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Archive for Thursday, August 28, 2008

Fight back’ advice mulled

KU hesitant to endorse ‘survival mindset’ for resisting campus shooter

August 28, 2008

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Kansas University is still on the fence when it comes to the theory that students and professors should fight back if a shooter comes on campus.

"The safety of students, staff and faculty is a top priority," university spokeswoman Jill Jess said. "Our multitiered emergency notification system includes the emergency public address system, text message alerts, e-mail alerts, voice mail and Web page alerts."

But when it comes to a theory espoused by the Center for Personal Protection and Safety - that students and professors should use their strength in numbers to go after potential threats - KU reserved judgment.

The goal of the training - which includes a video of a gunman opening fire on a classroom - is to teach students and professors to not lie down and submit to threats on campus. Rather, it encourages them to fight back with "improvised weapons," be it a laptop computer or a backpack.

Students and employees are urged to have a "survival mindset" in situations similar to recent shootings at Virginia Tech and Northern Illinois University. About 500 colleges have purchased the video.

"There are many vendors out there with products similar to the video," Jess said. "We can't comment on every one purchased by other colleges and universities."

Jess said KU's emergency management coordinator and university police would advise administrators on any future training.

The Associated Press contributed to this report.

Comments

invictus 5 years, 7 months ago

BeaWow two accidents in the history of gun shows. Show me an incident were people cowered in the corner and the gunman systematically executed 30+ people.

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Marion Lynn 5 years, 7 months ago

"Fight Back" advice, if you are armed..................................two to the body and one to the head!

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gl0ck0wnr 5 years, 7 months ago

"tumbilweed (Anonymous) says: Thank you, death device owner."Death device? Like cars and backyard pools?

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tumbilweed 5 years, 7 months ago

hahahahahahahahahadone butting heads with the "commenters"thank you, good night.

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tumbilweed 5 years, 7 months ago

One more question, thoughwhen glockowner and bowhunter99 dance, who leads?

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beatrice 5 years, 7 months ago

Make Conceal and Carry type training mandatory for ALL gun owners, then allow people to carry whenever and wherever they want. Seems like a reasonable trade off. If you are then found in possession of a gun and you haven't had the training -- automatic 20 years in prison. invictus, you mean shootings at a gun show like this: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9D03E4DC1439F935A25754C0A9649C8B63or this: http://www.wjactv.com/news/14106612/detail.htmlor there is this story about McCain calling for gun control!!! (Wonder why the NRA crowd is ignoring this one?): http://www.kpho.com/news/1099137/detail.html

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tumbilweed 5 years, 7 months ago

Thank you, death device owner.

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Flap Doodle 5 years, 7 months ago

We should honor the genius of John Moses Browning by using his creations wisely.

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gl0ck0wnr 5 years, 7 months ago

"tumbilweed (Anonymous) says: Call me a man with preschooler logic if you want"Ok, you are a man with preschooler logic.

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tumbilweed 5 years, 7 months ago

So we keep guns around cause the bad guys have them?Isn't that a weird form of enabling?How many people who stand so strongly by their guns are just afraid?Call me a man with preschooler logic if you want, but it sure looks like a downward spiral to me, but what the hay, we're doomed, this must be one of the many facets of our demise.

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dandelion 5 years, 7 months ago

bondmen (Anonymous) says:Liberalism says submit to rogue authority - comply and die with dignity.Political Correctness says there is no power in joint action on the part of potential student victims - it may upset the perpetrator who himself is surely a victim.Let's look at the two churches who were attacked in the last year. The gunman in Colorado, which was considered more conservative, was stopped by a volunteer security guard who had a gun, while everyone else just ran for cover. Of course they had received threats and were on alert.The liberal church in Tennessee had one hero, McKendry, who stood in front of people to save them, and several others who tackled him. The nice thing is now he will have to face court and go to prison, even though he was wanting suicide by cop. The gunman in Colorado was granted his suicide wish. I'd rather see the guy squirm in prison. I guess that's not very liberal of me though.

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consumer1 5 years, 7 months ago

Heh heh heh! sorry I just gotta laugh here. On another note, Sdinges, is correct ! However there are a few points that alos must be considered. 1) if you make a practice of surveying each scenario as you enter, you will surely go crazy before too long. YOu will begin to fantasize about what you are doing and lose touch with reality.2) If you don't figure out that you are becoming paranoid, Other people surely will.3) You could probably never be completely prepared for all eventualities. 4) I think the best option is to have a mindset that tells you, if a situation should ever occur where your life or the life of others may be in danger that you would be willing to risk dying for or Killing for the survival of yourself, loved ones or strangers. To be convinced without hesitation that you know in your heart, you could live with the effects of taking anothers life, or giving of your life for what you believe in. Of course before taking any action increaase the odds with what ever tools you can to aid in your success. I never sit in a restaraunt with my back to the door. I survey wherever I am, looking for things out of the ordinary, people who strike me as out of place. ( this doesn't mean I create a bais towards those people), I just control my environment wherever I go. I trust my gut. If something feels wrong, I note it, if it bothers me allot, I may change something around me. I also know the chances of a tragedy happening in Lawrence Ks. are remote, but, just being aware may keep me and others around me alive. Even if they are victims waiting to be victimized. So I agree with the above poster, just in moderation without attracting attention to myself. Or looking like a stalker.

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invictus 5 years, 7 months ago

If guns are the problem; why does no one ever shoot up a gun show?

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sdinges 5 years, 7 months ago

Hey everyone, just a little FYI for emergency situations:First - If you want to ensure that you are able to act, rather than sit panic stricken, you can't just assume "Oh well, I'm brave, so obviously I wouldn't just sit there." You have to train your mind to know how to react in situations so that it can choose the correct action. You need to make yourself aware of all exits and entries into the room you're in, then think to yourself "What if someone came through exit A - what do I do? Exit B? Exit C? What if they have a gun, or only a knife, or a hostage?" Then you also need to take a second to look around and say "What can be used as a weapon? For cover?"What's more, you have to do it with pretty much every new room, new place. After all, while your brain might know what to do in your Anthro classroom, it doesn't necessarily apply that to an attack in the open, or at the grocery store, or in a parking lot.This is also why you should make note of fire exits as you walk through a building. And why they ask you to look at that pamphlet and visually locate your exits on an airplane. It's because in most plane crashes you have between 45 seconds and 2 minutes (I think I'm remembering from a Time article) to exit. But most people just sit there staring, because their brain can't figure out what to do in that moment. However, if you told it what to do before you took off, you will stand up and you will move, like on auto-pilot.Also, people in those situations will often do whatever they're told (for example - all of those men leaving the room in Montreal), as soon as someone takes a forceful or leadership position. So if you want to them to do something specific, you may need to take that role and make sure they know what to do.

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compmd 5 years, 7 months ago

soupnazi,If there is a sniper, the problem is that you don't necessarily know where he is. For less than $500 you can get a sniper rifle accurate to almost half a mile. The real issue is the nutjob that runs into a building with multiple handguns. Learned and Malott are ideal grounds for defense. While the punk might have a gun, you can burn him with molotov cocktails or improvised explosives, various other harmful chemicals, or just blast him with a fire hose and then beat him with a fire extinguisher.

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gl0ck0wnr 5 years, 7 months ago

Curl into the fetal position under your desks and hope for the best. The government will save you.

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barrypenders 5 years, 7 months ago

On the way out of the room trip the liberal. He should draw the fire and you can make a clean getaway.Or, when the gunman enters the room, shout, "He's got a gun" and point to the liberal accross the room.

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S0uPnAzi 5 years, 7 months ago

We may not be able to take the sniper out, but if we rush him/her we could sure put a hurtin' on 'em. I say do it, don't wait like a sheep. The 9/11 flight that crashed in Pennsylvania...they had the right idea, keep the idiots from completing their "mission", however nefarious.

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Marion Lynn 5 years, 7 months ago

tumbilweed (Anonymous) says: No guns= no shootings.How can you argue?"Marion writes:Like the bad guys would surrender weapons! LOL!Weapons registration in Massachusetts:http://www.mass.gov/legis/bills/senate/st01/st01384.htmAn interesting read:http://www.constitution.org/2ll/2ndschol/63perilo.htm

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autie 5 years, 7 months ago

I'm guessing if I was down the hall, I would first look to escape..but in the room..butter knifes or switches..desk, a book..anything to get busy with...

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invictus 5 years, 7 months ago

tumbilweed That statement makes sense in a preschooler's logic kind of way. But I wont dignify it with a response.

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tumbilweed 5 years, 7 months ago

No guns= no shootings.How can you argue?

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invictus 5 years, 7 months ago

snap_pop_no_crackle That's Canadian chivalry for you. Bunch of socialist lemmings.

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invictus 5 years, 7 months ago

logicsound04 By your logic universities could reinstitute slavery on campuses if it is written into their policies. Policies do not supercede the United States constitution.

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coolmom 5 years, 7 months ago

i would fight back and would shout "let's roll" on the way. At least if you die do it with some dignity. i do pray that it doesnt happen to me or mine and that decision never has to be made though.

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toe 5 years, 7 months ago

I make my own decisions on what to do. I do not need a University Policy to guide my actions if I am being shot at.

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logicsound04 5 years, 7 months ago

"These "policies" are unconstitutional. Are any other constitution rights null and void when you cross an imaginary line? "------------------Wrong. Not even Constitutional rights are absolute.Look at the First Amendment--treasonous speech is not protected.Fourth--there are places where no probable cause is necessary to search someone, like before entering a courthouse or federal buildingFifth--double jeopardy has been broken in various circumstancesPlus, by your logic, it should be legal for convicted criminals to own firearms.

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Charlie Naramore 5 years, 7 months ago

Well, you know me, and that may be a start and a statement in itself.What's your name then? Because if you're so 'da-gummed' swell yourself to be telling me to get off my supposed high-horse, then I'd surely like to know.

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jumpin_catfish 5 years, 7 months ago

Mull this experts, I'm not going down like a dumb sheep. Fight back, oh hell yes.

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Flap Doodle 5 years, 7 months ago

Remember the Lepine massacre in Montreal?"After approaching the student giving a presentation, he asked everyone to stop everything and ordered the women and men to opposite sides of the classroom. No one moved at first, believing it to be a joke until he fired a shot into the ceiling.Lepine then separated the nine women from the approximately fifty men and ordered the men to leave."http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89cole_Polytechnique_massacreFifty men meekly walked out & left that madman to kill fourteen people before he killed himself.

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consumer1 5 years, 7 months ago

Charlie, did I offend your delicate sensibilities with my bad reading??? Da-Gummit, as Coach Roy would say. You must have taken me out of context. Get over yourself. I know you and you are not as special as you think you are. I guess my illiterate self made my point it got you all worked up.

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invictus 5 years, 7 months ago

Fight back by explaining to shooter that he is a victim because he doesn't own the means to production. Then after he puts down his gun give him a professorship. It worked with all the criminal radicals of the 60's. But seriously what is there to "mull" over? If someone is killing people around you and threatening your life, is there something to mull over?

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Charlie Naramore 5 years, 7 months ago

Bondmen:"Liberalism says submit to rogue authority - comply and die with dignity."I dare you to show that philosophy to me in any "Liberal" writing or speech or creed or website. And Consumer1, learn to read within context if you're going to so boldly miss sarcasm. When someone make personal rebuttals out of context, they look like a d-bag. But that's the issue with this paper's website, people are allowed to keep their anonymity. I'm sure there are a lot of non-syndicated blogs that would welcome idiots with open arms. Read THAT in context.

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webmocker 5 years, 7 months ago

consumer1 says:"Hopefully this type of event will never happen, God forbid it ever does. I wouldn't want to see anyone hurt. But, if it did happen, I am sure KU admin would find a way to charge money for it.F.A. Holes"Thank you for my first laugh of the day.

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invictus 5 years, 7 months ago

Stupidest quote of the day and it only 9:00 am:Conservatism says "we hate black people. And gays. And the poor".

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consumer1 5 years, 7 months ago

Duplenty, sorry to hear you hate black, gay and poor people. That must really suck for you.Be careful, we have hate laws in this state, that help protect all of us from hatemongers such as yourself. Thank God!

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duplenty 5 years, 7 months ago

"Liberalism says submit to rogue authority"Uh huh. Where does it say that?Conservatism says "we hate black people. And gays. And the poor".Care to prove me wrong?

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invictus 5 years, 7 months ago

With what? With guns, even if there is a no gun policy you have a transcendent right to protect yourself with a firearm. These "policies" are unconstitutional. Are any other constitution rights null and void when you cross an imaginary line? Just be discrete.

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RETICENT_IRREVERENT 5 years, 7 months ago

Joe Biden wasn't allowed to come home until he had "bloodied the nose" of someone who picked on him.

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barrypenders 5 years, 7 months ago

Fight back with witty rejoinders.That's what the messiah is going to do with Putin and Amadidijan.

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75x55 5 years, 7 months ago

Bears the question if a shooter comes on campus - fight back with.... what?

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The_Original_Bob 5 years, 7 months ago

"I am one KU professor who would act immediately to regain control from or repulse a violent person. I would like to think that my students would be right behind me - sorry to hear that KU administrators would not." KU CynicThank you.

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barrypenders 5 years, 7 months ago

Everybody should line up against the classroom wall to be executed one at a time.As a side note, I learned all my surrvival skills back in the 60's watching cartoons like Bugs Bunny and Popeye.

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consumer1 5 years, 7 months ago

Correction, "Be eaten by the strong".

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consumer1 5 years, 7 months ago

Way to go Jafs, I knew someone would show a victim mentality. You are a victim waiting for you moment... Good luck with that. The thing about thugs are, they look for people like you who will lay down and show your weakness. Then they will take your money, your girlfriend/wife, beat your a**, then maybe shoot your cowardly self. I guess evolution does exist. The weak will eten by the strong.

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jafs 5 years, 7 months ago

There must be better ways to prevent these tragedies.In virtually all of the cases I've read about, there were extremely clear warning signs that were ignored by parents, and/or not responded to quickly and effectively by school professionals.Let's prevent them.And, for the record, these kids who are actually doing the shooting are clearly troubled and in need of help - many were victims of bullying and social ostracism, and some had been diagnosed with mental illness.

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consumer1 5 years, 7 months ago

I am sure the weak kneed administrators at KU are more affraid of the liability associated with the law suit that would follow a student death. KU Cynic I am proud you are willing to take a stand. I wish there were more like you on campus. There is no doubt if I am in a volitile situation I also will react. Now someone will blog about how the people who talk tough, but in reality will not act. I am sure they exist. Hopefully this type of event will never happen, God forbid it ever does. I wouldn't want to see anyone hurt. But, if it did happen, I am sure KU admin would find a way to charge money for it.F.A. Holes

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Marion Lynn 5 years, 7 months ago

I remember an event which took place in old Hoch in 1970, I think, in which members of the radical Black Student Union tried to take over Dr. William Bass's Anthro 1 class.There was a TA from Arkansas, kind of a big guy, kind of lumpy in appearance but with an IQ of about 200 and arms the size of most people's thighs; this TA jumped right up and began to kick BSU a**!Dr. Bass and another TA intervened, thereby saving the lives of the now bloody BSU guys and the BSU went on to mess up astronomy classes later in the week.The Dr. Bass and the TAs got a standing ovation from the class and the BSU people were booed as they left the auditorium.What no one knew at the time, was that virtually all of the BSU always carried firearms.I was assaulted by Gary Dean Jackson in one of the classes disrupted by the BSU because some of us stood up and told the radicals to get out of our class. The campus police would do nothing about it because they did not want a "racial incident"!!????

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myopinion 5 years, 7 months ago

The history of many school shootings shows that these shooters will take out as many as they can until they are stopped. I would rather die trying to stop one , even if it was the life of someone else I saved, than to cower and wait for the shooter to decide I am next. It might be the only realistic chance of survival. It is unfortunate that we are teaching a no power mentality.

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KU_cynic 5 years, 7 months ago

I am one KU professor who would act immediately to regain control from or repulse a violent person. I would like to think that my students would be right behind me -- sorry to hear that KU administrators would not.

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bondmen 5 years, 7 months ago

Liberalism says submit to rogue authority - comply and die with dignity. Political Correctness says there is no power in joint action on the part of potential student victims - it may upset the perpetrator who himself is surely a victim.The University cannot hide from a good decision which empowers students in the face of unwanted violence. Let's buff up administration and for heaven's sake take a strong stand!

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