just_another_bozo_on_this_bus (Anonymous) says…

“Whatever the make, a hybrid can always one-up its traditional counterpart on fuel efficiency.”

Is that really true? If a car is used primarily for highway commuting, unless it's a “plug-in” hybrid, won't a gas-only car do at least as well as a hybrid?

Speaking of plug-in electric vehicles, this is where small-scale solar and wind generation could have an immediate impact on energy sourcing, especially if there is net-metering. If homes and businesses have their own generation capacity, cars can be charged while they are parked for relatively long stretches of time.

bd (Anonymous) says…

I am a highway commuter and I have not found a good, comfortable vehicle that offers reasonable highway economy.
Hauling the family around in a prius especially on a long trip would be a major pain!
The hybrids are fine for towneys that run mainly in the city, but ,I put over 30k hyway miles on my vehicle every year.

It will be interesting to see how the auto industry will change over the comming years.

I remember what happened back in the 70's!

alm77 (Anonymous) says…

But the Prius isn't the only hybrid. According to the commercial the new Hybrid SUVs get the same gas milage of a traditional Honda. And now the new Honda Civics come in hybrid as well. I'd look at a Civic before a Prius.

bd (Anonymous) says…

Yes , and Toyota also has a Hybrid Hylander for about $35k
My brother-inlaw has a Honda hybrid and is not happy with it.
I heard that the batterys had a 70k mile lifespan, but I have not been able to confirm that yet.
If it is true, every two years I will be buying new expensive batteries!-not!

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus (Anonymous) says…

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CNW_Marketi…

“CNWMR's publication “From Dust to Dust” [1] claims that a Hummer is more efficient than a Prius, despite the fact that a Prius is one-third the weight of a hummer and gets between four and six times better mileage. CNWMR claims that their efficiencies are based on Priuses lasting only 109,000 miles whilst Hummers run for more than 300,000. Arguments against the claim call the methods of analysis that produced these figures questionable.[13][14][15]”

Seems a pretty dubious and skewed calculation to me, Marion.

jcstepmom28 (Anonymous) says…

I highly encourage everyone to slow down! i took that advice this weekend while running dog rescue transports down to Coffeyville KS and over to St Louis. By going 55 mph I nearly doubled my mileage and at top got 42 mpg. What do I drive? A 2006 Chevy HHR that was loaded with 4 dogs plus their crates and myself.

bd (Anonymous) says…

Gas rationing and 55mph speed limits!

Old times may be back!!!!!!

bearded_gnome (Anonymous) says…

from:
quietcars.nfb.org

National Federation of the Blind

Committee on Automobile and Pedestrian Safety/Quiet Cars

Welcome to the Quiet Cars webpage sponsored by the National Federation of the Blind (NFB). This page was created in response to concerns among pedestrians,
especially pedestrians who are blind, about the growing trend for automobile manufacturers to design extremely quiet vehicles. These vehicles pose a hazard
to pedestrians and cyclists, who need to be aware of approaching cars that are out of their line of sight. Children and seniors are likely to be most vulnerable.
Quiet vehicles are highly problematic for blind pedestrians, who depend on the sound emitted by cars in order to travel safely and independently.

We all benefit from a less noisy environment, and we applaud the efforts of the automotive industry to control noise pollution. However, we feel strongly
that the industry must take measures to insure the safety of blind and sighted pedestrians. We believe that vehicles can be designed to emit an inoffensive
sound that will give pedestrians the information they need. We call upon the automotive industry to work with the NFB and other concerned organizations
to develop a solution to the pedestrian-safety problems which quiet cars create.

bearded_gnome (Anonymous) says…

you greeniewheenies have contributed substantially to global famine and high food prices global/national; now, you're bringing cars that are hazardous to some peds and bikers!

law of unintended consequences; when will you stop pushing for such destructive changes?

bearded_gnome (Anonymous) says…

just proves: you really don't care about your fellow hmans. many of you think your fellow humans *need to be punished*! now, you're killing them and starving them.

self-centered self-righteous, anthropogenic global warming=religion (michael crichton).

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus (Anonymous) says…

Sorry, Marion, but I think it's much more likely that the batteries (which can be recycled) of a Prius will be replaced than the engine of a Hummer. Mostly because by the time that Hummer has 300,000 miles on it, gas/diesel will be approaching $10 a gallon.

Informed (Anonymous) says…

I thought about one of the hybrid SUVs at one point. But since my vehicle is paid off, it doesn't really make sense to start payments just to have a vehicle that makes other people feel good about what I drive.

yankeelady (Anonymous) says…

One of the previous posters pointed out that 55 mph saves fuel. However, I tried it on K-10 and almost got run over, by a big SUV. I too remember the 70's and the 55 mph speed limit, and while it does work, enforcement would be a huge problem.

Agnostick (Anonymous) says…

Halvorson, Bengt. “Prius Versus hummer: Exploding the Myth”
http://www.thecarconnection.com/Auto_New…

“No, The Hummer Actually Isn't More Energy Efficient Than A Prius”
http://www.betterworldclub.com/articles/…

Gleick, Peter H. “Hummer versus Prius: 'Dust to Dust' Report Misleads the Media and Public with Bad Science”
http://www.pacinst.org/topics/integrity_…

Agnostick
agnostick@excite.com
http://www.uscentrist.org
http://www.americanplan.org

cds (Anonymous) says…

Get a VW Jetta tdi, no expensive battery's to change, cost's 10k less and gets better fuel mileage than a Prius. 40 town 60 highway. The newest “clean burning” model comes out this summer.

sdinges (Anonymous) says…

I own a 2007 Honda Civic Hybrid and I'm very happy with it. It has the same highly rated reliability as the traditional Honda Civic, though it is a bit more expensive. I've heard that hybrids don't compare as well on highways, but since the Civic has great mileage anyway, it will always compare great, no matter where you're going. In the city, the gas-savings is quite noticeable compared to our non-hybrid vehicle.

I didn't have a very good experience at the local Lawrence Honda dealership, but I do love the car.

Esq2eB (Anonymous) says…

I own a 2007 Nissan Titan Crew Cab. It gets 14 MPG. I love it.

Agnostick (Anonymous) says…

Marion (Marion Lynn) says…

Check out these articles on hybrid battery replacement; the things that your Oh!: So Beloved Import Car Company doesn't want you to know!

Brock Yates on battery replecement:

http://www.hybridcars.com/economics/hidd…
________________________________________________

Well, this isn't really anything new about car companies. It could very well be that Toyota's “official” policy is to replace the entire battery pack, rather than just clean the corroded contacts, because their legal eagles have told them that it's better from a liability standpoint.

Good to know that Ray Molton was able to knock the estimated $6K-8K cost of battery replacement, down to $1,345 for a salvaged battery with clean connections. Craig Van Batenburg's quote sums up the importance of finding a good, reputable technician: “This is exactly why I am training indy techs to work on these cars. It is not a problem with the nickel metal hydride cells, but a corroded connection. This is common with any electrical connector on any part of any car. The dealerships don’t fix the connections. They replace the entire hybrid battery.”

I had a similar experience back in college. I was driving an old Chevy Caprice Classic at the time, and the window mechanism just stopped working one day (I can't remember if these were manual or power windows). I called my dad, and he says, “Just put cardboard over the half-open window, and we'll work on it when you drive home this weekend.”

It turned out to be a day-long adventure for both of us. We pulled the door panel and took apart the entire mechanism inside, and found the problem: a very small piece of plastic, like a clip, that held a pin or something in place. I don't remember the details, but the main thing was that we called several Chevy dealers in town, and all of them were willing to sell us this shrink-wrapped plastic package that contained the entire window mechanism for $80! We thought, “Stupid! We don't need everything—we just need this little piece of plastic!” Finally, we called the last dealer in the book, got the service manager on the phone. He puts down the phone, goes in back, does some rummaging… “Oh yeah, I have one of those right here. I think it's a different color than the one you have, but it should work.”

“I'll let you have it for 50 cents.”

Why not just give it to us? Probably paperwork, or the dealership had a “minimum cost” or something. Hey, we saved at least $79.50 when it was all done, I'm not about to look a gift mechanic in the mouth.

The bottom line is: Hybrid vehicles may not be the final step in automotive evolution, but they very well may be the next step. The dino-juice-powered internal combustion engine has served us well for almost 100 years. Time for golf in Florida.

—Ag

Mackadoo (Anonymous) says…

For the skeptics, here are some real numbers from the 2003 Honda Civic Hybrid I have owned for two years now:

- 42 mpg in town in the spring, summer and fall
- 37 mpg in town when it is below freezing outside
- 44 mpg driving 70 mph for extended periods of time
- 53 mpg driving 55 mph for any period of time

These numbers are the minimum mpg figures you can expect. And just by using some of the safe hyper-miling tricks you can improve these numbers easily. Additionally, my HCH has 115,000 miles on it and I've never replaced the battery. I bought it used, and it was the same price as a non-hybrid Civic of the same year and mileage.

There is NO reason to not look into buying a used hybrid if you are needing a new car.

screedposter (Anonymous) says…

This headline is B.S. Anyone knows that Hybrids are the least cost-effective. I always go with tea roses.

JerryStubbs (Anonymous) says…

Hybrids are the best for in-town, I think.

Basically you have a smaller engine that gets really good gas miliage, but is weak on pick-up, and boost it off the line
with an electric motor, which has great low-end torque.

Plus you get the electricity back when you slow down and it recharges the battery.

For just straight hiway, I would just prefer a small engine, even better a small diesel. You just pay more for the hybrid motor, and with no starts and stops it doesn't matter much.

I talked to a guy in Canada (he actually spoke English) and he had one of those new Smart cars with a 3-cylinder diesel, no hybrid assist. He got 61 mpg. I reckons yo could do that with a bigger car, too, on the Hiway, as long as it is a streamliner.

Moonbat (Anonymous) says…

I recently purchased an '08 Civic Hybrid and love it so far. On my current tank of gas, I've gone 250 miles (with half a tank left) and I'm getting 45 mpg! Plus, my insurance is cheaper, and I'll get an $1050 tax write-off this year. I agree that hybrid's were not a great, money saving purchase a year ago when gas prices were under $2.50, but with gas at $3.68 and rising, it was not a difficult sell for me.

And thanks to Agnostick for clearing up the Hummer vs. Prius B.S. The lengths that some people go to discredit anything that is seen as being even remotely environmentally friendly is amazing…and it's all political. I get the feeling the people that have criticized hybrids on this forum are doing so to keep up their conservative reputations.

Agnostick (Anonymous) says…

Moonbat (Anonymous) says…

And thanks to Agnostick for clearing up the Hummer vs. Prius B.S. The lengths that some people go to discredit anything that is seen as being even remotely environmentally friendly is amazing…and it's all political. I get the feeling the people that have criticized hybrids on this forum are doing so to keep up their conservative reputations.
___________________________________________

Which post are you referring to, specifically? Just curious…

Thanks! :)

—Ag

Smart Car…

http://www.smartusa.com/

Agnostick (Anonymous) says…

gypsynatalie, you might do better to stick to your less-than-scrupulous online scams and fighting-dog breeding.

“The Civic Sedan gets 35 mpg, the hybrid 50 mpg. If the average person drives 15,000 miles per year, then the savings is 128.57 gallons a year, or $424.28 a year (assuming gasoline at $3.30 per gallon).”

$3.30/gallon? That's so… “last month.”

http://kansasgasprices.com/

There's a good chance gasoline will be $5/gallon by Christmas. Even more savings by then.

Here's another of your “citations”:

“Assuming you drive 15,000 miles a year and gas averages $2.50 a gallon (we can hope), you'd be saving $391 a year on fuel. That means it would take you about eight years to break even.”

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Sav…

Hhhhmmmm… if it takes 8 years to break even with gas @ $2.50/gallon, that should mean 4 years to break even with $5/gallon fuel.

I have better things to do than clean your poopy diapers, Old Criminal.

Hybrid technology, as I write this, is probably not at 100% peak efficiency—which means there's room for improvement. The tired old dinosaur ICE vehicles can't get much more efficient than the Asian automakers already make them.

gypsynatalie, in many ways, you and your sad little heavily-spun articles are just like the old dinosaur vehicles you crave.

Old…

Tired….

and quickly running out of gas.

—Ag

beobachter (Anonymous) says…

bye , marion, hope they accept your offer. the forum will be better for your leaving. by the way, i searched the thread and can't find what you claim? wonder why?

Multidisciplinary (Anonymous) says…

I thought the post was to gypsynatalie.

beobachter (Anonymous) says…

she's his main squeeze, upsets him when she's called out as well

beobachter (Anonymous) says…

marion, can you spell paranoia? might check out your local mental health provider for some help.

Moonbat (Anonymous) says…

Back to the topic of the story…

Agnostick, to answer your question I was referring to your May 12, 3:04 pm post.

Marion, I do agree that hybrid SUVs do not make sense yet, because the fuel savings just don't seem to be all that much better than the gasoline version. I did look through some of your links, and from what I could tell they were mostly outdated. Yeah, it didn't make sense to buy a hybrid in 2005, when gas was less than $2.50/gal, but to use 3 year old articles to argue that all hybrids are a waste of money seems far fetched to me.

People that post things like bearded_gnome did above, going of on some tangent about the environmentalists causing all the world's problems…that's what really makes me ill. Regardless of whether or not you believe global warming is caused by humans and CO2 emissions…blah blah blah, you can't honestly tell me that you have a problem with fuel efficient cars.

beatrice (Anonymous) says…

Did bearded just say hybrids are bad because a blind person might walk in front of one, and then call people who use them to conserve gas “greenwheenies”?

You neocons are just getting weirder by the minute.

Hey BeardedGnome, did you see where your man John McCain just came out and said Global Warming is real and we have to do something about it? I guess you are going to have to start calling him John McGreenWheenie now, knowing how fond you are of calling people names.

Oh, and Barack Obama will be your next President. Knowing how much you will be upset at that just makes me smile.

And everyone else, quit picking on Marion. Don't you know he makes $1500 a day! As Cartman says, We should respect his authority!

bearded_gnome (Anonymous) says…

People that post things like bearded_gnome did above, going of on some tangent about the environmentalists causing all the world's problems…that's what
really makes me ill. Regardless of whether or not you believe global warming is caused by humans and CO2 emissions…blah blah blah, you can't honestly tell
me that you have a problem with fuel efficient cars.

—moonbat, aptly named

the citation I posted is real, very serious and describes a very real danger. there is legislation in the u.s. house right now about that. so, moonbat and bea, you can play your little games, but what I cited is unfortunately deadly real.

yes McCain spoke in favor of the anthropogenic global warming myth today. I have said before on here but apparently you have serious reading comprehension issues Bea: john McCain is not a conservative! he was nowhere near the top of the list for most of us republican primary voters. it was crossovers and independents in fl and nh that got him where he is. no, we aren't happy with him.

barry h. o'bama, his associations are drowning him. that is, for the general election. of course the demorat primary he is winning, because many of you moonbats actuallyagree with his domestic terrorist bomber buddy, and his bigoted antiamerican spiritual mentor whom he sat under for twenty years. but look at w.virginia? look at PA. the exit polls are not promising for o'bama. and btw, the other night your liberal chris matthews referred to him as o'bama so I've just been ahead of the curve. and remember, never say his middle name, even though we always refer to presidents with their middlenames. no, barry h. o'bama requires different rules.

bearded_gnome (Anonymous) says…

and, regarding the greeniewheenies and ethanol policies contributing to global hunger and increased food prices, there are legions of articles making these links in the past six months! if you go back to the “silent tsunami” article in this paper, april 23rd, you'll find many articles I and others posted on that topic. coincidentally, agnostick was proven completely a fraud by these many articles and he/she disappeared in shame from the thread post haste.

bearded_gnome (Anonymous) says…

furthermore, you crazies believing in anthropogenic global warming and other “green” craziness, aptly deserve the name “greeniewheenies.” on the railroad depot rebuild thread, some of the people like you are *anxious* for $10 per gallon gas to happen, to punish your fellow americans. that defines traitorous craziness!

beatrice (Anonymous) says…

“”john McCain is not a conservative! he was nowhere near the top of the list for most of us republican primary voters. it was crossovers and independents in fl and nh that got him where he is. no, we aren't happy with him.”

Well, actually, he was on the top of the list of “most Republicans,” hence his win. If it is Florida's “fault” then what sweet irony.

It is so nice to know how miserable you must be living with the realization that the neo-conservative movement has failed and that the best the Republicans can offer for some time to come is McGreenWheenie.

(Oh, I have a big smile on my face right now, just knowing how miserable you will be when even “McGreenWheenie” is beaten in November, Armagedon hasn't happened, and the only thing “Left Behind” are you neocons. Time to get used to it, so say it with me: President of the United States, Barack Hussein Obama — Hail to the Chief!)

And if you want $10 gallons of gas, then keep calling those who call for conservation “greenwheenies” and keep encouraging people to drive gas guzzling monster trucks and Hummers.

beatrice (Anonymous) says…

Marion said “handjob.”

That is no way for a community leader who makes $1500 a day to act!

Daytrader23 (Anonymous) says…

I save fuel by riding a bicycle, It only costs me about 2 dollars worth of fruits or veggies to fill up. Plus I have rock hard abs and buns of steel. Plus my medical insurance is cheaper. But I'm not totally green, with all the money I save I spend it on traveling around the world and I travel quite often.

bearded_gnome (Anonymous) says…

http://www.kare11.com/news/ts_article.as…

story from mn, first documented victim of quiet cars. it is real.

***
no, actually bea you are getting your info from the hate sites. the majority of votes in the primary were actually not for McCain. unfortunately, the conservative vote was split among several early on. later, huckabee/romney had it. even in later contests of the republican primary, McCain was still seeing %25-30 vote for other-than-mccain. mccain won by plurality, and the crossovers/independents voting in fl/nh are well documented. early states *without open primaries* McCain did not win.

***
as to names, greeniewheenie is pretty tame compared to: “bitter” by your barry h. o'bama—and that's why I have a faith and opposition to illegal immigration; racist; sexist. these have all been flung by your compatriots on the far left loony fringe.

as I pointed out, these 'greeniewheenies' want us to have to pay $10 per gallon, and apparently you are treasonously in agreement. so, you do hate your fellow americans and wish them punished.

bearded_gnome (Anonymous) says…

from the link above. may not be a blind child involved:

It was something that had never occurred to Jane Flannigan, until she got the call Sunday that her eight-year-old son had been hit by a car while biking with a friend.

Owen Erickson was not badly hurt, though he did end up on the hood of the car. But when the car's driver moved his Toyota Prius from the street to the curb, Flannigan noticed something. “I saw the car, but I could not hear anything,” she recalled about the hybrid vehicle which was operating on battery power at the time. “It is totally silent.”

That's when it dawned on Flannigan, Owen never heard the Prius before he cut in front of it. “Bikers, runners, anybody out on the street, I think it's a huge safety issue,” she said.

She's not the only one. Last month legislation was introduced in the U.S. House of Representatives that could eventually require hybrids to emit a minimum amount of noise.

It's a priority piece of legislation for the National Federation of the Blind, which believes Hybrids pose a real threat to those who rely on noise from cars to keep themselves safe.

snap_pop_no_crackle (Anonymous) says…

snap writes:

looks like marioni's staying his usual classy self.

BTW,

still

having

a

wonderful

internet

life

.

beatrice (Anonymous) says…

bearded, If I post a story about a kid who shot himself in the head with his dad's gun, are you going to agree that all dads should have their guns taken away?

Didn't think so, yet far more people are killed by handguns in the home every year than are blind individuals killed by hybrids.

Can a hybrid or electric car be made safer for others, including blind pedestrians? Yes. Adding a whistle or sound device of some sort would help. Nobody is saying that hybrids are perfect or that as a moving vehicle they don't have the potential to cause injury. Same can be said of bicycles. What people are saying is that they are fuel efficient. Just because you don't believe in global warming means everyone else should throw the baby out with the bath water.

And I get it, you hate Clinton, you hate Obama, and apparently you hate McCain, who you think has stolen the election from your conservative heroes. Got it — you hate.

And “bitter” isn't a name, it is an adjective, while “Greenwheenie” “demorat” “o'bama” (and on and on and on …) is name-calling. If still confused, ask a fifth grader to explain the difference.

Or, just grow the hell up.

beatrice (Anonymous) says…

Marion, shouldn't you be out spending the $1500 you made today?

Moonbat (Anonymous) says…

Marion:

“What is going on here is a panic-driven headlong rush to spend $25-50K on cars which “get good gas mileage” which is leading many people who realy cannot afford the payments into purchasing high dollar hybrids.”

People make bad decisions buying cars all the time, because they want the car with all the greatest features like heated leather seats, nice sound systems, navigation, etc. People made “headlong rushes” in the 90's to buy the latest and greats SUV so they could keep up with the Jones'. I'm guessing the majority of people who have payments they can't afford do not own hybrids, but rather own SUVs, sports cars or luxury cars. Just a guess though…no link or study to site.

As for the rest of that post, you seem to making a lot of assumptions about what would happen if the “doomsday” scenario were to occur. Actually, I find it amusing that you're even considering it, since I had the impression that you're not one of those “greenie weenie” doomsayers that the gnome is talking about. However, if we're going to hypothesize…I'm going to play along. When all of the gas guzzlers are repossessed, and people are looking for cheap transportation, all of the hybrid owners would unite to form a carpool service. People could still buy cheap SUVs, pick-ups, or large cars to use for errands, vacations, etc. However for their daily commute, people could save lots of money by carpooling with hybrid owners, and of course the hybrid owners could use the extra cash flow to help pay for their HUGE loans.

beatrice (Anonymous) says…

See what I mean about Bea, folks?

beobachter (Anonymous) says…

bea stick around, you're quickly learning what many of us have known for a long time. marion is overly impressed with himself and has real issues with those who don't agree with his superior knowledge. every community has one of these, you know the crazy uncle, who everyone tolerates and laughs at when he's not present. basically i think he's harmless, but does show some violent psychotic tendencies. don't let him identify your real name and location.

snap_pop_no_crackle (Anonymous) says…

snap writes:

Marion's been using the railroad metaphor for a week & some now. Pretty soon, he'll turn the page on the “Catchphrases for Unpleasant Older People” calendar and be off on something else.

It's always entertaining.