Archive for Saturday, January 5, 2008

GOP goes on offensive against illegal immigration

January 5, 2008

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— The Kansas Republican Party on Friday opened a wide-ranging attack on illegal immigration with a proposed bill that includes repeal of in-state tuition for some undocumented students.

"National security begins at home, and this legislation will protect Kansas against the foreign invasion that undermines our national security and drains the resources of legal aliens and U.S. citizens," said state Sen. Peggy Palmer, R-Augusta.

Palmer said she will introduce a bill in the legislative session, which starts Jan. 14, that she said would prohibit illegal immigrants from getting jobs and public benefits.

The bill was drafted with assistance from Kansas Republican Party Chairman Kris Kobach, who is also a law professor and attorney involved in lawsuits across the country in trying to restrict illegal immigration. News about Palmer's legislation was sent out by the Kansas GOP.

Kobach said the bill will include repeal of a 2004 Kansas law that allows the children of some illegal immigrants to pay the same lower tuition rates as legal Kansans at state universities, community colleges and vocational schools. Under the law, the student must have lived in Kansas at least three years, graduated from a Kansas high school, and seek or promise to seek legal status.

In Kansas, 243 students are receiving the in-state tuition under the law, according to the Kansas Board of Regents. Most of those - 193 - are attending community colleges; 46 are at state universities, including 11 at Kansas University; three are at technical schools, and one is at a technical college.

Jonathan Blazer, an attorney with the National Immigration Law Center, said he hoped Kansas would keep in place the in-state tuition law, which has been defended by Gov. Kathleen Sebelius, a Democrat, in previous attempts to repeal it.

"Gov. Sebelius has successfully made the case that Kansas should invest in its young people," Blazer said.

The law was approved with votes from Democrats and Republicans in the Kansas Legislature. But Kobach said many Republicans who supported the bill in 2004 "didn't realize what they were voting for."

And times have changed, Kobach said. The Legislature should repeal the law and enact new restrictions on illegal immigrants, in part, because neighboring states are cracking down on illegal immigration, he said.

"Kansas is in danger of becoming a sanctuary state in the Midwest," he said.

But Blazer said the Palmer-Kobach bill wouldn't work, that it was based on myths about undocumented workers, and seemed to be aimed more at scoring political points than fixing the problem.

"These things are a laundry list of bad ideas," Blazer said.

For instance, Blazer said, Palmer cites figures by the Federation for American Immigration Reform to estimate that illegal immigrants use services that add up to a $235 million tax burden on Kansans.

But Blazer said these kinds of costs don't take into account that undocumented workers pay taxes and are ineligible to receive public services, such as Medicaid. The children of illegal immigrants are allowed to attend public schools because of rulings by the U.S. Supreme Court. Kobach said nothing in the bill would challenge that situation.

One of the measures in the proposed bill would require employers to register and use the federal government's E-Verify system to identify whether potential employees are in the country legally.

But Blazer said the E-Verify system has been plagued by problems caused by flaws in the database. Kobach contended the system is accurate.

Blazer said Kansas in the past has shown a more reasonable approach to immigration, and he hoped that would continue.

He said his organization supports federal legislation that would create a way for undocumented workers who have been in the United States for years to apply for citizenship.

Comments

dirkleisure 7 years, 2 months ago

Apparently, Kobach wasn't asked the question:

How much of the $235 million tax burden on Kansans would be reduced by his bill?

This is a desperate attempt by Kobach to bypass the federal courts. He obviously has no chance in his FAIR funded lawsuit, so he is pressing his unconstitutional arguments before the Legislature.

ASBESTOS 7 years, 2 months ago

"How much of the $235 million tax burden on Kansans would be reduced by his bill?"

All of it and there will be additional savings. Remember that is only for medical, and the state provided services. Ilelgal aliens already cannot legally receive most of the federally provided services, othe by previous immigraion law and recently passed immigration law, by DEMOCRATIC MAJORITY! Remember that there is 70,000 to 90,000 illegal aliens in Kansas and if you do not pass a law, all the illegal aliens from other states that ARE passing these laws are going to come here and kKansas is goig to be up to its eyeballs in illegal aliens.

Iowa spends $241,000,000 on 55,000 illegal aliens and is stopping it.

LA County California is spending $1,000,00,000 on 900,000 illegal aliens. The Cali. GOP sent around a brochure on the state and federal funding for ilelgal aliens in California, and it is ASTOUNDING. IT appears as if California (Mexifornia) is starting to turn against the illegal aliens movement as well, except of course LA County.

Remember that there is 70,000 to 90,000 illegal aliens in Kansas and if you do not pass a law, all the illegal aliens from other states that ARE passing these laws are going to come here and Kansas is goig to be up to its eyeballs in illegal aliens. At what population will you start seeing Kansas Citizens pushed out of the way by illegal aliens? I think you get about 20,000- 30,000 more EVERYONE in the state will be tired of the illegal aliens masses.

With the recession slated to be in FULL SWING during the next electin cycle, illegal aliens are DONE in these United States. ANY candidate that supports illegal aliens in a dounturn economy and removes support from legal citizens will parish politically.

WE still have to verify that illegal aliens with Kansas DL are not voting. How is that done?

dirkleisure 7 years, 2 months ago

Don't ask me, Marion. Ask the judicial branch of our federal government. They are the ones who have consistently upheld the Kansas law and rejected Kobach's arguments.

dirkleisure 7 years, 2 months ago

ASBESTOS, your argument doesn't jive with Kobach's comments.

Is your argument that this bill is going to rid Kansas of 100% of its non-citizen residents? They are all going to move out?

With your rose-colored glasses, is the sky lavender?

toefungus 7 years, 2 months ago

Republicans deserve to be kicked out of office the way they have failed the nation on immigration, spending, and the war. Either lead, follow, or get out of the way.

mick 7 years, 2 months ago

Why do the Democrats think they should be on the side of the illegal immigrants? It is their constituency which is hurt the most by illegal immigration. I no longer consider myself a Democrat because of this issue. The party stands for something completely different than it once did.

getreal 7 years, 2 months ago

Let's talk about how many cases Krissy has already lost trying to stop kids from going to college. I think with the latest loss in December we're at four, maybe five now.

Kobach couldn't win a congressional seat, he can't win a case, so he's trying to make a name for himself by writing hate legislation.

His hero Phyllis Schlafly would be proud.

Shelley Bock 7 years, 2 months ago

Undocumented people voting? Give me a break! Those who come here are looking for jobs, not the ballot box. They're here to work, not vote. They wouldn't jeopardize their income to make any political statement.

More than anything else, illegals are economic slaves. They do the jobs that those born here refuse to do. Illegals work in the fast food business, construction, dairy, food production industry and other low paying jobs. Industry needs their presence to keep costs down. The worker becomes tied to the job because their vulnerability is known and they can't relocate, change jobs or protest their poor pay.

Who benefits from that? You do. Want to pay $4.00 for a Big Mac? How about $5.00 for a gallon of milk? Or 25% more for a construction job? If they weren't present, our economy would be more racked by recession. Business would either have to close or start paying their workers and charging more for their products. I am extremely happy that Kolbach is solidly in favor of a "living wage" for all Kansans.

Let's get real. The real issue is not "illegal aliens", but "illegal aliens from Spanish speaking countries". The issue hasn't been addressed for years by the Federal government, so states are now going to be swayed by local prejudices. That will create a patchwork of laws that are ineffective and dangerous.

I have known Americans who speak only Spanish for whom I would swear are Mexican. They just grew up in Mexican communitieis of Texas and weren't provided an adequate education. (Unusual? Hey, my Dad spoke German until he went to school and he was a 2nd generation US citizen.)They're going to be stopped, questioned, arrested and subjected to local prosecution just because of their language and appearance.

And, I've known "illegal aliens" who were infants when they came to the US, who don't speak Spanish, who haven't ever been to Mexico and who are culturally and socially Americans. Are they still illegal?

Kolbach is a snake in the grass. He can't make it wilth the legal argument so he's trying an end run on the issue. Or, maybe, "Living Wage Bill" is more than just a single issue guy.

Uhlrick_Hetfield_III 7 years, 2 months ago

Both parties have failed to come up with a rational solution to the problem, and there may not be a rational solution to the problem. Indeed embracing the status quo may ultimately be the solution. As far as illegals paying taxes, that's baloney. Illegals primarily work for cash and pay no taxes except sales taxes and property taxes on their vehicles. In that sense, conservatives should love illegals, sine they've basically implemented, defacto, the fairtax.

coneflower 7 years, 2 months ago

The Republicans are disingenuous.

Big business depends on illegal labor. Laws exist against hiring illegal workers. Enforce them, and the problem is solved.

Uhlrick_Hetfield_III 7 years, 2 months ago

Kobach may find a rebellion within his own ranks. coneflower is absolutely correct. There's a reason Brownback told his conservative followers to shove it and voted for (and against) illegal immigration and that's the money from big business that put him in office.

Shelley Bock 7 years, 2 months ago

posessionannex says "OK, so why are we investing in, for example, Mexico's young people?"

Wrong. These are students who have lived here, graduated from Kansas high schools and have a desire to become citizens. Returning to Mexico is far from their desires. Maybe, they could return to Mexico when American industry has exported all jobs there?

coneflower 7 years, 2 months ago

Required reading for anyone who wants to weigh in on this subject (in my humble opinion):

Fast Food Nation http://www.amazon.com/Fast-Food-Nation-Dark-All-American/dp/0060938455

Reefer Madness http://www.amazon.com/Reefer-Madness-Drugs-American-Market/dp/0618334661

On another subject: Question: Why are we outsourcing all the labor to China and India, when we could be enriching Mexico with the same jobs? Answer: Big Business wants Mexico to stay poor, so illegal immigrants will keep coming here to be exploited in their slaughterhouses and factories. Just my humble opinion.

blackwalnut 7 years, 2 months ago

Uhlrick_Hetfield_III (Anonymous) says: Both parties have failed to come up with a rational solution to the problem, and there may not be a rational solution to the problem.

Wrong. The solution is so simple a child could figure it out. Enforce the existing laws that forbid employers from hiring illegal workers. Put a few CEOs in prison for breaking the labor laws and fine a few small business owners an amount that is actually more than they saved by hiring illegals, and see how long it takes for them to stop hiring illegal workers. If there are no jobs for them here, people will not immigrate here.

blackwalnut 7 years, 2 months ago

Reality_Check says "Repugnicans propose cracking down on giving illegals education and health care or any other sort of compassion:"

Republicans want illegal immigrants to come here to work for slave wages in horrible working conditions, with no opportunity to get health care the way legal workers can. A huge nonvoting work force with no legal rights is what they want.

Then they set up illegal immigrants as a straw man to blame all our economic problems on - the economic problems caused by their corporations outsourcing work to other countries.

The last thing Republicans want is to "solve" illegal immigration. It would destroy their whole business model, and they'd have to find another straw man to blame their failures on.

blackwalnut 7 years, 2 months ago

possessionannex: Manufacturing jobs do not require that a worker speak English. Manufacturing is all outsourced now, and not mainly to Mexico.

ASBESTOS 7 years, 2 months ago

The Mexican Consulate actually is taking legal actin against Arizona.

This is where this debate lies folks.

Does a foriegn power have authority or jurisdiction in the United States? Is the Country of Mexico responsible for the medical and other aid that has been provided by the United States Taxpayer?

Those of you PRo Ilelgal Immitration folks need to answer that question.

Is the US Taxpayer supposed to be paying for illelgal entrants form other countries that come here, or should their "country of origin" pay?

This ISSUE is going to have to be addressed LONG before we have any discussion of "government provided health insurance or health care".

IF we pass that bill before securing the border, we will be up to our eyeballs in illegal aliens from EVERYWHERE, and Citizens of this country will be totally disenfranchised.

We are already with the illegal aliens voting using DLs that they should not have. For those of you that think this "voting is not going on" how do you know? All it takes to vote in Kansas is a DL, and if an illelgal has one, they can vote.

That is what upset all the New Yorkers in BOTH PARTIES to that stupid Gov. Spitzer giving illegal aiens a DL. The maid concern was voter fraud.

You illegal alien supporters need to open your flippin' eyes to what is going on. TO remain steadfastly insupport of unlimited immigration and amnesty with no porposal to stop illegal entry or securing the bordre, it will grow exponentially.

ASBESTOS 7 years, 2 months ago

A want ad from the LJWOrld:

"Bilingual Tax Preparer- Interpreters Join our family of tax preparers and help others to file and get tax refunds. Liberty Tax Service of Lawrence and Lansing"

There are lost of illegals from MExico that do play the tax game, but they claim (legally so) as many unverified "dependents" living in Mexico, and the IRS NEVER will check. That is how they are "legal in filing" and "illegally and fradulently" not paying taxes. They claim the maximum number of dependents, and the US actually will REFUND more money than PAID IN>

Some of you illegal alien supporters need to wake up, and see the scam.

They are costing taxpayers MILLIONS and taking lots of money away from United States problem solutions that are needed.

Dorothy Hoyt-Reed 7 years, 2 months ago

There are only a few students who benefit from the instate tuition program. They are illegal only because their parents came here and brought them along. How did they have a choice? They also have to commit to becoming legal citizens. They will have to take a test to become a citizen that half the people on this forum couldn't pass. These students are not terrorists. If it was easier for these people to come to the US legally, then there wouldn't be a problem. Then those who are illegal would be terrorists or drug dealers. We have forced ordinary people trying to better their lives into the same group as terrorists and drug dealers. You have no clue how difficult it is to legally immigrate to the US.

fletch 7 years, 2 months ago

I just laugh at the people who want to repeal the in-state tuition law. I've met one of the people going to K-State under that program. He was brought to the US when he was 2 years old. He didn't get a vote in the matter, nor could he do anything about it. Since then, he's lived in Kansas his whole life. He's worked since he was 16, but he can't find anything more than restaurant work, because most decent paying jobs won't hire illegal immigrants. He had applied for citizenship when he was 15, but it requires parental involvement if you're a minor, and his parents both have limited English skills, so that process stalled out. The day he turned 18, he re-applied as an adult applicant. It's been 3 years, and the process is still going. In the meantime, he's going to K-State and getting a degree in Biology. He couldn't have afforded college otherwise because of his limited employment opportunities and inability to secure student loans.

He never did anything to anybody, and yet he's the "enemy" to half you people. He's exaclty the type of person you think you'd want to immigrate to this country (English speaking, hard working, responsible, educated), yet half of you want to deport him.

You've got screwed up priorities people.

ASBESTOS 7 years, 2 months ago

"The day he turned 18, he re-applied as an adult applicant. It's been 3 years, and the process is still going."

It is going to take that long with any amnesty as well. SO there is NO WAY IN HELL an anmesty will work again. Take that 3 year wait and the 6 months it takes to apply and verify times 30 million illegal aliens and you see the problem.

For the above post, that is the price of illegal entry. The parents took the illegal route. We have citizen children that need health care FIRST, before we are doing anything for illegal aliens or their spawn or oppspring.

This problem needs to also bill MExico and the other countries that send their people here.

I want NO MORE flag waving of the Mexia flag.

I see that again, I am gonna go postal!

Bitterfalls 7 years, 2 months ago

Illegal immigration is the new gay marriage. Political parties needed a new issue to scare people with.

The number of illegals who are eligible or able to get the lower tuition are such a tiny small percentage of all illegals that these kinds of legislations are meaningless. Much ado about nothing.

Simply enforcing current laws and immigration policies would solve the problem that people are worried about.

I would like to see the W-2 and 1099 forms for these illegals that supposedly pay taxes.

ASBESTOS 7 years, 2 months ago

americorps posted:

"I was appauled that our legal system was such that it put poor Elian in such a position, and I think our laws should be changed. I did not, however, think Bill Clinton should have defied the laws of this land just because he, you or I did not agree with them."

But you have no problem with 20-30 millin illegal aliens defying our laws just becasue they disagree with them?

ASBESTOS 7 years, 2 months ago

IT is not the GOP only, there are significant old school Labor types in the D party that are revolting. The media does not give this much ink or electrons, but it is happening. Also, the african Americans are not too pleased with either the Democratic Party or their "Black Leaders" for their stances on illegal immigration that displaces and unemploys african Americans.

Just because it is not reported, does not mean it is not happening.

Remember that Hillary's "fall" started with her "no answer" dancing on the NY DL for illegal aliens that 80% of ALL New Yorkers which are mostly "D's"were in TOTAL opposition to it.

The Democratic party at large does not support illegal immigration or amnesty for illegal aliens wither. IT is just they are shouted down by the far left loons.

ASBESTOS 7 years, 2 months ago

":"The clause [the citizenship clause section 1] specifically excludes all persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, and persons who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the Government of the United States, but will include every other class of persons." (Emphasis added). It seems clear that the amendment only applies to American citizens (natural law), regardless of their race - which is exactly what was intended."

From the "Federalist Papers"

deansmith1010 7 years, 2 months ago

The solution to this problem is quite simple. Each liberal "sponsors" a nice "illegal immigrant" family. Then Paco, Lupe and their eight unvaccinated, illiterate, often sick children (Just look into any E.R.) will be the responsibility of the liberal. THEN liberals can tell us how much they care!

BigDog 7 years, 2 months ago

Costs for K-12 education, hospitals and prison system for illegal aliens in Kansas?

Does anyone know this amount?

Number of illegals in our prison system who had criminal records in the country they are from?

Bitterfalls 7 years, 2 months ago

Every Emergency Room should be equipped with an INS agent, and a bus.

They can show up for all of the emergency care they need, and then loaded onto the bus. I don't mind my tax dollars going to give them free things, like bus rides.

The new super highway can easily be used as a milk run of buses from each hospital back to Mexico.

On another thought. I don't think there is anything stopping them from opening up their own hospitals here and funding them on their own. They already have the cheapest labor to staff them.

Keith 7 years, 2 months ago

possionannex "So you were for the impeachment?"

I'm for the impeachment now, does that count?

Dorothy Hoyt-Reed 7 years, 2 months ago

Asbestos I want NO MORE flag waving of the Mexia flag. I see that again, I am gonna go postal!

I also see people with Irish flags, and Italian flags are popular. And I think there's a house in town that flies the British and American flags. But I suppose that's ok, because they are white Europeans. You can't stand people of color, can you? My ancestors came from the British Isles, and I'm proud of that heritage. I know for sure you are not full bloodied Indian, so I'm sure your ancestors were immigrants. Some of them probably didn't get permission to come here either. And some of them probably didn't speak English when they came. It's too bad that you don't honor them and the culture they were once a part of.

ASBESTOS 7 years, 2 months ago

Bigdog wrote:

"Costs for K-12 education, hospitals and prison system for illegal aliens in Kansas?

Does anyone know this amount?"

No, but the total amount for an illegal alien coming to Kansas is $243,000,000 divided by 70,000 illegal aliens which comes up to $3471 per illegal alien, with an illelgal alien family of 4 that would be $13,884, which is in addition to their $6-12 an hour jobs.

How wuold you like the state to give a Kansans family $13,884 a year, EVERY YEAR. I am absolutely sure that would be good for the economy too.

That is what a taxpayer of the United States and Kansas is paying to have the ilelgal alien here.

Not quite so funny when you do the math.

$13,884 a year to a Kansas family would mean one child in the family would have a year of college paid for.

Or it would mean that we could have medical insurance for our citizens?

When you start seeing the effects of illegal immigration in the way it effects every average citizen, it is not so funny,

nor is it any longer acceptable.

ASBESTOS 7 years, 2 months ago

B.O. wrote:

"Asbestos, please show facts and documentation for the alleged cost for illegals."

The "facts are that Kansas DOES spend $243,000,000 on illegal aliens, the article above states that the number is $235,000,000, which for the dollars is not significant.

The number of ilelgal aliens in the State of Kansas is in the range of 70,000 to 90,000 according to estimates FROM THE STATE OF KANSAS.

That is a lot of illegal aliens, and the point of the article AND the legislation is that surrounding states are passing tougher rules so illegal aliens cannot get benefits. The state of Colorado, MIssouri, and Oklahoma ALL passed legislation in various forms to combat illegal immigration from effecting their state.

IF Kansas snoozes on this one, the state will be eyeball deep in illegal aliens, because Kansas currently DOES NOT limit benefits and entitlements or Dl, illegal aliens can get them, mostly quicker than citizens.

I was asked from a wanker like you to produce the immigration laws. I looked them up and posted them, and their response was it was wrong, because they got their information from "mapsof the world.com", whereas I got mine from the CFR and USC United States law website.

So, "show me" don;t work here. If you cannot read an article, and wake up and smell the coffee, and understand that while we have been importing slaves for landscape work and housekeeping, the quality of the work has gone down.

Here is a link you need to see. Housekeepers and dirty hotel glasses.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=a7f_1194813218

Watch the very last, these people from the "third world" do not understand the concept of "hygiene.

Dorothy Hoyt-Reed 7 years, 2 months ago

This video has nothing to do with illegal immigration. This is poor management of hotels, there is no mention that any of the these maids are illegal immigrants. I grew up with many Mexican Americans, and their families had been in the United States for more generations than mine. Twisted logic.

Katara 7 years, 2 months ago

deansmith1010 (Anonymous) says:

The solution to this problem is quite simple. Each liberal "sponsors" a nice "illegal immigrant" family. Then Paco, Lupe and their eight unvaccinated, illiterate, often sick children (Just look into any E.R.) will be the responsibility of the liberal. THEN liberals can tell us how much they care! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I'd be amiable to that agreement so long as all the pro-life extremists adopt every child that was going to be aborted.

Shelley Bock 7 years, 2 months ago

Asbestos writes...

"Watch the very last, these people from the "third world" do not understand the concept of "hygiene."

Now we know that his argument is racists! Having lived in Central America for a number of years, I was always impressed with the cleanliness of each home. Even in poverty, families took great pride in maintenance of a clean enviroment. Young people were shocked that I only took a single (cold water) shower per day. They were obsessed with having no body odor and took multiple showers daily.

Go into a latino home here in Lawrence and you will find cleanliness. I have assisted local social workers with interpretation on 2 occassions when they went unannounced into homes where child abuse was suspected. I told them before entering that if there were going to be problems, the house would be unkept. Upon entering, everything was clean and tidy. And, there was no evidence of abuse! Contrast this to many local born families where clutter, odor and unsanitary conditions proliferate.

Sorry Asbestos, your arguments are racially motivated. Latinos, far more than Americans, consider hygiene significant. In Latin America, someone who doesn't maintain their personal or family hygiene is on the very extreme bottom of society.

Shelley Bock 7 years, 2 months ago

BigDog writes:

"Costs for K-12 education, hospitals and prison system for illegal aliens in Kansas?"

I don't know the actual figures, but I do have observations regarding Latinos and the court system.

Those who would be considered illegal, do not commit offenses in any greater number than the general population. Locally, if the offense would be considered as a "person" offense, as defined by Kansas law, the offense occurs within the latino community. Other than ordinary driving infractions, the major offense is driving while intoxicated. This is a serious offense, with potentially fatal consequences. They are punished the same as any one else in the community. They are not given any "breaks".

What is notable is that if the matter is a traffic offense, the Latino will often pay his / her fines in cash at the time of the court appearance. They want the matter resolved without any lingering effects. Americans often seek a payment plan and then never make payments. They drag the matter out and never pay until they are arrested for non-payment.

ASBESTOS 7 years, 2 months ago

"max1 (Anonymous) says:

Anti-immigration group seeks to double labor costs in meat packing plants"

Max, we are NOT "Anti--immigration" we are ANTI-ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION only. PEople need to come here legally and according to the law. If the "People of the United States" want to change the law, they will.

We tell you this over and over, and you still do not get it.

How thick is your skull?

And YES MAX you get it on the "Elecctoral votes", they are based on "census data" and the "congressional districts" are set on the basis of population. Since these states are becoming havens for illegal aliens, they will get more "congressional districts">

They will take them away from other states. LIke SD, ND and WY, all have ONE Congressman in the House. Senate requires 2 Senators from each state, but the Hose is based on "redistricting".

That would mean Kansas in in line to "lose" a congressional district to NY, CA, FL, and TX because they are sanctuary states and will have a larger population and therefore get more congressional districts as per the Constitution. The majority of thsoe states increase is ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS. A study from the FAIR aand GAO states that up to 25% of the southern state populatins may be illegal aliens.

That would mean that 25% of the rest of the states will have to have their congressional districts pulled becasue the census data includes illegal aliens.

Sorry KS, OK, NE, IA, MO you all are going to start losing congressional districts.

Legal AMerican Citizens are getting their "elected Reprsentation" displaced to illelgal aliens and non-citizens.

You illegal alien supporters get that yet? Your vote either IS or WILL BE disenfranchised in the future becasue of redistricting and illegals voting will state provided DL's.

ASBESTOS 7 years, 2 months ago

Hepburn (Anonymous) says:

"Now we know that his argument is racists! Having lived in Central America for a number of years, I was always impressed with the cleanliness of each home."

No it is NOT racist, that is how YOU interpert. YOUR response IS racist though becasue YOU interjected race, I did not. I said "Third world" which is where the illegals are coming from, not any particular race.

But YOU Hepburn, ARE a racist with your post. Are you stating that only the latino race keeps its house clean? Black , white, asian, are all slobs?

The "Race card" played in the ANTI ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION debate, is a sign that the pro illegal alien supporters have lost their particular arguemtn and have no more valid facts. Kind of like an ID/Creo proponent losing the evolution argument and then just saying it is evil or something.

Nice try.

BTW, MAX1, all of your posts support eliminating illegal immigration, unless of course your goal is to equalize the American wage to that of the world. I am sure that the rest of Kansas and Country will not mind the India and China aberage of 36 cents an hour for 70 hours a week, no benefits, and no time off.

THis is YOUR idea of "Globalism"?

Be Careful, if we go the "Global route" there will be no more worker protections, no more safety regs, and no more environmental tregs. Hell the majority of the countries raising hell about Global Climate Change do not have a Department of Labor, even asbestos regulation as they are PRODUCING ASBESTOS and using LEAD in production of FOod, Toys, and candy.

That your "Big Global Vision"?

ASBESTOS 7 years, 2 months ago

Hepburn wqrote:

"Other than ordinary driving infractions, the major offense is driving while intoxicated. This is a serious offense, with potentially fatal consequences. They are punished the same as any one else in the community. They are not given any "breaks"."

NO they are given "breaks", because we do not know who they are, they can just "melt away". Addditionally, you are not paying attention on the numbers, again. IN the United States we average 48,500 automotive accident deaths (CDC Mortality study 2004), of which about 26,000 are alcohol/drug related. The number of incarceration of illegal alien (NOT LATINO, you racist) in auto fatality is about 53% based on "pellet counts" of fatality accidents in NC, SC, Virginia, and MD.

IN California 75% of the Automotive accidents are those that do not have a DL, which is almost always an illegal alien.

Insurance rates are higher because the illegal alien is called an (uninusred driver accident) pushing almost ALL states (Including Kansas) to develop a database and verification system for the police and Highway patrol to see if the incurance is in force. According to the Insurance association the reason for higher premiums is the large number of "no pays" by uninsured drivers, which are almost entirely illegal aliens.

NO, I am not going to give your the sources. Do look and learn. Illegal immigratin displaces and penalizes AMERICNA CITIZENS.

In the coming recession, I am sure the anti Illegal alien movement will become huge, and ilelgal aliens will be purged form this country by a very angry MANORITY of American Citizens wanting to preserve this great country.

ASBESTOS 7 years, 2 months ago

Hepburn also wrote:

"What is notable is that if the matter is a traffic offense, the Latino will often pay his / her fines in cash at the time of the court appearance. They want the matter resolved without any lingering effects. Americans often seek a payment plan and then never make payments. They drag the matter out and never pay until they are arrested for non-payment."

Ah, I get it now, you do not like Americans, NO?

Funny how you know what a Latino and an American does, with your little place in Kansas. You do not seem very intelectually "open" or honest, and you seem to have quite a bias against Americans.

Shelley Bock 7 years, 2 months ago

Asbestos:

I do pay attention to the facts in Lawrence, Kansas, the site of this website. Quote all you want about California, because it has no meaning to things here. You have no idea what happens in Douglas County or any other part of Kansas. (referring to stats from NC, MD, SC, VA & CA). The majority of non-DL drivers are, without a doubt, American born. You haven't been around the courthouse to know anything. I don't need your sources, I have the experience to know.

Yes, Asbestos, illegal aliens drivers are often uninsured, although they try to get insurance. But, because they can't get DL's so they can't get insurance. So when they drive and have accidents, you and I get socked for the tab. If you really looked at the stats, you'd find out that it's your American neighbor who's had the driving while intoxicated conviction, who is still driving without a DL and insurance that is the principal individual contributing to uninsured costs, and not aliens.

Asbestos, you were the one who interjected the comment about "Third World" persons not having any knowledge of "hygiene". How many "Third World" nations are not nations of color? You can't hide the intent of your comment. It is clearly prejudical and racist.. You just don't like being called on it. Like anyone who espouses such stupidity, all others lack the merits of your insight.

What's funny about your criticism of my statements about how illegals pay off their court debts versus the tendencies of Americans was the topic of a conversation with a local prosecutor this past Friday. It was our agreement that was the tendency, based on our combined experience and observations. Illegals have cash which they can't put into the banks because they don't have identification. They pay in cash so they avoid coming back to court. Americans will often work out a payment plan which they forget or ignore. This is based on actual events and experiences. Your observations are simply based on your personal hysteria.

After arguing about the impact illegal aliens have on the economy, it is interesting how candidates Huckabee, McCain and Thompson have all said on national TV this morning that they agree that a massive expulsion of "illegal aliens" would torpedo the economy. They don't want amnesty, but recognize that the economy needs illegals as workers. They see Federal government reform as being the answer rather than State action. They want border control, but recognize that these people are a signficant part of the economy. Their loss would be a castrophy. At least they see the problem and apparently want to work on solutions.

Guess they have even better facts than you, Asbestos.

ASBESTOS 7 years, 2 months ago

"But, because they can't get DL's so they can't get insurance."

Wrong, NO automotive insurance company in the country requires a DL. The CAR is insured, NOT the driver. Drivers are listed by name and address not by DL number.

You lied, again!

You last post was just pure spin. You out to be a washing machne with a "spin cycle" like that.

Shelley Bock 7 years, 2 months ago

Asbestos writes:

"I get it now, you do not like Americans, NO?"

My screen name honors a former USN Admiral from WW1 and WWII, as well as, the good USN ship named after him following his death.

Your name, is a cancer producing mineral or disease.

You say "spin". I say facts.

This argument is over!

ASBESTOS 7 years, 2 months ago

Now were they or were they not latinos in this video which youclaim that latinos are far moe housebroken than US Citizens:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=a7f_1194813218

All that "Spin" in on your side of the equation.

You are not objective, and your analytical skills are worse than my typing skills.

Jason Bowers-Chaika 7 years, 2 months ago

Pardon me but aren't the students who get instate tuition either brought here by undocumented workers when they were blameless children or born here and actually US citizens?

Educate them. It is our moral duty.

This issue is really just this election seasons "protect the sactity of marriage" scare to get the right wing mobilized. The Republicans have no viable plan to curb undocumented workers. We aren't going to build a fence. We don't have enough soldiers to fight Bushes wars never mind patrol our borders. We can't round everyone up and deport them. We can't do without their cheap labor. And sure as hell the Republicans aren't going to scrub their own toilets and trim their own shrubs.

Wake up Republicans you are being duped.

ASBESTOS 7 years, 2 months ago

No need beobachter, it is in the article.

All you gatta do is the math.

JohnBrown 7 years, 2 months ago

Forcing businesses to "verify" that employees are, indeed, US Citizens, is just another government unfunded mandate. In this case, one to force businesses to do the work the US government is responsible for (protecting our borders).

This is just another political stunt. What's ironic is, that it's brought to us by the the same political party that for that past 7 years has failed to protect our borders.

toefungus 7 years, 2 months ago

Deporting all illegals would be just fine. We consume too much anyway. A little less consumption and more savings would be good. People should mow their own lawns, clean their own pools, and prepare their own meals. I do not see a significant downside to more self reliance.

frisco_morse 7 years, 2 months ago

Based on information provided in this article state Senator Palmer's proposed legislation is misguided. How can she link national security to 243 students receiving in-state tuition rates at one of centers of higher education? How does this legislation accomplish anything? What benefit is it expected to yield? Is this a piece of a larger bill or will it stand as discussed? I searched the Kansas State Senate website and could find no further information.

marcdeveraux 7 years, 2 months ago

the catholic church is the only answer, as in, CHANGE BIRTH CONTROL DOGMA! not so many people,not so many border crossers,everything else is a waste of time.why is everyone scared of the church?

RedwoodCoast 7 years, 2 months ago

First I would just like to say that some of the rhetoric in this forum is somewhat disturbing to me. Somewhere way up there in the previous postings, Asbestos refers to citizens as having "children" and illegal immigrants as having "spawn or offspring." How do these "spawn or offspring" apply for childrenship? Better yet, how do they apply for humanship? I think that is the issue at the heart of that attitude--that illegal immigrants are less than human, which is the classic first step on that slippery slope into racism and discrimination. They are people FIRST, and illegal immigrants SECOND, not the other way around.

RedwoodCoast 7 years, 2 months ago

Respected physical anthropologist Stephen Molnar in his book "Human Variation" (6th ed.), discusses total fertility rates in the US. A total fertility rate (TFR) of 2.0 indicates a stable population; enough people are being born each year to replace the number of people who die. A lower TFR indicates no population growth, and a TFR above 2.0 indicates population growth.

For different US population groups, this is how the TFR's break down (Molnar 2006:387): White/Nonhispanic: 1.79 Asian Americans: 1.62 Native Americans: 1.7 African Americans: 2.0 Hispanics (accounting for 13% of the population): 2.7 (Look out Asbestos)

The same is true for Mexico; it is a rapid-growth country. If you look at their age demographic as a battleship diagram, the bottom of the diagram is much larger than the top. This means that Mexico has an overabundance of young people (44% of the population is younger than 15). This translates into fewer jobs, increased poverty, and, as this article illustrates, escapism/immigration. The US has a TFR of about 2.1 and is considered a low growth country. However, if we had a TFR on par with Mexico, our entire system would be stressed to near ruin. Mexico sure can't seem to handle it. Could we?

kawrock 7 years, 2 months ago

All of you liberal do-gooders need to remember that this is not a job issue. This is a national security issue and all of you who are opposed to strengthening illegal immigration laws are putting us at risk for a potential attack on our country. Are you prepared for that so you can pay 20 cents less for your head of lettuce.

sfjayhawk 7 years, 2 months ago

Classic, yet sad - When politicians have delivered nothing, they scare people by blaming immigrants for all problems. A tried and true tactic.

Illegal and legal mmigration is governed by the free market economy. When the supply and demand have reached a nexus, immigrants will stay home. To claim that illegal immigrants come here for free health care or education is pretty weak - by the way if anyone knows where to get free health care please let me know, mine is very expensive and of poor quality.

Jason Bowers-Chaika 7 years, 2 months ago

kawrock (Anonymous) says:

All of you liberal do-gooders need to remember that this is not a job issue. This is a national security issue and all of you who are opposed to strengthening illegal immigration laws are putting us at risk for a potential attack on our country. Are you prepared for that so you can pay 20 cents less for your head of lettuce

Really? Why are the Republicans making such a big deal out of our Southern Border? It really is far easiier to cross into the US from Canada.

The 9/11 terrorists came in from Canada.

The real issue is stiring up a scapegoat that is visable, specifically people with darker skin and not native english speakers. At the heart of this is an attempt to rile up the base and get votes for the Republican candidate in 2008. It is really sick to use racism to drum up votes.

sfjayhawk 7 years, 2 months ago

Dolly - If an illegal immigrant shows up at an ER in need of healthcare should he/she be turned away? Is healthcare a human right or only for citizens? Or moreover, is helthcare in America only for people with health insurance? Only for the rich?

sfjayhawk 7 years, 2 months ago

pa - that is a bit of a reach. If you are asking me, I believe there is a huge difference between buying something at a grocerey vs. needing urgent care. I do think it is wrong for people to go hungry in America and think we should make it a national policy to not have hunger in America.

I will pose the question to you - If an illegal immigrant shows up at an ER in need of healthcare should he/she be turned away? Is healthcare a human right or only for citizens? Or moreover, is helthcare in America only for people with health insurance? Only for the rich? Are you afraid that your answer might be too revealing about your true beliefs?

sfjayhawk 7 years, 2 months ago

PA - I believe that no one should be hungry in America - immigrant or not. It think it is embarrassing that in America, the richest most powerful nation in the world, there are millions that go hungry every day. I have no idea how this balances with 'contracts with free people' I just think people ought not to go hungry - or without health care. I think that groceries are in business to make money, and cant be compelled to give away products - and thats fine with me. I do not see any parallel between Safeway and an emergency room. Hopefully a hungry person will have other alternatives to getting nutrition and food - but even you must admit that hungry people in america is a pretty sad deal.

So again, should anyone, regardless of citizenship status, or insurance not have access to urgent care? I cant answer any better than I have and your refusal to answer only makes you look afraid or perhaps dumbfounded.

sfjayhawk 7 years, 2 months ago

PA - OK - so then healthcare is not a human right, only for those that can afford it? Correct?

sfjayhawk 7 years, 2 months ago

PA - right I think I get it, so what you are saying is if you cant pay, too bad - just die already - only people with money should have health care or, for that matter, be able to eat. What a wonderful and charming world view you have.

sfjayhawk 7 years, 2 months ago

you said no one needs to be treated without a 'contract' - so if you have no money (consideration is a fundamental part of any contract) you get no care?

Just be clear with your answer to this simple question - should anyone, regardless of money or citizenship be denied health care?

bd 7 years, 2 months ago

I feel sorry for the out of state students! They have to pay more tuition than the illegals and they are US citizens - go figure??????

Something is not right!

sfjayhawk 7 years, 2 months ago

PA, too bad you wont answer the simple question - should anyone, regardless of citizenship status, or insurance not have access to urgent care? - you must be afraid of answering - Dollydork, while sick and twisted (There should be free and mandatory abortions for people on welfare) at least is not afraid to expose his vile viewpoint.

Dollydork - too bad your mother wasn't on welfare and living under the rules you dream about!

sfjayhawk 7 years, 2 months ago

Doctor: "You need stitches." Patient (barber): "I have no money." Doctor: "I'll give you the stitches if you give me a haircut a month for a year." Patient: "screw you, Im calling the Canadian authorities" Canadian Authorities: "your health care is considered a human right and provided to you at no cost. Dr, you will provide care. It is immoral and illegal to extort anything from someone that needs healthcare"

blackwalnut 7 years, 2 months ago

Dollypawpaw: If you can't afford healthcare you shouldn't get any. Same with food and shelter.

What if you're too sick to work? What if you're crazy? Crippled? A mother who's husband abandoned you and your kids?

sfjayhawk 7 years, 2 months ago

PA - Simple question - for the 5th time!!!

If you are sick, or injured or in need of medical treatment should you have FULL access to health care in America regardless of citizenship or ability to pay?

I will give you a scenario - an illegal alien is working on the line at a meat packing plant in central Kansas. He is undocumented, and without any kind of insurance. He is injured severely and in need of medical treatment - and only has $5 to his name - should he receive the same medical treatment that a rich, insured american citizen would in an american hospital or clinic - or should he not receive any care? Or should he trade haircuts for his treatment?

dirkleisure 7 years, 2 months ago

----So now every Trauma Center is at a Public Hospital, and they all operate at a huge loss.-----

Source, please. For both states.

RedwoodCoast 7 years, 2 months ago

posessionannex (Anonymous) says:

RedwoodCoast, what is the TFR for Yemen?

Did I miss something? What, exactly, does the population dynamics of Yemen have to do with a debate that seems to be focused on Mexican immigrants? What about the other 107 countries (according to https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2127rank.html) that exceed Mexico's TFR? Here are some others with higher TFR's than Mexico: Iraq, Somalia, Afghanistan, Sudan, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Syria, Libya, Uzbekistan, Kuwait, Egypt, Morocco, Bahrain, Jordan, United Arab Emirates. I'm assuming that's the direction your question wanted me to go.

So why Yemen, again? In fact why ANY country besides Mexico, which seemed to me to be both the focus of the debate and what my post was addressing? And I suppose the long string of countries listed in my post gives those government Post-Scrutinizers some job security and some eyebrow exercise, even though my post has absolutely nothing to do with those countries. My head, or rather, PossessionAnnex's post might indeed be spinning.

sfjayhawk 7 years, 2 months ago

Some (like me) believe that FULL access to healthcare is a human right, some belive it is only for people that are citizens and have money.

Some believe that any government regulation of any kind is a bad idea, that the free market will solve all problems. These same people, strangely enough, want government regulation for immigration, even though immigration is one of the few things that is actually governed well by the free market.

dirkleisure 7 years, 2 months ago

PA - sources please for your comments about trauma centers.

dirkleisure 7 years, 2 months ago

And the similar assertion about Arizona?

It's OK. We all know you make stuff up.

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