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KU finishes seventh in final AP poll

January 8, 2008

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Kansas University's football team finished ranked No. 7 in both the Associated Press and the USA Today coaches poll.

The Jayhawks entered bowl season ranked eighth. After beating Virginia Tech, 24-21, in the Orange Bowl, Kansas passed Oklahoma and VT in the polls, but dropped behind West Virginia.

The 2007 team ties the 1968 team as earning the highest-ever final ranking at Kansas. The 1995 team finished 10-2 and was ranked No. 9 in the AP poll at season's end.

The SEC - heralded by many as college football's top league - held the final two slots in the final AP poll. LSU, who smacked Ohio State 38-24 in Monday's BCS Championship game, is the obvious number one, followed by Georgia. The Bulldogs picked apart Hawaii 41-10 in the Sugar Bowl last Tuesday. After starting the season 4-2, Georgia finished 11-2, defeating four ranked opponents during its seven-game win streak to close out the year.

Southern Cal, after defeating Illinois on New Year's Day 49-17 in the Rose Bowl, finished ranked third. The Trojans were followed by Missouri. The Tigers, who many thought were the biggest BCS snub, ousted Arkansas 38-7 in the Cotton Bowl on Jan. 1. The Tigers also dealt KU its lone defeat of the season - 36-28 on Nov. 24 in Arrowhead Stadium.

For more on this story, read tomorrow's Journal-World and log back onto KUSports.com.

Comments

Lindsey Buscher 7 years, 6 months ago

Hm. We'll see aboot the BCS...if they are true to their own, then the final BCS will be: 1. LSU 2. USC 3. Georgia 4. WVU 5. KU 6. OSU 7. Fizzou

stuckinthemiddle 7 years, 6 months ago

Puggy That's the order I expected... with the possible exception of Georgia and WVU switched...

rgreene 7 years, 6 months ago

Puggy Mizzou BEAT KU and had a tougher schedule...why does everyone forget that?

Lindsey Buscher 7 years, 6 months ago

rgreene, We BEAT a team with a tougher schedule than mizzou...VaTech was 7-2 against bowl teams during the regular season this year and beat BC to win the ACC title...why do you forget that fizzou lost to the same BCS team (who got crushed) twice?

penguin 7 years, 6 months ago

Georgia also did not make it to the conference title game in their league. I don't see anyone trying to say they do not deserve the number 2 spot.

Truth be told, there really is no good formula for college football. Unfortunately, there are no playoffs and it is left up to writers and coaches to vote (for the most part).

So that being said...KU does deserve to finish higher than Mizzou. Because as we learned from the BCS selection process people like KU more...right? Also that they got into a game they were going to lose....right?.....oh yeah that's right they won that game. enough with the Mizzou crying for a while please.

Lindsey Buscher 7 years, 6 months ago

KU was 3-1 against Bowl teams and Fizzou was 4-2.

I think the final rankings come down to "style points"...had we not been penalized and turned it over when it was first and goal at the one, and had we pounded it in at the end, the final score would have been 38-21, which probably would have given us a higher ranking.

fundamental 7 years, 6 months ago

Just as an FYI, we've already seen the final BCS Rankings. They were released after the Conference Championship Saturday. The BCS is only used to determine the two teams for the "National Championship Game." There will not be any more BCS Rankings this year. We're stuck at 7, for better or worse.

As an aside, I have no problem with Mizzou being ahead of KU in the final polls. We had a tougher bowl game, but also won less convincingly. Oh, and we lost to Mizzou on a neutral field. However, I'm not sure of the logic behind ranking Ohio State ahead of KU. Their best win was at Michigan, who lost to Appalachian State, and OSU lost at home to an Illinois team that was exposed as not-so-good in the Rose Bowl. Couple that with OSU's "KU-soft" non-conference schedule, and I'm really not sure there's a convincing argument that OSU is a better team than KU. The only reason I can think of is that their school's name is The Ohio State University, and KU's is not. Ridiculous. Oh, and while I'm on that tangent, how in the world did KU drop from 5 to 8 in the BCS on a bye week during the Conference Championships and OSU jumps from 3 to 1? Once again, the name on the jersey. Fans should boycott college football until there's actually a reason to recognize the "national champion" as such. Not gonna happen, of course, but it's not right.

Drew Alan 7 years, 6 months ago

playoffs... blah blah blah playoffs. picking the 8, 12, or 16 teams for a playoff system would cause just as much controversy as the system now. people would complain about seeding, not getting in, how the teams are chosen, etc.

penguin 7 years, 6 months ago

I am ok with the #7 ranking as long as the BCS agrees to ban Ohio State from the National Championship game next year. Can that please be made a rule. The Big Ten was overrated this year...more than ever which is saying a lot. Watching both Illinois and Ohio State in their bowl games was like watching a slow speed collision....you knew it would be bad, but it seemed to take forever to happen.

StirrrThePot 7 years, 6 months ago

Rankings are meaningless, folks. I don't understand why people get so worked up about them. The Coaches don't even pay attention and have their grad assistants turn in the ballots. The media is biased towards their own conferences. Then HAL has something as well and we know he hates humans.

Quick: who was ranked #7 at the end of last season? Without looking: yep, no one remembers.

Just be happy with the great season.


Cheers to that, Bob. KU has nothing more to prove. 12-1, Orange Bowl Champs says it all.

Rock Chalk Jayhawk!!!

stuckinthemiddle 7 years, 6 months ago

Here's the AP Top Ten... with four Big 12 teams... which is impressive... twice as many as the SEC... and 4 times as many as any other conference...

  1. LSU (60) 12-2 1,620
  2. Georgia (3) 11-2 1,515
  3. USC (1) 11-2 1,500
  4. Missouri 12-2 1,347
  5. Ohio State 11-2 1,346
  6. West Virginia 11-2 1,342
  7. Kansas (1) 12-1 1,303
  8. Oklahoma 11-3 1,139
  9. Virginia Tech 11-3 1,096
  10. Texas 10-3 962

del888 7 years, 6 months ago

there won't be another BCS poll. The games are over.

oldvet 7 years, 6 months ago

"Mizzou BEAT KU and had a tougher schedule:why does everyone forget that?"

Let's look at that "tough schedule"....

Both won @ K-State Both won @ Colorado Both won H Nebraska Both won H Iowa State Both beat Tx-A&M, but KU @ A&M, Mu Home

KU beat MAC champ Central Mich (8-6, who lost their bowl game on last minute FG), MU beat Illinois (9-4, destroyed in their bowl game)

KU beat Toledo (5-7, MAC conf), MU beat Western Michigan (5-7, MAC conference)

KU beat SE Louisiana (3-8 patsy), MU beat Mississippi (3-9 and 0-8 in the SEC for last place, no powerhouse there...)

KU beat Fla Intl (1-11, a patsy), MU beat Illinois State (4-7, also a patsy)

KU beat Baylor at Home and Ok-State on the road

MU beat Tx-Tech at Home and LOST to OU on the road

MU beat Kansas by 8 at a neutral site

MU lost a second time to OU by 21 at a neutral site

KU beats BCS #3 Va Tech in the Orange Bowl

MU beats BCS unranked Arkansas in the Cotton Bowl

Please tell me again how MU has such a "tougher schedule"...

craigers 7 years, 6 months ago

stuckinthemiddle, the Big XII is a weak conference!!! haha, that's what they will always think unfortunately.

staff04 7 years, 6 months ago

Does anybody remember a guy a few years ago that worked it out to determine that if teams were ranked based on "who beat who," then some NAIA Div. II team or JuCo team had a claim to the national title?

If you have a link to that, please share...I tried googling it, but can't seem to get the right combination.

pimp11 7 years, 6 months ago

OLD VET---- Well put!!!! Maybe some will realize the truth!!

Rock Chalk!

stuckinthemiddle 7 years, 6 months ago

here's a little something... how each top ten team did against other top ten teams... 1. LSU 3-0 (beat Georgia, Virginia Tech and Ohio State lost to none) 2. Georgia 0-1 (beat none lost to LSU) 3. USC 0-0 (played none) 4. Missouri 1-2 (beat Kansas lost to Oklahoma twice) 5. Ohio State 0-1 (beat none lost to LSU) 6. West Virginia 1-0 (beat Oklahoma lost to none) 7. Kansas 1-1 (beat Virginia Tech lost Missouri) 8. Oklahoma 3-1 (beat Missouri twice and beat Texas lost to West Virginia) 9. Virginia Tech (beat none lost to LSU and Kansas) 10. Texas 0-1 (beat none lost to Oklahoma)

LSU does have 3 wins but it's against 3 teams that didn't beat anyone else the top ten...

USC did not play any team that finished in the top ten...

Oklahoma has 3 wins but 2 are against Missouri:

No conclusions made here... just some interesting considerations of match-ups...

MUKUOUFan 7 years, 6 months ago

Wow, based on the past posting the last several weeks here, it seemed as if everyone was accusing MU of being the whiners.....looking at the posts today, looks like it's a shared trait!

The AP Poll ranks four Big 12 teams in the Top Ten-including (4) Missouri, (7) Kansas, (8) Oklahoma, and (10) Texas.

My thoughts...Congrats to the BIG 12...MU, KU, OU and Texas for a fine year.

oldvet 7 years, 6 months ago

"Does anybody remember a guy a few years ago that worked it out to determine that if teams were ranked based on "who beat who," then some NAIA Div. II team or JuCo team had a claim to the national title?"

Those are always fun... you don't have to go far, though, to remember that:

LSU lost to Arkansas by 2... who lost to Missouri by 31... who lost to Oklahoma by 21... who lost to West Virginia by 20... who lost to So. Florida by 8... who lost to Oregon by 35... who lost to UCLA by 16... who lost to Notre Dame by 14... who lost to Michigan by 38... who lost to Appalachian State by 2...

Making the Appalachain State Mountaineers a 187 point favorite in their pending game against LSU...

unfortunately, Appalachian State lost to Wofford by 11... who lost to Elon (the mighty Phoenix) by 11... who lost to The Citadel by 11...

but enough, already...

ilikestuff 7 years, 6 months ago

Thank you, OldVet,

I like the 16 team play-off a lot, Georgia's school president is asking the NCAA to look into an 8 game play-off, Perhaps it can start there and expand if successful. My guess is it would be wildly successful.

nobody1793 7 years, 6 months ago

I hope that everyone in the Fieldhouse wears an orange shirt for the KU-MU game!

I also wonder if David Lawrence was the one AP vote for KU at #1...

staff04 7 years, 6 months ago

TOB, I understand that...I just thought it was fun and interesting how far down the scale the guy who tracked it went. I don't remember completely, but I DO think he got to some ridiculously low level of college play.

AND, very nice oldvet!

martyks 7 years, 6 months ago

Sure it would cause controversy to choose the top 16 teams, but seriously now... how often will the 16th team win it all? There would be no controversy over who deserved to be the National Champs. You win 4 games in a row against that competition, you are the Champ. You don't get in? Did you really believe you had a great chance to win it all? Seriously? Give me a break. It isn't basketball. Re-seed it after every round and you will have a champion.

MUKUOUFan 7 years, 6 months ago

Even with the AP and USAToday polls in unanimous agreement on the TOP 5 teams (LSU, Georgia, USC, Missouri, Ohio State), I agree with martyks, have a 16-team playoff series, and if you're #1 after that, there is no doubt.

stuckinthemiddle 7 years, 6 months ago

and... well... this is a pointless questions, I suppose... but if the BCS is only intended to pick the best two teams and have a championship game and produce a "champion"... why are they involved in three other bowl games?

stuckinthemiddle 7 years, 6 months ago

The Bob... yeah, I understand the money thing... Like I said... a pointless question...

MUKUOUFan 7 years, 6 months ago

Interesting info from Bob, I didn't realize that....I think they could make just as much money, if not more, with a playoff series as martyks recommended. Either way, the Big 12 has 4 of the final TOP 10, quite an accomplishment compared to the other conferences.

simplykristib 7 years, 6 months ago

I am so over the rankings thing now... I am sooo happy about our 12-1 season and 2008 Orange Bowl win! :) Makes me proud to be a Jayhawk :)

Kristi

Mylantahawk 7 years, 6 months ago

Until I read OldVet's comparison of Mizzou and Kansas' schedules I was fine with the Tigers being ranked fourth, ahead of the Jayhawks. I think Oldvet did an excellent job comparing the games. Kansas looks much better in this analysis and I agree with the comments!

No matter what, Kansas had a great season and the season looks bright for next year! Rock Chalk Jayhawk!

Linda Aikins 7 years, 6 months ago

I heard that the one vote for us to be #1 was from the Miami Herald sportswriter.

Fred Whitehead Jr. 7 years, 6 months ago

BCS=Bowl Championship Scam.

BCS with its DLP mirrors and Tostitos "angel", is a Fox "Sports" cash cow. Everything about this scam is to get money for Fox sports, about the lousiest sports network of all time, even worse than ABC. They are only like Lew Perkins, out to make a buck, and fairness, sportsmanship, tradition and viewer interest are of little concern, only the buck. If KU had not had to play in the Lew Perkins Bowl in the KC Chiefs NFL venue, they might have had a chance to beat Missouri, OU beat them twice. KU would be, hands down, #1. And this coming from a life-long OU fan.

Face it folks, college football has been hijacked by the greedy, money grubbing networks, college treasure chest hunters, some of the worst most disgusting advertising talent I have ever seen. I still do not get the Tostitos "angel" gag. What used to be a great entertainment has been deluged with endless commercial time for advertisers and Fox network plugs for their lame programming. The Ohio State band is one of the best in the land with many good routines they work hard to perfect. We gat about 3 minutes of them mixed in with all the commercial crap.

But this is America today, hucksterism on steroids, greedy manipulation of an athletic contest to screw the viewers with piles of commercial crap, and soak the fans for lots of dollars for very little product. It distresses me to no end. And no advertiser supporting this farce can expect my business.

Sparko 7 years, 6 months ago

Just think if local reporters and voters supported Kansas. Kansas' position, and I think corresponds with some tepid support from this paper and others. It is a shame, because Kansas rolled this year. The talk about the soft schedule was stupid. Kansas was the only one of these "top" seven schools to not lose to a soft team, or get blown out twice like Missouri.

Linda Aikins 7 years, 6 months ago

"Most of the posts here are disputing whether KU or MU was the better team, and in their head-to-head single game matchup, that should have already been settled."

SHOULD being the key word there.....

Do you think if there was an 8-team playoff, KU would have been chosen? MU? You gotta wonder.

Did you know the Missouri Highway Patrol told the Kansas Highway Patrol to "go to he$$" when the KHP called to tell them our bus was a few miles from the state line and it was their turn to escort us from the state line to Arrowhead? That is why our boys showed up at the last minute and didn't have time for their pregame tapings, rituals, speeches, etc. Way to be classy AGAIN, Missouri.

Game in Memorial Stadium? No question...

more_cowbell 7 years, 6 months ago

oldvet's comparisons actually make a point...

...but not the one he wants.

Central Michigan and Illinois are not in the same class.

Central Michigan is a MAC team ("mid-major" and played a barely-bowl-eligible Purdue team... which is why Purdue was playing Cent. Mich. in the first place, they were barely eligible).

Illinois is a "Big 11" team (until further notice ;-) still a "BCS" or "major" conference), played a much tougher schedule, and played a much tougher bowl opponent, USC, with something to prove (namely, that they deserved a shot at the title). The mismatch and blowout wasn't inevitable, but then again, neither was an undefeated season for Ohio State (whom Illinois managed to beat, in Columbus).

SE Louisiana and Mississippi are not in the same class. Literally. SE Louisiana is a FCS (IAA) school http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaaf/teams/sse in the Southland Conference with perennial powerhouses such as Texas State. No, not the Texas State from "Necessary Roughness", the Fightin' Armadillos: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0102517/ , but the former Southwest Texas State University, http://www.txstate.edu/about/index.html , known as the Bobcats.

Mangino is doing what Snyder did at K-State in the 90s (when Mangino was one of Snyder's assistants): schedule cupcakes for non-conference games. That's schedule padding. At least schedule two clear "major" conference teams, as Missouri did, and then the Jayhawks deserve to be talked about as level with Missouri. As it is, Missouri won head-to-head, and its only regular-season loss was against Oklahoma, a team Kansas did not have to play.

If KU had won in the Border War ;-) at Arrowhead it would have played Oklahoma, and thus could at least aspire to clearly being better than Missouri this year. As it is, being ranked lower than the Tigers is not only understandable, but obvious.

And Gootsie, there should be an eight-team playoff, but if that were to happen, it would most likely include the six "major" conference champions, the highest-ranked "mid-major" conference champion, and the highest-ranked "at-large" team. In this case, that would have meant:

Virginia Tech (ACC champ), West Virginia (Big East champ), Ohio State (Big "Eleven" champ), Oklahoma (Big Twelve champ), USC (Pac 10 champ), LSU (SEC champ), Hawaii (highest-ranked "mid-major" champ), and...

Georgia. ;-) (#5 in the final BCS ranking before the postseason)

more_cowbell 7 years, 6 months ago

P.S. Note that in this hypothetical eight-team playoff, that all eight of those teams were in BCS bowls, if you count the "non-title" Sugar Bowl. The two teams (of ten from the five BCS bowls) that are missing from that eight-team bracket are Kansas (#8 BCS ranking before the bowls) and Illinois (#13). Missouri (#6) would still be left out of the playoff picture, but at least more logically (losing the at-large to Georgia, not Kansas) than was the case with the "Bowl Committee Pick-'em" method.

daddax98 7 years, 6 months ago

using the BCS rankings to pick your 8 team field is just plain stupid

daddax98 7 years, 6 months ago

I take that back..."Spectacularly" stupid would be more appropriate

Quantrill_Rides_Again 7 years, 6 months ago

Old Vet. KU played the worst team in D-1 This year and beat a D-II school. You can try to talk down the Illinois win all you want but Illinois beat Penn St. who beat KU's toughest opponent handily in their bowl game and also beat Ohio St. The people who rank schedules put MU between 7th-25th toughest schedules and I've seen KU fall anywhere in the 50's and 60's. But I guess everyone else is insane and you're the smart one. Get a life loser! hahaha!

more_cowbell 7 years, 5 months ago

thanks Dirty Linen, that's one of the key points to make sure the BCS or "major" conferences are willing to take the step to have a playoff in the first place: that their champions have automatic berths. How they determine those is up to them, of course...

...and with an eight-team field, there is still room for two at-large teams (those are the two that would be determined by BCS ranking, the other six are not) which allows the best mid-major conference champion (or Notre Dame) to make it, provided it has a high enough BCS ranking... if not, then there would be one spot, and sometimes two, available for the highest ranked non-conference champions.

Depending on the criteria, this year Georgia would have been in, and (if the rules for mid-major champions were the same) Hawaii would also have been in.

Neither KU nor Missouri would have made the cut in such a playoff format. If the BCS rules for mid-majors were tightened (such as requiring they finish within the top 8, the requirement for Notre Dame), then Hawaii wouldn't have met the criteria, and Missouri would have been in as the second at-large team. Kansas is still left out--of the playoff. There are still over two dozen bowls to play in, though, and the Jayhawks would have still been in a good one... say, the Cotton Bowl ;-)

The resulting matchups in the quarterfinals would likely have turned out:

Rose Bowl: USC (Pac-10) vs. Ohio State (Big "11") Sugar Bowl: LSU (SEC) vs. Georgia (at-large) Orange Bowl: Virginia Tech (ACC) vs. Missouri (at-large) Fiesta Bowl: Oklahoma (Big 12) vs. West Virginia (Big East)

This guarantees that the BCS bowls retain their importance, that the Big "11" and Pac 10 retain their traditional association with the Rose Bowl, and that the final BCS rankings still have some say over the playoff teams--but only over the two at-large teams, not the two teams in the title game!

The "Football Final Four" would be at a different site, ideally one that hadn't already hosted a bowl, and most likely a dome... and it would change every year, the way the basketball Final Four does. If the BCS wants to slap its name on that site, and get sponsorship (and it WILL), that's fine... that's happening already with one bowl getting to "double-host", with the second game being the "Allst*** BCS National Championship Game".

The four teams in the semifinals all get to enjoy the "atmosphere" at that Final Four site (again, which will be part of the BCS, but NOT one of the existing four BCS bowls), and the semifinal winners do not travel to another site for the final.

It's not a perfect arrangement by any means. But it's a pragmatic way of combining the existing institutions (bowls and conferences) with a workable playoff format.

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