Mark Mangino asks students to stop explicit chant
Mark Mangino filmed this video about a chant said at KU football games that has drawn the ire of KU officials and some students. He sent it to students in an e-mail. Enlarge video
Reader poll
On the street
What do you think of Kansas University football fans’ obscene chant?
I don’t think it’s a big deal. I partake in it. I’d rather do that than other things, like throwing stuff at the other team. I understand it’s offensive to people with children at the game, but they’re going to hear worse on TV.
Kansas University football coach Mark Mangino will ask football fans this week to stop yelling an obscene chant after kickoffs.
Mangino will make the remarks in a video that will be e-mailed to students and displayed on the video board before Saturday's football game against the University of Colorado, said Jim Marchiony, an athletics department spokesman.
In the message, Mangino will ask the thousands of students who yell "Rip his (expletive) head off" after kickoffs to find something else to say.
"Students were on board with Coach and the players before anybody. He'll recognize that and thank them for their support," Marchiony said. "He's going to suggest that they think about what they've been saying and ask that they replace it with something else."
Wrong image?
The new video comes after the leadership at the University Daily Kansan initiated a meeting last week to brainstorm ideas that would prevent the chant from reaching the ears of young children at the games and national television audiences at home.
Matt Erickson, editor of the student newspaper, said the university has many more unique traditions to offer.
The Olathe senior said he didn't like the image the chant projects for the university.
Erickson said he didn't much care for the origins of this particular chant, either - it comes from the 1998 movie "The Waterboy."
"This is a line from a Rob Schneider cameo from the third-best Adam Sandler movie," Erickson said. "I don't see how that relates to KU."
Students' opinions
Students at the university had differing views on the issue on Wednesday.
"I'm all for the chant," said Paul Bickford, an Olathe sophomore. "It motivates the team. It motivates me. It gets people riled up."
He said he's one of the thousands who yell the words every time he attends a football game. He compared the atmosphere to a professional football game, where he said you can often find loud, drunk adults swearing all the time.
"It's become part of KU tradition now," he said of the chant, adding that he didn't know if anything short of the fans thinking their chant was annoying or bothering the players in some way would get it to stop.
Marchiony said that he hears from students who take a different view, including those who wonder how the chant sounds to outsiders.
"Is this really the way we want to portray ourselves," Marchiony said, echoing complaints he's heard from students.
Grant Treaster, a junior from Shawnee, said to count him among the students who'd like to see the chant stop. Typically after kickoffs, he'll chant along with the students and omit the obscenity.
He said he didn't find the chant appropriate given how many young children attend football games. On top of that, he didn't think that the chant was that original in the first place.
"I think we're all bright and college students," he said. "And we can come up with something better than that."
Finding an alternative
Erickson e-mailed some different people at the university and set up a meeting last Friday to brainstorm ideas on how to stop the obscene chant.
He said the group included himself and other student newspaper editors, Marchiony, Adam McGonigle, student body president, Todd Cohen, director of university relations, and KU linebacker Mike Rivera, among others.
"It's a student-led initiative, which to us is good," Marchiony said, saying he hoped students would be more likely to listen to other students asking them to stop the chant.
Discussions among members of that group came up with the video. Erickson said the student newspaper may have a contest to get some more creative ideas for a chant from the student body.
Wisconsin's experience
Obscene football chants are not unique to Kansas. At the University of Wisconsin in Madison, one group of students at football games will chant "Eat (expletive)," and another group will respond, "(Expletive) you."
"We get a lot of complaints," said Amy Toburen, a university spokeswoman, but that doesn't deter the students. "They're persistent about their words and they're persistent about their odd traditions."
Just like at KU, the university worries about the impact on families and small children attending games, she said. And it's also audible on television broadcasts.
The university has used a variety of methods to ask students to stop using the chants. Both the previous chancellor of the university and the head football coach have asked the students to stop, to no avail.
Some people have other ideas, such as an effort to get student leaders and players to put together a campaign to stop the chant.
"Everybody's been a little timid to try it because they don't think it'll work," Toburen said.
Comments
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hometownhawk (anonymous) says…
Doesn't make it right, but I betcha anything that when a camera's not in front of their face the players on KO coverage would say they love to hear the chant.
takeastand (anonymous) says…
AmenStop the chant.
JackRipper (anonymous) says…
Oh yes, just more proof of how much class KU doesn't have but go ahead and pat yourself on your back about what a class operation it is. But is the chant really much more obscene than what college athletics have turned into anyway?
missmagoo (anonymous) says…
bottom line, it's not nice and it's unsportsmanlike. look at what happened in professional football to guys like kevin everett of the buffalo bills. doesn't seem 'funny' or 'motivating' when someone gets seriously hurt on a tackle or play.
kerplunkr (anonymous) says…
I know! How about the students say:"Use the *expletive* practice field!" Also, why is this just NOW becoming an issue? KU admins should have heard this chant YEARS ago and done something about it.
over_par (anonymous) says…
I attend the KU Football games everyweek with my two young children. I pay for ticktets for them just like everybody else. There is nothing more annoying than trying to watch the game w/ my family and there are people yelling obscence words all around us. Believe it or not there are still parents who try and control what their children are exposed to. This is sopost to be a family atmosphere, so i would like to see it that way.
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Kuku_Kansas (anonymous) says…
Perhaps the KU football team should just stop scoring points to reduce the number of times they would have to kick-off during a game???And over_par, I hope you're not the annoying family that sits in behind me, whose children spill pop and drop hot dogs with mustard all over my bleacher row. And kick my back. Hit the back of my head. And scream like holy-hell when they see Baby Jay in the North Bowl. If so, I'll probably still be rather obnoxious. It's supposed to be a football atmosphere, so I'd like to see it stay that way. But...without your kids.
autie (anonymous) says…
Bad form. Bad form. I am a die hard Jayhawk and I cuss Mizzou and KState all the time..in the correct context and company. I like to think my University is a place of honor and class..this is just wrong. we are better than that. We are By God University of Kansas..not a bunch of ghetto thugs..and any student that thinks different may be in the wrong school. If that is the way you want to act, go to Miami.
TheOriginalCA (anonymous) says…
Coach is going to have a difficult time with his credibility on this one since he got in trouble for the f-bomb laced tyrade after that LHS game and after his f-bomb laced tongue lashing of Raymond Pendleton and had it end up on Youtube.
DemoParty (anonymous) says…
Free speech allows everyone to show their true colors. And unfortunately KU students are showing their true nature. KU lost its class years ago. How about that "Sex on the Hill" edition of the UDK, now that's classy....
MrMister (anonymous) says…
I sat in the north bowl with my family at a game and, quite frankly, couldn't understand what they were saying. I'm pretty sure the only people who can understand it without knowing in advance what it is would be the opposing team on that sideline. with all the sound reflection, it isn't even intelligable on the west wing of the stadium. The only reason people on that side of the stadium know what the chant is is that they used to chant it themselves before they became intelligent.
walter_sobchak (anonymous) says…
I got buddies who died face down in the muck
The_Original_Bob (anonymous) says…
"Also, why is this just NOW becoming an issue? KU admins should have heard this chant YEARS ago and done something about it." KerplunkThat's what I've been saying since this whole thing became an issue. The article states that this came from The Waterboy. Hogwash. I remember as a student (93-97) that we said it (I was wrong and hang my head in shame.) However, I know why it is news now. 1) KU is good and the stadium isn't half empty or less every game. 2) More importantly... KU is on tv every game and East Coast Lew believes this taints KU.Original CA - Good point.
tls (anonymous) says…
I admire students, university staff, and others who at least give some effort to stop obscene language - albeit to little avail. We all have the responsibility to monitor our own behavior - not to attempt the policing of imbeciles who show a lack of intelligence in their choice of language. So, let the majority rise above low-life language and cheer the Hawks appropriately! Rock Chalk!
tangential_reasoners_anonymous (anonymous) says…
"Mangino at the Center...?!"Whoa, given the gravity of this situation,we have the makings of a black hole.
jhawks360 (anonymous) says…
I think the chant is funny - but Coach Mangino has done so much for KU football, and if he asks me to stop - I will.If we appreciate what Mark has done for the program, let's follow his lead and accept his request.
TheYetiSpeaks (anonymous) says…
walter_sobchak (Anonymous) says..I got buddies who died face down in the muck "Uh, excuse me, miss...for your information, the Supreme Court has roundly rejected prior restraint. Don't leave, Dude, this affects us all......I'm not leavin'. I'm finishin' my coffee....enjoyin' my coffee."
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crackers (anonymous) says…
I blame Dick Cheney for this unfortunate situation.
JackRipper (anonymous) says…
over_par-family event? You mean with the drunks and overhyped morons, the blaring PA system that seems to be needed now days to build exciting, and the coach on the sidelines swearing like a sailor? Get real."I am a die hard Jayhawk and I cuss Mizzou and KState all the time..in the correct context and company"Can anyone explain the real reason to give a rats rear end about this schools "program" vs an others? How many of the players are really from one state or the other and really in the big picture, who cares? KU, KSU, Mizzou, whatever isn't it time to grow up?
JackRipper (anonymous) says…
"I think the chant is funny - but Coach Mangino has done so much for KU football, and if he asks me to stop - I will."Oh yeah, the man who swears like a drunk sailor at the players. Perhaps setting a good example is more important then lip service but it seems lip service is all that it takes for idiot fans.
BigPrune (anonymous) says…
NOT trying to be a prude but, Does KU still play the opening of AC/DC's Hell's Bells before kickoff? Here's the rest of the song.....I'm a rolling thunder, a pouring rainI'm comin on like a hurricaneMy lightnings flashing across the skyYou're only young but you're gonna dieI won't take no prisoners, won't spare no livesNobody's putting up a fightI got my bell, I'm gonna take you to hellI'm gonna get you, Satan get youChorus:Hells bellsYeah, hells bellsYou got me ringing hells bellsMy temperature's high, hells bellsI'll give you black sensations up and down your spineIf you're into evil you're a friend of mineSee my white light flashing as I split the nightcause if goods on the left, then I'm stickin' to the rightI won't take no prisoners, won't spare no livesNobody's puttin' up a fightI got my bell, I'm gonna take you to hellI'm gonna get you, Satan get youChorusYeowHells bells, Satan's comin' to youHells bells, he's ringing them nowHells bells, the temperatures highHells bells, across the skyHells bells, they're takin' you downHells bells, they're draggin' you aroundHells bells, gonna split the nightHells bells, there's no way to fight, yeahOw, ow, ow, owHells bellsIf KU is STILL playing the entrance of this song, then why should KU expect kids to stop saying the "F" word?
JackRipper (anonymous) says…
Oh yeah Big Prune and if you are lucky sometimes you will hear them blaring it around 10 at night since they don't seem to give a darn about the neighbors. It was particularly delightful the other day when they had the PA cranked up so loud you could hear it all the way to 6th street with the fake fan noise. Yes, with neighbors like that why should you expect anymore from the fans.
Easy_Does_It (anonymous) says…
KU should teach these kids a lesson. Move all home games to Arrow Head and charge them $30 to park. Who do they think the games are for anyway?I am just sick of these students wanting to come to games and watch other students play. They need to recognize that these athletes are better people than they are and deserve a certain level of reverence. I know a long time ago athletics was a simple divergence from classes, a way to maybe blow off some steam, maybe have a good time. But these days it is a Multi-billion dollar business and no longer kid's games. No more dancing in the end zone when you make a touchdown, no more foul language from the stands, and let's face it, we could simply pipe in the fight song and sell those extra seats the band useses, as there are plenty of folks who want to see the spectacle.I say at a minimum we should find these hooligans and tell their parents what they have been doing.PS I think most of the kids learned the F word from watching coach on You Tube, seemed to be one of his favorite, one might say signature words.
The_Original_Bob (anonymous) says…
Put me in the corner of Big Prune and JackRiper on hating the canned music thing. Probably for different reasons, but good lawdy, playing 20 year old songs blasted loud is dumb.
Easy_Does_It (anonymous) says…
Sounds like a new T-shirt in the making for Larry. Maybe coach has the IP rights to the F-bomb?
JackRipper (anonymous) says…
Easy_does_it nails it! Yes, when intercollegiate sports started I imagine it was for the kids to play and watch but when the boomers were able to figure out how much money could be made suddenly luxury seats in the end zone and paying for everything including the right to tailgate at the stadium became the norm. Thanks boomers for ruining something meant for fun like sports and also tanking the economy. What a generation.
JackRipper (anonymous) says…
"Put me in the corner of Big Prune and JackRiper on hating the canned music thing. Probably for different reasons, but good lawdy, playing 20 year old songs blasted loud is dumb."And the gawdy video thing. May gosh, when did it have to be turned into and ADHD event instead of just enjoying the game without all the hype.
JackRipper (anonymous) says…
And not to mention the hideous complex they have built at the bottom of the hill. It was nice to see them actually using the practice fields today. Really getting their money's worth out of those but we can still peak around the $90000 worth of trees. Did they bid the tree contract out or does First Management just get the job because of William Fund donations?
bgtf (anonymous) says…
Honestly, why not "Rock Chalk Jayhawk". The rhythm is almost exactly the same. Why don't the adults on the other side of the stadium start saying "Rock Chalk Jayhawk". The students who want to go along will and I bet you that in time the chant will change. Nothing beats a "Rock Chalk" and KU students who believe in true tradition will make the change. Please pass this along.
JackRipper (anonymous) says…
Maybe for the same reasons you can't sit on the hill and watch the game? Is it old fashion? You can't expect to change the nature of college sports for hucksters to profit off of and not expect the vulgarness of it all to spread to the general populace do you?
terrapin2 (anonymous) says…
It is totally obscene when they scream that chant, plain & simple! I too wish the students would show a bit more class and come up with a new chant. Especially as a parent of two small, very well-behaved children who occasionally attend KU's home football games with us! We sit on the West side near the 50 yard line and it is very clear what the students are yelling, so don't feed me that line of garbage!!!As for stopping the students from yelling that chant at the rest of the KU games I have a very simple solution! Any student caught shouting that horrible chant should be immediately removed from Memorial Stadium and have their identity recorded so they will face greater penalties for future violations! Why put up with this crap? On the back of the KU football tickets it very clearly states that you can be ejected from the Stadium for inappropriate behavior! More specifically it states the following:"It is understood that the license granted by this ticket is for the purpose of viewing the game only as an eyewitness. Kansas Athletics, Inc. further reserves the right to eject and prosecute any person whose conduct is deemed unbecoming (e.g. throwing objects, abusive or vulgar language)."So why not kick out the students who yell that damn chant?!?!?! And then prosecute them for disorderly conduct! Who's in charge at KU anyway? It certainly isn't the student population!
terrapin2 (anonymous) says…
JackRipperWhat the heck are you talking about??? lots of people still flock to the Hill to watch the home games! And now that our opportunities to go the early home games are over I'll be taking my family up to the Hill for the rest of the home games! And we'll play on the Hill, and watch the game from the Hill, and cheer on our KU football team from the Hill!!!
JackRipper (anonymous) says…
terrapin2 so the game is not for the students aye? Good luck finding a place to watch the game with all the tents up there this weekend and trying to see around the megatron. Good God, teach your kids how to grow up and learn that at some point you need to get the "team spirit" bull under control.
jhawks360 (anonymous) says…
"Please, out of the whole world does everyone really believe that Mangino is that great for football at KU." - Hawkperchhell yes! ku has traditionally had a program that makes most high school teams look great. Mangino comes to town and all the sudden we're winning BCS bowls. Respect Mangino. Stop the chant.
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jhawks360 (anonymous) says…
"I think we started it in 1981!!!" - SailorI think you didn't....It's from an Adam Sandler movie called 'The Waterboy.' The movie came out in 1998. The chant itself came from the white trash character played by Rob Schneider - how... Mizzouri of us to impersonate that.
JackRipper (anonymous) says…
"Respect Mangino. Stop the chant."In the mean time I suppose it doesn't matter that he uses the same language with the players and that is ok as long as the alumni who don't have lives can brag about their team winning like it does anything at all for them in reality except to pathetically tie their lives not to the real purpose of a university but for the money making arm that has no relevance to academics whatsoever.
sailor (anonymous) says…
Ohhh, How aboutWhere is the party going?""Party out of bounds""More leg kicks""Stuff that hole""More cheerleading scholarships"You name it, we made it up, and we yelled it...Rock Chalk Jayhawk
sailor (anonymous) says…
jhawks360 says:"It's from an Adam Sandler movie called 'The Waterboy.' The movie came out in 1998. The chant itself came from the white trash character played by Rob Schneider".What do you think those directors were doing before 1998.They came to Lawrence (around 1980)? They kept on coming and made the "Day After" in 1983 and so on.Just let the students be students. It's a college town. Take the young kids to high school games or sit somewhere else!
tangential_reasoners_anonymous (anonymous) says…
'twould seem it's never over, Marion.
dweezil222 (anonymous) says…
No offense, but when did college sporting events stop being about, oh, I don't know, the students. At many schools student seating has dwindled more and more with each passing year, just so the athletic dept. can rake in some more money from people willing to pay absurd amounts of money for season tickets. God forbid a college team should consider its students first, and others later. Not saying it justifies the chant, just making a point.Second, whoever said something earlier about how the KU games are just like professional games now... hey, no s**t. That's what happens when you have an "amateur" sport that generates millions of dollars and encourages coaches to find creative ways to give athletes perks so they'll want to come to your school.
hometownhawk (anonymous) says…
How many cliche and dumb one liners can Marion Lynn "contribute" to the thread? How pathetic that your mind can only manage to recycle these stupid jokes whenever Mangino is mentioned.
sailor (anonymous) says…
Why the heck the Athletic dept. change the student section? We used to sit on the east side, south of the band. Nobody could hear us when we yelled, so it didn't matter what we yelled.Just put the students next to the band and have the band start playing somthing when it's time to kick the ball!
jhawks360 (anonymous) says…
Students are waaaay classier than to have to be drowned out by the band.Students do the chant because they don't really think about the effects of it. Hopefully Mangino's plea will do that.Student will respond when their AP Coach of the Year asks them.
sailor (anonymous) says…
Students need a release. They have been studying all week, cooped up in their dorm rooms or at the library (or at the Hawk). They have been waiting for the Saturday. They need to get some pressure of their chest. This is their way of letting the world know that their voices will be heard.
sailor (anonymous) says…
I say to all students, yell "Rip his Mucking head off"". Muck See You!
RKLOG (Mark Andrew) says…
How about "rip his fudgy head off." Then more people will be thinking about fudge.
71_Hawk (anonymous) says…
KU is not going to arrest and prosecute you liberals who bring up the first amendment issue, they have only asked for you to choose something else. It's not for the players, they can't hear you during the play, it' s for other's who find it offensive. I'd suggest that Bickford, and those of you not smart enough to find an alternative, transfer to MU where this activity is condoned.
Solomon (anonymous) says…
Since when did "free" speech require that others listen to obscene drivel?
mislis80 (anonymous) says…
Yeah, the students won't listen to Mangino - they aren't sheep who follow orders just because the large man with the huge paycheck says so.And it is a football game, not an opera. Who cares about class - it is a violent, testosterone-filled sport that has the primary goal of tackling and tearing down as many other large men as you can so that you can score points. It is a fantastic sport, but hardly a classy sport. So, that argument about us having more class than that doesn't really hold weight. If it was a classy venue and a classy event, yes - you don't see student shouting curse words at the Lied Center or at Murphy Hall. However, this is football, and if want your kids to see something so violent, then I don't know why you are shocked when you hear something vulgar.
Yabut (anonymous) says…
"He [Paul Bickford] said he's one of the thousands who yell the words every time he attends a football game. He compared the atmosphere to a professional football game, where he said you can often find loud, drunk adults swearing all the time."Actually, the NFL prides itself on providing a family friendly atmosphere and has required new policies be adopted regarding fan conduct.chiefs fan code of conductthe Kansas City Chiefs are committed to creating a safe, comfortable and enjoyable experience for our fans. When attending a game, the stadium staff will proactively intervene to support an environment where event patrons, their guests and other fans can enjoy the event, free from the following behaviors:¢ Foul, obscene, offensive or abusive language or actions¢ Continual standing and/or obstructing the view of other fans¢ Intoxication or other signs of impairment¢ Smoking except in designated areas¢ Fighting and unruly or inconsiderate behavior¢ Obscene or indecent clothing or signs¢ Conduct that endangers spectators or participants¢ Harassment of visiting team fans¢ Interfering with the progress of the game, going onto the field orthrowing any object onto the field¢ Failing to follow instructions of stadium personnel¢ Selling items or tickets in the stadium or on sports complex grounds¢ Attempting to sit in a location other than the guest's ticketed seat¢ Destroying propertyEvent patrons are responsible for their conduct as well as the conduct of their guests and/or persons occupying their seats. Please respect the rights of others. Event patrons and guests who choose not to adhere to these provisions will be subject to ejection without refund.
stuckinthemiddle (anonymous) says…
~chuckle~funny, isn't it... that the newspaper will print the horribly violent ripping the head off part... but not the expletive...the "F word" never hurt anyone...
craigers (anonymous) says…
I don't know if anybody has said this, but the line from Waterboy is, "Cut his (expletive) head off." It is not rip...
mom_of_three (anonymous) says…
Until this year, I could never understand what they were chanting. I have taken my kids to games, and frankly, they laugh at the language, because it's dumb and childish to say it. It's not gonna shock anyone's kids, because the real world uses that language from time to time, no matter what we do to shield kids from it. Do I think the chant needs to be changed? Yes, because when I understood the words, finally, I thought it lacked class. Can we replace it with something else? yes, certainly. Do I think students needs a place to vent after studying all week? Sure, but I don't think chanting the f* word does it. Besides, that's what I thought Thursday night drinking was all about.
webmocker (anonymous) says…
at 8:26 p.m.The_Original_Bob (Anonymous) says: "KU is on tv every game and East Coast Lew believes this taints KU."Heh, heh, he said "taint."
LooPerkinsucks (anonymous) says…
That's typical of such a classy KU fan base. Probably some of the rudest fans I've ever had the misfortune to encounter.I hope the Buffs roll over your sorry a$$es.
cthulhu_4_president (anonymous) says…
People are surprised that they hear swear words when attending a sporting event? Seriously? It's like getting mad at a resteraunt because you hate their food, but you keep going over, and over, again. If you don't like the experience, don't go to the games!Considering Mangino said that he didn't even know about the chant until this year (citing the big headphones he wears) I find his PSA quite entertaining.I work with many KU players everyday, and they love it!
The_Original_Bob (anonymous) says…
"I don't know if anybody has said this, but the line from Waterboy is, "Cut his (expletive) head off." It is not rip:" CraigersFurther proof that this chant did not come from The Waterboy.
feaguru (anonymous) says…
I am reminded of a little chant we used to yell at the beginning of the second half at our high school football games. With all our team spirit we would say, "In a very aggressive and violent manner remove the head from the implied collective representational figure which is our opponent which for some reason is involved in a equally violent sexually encounter." Yeah it in not as concise, but it did rase the intensity level in our team from kitten to roar.
auburnfan (anonymous) says…
Heaven forbid we chant something appropriate, or even not at all. At Auburn Games, they Chant "War Eagle" at the Kick off, at Alabama they chant "Roll Tide". How about an ounce of class from the student section at KU. All I know is I had to answer questions from my 6 year old at the games last year, and try to explain what the student section was saying and why it was wrong. Something I shouldn't have to do at a football game. But, then again, that is typical of selfish college age people, do what is fun and not take into any type of consideration what it is doing to others.
JackRipper (anonymous) says…
"But, then again, that is typical of selfish college age people, do what is fun and not take into any type of consideration what it is doing to others."Yeah, maybe if alumni could grow up and move on and not need the Monday morning water cooler bragging rights it would never be an issue because it would be a low budget affair like it was in the past and for the students. Seriously, are we to look at college sports in general and find the only thing obscene is what the students say. Really, dig deeper, dig into the roots of it all and find out where the real obscenity is at.
JackRipper (anonymous) says…
And maybe if you all hadn't been distracted by sports in general you would have been paying more attention to your adult obligations and being good citizens and not creating the disaster we are about to face in our economy. No, it was too much fun borrowing everywhere possible to play while leaving the politicians and investment people to play. Why shouldn't the students be obscene considering what their elders are about to leave them. Really in the big picture who gives a rats rear end about sports when you should have been worried about living like drunken sailors.
auburnfan (anonymous) says…
For some strange reason I don't think that the students using that phrase at kick-off is a way of expressing frustration over the countries economic situation. Maybe I am wrong, maybe the 10,000 KU students that attend the game, are simply going to express frustration over the economic condition that adults have caused.
JackRipper (anonymous) says…
No, that isn't what I am saying. Maybe the problems that are about to screw them and us are a bit more important to be worried about then what the students say at an event that should be for their entertainment instead of a bunch of adults who have adult responsibilities they should have been more concerned about.
dweezil222 (anonymous) says…
invictus (Anonymous) says: Personally I find the chant (not really chant) offensive and low class. But the student will have to voluntarily refrain from yelling it. You can't eject 10,000 students from the game.======================================Well, you could... if you're a fan of riotous mobs smashing windows and lighting things on fire, which is pretty much what would happen.
auburnfan (anonymous) says…
JackRipper--I understand now. And, I agree, there are much bigger problems in the world than what a bunch of college students say at kick-off of a football game. But, just like trying to fix other problems, I think we should try to fix this one too. It takes a start. Bottom line, I think the chant is classless, and isn't needed as a part of the game day.
JackRipper (anonymous) says…
There are many things that shouldn't be part of the game. Million dollar coaches and athletic directors, $30 million for athletic facilities when a science building is needed and apparently looking at what they did last year wasn't really needed anyway and could it be any more grotesque and un-thought out? 400 square yards of football fields that dominates that part of campus now and a building that doesn't blend into that area at all. What is more obscene and classless?
auburnfan (anonymous) says…
All good points, but I will also point out that the money donated for the football construction was donated for that purpose--football facilities. You won't get any arguement from me that academic areas of the campus are in need of upgrades and repair. But, if someone donates $30 million to the University, you use the money for what THEY want. If the football stadium was falling apart, and someone donated money to build a new library, then a library would be built, not a football field.
JackRipper (anonymous) says…
Come on auburnfan, you know as well as I do that they solicit for those funds. The Anderson's weren't just sitting out in California with $30million burning a hole in their pocket and decided that what KU needed is that hideous eyesore we have now. If the university was as active about pursuing funds for academics they wouldn't be trying to tack on a science building fee to their already growing faster then inflation tuition and asking the rich donors to help a little more aggressively like the sports people did. KU isn't obligated to do anything just because someone throws money at them and says build a shrine in my honor. Well at least in the old days, now with the boomers in charge money is the only thing that matters and any pretensions that there is any "class" is a joke!
JackRipper (anonymous) says…
And speaking of class, gosh nothing says class like a bunch of buffoons sitting in the endzone in recliners watching the game on TV so everybody can see they have more money than brains!
gogoplata (anonymous) says…
At least it is being handled in a reasonable way. Mangino is asking them to stop. Maybe they will, maybe not. I'd rather it not be a part of KU football but in the end it isn't hurting anyone.
cthulhu_4_president (anonymous) says…
JackRipper, the University doesn't solicit donations for the Athletic Department. Actually it's not even a department, it's called "The University of Kansas Athletics Corporation". It is a seperate corporation operating on campus! The revenue for the corporation comes from 3 places: the $40 per semester student fee (a bargain for the quality of our sports programs!), ticket sales (which are only gained from 2 sports, leaving about 15 more to be funded) and donations which are applied directly where the donor wants it. As painful as it is to realize, there is not that much extra money floating around the coroporation, relative to another corporation of comparable size. Almost none of KU's money is in that place. If a rich donor comes out of the woodworks and wants a science building to be built, then one will be built. And to answer your question: yes, the Andersons had $30mil burning a hole in their pocket and after meeting with various representitives of the corporation, they decided where they wanted their money to go.
missmagoo (anonymous) says…
it's not the 'f' word that i have a problem with.. it's the rest of the chant. rip his head off vs. rip his f'ing head off, to me, is a minor change. i've never heard this chant anywhere else or used by any other school, besides in that waterboy movie. but i do not remember this chant, or it wasn't loud enough, up until last year or two years ago. anyways, i agree with others, it is classless.as far as mangino goes, of course he curses like a sailor. he's a football coach! BUT... for example.. telling someone 'i hope you die' vs. 'i hope you f'ing die' is really not that different. one sounds more agressive than the other, but still, same concept. whether you curse like a sailor or not is irellevant. i admit i have a horrible mouth, but, again, it's not the f bomb that bothers me.on the contrary, over par, this is still a college football game. there will be drunk kids and adults, vulgarity, obsene shirts, etc. you should sit in the hawk zone, or on the opposite side from the students if you don't like it or want your children fully exposed to it. i take it you were one of those who brought your kids to the mass street celebration post national championship? just a guess.
JackRipper (anonymous) says…
cthulhu_4_president (Anonymous) says:I don't even know where to begin. First off, the university is here for academics, the sports thing started as something for entertainment for the students. If it turns into a multimillion dollar operation that requires paying the people who run it more then the chancellor and top academics and operates on State property something seems wrong. You say it is not part of yet it gets the use of very valuable land tax free, gets donations that are allowed to be written off by the donors, and can "tax" the students whether they go to the games or not and could just be here for the real purpose of getting an education. The whole reason the "corporation" has been pushed to this level is because two men's sports were cut in the late 90's because of revenue issues and the NCAA's realization how much money could be made off athletes who aren't even paid. Now that KU won big last year the money should be rolling in if that is the theory why more is spent on it so when are they bringing back those other two sports that were cut? If people want to put that much money into football and basketball move it off campus and stop the phony bit about it being about "student athletes". If people can make millions playing sports more power to them but do it in an environment where it is clear that it is about money and pay taxes accordingly.
TheOriginalCA (anonymous) says…
LooPerkins... Don't forget that KU can't even take the band to Ferot Field because misery fans of all ages throw golf balls, batteries, and bottles at them.
cthulhu_4_president (anonymous) says…
You make good points. The point of my last post, though was to inform you where the funds for the corporation actually come from, and to illustrate that it does not come from the University or it's students. The points your're making about the presence of such a lucrative corporation on campus are valid, but one could make the same argument about the food vendors and other independant corporations that exist on campus. The CEO of Pizza Hut probably makes more than the chancellor, yet we tolerate the presence of multiple pizza huts, and the students are taxed for them in the same form that they are taxed for athletics. Are we now making fast food a larger priority than academics? Of course not, but I respectfully ask of you: What is the difference? As to the "phony" bit about student athletes, I work everyday with said athletes and a majority of them are students first, and athletes second. 99.99% honestly came to KU to get a degree, and who may have needed help with funding that the corporation provides. I realize that media portrayal can make it seem otherwise with every negative story bringing much scrutiny to the practices of the corporation, but overall the corporation does great things to allow students to earn a degree that they may not have had a chance to get otherwise. I respect your opinion, and definatly see where you're coming from, but I ask you to please realize that the funcioning of the corporation is much different than popular media would have you believe.
cthulhu_4_president (anonymous) says…
I also just noticed that you seem to believe that Lew is paid by the University. That is not true. Lew is not an employee of the university, so he would not be paid by them.Also, please reference the story here http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2008/sep... which the student athlete population recorded a higher graduation rate than the general studen body did! Strong evidence of the academic committment of many student athletes.
manus_flexibilis (anonymous) says…
This ain't news, lets start Palin the wetlands better yet Obuilding the SLT! Just another hand me down pair of quitter socks, does big brother or big sister want their socks back? Especially if they have tire marks on them. Hell F***kin NO!
JackRipper (anonymous) says…
I'd say there is a lot of difference between even a Pizza Hut then the "corporation". I imagine the Union operates the Pizza Hut and only pays a francise fee to Pizza Hut and keep the profit at the Union which is used to provide services to the students. The "corporation" does receive funds for salaries for the AD, tax free use of State property, grounds keeping at university expense, use of the corporate jet (yes it is reimbursed but can any other "corporation" in Lawrence use it?), and yet where does the money go when they make it at the "corporation"? It's too bad that if students are really gifted academically that they would have to be essentially slaves, working for free rather then being able to come and just study. I think our demand in this country for more athletes will become less important as we try to figure out why we are educating engineers and scientist from other countries instead of the US and soon will be paying the price for that. The boomers are just to distracted by money and it looked pretty easy there for a while with the glamor pursuits and the life styles of the rich and famous and all the celebrity status being on TV just like American Idol I suppose. You'd think academics wouldn't have fallen for it all but guess not.
cthulhu_4_president (anonymous) says…
Also (sorry to take up 3 posts!) I belive the "funding issues" you referred to being responsible for the sports being cut was actually Title IX legislation, which had less to do with funding directly, and more to do with the equal presence of women's sports and funding to those. The two sports cannot be brought back. (By the way, what were they: swimming and diving? I can't remember).
JackRipper (anonymous) says…
cthulhu_4_president (Anonymous) says:"I also just noticed that you seem to believe that Lew is paid by the University. That is not true. Lew is not an employee of the university, so he would not be paid by them."You might want to do a little investigating on that one and then maybe the interesting mix of a "corporation" and university will start to become clear to you."in which the student athlete population recorded a higher graduation rate than the general studen body did! Strong evidence of the academic committment of many student athletes."Maybe you would like to explain what it is you do with the athletes, perhaps a paid tutor? Let's see, how many students get that. Using the general student population isn't that impressive anyway. That is the other problem with dumbing down education. Too many going to college and spending more money then they should for jobs that only require a juco degree. I imagine the student loan crises will be next on the list of loans supposedly backed by the gov.
JackRipper (anonymous) says…
cthulhu_4_president (Anonymous) says:Also (sorry to take up 3 posts!) I belive the "funding issues" you referred to being responsible for the sports being cut was actually Title IX legislation, which had less to do with funding directly, and more to do with the equal presence of women's sports and funding to those. The two sports cannot be brought back. (By the way, what were they: swimming and diving? I can't remember).Swimming and tennis. The problem was that we couldn't have them but that there wasn't enough money to fund the women's sports and all the men's sports so they had to cut the men's sports to make it equal. Now that the money should be there, in theory anyway, let's see them brought back otherwise this spend and spend more for athletics is really a bunch of bull.
cthulhu_4_president (anonymous) says…
You pose good questions, Jack. The funds you refer to (for the AD, groundkeeping, etc.) are also all made by donors, not KU (except for the fee discussed earlier)! As for the tax-free land, I am more than sure that the corporation reimburses KU in some way that neither of us are sure of for the land. And you're right, students are taxed for it regardless of whether they enjoy sports or not, but the same could be said for the Unions, Career Development Center, Center for Students with Disabilities, etc: we are taxed for them all at enrollment regardless of whether or not we use them. If we attack the athletics fee then, must we not tackle them all?As for your other question, (where does the $ go) when the Athletic corporation makes money, it goes to bonuses for the coaches and AD (which are very highly publicized and criticized), and then it goes to funding the 15 or so other collegiate sports who don't share the glamour of Football and Basketball! Throughout the year there are many non-revenue sports teams who must travel, have equipment, have proper facilities who do not share in the glamour of the more sensationalist programs. It's a great question you ask, and I wish more people would ask it and be receptive of the answer.I completely agree with your second paragraph. Athletes today have very little free time and are expected to maintain a rigorous athletic and academic schedule. However, your criticism extends far beyond the financial practices of this particular entity and into some heavy socio-economic issues around our collegiate educational system. I appreciate your discourse, thanks for making this a discussion and not a name-calling fest!
JackRipper (anonymous) says…
Please look into the salary deal. When you think about it the reason given most to push for successful sports programs is the publicity. If you are getting students to come here because of a winning sports teams why shouldn't we expect that the academics will be less then the athletes? That too is a large part of the problem, kids coming for the party and not the academics.
xbusguy (chris Ogle) says…
I am proud of KU.... so please change the chant....I want to remain proud of my school.
cthulhu_4_president (anonymous) says…
I definately will look into the salary deal, but I am also receptive to the facts if you would care to relate them.I do agree with your post. Publicity is a huge part of it, and I am not above saying that a restructuring of the relationship between University and athletics is not in order (I'm not that much of a lemming!) and that is one of the downsides of the corporation: it is a corporation, and as such it acts out of self-interest. The people in charge, legislators, the students, and the people with the $, though, continue to decide that it is a decent trade-off to make for entertaining sports that keep the alumni coming back and the students happy. Again, though, the criticism is extending far beyond the localized topic, and I don't feel that I have the expertise to comment.
mightyquin (anonymous) says…
I think having the coach ask the students to stop or change the chant is the best approach. It would be virtually impossible to force them to stop and would likely cause the students to come up with something even more crude and inappropriate.Some people like coaches seem to need to cuss to get their point across, others like my old high school coach good rip a guy apart and make him feel 1 inch tall without ever uttering a single profanity.
Made_in_China (Paul R. Getto) says…
"Since when did "free" speech require that others listen to obscene drivel?" ======= Good point, and I bet, since the stadium is not a public forum, 'free' speech is irrelevant as well. While impractical, University officials can remove anyone from the stadium if they choose to do so.
JOEHAWK (anonymous) says…
It's just plain tacky, Just like the "muck Fizzou" shirts. It was clever for about 30 seconds and then just becomes obscene and classless. Can we do better or are we just trailer trash like MU?
fascinating_person (anonymous) says…
tangential_reasoners_anonymous (Anonymous) says: "'Mangino at the Center:?!'Whoa, given the gravity of this situation,we have the makings of a black hole."I laughed out loud. Beautiful prose.
StirrrThePot (anonymous) says…
"Free Speech"Of course, it is everyone's right as an American to be an immature jack@ss and show the world how smart and clever they are for using the "f' word. There is also something about being a fan or a student fan that pretty much invalidates any intelligent behavior and good judgement. If they aren't doing it at the stadium, then they are doing it online on the message boards. Really, it is all pretty ridiculous. At least some people are trying to have some standards and I don't see why changing one chant is such a big deal. God forbid we have to behave ourselves a little and be considerate of others.
JackRipper (anonymous) says…
Gosh at this moment the market is at 9098 and you all don't seem to see what's coming. Really, show who the adults are and stop dwelling on a game played by kids and for kids. Get a life so you can move on as a successful alum and start worrying about the real problems.
Dejacrew423 (anonymous) says…
I know I dropped the F Bomb one time in front of my grandmother, the look on her face made me feel so ashamed and disrespectful that I haven't slipped up ever again. I've came close but the memory of that look is burnt in my mind forever. If you really want to get rid of the chant then why not have a Grandma's Get In Free game or make all the ushers grandmothers. (They need the part-time retirement money) A sea of those disappointed looks would end the chant real fast.
auburnfan (anonymous) says…
JackRipperI love your points, you are correct on almost every front, but this line of posts has to do with an issue at a KU Football game, not the Dow Industrials, not the Golbal Economy, not the Economic policies of the US. You are correct, we should be worrying about those things, and if you want your opinions on those issues heard, maybe you should find an article about the economy to post on, but the focus of this article is about the vulgar, immature, crude and un-necessary language used by KU Students during kick off. Economic problems, Football Facilities, Sports in general have nothing to do with that.
JackRipper (anonymous) says…
Ah but I see it all tying together. We didn't get to this point because one day kids decided to be vulgar?
auburnfan (anonymous) says…
JackRipper--You think students are being vulgar because the Dow Jones is down? I am just saying that the focus of the article--therefore the focus of the posts following the article--should revolve around the vulgarity and immaturity of the students at games. I don't think students are vulgar at games because of frustration over facilities, donors, or economic issues.
JackRipper (anonymous) says…
No but they learned from their boomer parents. What do you expect? The same people bring down the economy apparently didn't teach their kids well either.
auburnfan (anonymous) says…
So, bringing the economy down is the same as teaching our childred to curse in public?
JackRipper (anonymous) says…
Pretty much. Lack of values, self center lifestyle, pretty much has been all about what stage of life the boomers have been in but unfortunately for them it is all about to crash from their excesses right when they will need it for the retirement pay off. You certainly didn't hear their parents talking the way you do, heck how many times have you heard boomers swearing like that in public? More times then I care to remember.
chestergrande (anonymous) says…
I understand that there are many reasons for people to do what they do, say and wear certain things, and feel the need to justify it even if it is justification of their stance on something in which they have not even participated. Let's take the chant, as an example. The chant could be considered by some as a way for individuals to express how cool and clever they are. Who are we to judge one's reasoning for their expression-of-choice (or justification for it,) even if it is painfully obvious that many of these individuals sadly think they are far, far cooler and/or more clever than they actually are? Personally, I think the chant is neither cool nor clever in the slightest. I'll be honest I think it is really dumb. But I understand that, for me, the chant does not fit any personal need, so I may not be the best judge of how much something like this may mean to those I might consider less imaginative. Why should I feel able to criticize another's choice of vocal expression simply because I have chosen means I consider more "adult"? And, simply because I choose not to criticize does not mean the right to do so shouldn't exist; it also shouldn't be impermissible for fans to chant such an expression simply because many find it extremely lame and immature. I am sure there are those that find things I do (including but not limited to my decision to voice my opinion and/or sarcasm in this post) to be immature. I won't take your time in justifying my choice(s). This debate should be about feeling personal responsibility and pride. Well, also about means of expression, of course. Oh, and about being awesome. Telling someone not to chant the chant is not going to make them stop if they really believe it is "doing something" for themselves or others. I doubt trying to use sarcasm or reverse-psychology will work either. Maybe we should all lighten up a bit.
jkealing (Jonathan Kealing) says…
KU released the video it's hoping to use to persuade students to stop the chant. You can see it here:http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2008/oct/09/ku_sends_students_video_mangino_asking_end_explici/Jonathan KealingOnline editor
Danimal (anonymous) says…
Bottom line is that KU has no football traditions. Sure we wave the wheat but we do that at every sporting event. Every football specific tradition that is supposedly unique to KU, such as yelling "ka-boom!" when the kicker kicks the ball off, or jingling keys during kick-off is borrowed from some other school. In the case of those traditions, K State did it first. I think as some people suggested, yelling "Rock Chalk" or something would be a great idea. It's so Missouri, and unbelievably trashy to yell obscenities in public. It's a bunch of immature children reveling in the fact that they're away from mommy and daddy for the first time. I'm a current KU student, but I'm a non-trad. I thought this chant was disgusting and childish when I came here after spending five years in the Marines. Kick the kids out, even if you have to clear the whole student section, it's the only way they'll learn. Less carrots, more sticks.