months ago

"Stop wasting your votes on somebody you know will not win, and at least give a real chance to somebody who does not think war is the answer to everything."Correct-- Obama can't win in Kansas, so no reason to waste your vote on him. Vote Nader.

Trobs 6 years, 2 months ago

When did I say I was for the status quo? A proportional system would not work. It would not change how they campaign now. 6 votes compared to 55 in California or 31 in New York is not worth the time of the candidates. Even if they are earn 15% of the vote, they get 6 votes. I believe the standard voter is apathetic and simply votes along party lines. Unlike most of the commenters here who bother to research the candidates, most voters don't care. They see a D or R in front of the name and check that box. I do not think voter turnout would be any higher, and if it was, not much would change. A popular vote would work better to a degree. The independent voters and third party voters would be given a greater voice in the elections. The "missing" republicans in New York and California as well as the "missing" democrats in the Midwest would start to matter. Though to what degree is up in the air. It would still put much more focus on the major population centers and the independent voters there.

tvc 6 years, 2 months ago

2004 Ralph Nader votes 465,650 (0.38%)Really, you are going to blame Nader?

Ragingbear 6 years, 2 months ago

So we now know who to blame when the presidency is stolen by a narrow margin. We need a substantial voter turnout to counteract the Diebold theft of votes people. Stop wasting your votes on somebody you know will not win, and at least give a real chance to somebody who does not think war is the answer to everything.

Trobs 6 years, 2 months ago

Obama is no different from McCain. Kickbacks, "Donations, whatever you wanna call em, they are both loaded with em. Think back to 2000 McCain, vastly different from 2008 McCain. Know why? Money. Same with Obama.

meggers 6 years, 2 months ago

tvc,It was a vote I strongly disagree with, but looking at it from purely a political perspective, a "no" vote would have resulted in even more frothy claims that he is somehow "weak on terror". Obama DID vote for the amendment stripping the immunity provisions, but I agree with you and a lot of others that he should have stuck to his guns when that didn't pass. Still, as much as he might like to change the rules of the game, he's stuck with the way our politics are played now.So no defense from me, except to say that until people stop voting based on emotion, rather than reason, polticians will continue to be at the mercy of people that exploit fear in exchange for votes.

stuckinthemiddle 6 years, 2 months ago

I believe most polls are showing that if "3rd party candidates" are added in that Obama's lead actually increases in most states...lot's of conservatives still not sold on McCain and will end up voting for Bob Barr...

tvc 6 years, 2 months ago

I'm glad Obama and McCain make sure they only take "good" money. Do you suggest Nader have a test before people donate to check their motive?

monkeyspunk 6 years, 2 months ago

"6 votes for Kansas. If you split them proportionally that 4-2 repub/demo. Still not worth the effort of the candidates to come to the Midwest when they can do the same thing in California and pick up 20-30"Right now they only campaign in battleground states anyway. Millions of Republicans in New York and California are basically ignored. Hundreds of thousands of Democrats in the midwest are also ignored. Not to mention in various other states, especially the South. That would end. Voter turnout would increase, for both parties. And perhaps with increased participation across the board, more moderate voters from each party would emerge, and perhaps we could see the creation of a viable third party, hopefully in the center.You support the status quo why Trobs? You fail again to point out why it is better than a proportional system. Please try, I have yet to hear any argument that even remotely justifies the current system.

Bob Forer 6 years, 2 months ago

Thoughtpolice wrote: "I'll be voting for Ralph:again. The choices offered by the major parties are an empty suit and a so-called "maverick" who has been in Congress for thirty years. Both sides are in bed with Wall Street. The two party system is broken and hasn't offered a new idea since 1932. I'm done with both of them. Some might say I am throwing away my vote, but Kansas is going to support the Republicans regardless of how I vote. There's no way in hell I'll vote for either of the buffoons running. Go Ralph!"I almost agree with you, but I don't believe Baruch O'Bama is a buffon. He's just guilty of some major triangulation since he first arrived on the scene, which I think proves this point: Progressives cannot elect a President without sacrificing some major principles. Although our votes in Kansas won't make a difference, I think I am still leaning for Obama over Nader. My folks spent too many years in the civil rights movement not to.

monkeyspunk 6 years, 2 months ago

Trobs, no candidate really cares about states that they already have sewn up, that is the problem with the "winner take all system".Under a proportional system, candidates would have to rally for every single vote they could get, even in states that they have safe majority. It's not like it is hard, divide the population by the number of delegates, call it X. For every X votes a candidate receives, they get one electoral vote from that state. If there are any votes left over after the calculation, those votes go to the winner of the popular vote in that state. California and New York wouldn't go completely to the Democrats, and the Democrats in the Midwestern states would finally have their votes count for something. The fact that a system is in place where a person can win the popular vote and still lose the election should have caused Americans to scrap it a long time ago. It is a testament to American apathy.

akuna 6 years, 2 months ago

Personally, I am torn between voting for Obama, Nader, or Paul - though I don't know if Ron Paul is on the ballot in Kansas. I am a registered Republican but have lost faith in the Republican party. They have lost their principles and ideals even more then the Democrats have, and the Dems have lost theirs is a big way.McCain is a shameful man that will hopefully fade away sooner than later. This is a good article on the life of McCain, http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/23316912/makebelieve_maverick/print . He is a truly disgraceful American.Our country needs a serious shift in direction. Unfortunately no third party candidate will ever be elected to the Office of the President. But they can, will, and have affected the course of American politics. It takes lots time and effort for those changes to come about, unlike the eight years it took Bush and the modern congress to destroy most things sacred in our country. This is why I am torn. Do I want to throw my lot with a consumer advocate that has brought about lots of good changes to the regulation of bad business practices? Do I want to throw my lot with a true free markter that would reduce the size of government to cut the bloat from our bueracracy? Or do I want to throw my lot with a person that is likely to be elected and represent a visible shift in the perception of America? Tough decision. Not one that I will make lightly based on my passed leanings.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 6 years, 2 months ago

"Don't be fooled by Ralph Nader."Don't be fooled by ad hominem attacks by someone who obviously would prefer to be screwed by a Democrat rather than be screwed by a Republican.

tvc 6 years, 2 months ago

Nader visits all states red and blue.

tvc 6 years, 2 months ago

http://www.nader.org/index.php?/archive --do any of these work for you kmat?So Kerry and Gore don't have to earn our votes?? We have to just give them up to the least worst. You have your vote and I have mine. I blame Kerry and Gore for stealing votes from Nader.

budwhysir 6 years, 2 months ago

hasnt this guy had enough? he has been on the ballot since I was in diapers, and I just got done shooting down a 12 pack. (this would show you what my youngest age could be) Anyhow, I am going with a good write in this year. Guy by the name of Bud, middle name is why and the last name is sir. You should check out his qualifications. He has an overwhelming effect on most of the voting community.

Newell_Post 6 years, 2 months ago

LOL. Ralph Nader! Our first gay, arabic-speaking president!

Trobs 6 years, 2 months ago

Bozo - Most of the time I don't agree with you but that made me laugh. I nearly got punched by an Obama supporter the other day for daring to suggest he can't win Kansas. Drink the Kool-aid kids, plenty for all!

tvc 6 years, 2 months ago

bozo on the bus, you are about to hit 10,000 posts!

kugrad 6 years, 2 months ago

Bozo, Now you are just putting words in my mouth. I didn't speak particularly of Democratic candidates. I also didn't explicitly state why I think Nader is an egomaniac. It isn't because he self-promotes while running for president. In my opinion, he self promotes all the time, and just uses the election cycle to ramp it up and rake in some more cash. I don't disagree that Nader has more substance - unfortunately he can do that since he isn't trying to win. I truly admire guys like Dennis K. and the late Paul Whitestone who can discuss our real issues AND get elected (albiet not to the presidency). I would argue that it is not the two party system which causes this horrible circumstance, but the media and, frankly, the ignorance of American voters. Campaigns have sunk to our current lows because they CAN! People actually buy this crap. The media offers no alternatives. So, while I agree in many ways with your sentiments and what you are saying, please don't put words into my mouth.I still think Nader is a self-promotion specialist who makes his living as a professional politician and who isn't what he used to be. He is no Chomsky, who doesn't furiously brand his name. I just don't like Nader. I used to, but he lost my respect over the years.

melissabonnette 6 years, 2 months ago

No thanks on Obama! You can keep the chump change! and thanks to politicians like McCain who has had 30 years to actually make a change and has not -That chump change won't buy a gallon of gas today. I will vote for someone who will always vote for the working class of America. I will vote for someone that will not turn his back on The People even though the People have turned their backs on him! I am voting for Ralph Nader and Matt Gonzalez in 2008 and I am proud of it. Because for every 1 thing you have on Nader I can name 20 things on Obama and McCain.www.votenader.org

thoughtpolice 6 years, 2 months ago

I'll be voting for Ralph...again. The choices offered by the major parties are an empty suit and a so-called "maverick" who has been in Congress for thirty years. Both sides are in bed with Wall Street. The two party system is broken and hasn't offered a new idea since 1932. I'm done with both of them. Some might say I am throwing away my vote, but Kansas is going to support the Republicans regardless of how I vote. There's no way in hell I'll vote for either of the buffoons running. Go Ralph!

stuckinthemiddle 6 years, 2 months ago

~chuckle~b3 - you remind me of Eric Cartman...

kugrad 6 years, 2 months ago

Bozo, my remarks are not ad hominem because I am not disagreeing with Nader on the issues. I am saying that he is not actually promoting those issues, but promoting himself. Ultimately, the winner will be either a democrat or a republican, not Ralph Nader. The outcome makes a great deal of difference to the very issues Nader has spent years supporting, so it makes more sense to vote for Obama to move the progressive agenda forward than to vote for McCain or Nader. This is true even though Obama's progressivism leaves much to be desired (although we really don't know how progressive he will or won't be until and unless he is actually elected, as NO politician at the presidential level gets elected saying what they will actually do). Nader is full of himself and enjoys his spoiler role almost as much as he enjoys getting paid to deny it. Nader is a brand and I'm not buying it.

mwwkw 6 years, 2 months ago

I think if people really want change, voting for a presidential ticket like Nader isn't really going to change anything because it leaves the entire Senate and House of Reps within the two-party entrenched system. Wouldn't it be better to start electing non-Dems and non-Repubs to local and county and state positions to start building from the ground up rather than harboring the rather unrealistic (though perfectly respectable and desirable) position that a Nader White House is suddenly going to change the world? Grassroots! Not Treetop!

tvc 6 years, 2 months ago

Meggers, that is because he no longer has to worry about your vote. Most Democrats are not going to vote for McCain, so now that he has the nomination he does not have to be too concerned about his base. I am sending the message that if we nominate you as our candidate, you must stay our candidate.

freestatehawk 6 years, 2 months ago

The only truthful statement to ever come out of Nader's mouth is that there isn't any real difference between the Republican and Democrat parties. Without a "none of the above" option on the ballot, you're voting for the lesser of two evils. Voting for one to keep the lesser out of office is understandable, but if you're truly enthusiastic about either candidate, then, well, I hope you're voting for the first time and haven't yet learned any better...........

meggers 6 years, 2 months ago

tvc,Nah, I don't blame Nader for the end result, just his lack of regard for the end result. I should have said 'worked to facilitate the reelection...' or something similar. In other words, he was willing to throw all of us under the bus for his own self-promotion and he used the republican party to do so. Maybe I wouldn't have been so ticked off if it had been anyone other than Nader, but there was a time when I had more respect for him as a man of conviction and integrity than your average politician. Obviously, I no longer feel that way.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 6 years, 2 months ago

"Wouldn't it be better to start electing non-Dems and non-Repubs to local and county and state positions to start building from the ground up rather than harboring the rather unrealistic (though perfectly respectable and desirable) position that a Nader White House is suddenly going to change the world?"Nader made precisely this point last night, and had representatives from several other campaigns, presidential and otherwise, at the rally. The head of the KU Students for Ron Paul was the first speaker. So voting for Nader, or any other third-party candidate, does not exclude any other work in the political arena that anyone may care to take part in, including work on local elections.

Confrontation 6 years, 2 months ago

I figured that Tom would at least be a little supportive, considering that Nader is white.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 6 years, 2 months ago

A pertinent quote from Noam Chomsky--http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2008/1010/1223560345968.html"The United States effectively has a one-party system, the business party, with two factions, Republicans and Democrats. There are differences between them. In his study Unequal Democracy: The Political Economy of the New Gilded Age, Larry Bartels shows that during the past six decades "real incomes of middle-class families have grown twice as fast under Democrats as they have under Republicans, while the real incomes of working-poor families have grown six times as fast under Democrats as they have under Republicans".Differences can be detected in the current election as well. Voters should consider them, but without illusions about the political parties, and with the recognition that consistently over the centuries, progressive legislation and social welfare have been won by popular struggles, not gifts from above.Those struggles follow a cycle of success and setback. They must be waged every day, not just once every four years, always with the goal of creating a genuinely responsive democratic society, from the voting booth to the workplace."

feeble 6 years, 2 months ago

On splitting up the electorate vote by district, I think the model adopted by Nebraska and Maine is a good compromise with a pure popular vote.In the Congressional District Method the Electoral votes are distributed based on the popular vote winner of each of the state's individual Congressional districts, with the statewide popular vote winner receiving two additional electoral votes.

tvc 6 years, 2 months ago

Nader does not steal votes from the democrats! I am giving Nader my vote the same way you are giving your candidate your vote. I feel in Kansas if I vote for Obama, I would be throwing my vote away. He has little chance of winning Kansas, and it would tell the democrats that I am okay with what they have done. I am not okay with the bailout, nuclear energy, FISA, and offshore drilling, so Obama will not get my support by default!"It's better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it."

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 6 years, 2 months ago

pywacket-- I can understand your being angry over being repeatedly being betrayed by the Democrats you elect, but your hysterical scapegoating of Nader for telling it like it is, year after year, isn't going to make you any less angry when Obama sells you out, again.

meggers 6 years, 2 months ago

bozo,There's a difference between accepting donations from individuals and accepting them as part of a coordinated effort to throw an election, which is what occurred in 2004. This article sums it up pretty well:http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0702-10.htmWith that said, I'm not one of those folks who blame Nader for the 2000 Florida debacle. While it's true that Gore would have won handily had Nader not been on the ballot, that's certainly no way to look at a democratic election process. It could also be said that Gore would have won by a wider margin had he ran a better campaign. As for your question about Nader's positions not being influenced by campaign contributions, as opposed to Obama (and I haven't seen any evidence of that with him to date, but I'll admit that some of his positions have shifted for what appear to be political reasons- namely, appealing to the middle), I think you're comparing apples to oranges. Nader does not have to be accountable to a constituency and he is not in a position to cast a vote on anything related to policy. It's easy to armchair quarterback when you yourself haven't had to face tough, controversial decisions that could cost you re-election.I think Nader has some excellent viewpoints and I'm glad his voice is out there, but I think 2004 showed us that he isn't immune from allowing his own hubris to trump the best interests of the very citizens he has such a strong history of advocating for.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 6 years, 2 months ago

"Wow, I didn't realize that Nader is 74. He's even older than McSame!"But he shows absolutely no signs of senility-- listen to him speak, and you can understand why no one wants to debate him-- he'd shred them and the fraud they attempt to perpetrate on the American people."Support for Nader in 2000 and 2004 threw both elections to Bush. Great work."Yea, it hasn't absolutely nothing to do with the basic corruption of the Democratic Party, does it?

domino 6 years, 2 months ago

I recently heard someone say, "Why do we only have 2 choices for President but 50 for Miss America?"

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 6 years, 2 months ago

Trobs-- the vast majority of the voters in Kansas live in the Topeka-Lawrence-KC corridor, or in the Wichita area. Get rid of the winner take all system, and candidates would visit each area, every election year.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 6 years, 2 months ago

"Like in 04 when Kerry's train rolled through town and didn't even bother to stop?"If the electoral college didn't make it such a waste of time, he likely would have stopped. Nader got a lot of votes in Lawrence that Kerry might have gotten if not for the electoral college.

kmat 6 years, 2 months ago

tvc - your numbers don't show what Nader really did. Yes nationally it was a tiny fraction of votes, but in close states he blew it and threw the election to Bush. Remember, electoral college?!I could respect Nader if he actually fought for change the years in between elections. He only pops out of his hole at election time. How can you support someone that doesn't do anything in between elections to change our current political system? If he wants to be taken seriously as a candidate and political reformer, he needs to do something besides throw his hat in the ring every four years.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 6 years, 2 months ago

"I suspect that Nader's motives were on a more personal level- to stoke his own ego."I hear his mother wore army boots, too.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 6 years, 2 months ago

"Nader lost me when he accepted donations from republican activists in 2004. "Just curious-- has Obama refused all donations from anyone who has ever donated to a Republican campaign?Also, have you ever seen any indication that Nader's position on any issue has been affected by campaign contributions from people seeking his support on narrow special interests? The answer, of course, is no, which can't be said for Obama or any other Democratic (or Republican) nominee in living memory.

meggers 6 years, 2 months ago

bozo,I believe his vote was based on a very real concern for economic collapse. I don't like the bailout one bit, but I do believe that doing nothing would have been even worse, as evidenced by Japan's economic crash in the early 90's. By the time the Japanese government finally intervened in the markets, it was too late and the country was thrust into a decade-long recession. I'm not all that optimistic about the success of the bailout package, but I think that given the state of the markets, 'success' will actually need to be framed in terms of a very bad economic situation, as opposed to a horrific situation with far-reaching consequences. All of that still doesn't change the fact that Nader is not in a position to vote on policy and therefore, has the luxury of playing armchair quarterback.I certainly respect your decision to vote for Nader, as he has done many honorable things in his life. I'd also like to see more viable third-party and fourth-party candidates. I'm just looking at the situation as it stood in 2004 and as it stands now. Nader lost me when he aligned with the thinly-veiled motives of the republican party at a time that was, at that point, the most important election of my lifetime. Looking back, the stuff going on then pales in comparisan to the situation today. Now, it's really THE most important election of my lifetime and I'm not about to give my vote to someone that, in my view, helped to facilitate the reelection of Bush.

Trobs 6 years, 2 months ago

I agree feeble, but the midwest by far would be ignored. California and New York. Two massive democrat states suddenly are given out in proportion. That's a lot of electoral votes that the republicans can suddenly win. Solid repub states like Kansas, Nebraska, Montana are still ignored. Our measly 6 votes is nothing compared to Cali's 55 or New York's 31. A popular vote would cause the same issue. Higher population centers would get mass attention while those of us in the boonies are ignored.

tvc 6 years, 2 months ago

I personally enjoy the humility of McCain and Obama. McCain puts country first and Obama uses great we statements ("yes, we can"). The millions and millions they are receiving is not for self promotion, but for the good of the country. Nader has the right to run:and you have the right to vote or not vote for him. I have the right to run:and you have the right to vote or not vote for me. Nader is not stealing my vote:I would not vote for Obama. I would not, could not, vote for Obama.Meggers, tell me about FISA then. Why did Obama say that he would filibuster anything that gave immunity and then pass it?

jayhawklawrence 6 years, 2 months ago

Nader's rhetoric is one of those songs that sound good the first time you hear it, but after over 30 years of listening to his rants, I have come to realize that he is just about as useless as a bent nail if you are trying to accomplish anything useful.Some people just want to stir things up and sound important.Sorry, Ralph, you can't fool me anymore.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 6 years, 2 months ago

"Ultimately, the winner will be either a democrat or a republican, not Ralph Nader. The outcome makes a great deal of difference to the very issues Nader has spent years supporting, so it makes more sense to vote for Obama to move the progressive agenda forward than to vote for McCain or Nader."Did I put these words in your mouth, kugrad?

greenpartyfan 6 years, 2 months ago

I certainly respect your decision to vote for Nader, as he has done many honorable things in his life. -----------------------------------------------------------------------The people who respect our decision to vote ..will now go on to talk only of the situation as far back as 2004 ..---------------------------------------------------------I'd also like to see more viable third-party and fourth-party candidates. I'm just looking at the situation as it stood in 2004 and as it stands now. ---------------------------------------------------------The timeline they're only covering: 2004 - 2008--------------------------------------------------------Nader lost me when he aligned with the thinly-veiled motives of the republican party at a time that was, at that point, the most important election of my lifetime.--------------------------------------------------------------------It was the most important election of your lifetime ..Well this is the most important election of ours.------------------------------------------------------------------ Looking back, the stuff going on then pales in comparisan to the situation today. Now, it's really THE most important election of my lifetime and I'm not about to give my vote to someone that, in my view, helped to facilitate the reelection of Bush.

greenpartyfan 6 years, 2 months ago

I almost agree with you, but I don't believe Baruch O'Bama is a buffon. He's just guilty of some major triangulation since he first arrived on the scene, which I think proves this point: Progressives cannot elect a President without sacrificing some major principles. Although our votes in Kansas won't make a difference, I think I am still leaning for Obama over Nader. My folks spent too many years in the civil rights movement not to.-------------------------------------------------------------- ....I don't think Obama just arrived on the scene from now ..What Was he doing as Senator when Bush was in charge? ..First -- what are the principles that we sacrifice ..For McCain it's:78 year old women: Why can't american's ask for sacrifices other than young women and men having to go out to war just to die somewhere?McCain: The sacrifice I'm gonna ask from you is to ..cut...spending. ..on ..something.How about he say: Cut voting on Obama? Isn't that his ulterior motive or something?

greenpartyfan 6 years, 2 months ago

tvc - your numbers don't show what Nader really did. Yes nationally it was a tiny fraction of votes, but in close states he blew it and threw the election to Bush. Remember, electoral college?!--------------------------------------------------------------------You know what ..Nader may have been a baseball fan ..But he never translated scoring points into the word: Numbers and his loss as merely just: Blowing it. He didn't throw the election to Bush ..what election was he gonna throw? ...And the Electoral college ... ? Apparently the next ball game will have the most pitiful outcome of this century ..where the depression will force us all to abandon our job and go into bankruptcy ...-----------------------------------------------------------I could respect Nader if he actually fought for change the years in between elections. -----------------------------------------------------------....Did you ever hear of tact?George bush ..osama barrack ...John Mccain ..all had their Vp's rush out the bail out bill for them ..Nader took TIME between elections to study before he started suggesting bills ..----------------------------------------------------------He only pops out of his hole at election time. How can you support someone that doesn't do anything in between elections to change our current political system? ------------------------------------------------------------Well ..I ensure him to be alive at the last moment when we need him to speak up the most ..and not mobbed because no one will know him ..You know -- like all those federal judges that mysterious disappeared so long ago?-----------------------------------------------------------If he wants to be taken seriously as a candidate and political reformer, he needs to do something besides throw his hat in the ring every four years.--------------------------------------------------------------Did one of you guys Not make a point stating that you cannot blame Obama for having just arriving on the scene?You guys are using that: We have many different opinion things too far. Especially when you contradict yourselves without letting each other know.Here's what you two should do. Band together ..go over everyone of your points, and get 10 more obama fans to help support your cause ..It's nearing the elections right?

greenpartyfan 6 years, 2 months ago

so we get screwed again, this time by a bush clone? marion, you definitely are proving you are exactly what most forum users think you are.----------------------------------------------------This idiot is just calling Ralph a Bush Clone ...without any explanation of why and just goes on to insult Marion ...and claim that forum users from outer space think that person is ...are...something ..?

greenpartyfan 6 years, 2 months ago

This is true even though Obama's progressivism leaves much to be desired (although we really don't know how progressive he will or won't be until and unless he is actually elected, as NO politician at the presidential level gets elected saying what they will actually do).-----------------------------------------------------------------Nader says that SOMETIMES we don't have a choice. ..How much else would they Actually do with global warming? What else can they do other than Impeach bush? What happens if they don't crack down on Corporate crimes? What happens if they don't allow 3rd party members to speak up? A lot of their issues are yes or no. Do or don't . ..Should we save our economy? ..did Obama do that for us?

greenpartyfan 6 years, 2 months ago

But before I tell you about all the corporate stock he owns, let me tell you why I'm even bothering to expose such a cartoon-caricature of an unreconstructed market-bashing liberal for the hypocrite he is.-------------------------------------------------------------Could you spend 1 percent of that airtime ..also telling us how hypocritcal Obama was for using his mother's death as an excuse to promote his plan for health insurance ...?Did he even mention how many other people die ...in america ..every year?WOW he cares about all of us too!

greenpartyfan 6 years, 2 months ago

"Ralph is the poster boy for a new group that emerged in the sixties and is now part of the politically-correct American scene today, the Perpetually Indignant (PI). PI people are always mad about something. They tend to use shrill hyperbole in their speech, which makes them ideal candidates for TV interviews. Nader made an industry out of being PI. He formed all sorts of watch dog groups that are ready to start barking on cue. Circling high overhead of the PI watch dogs, are another species, the trial lawyers. Like vultures, the trial lawyers can smell money from on high and swiftly drop down on promising targets. Trial lawyer contributions feed the PI watch dogs to keep them going. Sadly, every so often, an Enron comes along to energize and justify the PI-Trial Lawyer ecosystem."---------------------------------------------------------Did you just compare Ralph and all his supporters as dogs ..and the lawyers who write a lot -- as Indians?Or were you actually not trying to make a racist statement and insult dogs?Just bringing that up reminds me of the term: scapegoat ..Now you don't see Nader having that reputation right?

greenpartyfan 6 years, 2 months ago

Exactly ..that's a good point. Every person has the right to run for candidate and every citizen needs the right to vote. If you're going to say: lets not vote for nader because he won't win ...You're saying: Lets not give Nader a chance to help audiences figure out Why we can't impeach George Bush.And unfortunately, like it or not -- that's a big issue.

greenpartyfan 6 years, 2 months ago

Nader is full of himself and enjoys his spoiler role almost as much as he enjoys getting paid to deny it. Nader is a brand and I'm not buying it.----------------------------------------------------------------You just ..supported Obama ...who will probably enjoy his own role pretty damn soon -- and probably gets more pay than Nader would accept. Do I even have to explain that hypocrisy is human nature and natural as long as we learn from it?And finally ..Freedom does cost a bit more than just money. It costs effort -- whether it's social or withstanding the bullying and death threats.So far ..you just compared Nader to a Product that you think you can actually purchase ..Well, if that's the case -- He's not for sale. Think about it.

greenpartyfan 6 years, 2 months ago

His personal investment portfolio, worth millions of dollars, tells a far different story.-------------------------------------------------------------------I don't care where he invests millions of dollars ..Why did Obama give 700 billion to wallstreet?!

greenpartyfan 6 years, 2 months ago

So I just read that if Nader wins even two percent of the vote in a state like Missouri, that would be enough to swing it for McCain:If that happens each and every one of these hippies needs to be tarred and feathered.-------------------------------------------------I don't know who you're calling a hippie ...I think they're actual people who isn't joking about McCain winning the presidency ..Y'know ..they kinda already can tell that Obama supporters are having rather useful ways of attacking them instead of having to worry about McCain winning.You can worry about Bush winning ..That didn't stop you from voting, but once Bush won ...he devised a plan for two tickets in a two party system ..Sure ..McCain can win anytime ..But since Bush has absolutely nothing to do with McCain ...We should (ugh) vote for Obama because ..He also agrees with Bush -- and has been quote on youtube to have said so?Isn't Bush the one making things hard in this society because he's been eating Cake with McCaine Katrina happened?Is Obama even having to answer to that?

greenpartyfan 6 years, 2 months ago

Finally to the big paragraph that claims that nader is a hypocrite ...So he self promotes ..Good for him -- because that suggests to me that he does have pride.Finally -- your argument seems to be:Well I supported him in 2004 and the 60's ..Now that he's doing something so hypocritical I'll just swing my votes or not vote at all ..The solution is not someone whose been making sense since he has his own political agenda ..Hmm ..First -- Nader makes sense. Two ..He points out that you could easily vote for anyone else ..In fact -- Everyone should run together ..He invites the green party to run with him ..?Now ..if everyone was going to vote for who they wanted to ..I don't think Obama would actually win ..Plus ..Since they rigg the polls ..They probably can photoshop your voting form to look like you voted Obama ..But unfortunately ..They really can't photoshop your voice ..If you say you vote Nader ..Maybe they'll listen. If you Just vote Nader -- ..That's when they bring out the special white out.

greenpartyfan 6 years, 2 months ago

...and these questions? Do we really want to go through another 4 years where they just violate One right law after another?--------------------------------------------------------The outcome makes a great deal of difference to the very issues Nader has spent years supporting, so it makes more sense to vote for Obama to move the progressive agenda forward than to vote for McCain or Nader. ----------------------------------------------------------It will make a big difference ..17 of those issues will suddenly run amuck ..causing more chaos among already disastisfied citizens ..until the corporate turns into a monopoly and supresses us with tear gas.--------------------------------------------------------------

greenpartyfan 6 years, 2 months ago

Nader is sure unsafe at any speed but the Corvair was not!Nader lied.There were no design flaws in the original Corvair design, General Motors never lost a lawsuit over the Corvair and the problems experienced by owners of the swing-axle cars were the fault of the owners; specifically, failure to keep the tires properly inflated.Every Volkswagen, every Mercedes-Benz and a few other cars of the time used the same swing-axle technology.Nader was and is disingenous; nevertheless, I encourage all "liberals" to vote for Nader.------------------------------Are you going to suggest to me -- That since the Pento car actually used to have it's engine located in the bumper of the car ..and then if someone crashes into the back of the car -- and the person in the car -- will have the doors automatically locked in on them and CANNOT get out -- and then the freaking car will burn up -- that THIS was acceptable for All old cars because ALL old cars happened to burn their drivers alive? And because Nader lied ..ALL other models were built this way so we should just settle for a crappier candidate?Because -- Y'know ..Obama and McCain aren't baad one bit?

greenpartyfan 6 years, 2 months ago

We may lose, and Or we live with the fact that we voted for someone, who will represent us ...will not represent us at all ..and instead talk with president bush about how much whiners the society has become ..and then laughs as the news entertainment outlines some details of two islands completely submerged under the ocean.There's always a chance that won't happen, but we would never Know right? So that's why we'll have to rely on our own logic and what we see in life. Who makes sense? Why is the media banning Ralph Nader ..Why is everyone who seems to be on the news suddenly rich or favors the two party system?

greenpartyfan 6 years, 2 months ago

The only truthful statement to ever come out of Nader's mouth is that there isn't any real difference between the Republican and Democrat parties. Without a "none of the above" option on the ballot, you're voting for the lesser of two evils. Voting for one to keep the lesser out of office is understandable, but if you're truly enthusiastic about either candidate, then, well, I hope you're voting for the first time and haven't yet learned any better:::..----------------Ahem, He also said that scarcity loaded everyone. He also said President George Bush should be impeached ...He also said that Solar energy would have been better ..He also pointed out that Clean coal isn't real ..He also pointed out that Wallstreet is a Casino sellout ..And y'know what a casino sellout is? It's when a lot of people in the business try to win ..Where a LOT of minorities don't get a chance and they don't know ..and only the big corporate heads will get a bit more loose change than they used to.Look at the economy now...Businesses are giving 50 percents sales just to get people to buy stuff ..because they can still afford to exist as long as their ..Uhm ..consumers actually need the materials?And everyone here is getting mad at Nader -- for ..what..having a 5,000 dollar mansion?Obama actually lives in a 300,000 one ..where he got his other friend to pay half of that amount ...Nader doesn't accept donations of OVER 3,000 ..If you're voting Obama ..You just pay for his rent ..and the war.

greenpartyfan 6 years, 2 months ago

Nader has always been more of an entertaining sideshow to me than anyone to be taken seriously. I actually derive some secret pleasure from the supposedly anti-establishment gadfly's shtick of puncturing the self-righteous rhetoric of the stuffed-shirts in both parties, because it injects a refreshing honesty perverse, misguided and, as it turns out, phony, as it may be into the otherwise stale presidential campaigns of poll-tested platitudes. I had hoped he'd run again for kicks.-----------------------------------------------------------------So you're amused ..and you think Nader is a pretty ridiculous comedic choice ..I don't think you mentioned Sarah Palin either ..but of course you can always just Not mention her when mentioning sideshow comedians.Unfortunately, I find voting Obama more perverse as he's inspiring americans everywhere to vote for the lesser of two evils ..Isn't he still doing it?But recently Nader has become the liberal media elite's go-to guy for bashing corporate management in the wake of Enron's pension-robbing collapse. And, frighteningly enough, he's starting to make sense to reasonable people particularly scared pre-retirement workers who normally would have turned him off before he could plunge into another of his eye-twitching fulminations against capitalism (and not just Enron's corrupt brand of crony capitalism).-----------------------------------------------Unfortunately ..You forgot the other 150,000 who probably lost their jobs ..and countless more who is losing their homes...

greenpartyfan 6 years, 2 months ago

-----------------------------------------------------------------From the timeline: 2004-2008Point: Nader helped re-elect Bush.Response: Right now ..I don't see him as very agreeable with Bush. He's trying to change his past ways -- (since..4 years ago) .. and he's trying to announce that Bush should be impeached ..I know you can be disappointed in the last election ..But So was I. I think a lot of other people were as well, but that should in no fact be the reason not to elect Nader. Even if he disappoints us, right now he has made issues known that No other candidate in this 2 party fake system is speaking of.Can't you ask the question: Why haven't they spoken of it? It's certainly not to make Nader look good or the media would be supporting him ..How did this backwards logic become so well done anyway? I mean ..It's bad enough that phone sex is accessable by George Bush. ..I know that. But Nader IS in no way helping that guy ..He won't even accept corporation donations ..which would have given him a lot of funds to even run the ads.Here's my conclusion: Nader doesn't just want money for the campaign ..He needs 12,000 supporters more than that. He already has a lot, but that's stupid if you think he's having too much of a High expectation.This is a very good idea of his strategy:First you tell a kid too tell you their biggest ambitions and goals in life. Then you tell them that when they make that goal -- to double the challenge and continue to do so for as long as they can.That ..is the only way to improve your expectations and quality of living ..It's more important than just simply doing what you want.

greenpartyfan 6 years, 2 months ago

Bozo-it's your attitude that will keep Kansas a shameful shade of red, when this year, more than ever, we have the chance to turn it purple, at least.--------------------------------------------------------------...I thought red was for angry ..and purple is for grapes---------------------------------------------------------------Yeah, yeah, it would be nice if there were more than two major parties in this country, but there are not and this is not the time to dilute the vote. ------------------------------------------------------------------ ... Two parties ..Two choices. Nader -- Not there. Diluting the vote to ...Who?----------------------------------------------------------------This is possibly the most crucial election many of us will ever see in our lifetime, so why waste your vote on a quack-and thus give the undivided right wingers a strong victory?------------------------------------------------------------------I think ..they divided your party in two ..pretending to give you a choice to decide ..You see ..there's not really a choice to vote for one ..Maybe 1/2 and 1/2 of an evil government monopoly.-----------------------------------------------------------------Obama has a better chance in KS than any Democrat has had in many years. -----------------------------------------------------------------So in supporting your democratic party ..You elect a joint decision by the republicans and democratic candidates to allow their chairman people to run and set up the debate, including allowing which moderator, and what questions were to be asked, and then somehow expecting sarah palin not to know about the moderator...And no one was cheating how?-------------------------------------------------------------------Help push him over the top. He has the the intelligence, the education, the experience, and the integrity to really effect some positive change in this country.---------------------------------------------------------------------I find it ironic how Mr. McCaine is just a little less older than Nader -- and how Obama beats them both in the experience rating ...Unfortunately, as time suggest, you gain knowledge as the years go by..As supporters of Obama just clued you into -- You can buy public opinion of your experience!-----------------------------------------------------------Nader would be lame no matter who else was running.------------------------------------------------------------If this is how you decide how to run for the Presidency of the US ..I'd hate to see how you're going to pay for the bills. Taxes are lame ..but Obama isn't. Obama raises taxes for the good of the people..In order to exterminate the small businesses -- and PEOPLE who make 250,000 a year.Unfortunately, he didn't realize that geniune homeowners who lend out their apartments at fair prices ..will most likely be under that category too.

greenpartyfan 6 years, 2 months ago

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRCBsFaUz_YI won't bother responding to: Anonymous userbeobachterLet me direct you guys here (the real voice of reason): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRCBsF...

greenpartyfan 6 years, 2 months ago

washington Ralph Nader takes little stock in corporate America convinced, as he is, that big business is the root of all societal ills.

greenpartyfan 6 years, 2 months ago

----------------------------------------------------------------If you've seen all his videos ..I don't see how he can promote himself with mentioning the Palestinians ..Just because we agree with him ...Or he's trying to convince us of a topic ..Is he suddenly promoting himself? Or is he allowing us the chance to get better representation?-------------------------------------------------------------------Ultimately, the winner will be either a democrat or a republican, not Ralph Nader. --------------------------------- ...and this -- winning idea will either screw us all over if we buy into that sort of phobia. You say mccain wins if Obama doesn't .. I disagree ..Those two lose in the end no matter which 2 wins the vote. ..Unless they really don't care about us -- they win because they'll be living in their giant cash homes and paying attention to their corporate consumers who will be carrying whips and tazers for all they care.

greenpartyfan 6 years, 2 months ago

---------------------------------------------------------------------Because Obama's plan to send US troops of only 250,000 into Pakistan ..Unfortunately, Vietnam people were able to outsmart the US failed war attempt .I don't see why Pakistan wouldn't actually catch on ...since a lot of vietnamese people used their land to their advantage .as they were the ones who knew they were gonna be attacked.If anything's been corrupt ..You should actually see that photo of an american soldier eating their muscles and tissues fiber by fiber ..just for nutrition to survive .. Americans still lost anyway in that war.

greenpartyfan 6 years, 2 months ago

On ABC's "This Week," Nader charged that Enron is not a bad apple, but "part of a corporate crime wave." On NBC's "Meet the Press," he again attempted to demonize all corporations by arguing that "Enron is symbolic of the corruption of corporate politics," whatever that means.-------------------------------------------------------------------Corporate powers have existed, have supported, and allowed all this to happen. They aren't even the entities referred in the constitution and still ..Most americans these days are their slaves regardless ...Not demonic at all ..

greenpartyfan 6 years, 2 months ago

Nader comment: We don't teach people to think, but to believe.Well ..Nader's right. You can't teach someone to think when they don't want to if they don't believe you first ....and then the only way you can teach them anything afterwards is if they take that knowledge of "doing something" and use it..They have to put a lot of their own strategies and planning ya know ..just to ensure that their lives don't get screwed over in the future.I don't think Obama even mentions teaching civic ..Just the fact that Nader will and gives examples IS impressing that Americans have the chance to fight their..Un-democratic control right now.If we don't ..really -- he can't teach us that. He just has to give people hope first to believe in themselves.

ralphralph 6 years, 2 months ago

A guy like Nader probably should never be President, but he should ALWAYS be allowed to take part in the discussion. You could say the same of Ron Paul. Either of those two, or both of them, being on the podium for a debate with Zerobama and McCane would tend more to force them to answer the questions, or stand red-faced as someone actually points out that they are not answering. None of the big media moderators seems willing to do that.

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