Archive for Thursday, July 17, 2008

Prisoners, soldiers’ bodies are exchanged

July 17, 2008

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— With the transfer of prisoners and fighters' remains across the Israeli-Lebanese border Wednesday, the Shiite militia Hezbollah achieved a victory it had long coveted and Israel received the long-feared confirmation that two of its soldiers were dead.

The swap between enemies began with two black coffins passing into Israel at a seaside border crossing. Subsequent confirmation of the identities of soldiers Ehud Goldwasser and Eldad Regev ended hopes that either of the two Israelis, whose capture by Hezbollah in July 2006 sparked a month-long war, had survived their ordeal.

Hours later, the man Hezbollah had sought to free when it seized the Israelis - convicted murderer Samir Kuntar - returned to Lebanon to a jubilant hero's welcome.

Comments

monkeyspunk 6 years, 11 months ago

"I assume you know that those soldiers were captured alive and transfered into Lebanon alive. They were killed in captivity."It seems I was incorrect. I could have sworn I read previously that they were captured alive and then were killed in captivity. It is unclear as to whether or not that is true:"For the last two years, Hezbollah had refused to clarify whether the soldiers - both reservists and students at the time of their capture - were dead or alive, although Israeli officials concluded that both were badly wounded in the initial ambush and had probably not survived." (from IHT.com)

monkeyspunk 6 years, 11 months ago

"The fact is, there are terrorists all sides of these conflicts. And as long as the US enables Israel in its terrorism, there will be others who enable the terrorism of Hizbollah and Hamas."Whoa whoa whoa. We ENABLE them? What would you have us do? Stop funding them? Then what? What do you think keeps the real field armies of Egypt and Syria at bay? Do you think it is Israel's attractive flag?As an American diplomat what would you suggest to your Israeli counterpart? Seriously?Don't fire back when Hamas launches rockets at your towns? "Turn the other cheek?"Don't send in your helicopters when rockets come in from Lebanon and the Lebanese military won't stop it?Tear down and don't build any more settlements in Palestinian territory? (They've already done this, and the attacks don't stop.)What you would be asking would be unreasonable and you know it.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 6 years, 11 months ago

Excerpt from Robert Fisk's much better description of this event, and the deadly folly it represents, from both Israel and Hizbollah--http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/fisk/robert-fisk-theatrical-return-for-the-living-and-the-dead-869724.html"Yesterday was the last day of the 2006 Lebanon war, the final chapter of Israel's folly and Hizbollah's hubris, a grisly day of corpse-swapping and refrigerated body parts and coffin after bleak wooden coffin on trucks crossing the Israeli border""Once more, despite Hizbollah's capture of west Beirut earlier this year and the gun battles that broke out across Lebanon (total dead 65), he has recaptured his old popularity as the only man with the only army to stand up to Israel's legions. And there will most assuredly be another war. By the roadside south of Tyre yesterday, there was a huge poster of an Israeli warship struck by a Hizbollah missile in 2006, burning fiercely. "And more to come," the caption announced, archly.I found Hizbollah's exhausted cavalry clopping north, their wilting riders including Che lolling in their saddles, the tired horses veering across the road. So this was what the war was all about."

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 6 years, 11 months ago

Israel herds Palestinians and Lebanese into fish barrel concentration camps, and then opens fire, with predictable results.

jaywalker 6 years, 11 months ago

You guys have to be kidding. The USS Liberty was obviously a case of mistaken identity, wholly unfortunate and accidental, yet those things happen in a war zone.There have to be 10 different accounts, at least, concerning Rachel Corrie's tragic death. The ISM itself could never get their stories straight... she was kneeling, she was standing, she was behind rubble, she was on top of rubble, she was alive after, she was already dead. Considering that the Israeli's had 'always been very careful in the past and had always stopped the bulldozers when we got in the way' (quote from British ISM member), it stands to reason that her's was an unfortunate accident, and again, like the Liberty, not intentional.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 6 years, 11 months ago

I'm not denying that Hizbollah and Hamas engage in terrorist tactics, or that they operate as clandestinely as possible, which includes operating out of civilian areas. But when your opponent has every military advantage, paid for courtesy US taxpayers to the tune of $3 billion a year, is there any real option for them, aside from total, unconditional surrender, which we all know isn't going to happen?But as usual, the defenders of any and every action of Israel are incapable of hearing any criticism of those actions without going all hysterical, and accusing anyone who criticizes Israel of "siding with the terrorists."The fact is, there are terrorists all sides of these conflicts. And as long as the US enables Israel in its terrorism, there will be others who enable the terrorism of Hizbollah and Hamas.

jaywalker 6 years, 11 months ago

We have a winner in our Most Ridiculous Post of the Day contest! Although just_another_bozo threw several entries into the pot, the prize goes to......Invictus:" Israel is the biggest terrorist threat in the world. And Israelis have killed more americans than Iranians."You have 90 minutes to call in and claim your prize, or you can choose door #2 and say it was just a joke, purely sarcasm. Let's ask the audience what they think he should do?(Pick door #2! Pick door #2!)

jaywalker 6 years, 11 months ago

Bozo:"You bore me, screed"And you bore everyone.

monkeyspunk 6 years, 11 months ago

It would be nice if the story mentioned EXACTLY what this main character did before he was arrested. Samir landed in N. Israel, killed a police officer, attacked a family. Samir killed a civilian in front of his daughter, who's skull he then proceeded to crush with the butt of his rifle. The man's wife was hiding in terror with their youngest child. While hiding and trying to keep the child from crying out, she smothered him. When he got back to his Hezbollah brothers, they threw him a party. =D

Flap Doodle 6 years, 11 months ago

Other views on Rachel Corrie: "What are we to make of this new Corrie family jihad? For those whose memories fail them in this matter, let me refresh things. Rachel Corrie was a young fanatic college student from Washington State, who decided she could make the world a better place by showing her solidarity with Middle East terrorism and Palestinian mass murderers. She joined the International Solidarity Movement, a communist-anarchist group who openly support Palestinian terrorism. Corrie set up shop in the Gaza Strip, where she and her ISM comrades spent their days trying to harass and provoke Israeli troops and interfere with Israel's anti-terrorist military operations. They would set up obstacles on roads to prevent Israeli troops and otherwise assist and defend the terrorists. The ISM is probably the campus organization most upfront about its support for the Palestinian "right" to engage in terrorism, and that is saying quite a lot these days!"http://frontpagemag.com/Articles/Read.aspx?GUID=168EA935-8A7F-4128-82A2-FAB20C8940E3

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 6 years, 11 months ago

If you want a fairly unbiased look at this-- as in from someone who isn't a cheerleader for any of the participants-- I repeat this link to Robert Fisk's article.http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/fisk/robert-fisk-theatrical-return-for-the-living-and-the-dead-869724.html

Flap Doodle 6 years, 11 months ago

Worth repeating:"15 July 2008 at 9:09 a.m.spiderman (Anonymous) says:...i am withdrawing from the forum and have sent an email to LJW regarding the same kind of complaints about certan forum members often referred to as 'wingnuts' or the 'witches haven' or other names."Guess we know how long that lasted. ;)

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 6 years, 11 months ago

"Israel herds? Show me a single fact, please."So, you've never heard of checkpoints, security walls, blockades of Gaza, etc., etc.? You're blinded by your single-minded partisanship and xenophobia, screed.

Flap Doodle 6 years, 11 months ago

spiderham, stop emailing meWorth repeating:"15 July 2008 at 9:09 a.m.spiderman (Anonymous) says:...i am withdrawing from the forum and have sent an email to LJW regarding the same kind of complaints about certan forum members often referred to as 'wingnuts' or the 'witches haven' or other names."Guess we know how long that lasted. ;)

monkeyspunk 6 years, 11 months ago

bozo, when weapons fire comes from camps, what are the Israeli's supposed to do? Empty the camps? Then what? Should they roll tanks into the camps and fight it out with them? I'd be interested in hearing your suggestion. You want Israel to withdraw? Well they did withdraw from S. Lebanon, and what happened? Instead of their soldiers being under fire, their Northern cities had rockets landing on them. Screed is not inaccurate when he claims that Hezbollah and Hamas intentionally operate from within population centers and soft targets like schools and hospitals.

monkeyspunk 6 years, 11 months ago

I am with you in some respects Bozo regarding the Israelis who act in a way that can indeed by seen as "heavy handed" at times. But once again, I pose the question, a question I am woefully unable to answer: What should they (the Israelis) do?As long as rockets come out of camps in Gaza and S. Lebanon and the local authorities won't do anything to stop it, then I don't see how you can expect the Israelis to not respond in some way. They send in tanks and they kill civilians. They send in troops they kill civilians. Maybe they should force them all to leave and reduce all of the cities to rubble, force those in Gaza to Egypt, and those in the West Bank into Jordan, how's that for a solution? That's how Hamas and Hezbollah would handle the situation.And you can't sit there and say the Israelis haven't been willing to negotiate and act amiably! Israel has torn down many illegal settlements, a move that was incredibly unpopular. Still rocket attacks. Israel pulled out of S. Lebanon, still rocket attacks. Israel reached deals with Abbas and Fatah, yet Hamas still attacks. What would YOU have them do?

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 6 years, 11 months ago

Yes, I know, screed, you'll discount any opinion that doesn't include the right of Israel to murder anyone with impunity.

jaywalker 6 years, 11 months ago

Bozo blathers:"I'm not denying that Hizbollah and Hamas engage in terrorist tactics, ..."Deny it? Hezbollah is largely believed to be the 'inventor' of suicide bombing, and they began this cowardly tactic IN Israel."or that they operate as clandestinely as possible, which includes operating out of civilian areas."'Clandestine' is a sugary way to describe firing rocket launchers mounted on jeeps from inside hospital parking garages. Hezbollah knows Israel can pinpoint where the rockets originate from, so they fire a barrage and then speed away. That way, their terrorists can live to fight again and the hospital gets hit, which they use as propaganda for brain trusts like you; "Look at what the evil Israel has wrought upon innocents!" (Bozo: "Israel murdered more than a thousand, mostly women and children and other civilians, simply because they were in Lebanon")"But when your opponent has every military advantage, paid for courtesy US taxpayers to the tune of $3 billion"Hezbollah is an Iranian produced terrorist militia, funded substantially by both Iran and Syria. Hezbollah's PRIMARY goal is the 'obliteration of the State of Israel'. Yet shame on us for helping our ally, eh Bozo?"..as long as the US enables Israel in its terrorism.."The story this string dangles from is the conclusion of an incident where Hezbollah kidnapped(from Israeli soil), tortured, and killed two Israeli soldiers. And they did this to get their terrorist brother back, who had murdered civilians and crushed a little girls skull. The kidnapping launched a war, in which many innocent Lebanese were killed due to the cowardice and indefensible tactics of this terrorist organization. And hundreds of rockets were fired daily, indiscriminately, into Israel. Do you know what that big word between the commas means, Bozo? They didn't care where the rockets landed. Any Israeli would do. But Israel is the terrorist? To quote a ridiculously ignorant poster, " Man, are you out of touch."

monkeyspunk 6 years, 11 months ago

Screed,I assume you know that those soldiers were captured alive and transfered into Lebanon alive. They were killed in captivity. I will check out your link. I invite you to read about the SLA camp known as Khiam. I am not defending anyone, just would like to defend my point from earlier about "heavy handedness".I think it unfair to say that bozo would like to see the Israelis kicked out though, I have never seen him mention that. I am simply challenging his notion that the Israeli's can just turn it off or that we can somehow pull the plug. He's an advocate for the "little guy", got to respect that and I can admit I have sympathy for both sides of the current conflict, as much as an outside observer can have I guess.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 6 years, 11 months ago

Israel murdered more than a thousand, mostly women and children and other civilians, simply because they were in Lebanon.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 6 years, 11 months ago

Ya'll can spin as much as you want. You're the only ones defending terrorism, although only when committed by Israel. I'm the only one here condemning all acts of terrorism, no matter who does it.Your double standards, situational ethics and general hypocrisy are showing.

bad_dog 6 years, 11 months ago

Here comes the onslaught of "cooltube" videos. Not that adopting similar behavioral patterns means spiderman is "cool" or "sven" or anything like that...

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