Archive for Wednesday, June 25, 2008
City wants to buy depot
At its meeting Tuesday night, the Lawrence City Commission expressed an interest in purchasing the BNSF train depot in east Lawrence. While the price is right, $1, there is a catch - the city would become responsible for ongoing maintenance and any upgrades the facility needs.
June 25, 2008
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For a dollar, a majority of city commissioners are definitely interested in buying the deteriorating 1950s-era Burlington Northern Santa Fe Depot.
Commissioners on Tuesday took the first step toward negotiating a low-cost purchase of the east Lawrence depot from the railroad, despite concerns that a tight city budget would make it difficult to undertake what is expected to be a several hundred thousand dollar renovation of the building.
"I think it would be a shortsighted view to say we can't do this right now," City Commissioner Sue Hack said. "Well, we're not going to get it done by the weekend, but we can get on the path to get it done."
Commissioners on a 4-1 vote directed staff to begin discussions with the railroad, which has expressed an interest in selling the depot to the city for $1. Commissioner Rob Chestnut was the lone commissioner to vote against the issue.
Chestnut said he was concerned that taking over ownership of the depot would amount to an implicit commitment by the city to restore the building, which sits at the corner of Seventh and New Jersey streets. He said he was disappointed the railroad hadn't taken better care of the building.
Staff members said repairs and renovation could be expensive. A preliminary analysis estimated it could cost about $400,000 to bring the building into compliance with the Americans with Disabilities Act, and upward of $100,000 for several repairs such as fixing a leaky roof. It is also estimated to cost the city about $60,000 a year for routine maintenance and operational costs.
"I would love to restore another depot," said City Manager David Corliss, who was part of a team that restored the Union Pacific Depot in North Lawrence in the 1990s. "But it is that 'wants versus wallets' issue that is going to keep coming back to us."
Commissioners, though, received about an hour's worth of public comment urging them to take action on the building. A small community group - dubbed Depot Redux - has formed to build support for the project. Leaders of the group said reasons to proceed are numerous: Rail travel is better for the environment; the 1956 building is a good example of post-World War II architecture; and the city could benefit economically from having an attractive depot just three blocks from downtown.
"There are people from all over the state, all over the country who walk through those doors," said Marty Kennedy, a former city commissioner who serves as the volunteer who unlocks the station prior to the 5:50 a.m. arrival of the morning train. "This is the first impression they have of Lawrence."
About 3,700 customers a year use the Lawrence depot, Amtrak officials said. Currently the westbound Southwest Chief stops after midnight and the eastbound Southwest Chief a few hours later. But that number could increase to about 14,000 if a proposal to add new rail service between Kansas City and Oklahoma City materializes.
25 June 2008
at 12:32 a.m.
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igby (Anonymous) says…
Put a dozer to work and get ride of it. The city does not need it just like they don't need a graveyard.
$60,000 per year plus $600,000.00 to start.
What the hell are you people thinking with?
Corliss: “I'd love to build a pyramid” Lol.
25 June 2008
at 1:09 a.m.
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Marion (Marion Lynn) says…
$600,000 won't touch it.
If you check the other thread, you wil find the results of my conversation with BNSF, which transpired on Tuesday morning.
As my Grandfather used to say, Corliss needs to “change his drinkin' whiskey!”
25 June 2008
at 5:45 a.m.
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merrill (Anonymous) says…
Thanks Marty Kennedy for being the depot caretaker and it's a good buy for the city. Thanks City Commissioners!
While the building may need some cosmetic work it still works for passengers and Lawrence will look at this purchase as a smart move as train travel increases.
One day a Topeka/Lawrence/KCMO metro commuter train will bless this area as part of a public transportation system.
As is done in other cities buses and taxis will meet passengers to transport them to their destinations.
25 June 2008
at 6:17 a.m.
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aldo (Anonymous) says…
What a great deal for the railroad ! The City takes over maintenance and ownership responsibilities for their place of business. If I ask real nice, do you think the City will build and maintain a building for my business, too ? I have a dollar … When the city doesn't have enough money to buy 4 shovels full of asphalt to fix the street in front of my house, they want to buy another white elephant? Let's go all out and put a roundabout in front of the depot, too … tax and spend, tax and spend >>>
25 June 2008
at 6:28 a.m.
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cato_the_elder (Anonymous) says…
It was reported recently that when faced with a $4 million budget shortfall, the City of Olathe cut 21 jobs. In Lawrence, we have dire infrastructure needs but, as always, a tiny group of people with a pet project comes before the City Commission and 4 out of 5 commissioners agree to undertake something else that we can't afford and which has all the indicia of a bottomless pit. Why have our elected officials in Lawrence become such profligate spenders over the last 25 years or so? Sure, Lawrence has grown, but is there anywhere in this region that has grown like Olathe? Two very different approaches: Real world versus dream world, and respect for the taxpaying public versus spend first and tax later. Hats off to Rob Chestnut and David Corliss, and remedial math courses for the others.
25 June 2008
at 6:40 a.m.
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Godot (Anonymous) says…
Just last week Hack and Dever told the public that the city of Lawrence is in dire straights, financially. Now the commission makes this commitment, which we all know will cost much, much more than estimated.
The irresponsibility of this decision is breathtaking. I did not even bother to write or call about it because it appeared to be such a stupid idea that I trusted the commissioners to make the right decision. Man, was I wrong.
This gives those of us who oppose the sales tax increase one more example of extremely poor fiscal management and a failure of planning and decision making that we can point to when urging people to vote No.
25 June 2008
at 7:09 a.m.
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not_holroyd (Anonymous) says…
Hawk proposed a tax benefit district for the SLT yesterday. I have a similar proposal.
Let's create a tax benefit district for the 1200 block of Louisiana, which reportedly has land values which have skyrocketed in due to the Oread Hotel location. Therefore, these properties are under-appraised and under-taxed. Lets tax the difference and dedicate the revenues to the train station, because lots of students who have lived on this block over the years used the train to get to town.
Nobody else's taxes would be affected. A win-win.
25 June 2008
at 7:19 a.m.
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curiosityandthecat (Anonymous) says…
Although it may not appear to make sense economically, a rail line between Kansas City and Lawrence will be necessity in the future, and the commissioners are progressive enough (on this issue) to have that foresight.
25 June 2008
at 7:44 a.m.
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notajayhawk (Anonymous) says…
A rail line to KC will never be a 'necessity' and will likely never be practical, either. Kansas City would have to do an awful lot to their metro-wide public transportation system to make it possible to get anywhere after taking a train into the city.
25 June 2008
at 7:48 a.m.
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Godot (Anonymous) says…
Do you really believe that, if there ever is a rail line between Kansas City and Lawrence, this little depot will be sufficient?
Monuments to the ongoing waste of Lawrence taxpayer money: Eagle Bend, the T, and now the BNSF Depot.
Why doesn't this little group of people pool their pennies to come up with the dollar to buy this building, and then set about raising money to renovate it? Why didn't the City Commission make this suggestion? Where are their brains?
25 June 2008
at 7:51 a.m.
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just_another_bozo_on_this_bus (Anonymous) says…
BNSF really doesn't use this depot— Amtrak does, and BNSF only leases access to their tracks, and likely to the depot, as well.
While this depot could cost a fair amount to repair and bring up to modern requirements, there is grant money available, and in the end this building will be worth considerably more than the city has to invest in it.
Given that both air and auto travel are going to become more and more expensive over the next few years, having a functioning rail station will be very important.
25 June 2008
at 7:56 a.m.
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Bowhunter99 (Anonymous) says…
Any time someone wants to give you a big building for a $1…. RUN away fast!!!
They don't want to spend the 600K to fix it so they're looking for a fool to do so.
I'd say the only way to buy it is if it comes with one million dollars attached to it so it can be rennovated and ran for 3-5 years…
Then and Only then, $1 would be a 'bargain'.
25 June 2008
at 7:58 a.m.
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hawkperchedatriverfront (Anonymous) says…
Two hundred thousand would fix the building and clean it up IF the city workers were used and supervised. The problem with the city being involved at all is that when the commisson gets done, some local architect will need to be employed who is looking for work, that's going to be 200,000 for a study before “plans”. Then the plumbers needing work, then a contractor, when the city is done, it will cost more than 2 million dollars. Isn't it interesting that the commission thinks the building can be rehabbed for $200,000 but this same commission doesn' have the guts to put $200,000 into the present library building for carpet shamoo, sidewalk replacement, bathroom tiling and some general cleaning. This commission is in a sorry state. If Chestnut is serious, he now is becoming the brightest. I hope is NO vote is for real and not for show!
Message to SUE. If the city is in dire financial straits, it isn't because you weren't warned over two years ago, hon!. Quit running off out of town investors and you might get an influx of money into town. VOTE NO for the sales tax. Shop out of town. The Ft Worth line is “worth”less.
25 June 2008
at 8:07 a.m.
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Marion (Marion Lynn) says…
Below links *ALL* to LJW articles which concern the budget problems facing the City of Lawrence, Kansas:
http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2008/apr…
http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2008/feb…
City Budget Oulook Worsens
http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2007/jun…
And quoting from the immedite above citation:
“The prospect of a 2008 tax rate increase for Lawrence residents became a bit more likely after city commissioners Tuesday learned additional details about the city's budget woes.
Commissioners were told that a preliminary analysis found it would take about a 1 mill increase in the city's property tax rate to maintain existing city services. Without it, they were told major cuts to the Lawrence Transit System would be needed, and that city employees would have to go without a raise for the second time in the last three years.”
25 June 2008
at 8:11 a.m.
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OldEnuf2BYurDad (Anonymous) says…
“the city could benefit economically from having an attractive depot just three blocks from downtown”
How many depots three blocks from downtown does one small town need? We have one already.
Tear it down.
25 June 2008
at 8:19 a.m.
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Marion (Marion Lynn) says…
Someone around town used to have one of the stamped sheet-metal gas stations, all disassembled in a stack in his barn or barnyard.
Such a building would be of far more historic significance than the old train station.
Anyone know if the steel station is still around?
25 June 2008
at 8:26 a.m.
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consumer1 (Anonymous) says…
City Commissioners, Please quit wasting my tax dollars on foolish spending and fix all of the streets.
25 June 2008
at 8:27 a.m.
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Reality_Check (Anonymous) says…
Well, those who are worried about the financing are correct. And those who want to preserve the building are also correct. So how to make it work?
As I wrote in another thread, the building is historic as all getout if you know anything about railroad history. And, the number of Amtrak passengers is rising dramatically. As the building is right now, it's a very embarrassing gateway to the city (like N. 2nd St. used to be for drivers).
I would think the city needs to look into federal preservation and transportation infrastructure grants. In addition, we need to look at private (incl. corporate) donations, in return for name recognition. We certainly cannot spend more than $1 right now of the city's money.
If we believe the Usual Suspects in this forum, who vote no on everything, we wouldn't have that wonderful UP depot across the river. And it is a true asset to the community, as it has been for 127 years.
25 June 2008
at 8:29 a.m.
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The_Original_Bob (Anonymous) says…
“Any time someone wants to give you a big building for a $1:. RUN away fast!!!” Bowhunter
My dad used to say that. Funny!
—
I will buy de pot for $1. Sounds like a smoking good bargain.
25 June 2008
at 8:30 a.m.
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Marion (Marion Lynn) says…
RC:
I am in no way opposed to the preservation of this building but am 100% against using one cent of tax money in the from of local taxes or “grants” siphoned off from the federal taxes already brutally extorted from the citizens.
25 June 2008
at 8:31 a.m.
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OnlyTheOne (Anonymous) says…
aaaaauuuuuggggghhhhh!!!!!
25 June 2008
at 8:34 a.m.
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Reality_Check (Anonymous) says…
The depot represents a time when the railroads were trying, and not succeeding, to make their passenger service profitable. Rich people were taking the airlines, middle class people were taking cars, and only the poor were riding the rails. The Santa Fe tried to make rail travel fresh and exciting by spiffing up the trains and stations. They had abandoned smoky, stinky, sooty steam trains and switched to diesel electric power. And, after the 51 flood, they rebuilt the Topeka and Lawrence stations to seem more modern.
The new stations had tons of modern conveniences and used modern building techniques. The use of aluminum windows was designed to make it look like at train. Central heat and A/C were used. This one uses lots of nice wood paneling, too. The whole thing has a cool 1940s/50s retro look. And nothing needs to be changed except making it ADA compliant and repairing what's broken.
25 June 2008
at 8:36 a.m.
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offtotheright (Anonymous) says…
Purchase for a $1. Throw some cots in there for the beggers and losers hanging with Loring…call it good!
25 June 2008
at 8:38 a.m.
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Reality_Check (Anonymous) says…
Should we have torn down the UP depot 20 years ago? Should we have never improved north 2nd street as the gateway to the city? Should we have never improved our airport as a gateway to the city? According to The Usual Suspects, we shouldn't have done any of those things because they cost money. The Usual Suspects would prefer that all city government buildings we concrete block boxes similar to those of east Germany. Or maybe trailers?
I agree…we can't afford to spend city money right now. But we need a good gateway to the city for rail passengers. And I don't agree that we shouldn't accept federal money…that we paid for in taxes and fees…to renovate transportation infrastructure. (Our airport improvements were paid 90% by ticket and fuel taxes…Marion, under your logic, we shouldn't accept that funding? Please.)
25 June 2008
at 8:39 a.m.
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samsnewplace (Anonymous) says…
My thanks first of all to Mr. Chestnut who seems to be the only one thinking!
Hawk I loved your post, and you are more than correct, i'm sure we will need a study/survey done for $$$$$ and then lets spend, spend, spend for all the private contractors we can find to make it a place the city can be proud of. Who's pockets will this funding come out of, yours and mine but what a buy for only a $1.
25 June 2008
at 8:42 a.m.
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Godot (Anonymous) says…
Reality_Check, if it is such an easy project, why don't you pony up your dollar bill, buy the property and fix it up yourself.
25 June 2008
at 8:48 a.m.
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just_another_bozo_on_this_bus (Anonymous) says…
BNSF has no need for a passenger rail station— they aren't in that business. That's why they are willing to sell if for a dollar, and they likely get some good tax write-offs, as well.
25 June 2008
at 8:51 a.m.
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fu7il3 (Anonymous) says…
The railways are dying. Nothing is going to change that. If the city does this, all they'll have is several hundred thousand dollars invested in an example of 1950's architecture. Yay. What history…
25 June 2008
at 8:51 a.m.
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deskboy04 (Anonymous) says…
Great idea!
25 June 2008
at 8:55 a.m.
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monkeyhawk (Anonymous) says…
“The irresponsibility of this decision is breathtaking.”
Worth repeating….
Absolutely irresponsible. Is the city pandering to these far left groups in hopes of appeasing some of the “developer friendly” decisions that may be unpopular with these small, loudmouth factions? A little payoff perhaps, or is the city so desperate to be something? Lawrence is definitely becoming more insignificant by the day, and the more the city sucks our wallets dry, the greater the exodus. Then who will be left to fund these outrageous wishes and dreams? No wonder some people who live here truly despise it, and are only inspired by the vision of that last glance of Lawrence in the rear view mirror.
25 June 2008
at 8:56 a.m.
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50YearResident (Anonymous) says…
How is Lawrence going to benefit from owning this building?
Is there income coming in to the present owners?
Will there be income coming for the city of Lawrence?
What will be the Property Tax Loss be?
25 June 2008
at 9 a.m.
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just_another_bozo_on_this_bus (Anonymous) says…
“The railways are dying.”
The news of their death is greatly exaggerated.
25 June 2008
at 9:01 a.m.
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fu7il3 (Anonymous) says…
If the railway was making money off the depot, they wouldn't be selling it for a dollar.
25 June 2008
at 9:02 a.m.
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Marion (Marion Lynn) says…
Reality_check wrote:
” And I don't agree that we shouldn't accept federal money:that we paid for in taxes and fees:to renovate transportation infrastructure. (Our airport improvements were paid 90% by ticket and fuel taxes:Marion, under your logic, we shouldn't accept that funding? Please.)”
Marion writes:
I am saying that such extorted monies should be spent wisely and I do not think that the use of extorted monies for this proposed project as representing wise spending in light of the many other needs of the City.
25 June 2008
at 9:05 a.m.
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just_another_bozo_on_this_bus (Anonymous) says…
“If the railway was making money off the depot, they wouldn't be selling it for a dollar.”
They are a freight-only railway. Of course they don't make money from the depot.
25 June 2008
at 9:10 a.m.
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fu7il3 (Anonymous) says…
I'm sure Amtrak pays to use the depot. If they were paying enough that BNSF could pay upkeep and make a profit, they wouldn't be selling the depot. I don't see how this depot is going to bring money into the city, but I can see how it is going to remove plenty, when supposedly we have none to spend.
25 June 2008
at 9:29 a.m.
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compmd (Anonymous) says…
The ignorance in this thread is flat out astounding.
1) This depot is on a completely different rail line than the depot in North Lawrence. Its a BNSF depot, and the one in North Lawrence is UP.
2) Thousands of people come through the station every year.
3) The number or rail passenger is projected to increase. Today, only a couple years after Amtrak considered shutting down the Southwest Chief, the train is often booked solid from here to Chicago months in advance.
4) People talk about a train line from here to Kansas City. That's exactly what the BNSF line is.
I don't think that the city should have to foot the entire bill for BNSF's lack of maintenance, but the station should be kept in good shape. There are plenty of other very old train stations kept in good condition. The suburban stations on the UP-North line on Chicago's Metra system are in fantastic shape, and they are decades older than our BNSF station.
25 June 2008
at 9:29 a.m.
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KCKANSAN (Anonymous) says…
Some comments and information:
“Staff members say renovations and repairs could be expensive”. Does this mandate that the city bear the entire cost? Is the cost estimate an exaggeration?. Left unsaid is a fair and balanced consideration of the opportunity being presented to Lawrence.
First, consider the other estimated cost: $60k in annual maintenance. Anyone wanna bet money that BNSF has been spending $60,000 a year on this building for the last 30 years?
Second: There is federal and state renovation money available to offset most of the costs, BUT only if the City owns the building. BNSF isn't eligible so this property will continue to languish. Federal and state funds are available from the Kansas Transportation Enhancement Act, and the Federal Passenger Rail Improvement and Reform Act. There is new federal legislation that will pay for up to 80% of costs for siding, signal, and station improvements.
Third: The building is fundamentally in solid condition and the improvement requirements are cosmetic except for the roof leak. No one is really considering restoring this building as a renovated (don't touch!) museum piece. What is desired is a general facelift for the building and the parking area. Other communities, a lot less affluent than Lawrence, are doing this right now: Strong City secured KTEA grant last summer, Sedalia began work on their station in May. Does Lawrence have an inferiority issue believe it can't pull off a rather simple project? A single right turn lane in Olathe is going to cost $435,000 (contract just awarded). For that money Lawrence can have a renovated station.
The “ADA compliance” issue is a fourth push button issue be pimped by the naysayers. Someone posted a comment that they didn't even know this station exists. They also might not know that Amtrak arrives at the station daily (albeit at night). The station IS largely ADA compliant-it's one level, and doesn't require anything extraordinary in comparison to other Amtrak stations. Out in Arizona, Amtrak drops passengers off on a concrete platform in the middle of the night. The only creature comfort, there, is a pole with a light, and an on off switch. IF the Lawrence station needs an ADA improvement, it might be necessary to make alterations to the bathrooms. If this and/ or maybe the roof repair adds up to $600,000 then I'm going to get me a roofing and plumbing license, bid this job and make a quick half million.
Depot Redux organized to sponsor, fundraise, secure and support the station. Similar organizations exists in many other cities. If you don't think my statements are credible, then check it out for yourself: Kirkwood, Missouri; Norman, Oklahoma; Strong City (in progress); and Sedalia, Missouri (in progress.)
25 June 2008
at 9:30 a.m.
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just_another_bozo_on_this_bus (Anonymous) says…
BNSF is a business. They do only what's best for their bottom line.
Lawrence is a city, and they do what benefits the citizens of Lawrence.
Owning and renovating a passenger depot does little or nothing for a freight railway. Doing so could provide many benefits for the citizens of Lawrence.
Hence, the change of ownership.
25 June 2008
at 9:30 a.m.
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blue73harley (Anonymous) says…
Dear Commissioners - I think you need to hire a consultant, as usual, before proceeding. I am available for, say, a mere $50K. Have your people contact my people.
25 June 2008
at 9:35 a.m.
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fu7il3 (Anonymous) says…
“2) Thousands of people come through the station every year.”
3700 is a little over ten people a day. I doubt that will cover the 60 grand in operational and maintenance costs per year. And the number isn't projected to increase unless a proposal to have an OKC to KC train materializes. The city would be putting an awful lot of faith in that proposal if they expect to actual get revenue from this thing.
25 June 2008
at 9:38 a.m.
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Marion (Marion Lynn) says…
I will do the consultation on this matter for a mere $40K.
You're underbid, Blue!
25 June 2008
at 9:43 a.m.
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logicsound04 (Anonymous) says…
In this developer-crazed city, is there really no private investor that is interested in taking this on?
I believe the city has a role to play in preserving this building and paving the way for it's future commercial use as gas prices remain high, but paying for it is not the correct role.
The city would do better to try and entice local investors and developers to look at the project rather than trying to foot the bill themselves when the city is already in a budget crunch.
25 June 2008
at 9:49 a.m.
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barrypenders (Anonymous) says…
How many pot holes can be fixed with the money that is about to be pissed away on this folly?
Sell to Amtrack for a buck and let them spruce it up.
25 June 2008
at 10:16 a.m.
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JackRipper (Anonymous) says…
For those who think rail is dead again the numbers are up. Amazing what happens when the playing field is made just a tad bit more level.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/st…
As eager as this commission is for this project I just wonder if there isn't an alternative motive driving this. I can't see these guys being interested in train stations.
25 June 2008
at 10:40 a.m.
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frwent (Anonymous) says…
Barrypenders, Amtrak will tear it down and petition the city to put up one of those cute little bus stop kiosk thingys. They have done this in many other communities. To the contributor who made the statement “the railways are dying”, I would say YOU need to change your whiskey. Fact is, since we as a nation have sold our commerce and a lot of our industry to China, the nation's railroads have experienced a huge upturn in business hauling all that Wal-Mart crap into the interior for customers seeking the lowest possible price. And depspite the governer's kiss-up to the looney left, they are doing pretty well hauling a lot of coal to a lot of coal- fired electric generating plants. The railroads are doing fine, get your mentality out of the 1060's
As for the depot, this is a two-sided debate. Of course the city commission is going to go along with the instructions of the city manager and staff, they do not have the ability to do anything else. But the prospect of $10.00 (or more) a gallon gasoline coupled with the head-in-the-sand attitude of most folks regarding finding new renewable energy sources for use when the oil finally runs out (it is a finite and limited resource) rail travel will probably overcome the present attitude on “one person-one car”. The airlines will own a lot of useless metal tubes with wings, gas fueled autos will be useful only as boat anchors, and people will be doing a lot of walking or traveling by the same method our ancestors did 100 years ago when the railways were the great new way to get from Lawrence to Topeka in less than a day's travel. So it is a crap-shoot. “Hey, great deal an old building for a buck (no thought to the maintenance and upkeep) or “sooner or later, travel by rail will be necessary, not optional”. But you can always trust our city commissioners to make the wrong decision, they are best at that.
25 June 2008
at 10:40 a.m.
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BigPrune (Anonymous) says…
Sell to Amtrack for $1.00, or sell it to the homeless coalition so the bums have a place to live.
Or, just tear it down. Not enough people use that crappy old building to justify spending $600,000 fixing it. I will give BNSF $2.00 for it, but the City would disallow anything for it since they wouldn't be the owner, kind of like what they're doing to crappy Farmland.
25 June 2008
at 10:54 a.m.
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bearded_gnome (Anonymous) says…
well,
if merrill is for this, then we all should “get on board!” [pun intended!]
because of course merrill is such a farsighted leader: he wants rolling blackouts to force us to save electricity; and nearby the station, was the 700 block of ny, he said that broken streets serve as passive traffic calming devices!
***
The “ADA compliance” issue is a fourth push button issue be pimped by the naysayers. Someone posted a comment that they didn't even know this station exists.
They also might not know that Amtrak arrives at the station daily (albeit at night). The station IS largely ADA compliant-it's one level, and doesn't require
anything extraordinary in comparison to other Amtrak stations. Out in Arizona, Amtrak drops passengers off on a concrete platform in the middle of the
night. The only creature comfort, there, is a pole with a light, and an on off switch. IF the Lawrence station needs an ADA improvement, it might be necessary
to make alterations to the bathrooms. If this and/ or maybe the roof repair adds up to $600,000 then I'm going to get me a roofing and plumbing license,
bid this job and make a quick half million.
last night, the bill for ADA compliance was given by city staff: $400., 000 reality, bet more like $750,000.
we're supposed to vote for a sales tax increase to fix basic infrastructure while city money is thrown away on this liberal pipedream? riiiiiiiight.
you touting the good of fed grants, how many of them, like the rail trail thingy, require *matching money? so, still draining our local pool of money!
I was like godot, I didn't bother to contact commissioners because this seemed so patently silly. now, though, they'll be hearing from me.
the deal isn't done!
and, in calculating that one million $ cost for the building, did it account for the loss of annual property tax on the building?
yes, i do believe that amtrak was leasing/renting access to that building. apparently, they in their own budgetary hard times, weren't offering the BNSF enough.
btw, I do agree on some of the reasons to fix up the depot, and I think we might see an increase in passengers. but every household has wants and needs. we're raising sales taxes on needs, and throwing a heck of a lot of money after a want in this depot restoration!
25 June 2008
at 10:58 a.m.
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logicsound04 (Anonymous) says…
liberal pipedream?
Gomer, do you ever have a thought that doesn't get processed through the “liberal = bad” echo chamber in your head?
25 June 2008
at 11:09 a.m.
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just_another_bozo_on_this_bus (Anonymous) says…
“As eager as this commission is for this project I just wonder if there isn't an alternative motive driving this. I can't see these guys being interested in train stations.”
This commission's main purpose is promoting bedroom sprawl. With gas prices rising, “sprawl” as an economic model is threatened, so train travel may become a necessary option for Lawrence commuters, and for growth industries. That doesn't mean they've given up on building more and more roads, though.
25 June 2008
at 11:19 a.m.
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JackRipper (Anonymous) says…
Seemed like in the old days a conservative was someone who wanted to take care of things and not squander. Is that the definition of a liberal now?
Yeah bozo, that could be it. Still think they would find something requiring it to be torn down and favorite developers being asked to come up with a $30 million train station with retail and coffee shops, hey how about throwing in a library with it too! Maybe it is time to see if property is being bought up over there by the developers.
25 June 2008
at 11:27 a.m.
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barrypenders (Anonymous) says…
The city can't afford fuel for their busses so let's buy a depot. Whats the citys next purchase Reading Rail Road?
25 June 2008
at 11:37 a.m.
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50YearResident (Anonymous) says…
Bozo says: Owning and renovating a passenger depot does little or nothing for a freight railway. Doing so could provide many benefits for the citizens of Lawrence.
Hence, the change of ownership.
Ahh, What is the benefit????
The trains will stop anyway, even if ownership remains the same. They won't move the rails.
25 June 2008
at 12:07 p.m.
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hawkperchedatriverfront (Anonymous) says…
Having ridden the train not too long ago and boarding in Lawrence. ONe passenger got on. The “hawk”. Merrill, are you sure marty kennedy is just the caretaker and not being paid? That job was offered to moi not too long ago and I politelly refused as I did not want to be tied down to going to the station at night and then again in the morning for a few buck. Ask Marty if he is doing it for free. Better yet, ask Marty why when he was on the commission he didn't direct Wildgen to send a very nice letter to Amtrak and BN to paint the buidling, and spruce up the grounds even if the inside is not being used. Fact! Folks, read this. The station in North Topeka was open to buy tickets a couple years ago and now it is closed. The agent in Topeka told me how stupid Amtrak was. He said they should close the Topeka station and keep the Lawrence station open and sell tickets from it, since there was a bigger draw from Johnson county to ride from Lawrence. Now then, we have neither. All tickets have to be bought online or go to the Union Station in Kansas City. Neither Amtrak nor any of the locat travel agents even have brains about increasing ridership. How many people in Lawrence know that they can board a train in Lawrence and take a direct trip to the Grand Canyon? Lawrence wants to promote itself as a destionaton point. How about promoting itself as a departure point. God this town is so slow and on drugs.
25 June 2008
at 12:21 p.m.
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75x55 (Anonymous) says…
blue73harley and Marion - you're both underbid.
It goes to the NON-local consultant, for 10x what you local pikers ask. It's the Larrytown way!
25 June 2008
at 12:30 p.m.
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frwent (Anonymous) says…
barrypenders, you need to update your knowledge of recent railroad history. The Reading Railroad (the real railroad, not the Monopoly board version) disappeared into the government-created Considated Railroad Corporation (Conrail) along with the Penn Central, Erie-Lackawanna, Central of New Jersey, Leheigh and Hudson River, and others) in 1975. This government-operated railroad functioned in competition with private railroad companies (Norfolk-Southern and CSX) for a number of years until, absolutely unimaginablely, they began to make a PROFIT!
No government agency can long endure making money, they are all formulated to spend money. So Conrail was broken up into segments and given to the two major eastern railroads, CSX and Norfolk Southern. An interesting footnote, the Conrail segments given to the modern day rail lines had a ghostly resemblance to the former Pennsylvania Railroad and New York Central Railroad, two eastern rail lines that merged into the Penn Central and promptly proceeded into the same bankruptcy that their original corporate entities had entered. What goes around comes around.
25 June 2008
at 12:32 p.m.
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not_holroyd (Anonymous) says…
Hawk: Next time you board that train, use your credit card on the train to buy a ticket, Saves you time and trouble. You can get off in Garden City as the train no longer stops in Syracuse, but you still can acquire some fine Hamilton County land overlooking the Arkansas River with the profits from any under-valued 1200 block Louisiana land you know about. No CDBG troubles in Syracuse. Bulldogs are the mascot. I don't know if they bite.
I still think a benefit tax district on that block up on the hill would be a great idea for the station. Call it a tiny-TIF. It would pay for the station and then some. We could put up a fountain too and call it Hawkperchedbythedepot
25 June 2008
at 12:37 p.m.
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toe (Anonymous) says…
This about the way the city spends money when the sales tax comes up for a vote.
25 June 2008
at 12:42 p.m.
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not_holroyd (Anonymous) says…
“The station in North Topeka was open to buy tickets a couple years ago and now it is closed”
>>>
You may want to check your compass, Hawk.
The North Topeka (UP) station never sold Santa Fe/Amtrack tix. Maybe that is why you can't find them there.
25 June 2008
at 12:48 p.m.
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hawkperchedatriverfront (Anonymous) says…
I would rather go to Hamilton County Illinois where history abounds unlike lawrence which pretends to have rich historical ties to some arsonist aka named Quantrill Ieven bunny black couldn't top what Quantrill did.. That idea of a TIF isn't a bad idea. Everytime someone comes forward to save a historical house a TIF district will be implemented in the neighborhood of those proposing and that money used to save the historical house. So, when Mr. Brown wants to save a house via LPA, we form a district in their respective neighborhoods and the money gleaned goes to the project in question. Kinda like what could be done for Depot Redux. Those folks maybe should look into the restoration of Coleman Beautiful.
City now has vacant: Carnegie Building, Fire station on Mass, fire station on Free STate or something like that, Masonic buidling(privately owned but with an organ still inside..!!!
News flash, move the organ to the train station, Lease to Chucky Cheese and problem sovled. You sure Martuy isn't nbeing paid? merrill?
25 June 2008
at 1:04 p.m.
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hawkperchedatriverfront (Anonymous) says…
Check your facts about the ticket selling station for Amtrak in North Topeka, hon. it's over. Not only that, a credit card cannot be used to buy a ticket in Lawrence kansas when the train arrives. No ticket sales anymore in topeka at the Amtrak station, no ticket sales in Lawrence at all , credit card or otherwise. I sure miss “its getting warmer”
Lawrence is on a slow painful death from drugs, I wish SUE would take a path to build some sidewalks. Sue, would you walk the path to the train station, on E 8th and tell us about the sidewalks around that area, not to mention the area at night. We could have the train station turned into a neighborhood meeting center which is in the worksk and charge groups $100 a night for the use of the lobby or old freight area. Marty would be the janitor for a nominal fee , like the dude at the fairgrounds. Oh, it might work, but not with the city involved., not at all.
They cannot even do anything with the Carnegie building, the fire station on Mass, the fire station on Free State, not to mention the school district and all of their empTy spaces, the town is empTy with leadership. Every commission wants their name on a plaque not realizing that the next decade or two will remove the plaque. How about a Public Library Redoux, a group that wants to clean up the current library building? Can't Corliss send the carpet cleaners at City Hall to the Library and show Flanders what clean carpet looks like? Just curious about that small matter. Tiny matter, kinda like a tiny TIF, the one that could be implemented in Mr. Brown 's neigbhorhood and all members of the LPA. Everyone check out Coleman Beautiful and see what a community can do. Lawrence is a community, sorta, that wants to have everything done for them. Show me one project in this town that the whole community came forward and donated time , money to restore something. Name it please> just curious?
25 June 2008
at 1:14 p.m.
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just_another_bozo_on_this_bus (Anonymous) says…
“Still think they would find something requiring it to be torn down and favorite developers being asked to come up with a $30 million train station with retail and coffee shops, hey how about throwing in a library with it too!”
Sadly, this is even more likely.
25 June 2008
at 1:20 p.m.
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OldEnuf2BYurDad (Anonymous) says…
“The trains will stop anyway, even if ownership remains the same. They won't move the rails.”
Exactly. Someone explain to this taxpayer how I will benefit from this.
25 June 2008
at 1:42 p.m.
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thebigspoon (Anonymous) says…
This
makes
no
sense
at
all
25 June 2008
at 2:05 p.m.
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not_holroyd (Anonymous) says…
I say put up a steel cable from 1200 block Louisiana, and string it down to the Station at 7th & New York. It is a clear shot. Put a couple of rollers on the cable tied to a bench. Viola! A cable car….at least one way. Douglas County Rapid Transit. Hire the homeless to move the bench back to the top of the Hill.
Have those students cable on down to the train station, and charge them a toll. Use the money to put up signs in gold for 1200 block neighborhood: “Most Under-Valued Lots In The State” Put some lights on the signs at night just like S.P Dinsmore did in Lucas. Charge students who take a dip in the Docking fountain extra, just for the nuisance. Make the Student Union an even bigger “transportation transfer station.”
Lots of money. Lots of taxes. Everyone is happy.
And yup, the old credit card is still good ON the train. Even for old men.
25 June 2008
at 2:13 p.m.
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Reality_Check (Anonymous) says…
Again, this thing is a public gateway to Lawrence. Rail travel is going to expand fast in an era of $5 gas. The trains are booked solid right now.
Is an unmaintained private building what we want visitors to Lawrence to hold as their first impression of the city? Why spruce up North Lawrence's 2nd St. then? Why have a nice airport? Why did we restore the UP depot?
It may not cost the city much to renovate if federal aid is available.
This whole thing about “let Amtrack [sic] have it” is ridiculous. Amtrak doesn't own property. They use facilities (tracks and stations) owned by others. Don't like it? I don't either…write your Congressman.
Think of all the towns that have public railroad stations…Dodge City and KC come to mind first. Because they are gateways, cities want them in their hands in order to protect vistors' first impressions. Why should we be any different?
Once again, the Usual Suspects, or should I say, The Naysayers, don't want any improvements to Lawrence at all. They evidently want concrete block bunkers like East Germany of the 1970s. Well, I venture to bet that most Lawrencians wouldn't care to live in such a place. We want buildings we can be proud of!
25 June 2008
at 2:19 p.m.
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Bowhunter99 (Anonymous) says…
The trains are booked solid? Pass the pipe dude….
25 June 2008
at 2:34 p.m.
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Marion (Marion Lynn) says…
svengalli (Anonymous) says:
I notice Marion is posting external links above:. I thought he told us all that he was going to police everyone else to not do this::.”
Marion writes:
Svengalli, you need to read the post, stop lying or both.
I links I posted, as clearly stated in the post, are *NOT* external but rather to articles in the LJW itself.
Your feeble attempt at spin has not gone unnoticed.
25 June 2008
at 2:43 p.m.
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KCKANSAN (Anonymous) says…
. To: OldEnuf2BYurDad (Anonymous)
I used to live in Kansas City, and back then the council put their hands down my pants and took money from me (a taxpayer) for many years to build a place for big guys to chase balls and hit balls, and some of them grope each other on the ground (or it looks that way) and they do this same thing in Lawrence (go Hawks) and worship idols-it was very liberal. So I complained and I was told many times I was an A-hole and that MCI and Arrowhead and Kaufmann are good things for the city and it makes us somebody and someplace. I thought it was wrong that I had to pay for a place that people from Lawrence used-it was my tax money. Oh the horror, the horror.
Oldenough: Please tell me I'm not stupid or an A-hole and how these billion dollar projects helped me and my next door neighbor