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Archive for Wednesday, May 7, 2008

T facing fight for survival

Sales tax vote could be one way to save system

May 7, 2008

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City leaders face tough decision on 'The T'

With rising gas prices, the city's bus service - 'The T' - will need an additional one million dollars to operate next year. Enlarge video

It became clearer Tuesday that the city's financially struggling public transit system is in a fight for its survival.

City commissioners at their weekly meeting generally agreed that voter approval of a new sales tax to fund public transportation is the most likely way to save the system, but stopped far short of approving a ballot issue for November and left many key details unanswered.

But just as important, commissioners also started talking about life without a public transit system.

"A vote on the T system, no matter how it is structured, is really an ultimatum vote," City Commissioner Mike Amyx said, meaning that a vote for a sales tax would preserve the T and a vote against a sales tax would lead to its demise.

No commissioner disagreed with that assessment. That's in part because only Commissioner Boog Highberger expressed any interest in raising property taxes - an act that doesn't take voter approval - to save the T. Comments by other commissioners made it clear that a property tax increase is highly unlikely to save the transit system, which is estimated to need an extra $1 million in funding to operate current service levels in 2009.

Amyx actually asked staff members for an estimate of how much money the city would free up for the 2009 budget if public transit operations were discontinued. The answer: About $1.3 million in a budget that is expected to be among the more challenging in recent memory.

"That is a question that has to be asked," Amyx said.

Ultimately, voters may be asked whether they would support a new sales tax to fund public transportation. A proposal by Commissioner Rob Chestnut calls for a 0.15 percent sales tax to fund transit operations. He's also calling for a separate 0.35 percent sales tax to fund street and infrastructure projects. Both sales tax questions would be on the November general election ballot, and both would require a separate vote.

Having separate votes for the sales tax issues was a point of contention among commissioners. Amyx and Highberger both have said they want one vote for both the infrastructure and transit sales tax.

Chestnut and Mayor Mike Dever both said they were still strongly leaning toward a stand-alone vote on the transit service.

"My desire on public transit is to allow the public to identify whether this is a priority," Dever said. "I feel like a direct question will get a direct response."

Commissioners ultimately decided to have staff members prepare a report outlining possible pros and cons related to having the votes combined or separate. Commissioners have until late September to decide whether to put sales tax issues on the November ballot.

Comments

offtotheright 5 years, 11 months ago

"If the city commissioners had any clue how many junior high and high school students use the bus to travel around town and spend money in the shops and cafes and theatres:"Seriously! Where do you think these students are getting their money? It is from their TAX paying parents! I'll pay for mine, you pay for yours!

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Pilgrim 5 years, 11 months ago

Sigmund (Anonymous) says:Like the 7.25 people on who ride the average bus? *****I believe the empTy's own statistics break down to .5 people per passenger mile.Yeah, THAT handful of people.

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Pilgrim 5 years, 11 months ago

Stain (Anonymous) says:This city commission has surpassed all my expectations for being short-sighted and pandering to a handful of people.*******No more so than the previous commission that approved the black hole known as the empTy. $3 million a year as a convenience for less than one percent of the population. Talk about "a handful of people."

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cool 5 years, 11 months ago

the third version of the o r e a d i n n design.a charmer, right ?http://oreadneighborhood.org/ONAoreadHot:see also: www.oreadinn.com

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cool 5 years, 11 months ago

how about some new hybrid-electric buses ?that will 'revive' the system !http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Vs6nHoQgi8

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cool 5 years, 11 months ago

ONA mission statement:The mission of the organization is to stabilize and maintain the Oread Neighborhood as a high-quality mixed-density residential neighborhood, both accommodating the need for student housing and preserving existing single-family housing and revitalizing the neighborhood's unique architectural, environmental and historical character. This is accomplished by encouraging and providing for the participation of residents and property owners in the maintenance, planning and development of the neighborhood.Web site - http://community.lawrence.com/orgs/info/OreadNeighborhoodOrganization

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cool 5 years, 11 months ago

does the Oread Neighborhood Assn support the T ?http://www.oreadneighborhood.org/

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cool 5 years, 11 months ago

TIF financing for a private hotel & condo project !but no money for the T ?see the new design for the O R E A D I N N -http://oreadneighborhood.org/ONAoreadHotelPhotoAlbum.shtmlsee also: www.oreadinn.com

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Sigmund 5 years, 11 months ago

Stain (Anonymous) says: "If the city commissioners had any clue how many junior high and high school students use the bus to travel around town and spend money in the shops and cafes and theatres:"Enough to justify $2,600,000 per year, year after year? My guess all those kids with all that money have alternative ways to get around.Stain (Anonymous) says: "This city commission has surpassed all my expectations for being short-sighted and pandering to a handful of people."Like the 7.25 people on who ride the average bus? Those handfull of people??Stain (Anonymous) says: "They seem to have plenty of money to support turning Lawrence into another Olathe, in other words destroying this Athens of the Midwest."JoCo has a bus system yet you still despise them? Exactly how much money does Athens waste per year on empty buses?

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Stain 5 years, 11 months ago

If the city commissioners had any clue how many junior high and high school students use the bus to travel around town and spend money in the shops and cafes and theatres...This city commission has surpassed all my expectations for being short-sighted and pandering to a handful of people.They seem to have plenty of money to support turning Lawrence into another Olathe, in other words destroying this Athens of the Midwest.

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just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 5 years, 11 months ago

"Rather it is a matter of looking down at people who are still drinking off the tit of the government and others because they have no ambition to get off their behinds and become productive members of society. They would rather tax everybody else to bring others down to their lazy level, rather than contribute to the community."So, what percentage of the population do your strawmen constitute?

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none2 5 years, 11 months ago

JackRipper (Anonymous) says:""There is a big difference between being a "big player" and simply not settling for burger-flipping level wages."See this is the problem also many of you with your over aggressive desire to make money to afford all your big toys look down on the guy flipping hamburgers. It's a job and it needs to be done and thanks to the stupid sprawling way we have developed a person doing that job might not be able to afford a car or would rather not have such a large percentage of their income going to that. But of course to you that person isn't driven enough. I think it would be nice since we have chosen to make it difficult to get around without a car that an other option is available. For the old, for those with handicaps, for those who don't want to buy and maintain a car for whatever reason they chose, and for those who want to stop adding all the junk to society."===========================Please tell me what big toys you think I own. What is this fettesh/obsession you have about size of things?It isn't a matter of looking down at people that flip burgers. Rather it is a matter of looking down at people who are still drinking off the tit of the government and others because they have no ambition to get off their behinds and become productive members of society. They would rather tax everybody else to bring others down to their lazy level, rather than contribute to the community. Our society has safety nets for those who truly are in need. If you don't believe me, go live in a 3rd world country for a while, and you'll see just how much better things are here (so far, fingers crossed) compared to there. However, when able bodied adults in this country would rather party, do drugs, or stay in low-waged dead end jobs, not try to go to school to better to themselves, then sorry I don't have much pity to give them.

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just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 5 years, 11 months ago

You know the old expression-- if the only tool you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.Similarly, the only transportation tools we have available are the extremely resource and energy intensive car/truck/roadway and airway systems and the industries that have been designed around them. So it's not surprising that many can't see anything but the "nails" they keep hammering away at.

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none2 5 years, 11 months ago

(continued)You want an alternative to a car, then get off your duff and walk or bike. You might find out that it is better for your health. Likewise, why not get a horse. Horses were used for hundreds of years as a means of transportation. If you absolutely HAVE to have a big bus, then get together with like minded individuals and buy your own em-T bus to ride around town.Likewise, it is absolutely ignorant to think that roads only serve individuals with cars. What about firetrucks? Will the T take firemen to a fire? What about emergency medical services vehicles, what about garbage vehicles? What about the trucks that bring food to stock the grocery stores, the clothing stores, etc. What about all those people who drive to Lawrence to spend money and see a KU event? Did these people, services, etc come in by helicopters, hot air balloons, bicycle, horse, or your precious T? Even if they came by Rail, do you think they went by these other alternatives from where the train stopped to where the final destination was? Try using your head: EVERYBODY benefits from roads that bring goods, services to everybody -- including someone as naive as you.

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none2 5 years, 11 months ago

JackRipper (Anonymous) says:"tisk tisk none2, you are talking to the wrong person about how government involvement is the problem, because you see it is because of government involvement that we have arrived at this point which I disagree with too. But I imagine unlike you I don't say oh I like it when the government does this but no way should it do that. Let's be consistent. You see if the government didn't come in and build the road anywhere the their favorite developer wanted them and create this wonderful sprawling burb system and for instance encourage people to do something stupid like live on the west side of Lawrence and commute to KC. Thank the government for making that bonehead move work and now the government is suppose to come in and build a new controversial road to make things even better for that bone headed move. But then with government involvement we created sprawling and really pedestrian unfriendly cities. Now we determine a persons worth by their ability to afford a vehicle and if you aren't worthy enough or don't chose to buy into that you are left to figure it out on your own. So my thought is the government started the ball rolling now they need to complete it. It is incomplete! Why should government involvement change life so you have to have a car not also provide an alternative? Don't give me the crap about it costs money and doesn't make a profit, neither does the road you drive on! To top it off we keep building new roads and aren't even taking care of the old ones!"==========================I cannot believe just how naive you are. There are many reasons why roads are built -- not just for surburbs The original purpose of the Interstate system was for military defense reasons during the cold war. We have our own Kansas born Eisenhower to thank for that. Even if we were to return to the old horse and buggy days, WHEELS turn better on smooth roads. Even the Romans had that much common sense. I suppose they were horrible because they allowed individual riders (one rider per horse/chariot) to use their roads...(continued)

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TopJayhawk 5 years, 11 months ago

Remember, the concept of self-actualization as written by Dr. Maslow, happens at differant levels for differant people. It is a sign of elitest insecurity to judge someone by the automobile, or the bicycle that they drive.

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Pilgrim 5 years, 11 months ago

JackRipper (Anonymous) says:I think it would be nice since we have chosen to make it difficult to get around without a car that an other option is available. For the old, for those with handicaps, for those who don't want to buy and maintain a car for whatever reason they chose, and for those who want to stop adding all the junk to society.*******Done, done, and done, long ago. They're called taxi cabs, and they're operated by private entrepreneurs, so their cost-benefit ratio to the taxpayers is zero.

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JackRipper 5 years, 11 months ago

"There is a big difference between being a "big player" and simply not settling for burger-flipping level wages."See this is the problem also many of you with your over aggressive desire to make money to afford all your big toys look down on the guy flipping hamburgers. It's a job and it needs to be done and thanks to the stupid sprawling way we have developed a person doing that job might not be able to afford a car or would rather not have such a large percentage of their income going to that. But of course to you that person isn't driven enough. I think it would be nice since we have chosen to make it difficult to get around without a car that an other option is available. For the old, for those with handicaps, for those who don't want to buy and maintain a car for whatever reason they chose, and for those who want to stop adding all the junk to society.

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Pilgrim 5 years, 11 months ago

Using the empTy's own figures, it costs the taxpayers of Lawrence about $3 million per year to operate (combined local and federal tax dollars; they're all ours, remember). That breaks down to about $7 per rider per one-way trip. We're spending $3 million as a convenience for less than one percent of the population. That's a cost-benefit ratio that is indefensible.Dump the empTy! Spend that money on fixing the streets and sidewalks.

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cool 5 years, 11 months ago

maybe in addition to the T and KUthe new Oread Inn could also link on some routes to provide shuttle bus services ?www.oreadinn.com

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JackRipper 5 years, 11 months ago

tisk tisk none2, you are talking to the wrong person about how government involvement is the problem, because you see it is because of government involvement that we have arrived at this point which I disagree with too. But I imagine unlike you I don't say oh I like it when the government does this but no way should it do that. Let's be consistent. You see if the government didn't come in and build the road anywhere the their favorite developer wanted them and create this wonderful sprawling burb system and for instance encourage people to do something stupid like live on the west side of Lawrence and commute to KC. Thank the government for making that bonehead move work and now the government is suppose to come in and build a new controversial road to make things even better for that bone headed move. But then with government involvement we created sprawling and really pedestrian unfriendly cities. Now we determine a persons worth by their ability to afford a vehicle and if you aren't worthy enough or don't chose to buy into that you are left to figure it out on your own. So my thought is the government started the ball rolling now they need to complete it. It is incomplete! Why should government involvement change life so you have to have a car not also provide an alternative? Don't give me the crap about it costs money and doesn't make a profit, neither does the road you drive on! To top it off we keep building new roads and aren't even taking care of the old ones!

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Stain 5 years, 11 months ago

Rising fuel prices make public transportation more important than ever. It is unbelievable how short-sighted this city commission is. Spend years to build up the T, and after success that other municipalities are jealous of, shut it down because they would rather support developers.

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none2 5 years, 11 months ago

(continued) Likewise, they needed to ask WHY the other alternatives were not acceptable. Why couldn't public transportation have been done by a private group instead of city government? Instead all they did is invent another monstrous governmental program for all of us to pay for from now on. Plus it isn't just a governmental offering for the community anymore, it has now been elevated to a supposed "necessity". In that vein, why not make EVERYTHING a necessity that only the government is qualified to provide. We all need communication too. Perhaps the city should start offering land line phones and/or wireless phones because people need to be able to call 911. Perhaps the city should offer Cable TV and internet access so that residents stay informed. FreeNet isn't truly a valid option because we know that non-profit private organizations are always inferior to the wonderfulness of government largess. Plus while your at it, TP and trash bags should be made a necessity too. All residents of Lawrence should be ENTITLED to all this "stuff" at tax payers expense.

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none2 5 years, 11 months ago

(continued)3) "If you are such a big player in the business world I'd think you could afford any kind of fee, but shoot maybe things are tight now that driving that macho SUV is cutting deep in the wallet." There is a big difference between being a "big player" and simply not settling for burger-flipping level wages. As to "fee", my EXAMPLE was for someone trying out for a job. Would such a person already have MEMBERSHIP to a place that they aren't even employed at yet? Also, you may dream all you want about some macho SUV that you think I have. Fact is, I don't own a SUV let alone whatever you consider a macho one. Sorry that my vehicle size and its machismo level wasn't large enough for your arguing fantasies. 3) "If you'd start taking the bus instead of driving by it and telling us how empty it is maybe we could start getting more control over this problem but sounds like we are a long way from common sense coming back in style in this country." Taking the em-T would be like driving the bridge to no where. It is just something that looks pretty and impressive for those who wanted such a status symbol for Lawrence. When in actuality neither should ever have existed. Aside from being a symbol, the em-T is just another thing created for appearances for the uppity pseudo-intellectuals who think it makes Lawrence look so chic like the big cities and Europe. Personally, I think rickshaws would have added a more personal touch for those people.If T fanatics in Lawrence were really concerned about transportation, they would address the reasons of WHY people travel: 1) Why there are so few decent jobs around Lawrence. 2) Why more employers don't push to move more jobs into telecommuting opportunities. 3) Why even KU doesn't offer more teleconferencing courses as opposed to stacking people in buildings and rooms at the Lawrence & Edwards campuses. This is jut to name a few areas of questioning.Likewise, the fanatics should have brought back the white bike program that Lawrence used to have. (continued)

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none2 5 years, 11 months ago

JackRipper (Anonymous) says:"Well none2 I looked for that mouse you were talking about but think I already caught them all this winter.So your impressive corporations don't have showers? Man, that is weak, I just read the other day that the average salary for the triathlon athletes coming to town next month is $161,000. Sounds to me like people that have more of a business presence then you. Go looking for a job with them and they might be sickened by someone breaking a sweat walking a couple of blocks. If you are such a big player in the business world I'd think you could afford any kind of fee, but shoot maybe things are tight now that driving that macho SUV is cutting deep in the wallet.Doesn't matter where we buy the oil, the price is set base on the total of it all. Didn't you notice that the price went up even though there hasn't been anything serious going ons in Canada or Mexico to cut their output to us, oh wait, except for the dollar dropping like crazy because of all our high living on non existing money. Funny thing is we had this whipped a long time ago but all you smart people who decided commuting in SUV's was a smart move seemed to have run the price up again. If you'd start taking the bus instead of driving by it and telling us how empty it is maybe we could start getting more control over this problem but sounds like we are a long way from common sense coming back in style in this country.Well time to go back the van, down by the river."==================================================Silly Charlie, you should learn to read before you type. Perhaps then you would have something worth stating:1) I never said anything about "impressive corporations not having showers". I said not all do, and some that do require MEMBERSHIP before you can use them. Can you comprehend that distinction?2) "Go looking for a job with them and they might be sickened by someone breaking a sweat walking a couple of blocks." Obviously you haven't been reading maps for a very long time. If you refer back to the JO map, you'll see that it is more than a "few blocks" in my example from JCCC or Edwards Campus to the Sprint campus. Of course being stuck in fortress Lawrence, I guess I shouldn't expect you to comprehend a map of anything outside of Lawrence.(continued)

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TopJayhawk 5 years, 11 months ago

Samething in Topeka. Downtown in some areas, you can still see where there were or are still rails in the middle of brick streets.

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vega 5 years, 11 months ago

Car owners should pay for the Lawrence roads repair, tax each car owned according to its size (SUVs and trucks more than smaller cars), not the pedestrians and bike riders. As for the T: great idea but some routes are not quite logical and some schedules are bad (especially no.8), Yes they are empty sometimes, but in the morning and evening peak hours that is not so, so they should operate in greater frequency during the rush hours (every 10 min.) and less often in between, etc. I am thinking of using it on a more regular basis after filling 2/3 of my tank for $40 today. And what about schoollkids and old people who CANNOT drive yet or anymore. What about the families that I know who have 1 car, both parents working and one of them HAS to use T to get to their job. I am not talking about homeless people here.Lawrence even had street cars once upon a time, and some very old people told me you also could hop on the train and get to Topeka or KC in a short time. What was wrong with that? "Sunday,September 19, 1909, the electric streetcars made their debut in Lawrence. The Journal / World wrote: "A crowd of several hundred people "yelled and cheered themselves hoarse" as they watched the first electric streetcars jolt south on Massachusetts Street." The event was billed as being "the beginning of a new and greater town." The first run took its passengers from 7th and Massachusetts Street to about where 24th Street is today. There was a loop for the car to turn around and head back. By 1910, three routes carried riders to almost every corner of town. Three cars traveled the main line, which covered Massachusetts Street and took passengers to East Lawrence. Two cars made a run to Kansas University, which started at 8th and Massachusetts, went around campus and return by way of Tennessee Street. One car traveled to 4th and Indiana and back the same way.By 1916, the line had been extended into North Lawrence. The townspeople came to depend upon the trolley for transportation. However, they also became a source of summer fun. On hot evenings people would ride them to take advantage of the cool breeze coming in the open cars. Elfrede Fischer Rowe remembered: "There was always a breeze on the hill and when the car left the Robinson Gymnasium switchover and headed south, you coasted along with what seemed like wild abandon.""http://history.lawrence.com/res/resource/144

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TopJayhawk 5 years, 11 months ago

You could extend the track a mere fifteen miles from Manhattan, you would take in Junction City and Ft Riley. theres another 100,000, and growing.

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TopJayhawk 5 years, 11 months ago

A bigger system such as I propose would not be a fix all for everyone. But it could certainly make a dent in the traffic, the need for bigger and more roads, and the need to repair as often. It would lower demand for gas in the area, could put downward pressure on gasoline, and help with our dependence of foreign oil.. If you are trying to think how to fix things in the future, you might as well think big.

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Sigmund 5 years, 11 months ago

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus (Anonymous) says: "20 cents a day would do wonders, Sigmund, and would bankrupt no one."Lets do that math. 20 cents a day is $14.60 per year per person. $14.60 per year from 80,000 residents is $1,168,000 per year. Taking $1,168,000 out of the local economy by increasing taxes will probably not bankrupt anyone (assuming a camel with unlimited strength and a limited amount of straw), but still it is throwing good money after bad and at least when we spend that $1,168,000 with local businesses downtown we get something of equal value in return for our money. But cities, like ex mayors, can and do go bankrupt if they continue to waste their limited resources. The "empTy" is a economic drag on both the City of Lawrence and the private economy year after year after year and there are other priorities for this City. The "empTy" is already a huge bargain for the riders and still it is barely used. When you have a bargain like this ($8.00 in value for less than a buck) and still is so relatively ignored there is only one conclusion, there isn't enough demand to continue offering at the current cost structure. In fact I believe that if you offered it for free and it would barely increase current ridership. It just isn't useful to a shockingly large number of citizens no matter how cheap it gets. We have other uses for that money that more people find of greater value, make your own list. But if you still feel strongly that the demand is there, then get that additional $1,168,000 from the 388,325 riders by raising the fare by $3.00 per ride. It would still be a bargain and have no impact on the City budget nor on local businesses. If MV Transportation can design a system that can support that fare increase I'll support our current level of funding.

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just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 5 years, 11 months ago

20 cents a day would do wonders, Sigmund, and would bankrupt no one. Those who would find it hardest to pay that 20 cents are the ones who need the T the most. For everyone else, reluctance to pay is nothing but a sign of sheer pettiness.

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JackRipper 5 years, 11 months ago

Well none2 I looked for that mouse you were talking about but think I already caught them all this winter.So your impressive corporations don't have showers? Man, that is weak, I just read the other day that the average salary for the triathlon athletes coming to town next month is $161,000. Sounds to me like people that have more of a business presence then you. Go looking for a job with them and they might be sickened by someone breaking a sweat walking a couple of blocks. If you are such a big player in the business world I'd think you could afford any kind of fee, but shoot maybe things are tight now that driving that macho SUV is cutting deep in the wallet.Doesn't matter where we buy the oil, the price is set base on the total of it all. Didn't you notice that the price went up even though there hasn't been anything serious going ons in Canada or Mexico to cut their output to us, oh wait, except for the dollar dropping like crazy because of all our high living on non existing money. Funny thing is we had this whipped a long time ago but all you smart people who decided commuting in SUV's was a smart move seemed to have run the price up again. If you'd start taking the bus instead of driving by it and telling us how empty it is maybe we could start getting more control over this problem but sounds like we are a long way from common sense coming back in style in this country.Well time to go back the van, down by the river.

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Sigmund 5 years, 11 months ago

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus (Anonymous) says:"If we want to make the T work, we don't need smaller buses or fewer of them. We need more buses, better routing, and a complete merger with the KU bus system."Typical Bozo, more and bigger of what already has already failed is the answer with absolutely no idea of where the money will come from. With the "more and bigger" option what would Bozo cut and who would he tax? You want "more and bigger," fine then cut all the city departments budgets across the board and layoff employees (excepting police, fire, and other first responders) and I will consider the plan. But every dollar of increased taxes is a dollar less in the local economy to spend at the local businesses you supposedly support. Raising taxes in a flat economy is disastrous at the very least. Ask your buddy the ex-mayor and now bankrupt grocery clerk about fiscal discipline. If he has learned anything he will tell you with fiscal discipline is better to impose it on yourself than have it imposed on you by your creditors.

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offtotheright 5 years, 11 months ago

Boog..i mean Bozo has no response!

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usesomesense 5 years, 11 months ago

"We could be paying the first $5.00 of a cab fare for each of them and it would give them better service and cost us $700,000 less per year. Not to mention being easier on the environment"This is a very interesting statement.I wonder what the ridership level really is and the cost associated.I wonder if the Federal funds could be used with a subsidized taxi system (as public transit) - even as an ancillary service.Basic bus routes could be used in the areas of highest volume (if there are any). If you're destination was more remote you would take the bus to the taxi terminal and be carted off to where you needed to go.The current reality is that the 'T' is probably creating far more pollution and using far more fuel than it is saving.

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just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 5 years, 11 months ago

I've recently ridden the T when the regular larger bus was out of service, and one of the smaller buses they use for paratransit (and like the original smaller ones) was used. Both times, every one of the 10 or so seats was taken for nearly the entire length of my trip.If we want to make the T work, we don't need smaller buses or fewer of them. We need more buses, better routing, and a complete merger with the KU bus system.

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usesomesense 5 years, 11 months ago

The 'MT' as we have always called it had some poor decisions made early on.When the 'T' was first started it was all small buses - probably less than half the size of the giant 'Metropolitan Transit' style buses we have now. Those buses were on order and the small ones were just 'temporary'.These smaller buses would have likely been far more than adequate as well as far more fuel efficient.Secondly, it was decided that the 'T' would not have any paid advertisements on them. Now, I'm not a big fan of billboards, but we have to be practical here. If we have 20 buses with 3 signs apiece on them for say $300 a month each that comes out to $216,000 a year.If bus services were coordinated with KU - and KU eliminated most on campus parking except for staff and service personnel and used the bus system as campus shuttles those costs could be shared and campus could have far better traffic control (pedestrian traffic included).The reality is that public transportation is a great thing - but it has to be practical for everyone. Rising fuel costs should effect 'T' riders - and fees should reflect that. It doesn't make the 'T' any less of a bargain (except compared to walking or riding your bike). Routes have to be evaluated - I work in the Northwest part of town and the 'MT' stops there several times a day and nobody gets on or off except the driver to take a pee.There is no reason to maintain the 'T' at it's current level of service. We need fewer, smaller buses, higher fees for riders and advertising to offset operating costs.

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Multidisciplinary 5 years, 11 months ago

Ragingbear (Anonymous) says: Just don't build 2 roundabouts. Problem solved.Those things cost a half million a pop.-------------I expected to see an article about a proposed roundabout at Gateway and 6th by now.____toe (Anonymous) says: Does anyone use pogo sticks any more?---------Yes, They Do!Watch Unbeatable Banzuke on channel 122 (G4).Pogo sticks on a nearly impossible course are one of the challenges. Unicycles, stilts, husbands carrying wives in wheelbarrows, walking on hands, etc.Also saw Ninja Warrior for the first time. It too is a challenge course competition.Amazing feats by people who like to appear happy and working towards personal perfection.And the camera doesn't gloat on injury, like American TV does, stretching each contestant's run out. These shows have new contestants coming on immediately after the end of a run. On an American show, there might be 4-5 contestants. In the same amount of time, these shows have close to 20 sometimes.And the contestants aren't all jocks/body builders. They have old men, previous title holders, 12 yr olds, and housewives all together!

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hawkperchedatriverfront 5 years, 11 months ago

Why should we vote to fund something we did not vote to create?The T needs a new director with guts. Shake up the route alignments. Raise the fare. The city needs to stop giving money(our money)to the Open Shelter to purchase bus passes for the T. How dumb can that be? Maybe the city would like to give each taxpayer some money to pay their taxes to the city. I cannot believe how stupid this commission. and dumb is dumber than dumb.

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toe 5 years, 11 months ago

Does anyone use pogo sticks any more?

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Sigmund 5 years, 11 months ago

classclown (Anonymous) says: "Tie the bus system in with the SLT 32nd street route. Impose "x" amount of sales tax to fund the city bus system and the building of the SLT along the 32nd street route"Spoken like a person who knows the "empTy" could never stand alone and that the SLT is very popular. BTW, nobody is or should be talking about getting rid of the paratransit service that the city receives federal funds for and ends up wasting on the "empTy."

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cool 5 years, 11 months ago

read the article about the T in the current Lawrencian.

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classclown 5 years, 11 months ago

Tie the bus system in with the SLT 32nd street route. "Impose "x" amount of sales tax to fund the city bus system and the building of the SLT along the 32nd street route"YeaNayAll or nothing. Could prove interesting.

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Sigmund 5 years, 11 months ago

Snowgurl0 (Anonymous) says: "If you look at the 2007 report, the T provided 388,325 one-way trips, that doesn't include the paratransit service. And the ridership has consistently gone up. So anyone who believes that no one rides the T is mistaken."388,325 riders per year divided by 365 days is 1064 riders a day, 1064 riders per day divided by 7 routes (7 and 8 are split routes) and that is 151 riders per route per day, 151 riders per route per day divided by 21 scheduled buses per route per day and we get a whopping 7.25 riders per day per route per scheduled bus. I call that virtually "empTy" and a waste of 2.5 million dollars every year in corporate welfare for MV Transportation. Let s not even begin to talk about the polution and the waste of fossil fuels. As godot points out each ride costs taxpayers $7.00 and the rider less than a dollar. It is obvious, even at a bargain prices of less than a dollar for something that costs $8.00 to provide that virtually nobody values the bus as a transportation option in Lawrence, KS. We could be paying the first $5.00 of a cab fare for each of them and it would give them better service and cost us $700,000 less per year. Not to mention being easier on the environment.

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bunnyhawk 5 years, 11 months ago

With current energy concerns, how can we not be scrambling to fund public transportation????? Cuz we're all whores to the oil companies and the auto manufacturers! Wake up!!!!!

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Godot 5 years, 11 months ago

2.8 million divided by 388,325: that is $7.21 per one way. Raise the cost of a ride to $7.00. Still cheaper than owning a car.

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none2 5 years, 11 months ago

JackRipper (Anonymous) says:"none2 it isn't rocket science and the k-10 is just part of a larger bus system the JOCO has. Something tells me if you are trying to prove you are smart enough for a job at Sprint that figuring out how to use the bus should be a pretty good indicator of your smarts. And why are we talking about the job interview, how about the daily commute to job? And besides many of those "professional" places have showers and whatever else if you really do work up a sweat walking a few blocks. Sounds like just a bunch of excuses to justify not making changes. People fighting in Iraq are doing their part can't you do anything?"=========================Time to come out of your fortress and try to learn... 1) It is obvious that the K-10 is just part of a larger bus system. If you go back to my post there is a URL (Uniformed Resource Locator). It is the text that starts with "http:". You need to find your mouse and use the LEFT button to click on the text. That will cause it to take you to another location on the world wide web. That other location will display a map of ALL the JO routes that one might want to know about. If you see all the pretty colors, note that each color represents a different bus route. 2) Secondly many places do NOT have showers. Furthermore, many that do have such showers require membership. Remember this is the REAL world outside of fortress Lawrence. You aren't necessarily going to be able find a free recreation center and use their showers. If you want a job at a record store, you can keep the piercings and grunge look, but in the real world outside they need you to be clean and well groomed and on time. 3) I fail to see what this has to do with the soldiers in Iraq. Have we gotten one barrel of oil from Iraq? I think you have forgotten that the majority of oil bound for the USA comes from places such as Canada, Mexico, Venezuela. Perhaps you are suggesting that we direct our military to now invade Canada & Mexico and eventually Venezuela to save the em-T?

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Snowgurl0 5 years, 11 months ago

none2 is right: with so many sprawling communities, it does make it difficult to have an efficient transportation system. If you look at the 2007 report, the T provided 388,325 one-way trips, that doesn't include the paratransit service. And the ridership has consistently gone up. So anyone who believes that no one rides the T is mistaken.http://www.lawrencetransit.org/news/docs/TransitAnnualReport2007_web.pdfAll of these reports are public so it wouldn't hurt to do a little reading before deciding that it's a waste of money and no one rides it. How does anyone even know that it's not being ridden? By driving by and glancing in the window? Gimme a break!

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JackRipper 5 years, 11 months ago

none2 it isn't rocket science and the k-10 is just part of a larger bus system the JOCO has. Something tells me if you are trying to prove you are smart enough for a job at Sprint that figuring out how to use the bus should be a pretty good indicator of your smarts. And why are we talking about the job interview, how about the daily commute to job? And besides many of those "professional" places have showers and whatever else if you really do work up a sweat walking a few blocks. Sounds like just a bunch of excuses to justify not making changes. People fighting in Iraq are doing their part can't you do anything?

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none2 5 years, 11 months ago

TopJayhawk (Anonymous) says:"I think you would have to make if practicle for use. Eg. Trains every 10-15 minutes. Limited stops for time pruposes. Route it to go by Universities, major employment centers Sprint Center and sports complex in KC. Shopping areas like the plaza and Legends. etc..."====================The problem you haven't really come to terms with is these towns & cities haven't been build with one place in mind for a long time. You get that feeling just from reviewing the current public transportation -- ie JO routes:http://www.thejo.com/pdf/jctsystemmap2007.pdfTake a case in point. You live in Lawrence, and you have a job interview at Sprint headquarters in OP. You take K-10 Connection to either JCCC or the Edwards campus:Try plotting a course to get from there to the Sprint campus with existing bus routes. Keep in mind that you really don't want to bike or walk as a lot of these professional places don't want you looking sweaty, etc. Now take that same idea and think how many different light rail track paths would be necessary to get to all these destinations. The big problem is the layout of our communities. There are just to many points of origin and points of destination. I think it would be a nightmare for ANY public transportation system one might propose.

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Sigmund 5 years, 11 months ago

If buses are so useful how come the City maintains a fleet of private vehicles for city employees? Becasue just like the vast majority of Lawrencian's (99.9%), the "empTy" is a huge waste of time and driving a car is much more cost effective, productive, and dependable. As a bonus modern cars with a single rider are better for the environment than "empTy" unless the buses are close to full, which I have never personally witnessed, because late mdoel cars use less fossil fuel per passenger mile than "empTy" buses. The only good thing I can say about the "empTy" is that they don't use ethanol and therefore are not personally responsible for starving a third world nation.Keeping wasting money $2.5 million annually on the "empTy" and Lawrence could soon follow Vallejo, CA and our ex major-slash-gorcery clerk into bankruptcy.http://www.nbc11.com/politics/16185467/detail.html"Vallejo Votes For Bankruptcy""The city faces a $16 million deficit in the 2008-2009 budget starting July 1 and unsuccessfully negotiated with its police, firefighter and electrical workers unions for contract concessions through 2012. Public safety salaries comprise 74 percent of the city's general fund budget."

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TopJayhawk 5 years, 11 months ago

You would need to have some bus feeder lines in some areas. fueled of course by bio-mas fuels, it's green, sustanable, and whole areas of downtowns would smell like french fries, which would make people hungry, and they would buy a meal and pay more taxes to it...LOL

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TopJayhawk 5 years, 11 months ago

I think you would have to make if practicle for use. Eg. Trains every 10-15 minutes. Limited stops for time pruposes. Route it to go by Universities, major employment centers Sprint Center and sports complex in KC. Shopping areas like the plaza and Legends. etc. It would be high speed technology. You could get Federal Money. a small gas tax in all usage areas. raise parking fees at all parking lots and garages in all areas. put a 10% surcharge on all sporting, theatrical, and concert tickets. And even all of our percious tshirts that we buy KU, KSU Chiefs, whatever. I know this will cost upwards of a Billion dollars, but that is spread over years of usag.And if daytrader23 has a better way, I'm all ears.

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just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 5 years, 11 months ago

I think your population estimate is pretty close.-- probably pushing 3 million if you go into Missouri a ways.Yes, it could happen. And if we had the share of the Iraq war debt of those 3 million people, we'd have been a long ways towards paying for it.

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Daytrader23 5 years, 11 months ago

WOW, in my first post I said it would take Lawrence 20 years to figure this transit system out. After reading some comments I can clearly see it will take THE PEOPLE of Lawrence 20 years to figure it out. Progressive? Lawrence?Compared to what? Some red neck trailer park out in the sticks?

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TopJayhawk 5 years, 11 months ago

Hey Bozo, thanks for responding... I didn't know that and I consider myself somewhat of a history buff. But look. What would you say the population of the all of these areas. KC metro: 2milllion. Topeka metro. 200,000 Manhattan 60,000 Lawrence 100,000 ? you tell me. total at least 2.4 million folks. That's two states =four senators, and a bunch of Congressmen. Federal help, gasoline tax, 2.4 mill in tax mill levys Tickets and permits to ride. Money from a parking tax in all of these towns. That's a lot of money, and when you stretch it out over fifty yrs or so and the use of bonds. and what alll . I think it is totally doable.

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just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 5 years, 11 months ago

In the early 20th century, there used be just such a system, TopJayhawk, and it was quite successful, using more primitive technology serving a population that was considerably less dense. It could work again, if we want it, too.But too many of us want to remain hermetically sealed in our private cars, going ever further in hock to the Chinese, and fighting wars over oil to keep the oil supply flowing.

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TopJayhawk 5 years, 11 months ago

Just think of the gasoline savings from sitting in traffic on 23rd st everyday. And integrate the KU bus line into it of course.

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TopJayhawk 5 years, 11 months ago

Okay, stay with me now, this will be expensive. I think we should build a light rail system that stretches from Manhattan Ks. to Odessa Mo. It would also encompass Topeka, Lawrence Eudora. The KC metro area, you would run it into shawnee and Overland Park to Olatha, then up to downtown KC, and out to the sports complex. Then on out to about Odessa and back. Think of the ridership! Admittedly light in some areas, but heavy in others. All stops are "park and ride." You could commut from Lawrence to your jobs in Topeka and KC. Think of the tracffic on K-10 daily. You could use it if you lived in Overland park and worked in downtown KC. Chiefs games KU games, KSU games. Students migrating from Topeka to KU and KSU Make it high speed. Run a spur up to KCI.Massisvely expensive? you bet. But it would have the numbers to pay off.

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le 5 years, 11 months ago

Wow..Have I been reinstated? I have not had one single post removed today....did ya finally figure out that like cancer..I am not a quitter/? Or did they finally fire the @ss that has a grudge against my honest approach? I am confused now! Perhaps he/she is on vacation and has a poor workin relationship 2 the one that was passed the wand! At any rate I am just a lot less angry today..It`s hard work tryin 2 be heard! In the words o Elvis..thank ya thank ya very much!

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macon47 5 years, 11 months ago

scrap prices are a record highlooks like a good time to sell

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bennyoates 5 years, 11 months ago

The T is always pretty much empty, so I say fill it up. Fill it up with all the homeless deadbeats in Lawrence, the communist gay tree-huggers, and anyone who even thinks of voting Democrat. Then napalm the whole worthless bunch of them for using up MY tax dollars.

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le 5 years, 11 months ago

Shut it down...we can then turn the glass bus stops into mini homeless shelters for the lazy drunks and crackheads that larryville caters 2....If were gonna feed em and not require them to get training 2 get off the streets..we could put em in front of the bus like a team of horses and crack the whip..win win...we still would have a bus system and the homeless would be earning their keep and just think of the fuel savings...I must be a freakin genius !

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Norma Jeane Baker 5 years, 11 months ago

Lawrence is only progressive in its own mind and when it suits its purposes.

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Godot 5 years, 11 months ago

Record gas prices are precisely the reason to cut the T. Why? Because the operation costs double, at a minimum, while the ridership remains the same. People are not going to waste hours of their time to ride the T when they could walk or ride a bike to their destination in less time.

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Snowgurl0 5 years, 11 months ago

It's just a much a black hole as funding road infrastructure. It doesn't make money. We spend billions to fix it only to destroy it. And then, uh oh, concrete prices go up, federal funds have gone belly up, what do we do now? Same situation, tax the local community. I understand the system might be inefficient for some, but why not push for increased services? Yes, that will cost more money, but this is a service that Lawrence CAN improve over time, and will be an asset to the community. Much better investment than encouraging more cars on the road. Because believe it or not, one person per vehicle is extremely inefficient, extremely costly to the environment, infrastructure, and yourselves. And if Lawrence truely is as "progressive" as they seem to think, the citizens will see the insanity of dropping the tranist service.

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Norma Jeane Baker 5 years, 11 months ago

You're right, Snowgurl0. I've never ridden the T. Why should I? I work in KC. When I'm in Lawrence, I can get anywhere the T goes FASTER by walking or riding my bike. That's many people's point: the T is incredibly inefficient in its routing.I'd love to see a successful public transportation system in this town, but, like bozo has already said, the T was destined to fail from its inception. Why should people trust that it can be righted now? That's why many people are so opposed to pouring more money into this black hole.

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JackRipper 5 years, 11 months ago

Come on bozo this is Lawrence. Riding the bus might mean you have to ride with people who aren't in the same professional yuppie class. We couldn't have that. Can someone explain why people think Lawrence is progressive? America is waiting.

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Snowgurl0 5 years, 11 months ago

You said it Bozo! Another point to consider: There has been much talk about another gas tax. It's inevitable there will be the tax, it's just a matter of when. So not only will you be paying the 4.00/gal gas, but the increase tax on that, car payments, insurance payments, maintenance, etc. The list goes on and on. And we think a slight increase in transit funds is ridiculous?! If poor service is the problem, fight for that instead of getting rid of it. A lot of folks can't afford the nonsense that goes into vehicles. 40.00 a month gets you unlimited rides around Lawrence. Can't beat that! I'm willing to bet that most of the negative supporters have never actually ridden the bus.

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just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 5 years, 11 months ago

"Lawrence will probably never have a well-functioning (viable) public transportation system. At least not until it is part of Topekansas City."I disagree. We all spend way more than 20 cents a day, apiece to build and maintain a road system that primarily benefits the owners of cars (and trucks.) Spending a tiny bit more so that we all have access to a good bus system that would truly benefit everyone, and give everyone access to and use of our very expensive road system seems like a no-brainer to me.

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gl0ck0wnr 5 years, 11 months ago

Kill the T. Each rider on the T costs taxpayers $7.5 per one way trip. It makes no sense to spend $15 per user to get someone to and from a location using a virtually empty bus. There is no demand for this service and with Lawrence facing increasing economic difficulties, it should focus on core services.

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JackRipper 5 years, 11 months ago

It is amazing to me that the student ran bus system was more logical and practical then what we have now. All that was needed was extending the student bus system and instead we got a the most bizarre system of bus service I've ever seen anywhere.

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offtotheright 5 years, 11 months ago

I was near campus one day this week. There were three ku buses following each other, no riders, and 2 "T" buses in the exact same block with no riders.That is really smart!

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Snowgurl0 5 years, 11 months ago

Godot: What do you mean misallocated? Federal funds account for about 50% of operating costs of the funding for the system, and that's being generous. FTA funds are looking grim so I wouldn't count on those for long either. It's always a bad idea to rely on federal funds as the economy rises and falls constantly.

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JackRipper 5 years, 11 months ago

Good ol Lawrence, the hayseed town it is ready to shut down something that was setup basakward in the first place at a time where mass transit ridership around the country is up but that makes sense for us. Three buses systems running at the same time and yet an intelligent routing system can't be implemented. We can't tell city and university employees they will need to use the bus so right away we will find out what is working and what isn't working. No, can't do that because we are progressive Lawrence LOL!!!

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Compy 5 years, 11 months ago

I love Lawrence, I tend to forget I am in Kansas most of the time, except when I read coments about the T, and realise, there are STILL people who think Cheap Petroleum will last forever (newsflash: your precious car is about to become one big albatross round your neck). Grow out of the high school mindset that "Riding the bus is for children" and smell the rising costs of fuel.Proud to be in the .4 % of Americans who commute to work via bicycle.

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Norma Jeane Baker 5 years, 11 months ago

"That argument can be made for at least 50% of the city's budget. Which other items should we also be cutting?"Great way to try to divert attention away from the real point of my comment, bozo: Lawrence will probably never have a well-functioning (viable) public transportation system. At least not until it is part of Topekansas City.

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Godot 5 years, 11 months ago

Snogurl, if the entire T is Federally funded, then some Federal funds are being misallocated.

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just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 5 years, 11 months ago

"Again, please don't offer up my wallet on something that you even admitted was destined to fail, by design, from the start."That argument can be made for at least 50% of the city's budget. Which other items should we also be cutting?

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tvc 5 years, 11 months ago

Record gas prices and we want to cut the T! I think now is the time to invest in the T.

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Andrew Stahmer 5 years, 11 months ago

Jayhawk Taxi has said they could provide cheaper rides, and for more people. It really sounds like a taxi voucher system is an excellent option. Only those currently certified to ride paratransit would be eligible for vouchers. This would put more money in the private sector. We should also consider that the taxis run 24/7...we'll never have 'public transportation' in this town that will be offered 24/7...never...never...never!

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Norma Jeane Baker 5 years, 11 months ago

I realize that a well-functioning transit system makes the city a better place to live, but I seriously doubt that Lawrence, as a 'stand alone' city, will ever have one. Having grown up back east, I know what a well-functioning system looks like. My friends and I could take the bus to anywhere we wanted to go. And that was many years ago.Again, please don't offer up my wallet on something that you even admitted was destined to fail, by design, from the start.

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just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 5 years, 11 months ago

"Just why, bozo, should each and every citizen of Lawrence further fund the T? "Because even if you don't personally ride the T, a well-functioning transit system makes the city a better place to live, and even you benefit from that.

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blue73harley 5 years, 11 months ago

I think it is a great idea to put it to a vote.If there are that many bus riders it will surely pass...or not.

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Snowgurl0 5 years, 11 months ago

Godot:The entire T fleet is federally funded not just the paratransit.A side note: public transportation will never be a money making venture, although I would like to see ridership increase...

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Norma Jeane Baker 5 years, 11 months ago

Just why, bozo, should each and every citizen of Lawrence further fund the T? Wouldn't this put an undo burden on many families and individuals that are already looking for ways to make ends meet?It's very generous of you to just offer up my wallet, but I think I'll pass.

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just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 5 years, 11 months ago

"Even Galante deduced, from the results of the survey that was conducted, that the only way to make the T work would be do increase ridership, "Which exactly why the system needs to be improved. They system was designed to be inadequate for most potential riders, with predictable results.

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Godot 5 years, 11 months ago

Even Galante deduced, from the results of the survey that was conducted, that the only way to make the T work would be do increase ridership, and that, apparently, people in Lawrence value their time too much too waste it by riding the T. No matter how much money you throw at the T, it will never gain the ridership necessary to make it viable.

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dano 5 years, 11 months ago

The LJW sub headline represents pro-T bias. "Sales tax vote could be one way to save system." Perhaps LJW, some voters are not trying to "save" (spend a million dollars more than what we spend now) a bus that carries one passenger PER BUS every six minutes.

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just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 5 years, 11 months ago

"There goes Bozo with fuzzy math again. $1.3 million will not sustain the T; to keep it at its current levels will require at least another $1.2 million."OK, say you're right-- then we're up to 8 cents a day. Increase that to 20 cents a day, and we can have a system that actually works, especially if merged with the KU system.

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Godot 5 years, 11 months ago

There goes Bozo with fuzzy math again. $1.3 million will not sustain the T; to keep it at its current levels will require at least another $1.2 million. The question really should be, how much does it cost per person who uses the T (not counting paratransit because that portion is covered by a Federal grant).Someone posted on another thread that it represents a subsidy of $15 per ride.

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macon47 5 years, 11 months ago

if one third of the people cant drivewhere are they now.?they sure are not on the busonly 600 per day ride the busthat is less than one percent??f

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Snowgurl0 5 years, 11 months ago

Getting rid of the "T" would be the worst decision Lawrence residents could make. For starters, the Highway Trust Fund is going bankrupt this year. That means, no federal money for roads/bridges. That means, local funds will be sought after, so you need to be prepared to take that money from somewhere. You're also dealing with high gas prices, and they're not going down. They never will. Is Lawrence REALLY willing to cut off the lifeline that is the "T?" Think about other people besides youself and understand that many people use the T to get around town. 1/3 of residents can't drive so how are they going to get around? Someday when you're too old or can't afford to drive, or just flat out don't want to drive, public transportation will be there. New Flash: Public transportation is the way of the future. Do you really think the economy can afford to pour money into the "black hole" of roads and bridges while the population continues to rise? You can only add so many lanes to a road and highway. When are we going to say enough already?!

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just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 5 years, 11 months ago

"Amyx actually asked staff members for an estimate of how much money the city would free up for the 2009 budget if public transit operations were discontinued. The answer: About $1.3 million in a budget that is expected to be among the more challenging in recent memory."$1.3 million divided by 85,000 residents divided by 365 days equals about 4 cents a day per resident.I say increase that funding to 20 cents a day, and build a system that actually works, rather than one designed to fail.

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Eride 5 years, 11 months ago

A city needs proper roads before a bus system. Get rid of the T.

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SettingTheRecordStraight 5 years, 11 months ago

Vote NO on the utterly disgraceful waste of tax payer dollars known as the T. Because I care about Lawrence and its residents, I will be telling everyone I know to vote against further funding of the T.

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Jeanne Cunningham 5 years, 11 months ago

A bunch (or just one smart) local business should sponsor the bus. They could give passes to riders who shop at their store(s). So, if you ride the bus to their store, it's free.

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nugget 5 years, 11 months ago

Just watched the T lumber noisily around my corner, engine groaning, its size meant to haul dozens of people on a route where there are none. Only problem, it was empty, as usual. Never more than 3-4 people at max, but usually carrying only a salary earning driver.

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justforfun 5 years, 11 months ago

If you combine both sales tax questions as one it will FAIL and there will be no infrastructure increase! Majority of people want to see the T go away. Oh yea and Boog as far as raising property taxes further to support the T go ahead and STICK IT WHERE THE SUN DON'T SHINE!!!

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LogicMan 5 years, 11 months ago

They are at least two separate issues. If by votes, keep them separate.But much better is to do the right thing now, and pare back the T significantly. I'm available, at my regular consulting rates, to do the redesign. :-)

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Richard Heckler 5 years, 11 months ago

Present the measure thus way:Public Transportation Yes or NoSidewalk Rehab Yes or NoStreet Rehab Yes or NoThe economic stimulus portion is not clear enough to warrant support from the public. Commissioners have not proven themselves, either now or in the past, to be able to make the right decisions. In other words there is no hard evidence to support what they think is economic growth. The Chamber of Commerce,city and county commissioners and the planning commissioners simply enjoy spending lots of money without knowing if that spending will actually create economic growth. Sprawl in any form jeopardizes economic growth. Forget round-a-bouts. Use speed bumps which are very effective and much less expensive.

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Daytrader23 5 years, 11 months ago

Why don't you send the planner to Switzerland so he/she can learn how public transport is supposed to work. Also having bus only lanes would help by creating such a traffic problem that most people would rather do the park-n-ride option then try to drive through town. Raise parking fees. Create bike lanes. It works in almost every other city in the world. Lawrence won't figure that out for another 20 years though.

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Ragingbear 5 years, 11 months ago

Just don't build 2 roundabouts. Problem solved. Those things cost a half million a pop.

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