Obama fails Christianity test / LJWorld.com

Archive for Friday, June 13, 2008

By Cal Thomas

June 13, 2008

Barack Obama's presidential campaign plans to strike at the heart of the Republican base by attempting to woo Evangelical Christians and Roman Catholics to his side.

The Christian Broadcasting Network's David Brody first broke the story on his blog "The Brody File." Obama's campaign for the conservative Christian vote, which has largely gone to the Republican presidential candidate in recent elections, has been dubbed the "Joshua Generation Project." Joshua, Moses' successor, led the Israelites into the Promised Land. It wasn't the group that fled Egypt in the Exodus, though. They died in the wilderness, lacking faith in God's promise. It was the next generation that Joshua led into Canaan. Apparently, if we have enough faith in Obama, he will lead us all into a new America, but if we vote for John McCain, we will demonstrate a lack of faith (in Obama) and die in the political badlands.

Obama is better at biblical language and imagery than any Democrat in modern times. He certainly beats Howard Dean, now the chairman of the Democratic National Committee, who once offered Job as his favorite New Testament book. This is cynical manipulation of the devout and it is no better when Democrats do it than when Republicans use religious language for partisan advantage.

Obama has declared himself a committed Christian. He can call himself anything he likes, but there are certain markers among the evangelicals he is courting that one must meet in order to qualify for that label.

Some insight into Obama's "Christianity" comes from an interview he gave in 2004 to Chicago Sun-Times religion editor Cathleen Falsani for her book, "The God Factor: Inside the Spiritual Lives of Public People."

"I'm rooted in the Christian tradition," said Obama. He then adds something most Christians will see as universalism: "I believe there are many paths to the same place, and that is a belief that there is a higher power, a belief that we are connected as a people."

Falsani correctly brings up John 14:6 in which Jesus says of Himself, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." That sounds exclusive, but Obama says it depends on how this verse is heard. According to Falsani, Obama thinks that "all people of faith - Christians, Jews, Muslims, animists, everyone - know the same God." (Her words.)

Evangelicals and serious Catholics might ask if this is so, why did Jesus waste His time coming to Earth, suffering pain, rejection and crucifixion? If there are many ways to God, He might have sent down a spiritual version of table manners and avoided the rest.

Here's Obama telling Falsani, "The difficult thing about any religion, including Christianity, is that at some level there is a call to evangelize and proselytize. There's the belief, certainly in some quarters, that if people haven't embraced Jesus Christ as their personal savior, they're going to hell." Falsani adds, "Obama doesn't believe he, or anyone else, will go to hell. But he's not sure he'll be going to heaven, either." Again, that is contrary to what Evangelicals and most Catholics believe.

Obama can call himself anything he likes, but there is a clear requirement for one to qualify as a Christian and Obama doesn't meet that requirement. One cannot deny central tenets of the Christian faith, including the deity and uniqueness of Christ as the sole mediator between God and Man and be a Christian. Such people do have a label applied to them in Scripture. They are called "false prophets."

Cal Thomas is a columnist for Tribune Media Services.

Discussion

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13 June 2008
at 6:09 a.m.

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bondmen (Anonymous) says…

This is a good story to explain the truth about hell: http://www.av1611.org/hell.htmlBarack Hussein Obama's belief hell doesn't exists doesn't make it so!
13 June 2008
at 6:30 a.m.

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Daytrader23 (Anonymous) says…

Yes and McCain obviously passes the evangelical Christian test since he divorced his wife to marry a wealthy women 30 years younger. I thought only God was allowed to jude people. Hmm, it seems a certain group must think they are God and they can judge “how Christian are you?” Hypocrites.
13 June 2008
at 6:52 a.m.

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dulcinea47 (Anonymous) says…

Last time I checked, Christians, Muslims, and Jews *do* believe in the same god.
13 June 2008
at 6:52 a.m.

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BigPrune (Anonymous) says…

Everyone knows that Obama is a Muslim in hiding and his wife refers to European Americans as “whitey.”His name is Barack (Muslim name) Hussein (Muslim name) Obama (Muslim name). End of story.Should this guy REALLY try to court the Christian right when his big financial backer is open society moveon . org George Soros, the hedge fund manipulating socialist who gives us high gasoline prices?
13 June 2008
at 6:56 a.m.

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bondmen (Anonymous) says…

McCain sadly is mum on his religious beliefs, not unlike many in that generation. Christians all are sinners, just like those they live around. The big difference is Christians admit (confess) their sin and believe they need a Savior. Furthermore they believe Jesus Christ is that Savior.It is true sinners are hypocrites but Christians would never let a hypocrite come between them and their Savior Jesus.It is time to refresh.What Do Christians Believe? http://www.afcministry.com/What_do_Ch…
13 June 2008
at 7:07 a.m.

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TomShewmon (Tom Shewmon) says…

The Audacity of Fraud. No amount of fraudulence could hurt Obama now. Obamania has reached fever pitch. Campaign on corrupt liberal media!
13 June 2008
at 7:19 a.m.

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Oracle_of_Rhode (Anonymous) says…

Cal Thomas obviously fails this simple Christianity test…”Do not judge, lest you too be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.” [Matthew 7:1 & 2.]

13 June 2008
at 7:44 a.m.

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jonas (Anonymous) says…

“Barack Hussein Obama's belief hell doesn't exists doesn't make it so!”And your belief that it does doesn't make it so, either.
13 June 2008
at 7:48 a.m.

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Haiku_Cuckoo (Anonymous) says…

Last time I checked, Christians, Muslims, and Jews *do* believe in the same god.========Really? When you “checked”, what information did you read that said Muslims worship Jesus?
13 June 2008
at 7:48 a.m.

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bd (Anonymous) says…

daytrader23, does she have a sister?????
13 June 2008
at 7:49 a.m.

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bondmen (Anonymous) says…

Would it were only MY belief jonas!
13 June 2008
at 7:55 a.m.

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absolutelyridiculous (Anonymous) says…

Obama's prochoice stance is anything but Christian.
13 June 2008
at 8 a.m.

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jumpin_catfish (Anonymous) says…

me thinks most christians fail the christianity test
13 June 2008
at 8:22 a.m.

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acg (Anonymous) says…

And jumpin catfish wins!!
13 June 2008
at 8:23 a.m.

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gr (Anonymous) says…

“This is a good story to explain the truth about hell:”While there is a “hell”, I'm not sure that link explains the “truth” about hell. Assuming a page would be telling the truth about hell, it would use the most convincing argument. The main quote on its page is from a parable. Parables do teach truth, but that is the truth about the main point of the parable and not all the details. The details, which may or may not be true, help support or prop the main point. One should ask what the main point of Luke 16 was, or even the surrounding verses, as Jesus spoke to the Pharisees.While Obama is wrong about “hell” (look up the Greek word and alternative translations in other verses) not existing, I would have to conclude the link does not give the truth about hell and it must be looked for elsewhere. The link appears to supposedly be using support for a premise much as Obama is. Could the authors of the link have similar beliefs as the Pharisees did?

13 June 2008
at 8:29 a.m.

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frazzled (Anonymous) says…

Apparently Mr. Thomas would be happier if everyone had “Christian” or “Not Christian” marked on their driver's licenses. He, of course, would be the one to decide who gets which label.
13 June 2008
at 8:29 a.m.

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deskboy04 (Anonymous) says…

This is all silly.
13 June 2008
at 8:30 a.m.

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phenommenom (Anonymous) says…

Who cares! Who said the President has to be a Christian anyways? Religion should not matter since the “whities” invaded this country for feedom of religion!
13 June 2008
at 8:36 a.m.

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woxy (Anonymous) says…

>>>McCain sadly is mum on his religious beliefs, <<Actually, this is one of the best things about him. He's running for President, not pastor, minister, or Pope. Hopefully he'll set a precedent.
13 June 2008
at 8:36 a.m.

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ndmoderate (Anonymous) says…

Wow. A new low for Cal for sure. According to his logic, there are a lot of people in this country who aren't Christian enough for him, and in his mind, Christian enough to be a President that represents a small portion of the American people. Boo hoo, Cal. Boo hoo.Gr: Maybe you're the one who is wrong about hell? You may certainly believe whatever you wish, but flatly stating that Obama is wrong about hell only shows that his “wrongness” is your opinion. Proving the existence of hell is a tall order of the highest magnitude, don't you think?
13 June 2008
at 8:38 a.m.

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staff04 (Anonymous) says…

Cal, who fails it worse?http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1024927/The-wife-John-McCain-callously-left-behind.html
13 June 2008
at 8:41 a.m.

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arizonajh (Anonymous) says…

Haiku_Cuckoo Jews don't worship Jesus either. Jesus was the supposed to have been the “son of God” not God himself. The Jews and the Muslims do worship the “God of Abraham” as do Christains. I think that is what dulcinea47 is saying. In fact Jesus was a Jew, he never left the faith and never started his own seperate church. By this articals arguement Jesus was not fit to be President. The belief that Jesus is the sole mediator between God and man pretty much blows the Catholics out of the water also, as they believe the Priest is the conduit which a person must go to reach God, you know the whole confessional and last rights things.
13 June 2008
at 8:43 a.m.

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OnlyTheOne (Anonymous) says…

Obama is the anti-Christ

13 June 2008
at 8:48 a.m.

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craigers (Anonymous) says…

Oracle, Cal is not doing what that verse says. In the greek for judge in that verse means to condemn and Cal is not condemning Obama at all. I believe in Paul's writing we are told to judge and that we will judge things in this world. The greek work used in that case means to assess which is what Cal Thomas is doing. Nobody is condemning, simply assessing the facts of the situation.
13 June 2008
at 8:53 a.m.

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gr (Anonymous) says…

“Maybe you're the one who is wrong about hell?”As we were discussing what the Bible says about hell, ndmoderate, what do you you think the Bible says?
13 June 2008
at 8:54 a.m.

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EXks (Anonymous) says…

99.99999% of you FAIL the christianity test!!!!!!!!!!
13 June 2008
at 8:59 a.m.

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staff04 (Anonymous) says…

“and his wife refers to European Americans as “whitey.”“Wow, you are easily the stupidest person on this board. Dear jeebus, do you even bother to look into anything, or do you just swallow what the liars tell you without giving it any scrutiny?Lie:On May 30th, Rush Limbaugh said he had heard a rumor that a tape exists of Michelle Obama using the word “Whitey” from the pulpit of Trinity United Church of Christ.Truth:No such tape exists. Michelle Obama has not spoken from the pulpit at Trinity and has not used that word. ––––––––––––––––––––––––––—Lie:On May 30th, Rush Limbaugh said he had heard a rumor that a tape exists of Michelle Obama using the word “Whitey” from the pulpit of Trinity United Church of Christ.Truth:No such tape exists. Michelle Obama has not spoken from the pulpit at Trinity and has not used that word.––––––––––––––––––––––––––—Lie:Blogger Larry Johnson wrote on May 31st that he would add “New and dramatic developments. This is a heads up. I'll post the news Monday morning by 0900 hours. Now I know why people who have seen the videotape say it is stunning. Barack's headaches are only starting.”Read the postTruth:Johnson posted no such update.––––––––––––––––––––––––––—Lie:Roger Stone said on Fox News on June 1st that “there's a buzz, which I believe now to be credible, that some indelible record exists” of a tape of Michelle Obama using the term “whitey.” Truth:Stone conceded on June 2nd that he hasn't met anyone who has seen the alleged tape and that it therefore may be a hoax.Lie:Blogger Larry Johnson wrote on May 31st that he would add “New and dramatic developments. This is a heads up. I'll post the news Monday morning by 0900 hours. Now I know why people who have seen the videotape say it is stunning. Barack's headaches are only starting.”Truth:Johnson posted no such update.
13 June 2008
at 9:03 a.m.

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guesswho (Anonymous) says…

I like this:If I tell you that, for example, I refuse to eat meat because it makes animals suffer, and then you see me eating a hot dog, you would be justified to call me a hypocrite. The same thing is true for Christians. To say that God exists is to be an atheist towards all other gods. So it is an inconsistent and hypocrite position. You claim faith in one god but not in the others, even though they all require faith. You should either believe in all gods or in none of themborrowed from: http://goosetheantithesis.blogspot.co…, there are 6.5 billion people in the world. 33% are Christians (meaning the majority in the world are not). 5.78% of them are Protestant, and not sure how many of them are evengelical. Pretty small group of people to tell the rest of the world how to think or believe.
13 June 2008
at 9:04 a.m.

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ndmoderate (Anonymous) says…

You were discussing the Bible, gr, until you brought up Obama's “wrongness.” The Bible has nothing to do with Obama's campaign, nor should it. America is not a Christian nation. You are welcome to discuss what the Bible says about hell with bondmen, but I fail to see how that applies to the current Presidential election.The Bible says what it says. You are welcome to believe it or not.
13 June 2008
at 9:05 a.m.

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Godot (Anonymous) says…

Looks like staff04 got a new gig on Obama's rumor suppression team. All that experience spreading false rumors about Bush and Cheney has apparently paid off.
13 June 2008
at 9:05 a.m.

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craigers (Anonymous) says…

duplenty, I am simply telling you what those scriptures actually mean. There isn't a middle ground on whether somebody is Christian. If they accept Christ as their personal Lord and Savior, then they are Christians. Obviously, if you feel the need to accept Christ as your Savior then you feel that Christ is the only way. If you truly feel that way, then how can you say that there are many ways to get to heaven? If Christ is your Savior, then you must embrace all of his teachings which includes only one way to heaven.

13 June 2008
at 9:07 a.m.

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EXks (Anonymous) says…

This just in, from jesus ITself…..G Dumbya Bush & Dickey Cheney and their gang FAILS the christianity test!
13 June 2008
at 9:10 a.m.

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staff04 (Anonymous) says…

Godot-Please point to one, just one “false rumor” that I have spread about Bush and/or Cheney. Otherwise, you are a liar.Care to refute anything I posted in response to BigPrune's crapful post? If you can, I welcome it.Get back to the drawing board….
13 June 2008
at 9:13 a.m.

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BABBOY (Anonymous) says…

In the words Ozzy Osburn:”Rock in Rolli is my religion and my soul, you cannot kill rock and roll”I do not judge people by their religion. I judge them by the conduct and actions.Boys and girls, if I wanted another nut job calling himself religious and telling me what I need to do in that regard in office, I would vote for Bush. This debate has no more relevance to me then watching little kids fight with each other on a play ground.
13 June 2008
at 9:16 a.m.

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EXks (Anonymous) says…

Faux (Fixed ) News FAILS the christianity testRush LIMPbaugh FAILS the christianity test
13 June 2008
at 9:18 a.m.

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mancityfooty (Corey Williams) says…

This would all be a lot easier if god would just show up and give a little press conference. No more arguments about abortion, euthanasia, same-sex marriage, evolution/creation, or on the subject of god's existence and preferred faith. Too bad god hasn't decided to put anything in writing in the last two thousand years (give or take a few hundred).
13 June 2008
at 9:29 a.m.

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compmd (Anonymous) says…

I feel like I lost IQ points by reading this article and the majority of the comments.duplenty, thank you for non-idiotic posts.
13 June 2008
at 9:31 a.m.

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RETICENT_IRREVERENT (Anonymous) says…

I take it this is not a multiple choice test.What is considered a passing score?
13 June 2008
at 9:31 a.m.

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gr (Anonymous) says…

“You were discussing the Bible, gr, until you brought up Obama's “wrongness.” “Are you saying it is impossible for Obama to make a statement which disagrees with the Bible? Or that he was discussing the Bible? Is it impossible to say a statement someone just made to Falsani has no support of the Bible?”The Bible has nothing to do with Obama's campaign, nor should it. “I agree, it should not. Do you disagree with Obama's attempt “to woo Evangelical Christians and Roman Catholics to his side” or the article's accusation of such?”America is not a Christian nation. “What brought that on? Are you anti-Obama, then? And anti-Clintion and anti-McCain as far as that goes?”You are welcome to discuss what the Bible says about hell with bondmen, “Umm, I thought I was.”but I fail to see how that applies to the current Presidential election.” I believe the article and Falsani were discussing the beliefs of Obama and the Bible. Do you disagree with where the article or Falsani was going with it or with what the attitude of Obama with the election is?”The Bible says what it says. You are welcome to believe it or not.”Apparently Obama and you do not - one more so than the other?

13 June 2008
at 9:43 a.m.

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jafs (Anonymous) says…

Interesting.All the article said was that Obama's stated beliefs do not sound like Christianity to the author.I would think (and hope) that there might be a variety of ways to be “Christian”, but certainly some beliefs about Christ may be central.If Obama wants to court the religious right, he should expect this kind of scrutiny.It would be nice if we could evaluate candidates without evaluating their religious beliefs, but apparently we're not there yet in America.And, the issue here for Obama may be honesty, not religious belief.
13 June 2008
at 9:51 a.m.

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ndmoderate (Anonymous) says…

“Are you saying it is impossible for Obama to make a statement which disagrees with the Bible?”No. I don't know how you came up with that question.”Or that he was discussing the Bible?”No.”Is it impossible to say a statement someone just made to Falsani has no support of the Bible?”It's possible, but has no effects on people who don't believe in the Bible. They are Americans too.”Do you disagree with Obama's attempt “to woo Evangelical Christians and Roman Catholics to his side” Yes. He should try to woo all Americans without dividing them up into nice little groups.”America is not a Christian nation. “What brought that on?”I like to state a few facts each day for the general enjoyment of my fellow anonymous posters. It also drives me nuts that many Americans let their vote ride on the particular religion of a candidate.”Are you anti-Obama, then? And anti-Clintion and anti-McCain as far as that goes?”In a lot of ways, yes. I don't think any candidate for public office should have to deal with religion. Religion should be left up to individual people, and the government should stay out—and vice versa.”I believe the article and Falsani were discussing the beliefs of Obama and the Bible. Do you disagree with where the article or Falsani was going with it or with what the attitude of Obama with the election is?”See my previous answers.You are welcome to believe it or not.”Apparently Obama and you do not - one more so than the other?”And if I don't? I will not speak for Obama, and I don't think you or anyone else should either. Remember, I jumped into the conversation when you flatly stated that Obama was wrong about hell. If you had only said “According to my belief system, I disagree with Obama's statements about the path to heaven.” If only.
13 June 2008
at 9:54 a.m.

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temperance (Anonymous) says…

Cal out does himself again with one of the most anti-American articles I've seen of his in years. There's no religious litmus test for public office. That's how the Taliban does things, and I invite Cal (and select LJW commenters) to join them if they don't feel like their government is theocratic enough.
13 June 2008
at 9:54 a.m.

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craigers (Anonymous) says…

duplenty, the first sentence was the only thing directly stated to you. The rest is a hypothetical situation.
13 June 2008
at 10:14 a.m.

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BigPrune (Anonymous) says…

Max1,Should this guy REALLY try to court the Christian right when his big financial backer is open society moveon . org George Soros, the hedge fund manipulating socialist who gives us high gasoline prices to influence the election in Barack Hussein Obama's favor ?Barack - Barraq, ShiningBarack - Barakah, Blessing Hussein - Handsome, Beautiful Obama - Michelle didn't say “whitey,” she said “honky.” I stand corrected.
13 June 2008
at 10:30 a.m.

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alm77 (Anonymous) says…

Christians today, especially the 20-somethings and early 30's, are more concerned with what the President will do about social issues than if he, himself is a evangelical. W played the “Jesus card” with us and look what that got us. We're not interested in our next President's faith as much as we are his social agenda. This generation of Christians is reaching people with the Gospel through personal relationships and working with non Christians for good social causes without a second thought.
13 June 2008
at 10:44 a.m.

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arizonajh (Anonymous) says…

Big Prune”Michelle didn't say “whitey,” she said “honky.” I stand corrected”Have a link or citation for that?Big - adj - exhibiting self imprtance (ex “Big talk”)Big - adj - feeling self-importance (ex “Too big for his britches”)Prune - A dried plum - usually injested to increase the amount of excrement discarged by the bodyFun little word games huh?
13 June 2008
at 10:49 a.m.

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BigPrune (Anonymous) says…

arizonajhOh, she didn't say “whitey” or “honkey,” it was “cracker.”Prune - Also slang for…..

13 June 2008
at 10:58 a.m.

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arizonajh (Anonymous) says…

Barack - BarakMeans “lightning” in Hebrew. This was the name of a military commander in the Old Testament.BaruchMeans “blessed” in Hebrew. In the Old Testament this is the name of a companion of the prophet Jeremiah. The apocryphal Book of Baruch was supposedly written by him.Bearach - BerachDerived from Gaelic biorach meaning “sharp”. This was the name of a 6th-century Irish saint.The specific spelling of B-A-R-A-C-K has no etomogy of it's own. It is a name or variant that is found in Jewish, Irish, Armenian, Turkish, West African, Danish, Norwegian, Icelandic, Swedish, French, Scottish, English and yes Arabic.
13 June 2008
at 11:06 a.m.

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arizonajh (Anonymous) says…

Obama - Dholuo (Kenyan Luo)based on a word meaning “crooked” or “slightly bent”. It was possibly originally given to a baby who had an arm or leg that looked slightly bent immediately after birth.
13 June 2008
at 11:15 a.m.

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acg (Anonymous) says…

I like duplenty more and more with each of his/her posts.
13 June 2008
at 12:31 p.m.

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storm (Anonymous) says…

I don't see a problem with failing a Christianity test. Ultimately, it's how you live your life. If you choose a religion as an excuse to make you good, so what?
13 June 2008
at 12:53 p.m.

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malehrman (Matt Lehrman) says…

This commentary is exactly the reason Cal Thomas should be dropped immediately from syndication in the LJ World. What exactly does this piece contribute to the campaign? The headline alone raises should disqualify Thomas from appearing on the editorial page.The “Christianity” to which Mr. Thomas refers is very narrowly defined and certainly not inclusive of all Christians by any stretch of the imagination. Not even all evangelical Christians would agree with what he writes. He appears to be writing about the Christian beliefs of a vocal group of evangelical Christians that have been well represented in national politics over the last eight years but are not representative of all evangelicals or all Christians.This commentary only detracts from the campaign discourse and serves to reinforce negative opinions about politics, politicians and elections. There is a presidential election in November with important issues being debated. Cal Thomas scrapes at the bottom of the barrel to make an argument and he doesn't even make a compelling argument in doing so. He does not deserve space on the editorial page if he has nothing to contribute. Plenty of columnists, conservative and liberal, who offer actual analysis and constructive criticism, I'd be willing to read anyone else at this point.This is trash at best and it is a shame the LJ World prints it.
13 June 2008
at 1:19 p.m.

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Uhlrick_Hetfield_III (Anonymous) says…

The only requirement for being a Christian that I know of is to sincerely profess Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior. There are no other tests, nor can you achieve the status by good deeds (a very Jewish concept that perhaps should have been kept on). Obama, like all of us is a sinner. That's why we need a Savior to take away our sins and place them on his shoulders. So unless the argument is made that he has not sincerely embraced Jesus as his Lord and Savior, I think he made the grade. Personally, I wasn't aware that he was running for Christian.
13 June 2008
at 1:26 p.m.

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Bossa_Nova (Anonymous) says…

i'm not a xtian. does that mean i also failed the xtianity test?
13 June 2008
at 1:28 p.m.

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gr (Anonymous) says…

This is for ndmoderate:According to the Bible, Obama's statement of there being no hell is wrong. What “hell” is, he did not define as far as this article goes.

13 June 2008
at 1:32 p.m.

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Bossa_Nova (Anonymous) says…

jesus' 12 desciples were not xtians either. nor did they ever pray to jesus. do they also not pass the xtian test?
13 June 2008
at 1:38 p.m.

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dandelion (Anonymous) says…

Haiku_Cuckoo (Anonymous) says:Last time I checked, Christians, Muslims, and Jews *do* believe in the same god.========Really? When you “checked”, what information did you read that said Muslims worship Jesus?So, what church do you go to? Christians believe in only 1 god. Jesus is the son of god, not a god. That would create 2 gods. You fail the Christian test for sure.
13 June 2008
at 1:45 p.m.

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ndmoderate (Anonymous) says…

The headline of this editorial piece has been bugging me. I think for full disclosure it should instead say:”Obama Fails Evangelical Nut-Job Version of Christianity Test.”
13 June 2008
at 2:22 p.m.

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jonas (Anonymous) says…

bondmen (Anonymous) says:”Would it were only MY belief jonas!”Would that there was no hell be only my belief, bondman. I think we'll both find plenty of support for our position, is all that's required is numbers alone. There was plenty of support for the sun revolving around the earth at one point, too.
13 June 2008
at 2:52 p.m.

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Confrontation (Anonymous) says…

Considering how screwed up our Conservetard Christian presidents have been and what they've done to this country, I'm glad to see that Obama failed the Christian*insanity test.
13 June 2008
at 2:58 p.m.

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archy (Anonymous) says…

my my mysomebody ran the red flag up for the bullssort of like the time the boss left a cinnamon roll near the keyboardarchy
13 June 2008
at 3:21 p.m.

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heysoos (Anonymous) says…

http://anotherrandomday.com/?id=100
13 June 2008
at 3:28 p.m.

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Bossa_Nova (Anonymous) says…

dandelion,lets take it a step further. xtians also believe in the holy ghost. hmmmm, so are they counting all three as a god? how does one explain the trinity by the way? 1+1+1 = 1 god? confrontation, i like the new word, “christiansity”. you rock dude!

13 June 2008
at 3:52 p.m.

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denak (Anonymous) says…

Thank you, Uhlrick for finally stating the one thing that Cal and quite a few people seem to be forgetting. And it only took 7 hrs to do it.There is only one “test” to prove if someone is a Christian. An individual is a Christian if he or she accepts the Lord Jesus as their Lord and Savior. That's it. Everything else is details. One can profess anything, do all the good deeds in the world, believe or not believe in Hell, and still not be a Christian.And the only “person” who knows whether or not someone is truly a Christian is God because God knows what is in a person's heart.Dena
13 June 2008
at 4:03 p.m.

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ylimeh (Anonymous) says…

“Personally, I wasn't aware that he was running for Christian.” – Thank you!Just reading the title of this article confirmed my belief that an Atheist president would do our country well. Maybe the media would discuss things other than gossip. Maybe we'd actually accomplish a thing or two.
13 June 2008
at 4:04 p.m.

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bd (Anonymous) says…

internut pays he is the anti-christ!
13 June 2008
at 4:14 p.m.

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jonas (Anonymous) says…

Bossa_Nova (Anonymous) says:”lets take it a step further. xtians also believe in the holy ghost. hmmmm, so are they counting all three as a god? how does one explain the trinity by the way? 1+1+1 = 1 god?”One god with three linked aspects. That's pretty easy. If you're going to believe in a god, thinking he could have multiple faces shouldn't be so hard.
13 June 2008
at 4:18 p.m.

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ndmoderate (Anonymous) says…

Speaking of Evangelical Nut-Job Version of Christianity…parkay, everyone!
13 June 2008
at 4:23 p.m.

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fleeba (Anonymous) says…

it's really quite funny to see how many on the right are so filled with racist hate that their gobbling up ridiculously transparent internet rumors and frothing at the mouth to elect a bumbling, incompetent old man who can't even remember his own daily contradictions.it makes me think that perhaps they do indeed deserve the fantastic disaster that would be the McCain presidency. It would serve them right for gorging themselves on their own ignorant bigotry.
13 June 2008
at 4:33 p.m.

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dandelion (Anonymous) says…

I'm a Christian (although Cal wouldn't think so). I follow Jesus' teachings which which makes me not Christian enough, since that's more important to me than his death.
13 June 2008
at 4:37 p.m.

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dandelion (Anonymous) says…

Obama isn't courting your “Christian Right” hate groups that McCain had so eagerly begged for endorsements. They are clearly all yours, and you can have them.And McCain had to bend over backwards and change his stand on many things to get those endorsements. I thought waffling was a bad thing to the right wingers?

13 June 2008
at 4:41 p.m.

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KEITHMILES05 (Anonymous) says…

Parkay…..that was quite a rant you had. Did you spend hours thinking that up? LMAODandelion….I love what you wrote. “Not being Christian enough” is the whole problem with Christianity. So many people are caught into the doing better than the Jones deal.
13 June 2008
at 5:01 p.m.

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Bossa_Nova (Anonymous) says…

jonas, concerning your idea of god with three linked aspects i am confused. if you read the old testament God is pretty ademant that he is 1 and only 1. there's no mention of jesus or trinitarion versions of God in the OT. actually there's no mention of the trinity in the NT either. so going back to your god with interlinked aspects, were those aspects interlinked at the time of creation in the book of genesis? was there a trinity at the time of creation? was jesus part of the trinity at the time of creation? why is this not clearly explained by xtians? honestly, does the whole xtian philosophy make any sense about God coming down as a man-god to save the world with a blood sacrifice and a holy ghost that no one knows anything about. does it make any sense at all that the only way to obtain God's forgiveness enter the kingdom of heaven is if you accept jesus? seriously, is that not putting constraints on the abilities of God? that reminds me of tales of ancient mythology or the land of narnia. let's call a spade a spade and admit to the fact that xtian mythology is just a mixture of roman mythology and judaism. all of these ideas about jesus being a man-god sacrificing himself for the sake of the world is an old story retold over and over for thousands of years each time being repackaged with a new and improved version with different names, places, traditions, etc. the case with xtiansity is that this time its been mixed with a little judaism and roman imperialism to get trinitarion xtiansity. go study greek/roman mythology at the time when the first xtians started popping up and you will see the connection. i'm so glad i saw the light and dropped out of seminary!
13 June 2008
at 5:08 p.m.

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kugrad (Anonymous) says…

Funny, I grew up Christian in a long line of Christians and even attended parochial school, but I never ever knew there was a test for being a Christian. Thank God for sending his prophet Cal Thomas to enlighten his people about “the” test and, since no one else seems to know about it, to let us know who has, well, who has NOT passed it.
13 June 2008
at 5:57 p.m.

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Strontius (Anonymous) says…

As a secular person who led the only atheist/agnostic student group at KU for three years and was a board member of a national secular group called the “Secular Student Alliance”, nothing was more apparent in my interactions with Christians and other religious people that every person had practically developed their own religion and called it whatever they wanted. That's not to say that you can't find large numbers of Christians who agree with each other, but that it's extremely rare to find two Christians who agree on everything. Christians have never at any point in history agreed on a uniform theology. That's the price you pay when a religion has to be interpreted. I've met Christians who come from both sides of the political and economic spectrum, and no matter what you tell them, they stick very strongly to that Christian identification. Of course, anyone is free to set whatever standards they want for what it takes for someone to be called a “Christian”, but that doesn't matter to the people who disagree. Ultimately I've found that people's beliefs and values are pretty much whatever they want them to be. It's not too likely that someone who believes that Jesus is the only way to get to heaven thinks such a reality is unjust or wrong, for example.
13 June 2008
at 6:41 p.m.

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Newell_Post (Anonymous) says…

I think the LJW persists in running these pieces by Cal Thomas because he is the only syndicated columnist they can find who makes Dolph Simons, Jr. look like a Rhodes Scholar.
13 June 2008
at 6:45 p.m.

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jonas (Anonymous) says…

bossa-nova: I don't you think you need me at all, you seem quite capable of having a complete conversation, all by yourself >B^)>From what I remember or understand, God split himself or his divine entity or whatnot to create Jesus and redeem the world, so he was split into 3 parts until Jesus died and was resurrected, or something like that. It's been a loong time since I've paid much attention to the particulars.
13 June 2008
at 7:24 p.m.

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malehrman (Matt Lehrman) says…

Also, to add to my earlier comment, Thomas wrote a book last year called “Common Ground: How to Stop the Partisan War That Is Destroying America” and still felt justified in writing garbage like this. I wonder how he would reconcile that title with this “column.”
13 June 2008
at 7:44 p.m.

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George_Braziller (Anonymous) says…

I don't give a crap if he knows christian dogma. Does he know what's in the Constitution and the amendments? Does he understand the powers and responsibilities (and limits) of what it means to be president? Does he respect the powers of the three branches of the US government?

13 June 2008
at 7:58 p.m.

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guesswho (Anonymous) says…

Jonas,What God did by splitting himself - is that like a horcrux?
13 June 2008
at 8:03 p.m.

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TomShewmon (Tom Shewmon) says…

Fraud: One who assumes a false pose; an impostor.
13 June 2008
at 8:18 p.m.

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SouthSide (Anonymous) says…

For those who hate … the names Barack, Hussein and Obama are not “Muslim” names… they are Arab names. Many, many North African and Middle Eastern Arab Christians, some Evangelical, some priests and pastors and missionaries, have those names. Calm down hate-mongers, your argument that Barack Obama is actually Osama bin-Laden in disguise is laughable and demonstrates your political and mental weakness.
13 June 2008
at 8:27 p.m.

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Strontius (Anonymous) says…

I'm wondering: Do people really think that Obama is a socialist or is that just some pathetic attempt at hyperbole? At the very least, such a statement is ignorant, and at the worst, openly dishonest. I'm hoping it's the former, though I think it's the latter. How about we get beyond all the crap and start having some serious discussions about the future of our country rather than focusing on outdated ideological slander?
13 June 2008
at 8:31 p.m.

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Strontius (Anonymous) says…

“For those who hate : the names Barack, Hussein and Obama are not “Muslim” names: they are Arab names.”Unfortunately, you're assuming that the right-wing rednecks who post that crap know the difference between “Arab” and “Muslim”.
13 June 2008
at 8:44 p.m.

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Bossa_Nova (Anonymous) says…

Jonas”From what I remember or understand, God split himself or his divine entity or whatnot to create Jesus and redeem the world, so he was split into 3 parts until Jesus died and was resurrected, or something like that. It's been a loong time since I've paid much attention to the particulars.”hey jonas, you or your pastor made that up. thats nowhere to be found in the bible and if i remember right, i dont even think t.aquaintus even went so far as to crap out that bunch of bs. but that's ok, i understand. i used to be ignorant of my religion too back when i was a bible thumper. and i would make sh!t up too when under attack.
13 June 2008
at 9:14 p.m.

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jonas (Anonymous) says…

guesswho: Could be. Good thing he stopped at 3, though, cuz if you go on to 7 then apparently problems start to develop. bossa-nova: Haha. Bible-thumper! kyahahaha!!Whatever book it was or was not in, the holy trinity is fairly well-established. Pardon if I don't know the particulars, but I haven't been a voluntary member of the Christian religion for well over a decade. If you want a more informed opinion, then go to a priest and I'm sure they'd be happy to tell you about it.
13 June 2008
at 9:15 p.m.

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Orwell (Anonymous) says…

Hell is having to read Cal Thomas.

13 June 2008
at 9:18 p.m.

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jonas (Anonymous) says…

Bossa nova: Here, I found the wiki page for it. We all know the potential inaccuracies in wiki entries, but I'm sure that such a devotee to proper scholarship and debate will check the sources with enthusiasm, eh? I only say that because I know that you wouldn't have posted your question if you didn't actually want to know what you were asking about, right?http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trinity
13 June 2008
at 9:25 p.m.

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jonas (Anonymous) says…

UhClem: Wait, you read the articles? Man, at this point I just see the headline on most discussed, guess it's a Cal Thomas article, and once it's confirmed I generally go straight to the commentary. Even on the few occasions I agree with what he writes, it's certainly nothing blindingly observant or thoughtful, and usually it's contradicted by his past messages anyway.
13 June 2008
at 10:02 p.m.

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yourworstnightmare (Anonymous) says…

The idea that Cal has an idea for a “christianity test” is just amusing. It confirms the worst fears that many have of christians.Cal, you fail the “rational” test but pass the “ignorant friggin' buttstain” test with flying whiteness.
13 June 2008
at 10:28 p.m.

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Godot (Anonymous) says…

Obama touts his Christian faith. That is on record. That is why it is an issue that Thomas rightfully explores.At the same time, Obama's own words show that he does not believe in the tenets of the Christian faith.I don't care if Obama is a Christian. I would rather not even know what religion he follows. However, I do care if he claims to be a Christian when he clearly disagrees with the basis for the religion. There are lots of terms for someone who does that, but the most generous one is “confused.”Obama needs one or two or several journeys in the wilderness to help him discover what he really believes.
13 June 2008
at 11:54 p.m.

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gayokay (Anonymous) says…

Cal Thompson, there is a name in the Bible for people like you. pharasee.www.KansasEqualityCoalition.org
13 June 2008
at 11:58 p.m.

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SouthSide (Anonymous) says…

For those who hate : the names Barack, Hussein and Obama are not “Muslim” names: they are Arab names. Many, many North African and Middle Eastern Arab Christians, some Evangelical, some priests and pastors and missionaries, have those names. Calm down hate-mongers, your argument that Barack Obama is actually Osama bin-Laden in disguise is laughable and demonstrates your political and mental weakness.
14 June 2008
at 12:25 a.m.

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tunahelper (Anonymous) says…

osama bin laden is a MUSLIM you stupid morons and he is gonna lose!!!
14 June 2008
at 1:17 a.m.

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SouthSide (Anonymous) says…

Hey tunahelper, wake up to the latest news …http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2008/jun/14/taliban_attack_helps_inmates_escape_afghan_prison/

14 June 2008
at 1:31 a.m.

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Multidisciplinary (Anonymous) says…

So am I to understand that in order to be a “true American” and/or Christian, you have to be named Bobby Joe?-duplenty–-(shakes head) Everyone knows it's not Bobby Joe, it's Bubba Dwayne!><
14 June 2008
at 2:27 a.m.

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hwarangdo (Anonymous) says…

So what happened to separation between church and state? People have been bickering, slandering, fighting, murdering each other over “my religion your religion” tens of thousands of years (pardon to the fundamentalists who still think the world is actually only 5000 years old) and where has it gotten us? The world is in destruct mode. Wake up! The course we're running only leads into oblivion. If “we the people” are so obsessed with a presidential candidate's religious views, then “we be (blankety blank)”.Where will the arguments and bickering stop? The world is laughing at us. This country is seriously slipping into powerlessness and all we can do is nit-pick the candidates. Bush is being mocked and ridiculed on his recent travels. Do we really want our next president to follow in his footsteps? The same-ole same-ole? The bottom (or rather “top”) line is there is only One Judge, and it is NOT us!”Physician heal thyself!”
14 June 2008
at 6:39 a.m.

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merrill (Anonymous) says…

Did Obama fail the neocon PNAC test? Good for him.
14 June 2008
at 9:02 a.m.

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merrill (Anonymous) says…

“you idiots who are for Obama Bin Laden are the same scum who voted for Bush the second , and probably the first time::.. Go to hell::..”That is some analogy. My conservative republicans inlaws did not vote for Bush much less me or my spouse. Go Obama!
14 June 2008
at 9:06 a.m.

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ontheotherhand (Anonymous) says…

What kills me are the christians who are trying to convince me that there IS a difference between an extremist Muslim and an extremist Christian. Sorry, but there is none.
14 June 2008
at 9:31 a.m.

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morganlefay (Anonymous) says…

99.9% of christians fail the christianity test. Just because a person attends church most weeks, doesn't save their soul. Until christians pull their hypocritical noses out of the air and stop judging other religions, America will continue to be looked upon in the negative way it has been for years now.I came from the earth and am my own savior. OBAMA 08!!!
14 June 2008
at 9:46 a.m.

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dandelion (Anonymous) says…

tunahelper is just someone who's decided to stop thinking for himself and let pundits tell his what he should think. I mean look at the moniker tunahelper. It's a too expensive way to make tuna casserole which even I can put together easily from scratch in just a few minutes. It requires no thinking. Let someone else do the thinking for you when you're cooking or voting.
14 June 2008
at 9:52 a.m.

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dotteboy (Anonymous) says…

Cal Thomas should change his name to Richard Cranium.

14 June 2008
at 4:07 p.m.

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rabb (Anonymous) says…

Unfortunately for Mr. Thomas and his ilk, he believes in a vengeful/vindictive God. Subsequently, he fears God. Thomas believes that God is the Father. TRUE. Problem is, Thomas compares himself to God's other son, JESUS. Thomas knows that he can't possibly live up to the standard set by Jesus. (Of course not, he's human. He's not expected to live up to that standard. That standard is only an example, not a requisite.)With this in mind, Thomas fears that “Father” will punish him for not being more like his Brother Jesus. When Thomas accepts the fact that His Father will NOT punish him but will instead forgive him (get it folks), then he will have the keys to the prison he has caged himself in. He will then know that anything is possible, there is nothing to fear and that ALL is forgiven. Moving from a vindictive God to a God of LOVE is the key. Don't believe me?Ask the REAL Jesus. http://askrealjesus.com/It's called enlightenment. Good luck, Cal. I feel for you. But I forgive you.
14 June 2008
at 4:24 p.m.

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rabb (Anonymous) says…

BTW. Before my own personal enlightenment, I too would have called Cal out for being a hypocrite. I used to post time wasting bashes of the NeoCons. Cal was always a favorite target of my cynicism and scorn. He is a true piece of work. Today, I no longer have time in my life to hate Cal. I only pity him for the hell that he has created for himself. And yes, even Cal will be Forgiven. It's just gonna take a lot longer for him than for the rest of us. This will help too. http://books.google.com/books?id=rxv1… amongst yourselves.
15 June 2008
at 12:39 a.m.

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SouthSide (Anonymous) says…

hey tunahelper…Take a break from the “FOX Noise Network” and read something informative for a change…http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2008/jun/15/us_nato_troops_help_hunt_870_inmates/
15 June 2008
at 9:08 p.m.

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christgriot (Anonymous) says…

ok, first of all, let me state I do in fact disagree with Obama's interpretation of certain theological things, however, I still feel totally confident, as a Christian in supporting him. I think we need to make a distinction between a person's private beliefs and the ways in which those beliefs affect how he or she actually does what God has called him or her to do. George Bush may be a committed, conservative Christian, but hiding truth about his motivation in start a war (lying in order to commit murder) clearly show that he has a *long* way to go in actually figuring out how the teaching of Jesus Christ should affect how he governs. Obama, by dramatic contrast, is very eloquent and thoughtful about communicating how Scripture informs how he governs, and has a very nuanced and well-thought out political theology, even if is personal theology is more liberal then mine. His concern for “the least among these,” his brilliant ideas about race that could accom plish a near-miracle in the KIngdom-work of racial reconciliation (“neither Jew nor Greek, but all are one in Christ”) and his radical idea that maybe more can be accomplished through talking to people then bombing them (“they will beat their swords into plowshares”) are all deeply Christian values, in a way radically different from the current president's mistaken idea that his religious belief is private matter that shouldn't play a role in politics. Scripture teaches that “by their fruit you shall know the tree” - and based on the fruit, I believe that Obama is the most *Christ*ian statesman I've seen in a while, even if we may disagree in our ideas about salvation.
16 June 2008
at 9:27 a.m.

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gr (Anonymous) says…

Bossa_Nova: “there's no mention of jesus or trinitarion versions of God in the OT. actually there's no mention of the trinity in the NT either.”“was there a trinity at the time of creation? was jesus part of the trinity at the time of creation?”Maybe you are right or maybe you are part right. You seem to know the Bible well, but did you miss this part in Genesis?Genesis 1:2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.Genesis 3:15 And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers; he will crush your head, and you will strike his heel.”Sounds like the “Spirit of God” was there, and sounds like there was a plan for coming against Satan. In the New testament, surely you are familiar with John which was also in Jonas' link:John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2) He was with God in the beginning. 3) Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.10) He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him.14) The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.18) No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father's side, has made him known.So, God is one, but yet He's not one. I think Jonas had said it pretty well about there being three linked aspects. But, you are right, there is strong support for a pagan mythology entering the church. You can thank Constantine for a big part of that - good intentions, bad result. That's why you can't go with what a tradition of a church is, but must go back to the Bible. Look in Jesus' day. The leading church people had made up all kinds of things. From the Bible, we know there is God, He sent His son Jesus. The question is, is there a separate Holy Spirit? A trinity much like pagans have? Jesus had to go back to heaven to send the Spirit, but other texts support the Spirit was already in existence and other texts that support Jesus was the Holy Spirit. Could there just be a duality, and the Spirit is the “spirit” of those two? Is there any reason to make it a dogma? Does it affect one's salvation?