LJWorld.com

Multidisciplinary (Anonymous) says…

Change 'em.
Now.

bearded_gnome (Anonymous) says…

instead of changing the bills, and forcing changes in all registers, bill change machines, vending machines, etc., it would be cheaper and more reliable to supply every blind person in america with an electronic bill reader. the article overlooks the position of the national federation of the blind, which opposes this move to change the bills.

Telluride (Anonymous) says…

I am so sick every everybody suing over everything. Use a debit card!!!! Get over it. Adapt on your own instead of the country adapting for you. Strong, rugged individuals are what made this country so great. Where all of those people gone. Quit whinning over everything!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus (Anonymous) says…

Yea, Telluride, why can't those blind people be just like everybody else? Maybe you should write them note explaining your well-reasoned complaint.

oldvet (Anonymous) says…

Is this why they have the braille dots on the ATMs in the drive-thru lane?

Maybe we should sue the automakers, too, and make them put braille dots on all of the controls in the car…

bearded_gnome (Anonymous) says…

telluride,
you are correct. the leading organization of the blind in this country opposes this precisely because of your argument. blind people have been coping with the bills for a very long time. and the solution is huge, expensive, unweildy, and needless.

typical boozo, invalidizes the blind. typical of the left to emphasize the weakness and need of a group instead of its strengths. typical.

bearded_gnome (Anonymous) says…

from
www.nfb.org
National Federation of the Blind
(410) 659-9314, ext. 2330
(410) 262-1281 (Cell)
cdanielsen@nfb.org

National Federation of the Blind Denounces Ruling
on Accessible Paper Money Lawsuit

Baltimore, Maryland (May 20, 2008): Today, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit upheld a ruling that could force a redesign of
U.S. paper currency so that blind people can distinguish denominations by touch.

National Federation of the Blind President, Dr. Marc Maurer, said: “Today’s ruling by the United States Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit
is profoundly misguided and may unintentionally do real harm to blind Americans. Hundreds of thousands of blind people use paper money every day without
difficulty. We hope that this ruling will not have the unintended consequence of reinforcing society’s misconception that blind people are unable to function
in the world as it currently is. Identifying items by touch (including currency) is convenient, but not essential to blind people being able to participate
fully in society. For a court to say that if we cannot identify it by touch, we can't use it is a fiction and a dangerous one. Millions of items that
cannot be identified by touch must be managed by the blind in business, industry, and education every day. We are successfully managing all of these endeavors,
and the court's ruling challenges our ability to do so without any supporting evidence.

If America really wants to improve opportunities for education and employment of the blind, then it should focus on providing Braille instruction to the
90 percent of blind children who are not getting it, effective training for the 70 percent of blind adults who are unemployed, and books for the approximately
300,000 people who are about to be locked out of the only library for the blind.”

###

About the National Federation of the Blind

With more than fifty thousand members, the National Federation of the Blind is the largest and most influential membership organization of blind people
in the United States. The NFB improves blind people’s lives through advocacy, education, research, technology, and programs encouraging independence and
self-confidence. It is the leading force in the blindness field today and the voice of the nation's blind. In January 2004 the NFB opened the National
Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute, the first research and training center in the United States for the blind led by the blind.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus (Anonymous) says…

I know it goes against your fantasy that every person in the world is John Wayne, BG, but everyone who is ever born needs help throughout their lives just to survive. Including blind people.

And if you had bothered to read the article, you would have noted that the court ruling didn't demand any particular remedy. If you or anyone else thinks the bill reading devices are a good solution, by all means, make it happen.

BABBOY (Anonymous) says…

Yes, the simpletons blame the lawsuit, but this makes perfect sense to me and I agree with what the court did. Watch a blind person try to pay for something. I am kind of surprised this was not addressed some time ago.

Tellurude, my guess is that you are NOT one of the strong willed adapting individuals you describe. To me, you sound like someone with little common sense that whines too much….

denak (Anonymous) says…

As a parent of a blind child and the daughter of two blind parents, I applaud this ruling. Of all the things that individuals who are blind have to deal with (job discrimination, lack of Braille education, housing discrimination) it isn't *the* most important thing but it is, in my opinon, a step that will help individuals who are visually impaired to become more self-sufficient and less at the mercy of unscrupolous individuals.

I know from first hand experience, that sighted individuals will try to rip a blind person off. I saw it growing up. People telling my parents that they only gave them a five dollars bill instead of 50 dollar bill.

My son is 16. He still believes that people are basically good. Which is a good thing to believe when you are 16, but I make him, time and time again, count his money, to not take the word of the teller. It makes him mad but I won't tell him what denomination the money is. I make him fold his money. He has to figure it out. It is hard but I know if I don't make him do it now, people will take advantage of him.

I may sound cynical but I know people took advantage of my parents and I know they will do it to my son.

So, making money more accessible to visually impaired people……something other countries already do..is in my opinion a step in the right direction so that individuals who are visually impaired will be more self-sufficient and less likely to be taken advantage of.

Dena

yellowrose (Anonymous) says…

Oldvet asked, “Is this why they have the braille dots on the ATM's in the drive-thru lane?” Yes. That lets a blind passenger maintain some of his or her privacy at the machine. They need money after business hours just like you do. Would you be absolutely comfortable telling someone else your pin number and what transaction you want to make? Could you be sure that that person would hand you the $100 you asked them to withdraw for you? They could hand you a hundred but, because you couldn't see what buttons they pushed after your pin was entered, you wouldn't know about the extra hundred that your driver transacted for him or herself, until your checks started bouncing like rubber. The pizza delivery guy may tell a blind person that he is giving them a $5 bill when in fact, he has handed out a $
1. Having money with clearly distinguishable ways to identify each bill would cut down on some of what I have just described but, This lawsuit is drawing nationwide negative attention toward blindness, as is demonstrated by some of what is already posted here. This battle over money will and is costing more money to fight on both sides than is necessary, and if the Council should prevail, the millions or possibly billions needed to carry out the changes that would be required would only bring more public resentment and animosity toward blind people. Most blind people I have incountered, whether from ACB (American Council of the Blind,) or NFB, (National Federation of the Blind,) want to fit into our society without drawing a lot of attention to their blindness. They want accessibility but with as little fan fair as possible. I do not always agree with our government officials but, this time, they've got it right. Blind people have adapted to the currency as it is from the time it became the country's standard until now. Schools for blind children and independent living centers teach the blind how to adapt to life without sight every day. Finding a way to tell which bill is a $5, which is a $1, or which one is the $20 is part of daily living. Each person finds a way that works best for him or her. If it isn't working for somebody, that person hasn't found their system or they are too comfortable with their dependence on someone else to keep track for them.

yellowrose (Anonymous) says…

Denak, you're right about the unscrupulousness of some sighted people. It happens in this city much more than I would have thought. I am blind. Aides that were “working for me” were the worst thieves. Food, money, jewelry, clothes, accessories, stereo equipment and my starter kit for my business have disappeared during my years in Lawrence. He needs to keep counting his money and watch out for those who are eager to help. Those whom you easily trust steal the most.

jonas (Anonymous) says…

bozo: Having met Gnome, I happen to know that your assumption of him disregarding the needs of the blind is extremely foolish.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus (Anonymous) says…

I only know BG from this website, and the person that is represented here has very little regard for anyone's needs.

Multidisciplinary (Anonymous) says…

yellowrose,
Your response to Denak was so right and to the point. Some (lots) of people go into the homecare/asst fields because they hope to have personal gain through any means.

I spoke up for the currency change, because of the simple fact it could make a sale go faster, and less noticable..meaning taking less time so that others didn't complain. Readers are great, but like most technology for the disabled ( smaller market=higher price) I thought they might be out of reach for many.

themiddlechild (Anonymous) says…

Make a change

Finding_Uranus (Anonymous) says…

$ $
^
___

Please mister please, don't play B17……………..

Sigmund (Anonymous) says…

jonas (Anonymous) says… “bozo: Having met Gnome, I happen to know that your assumption of him disregarding the needs of the blind is extremely foolish.”

Quite correct!

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus (Anonymous) says… “I only know BG from this website, and the person that is represented here has very little regard for anyone's needs.”

Nope, having read Gnomes comments you have made some very foolish assumptions based upon your prejudices.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus (Anonymous) says…

I could make the same assumptions about you, Sigmund, and they wouldn't be the slightest bit foolish.

bearded_gnome (Anonymous) says…

well, gee thanks sigmund and jonas.
boozo, you are indeed speaking from your far-left prejudices.

also, note above, I *quoted from today's press release* by the leading organization of the blind in this country! are they also deaf to the needs of the blind ? please forgive the pun, I just couldn't resist it!

actually bill readers are not so costly and can be very portable, reliable. that thanks to modern scanning and microelectronic tech. the national federation of the blind makes the point that if you require the revamping/replacement of all the bill-related machines in america, then it actually is much cheaper to supply each blind person with a bill reader!

***
and badboy, you haven't watched an independent blind person who has had some training in blindness coping skills.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus (Anonymous) says…

“actually bill readers are not so costly and can be very portable, reliable. that thanks to modern scanning and microelectronic tech.”

As far as I can see, there is nothing in the court ruling that precludes that as a remedy.

TopJayhawk (Anonymous) says…

If we changed everything to coin, we would actually save a lot of money. That said, I know that the blind guy at the Capitol in Topeka used to run the conscession stand. He worked in coin, or on the assumption that every bill he recieved was a “one” Everyone knew that if you gave him a five, it turned into a “one.”

cds (Anonymous) says…

gnome, most blind already have scanners to tell what bills are. And your right on, its projected to cost over 2 million just to change bills. The single most simple thing would be to use debit cards instead of paper, I can think of very very few places that don't accept them.

_______________________

Sigmund (Anonymous) says…

jonas (Anonymous) says… “bozo: Having met Gnome, I happen to know that your assumption of him disregarding the needs of the blind is extremely foolish.”

Quite correct!

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus (Anonymous) says… “I only know BG from this website, and the person that is represented here has very little regard for anyone's needs.”

Nope, having read Gnomes comments you have made some very foolish assumptions based upon your prejudices.

_______________________

I've never met Gnome, but from what little interaction with him on these blogs, I can tell you he's wrongly assumed that I'm a “greeniewiennie” just because I don't like Rush Limbaugh. Sorry gnome, even though I hate to admit it, I did vote for Bush last time. Just because someone doesn't like Rush, does NOT mean they are a left wing “nut” running around hugging trees and keeping the government from drilling into ANWR for a very small amount of oil.

jonas (Anonymous) says…

I'm not going to defend either gnome's comments or his assumptions. I have seen him, in my opinion, make quite a number of questionable posts, and I don't necessarily agree with his methods on a frequent basis, but to be honest I could care less. I see this board as containing no real purpose other than keeping its posters entertained (certainly that's my primary purpose whenever I'm posting), and if that is the way he keeps himself entertained then I guess that's the most important thing. If it breaks the forum code of conduct he can be removed, though personally I believe that removal is usually pretty pointless. (For one thing, they just make a different name and come back, so what's to prove other than the effective impotence of the moderators at truly controlling the board)

Anyway, if he offends you or you don't like his method of… . “conversation,” then don't read his posts and respond to them. There's plenty of threads at this point that I don't post on, because the topic content makes me angry and I don't post when I'm angry, because I've noticed over time that I'm much less effective that way.

Tanetti (Anonymous) says…

The reason for Braille on drive-up ATMs is that they use the same cover for *all* ATMs, rather than creating costly separate ones for walk-ups and drive-throughs.

I too am the child of blind parents, two of whom are members of the NFB (mom and stepdad) and one a member of the ACB (which sued the government in the first place), and although I don't know their individual stances on the issue, I agree that the blind are ripped off regularly. Just two weeks ago in Des Moines, my mother lost $10 because a cashier insisted that she gave her a $1, even though my mom had a sighted person with her who also said he saw her hand over a $10. She folds bills in a particular way but she must rely on a trusted sighted person to distinguish the bills in the first place. Yes, debit cards are one solution, but the blind person often still has to sign (often requiring sighted help to locate where to sign) or needs help to enter a PIN. Plus there are vending machines and other instances where a person may not want to pay that way. And then there's personal preference: I personally don't like to make a charge of $2 or $3. As the population ages and gets fatter (leading to diabetes, of which one complication is blindness), accommodating the blind will become a much more prevalent issue, so I suggest the Treasury figure out some way to do it. The European Union managed to find a way, even consulting with the blind when it designed the euro. Don't even get me started on the legally blind New Jersey governor who can't read Braille and seems to think he's sighted because he can kinda get by with extremely limited vision. He's hardly a model of capability, relying on that limited vision to get by. Blind people face unbelievable discrimination, most of it unprovable. Personally, I think the word “discriminatory” isn't quite right for the current money, but it certainly isn't fair either.

TopJayhawk: That vendor at the Capitol's behavior is inexcusable, if what you say is true. My blind stepfather is a vendor and has sighted employees.

jg (Anonymous) says…

In recent travels in New England we were very surprised at the number of places that don't take debit cards. Less of a problem around here.
It seems that the blind have plenty of challenges and relying on the honesty of others is a bad place to be……

Newcomb (Anonymous) says…

It's too bad the Sakaguwea (sp?) dollar coin wasn't very successful. The Euro coins of high value are very convenient and such a system would seemingly help solve this problem without requiring too many changes in vending machines, etc. Plus, as I understand it, they're cheaper to manufacture and last longer. We've already got the dollar coin. Throw in a $5 coin, maybe even a $10, and you're good to go.

denak (Anonymous) says…

“….Just how many blind drivers are there?…”

Apparently, Gina, quite a few of them. My son attends the Kansas State School for the Blind in KCK and he asked me a few days ago if he could take “Driver's Ed.”

After I stared at him like he was crazy for quite awhile he explained to me that they do, indeed, have a driving program. Most of it is designed to teach a visually impaired individual what to do in the event that they are a passenger and the driver passes out or incapacitated in some way. It teaches them what they need to do in order to get over to the side of the road.

My parents, who went to KSSB, in the 50's and 60's, didn't learn this. This is, I guess, something new.

He went on to tell me that there are a few students that are “visually impaired” that take regular Driver's Ed. The one thing that I do know is that there is a huge spectrum of what is considered visually impaired and blind, so even though it sound a little wierd even to me, who has grown up around blind people, apparently, it can be done.

Dena

bearded_gnome (Anonymous) says…

CDS,
I certainly don't recall you being, for example, one of the crazies calling for, wishing for, $10 a gallon gas to punish us americans, and if you thought I was referring to you, my recollection is not. sorry.

***
Denak, that is correct.

and, no, most blind people in the u.s. do not have bill readers. many may have reading scanners at home, read not portable, that double as bill readers, but this doesn't really help.

newcomb,
yes, that would help but still need to handle bills. otherwise, we'd have $50 coins? I don't think we're ready for that.

and, yes, Jonas and I do disaggree on many things but he is a great guy.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus (Anonymous) says…

Thanks for the lecture on the obvious, jonas. But I'll ignore whomever I want to, whenever I want to. I'll respond to whomever, whenever. And while I agree that this site is primarily for “entertainment,” you are mistaken if you think that's why every poster is here.

jonas (Anonymous) says…

bozo: Man, hostile aren't we? I know that other posters are here for other reasons, but I think they're deluding themselves if they think they are accomplishing any of those other goals. Take that however you want.

You are, of course, free to do whatever you want.

yellowhouse (Anonymous) says…

So the govt can print up more money…Its not like american dollar has any value anyway

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus (Anonymous) says…

” I know that other posters are here for other reasons, but I think they're deluding themselves if they think they are accomplishing any of those other goals.”

Thanks for repeating what I just said.

bearded_gnome (Anonymous) says…

wow,
Boozo needs a little estrogen or something.

Multidisciplinary (Anonymous) says…

Coins add weight to my already tiring purse.
And those little tie on coins bags that the pirates used will get lost under all our buldging american bellies!
;)

jonas (Anonymous) says…

To rise to the bait or not… . . nah.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus (Anonymous) says…

“To rise to the bait or not… . . nah.”

Ah, come on, jonah, I love it when you're patronizing.

jonas (Anonymous) says…

I'm sure you do, if you're cynical enough to read more or less kindly advice directed at another poster as patronizing, though I admit that looking up I didn't tag my post. Still, my return on investment in terms of hard entertainment is lower than the return that I would demand.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus (Anonymous) says…

I find your patronizing tone very entertaining, jonas.

jonas (Anonymous) says…

You're repeating yourself. Maybe you only find me patronizing because you behave like a child would.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus (Anonymous) says…

No, I find you patronizing because you're patronizing, but in a very childish but entertaining way.

bearded_gnome (Anonymous) says…

And those little tie on coins bags that the pirates used will get lost under all our buldging american bellies!
—multi

yes, but they look so cool.

***
regarding CDS' ref above, went back to the Irk blog, I never referred to him/her as a greeniewheenie, in response to his rush limbaugh comment. I simply said if he didn't like rush, don't listen.

***
Bonzo, p push the reset button, okay? you're cd's stuck.

bearded_gnome (Anonymous) says…

Jonas wasn't being condescending. I have been on the receiving end of that, and what Jonas wrote doesn't qualify.

beatrice (Anonymous) says…

“Anyway, if he offends you or you don't like his method of… . “conversation,” then don't read his posts and respond to them.”

What about responding because he offends? If we see someone spouting hateful things, I feel we should speak up about it … and I have read more hateful comments coming from bearded than from most, excluding those who have been banned.

Or maybe it is just his constant use of name-calling that I read as hateful.

On this money issue, however, bearded is correct. I guess even a broken watch is correct twice a day.

jonas (Anonymous) says…

Man oh man, this has almost reached the “I'm rubber and you're glue” stage hasn't it.

bea: As I said above, what I wrote was intended merely as friendly advice, I wouldn't presume to dictate to anyone on what they should do.

gnome: No defense necessary. At this point I've milked it for a good four or five points positively leaking petulance, so I can head out to the streets of Shanghai with an easy spirit.