Archive for Monday, July 7, 2008

Coming to a cage near you: Mixed Martial Arts hitting local scene

Twenty fighters participated in a cage fight in Lawrence in late June.

July 7, 2008

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Joe Stark, right, leaps at Lance Yoder as their cage fight begins on a recent Friday at Coyote's nightclub, near 23rd Street and Haskell Avenue. Cage fighting, also called Mixed Martial Arts, is gaining popularity across the country and in Lawrence.

Joe Stark, right, leaps at Lance Yoder as their cage fight begins on a recent Friday at Coyote's nightclub, near 23rd Street and Haskell Avenue. Cage fighting, also called Mixed Martial Arts, is gaining popularity across the country and in Lawrence.

Mark Sears, center, is congratulated after he won a recent bout at Coyote's. Yoder, a co-worker and friend of Sears' who fought later that night, is at right.

Mark Sears, center, is congratulated after he won a recent bout at Coyote's. Yoder, a co-worker and friend of Sears' who fought later that night, is at right.

Sears warms up before his fight.

Sears warms up before his fight.

On the street

Have you ever watched Mixed Martial Arts?

Once at a friend’s house. He loves it, but it’s not for me.

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Lance Yoder's 38-year old body was a water-starved mass of cramps and knots. That much you could see as the light of an intermittent street lamp broke the darkness of a Friday night.

As Yoder lay in the unmanicured grass the near the back exit of Coyote's nightclub, it was obvious his pride had to be hurting, too. That happens when another man gets his hands around your neck and crushes the air right out of you.

"At least he didn't hit me in the broken rib," Yoder, a construction worker by day, said with a laugh that rattled his sore torso.

This is the backstage of cage fighting.

Watching a grown man lay motionless - except for a heaving chest - is a part of the show that a $25 ticket or a prime seat within arm's length of the action doesn't entitle you to see.

But don't worry, Lawrence. The front stage of cage fighting is becoming more prominent than ever in the city.

The sport or the contest - take your pick - of cage fighting has exploded nationally. Now, the rumbles are being felt locally. Lawrence-based promoter Darryl Clark hopes to put together a series of local fights this year. Clark, a local martial arts instructor, is looking for other venues to host future fights.

The June 27 fight at Coyote's was the second in the last year. A crowd of about 500 showed up at the country-and-western nightclub near 23rd Street and Haskell Avenue. Some waxed near poetic about how this was the sport of a new generation.

"We are a generation that has kind of lost ourselves, man," said Othellis Roper, a correctional worker from Independence, Mo. "We don't have any great struggle. We don't really have anything to believe in. We were taught that we could be rock stars and movie stars and we're finding out that is not true.

"This right here though, you can make something of yourself. In the arena, the gladiators are taller than giants right now."

Others were less philosophical.

"It is just raw," Mike Glor said. "Where else can you see two guys get in a ring and just bludgeon the (expletive) out of each other?"

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On this night, there were 10 fights. Twenty would-be bludgeoners, who willfully entered a 22-foot round cage with the goal of mustering whatever skills they could to either pound, kick, grapple or intimidate their opponent into submission.

Some had more skills than others.

But they all had style, both literally and figuratively. Technically all of the fighters had adopted one or more fighting styles. They ranged from any of the martial arts such as judo to a popular form of kickboxing called Muay Thai.

But their bag of tricks also can include traditional boxing or wrestling skills. The multiple styles is why the corporate types - and there's plenty these days as the professional events have landed on network television and become pay-per-view cash cows - call the sport Mixed Martial Arts.

But for some in the crowd, the fighting styles are secondary. They're here for the style.

They watch men in oversized boxers that serve as a southern boundary for abs that are ripped and chests that are lathered. Yes, the crowd included plenty of ladies.

Then there's the music. Predominantly it is pounding drums and amped guitar licks that create a rattle before the rumble, although a Waylon Jennings tribute to outlaws is the tune that brought the house down.

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Yoder enters the ring to an expletive-laden, heavy-metal salvo to America. He makes a barefoot lap around the spectator area, a hardwood planked floor that long ago was marred by roller skates but more recently by cowboy boots.

The lap ends at the cage door, where a doctor - Rance McClain, a Kansas City specialist in sports medicine - sits to watch each fight. Fighters undergo a quick visual check of vital signs before they enter the ring.

Earlier in the day they were given a more thorough exam when they weighed in for the fight. A crew of paramedics with Lawrence-Douglas County Fire & Medical also was on hand with an ambulance for the event.

Fighters participating in the professional class - where prize money sometimes can be a few thousand dollars - are required by the state's Kansas Boxing Commissioner to have blood tests checking for diseases that could be spread by open wounds. Amateur fighters, however, aren't required to have the blood tests.

McClain said that regulation probably needs to be strengthened, but for the most part the sport is well-regulated. And, although it definitely is rough, he said the sport wasn't more dangerous than many other contact sports.

"I'm no busier here than I am at football games I work," McClain said. "A lot of the same types of injuries - concussions, bumps, bruises, cuts."

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Once the cage door closes, what takes place could be described as a locker room fight on steroids. It is rough and semi-ruleless. But there are also bodies - a referee and a state inspector from the Kansas State Athletic Commission - standing by to intercede if the fighters get out of hand.

On this night, most fights lasted less than four minutes - although they were scheduled to go three rounds of three to five minutes per round.

There were a few punchers - in the lingo of MMA, guys who sprawl and brawl. Bloody punches weren't frequent, but they weren't entirely absent either. Word around the ring is that one solid punch produced a broken jaw. Based on the sideways teeth of the still smiling fighter, it undoubtedly produced a nice fee for a dentist.

There were a few more Bruce Lee- or Chuck Norris-inspired fighters who attacked with leaping kicks from the lightly padded ring floor. But the most successful of fighters seemed to be grapplers - the type of geometry warriors who rely on the proper angles and leverage points to produce enough pain that their opponents no longer want to continue.

And, of course, there were winners and losers. Yoder lost his fight - a back and forth affair - in less than five minutes after he was unable to escape a neck hold that cut off his air supply.

It was the second loss in a career that stretches back to 1995. Afterward, Yoder didn't let on that it was any more crushing than any other fight.

"We both just did what we do," he said.

But this was one of the few fights that his 11-year-old daughter attended.

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There was some joy, though, in Larryville fight circles. Mark Sears - Yoder's roommate - won a fight earlier in the evening. A professional box handler at the Kmart Distribution Center, Sears stands 5 feet, 5 inches tall and weighs 135 pounds. He says he doesn't fight so much because of some small-guy complex. Instead, a male affliction even more common drives him - high school regret.

"I didn't wrestle my junior or senior year," said Sears, who started wrestling in the fourth grade. "I fell in love with my high school sweetheart and got distracted. That's always been one of my regrets that I never finished up my wrestling career when I was a kid.

"But now I have this. I don't have to feel like I left any dreams behind."

Sears had glory on this night. He won his fight - via a chokehold - in less than two minutes. But he thought the victory was sloppy.

Near the back door, where Yoder still lies, any victory would be welcome. Before the fight, Yoder had wondered aloud how much longer his 38-year old body would allow him to continue.

He knew the end was much nearer than the beginning.

But now, lying with closed eyes and a near-buried head, Yoder is in no mood to strike up that conversation again. No mood to talk about why he fights. At that moment he doesn't know why.

He just knows he will again.

"I would love a rematch with this guy because I can beat him," Yoder said before taking a pause that bordered on reflective. "Yeah, I think that is probably coming next."

Comments

Dixie Jones 6 years, 10 months ago

and yes yankeelady he is the one and the same owner..

Daytrader23 6 years, 10 months ago

Fighting to beat the crap out of each other is not a sport.Basketball now thats a sport. Why don't we throw some lions and grizzly bears in the cage and make it more interesting, in fact why don't we just go back to being barbarians. Ignorance is what fuels this crap.And don't bother replying to this comment, I already know which part of the brain you think with.

jayhawker85 6 years, 10 months ago

Daytrader23... You are completely ignorant. You know nothing about mixed martial arts. To make it simple for you, imagine wrestling and martial arts combined and that's what you get. Most of the athletes at the professional level train very hard and are in better shape than most basketball and football players...If you care to make an informed response, I suggest you do your research before you comment on the sport.http://sports.espn.go.com/extra/mma/index

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 6 years, 10 months ago

Comparing it to boxing or even football as a way to make it seem "acceptable" isn't going to cut it. Both of those "mainstream" sports have strong elements of sadomasochism, and MMA just ups the ante on it. I wouldn't advocate banning it, but all of those engaged in it, both as fighters and spectators, should at least admit to their sadomasochism.

Phil Minkin 6 years, 10 months ago

". A crew of paramedics with Lawrence-Douglas County Fire & Medical also was on hand with an ambulance for the event."Are the taxpayers of Douglas County paying for this?

monkeyspunk 6 years, 10 months ago

snoopy_79 hit right on the head. Many high level MMA fighters are masters in jujitsu and can end fights with out landing a blow. At times, MMA is much less violent than football or even basketball, let alone boxing. northtown and Daytrader23, if you've never watched it, how are you able truly make an informed comment on it? Do you know anyone who does it? Have you done it yourself? (HAHAHAHA, sorry, I couldn't help myself)I think calling this the "de-evolution" of humanity is a bit over dramatic and down right ignorant. Ever heard of the Roman gladiators? Fighting for sport has been around forever, in much less controlled environments. And instead of someone getting killed at the end of these, these guys usually get up and give each other a hug.

hail2oldku 6 years, 10 months ago

Unfortunately for the detractors on here that have seen an MMA match it was Kimbo Slice on CBS or NBC about a month ago. Talk about the wrong guy to be trying to build a brand around. He definitely is a simple brawler. Put him in the Octagon with one of the higher level MMA league fighters and it would be very short work.

Chad Collins 6 years, 10 months ago

Sad to think that the finest athletes in the world are criticized for the evolution of their sport. Only someone who doesn't understand the sport of MMA would be so judgmental. I won't downplay it's violent nature, but I will defend it when criticized by ignorance.

hail2oldku 6 years, 10 months ago

"Ever heard of the Roman gladiators?"Ever seen a grown man naked?(Sorry, couldn't resist.)

KU_Dude 6 years, 10 months ago

I'd pay to see Cool & Svengalli in one of these fights.

Chad Collins 6 years, 10 months ago

Foodboy:Just like any sporting event, paramedics are on hand. Yes, you and I pay for it.

Daytrader23 6 years, 10 months ago

The de-evolution of humans. Acting like monkeys in a cage is popular in Lawrence, now that does not surprise me one bit. And what is a professional box handler anyways?Real martial arts can be beautiful, but this cage fighting is not an art form. This is primitive ape chest pounding at it's best.

EXks 6 years, 10 months ago

Hey, wouldn't it be fun to watch your mother-in-laws do this???

Chad Collins 6 years, 10 months ago

Ignorance...."That Iceman guy""95% of the time it's a bunch of amateurs beating the crap out of each other and then they call it mma."You know nothing about the sport of Mixed Martial Arts.

Buggie7 6 years, 10 months ago

My son is a cage fighter. He has a fight coming up in columbia mo this month and its really hard becuase I have always watched my kids' sports that they have participated in but I have a feeling with this one it may rather be difficult. Ill just wanna go up and beat the heck outt whomever is messin with my kid lol. My son is really good and he does know jujitsu like someone listed above. I just keep reminding him though that it only takes one better than you to knock your lights out.

rumor_man 6 years, 10 months ago

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acg 6 years, 10 months ago

Strap your wallet to a chain, comb your mullet out all pretty, pull your favorite Dokken shirt off the floor and put 'er on, and get ready folks, cause cage fighting is coming to KS. If'n ya'll ain't interested in the cage fight, I'm sure there'll be a NASCAR race, a dog fight or a tractor pull you can attend instead.

whiskeysour 6 years, 10 months ago

I have to admit, I am a fan, at least of the UFC and some of the more established and organized promotions. I certainly don't fit into the category so articulately described as "white trash". I'm well educated - having earned a master's degree and now working on a PhD - self sufficient, and a productive member of society. It seems that most on this board, and probably throughout society miss understand or willfully ignore the commonality between mixed martial arts and other established sports and activities within society. Broadly speaking, this type of knee jerk reaction to mixed martial arts willfully ignores violence in all facets of acceptable societal activity. This is especially true of activities such as football and wrestling, popular among youth participants and adult fans, which rely upon physical domination of another. Wrestling certainly has long historical roots, going back to ancient Greece and more than likely beyond.More specifically, the commentator who described "violence as trendy" and somehow indicative of a degradation of American culture clearly does not understand the long history of prize fighting (boxing) going back well into the 19th century. Perhaps, if I should be so cavalier as to recommend a bit of a history lesson, a reading of Elliott Gorn's "Manly Art: Bare- knuckle Prize Fighting in America" which to summarize, details the use of prize fighting by lower classes to assert masculine identity within society, might illuminate just how enduring physical tests of strength are in American life. Even prior to American society, physical tests of strength which pitted two contestants against one another have long been staged. Moreover, the label of "two grown men hugging" or do not accurately describe mixed martial arts. Participants utilize a variety of techniques to "control the octagon" and strike their opponent including jujitsu, muay thai boxing, judo, and traditional boxing and kickboxing. Certainly wrestling and grappling are present, but only as one available aspect of the sport. In an Olympic year it is ironic that mixed marital arts is being criticized because almost all components are themselves individual Olympic events: wrestling, judo, and boxing. Before the participants are themselves degraded, I think it would behoove everyone to understand who they are as individuals without making blanket generalizations something that this forum unfortunately is notorious for. In this regard, I would point people to http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/ben_fowlkes/06/29/white.collar.fighters/index.html which demonstrates that many mixed martial artists left full time, well paying careers to pursue fighting full time. They are not, you'll find, "white trash" men without other options of providing for themselves.

jonas 6 years, 10 months ago

Marion: Errr. . . well that might not have been the direction I'd have gone with it, but to each his own.

Daytrader23 6 years, 10 months ago

Monkeyspunk...I have watched it, I even know one of the greatest fighters was Royce Gracie and now this Iceman guy. Yes the true masters of the martial arts can make beautiful moves that disable their opponents. But 95% of the time it's a bunch of amateurs beating the crap out of each other and then they call it mma. More like street fighting in a cage, which is not beautiful, it's ugly violence.

Confrontation 6 years, 10 months ago

"For all of you that believe this sport to be barbaric either do not understand it or are choosing to only see the brutality involved."I can't believe someone actually posted this. Too many hits to the head!

yankeelady 6 years, 10 months ago

Isn't the owner of the club the same person who brought us Last call?

ksharddem 6 years, 10 months ago

For all of you that believe this sport to be barbaric either do not understand it or are choosing to only see the brutality involved. MMA in many ways is safer than boxing. Most fights end in the first round with competitors only sustaining 15 hits to the head unlike boxing which goes for several more rounds and results in 50+ hits to the head. As for the uneducated fighters in this article, I have 3 undergraduate degrees, 2 Master's, 6 black belts in different forms of martial arts and almost 30 professional fights. Come watch the fights with me and let me explain what is taking place. I have found that once people understand the fight, they are less harsh on it or its competitors.

jonas 6 years, 10 months ago

Sorry, Marion, at this point it looks like there's a Lot of people breaking the first two rules of Fight Club.

fu7il3 6 years, 10 months ago

Of course, wrestling and other martial arts are among the oldest sports in the world. I don't think that many martial artists are running around with wallet chains and hair band shirts.MMA draws huge crowds in Japan. It's one of the fastest growing sports in popularity in the US.

fu7il3 6 years, 10 months ago

"Now to throw a jab in boxing correctly and bring it back to a guarded postion without getting hit that takes some years of training."Exactly, it does. And in MMA, you have to learn to throw a jab correctly without getting punched kicked, thrown, swept, or caught in a submission. How many years of training should that take? In boxing, you know the guy is punching, and you know the guy is punching only your upper torso and head. In MMA, you have to be ready for anything your opponent might do.

rumor_man 6 years, 10 months ago

Come on LJW. I hope this is better.....You forgot to mention the fighting that is done with chickens acg,

Leprechaunking13 6 years, 10 months ago

Tiamak, I realize that you think you are the end all be all with your boxing. However I mentioned much more about the sport than just names of fighters. You do realize that most professional MMA fighters have boxing coaches so its really no surprise that you were brought in to help with that skill. You need to open your eyes to the world of professional fighting my friend, I'm a trainer(contrary to your comment that I just sit and watch sports and haven't done anything physical) I have to know how to train all kinds of athletes, not just boxers like you. I watch all kinds of fighting including boxing along with any other sport i can to understand the kinesiology(like you know what that is) of each of them, and I can assure you that pro MMA fighters outwork 90% of athletes in training alone, look up there workouts.

Chad Collins 6 years, 10 months ago

Tiamak, The truth is, professional MMA athletes are much better trained and more skilled than any boxer, anywhere. The reason boxing is failing is due to the fact that MMA has filled the void that boxing fans have been searching for since Tyson. There is actual excitement within each fight. When you add top notch athleticism, you get a full arena and millions of PPV purchases. Most boxing enthusiasts are just like you though, they play the hater card because they know it's inevitable. Boxing can't compete. Many MMA fighters are skilled in some form of Martial Arts in addition to Boxing or Wrestling or Kick Boxing, there is no reason a true boxing fan should hate or even downplay MMA. The problem is, we've got these small time promotional companies allowing small time fights which end up in nothing but unskilled beatings of each other. I think MMA does get a bad rap, mostly from people who have never seen or who fail to grasp that this is simply the evolution of what boxing wanted to be. For you to say that learning multiple degrees of a martial art is easier than reading a play book or learning a jab is absolutely ridiculous. Regarding the gentleman from Lawrence who is fighting for a world title...Exactly which one of the 38 recognized organizations does he plan to win a belt from. Will they have a parade? No.

Tiamak 6 years, 10 months ago

So Leprechaunking, you went out an read a book. Good for you. Your a jock rider as well I challenge you to do some boxing training. Hell you can even do MMA train for all I care. Bottom line is MMA will never have a fighter with the leagacy of the fighters I named off. No matter how good they are.Also I have a sport to defend, you probably have never done any thing physical more than watching MMA and stuffing your face with chips and dips trying to argue a sport that the only thing you know about it is the fighters names. So don't claim to know everything about the sport unless you participated in it (Jim Rome).Also because you learn one move in another form of martial arts doesn't make you a master of that discipline. I do believe it takes years to become a black belt in any asian form of martial arts as well as the brazillan forms also.Funny the move Rampage Jackson does when he lifts the guy up in the air and slams him on his back, what he calls the Rampage Bomb, correct me if I'm wrong isn't that a pro wrestling move called a powerbomb. So I guess Rampage learned the art of script fighting as well.That must be another discipline.Oh yeah, I know one of the MMA fighters that fought out there at Coyote's. He fights out of Topeka, funny he asked for my help to learn to punch correctly while in a standing position. Hmm, standing up and punching correctly, sounds a whole lot like boxing. I have given MMA it's props many times but for you and all of the other fans that say it is going to take over boxing. I do believe to other organizations try to do the same thing. USFL and XFL.

Tiamak 6 years, 10 months ago

Snoopy_79 since have you ever done a contact sport if so I would really like to see that on display. Like I said feel free to come to Haskell tonight at 6 pm and watch what the difference is between MMA and boxing or come to the KU student rec center where you can be my guest. I will let you train an actual 3 minute boxing round and I will show you the diffrence of the two sports. When the MMA guys say they trained in Jujitsu, wrestling, boxing or karate I want to know how long they trained and what level of experince they reached. I have watched many MMA fights and barley a hand full of the fighters can throw a proper jab. Which in the sport of MMA is called a strike. You say the MMA guys are skilled in the other forms of martial arts right, outside of the Gracie family or the Shamrock family and even Rampage Jackson how many of these guys have been at a level they can say they are a master at. Hardly any. Once again open invitaion to you anytime you want to test your knowledge of both sports. I teach boxing and I have had the privileage of know a few pro boxers and a few guys that was on the USA Karate team, now those guys are true fighters.Don't be a jock rider come out and see first hand how the two compare and if seeing first hand doesn't change your mind about how much better a boxer is then I will shake your hand an admit your right.

daddax98 6 years, 10 months ago

Anonymous usersnoopy_79 (Anonymous) says:Foodboy:Just like any sporting event, paramedics are on hand. Yes, you and I pay for it.___________Actually the paramedics are doing this as a moonlight job and are paid by the person hosting the event. It pays to have the paramedics there because the insurance rates are much lower.

Tiamak 6 years, 10 months ago

The true artisitc forms for martial arts isn't MMA though you do have guys that have trained in other disciplines of martial arts most of the fighters haven't achieved a level of difficulty to say they have mastered that form.Anyone can be an MMA fighter there is no real training to become such an person. Boxing, Football, Basketball, Karate and Jujitsu you become and amatuer first then hopefully a pro. MMA you train for a few months and then you are in the cage fighting. I respect the MMA circuit for trying to get the sport into the mainstream.The violence is the only thing you can compare to football, boxing or even hockey. It takes years to be a good football player or boxer. If you want to see the different side of either of those true sports go to haskell around 6 pm or up to KU student rec center or watch boxers being trained or go to some of KU's football practices or the local high schools those sports that take time to develop technique. For people to say MMA is a very technical sport I say not. It doesn't take much to tackle someone and start pounding the persons head into the ground. I've seen that at ever bar in Lawrence. Now to throw a jab in boxing correctly and bring it back to a guarded postion without getting hit that takes some years of training.To read a big football playbook takes time to understand that as well. MMA will be around for a long time, because it is the in thing right now. It will get corrupt just like all professional sports and soon people will get mad at it as well. Bottom line is people are just paying money for new old form of fighting that used to be free if you went to Coyotes, Last Call, Brothers or any other bar around town. If you think it is horrible then don't go to watch it, that goes with any other sport. Funny thing though I'm surprised that the fights at Coyote's is getting so much attention most sports don't get that much attention unless it has to do with KU basketball or football.There is a young man from Lawrence that is getting ready to fight for a world boxing title and he only got mentioned in the Lawrence.com magazine. He should be getting time in the newspaper more than guys that are not ever from Lawrence. I wonder if the city will give him a parade if he wins the world title. Go look in some of the journal worlds archives and see how the MMA guys compare to a real local fighter of the likes of Wesley Walker or Marcus OIivera.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 6 years, 10 months ago

In my younger years, I studied various forms of martial arts, and over about a 6-7 year period, I did a lot of sparring-- mostly fairly controlled, with the occasional near full-contact session. (I valued my teeth and brain cells too much to do true full contact.)It was a lot of fun, and the adrenaline rush is truly addictive, which is why people will put up with the pain and nagging injuries to do it.If someone is well-trained in their techniques, whether it's boxing, karate, kung fu, jujitsu, judo, etc., it's possible to spar without great risk of serious injury.But that takes some level of restraint and self-control from the participants. It seems to me that restraint and self-control are anathema to MMA-- the main purpose appears to be to inflict serious injury.But that's not so different from professional boxing and martial arts, and a high percentage of veterans of professional football have serious brain injuries, and/or are crippled by the time they are 50. Much of the appeal of auto racing is similarly based on the potential for injurious or fatal outcomes.

rumor_man 6 years, 10 months ago

This would be a legitimate sport if they'd remove the cage. rolls eyes

igby 6 years, 10 months ago

It is amazing that Steffes continues the promote and atmosphere of violence, in some way or another. What liquor sales won't bring, somehow, the violence sales even though it's caged this time.

coolmom 6 years, 10 months ago

i caught this on t.v. not long ago. i was suprised but i watched in fascination for quite some time. i have a kid who is a 3rd degree black belt and i wouldnt want her to fight but it was nice to see the stuff she has learned in action.

tolawdjk 6 years, 10 months ago

The man toook his 11 yr old daughter? "Hey honey, want to go see Daddy get his ass kicked doing his hobby?"Was it bring your daughter to work day or did he just want to make SRS's job easier?

Christine Pennewell Davis 6 years, 10 months ago

ok it is not boxing it is not martial arts it is mixed martial arts just pointing out the obviuse. Like it don't like it no biggie to me but please do not call it one or the other it is many things not just one.

Confrontation 6 years, 10 months ago

Hey, guys, if you could all just look past the beatings, blood, missing teeth, and permanent brain damage, then it's just a bunch of fun guys jumping around and having a good ol' time.

Haiku_Cuckoo 6 years, 10 months ago

This type of thing has existed since the 1970s. Back then it was billed as a "Tough Guy Contest" and it allowed people to pay a nominal entry fee to prove their manliness. It was usually nothing more than drunken hillbillies throwing sluggish haymakers at one another. The only thing that has changed is that this is now being promoted in the same style as "professional" wrestling, with all the glam and glitz.

fu7il3 6 years, 10 months ago

I saw a fight between a boxer and (I believe) a Gracie in the early days of UFC. The boxer looked great...for all of about 15 seconds until he was on the ground. Saying that fighters other than the Shamrocks and Gracies are not experts in some form of martial arts is ludicris.Chuck Lidell has studied karate since he was 12, and was a division I wrestler.Randy Couture was a good enough wrestler to be an alternate on the olympic team for three different olympics.Matt Hughes was an all-american in wrestling.Patt Miletich has black belts in Karate and Brazilian Ju Jistu.These aren't guys that are getting out of the pick-up putting on a pair of gloves and brawling it out. Quite frankly, with due respect to the local guys, most of them compare to professional fighters about as well as the pitcher on your rec league softball team compares with Curt Schilling.However, there are definately different levels of MMA, just as there are in boxing, i'm sure. All you have to do is turn on the TV to see that the guys on WEC or IFL aren't on the same plane as the UFC or Pride. The guys at Coyote's are in a realm far below that. Like I said, all due respect, I'm sure the trainers here in town are competent and will correct that given time.

Tiamak 6 years, 10 months ago

Snoopy_79 I' will deal with you first. No I'm not an angry man you where the one that attacked boxing also I gave the MMA credit for trying to get they're sport off the ground. But when people like you say that it's going to take over boxing that shows your level of thinking. Besides with a name like Snoopy_79 I'm not really worried about who I mouth off to mostly you. The sport of MMA might stay around for a while you don't know and I don't know. Also look at the records of the champions in the sport, you call a guy with a record of 12 - 7 a champion come on. You are the one that said first that MMA fighters are better athletes than boxers. So you call Tank Abbout and Kimbo better athletes than Mike Tyson and Floyd Mayweather. I would like to see you argue that. Remember MMA is only three 5 mintue rounds. Are those consider championship rounds. If so that is 15 minutes. Now boxing is 12 three minute rounds big difference, plus a one minute rest period. I want to see the top MMA guy go that long and if and when that ever happens I will shake your hand and take you to dinner so you can continue to try to prove your point. I have watch a couple of Royce Gracies fights and I respect him as a true martial arts master not an MMA fighter.

Tiamak 6 years, 10 months ago

Snoopy_79, I didn't say that learning multiple forms of martial arts is easier than throwing a jab or reading a playbook. I said to throw a jab if more technical than tackling someone and trying to pound them on the ground. Just try all three sports football, boxing and MMA I just want you to see which one you think is easy. I watch all forms of martial arts and yes I biased of boxing because I have done it and achieved in the sport. I'm biased of Karate because I know top level fighters the reason why i'm biased is they are both disciplned sports.

fu7il3 6 years, 10 months ago

Boxing is a martial art, as is wrestling, judo, tae kwondo, aikido, karate and countless others.

Tiamak 6 years, 10 months ago

The guys I mentioned are the one I'm familar with. Like before I'm not taking anything away from MMA, you have to put your name out there some how. But for MMA to say they are taking over boxing that is ludicris. The only reason everyone is talking that jive is that there are no american heavyweight fighters out there at this time. Which the heavyweight are what most people want to watch because of the knockouts. You named off I guess some good fighters I don't know, don't follow the sport that hard but just to name a few myselfMuhammed AliSugar Ray RobinsonSugar Ray LenoardFloyd PattersonJack DempseyJoe LouisWillie Pepand oh yeah Rocky MarcianoThat list is legacy I've just listed. How many MMA guys will reach legacy as the likes of any of the fighters I listed.Yes there are good and bad leagues of each sport there are good and bad fighters of each sport. But when the MMA can ever reach the leagcy of the first fighter I listed then I will say the sport has achieved greatness.

sourpuss 6 years, 10 months ago

I don't care if two guys want to beat each other up, as long as they are both consenting. I'm not going to watch it, but I don't care that it is happening.I cannot help but be amused by the fact that these men feel the need to assert themselves in this manner. I picture two rams butting heads over a female. Ah well.

Leprechaunking13 6 years, 10 months ago

How many of those boxers are from the last 10 to 15 years. Yes those were all great boxers, it takes a lot to be a master of a discipline like boxing but you are so ignorant in defending your sport that you forget the discipline it takes to learn 5 disciplines, and be able to use them effectively. As the saying goes "a jack of all trades and master of none". Thats MMA in a box, except many of the fighters now are brazilian jiu jitsui black belts, pro and amateur alike. Many train for years before they get a fight outside of the training center. Don't make your decision on this ever evolving sport from the lowest rankings of the sport watch the pros like the UFC fighters. You don't base sports like basketball or football from highschool or junior high players you watch the pros. Its also funny that you say true forms of martial arts is beautiful, ever hear of pankration? Its a Greek form of martial arts that some think gave rise to ALL martial arts throughout Asia by Alexander the Great, and its almost identical to MMA.......not to take away from boxing haha

atavism 6 years, 10 months ago

If a PhD student says it, it must be true. Despite claims to knowledge and a supposed cultural 'reading' of a 'social history,' (s)he fails to mention the homoerotic tendencies that this 'sport's' heritage would suggest--tendencies that are generally considered to be implicit in sports like football... What I find troublesome is that while this behaviour is sanctioned and condoned in the name of sport, similar practices in the name of 'togetherness' are openly protested and banned.Frankly, however, if two grown men want to 'grapple' each other in an east Lawrence cage in order to prove their manhood, I say let them indulge their fantasies. But, let me ask--is Coyote's a leather bar?

Chad Collins 6 years, 10 months ago

I should have checked in earlier, wow! Tiamak, you are an angry man and not well educated, as told by your grammar. First of all, just because you've trained some boxers doesn't give you the right to judge people and their activity level. You should be careful of who you mouth off to, you might just know them. Hell, you might even run into them from time to time, with one of those times ending badly. You aren't the only person with access to a gym, meat head. However, you are correct, I'm not a boxer or trained in any of the Martial Arts. I have some wrestling background but never competed at a collegiate level. I only did that to stay in shape for football. To say I haven't competed in a contact sport is false (Again, you shouldn't judge too quickly). This doesn't eliminate me from being able to enjoy athleticism at it's finest level and defend it when being attacked. I give props to Boxing and it's storied history but I refuse to let someone trash an up and coming sport. A boxer that hates MMA is like a fat man hating food, it doesn't make sense. To see the sport of boxing evolve and combine with the sport of MMA should be good for both sports. Give MMA a chance to grow and blossom and you'll see individuals become legend for sure. Within the MMA community some see Royce Gracie as that kind of figure now. As a fan of sport, I hope to see MMA flourish into something bigger than boxing with the legends you speak of.

Chad Collins 6 years, 10 months ago

Go ahead, bash the name, you know nothing of what it means. Records of Champions in the sport:Lightweight Champ 14-4-1 Welterweight Champ 16-2Middleweight Champ 22-4Light Heavyweight 15-4I'd put Georges-St-Pierre, Anderson Silva and Randy Couture up against any boxer in the world at any level as far as conditioning goes. Your argument for better athletes will not hold water. Obviously you've never wrestled because the amount of energy you expend boxing can't even compete to a grappler. It's science. HA! This is why they have fewer rounds than boxing. In most technical boxing matches, they will spend 2 to 3 rounds "feeling each other out." The championship level matches within the UFC are 5 rounds at 5 minutes. Personally, I know I could never have wrestled for that amount of time at a competitive level anyway. Your boxers couldn't either. Not to say Floyd Mayweather or Roy Jones couldn't because they are great athletes. Again, these guys are probably the best athletes in the world. Hands down. Many people would agree. I understand that boxing has a long legacy and I appreciate it. This discussion means nothing until they actually start to intermingle. I know that some boxers have considered it, but they know better:.

Tiamak 6 years, 10 months ago

Leprechaunking, you can always try to see if I box better than I debate, we can have a friendly sparring session when ever you like. Mike Tyson lost to Buster Douglas who still had a impressive record. For god sakes Tank Abbout was regarded as one of MMA's best fighters. So is he the exception to the rule of a better athlete.I will make a counter point, how many MMA fights do you think would last more than five rounds. The reason why is those guys are trained to fight short fights (3, five minute rounds). Boxers are trained to five 12 rounds and before that it was 15 rounds, that is a level of fighting most MMA guys will never see in their life time. Don't get me wrong there are some good athlete's in the world of MMA fighting. Each sport is different, but answer this if boxing had another fighter like Mike Tyson right now do you think the sport of MMA could touch boxing? MMA is great for right now but it will even out after a while just like all sports do. Like I said before I applaud the fighters of MMA for putting their sport in the mainstream of the american viewers but the sport has been around for a while in Japan. I actually watched it then when it was Pride, K1 and Japanese Shoot wrestling. It was a much better product than what you see now. Actually way better product. I also noticed that the UFC major show was number 89 or some where around that number, so what happens when it hits 100, how do you promote a organization that is younger than every major sporting event in america but it has had more major show than the Super Bowl and the World Series. Hell it has even surpassed Wrestle Mania. Don't you think that will hurt the sport in the long run?

geniusmannumber1 6 years, 10 months ago

How come whenever I go to an MMA fight, the fighters take off all their clothes and start making out? http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080708/ap_en_mo/faked_fight_nights

Leprechaunking13 6 years, 10 months ago

Tiamak, think boxing would have that many rounds if it had the aspects of a ground combat involved in it? Remember when Tyson lost his belt to a lesser known fighter with a worse record? Champion in the world of fighting is generally the guy who beat the last guy with the belt, im not sure which fighter you were referring to with a 12-7 record but this isn't the only time that happens. I hope you box better that you debate.....

Leprechaunking13 6 years, 10 months ago

Tiamak, no boxing would not come back into the spotlight if a Tyson-esque fighter re-emerged(didnt he have a half brother that tried) because no one wants to see sluggers biting peoples ears off! You seem way to quick to defend your boxing prowess(which I dont think you really have all that much of, by your arguments and your eagerness to get in a "sparring" match with anonymous people on a blog)without considering all sides of each argument. I think its amusing you have mentioned nothing about Floyd Maywether who is the face of your sport now! UFC has been around in the U.S. for a long time, just underground, Japan has been much more accepting of it. Honestly you are rediculous continuing to argue something you have no real aregument for! All I have left to tell you is learn all sides of something before you start bashing it, especially if its something you dont watch or pay attention to. Have fun trying to get people to spar with you anonymously hahahaha, props to snoopy you know what's up leave this clown to his boxing soon he will be the only purist left lol

Tiamak 6 years, 10 months ago

Leprechaunking, grammer kid, learn to write. You and Snoopy_79 both bashed boxing I didn't attck your favorite sport of MMA. Still for you to try and sit there and say that boxers aren't as good as athletes as MMA fighters your both ridiculus. I not E my clown friend. Also your a personal trainer you say so just because your going around trying to get in a cheap feel on some one you train doesn't make you an athlete either.Also I did mention Floyd Mayweather read son you might actually learn something. You don't have anything you can defend period you go around getting cheap thrills pretending like your a personal trainer. When the UFC and any form of MMA develops a much better product than they have now or even compares to what the Japanese has displayed then I will give the sport more credit. Yeah there are fighters as good as any athlete out there don't get me wrong I never said there wasn't. I agree with snoopy kind of until both sports best fighter get together than you never know. Snoopy_79 the 5, 5 minutes rounds are not all fighting I'm sure the first two rounds are feeling out rounds as well. At least you make more sense than Leprechaunking. Here is the thing what happens when Anderson Silva and Randy Couture stand toe to toe with Lennox Lewis or Vladimer Klitchko or Roy Jones or Floyd Mayweather, they get knocked out. Your fighters have to either land a kick or tackle the boxer in order to get them to the ground and make them submit. The handspeed and the foot movement will be to much. There is no way a MMA fighter can stand up and fight one of these guys with out kicking. For every kick they miss they get hit in the head at least 3 to 5 times. The MMA guys have to take a boxer down or pray that they get a kick in. Also just because a boxer is on the ground doesn't mean he won't still be throwing punches.I hope your sport you love does build a legacy but until it does It is still second best. I must admit there is one fighter that I do appreciate and really like to watch him in the steel cage and that is Cung Lee now he kicks butt. If the MMA had fighters like him on all the time then I would become a quick fan of the sport.But until then don't bash a sport that you don't watch either. I will defend boxing as much as you guys defend MMA. Like I said before if you want to experince how hard boxers train I welcome you to come and and train for a day with us. I think then you will appreciate what our sport has offered for centuries. I just want you two guys to come and witness what it takes to become a boxer. Then this whole argument will be put to rest. Snoopy_79 I also wrestled as well and I know how hard it is but by far the hardest workout I have ever done is boxing. Hey did either one of you go to the fight at Coyote's ?

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