Archive for Saturday, June 7, 2008

Shooting leaves 2 dead

Police find bodies of men at home in east Lawrence

Area resident Tom Klocke describes the shots he heard.

June 7, 2008, 6:46 a.m. Updated June 8, 2008, 12:00 a.m.


Police seeking help

Police are asking anyone with information about Saturday morning's double shooting to contact the Lawrence Police Detective Division at (785) 832-7650.

Anonymous tips can be left at the Crimestoppers hotline at (785) 843-TIPS (8477).

Double shooting under investigation

Police continue to investigate the double shooting that happened in the 1300 block of Delaware last night. Enlarge video

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Double shooting on Delaware Street

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Two people were found shot dead in this block of Delaware Street in East Lawrence on Saturday, June 7.

Two men died early Saturday morning from apparent gunshot wounds and were found at a home in the 1300 block of Delaware on the city's east side.

Lawrence Police Sgt. Susan Hadl said several Lawrence residents called dispatchers about 2:45 a.m. and reported hearing several gunshots.

But Hadl said it took officers until 3:20 a.m. to find the two dead men. One was on the back porch of a home and the other was inside the residence.

"We don't know if they are residents there," she said.

The sergeant said one of the dead men was 18. She did not have an age of the second man.

"We're trying to piece together what may have happened," Hadl said.

She said weapons were recovered at the scene.

Police continued to talk with area residents and work at the scene of the shootings. Shortly before 9 a.m., a red Acura Integra was towed from 14th Street, near the entrance to the alley that runs behind the crime scene.

"We have made contact with a number of folks in the neighborhood," she said.

Some of those area residents were among several people who initially reported the gunfire to police. Hadl said dispatchers received calls from people who live several blocks from the home on Delaware. That initially made it difficult for officers to find the two victims. Officers talked with area residents, trying to narrow down where the shooting occurred, Hadl said.

Tom Klocke, who has lived in the neighborhood for 15 years, said he was among those who heard the gunshots. Klocke, who was awake and at his computer, said he heard seven rapid-fire shots.

"They were very fast, about like popcorn going off," Klocke said.

Outside, he said, a white car sped quickly north on Delaware, and then turned east on 13th Street.

No information about what led to the deaths was immediately apparent, according to a news release issued by Lawrence Police Capt. Steve Zarnowiec.

The identities of the two men had not been confirmed and will be withheld until relatives have been notified, Zarnowiec said.

"Information is slow to develop at this time as investigators have only the two deceased individuals and the scene itself as the primary information source at this point," Zarnowiec said.

No additional information will be released until Monday morning, Zarnowiec said.

Douglas County Coroner Erik Mitchell arrived at the home Saturday afternoon. The two men's bodies remained at the home for nearly 12 hours.

Neighborhood residents woke up Saturday morning startled to find police had blocked off the 1300 block of Delaware and placed yellow crime scene tape around the house. They were shocked when they heard two people had been shot to death.

Greg Polk has owned property in the area for 25 years and considered it to be a neighborhood on the upswing.

"Any neighborhood goes through a cyclical pattern," he said. "This one was getting new people and people were renovating their homes. It seemed to be a better neighborhood."

Bob and Leda Rose could see police working about a block away from where they were conducting a yard sale. They said they did not hear anything overnight and didn't know about the police activity until they went outside.

"We've lived here 40 years and it has never been a bad neighborhood," Leda Rose said.

Jessica Holeman, who lives across the alley from the shooting scene, arrived home early Saturday and saw red police lights before she went to bed.

"I had no idea what was going on," she said. "I've only lived here a short time. This is kind of unnerving."

Ezekiel and Heather Nance have lived in the area for a year and have found it to be quiet, they said.

"I've heard gunshots before but they were always farther to the east," Heather Nance said.

The last time Lawrence had a double homicide was July 2002. Pete Wallace and Wyona Chandlee, both 71, were shot to death in their home in the 1500 block of Learnard Avenue. Police said the two interrupted a burglary in progress and were shot execution-style.

Police arrested Damien Lewis a few days later. He is serving a prison sentence of at least 158 years for the murders.

The last homicide case in Lawrence occurred in February when Jerry Deshazer, 62, was found beaten to death in his east Lawrence mobile home. Two people, Jerod E. Buffalohead and Shanna R. Friday, are awaiting trial in that case.


David Albertson 7 years ago

How much do you want to bet the shooters are from Topeka?

Melanie Birge 7 years ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

DaREEKKU 7 years ago

How very Lawrence of you to think that the shooters are from Topeka. That's right...blame Topeka for all the bad things that happen in this town....perish the thought that this town sucks A LOT more than people think and it could have possibly just been Lawrence residents. This town is full of a bunch of self righteous, wannabe uppity arse-holes.

Aiko 7 years ago

I blame the Wakarusa Festival and George Bush!

KEITHMILES05 7 years ago

A continuation of good things happening in Lawrence.

lawrence123 7 years ago

I really cant believe how selfish some people are. I know if that was my family member i would have a lot to say to you dumb ass people!!!! Im so sorry for the family of the boys, i dont know what happened, i dont know who they are and i think its so funny how even though people were not there they think they know what happened. I have heard everything from a drug deal gone bad, to being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Was it the boys residence they were at??? Why were they there??? what happened?? im sure no one can answer these questions down to the facts because no one knows what really happened cuz none of you were really there were you!! what the hell does it matter if they are white, black, hispanic, chinese, mexican.. race dont make someone a killer so whoever started that st can stop. As for being low income, just because some people n lawrence are not as rich as some of you stuck up snobs dont mean that they killed someone because they were poor.. Get outta here!!! best suggestion, until you know the facts.. quit acting like you do!!! Just because some people from KCK, KCMO, Topeka have killed someone. Think about the people from lawrence who have also murdered people..Example, Major killing clacc. Dumb people do stupid things, maybe the killer was jeaous of these 2 boys did anyone ever think of that.. i did hear jealously played a big roll in claccs murder.. RIP to everyone who has lost someone important!! and for you dumb a people out here who think you know it all.. get ur facts straight or keep ur comments 2 urself!!1

iMaMoM 7 years ago

My heartfelt sympathy goes out to the families and friends of the two people involve.

eotw33 7 years ago

Why isn't there anything in the article about how this is, or could be related to the shooting that happened at 19th and New Hampshire (about 10 minutes prior to this one), and about the chase from there to 13th (white car chasing the red car(this is according to the cops processing the porches full of bullet holes on New Hampshire)). 3 houses got hit on New Hampshire from the same vehicles involved in this. They might be able to get more info from people by reporting these kinda things.

lawrence123 7 years ago

did anyone find out who shot the boys and why??? was it because of the break in and he just got n the way??

geekin_topekan 7 years ago

"...this is the exception and not the rule."Very good point.Lawrence is safer than many cities I have visited."...please don't think that somehow the majority of posters on here in any way represents the majority of people living in lawrence!."Another good point,posters here are a minority who find pleasure in the outlet.Nothing more.

bearded_gnome 7 years ago

and, I should add, whoever they were, and whatever they were doing, these two men, one only 18, very well may have had families who now are coming to grips with the death of loved ones. I hope the police catch the criminal(s) who did this.

hawklet21 7 years ago

jumpin_catfish (Anonymous) says:I blame republicans, bush, cable tv, nra, rock and roll, rap music, and captain kangaroo! Oh, forgot one phil kline.You forgot two more... KCK and Topeka. Not that I believe that stereotype, but that seems to be the first conclusion that many jump to. It is just so very sad, and I wish that I could dig my head in the sand and have Lawrence be a perfect little town. C'est la vie. It makes me very, very sad to think that people younger than me die such untimely deaths. My condolences to the families, if they read these words.

alonghur 7 years ago

hey 8ball, if you're all for death; then kill yourself. i know one of the kids that died and i know that it happened for reasons that he had nothing to do with. Oh, and none of this came from topeka, so i hope that all of those of you dumb and ignorant enough to think so finally understand that not all bad things come from cities with bad reputations. Every city in the world is the same, and lawrence is no different. we still have people stupid and scared enough to kill people in cold blood to keep themselves out of prison for a robery gone wrong. i wish some of you were stupid enough to say some of the dumb things you've posted to my face, i really wish you would. those kids were caught up in something that they had no control of, and were in the wrong place at the wrong time. For the sake of those who did this, i hope the cops find them before the victim's friends do

JSeraphim 7 years ago

DaREEKKU - we don't blame ALL the bad things that happen on this town on Topeka, just the shootings. It's not statistically unreasonable. It's a sad fact that I would feel perfectly comfortable betting cash that the shooters turn out to be from Topeka.

junkhand 7 years ago

the "housing project" across the street from this shooting is a tri-plex that has a couple of families with young kids living in it, and they have, from what i gather, absolutely nothing to do with the shooting, so you can leave that "housing project" out of it.

bearded_gnome 7 years ago

Neighbors are a little on edge over here.---yes, I'll bet so. person noting inconsistancy between klocke's comments on the video and as reported by the officers. before you go off too far on the officers, it is worth noting that eye whitness testamony in circumstances like this aren't so stable and reliable as we like to think. research has shown that whitness testimony can be very inaccurate, or change over time. it just happens. Jonas and uber-mime, thanks. there is so much we still don't know yet. I hope you too have support regarding this loss.
river-city-so called-conservative. did you not learn anything from preceding comments. now, you're trying to politicize this thread, because of your pot-addled mind. put a sock in it.

OG_Valley 7 years ago

some of you posters should watch how you post in reflection of my boys life. what has occurred is a tragedy and was uncalled for. i lost a little homey and another who was close as well. this will not go unnoticed!

jayhawkerz 7 years ago

Sorry for your loss. Many blessings.

Missing_My_Brothers 7 years ago

ive sat here and watched my brothers be made to look like criminals. they were honest kids who never did wrong to anyone. quick to help out and always helping their mother. great grades in school and honor student in hs before going onto college. high school and college age. and white for you sick people who think this is over drugs or over low income families. it was a tragedy and people use it to make their own ends. i am ashamed to say i lived in lawrence. i thought people in utah were bad but wow you people have made me sick tonight.

bearded_gnome 7 years ago

Wow, the bodies aren't even cold before someone on LJW uses them to make a (lame) political point.---actually, the real point to any observer is that Cool has no real concern for his fellow humans, no manners, and just raw uncivil far left fringe hate. we know nothing about the victims, the crime, etc., and Cool trots this out. as I wrote yesterday, he is actually a parody of a person. often his spewing of the fringie perspective is downright funny. but here, it merely stinks.

Orwell 7 years ago

Every felon, at one time, had not yet committed his/her first felony and was then eligible to buy a pistol. I'm sure the victim of gun crime is really glad to know whether or not the perp got the gun legally.

TheEleventhStephanie 7 years ago

Many condolences to the families involved. Hope the shooter gets caught. Neighbors are a little on edge over here.

toughangel41 7 years ago

I have been reading these comments since the story came out. I was born and raised in Lawrence and a few comments also make me ashamed but not of Lawrence but the ignorance of some people out there. My girls went to school with one of the victims and when the story finally breaks I hope some of you will remember the old saying "think before you speak". There is so much pain and sorrow in the families and the communities of the victims. Please people stop and think, realize the families and friends of these guys do read these comments and it will cause pain and anger as mentioned in previous comments. I understand the threats made by other people and some of you have made them feel this anger. If you posted a comment that is hurtful you should go back and have them remove it and maybe if your have any decency you will be able to sleep (ha I doubt it) Stop being so rude and ignorant... My heart goes out to the family and friends of these guys and and my prayers are with you. Having lost a child myself I know the parents are feeling the worse pain that can ever be felt and they will need many prayers. My daughters were saddened by this tragedy and know how wonderful the 18 year old was. He was kind and thoughtful as mentioned before. And his daughter will have to grow up with out her daddy at no fault of his own. Those of you that don't know them... well just shut the hell up!!. And those expressing your concern and heartfelt condolences, god bless you. Lighten up people and pray for the families I know I am.Thank you the "toughangel"

Jeff Kilgore 7 years ago

I don't live in Lawrence but am there occasionally. It is a wonderful town. Any city approaching 100,000 citizens is going to have homicides. Be glad that this is the exception, not the rule. I would guess that for its size, Lawrence has fewer murders than other towns, and I am NOT suggesting a comparison of Lawrence and Topeka. Of course, it is terrible to wake up to this news, but crime is a fact of life--well, maybe not in Singapore.

RobertMarble 7 years ago

Consider this: blaming firearms (or the NRA) for crime simply because a firearm was used is the sign of a deficient intellect. It would be the equivalent of fixating on the ethnicity of any of the individuals involved, and then saying their race was the root cause of the crime / crimes.

Missing_My_Brothers 7 years ago

i know there is good in that town for i met a lot of good people who touched my life dearly and always will. my brothers did for everybody they met and helped many in this community. they were amazing students friends and family and the only thing that should be brought up in this is the details needed to get the people who caused the pain and the fear not just in the ones related but to those in the neighborhood. they will worry about their children and their possesions. lawrence has a lot to go through yet and this bull***t bickering isnt going to get nowhere but hot heads. its times like this that the death penalty should be used and thought. two young men died at the hands of a criminal who will live off the tax payers the rest of his life in a place where he has three hot meals and a bed free of any thing. i say hang him where you find him for taking and cutting short two young lives of two amazing men. you two are in my heart my prayers and my memories for all time. i love and miss you both. Long Live The UV

Jeff Kilgore 7 years ago

endtimes, wrong. your site is a hotel ad. pretty lame.

Tink1227 7 years ago

Thank you for the kind regards. We too hope that the people are caught and before they can hurt anyone else.

thedrawl 7 years ago

eotw33--You easily win the contest for the most relevant/informative post of the day. I wonder if anyone was hurt at the 19th and NH shooting? Or of anyone else was hit by the apparently stray gunfire?

morganlefay 7 years ago

The men attempting to break in were doing something wrong that they shouldn't have been doing. And since firearms were involved, they were obviously prepared to seriously injure or kill someone to accomplish their goal. They're dispicable. I do feel for the family of that man, but definitely not for that person, himself, or his cronies.

Tink1227 7 years ago

I agree, the two were not related. The one killed inside was living there, his younger brother had been attempting to get him to go to Wakarusa Fest with him. Unfortunately, he did not succeed. Now, our family is in mourning for a terrible loss. The one outside was one of a group who were attempting to break into the home.

somebodynew 7 years ago

Doesn't anybody have any info as to what happened ?? (Besides the "came from Topeka" rant.)I can't believed there aren't people who live nearby posting about who, what, when, and why ??

RobertMarble 7 years ago

your proficiency at running away has little to do with the topic at hand.

jumpin_catfish 7 years ago

I blame republicans, bush, cable tv, nra, rock and roll, rap music, and captain kangaroo! Oh, forgot one phil kline.

May Soo 7 years ago

I'm not sure if this is still true or not, but when I worked at the housing authority back in the late '90s they were self sufficient. They were receiving no government money. Barbara has actually done a superb job out there.------------------I was at their annual landlord/property manager's meeting back in April, and from what I heard, LDCHA still is self sufficient and does not get government money.

RonBurgandy 7 years ago

It is not the town. I still would have no problem jogging through any part of this town.

Amandak 7 years ago

Another good argument for the City to hire more officers! I'm not talking about nine or 10, our community needs far more than that. What, with turnover and some finding they don't like the "job", we need to hire enough to have an impact on the streets. A community this size needs a police department twice the size our City has. Maybe then our officers can become more proactive toward crime and not have their main focus be response once a crime has occurred and the "bad guy" long gone! We have great officers in Lawrence, but we need more!!This type of crime should NOT be happening in our City. That is an excuse as bad as any. Those who don't respect their neighbors, community, or the law must be held accountable. Time to tighten the reigns and draw a line in the sand. Speak up people--more police equals a safer community (whether you like the police or not)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

bearded_gnome 7 years ago

B3,again, nothing is known and such speculation does nobody any good! and, before some of you have this neighborhood made out to be crack den: most of the people living in that area of east lawrence are very nice folks. ththat area has undergrown real improvement over the past ten years, many homes have been fixed up. ***note: they want to put the "open shelter" just a block away at 13 and oregon. crime is concentrated among the guests of that shelter, and it wouldn't be good for this neighborhood.

bearded_gnome 7 years ago

I can't believed there aren't people who live nearby posting about who, what, when, and why ??---still keeping their heads down?the house southeast corner of 13 and del was a constant source of fights, domestic violence, etc up to a year ago. but this sounds from the article like it was closer to 14th. good people in that neighborhood, including Tom in the article. the car sped off to the east. eudora? dareeku, if you're so unhappy, get out of ku, go to school, oh, say, in tx. oh, you wouldn't like it there too...okay, go to howard dean's vermont, peoples' republic of vermont, perhaps you'd be happier there. as it is, you're going to die early with all that pent up hostility at your neighbors. KU may have the hippies, and greeniewheenies, but it is a wonderful town.

endtimes 7 years ago

Yeah, first it was them bystanders and passing motorists in Hartford, Connecticut just standing there /driving by while the body of a nearly-dead elderly man lay spread eagle in the road after having just got runover by a car....and now it's us folks right here in Lawrence, Kansas just gabbing away on an LJWorld blog about this, that, and the other.....instead of focusing in on who, exactly, it was that got blown away.You're right, tdiddy, all of us here in Lawrence (and on this board in particular) should be ashamed of ourselves.

RobertMarble 7 years ago

in a perfect world...the silly idiots who snivel about guns would be arrested, charged with creating a public, nuisance, given a fair trial, then stabbed in face with a cinderblock. yeah, that's the ticket....

bearded_gnome 7 years ago

das_ubermime,so sorry for your, your wife's, loss. all the specculation going nuts tells more about the people doing it, than anything about the perp(s) and the victims. its never easy to lose someone so suddenly. again, I hope the shooter(s) get caught quickly. Godspeed to the police.

bearded_gnome 7 years ago

dumbasses blaming this as being oh bad lawrence! we don't even know who the perp (s) was(were)! and linking this to economy ...C'MON! save that. like I said, two men are shot, families are grieving, and to heck with the politics! we are, however, noticing who it is that crassly tries to use this tragedy for petty political gain, because it really opens the door so we can see into their stinky little souls, even if they call themselves "cool" "dgl" or whoever! you need to look in the mirror, and think about your life. you're politicizing the deaths of two of your neighbors! for God's Sake! and, those who loved and cared for these two men have enough to cope with, without your stupidity. ***the police are still working on this tonight. also they've got something else going. if you pray, if it is in your faith, pray for the hearts and minds of our police officers. they confront evil every day. they do protect us. some of them had to view the crime scene were two men spent the last seconds of their lives. average citizens do not understand what is like to be a police officer. God care for them.

DGL 7 years ago

The shooting happened about 500 feet away from a housing project. Seven rapid fire shots from a semi-automatic handgun means panic. I"ll bet dollars to donuts this was a drug deal that went bad.

pace 7 years ago

I am sorry for the families grieving tonight. my heart goes out to them. I live nearby, our heads aren't ducking and the street has lots of families on it. We know nothing but the sounds and that it is sad.

over_par 7 years ago

We do need more officers. Boulder, Colorado was mentioned before as a comparable city. Based on their web site, they have 20-24 patrol officer on shift at a time. Based on what I hear, we have from 9-17 on a given day.

scrapgirl8125 7 years ago

endtimes (Anonymous) says: Cool, if guns never existed then the caption would (have) read:.."2 Men Stabbed to Death in 1300 Block Of Delaware":.and then you, Cool, would be hollering and screaming about "the proliferation of knives".haha's true!

jonas 7 years ago

somebodynew (Anonymous) says:"Doesn't anybody have any info as to what happened ?? (Besides the "came from Topeka" rant.)I can't believed there aren't people who live nearby posting about who, what, when, and why ??"Should they somehow be at an obligation to us to provide us with that information, as if it's really our business? Putting recently-acquired pieces together, I think this incident actually cuts into my own family, but I'm going to wait for them to release informed details before I, at least, start speculating on the particulars.

tdiddy 7 years ago

Why has no one mentioned the fact that lives have been taken and how THAT will effect those individuals families....and this town (shame on you Lawrence) This town is filled with people who do stupid things over nothing, just like many other smaller towns like Lawrence. I just hope it's not one of my childhood friends ?!

junkhand 7 years ago

ok, well, 1600 haskell is a ****hole so i'm with you on that. is that really only 500 feet away?

RobertMarble 7 years ago

and of course the simpletons will rally behind this story to further their attempts at criminalizing firearms for all citizens. Blame the guns, that'll fix everything eh? So if firearms weren't a factor, do you honestly believe the violence would be avoided? If guns cause crime, that means pencils cause misspelled words- better outlaw them too. And don't forget about matches which cause arson. The antis should stop attempting to think; it's obviously not their strongpoint.

DaREEKKU 7 years ago

It's nice to see that hockmano has common sense. My problem with this town is that a large population of it's citizens are completely delusional. Yes, Lawrence is a nice town but it's not the Atlantis that most people make it out to be. I don't hate the town, I hate the views/people that adorn it. Maybe if people here were less condescending and more realistic...., and bearded_gnome--my boxes are packed and I'm already planning my exodus into reality.

kyateh 7 years ago

Idon't think it matters who lobbies what about guns.People will get them where ever and however they can.."BAD PEOPLE" do bad things,and it doesnt take a gun to do so!Lets stop blaming the guns and gun laws for what BAD people do.............

hockmano 7 years ago

DaREEKKU (Anonymous) says: How very Lawrence of you to think that the shooters are from Topeka. That's right:blame Topeka for all the bad things that happen in this town:.perish the thought that this town sucks A LOT more than people think and it could have possibly just been Lawrence residents. This town is full of a bunch of self righteous, wannabe uppity arse-holesI may be one of a few that share your views.I have lived here for eleven years and it seems like things have changed rapidly for the worse in the last four years.

oxandale 7 years ago

Personally i think it was a band of rogue ninjas!

junkhand 7 years ago

i've been in this neighborhood for a couple years and never heard anything about burglaries or robberies. curious to see how this plays out

morganlefay 7 years ago

Thanks for clarifying that, Tink. My heart & blessings go out to you & your family & friends.At least one of the scum burglars got there's. Now the rest of his cronies need caught and should meet the same fate. There's no need for such losers to be walking our streets and breathing our air. Burglarizing a home for what?! If these damn people would just work for themselves and make an honest living they wouldn't have to try and take what other people have. These scum of the earth make me sick and should burn in hell.

eotw33 7 years ago

there were 3, and the two shootings were related. No one was hurt in the New Hampshire incedent. It started behind that kwik shop (19th and Mass) as a fight and someone drew a gun, they tried to get out of there apparently but were followed.

ayden 7 years ago

my regards go out to the family's of these two men, i knew one of them and went to school with him, he was a good kid. Had a daughter who my regards go out to mostly!!!!!!!!!! what is really messed up is i just seen him the other day as he was happy and cheer ful and then this has to happen.

ksmom45 7 years ago

My thoughts and prayers are with the families of the young men that were killed. It makes no difference which side of the fence these young men were on, they were both killed.Tink I am so sorry for your loss, and all my thoughts are with you and your family.

KEITHMILES05 7 years ago

Well, that settles it.Lawrence people killing Lawrence people.No need to blame KCK, Topeka, or Wichita people for your own crimes.

Kat Christian 7 years ago

Well that's another body overgrowding our already overgrowded prisons. Who is to blame? That person is - he is just plain bad - it is what it is. I'm tired of the excuses - bad society, bad parenting, bad schools, bad neighborhood, screwed up legal system, violent TV. That person made the choice to change the course of his life and commit the worse of crimes as taking another person's life. Therefore he needs to be taken out of society because people like him do not belong in the general population of life. He's a freak of nature.

Steve Jacob 7 years ago

Violent crime is up nationwide, so why not here? Why it has not come up yet from out presidential candidates I have no idea.Anyway, don't guess about "Topeka" of "Drugs" until some facts are givin'. But, police knowing one was 18 quick means he's been in trouble before. Sorry to the families.

Dixie Jones 7 years ago

does anyone know if this kid was from mclouth?

Tink1227 7 years ago

I had heard three as well. One has been arrested, one was killed. As for the third, I had heard that he was in LMH. True? At this point, I don't know. The infomration on the first 2 I have heard confirmed by family members.

littleone 7 years ago

that block is notorious for the crack sure you are right DGL

Confrontation 7 years ago

I'm willing to bet that the garage sale will do pretty well this weekend. You'll have people stopping by just to stare at the crime scene and ask questions. They might even buy a used coffee pot or a few romance novels.

RobertMarble 7 years ago

can't you bed wetting anti gun zealots get it through your heads- a firearm is an inanimate object. It is not evil. It does not cause otherwise happy, sane people to unexpectly commit acts of violence out of the blue. If you nutcases can't figure that out you're irrational. Many other objects are quite frequently used in crimes, Knives, vehicles, sports equipment, rocks, etc.....Just because you have some phobia or dislike of guns is no reason to attempt to transpose your views onto others, especially when peddled in the guise public safety or whatever other weak rationalization is in vogue this week.

littleone 7 years ago

Dont be blaming all crimes on low income people. 1600 haskell is not as bad as people think. You do only have one strike and your out. They enforce this well and it has really cleaned up the place. You still have your occassional fight there...but its usually some moron beating up his wife..but hell, that happens all over town. So, to be judgemental about the low income is wrong.

Tink1227 7 years ago

One of the victims is my nephew. He was a good guy. I've heard he interrupted a robbery and there was crossfire. It's a sad day for the family.

bearded_gnome 7 years ago

nice revision of the story, thanks LJWorld. you're welcome Das-ubermime, just doing what ought to be done. the thought of coming into your home and interrupting a burglary is scarey. let's hope there are fingerprints or other signs left that id the perp(s) beyond "white car. my eudora comment above was meant to poke fun at people who already had the serial number of the gun, and the address of the perp figgered out. again, this is a wonderful neighborhood. anybody linking this to proximity of edgewood homes, crack, etc., is full of you know what. I think its going to turn out that this could have just as easily happened off on wakarusa dr., or on harvard!those two men died suddenly, without time to prepare. stuff the damn politics!

compmd 7 years ago

This is starting to get on my nerves. I don't like the thought of carrying when I just want to take a walk. Seriously, this is Lawrence. But if my CZ has to come with me on a walk, so be it.

jayhawkerz 7 years ago

crosstownbytch1 (Anonymous) says: i was also wondering if anyone knew who the two were or if they were black or white?--Or purple, or pink, or yellow, or green, orHispanic, orJapanese, orNative American, orIrish, or.....

littlegrace 7 years ago

Can someone please tell us if the victims were brothers. We were notified that the boys were both gone. Another person is saying the male on the back porch was someone else. These young men were in boy scouts with a family member. They were good kids.

DGL 7 years ago

negative, not talking about the tri-plexex. Talking about 1600 Haskell Ave.

anonymous08 7 years ago

You all should be ashamed of yourselves. Two men have been shot and all you can talk about is the crime rate and how horrible lawrence is. Did you ever think that it's not the town but THE PEOPLE THAT LIVE IN IT. You all are what make up the town so what does that say about you? And what does the race of the two men matter? What does black, white, purple, or gold have to do with anything? Maybe they were black so what are you going to start blaming black people for what happened? You can't blame an ethnic background for one person in that ethnic groups mistakes. And not all things should be blamed on the parents or the place that they've come from. People make their own decisions no matter how they were raised or where they were raised for that matter. Some people are just in the wrong place at the wrong time. It's not their fault. And to the person who posted that because they knew that one of the males was 18 that meant he must have been in trouble before. Do you realize how dumb you made yourself look saying that? Did you ever think that maybe he had a driver's license on him? You know those things do state your birthdate and any person can mathematically figure out how old he was. I went to school with one of those victims and he was one of the nicest people I knew. We may have lost touch over the years but that doesn't mean he still wasn't a part of my life. He will be missed by many, many people. People who loved and cared about him and don't sit around on computers and criticize his murder, and think of all the things that he must have done wrong to have this happen to him. I hope for all of your sakes that you don't have someone you know and love murdered and get on a newspaper article about it and find that hundreds of people are dissecting it and making up bull**** about what happened or could have "possibly" happened. Think about what you write next time because it may be someone you know that the article is about.

endtimes 7 years ago

Cool, if guns never existed then the caption would (have) read....."2 Men Stabbed to Death in 1300 Block Of Delaware"....and then you, Cool, would be hollering and screaming about "the proliferation of knives".

David Albertson 7 years ago

"Barbara with her big salary and her hubby at KU with his. Both on the public dole. And some wonder why the tax base doesn't go far enough."I'm not sure if this is still true or not, but when I worked at the housing authority back in the late '90s they were self sufficient. They were receiving no government money. Barbara has actually done a superb job out there.

Dixie Jones 7 years ago

lawrence 123..... nothing but applause from me .. well said ... to tink and her family members and to the other young mans family our prayers and thoughts are with you at this time. may god comfort each and everyone

bearded_gnome 7 years ago

Dareeku,glad you're leaving! only problem for you:whatever city you go to, it won't be perfect. you won't be a perfect citizen. you will find things that irk you there will irk others there in paradise.

lna0825 7 years ago

I would like to put my thoughts and prayers out to those who were related or friends of the boys who lost their lives... It's a horrific thing to go through and pray that justice will be served... Once again I am terribly sorry for your losses...

50YearResident 7 years ago

"some of you posters should watch how you post in reflection of my boys life.what has occurred is a tragedy and was uncalled for. i lost a little homey and another who was close as well. this will not go unnoticed!"What????? Please clairfy this statement............

loki8025 7 years ago

I was going to make another crack about Topeka, but it seems that Lawrence has been producing its own share of derelicts. Guns don't kill people, criminals kill people!

endtimes 7 years ago

Just go to (just type in any city and start scrolling) pretty much tells you what any city in America's crime rate currently is and has been for the past five years (among other vital stats). Pretty informative.

jayhawkerz 7 years ago

And yours as well, Das. I didn't see your post until just now. Regardless of the whos or whats, it is always a tragedy to someone. Again, condolensces.

hockmano 7 years ago

DaREEKKU (Anonymous) says: It's nice to see that hockmano has common sense. My problem with this town is that a large population of it's citizens are completely delusional. Yes, Lawrence is a nice town but it's not the Atlantis that most people make it out to be. I don't hate the town, I hate the views/people that adorn it. Maybe if people here were less condescending and more realistic:., and bearded_gnome-my boxes are packed and I'm already planning my exodus into reality.Yes, I moved here from Kansas City and THOUGHT I was moving to an open minded, culturally diverse, thriving community.Only to find out that most here are very self serving, close minded and that Lawrence is lacking in jobs that pay a decent salary.Don't worry, I have been shopping around for greener pastures for sometime now.I think my bags will be packed sometime soon also.

br0318 7 years ago

I'm still surprised I had to learn about the other shootings in Lawrence that night from eotw33's post and not from the LJ World article. I am also surprised that this is not the headline story on the website. Instead we get some fluff piece on WakFest. It makes me wonder if the Lawrence media underreports things like this that could give the city a bad name. Sad.

littlegrace 7 years ago

Thes boys were friends of my son they grew up together in boy scouts and we are just trying to find out what happened. We have spoken with scout leaders and some mothers. The stories are all diffrent. No one is trying to add stress to the family. We knew these kids.

bearded_gnome 7 years ago

tdiddy(Anonymous)says:Why has no one mentioned the fact that lives have been taken and how THAT will effect those individuals families:.and this town (shame on you Lawrence)This town is filled with people who do stupid things over nothing, just like many other smaller towns like Lawrence. I just hope it's not one of my childhoodfriends ?!---uh, you having reading comprehension issues?I did above just that. then SRJ did in a smaller way. ***DGL,can't you read a map? 1600 haskell is about a mile from this delaware address, and we know nothing about the crime and the perp. you sir are an idiot! you could have just as easily blamed this on the descendants of Albert Einstein.

RobertMarble 7 years ago

Yes, that is the important thing here. Hopefully they are able find the dirtbag(s) responsible & deal with them accordingly. The death penalty should be used far more often in cases of violence.

8ball 7 years ago

since im pro deathj,this doesn't bother me a bit.abortion,the death penalty,assisted suicide,im all for it

TtownKUlivin 7 years ago

Just read on CJOnline that Lawrence had arrested a 16 year old for the murders of the two men, who were 18 and 20. What is the LJWorld's problem? Do they not get the same story as the Capital Journal? By the way, the shooter is a Lawrence native..sorry for those that only wanted to blame Topeka.

littlegrace 7 years ago

Tink1227 (Anonymous) says: The two who broke into the home were attempting to get revenge on the younger brother for something he did months ago. They were planning to rob the place, instead something much worse occurredI thought there were three who broke into the home and one was killed. I thpught someone said that but I can't find the post now. Was that on another thread?

jonas 7 years ago

The victims were not, to the best of my knowledge, brothers. I'm not sure if you've maintained touch with the family here but the younger brother is safe and sound, having been at Wak-Fest at the time of the incident. At this point, I at least don't know who the second person is, so I'll refrain from commenting further.

lovelytbird 7 years ago

I knew one of the kids and he was a very nice kid! He was white also. My heart goes out to all family and friends, it is sad to hear of a young good kid losing their life.

alonghur 7 years ago

oh yeah, if anyone of you that posted joke comments about what happened is brave enough to say that to my face then i beg you to leave another comment with your phone number and or email address so i can meet you somewhere

lawrence09 7 years ago

I am very sad that two young men had to be murdered because of these peoples sick minds. I see that they were in a house, who lived here? Obviously, they visted that household for a reason, and this person would know who did it. I send my blessings to all affected by this, I am so sorry this is sick. I grew up in Lawrence, and there are plenty of people who feel entitled to hurt anyone for anything.

n8spl8 7 years ago

Lawrence has plenty of police officers. Two reasons they took so long to respond: the primary focus of LPD is revenue (i.e. trolling Mass. for OUI's on saturday morning after barclosings); also, the same reason nice neighborhoods get their potholes fixed first - taxbase - east lawrence = low priority.The fact that this is probably drug related can lead you to one inevitible conclusion: drugs get to lawrence from one of two choices KC or topeka. The simple fact that topeka is more in a direct path from Mexico (via I-35) makes them the first obvious choice for a criminal chain of action. Not to mention that capitals (not just Topeka) for some reason always seem to be more seedy than towns of similar size that are not state/nat'l seats of government. (an extension of the hoplessness that government dependence brings imo)Nearly all homicides commited in the commision of a felony (not crimes of passion)utilize illegally procured firearms. Making guns inaccessible to law abiding citizens wont change that statistic. Make drugs decriminilized and these people will have nothing to shoot each other over. prohibition doesnt work, ever hear of al capone. disarming the public wont work either as that is one of the first things dictatorships have done throughout history.I will pray for the families of the victims and keep in mind we are all lucky enough to be typing on our computers free of persecution or threat to our lives.

bearded_gnome 7 years ago

just please wait for details. families involved in this are really up to their ears in what they have to do. one of the best things you can do is pray for them, and give them some space. if you think you know who the family(s) is(are) don't hop onto the phone. if you're right, they're already overwhelmed. there will be plenty of time soon. this is a horrible, unexpectable event. we don't know for sure that one died being a burglar, shot in the defense of the home. and details will come out when it is okay. I should also say that at this time, it is still possible that family might still be being contacted. how'd you like to phone a friend, and actually be the one to inform him/her that his/her loved one was apparently killed? we all want to know, so we can make sense of the this tragedy. and, it certainly is a tragedy, even about the one who was shot as a burglar if that is what he was doing. again I say, those who want to bring in their little agendas, they aren't helping anyone but themselves, at the expense of the victims of this tragedy.
things take time, be patient.

OG_Valley 7 years ago

no clarifying needed.. it is as it reads. stories we are receiving are many and contradicting in some cases. when they are finished being gathered, a better understanding will result.i can tell you that no one involved was innocent but none of them deserved to lose their life. what i dont get is in some of the stories being received two others was involved in which one is in LMH and the other is downtown being questioned, which is not at all mentioned...for the ones responsible i hope our posts send shivers down your spine. our words are real as you and all the rest already know, im sure. we as well as the detectives are hot on your ass, if we get you first............. lets just say your better off in prison where you will deal with us there to. we are what we are to prevent this bs from being in our beloved L town, why do you think acts like such arent more of the norm. yeah no one or no place is perfect, nows the best time to learn. drugs in lawrence is one thinglawrence natives being killed is another, and will not be tolerated. regardless our kids will walk these streets safe as we can keep them....(take this as a threat, it is not. take this as a promise, this is not. take this as you precieve

iMaMoM 7 years ago

I've noticed in the video interview that Klocke stated that 15 MINUTES after he heard the shots that he seen a white car turn on 13th Street and leave IN NO PARTICULAR HURRY...but the ljw printed that he said:Outside, he said, a white car sped quickly north on Delaware, and then turned east on 13th Street.....maybe they should look at the video!!

MidWestCoastSplit 7 years ago

sure its a tragedy when lives are lost, even more so when its young lives due to some sort of violent act, and to many in smaller towns/citys/communities- this sort of thing can be very shocking to all those who may call those places home. but really though- can you be all that surprised? not that this is a justification for what happened, but has anyone else heard or noted the trends between the economy/the general overall economic status of the pop and the crime rates? one goes up-the other down, and vice versa. (thats not an exact scientific fact-but rather a summation of what i found thru my own research) what i was getting at is that its hard see Lawrence as getting 'worse', when the frequency of violent crimes and those resulting in death are on a general increase across the US. It may sound cold but this kind of thing happens and will continue to do so down the line, so your best bet i feel is to just adjust yourself and your way of life in a manner that is more aware and maybe a little less naive to the world around you, even if this is Lawrence.

George_Braziller 7 years ago

What difference does it make? The coffins will probably look like what they are. A box to hold a corpse. Once you throw dirt on top they all look the same._______"crosstownbytch1 (Anonymous) says: i was also wondering if anyone knew who the two were or if they were black or white?"

angel4dennis 7 years ago

This is a tragedy no matter what the consequences. My heartfelt condolences to the families and friends of these two young men.

jonas 7 years ago

lawrence123: I see what you see, and it both saddens and hurts me, but I would urge you not to let it make you angry. I think that for a number of people, speculating on the details in this way is as much a way to cope with the knowledge that things like this happen, and that there isn't much that can be done about it. It can take some spins from there, fitting into agendas that are supposed to address the problem, or using artificial could-be scenarios to distance one's own family and situation from the one that was just read about, but I think both usually spring from the same source: coping with a tragedy and hoping it never happens to you. When it does happen to you, though, I guess there's little reason to expect anything to be different for anybody but yourself and your own family.

jonas 7 years ago

There will be a press release tomorrow, with all the details available at this time.

littlegrace 7 years ago

Thanks we have heard the younger brother was killed in the dining room. Scout leaders then said both brothers were killed. The older brother is 20 and the younger was 17 almost 18. Now we can try to reach the older brother.

jonas 7 years ago

"I do feel for the family of that man, but definitely not for that person, himself, or his cronies."That's too bad.

Tink1227 7 years ago

The two who broke into the home were attempting to get revenge on the younger brother for something he did months ago. They were planning to rob the place, instead something much worse occurred.

br0318 7 years ago

Anonymous08 has a good point. People are going to use this tragedy and the other murders in Lawrence this year to beat the community over the head. Lawrence isn't perfect, no city is. Maybe people have had rose colored glasses on in the past. But the truth is there are good and bad people everywhere. Right now we need to pull together as a community, as Lawrencians, Topekans, Eudorans, Kansas Citian's, etc. and pray for the families involved and for peace in the community, there is far more right with Kansas, than wrong, and together we all can make our region better.

ksmom45 7 years ago

This not a forum for guns or population status, this is regarding 2 deaths by violence. Neither man that died should have, unfortunately they were though. One may have been in the wrong place and the other took a wrong path in life, but never the less, they are both gone.

nikki23 7 years ago

First of all, my heart goes out to the families of the victims. I hope that the criminals are found so that you may find peace.Now, this really breaks my heart. I am always wondering about the quality of living in whatever town I am in. I have pretty much lived in East Lawrence all of my life, and I have never thought that it was a "ghetto" or even that Lawrence had a real "ghetto" with the exception of Edgewood. But as of lately, I am beginning to rethink my opinion on this matter.My previous neighbors were the two that were arrested for the February murders in the mobile home community off of 19th. And now, we have these murders. I just helped my mother move in right over there. I used to live in that same house, and I had issues too. I had, on two occasions, break-ins involving my car...but that was the extent of it. I just assumed that it was some junkie looking for change or something.I love Lawrence, but sadly, some of the neighbor hoods are going down the drain. But you will always have this no matter where you live or how nice your neighbor hood is. As long as there is a demand for drugs and a governor that isn't strict on gun laws and ill-manored people that have no value on their life or the lives of others, we will always have to face this. I vote instead of complaining about it, we all get together and promote CHANGE! Again, to the family of the victims, I am so sorry for your lose. God be with you.

lmc88 7 years ago

I also agree with lil_brat258. Seriously, two people where shot to death. Have some sympathy and stop treating them as statistics. It is unbelievable how some people can be so cold hearted. How about you stop and think for a moment how those people that knew these two men feel. I was friends with one of them and he an amazing guy. He could always put a smile on your face. Please quit with all the political views and statistics for the friends and families of these two men.

bearded_gnome 7 years ago

Dear Missing-my-brothers,your brothers died less than a block from where I used to live. I will not apologize for the large number of posters on here who have personal agendas or psychological problems that keep them from being human about their neighbors. please don't think that somehow the majority of posters on here in any way represents the majority of people living in lawrence! I know many people in your brothers' neighborhood, or at least there where they died, and everyone I knew there was considersate, and good to know. I am sorry you had to read such rude and selfish, hostile and petty comments. MMB, you are at the beginning of a long process of coping and recovery. be sure not to keep your feelings to yourself, and get support. please give most of these comments the attention and emotional reaction they really deserve from you: ignore them as meaningless in your life. I hope you see justice soon for your brothers.

RiverCityConservative 7 years ago

The violence associated with the drug trade is primarily a result of the criminalization of drug use, in my opinion. Legalization and regulation of natural medicines such as marijuana would tend to reduce attraction towards more synthetic (and dangerous) drugs such as crack. The drug war that started in the 80s and accelerated in the 90s has ruined many more lives than the drugs themselves would have done. If it turns out that this tragic double murder is not related to drug trade, then I apologize for adding these remarks, and of course my heart goes out to the families of those who perished in this incident. It is sad and it is also very normal for the city's residents to try to understand this in a larger context.

lil_brat258 7 years ago

I agree with missing_my_brother. You people are sick! These two men are not just a stastic. They were good men with lots of people who care for them. I know of these guys and he was an amazing guy. Why don't you people have some sympathy instead of turning this into some blog about political views and blaming other towns. It is so weird because I just saw him last weekend and I never thought a week later I would be seeing this. And for the men... RIP. You were loved and will always be missed and never forgotten.

KEITHMILES05 7 years ago

Lawrence is overtaking Dotte County.

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