Archive for Wednesday, June 11, 2008

Lawrence couple to seek same-sex marriage in California

June 11, 2008


A Lawrence couple is hoping to become the first same-sex couple from Kansas to get married legally in California.

Mike Silverman, 35, and Dave Greenbaum, 37, plan on getting their marriage license at 8:15 a.m. June 17 in San Francisco. A recent California Supreme Court ruling legalized gay marriage.

The two have been together for more than 12 years, and said they plan to wear Kansas University attire.

"We wanted to show that we are proud to be from Kansas, and we hope that our home state one day soon will live up to its founding values and recognize marriage for all its citizens," said Silverman.

The couple had a Jewish ceremony nine years ago recognizing their relationship. They said they wanted to get married in California to provide legal protections for their relationship and make a statement in favor of equality in Kansas.

In 2005, Kansas voters approved a constitutional amendment banning same-sex marriage. But Silverman and Greenbaum said Kansas should recognize the California marriage license because of the U.S. Constitution's "full faith and credit clause" which requires states to recognize other state's actions.


Bone777 9 years, 10 months ago

Cutny - I didn't think that was bad. I just have a natural aversion to that behavior.By the way, Nice birth name...Cutny..sounds Greek...

Easy 9 years, 10 months ago

Hope they stay in Cali, but we probably couldn't get that lucky

Weezy_Jefferson 9 years, 10 months ago

Do you even know them , Easy? My guess is "probably not." Let me guess what, then, motivated you to voice your snarky comment....

Dani Davey 9 years, 10 months ago

Good for them but regardless of whether it's legal in California, Kansas isn't going to recognize the marriage so they still aren't going to have any legal protection in Kansas. See KSA 23-101 and KSA 23-115.

cutny 9 years, 10 months ago

Nice one bone, way to wear your intolerance and bigotry for all to see while you hide behind your anonymous little screen name. That's takes courage!

james bush 9 years, 10 months ago

LJW, WHY!!?? How does this kind of stuff make the news?! Cheney's daughter is homosexual........okay, maybe that is news. But this?

geniusmannumber1 9 years, 10 months ago

Reality_Check: Saw an article earlier today: "A study issued this week by UCLA's Williams Institute for Sexual Orientation and the Law projected that gay men and lesbians will spend $684 million on cakes, photographers and other services over the next three years unless voters reverse the high court's ruling in the fall."plainspeaking: +1

ihatelv 9 years, 10 months ago

This is newsworthy why???I'm sure KU is proud to be associated.....

gogoplata 9 years, 10 months ago

Good idea kujayhawk. Piss on all the faithful Christians who honor their vows.

Kevin Sontag 9 years, 10 months ago

After all that, I forgot to say: Good for you, Mike and Dave. It's unfortunate you have to go half way across the country to simply be not-discriminated-against, but at least finally you can get what you have waited a long time for. Congratulations!

plainspeaking 9 years, 10 months ago

gee, Easy, you don't like gays, homeless, hippies or Downtown Lawrence. let me guess - are you Cartman from Southpark?

LakeShawnee 9 years, 10 months ago

Pardon me, Full Faith and Credit argument....

packs_of_wild_dogzz 9 years, 10 months ago

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Kevin Sontag 9 years, 10 months ago

To quote the late, great Richard Jeni: Gay people wanna get married. And I say, Let 'em. This is America. Gay people have the same right to lose half their s*** as the rest of the population.( Rant ) This is what I get about people who are anti- gay marriage. They usually fall back on one of three arguments. The first being, "Well, it's the way it's always been." Kinda like how it always has been illegal to marry someone of a different race. ... Oh wait, they changed that! Wow, fancy that. The institution of marriage has survived a great change once before, and quite well, thank you very much. It can do it again. The second argument is "We want to keep the act of marriage sacred." Did you know that around half of all marriages in this country end in divorce? Not a very sacred act anymore, is it? I see all these votes for banning gay marriage, but never a vote to ban divorce. Hypocrites! The third argument (usually, but not always, reserved for adoption conversations) is "Well, how do we explain it to the children? They'll be confused when one of their friends has two mommies or two daddies." Guess what folks? Remember those divorce things I just mentioned? Well there are some kids who need to have explained to them why daddy doesn't live with them anymore, and why there's a new man in mommy's life, and why daddy brings a new woman around when he comes for visits. Pretty complex for a kid. Yet it happens everyday. Explaining why someone has two dads is no more complex than that. ( /Rant )

dweezil222 9 years, 10 months ago

justfornow, shouldn't you be on a street corner in Topeka with your picket sign?I want to clear up something about this whole question of whether it's better to have government or religion control the institution of marriage. Remember, when the notion of monogamous (or even polygamous) marriage first developed, the two were not adequately separable; religion and government were one and the same. Governments, acting under color of religion, created the notion of marriage as a method of social control, albeit one with fairly decent reasons behind it, such as preventing disease and such. But the primary function was for purposes of delineating units of people for census-taking and other population measures.That being said, what rational basis do we have for not permitting same-sex marriages? They can be tracked just as adequately for census-type purposes as can hederosexual marriages. We've pretty definitively established that homosexual partners are no more susceptible to disease than straight partners. Religion, in its modern context, has no place in delineating who marriage is limited to. For one, the Constitutional guarantees of separation of church and state should prevent it; for another, moralistic arguments based on faith have no meaning whatsoever to someone who doesn't share your beliefs. What right do you have to force your beliefs on them -- and if your beliefs happen to be Christian, even the most fundamentalist of faiths tend to agree that faith is meaningless unless voluntary.While I fully expect that this debate will drag on for years while cases labor through the court system to the Supreme Court, it will eventually be decided, and without a clearly articulated rational basis which is more than empty moral statements, will ultimately fail any test for Fourteenth Amendment compliance ever articulated by that Court so far. Even those states with state Constitutional amendments will be overturned at that point, on grounds of federal supremacy. I know that terrifies all of you right-wing backlashers, but you better get used to the idea.

LakeShawnee 9 years, 10 months ago

While their intentions are admirable and I support them, it seems that neither of the two are lawyers. It has been long recognized, through conflict of laws principles and the tenets of family law, that sister states reserve the right to only recognize those marriages they themselves deem appropriate and within the purview of their own public policy. Thus, any privileges and immunities clause argument the couple wishes to put forth probably wont get them anywhere. Therefore, as gay marriage is against the enumerated public policy of the State of Kansas (even expressly as it is in our State Constitution now), it is highly doubtful that any Kansas court would recognize this California contract and lend it credibility when it comes to any sort of dissolution of this couple's relationship (whether it be via death or separation). Remember, legally there is no benefit to being "married" except for tax breaks and rights upon dissolution of the marital agreement.

dweezil222 9 years, 10 months ago

Solomon, interesting point... I'll have to look into that.

vpete69 9 years, 10 months ago

I used to work for a cable company doing internet installs. I went to this house one time where 2 gay guys lived. I turned on the computer to install the drivers for the NIC, and the wallpaper on the desktop was a picture of these 2 guys, naked and spooning. You know what gets me about that? The fact that both of them were sitting there watching me do the install, and knew damn well what was going to come up on the screen. Be gay if you want, you have the right. But quit throwing it in my face with news articles and desktop wallpaper.

Bone777 9 years, 10 months ago

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Bone777 9 years, 10 months ago

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EXks 9 years, 10 months ago

mazel tov!!Lichiam, Lichiam, to LIfe!

gogoplata 9 years, 10 months ago

The homosexuals make a good argument. I do think it is an equally good argument for poligamy. My problem with homosexuality is a moral one. When I read the Bible it is clear to me that homosexuality is sin. But who am I to force my values on two adults who are free (or should be free) to make thier own choices. If we are going to punish homosexuals shouldn't we go after adulterers as well. If you look at the teachings of Jesus he said that to look at a woman with lust is to have already commited adultry in the heart. How many heterosexual men can plead innocent on that one? I have already acknowledged the fact that I am a sinner but for those who have not yet faced that reality it is often offensive to them when they are confronted with it. As Christians we have the responsibility of teaching about sin and the forgiveness available through our resurrected savior Jesus Christ. But we can avoid further alienating homosexuals by not forcing them to live as we would have them live. God in flesh did not use force so why do many Christians see force as the means to changing lives? Government is force. We would be wise to get government out of marriage.

kujayhawk 9 years, 10 months ago

Hetrosexuals have done enough damage to the institution of marriage, maybe it's time to give somebody else a shot.

vpete69 9 years, 10 months ago

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kujayhawk 9 years, 10 months ago

and to gogo....maybe we should get religion out of marriage as well since I know many so called "Christians" who have a tough time being faithful to their spouse Monday thru Saturday, but beat that Christianity drum awfully loud on Sunday.

kujayhawk 9 years, 10 months ago

"I remember when Mike Silverman wrote a letter to The Pitch saying that as a stockholder in Hallmark he was disappointed that they didn't offer benefits for domestic partners. He didn't realize when he made that up that Hallmark was a private company and didn't have publicly traded stock."If he works(ed) at Hallmark, it's very possible he is(was) a Hallmark stockholder.

like_n_Lawrence 9 years, 10 months ago

Congratulations Mike and Dave.Someday all of the closets will open in Lawrence.

yourworstnightmare 9 years, 10 months ago

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dtaylor 9 years, 10 months ago

Bone777, I can say in all honesty that if you and Mike and Dave end up in the same place, then I will FINALLY believe the people who tried to tell me that there really is a hell. And I will also believe that Mike and Dave must have done something really wrong to be stuck in the same eternity as you.I tend to believe that the world is filled with self-righteous people like Bone who make the rest of our lives hell on earth while he tries to get to heaven after he dies. Wow.

Bone777 9 years, 10 months ago

Revised:I like the thought of a "Union Ceremony" as a option for gay marriage, with all of the legal rights of marriage, but the religion left out.If a man wants to kiss the hairy knuckles of another mans hand, it is his right to do so.I don't know how God feels about homosexuals, but I'll ask Dave and Mike when we get to heaven. The devil made me do that last one....

yellowhouse 9 years, 10 months ago

WHAT MARRIAGE TRULY ISMarriage is when two people begin a new startWeaving together their lives with their heartTwo people joined together now and foreverA bond that man could tear apart neverA miracle of pleasure to last through the yearsSharing their joy, laughter and tearsGoing forward together, all others forsakeA journey of love only two can take.For what were two peopleHas now become wholeAnd through the wings of a marriageLove can enter the soul.---------------------------"And now abideth faith, hope, love, these three,but the greatest of these is love!" I Cor. 13:13 Congratulations!

jayhawkerincali 9 years, 10 months ago

When are we going to learn that religion and it's warped views on society is going to be the demise of the human race?

yourworstnightmare 9 years, 10 months ago

If any couple deserves benefits from the state for a stable relationship, it is this one.They have been together 12 years, much longer than most of the 50% of heterosexual couples who get divorced.The state has recognized that a couple, two people, is the most stable partnership and most beneficial to society and to raising children.The Constitution ensures that all have equal access to the law.Do the math, screamers.Or, just go ahead and scream until you are hoarse. Your posts are rather amusing, if not pathetic and sad.

lori 9 years, 10 months ago

Congratulations and best wishes, Mike and Dave!

EXks 9 years, 10 months ago

Be gay if you want, you have the right. But quit throwing it in my face with news articles and desktop wallpaper.vpete69----------------Ok sure, vpete...(or is it little peepee?) ..Be HETERO if you want, you the the right. But quit throwing it in my face (LOL!!!)

notajayhawk 9 years, 10 months ago

yourworstnightmare (Anonymous) says: "They have been together 12 years, much longer than most of the 50% of heterosexual couples who get divorced."Got a citation for that claim, maybe?"The state has recognized that a couple, two people, is the most stable partnership and most beneficial to society and to raising children."If the 'state' you're talking about is the one we're in, or any one of a number of others, they have recognized that the hypothetical couple you are referring to (most stable partnership with the most benefit to society and children) consists of one man and one woman. Did you forget that part?"The Constitution ensures that all have equal access to the law."As they do - anyone in this country (of appropriate age and barring certain immediate-family restrictions) can marry one person of the opposite sex."Do the math, screamers. ... Or, just go ahead and scream until you are hoarse. Your posts are rather amusing, if not pathetic and sad."Tell me, does the moron who wrote this - "Maybe because no one gives a crap about you and your pathetic family? Hmmm?" - qualify as a "screamer?"

igby 9 years, 10 months ago

Marriage is such a blown-out circus of hum-drum prison-trail night-mare on elm street bankruptcy blues and chid-support hellish payments; the hell is in the details. Hope you all are having fun! at lease your both spaded.

DaREEKKU 9 years, 10 months ago

All marriages should be banned. Marriage is a religious ceremony and thus should not exist within government. The government should only recognize domestic partnerships. If you want to enter into a marriage and have the word "recognized marriage" stamped on a piece of paper....then you can take your archaic ideas to a church, sign a contract and do it there. Don't give me your "religion" this and "bible" this and "moral" that argument. Those arguments are about as useless as homo is with giving navigable directions. Those arguments are your opinions (not facts) and all people deserve equal opportunity....and that doesn't mean the equal opportunity to an exclusive heterosexual marriage...that means the opportunity to marry whatever consenting adult they there!

Bone777 9 years, 10 months ago

ontheotherhand - I apologize for my insensitivity. I was just trying to get a rise. Good luck fellas...

packs_of_wild_dogzz 9 years, 10 months ago

hey why can't i say queer? queers say queer all the time. geez, lighten up.

ontheotherhand 9 years, 10 months ago

Bone777 and Easy: I happen to know Mike and David and I hate to burst your narrow-minded little bubbles but I'll bet that if you guys added as much value, class, and intelligence as these two, well . . . then I guess we would hear from two less idiots.I am truly shaking my head at the people who do not think this article/info is newsworthy. Do these people live under rocks? Perhaps interviewing them (the people who live under rocks) would be "newsworthy."

KU_Dude 9 years, 10 months ago

Does anyone know if Cool & Marion have set a date for their vows as well?

Dixie Jones 9 years, 10 months ago

awwww nightmare are you a lil put out that your poor neice didnt make the news today? best wishes to her and her hubbie , and best wishes to mike and dave....

hallmarker 9 years, 10 months ago

kujayhawk,He never worked at Hallmark. Employees' profit-sharing is not in tradeable shares of stock.

denak 9 years, 10 months ago

I'm not really familiar with the "Full Faith and Credit Clause," but wouldn't it also require California to not recognize gay marriages of Kansans since the Kansas law/constitution prohibits it?Solomon,The answer to your question is "no." The U.S. Constitution is the supreme law of the land. It supercedes all other laws. A state law can not be in direct violation of the Constitution or it can be overturned.The 14th amendment states "...No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."This amendment is important in that it guarentees an individual the right to due process as well as the recognition of his or her rights in all 50 states and U.S. territories.In terms of marriage, what it says is that unless the state has a compelling substantial interest, in denying the right to marriage to two individuals, then that marriage should have legal recognition in all 50 states. As it stands now, only a few states recognize "gay marriage." State bans on "gay marriage" are being challenged because they violate the right to due process and equal protection the 14th amendment guarentees.This is why this issue is eventually going to end up in the Supreme Court.DenaP.S. Congrats Mike and Dave and all other engaged couples, homosexual or heterosexual. Good Luck!

tinlizzy 9 years, 10 months ago

vpete69-- You know, there's plenty of straight people that use naked or nearly naked photos as their desktop wallpaper. If those bother you just as much, then your problem is with having sex thrown in your face while you're at work, not gay people. If you don't have a problem with the pictures, perhaps you should examine why you think it's okay for straight people to display their sexuality but not gay people.

acg 9 years, 10 months ago

Congrats guys, I hope you have a great and happy life together. After reading some of these posts, it only reaffirms my thanks to the gods above that I am not some of you people. I just can't wrap my head around hatred and bigotry in the name of a deity that's supposed to be all about loving your neighbor.

Stephen Roberts 9 years, 10 months ago

I agree be gay all you want but stop throwing it in my face. Too bad your marriage is not recognized here.

pace 9 years, 10 months ago

Congratulations. of course Lawrence and ku should be proud of them. I am. This community is enriched by people brave enough to stand up for their rights. If your religion says don't dance, then you should have the right not to dance. people should have the right to love and commit their life to the person they love. They deserve the emotional and financial benefits that marriage can bring to one's life.

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