LJWorld.com

introversion (Anonymous) says…

I remember in the microburst a couple years ago when the sirens went off after everything was over…

elou (Anonymous) says…

I don't understand how it was that we heard some kind of siren in our area, near campus, last night between 1:30 and 1:40. It sounded just like the usual tornado warning siren. I wondered why it went off so late.

I would prefer if the sirens would go off immediately in response to a NWS tornado warning, rather than relying on spotters. I really just want to be on the safe side.

rodentgirl16 (Anonymous) says…

What, was he asleep? Okay, so he decided that the tornado warning didn't warrant activation of the tornado sirens, but he never even considered it? That was a pretty dumb thing to say. Everyone please just get a weather radio.

mistygreen (Anonymous) says…

I thought these warning systems were developed to save lives?
What's the point of the NWS issuing a warning if Douglas county says, naw, I don't think so…

Holy cow batman!

KSA_21_3503 (Anonymous) says…

Time to clean house in the county government offices. No excuses. Fire Bob Newton.

BigPrune (Anonymous) says…

The rotation first spotted on radar was out by Stull. Pretty far from Lawrence, though the wind was pretty incredible in town.

elou (Anonymous) says…

Please, Bob Newton, tell me I'm not crazy! Did I imagine the siren that I heard!?! My husband heard it as well. Maybe it was a whistling tornado?

I vote for a change in policy. NWS tornado warning = local tornado sirens sounding immediately. Please! I have no basement, and I need time to get to safety with my baby. I won't mind some false calls. No problem.

aha (Anonymous) says…

This will go over well …

elou (Anonymous) says…

Please, Bob Newton, tell me I'm not crazy! Did I imagine the siren that I heard!?! My husband heard it as well. Maybe it was a whistling tornado, a much-too-late warning, an all-clear that wasn't supposed to be sounded?

I vote for a change in policy. NWS tornado warning = local tornado sirens sounding immediately. Please! I have no basement, and I need time to get to safety with my baby. I won't mind some false calls. No problem.

shorttrees (Anonymous) says…

So here's the part that says it all—”it never crossed my mind to activate the tornado warning sirens last night.” As emergency management director, with the area in an active NWS tornado warning, it never crossed his mind. Unacceptable!

themiddlechild (Anonymous) says…

Newton also said that in Douglas County, sirens are almost never activated purely because of wind.
––––––––––––––––––-
An 80mph wind is not just wind.

alfie (Anonymous) says…

Hey people give it a break, no one was hurt. Go cry wolf somewhere else

Bassetlover (Anonymous) says…

Let's not second guess the years of training and experience Bob Newton has had in emergency management, especially as it pertains to severe weather. He has a history of making sound judgments. To throw him under the bus for this is terribly unfair and I think the headline is a bit sensationalized. Thanks, Bob, for all your years of service.

mom_of_three (Anonymous) says…

Aren't 80 mph winds considered hurricane force??

Nobody was injured, so last night's decision didn't affect anything but people's peace of mind. But EMS might want to think about their policy (about winds) after last night.

georgeofwesternkansas (Anonymous) says…

It was only a 70mph wind. Why is everyone having a cow over that??

Baille (Anonymous) says…

Hey, Alfie. I think they are trying to be proactive and plan for the next one. Why wait for someone to die before you reevaluate a policy?

KUMOM25 (Anonymous) says…

Mr. Newton,
With all these students living in apartment complexes with not shelter….what are you thinking? They need time to get to shelter. I did not appreciate my frantic 1:15 a.m. call, in which I entered Lawrence on weather.com and found a tornado warning was in effect with NO sirens going off. I couldn't help her being over 3 hours away. Change your policy…change your thinking before someone is hurt. I encourage everyone to buy weather radios…you can't depend on emergency management personnel in Lawrence.

mistygreen (Anonymous) says…

I'm sorry it is completely unacceptable to risk the lives of people just because it did not cross his mind. Obviously he is regulated by Douglas county policy. I understand the guy is doing his job, but this policy needs to be re-evaluated.

George_Braziller (Anonymous) says…

I slept through the entire thing and even had my bedroom window open.

KSA_21_3503 (Anonymous) says…

You apologists seem to be forgetting the one and ONLY important fact.

We were in a tornado warning.

The sirens are there to alert us of a tornado warning.
The sirens were not sounded.
Bob Newton made the decision to ignore the National Weather Service issued tornado warning.

Guess what… waiting until a tornado is actually spotted before sounding the sirens is too late because that means, obviously, that the tornado has already touched down and easily could have already caused significant damage. This policy needs to be changed, and Newton needs to be fired.

ksdivakat (Anonymous) says…

I hope that the hype and hysteria will be calmed by rational thinking.
In the 15 years that Bob and Terri have been with EOC, how many people in douglas county have died due to a storm?? The answer is 0.
The sirens are designated to notify people outside, not to notify people inside. This is why, the safest, and most reliable method of warning is a weather radio. This will sound if there is sirens or not. This is the BEST method of protection against Kansas storms.
Indeed, we went under the warning around 12:45-1:00, however, by the time it actually entered the county it had already weakend significantly. There was at NO time a trained spotter who spotted a funnel or a rotating cloud.
The tornado warning was prompted by a doplar radar indicated tornado. This does not always mean tornado. You must understand how doplar works, its contingent on the location of the radar and the direction of the storm, VS the direction of the wind sheer, if these ingredients come together the radar will indicate tornado, but it doesnt always mean tornado. This is why, the spotters must spot the funnel and transmit that to EOC.
80 MPH winds are dangerous and are very scary, but is not a tornado.
This is Kansas, and the weather is subject to change at the twinkling of an eye…..please remember the safest thing is to purchase a weather radio, which are very inexpensive.

justthefacts (Anonymous) says…

Tornado warning = tornado has been spotted on radar and/or by human. Not the same as tornado watch (one may happen, we just don't know). A warning means people need to be warned. The sirens are to warn people. Night tornadoes are the most dangerous - you can't see them coming. People need to be warned in any way possible. If we aren't going to use the sirens when the NWS issues a tornado warning, then (a) why bother to have sirens and/or (b) why bother to pay attention to the NWS?

ffan04 (Anonymous) says…

Being an atmospheric science major at KU I cannot believe the sirens were not used. The whole reason doppler radar was developed was to warn people before a tornado touchdown. Tornadoes and storms form very quickly and 20 years ago there was no way to warning people other than spotters observing a tornado. By the time someone is observing a tornado its already to late for some who are in the path especially at night when people are asleep and its difficult to see a tornado or funnel cloud. Based on how this emergency officer acted he disregarded the warning system and technology developed to help protect people. The city needs to address this.

hootman31 (Anonymous) says…

Seems to me that a tornado warning is just that: the Warning of a Possible Tornado!?!?.

I didn't realize that Douglas County has different Levels of Tornado Warnings!?!#@#

So last night's warning must have only been a Yellow Alert Tornado Warning which doesn't trigger the sirens?!?!

I guess we should disregard the National Weather Services's Warning Warning Warning: You are about to be blown AWAY!

I guess we should wait until Douglas County county decides that it is actually a Red Alert Tornado Warning, designated so by the vote of a committee???

This seems to go against the whole idea of having an Advanced Warning System at all. Notice the word advanced, as in before it gets here!

My vote is to do away with the Color Coded Tornado Warning System, and only sound the sirens when someone has physically been picked-up and tossed-around, and then spit-out; and then still only if they happen to land within say 100 yards of the Law Enforcement Center.

twosides (Anonymous) says…

Damn- was I dreaming that my weather radio alarm sounded with a tornado warning for Douglas and Jefferson county last night?

sharper (Anonymous) says…

I don't want the sirens blown at a drop of a hat for frivilous reasons so that people become too accustomed to them and think that a siren means absolutely nothing, but I live in an apartment and I think that a siren should be blown when a storm is that severe.

A girl in Arkansas died when a tree blew over and fell on her house and caught her while she was sleeping in bed. A tree fell over in Lawrence too, but luckily they were up watching tv and not in their bedroom.

With 70+ mph winds (purely wind, bah, might as well say “merely” wind) and a tornado warning, they sure as heck should have “thought” about sounding the sirens.

KSA_21_3503 (Anonymous) says…

“The tornado warning was prompted by a doplar radar indicated tornado. This does not always mean tornado. You must understand how doplar works, its contingent on the location of the radar and the direction of the storm, VS the direction of the wind sheer, if these ingredients come together the radar will indicate tornado, but it doesnt always mean tornado. This is why, the spotters must spot the funnel and transmit that to EOC. ”

Yes, someone who can't even spell “doppler” must be an expert in how the radar works. Go back to your hole.

duplenty (Anonymous) says…

You people are morons. Turn on a TV, turn on a radio. Bob Newton is very good at his job. Had you been listening to 6news at 1am, you would have heard him discribe the situation to Jennifer Schack, live in real time, and explain why there were no sirens.

KSA_21_3503 (Anonymous) says…

“You people are morons. Turn on a TV, turn on a radio. Bob Newton is very good at his job. Had you been listening to 6news at 1am, you would have heard him discribe the situation to Jennifer Schack, live in real time, and explain why there were no sirens.”

Yes, useful advice for people who don't have power or cable. Grow up.

BeeBee3 (Anonymous) says…

Hey Kealing- nice headline. Taken out of context and twisting words. True J world style. Grade A journalism.

hootman31 (Anonymous) says…

ksdivakat,

Bob was lucky and so where we: it was a different story in '81 when the sirens didn't get sounded!

http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2003/may/09…

The injuries and death were blamed on a lack of warning about the storm. Phil Rankin, who was a volunteer storm spotter at the time, saw the tornado descend from the clouds and was able to issue a warning over his radio. His transmission started the city's warning sirens, but residents had only about 30 seconds to take cover.

“People didn't have time,” he told the Journal-World in 1991. “They didn't have much warning.”

Although the 1981 storm was deadly and changed many residents' lives, the destruction could have been worse. The tornado that struck Lawrence that day was unusual, meteorologists say.

elou (Anonymous) says…

duplenty, I'm sure Bob Newton is good at his job, but I do believe we need a policy change. Also, I'm not awake, listening to 6news at 1am. I'm asleep with my family in my house with no basement. Thanks.

dirkleisure (Anonymous) says…

Remember, this news organization believes tornado sirens are obsolete anyway.

See:
http://www.ktka.com/news/2008/apr/29/are…

Dolph Simons must have a tornado siren near his house that he would prefer go the way of the dodo.

bhenick (Anonymous) says…

There is a way to fix this.

[1] Through your commissioner, ask the County Commission in writing to put the issue on the agenda for an upcoming meeting (assuming this article doesn't lead them to do so as a matter of course.

[2] Repeat the request at regular intervals until it is granted.

[3] Attend the appropriate meeting and speak up during the public comment period.

[4] Repeat this process as often as needed, taking action as recommended in the meantime.

That's how local democracy works, folks. And being a pain in the neck works too, as long as you're constructive and thoughtful about it.

Now, that's the by-the-book way to do it. I personally hope that this article, and our comments, will motivate the Commission to take action without needing to be asked through channels.

In Boone Co., Mo., where I lived for eight years, the policy is (or at least was) to activate sirens when a warning is received from the NWS. To discover that they do things differently here was disconcerting, especially given that the Mar. 2006 microburst rolled right down the hill in front of my windows with roughly three minutes of meaningful warning.

sharper (Anonymous) says…

And I'm sick and tired of this “warning people outside” excuse. So you think people who were out and about last night didn't deserve to be warned? Or are they already outside and can tell that they're about to get screwed over? Shouldn't they have deserved a warning?

One caveat: I might be upset about this excuse even more because my brother works nights and gets off work around 2:00 a.m. If there supposed to warn people who are “outside” then they should have warned those people last night. I might be even more upset because my brother doesn't have a car and walks or bikes home from work. Don't claim that the sirens are to protect those who “are outside” and then fail to “protect” them from 70+ mph winds.

Okay, I'm done ranting now…

Azazel (Anonymous) says…

I agree that NWS tornado warning should = local tornado sirens. Fortunately, I have a weather radio and was aware of what was going on last night; but the purpose of the siren is to communicate such warnings as this.
For now, however, don't wait for the local sirens; get a weather radio.

Moderateguy (Anonymous) says…

Does anybody have current experience with the newer weather radios? Back in the late 70's, early 80's we had one. The dang thing would go off all the time, even if it was 3:00 in the morning, and they were just issuing a watch for some area a hundred miles away. It was too much of a pain for the very rare times a warning was issued for our area. Can you set the new ones just for tornado warnings in our area or something similar?

jhyphene (Anonymous) says…

Sounds like Newton isn't the issue, rather the policy needs revisiting.

I know I want a siren alert if we are under a warning. The wind woke me up, and I was curious how big the storm was so I turned on the tv. Cable was out so I turned on the radio. That's when I found out we were under a warning. Frankly, I was shocked that it took strong winds to wake me up, then my own curiosity to turn on the radio to find out we were under a warning.

Push the damn button and activate the sirens. What's the harm? Worst case scenario is people are instantly informed that we are under a warning and can act accordingly. The policy seems to push the limit on when to provide the mass alert.

I reiterate my point: policy needs to be changed. How do we get that done?

justthefacts (Anonymous) says…

“You want broader warnings? Get a radio.”

Nice advice. For people who aren't on fixed incomes. You want to donate one to such a person?

If we don't sound the sirens to warn people (who may be asleep or without power) when the NWS issues a tornado warning (not watch) but only when we have a spotter see one, then why bother to have sirens, pay attention to NWS, or look at or use radar, in the first place? If “I see one coming” is the only standard by which warnings are believed, we all need to get in our cars any time the clouds pile up, so we can see them for ourselves!!

allateup (Anonymous) says…

Bob Newton decided to play God last night

ralphralph (Anonymous) says…

Fargineedeeott!

ffan04 (Anonymous) says…

so what are people suppose to do when the power is out and they are asleep?

ohjayhawk (Anonymous) says…

Moderateguy - Yes, the new radios are quite detailed. You can set it to go off for just your county or also for surrounding counties if you like. You can even set it to go off for the specific warnings you want to be alerted to (i.e. tornado warning, svr thunderstorm warning, flood warning, etc - even down through watches).

gphawk89 (Anonymous) says…

There's a delicate balance between sounding the sirens too often or not often enough. Too often and the public becomes desensitized. The policy where I live is to sound the sirens here if a tornado is sighted in an adjacent county. As a result, folks pay little if any attention to the sirens.

KSA_21_3503 (Anonymous) says…

“Depending on sirens is kind of like sticking straight pins into a package of condoms and crossing your fingers. And it is that way everywhere.”

So….

why…

have…

them…

in…

the…

first…

place…???

Oh well, some people won't be able to hear them, so we might as well never use them, right? Wow.

Qanzas (Anonymous) says…

What I find most worrisome about the existing procedure is its dependence upon a spotter literally seeing a tornado. It seems unlikely that there are enough spotters to see a tornado that may form anywhere in or directly around the city in the daytime, let alone in the darkness at 1AM in the middle of a severe thunderstorm. I know I'm not the only one who saw the tornado on the ground south of 23rd St during the so-called “microburst” a few years back. The previous comments that a warning would come to late are completely accurate.

Further, the NWS warning last night was not a general warning canvasing the entirety of Douglas county. Instead, it very specifically stated a wall cloud, with rotation, *and funnels*, was directly west of Clinton lake, and that *the cities of Lawrence and Tonganoxie should take cover immediately.

I'd like to repeat RKLOG in saying, “Blow the sirens!! Blow the stupid sirens!!!”

westernksgirl (Anonymous) says…

KSA 21-3503 … really? You're using that as your screen name? You're using “indecent liberties with a child”? Unless, you yourself are over the age of 14 but less than 16 (per the statute), this is not *cute*, it is sick.

dirkleisure (Anonymous) says…

Aren't we always told that just because you can't see a tornado or signs of a tornado, a tornado warning means formation could happen at a moment's notice?

According to the NOAA, if a tornado warning is issued you should “move to your pre-designated place of safety.”

Hard to do that when there is no notification of the warning being issued.

justthefacts (Anonymous) says…

I can hear the sirens thank you. If they go off.

But it's good to know that we have a policy that they will only sound if/when people on the ground spot the funnel cloud. That means when ever a tornado watch is in effect (should we pay attention to those?) those who don't have the $25-50 to spend on a weather radio need to sleep in a basement (theirs or a friends). Because they aren't going to be given any kind of middle of the night chance to get to safety in time.

Perhaps we can sell off our unnecessary sirens and associated expenses of using them, and then use the resulting money to give out weather radios at to those on fixed incomes?

Forgive me for being a tad upset - I've seen the after-math of tornadoes, up close and personal, just one time too many.

KSA_21_3503 (Anonymous) says…

westernksgirl,

You have a problem with the law? Write the Legislature. Otherwise, try to stay on topic here.

dirkleisure (Anonymous) says…

The cost of a weather radio is moot.

Taxes are paid to maintain a warning system. The reason that system is maintained with tax dollars is so individual citizens can feel secure they will be notified of a warning.

It is called “government” and “community” and taught in 9th grade civics.

Bob Newton should just fess up - the sirens weren't activated because it was 1 a.m. and he didn't want to field a bunch of calls from people angry he woke them up.

duplenty (Anonymous) says…

“Yes, useful advice for people who don't have power or cable. Grow up.”

Um, guess what, genius: grown-ups pay attention to little things like the weather, and make sure they have what they need, i.e. a radio…are you aware that there are nifty little things that go in the back of a radio called *batteries* that make electricity a non-issue?

“Grow up”, you say? Howsabout not waiting for Bob Newton or a siren to take care of you and yours? That's what a “grown up” would do.

'Also, I'm not awake, listening to 6news at 1am. I'm asleep with my family in my house with no basement.”

Are you under the impression that I was tuned into a 6News weather report at 1am for entertainment? The coming storm was known about and reported on starting at like 5pm. When the wind started really howling at 12:15 or so, guess what? I thought to myself “self, maybe you should haul your a$$ out of bed and flip on the TV so you can take care of your family”.

You know what? It worked.

westernksgirl (Anonymous) says…

I have no problem with the law, I have a problem with someone using a statute number that stands for indecent liberties with a child, and since, given your history of postings, you are relatively new to this, and this is one of the few forums that you've posted on, this is why I'm bringing this up now. I think you using that as your sign in is sick.

monkeyhawk (Anonymous) says…

Flawed policy = gigantic liability.

Funny how so many in this city love their big government except when it comes to something like this.

But, I suppose we can all continue to lower our expectations every day. Confidence is quickly eroding.

ralphralph (Anonymous) says…

I left Lawrence last night about midnight, ran into this storm southwest of Ottawa, and it was a monster at that point … horrendous winds, intense lighting, pelting hail, blinding rain … more than you typical little T-storm. I am a former 'trained spotter' [I became one after our EP manager failed to sound the sirens for a straight-line storm that devastated my home town], and I was very concerned that I had driven my wife into a tornado … Relihan sort of confirmed my worry on 580, between the static, by saying, I think, that there was a tornado in Osage County. If I could have sounded the sirens in the communities behind me, I would have done it. This wasn't just wind. Bob dodged a bullet. You need to change your policy to cover the event of an “inland hurricane” or whatever the buzz word of the decade might be for a brutal straight-line-wind storm. I would think, too, that if NWS actually notices what is happening and warns you, prudence might dictate action. Whaddyathink, Bob?

KSA_21_3503 (Anonymous) says…

“Um, guess what, genius: grown-ups pay attention to little things like the weather, and make sure they have what they need, i.e. a radio…are you aware that there are nifty little things that go in the back of a radio called *batteries* that make electricity a non-issue?”

You have yet to address the issue of Tornado Warning Sirens. Surely, given your years of wisdom, you have come to learn that not everyone has radios, tvs, electricity, cable, etc.? What of them? Mere casualties of war? You are showing such a profound immaturity that everything you say is laughable.

We have tornado sirens for a reason. If we follow your logic, then there is no reason to have tornado sirens in the first place. My point, and the point of all the reasonable posters here is that, since we have them, why not use them? There is no higher level of warning than a tornado warning. We were in a tornado warning. The sirens should have been used.

KSA_21_3503 (Anonymous) says…

“I have no problem with the law, I have a problem with someone using a statute number that stands for indecent liberties with a child, and since, given your history of postings, you are relatively new to this, and this is one of the few forums that you've posted on, this is why I'm bringing this up now. I think you using that as your sign in is sick.”

You continue to stray off topic. Write the Legislature if you don't like the current statute.

thomgreen (Anonymous) says…

I'm with George, I slept through the whole thing with my bedroom window open. It's Kansas people and it's spring. He followed the procedures that have been laid out for his job. Push for a change in policy, don't attack him for doing his job as he is directed to do.

merg311 (Anonymous) says…

So if the sirens do go off, your trampoline still gets thrown into the front yard and your fence still gets shredded. Sure they should have sounded, but it wouldn't have changed anything!

newsreader (Anonymous) says…

the sirens are dumb, you'll never be able to hear them… you think that in the middle of that storm last night the sirens would do anything? If that storm didn't wake you, the siren sure would not.

hootman31 (Anonymous) says…

Chiming in one more time:

Premise: I am not a storm-spotter, and don't know the current policy!

The Storm-Spotter's rollout when there is the possibility of a Tornado, which I am guessing means: Good Condition for a Tornado (so if they are out, Tornado's are possible); in Thunderstorm Warning; and in Tornado Watches. I noticed Spotters out shortly after 5:00 last night.

I am guessing the policy is (or actually should be:) Under a Tornado Watch, Thunderstorm Warning, Thunderstorm Watch (with good conditions for a Tornado), the Sirens Should Not be sounded without a Trained Person Confirming a Rotation!

Under a Tornado Warning issued by the NWS, Sound the Sirens.

Under a TS Watch or Warning or a Tornado Watch, only sound the sirens with a confirmed rotation, or unless it is Radar Indicated by doppler!

So I pose the question: why are spotter's out in Thunderstorm Warnings & Watches? Why not just have them dispersed when we are under a Tornado Warning?

Because the whole system is setup for Advanced Warning!

This is Kansas, and with the right conditions, a funnel can drop out of the sky at any time, just like it did in '81.

Last question: What is the Level above a Tornado Warning again?

KJones (Anonymous) says…

At first I was upset over the sirens not being sounded, then I realized that there are, to my knowledge, no public shelters. My house consists of a living with two large bay windows, a bedroom with on large bay window, and a bathroom so frankly now I'd rather not know about every time I can't do a thing.

mom_of_three (Anonymous) says…

Our windows were open, and the wind woke us up. My husband listened to the radio, and I turned on the tv.
Even though it was only winds, they were still excessive, and management people in the other towns said they probably would have sounded their sirens for what we had.
So the sirens didn't sound this time, but are they going to adjust the policy or re-evaluate it, for next time? That is the issue.

justthefacts (Anonymous) says…

Did I say that sirens are the perfect protection? Of course they aren't! But what good are they if we do not use them when there is a NWS issue tornado warning (not watch)?? Why bother to even have them if we do not turn them on when a tornado warning (not watch) has been issued?

justthefacts (Anonymous) says…

Amen KU weather man!

kansassportsnutgal (Anonymous)