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Archive for Thursday, August 28, 2008

Fight back’ advice mulled

KU hesitant to endorse ‘survival mindset’ for resisting campus shooter

August 28, 2008

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Kansas University is still on the fence when it comes to the theory that students and professors should fight back if a shooter comes on campus.

"The safety of students, staff and faculty is a top priority," university spokeswoman Jill Jess said. "Our multitiered emergency notification system includes the emergency public address system, text message alerts, e-mail alerts, voice mail and Web page alerts."

But when it comes to a theory espoused by the Center for Personal Protection and Safety - that students and professors should use their strength in numbers to go after potential threats - KU reserved judgment.

The goal of the training - which includes a video of a gunman opening fire on a classroom - is to teach students and professors to not lie down and submit to threats on campus. Rather, it encourages them to fight back with "improvised weapons," be it a laptop computer or a backpack.

Students and employees are urged to have a "survival mindset" in situations similar to recent shootings at Virginia Tech and Northern Illinois University. About 500 colleges have purchased the video.

"There are many vendors out there with products similar to the video," Jess said. "We can't comment on every one purchased by other colleges and universities."

Jess said KU's emergency management coordinator and university police would advise administrators on any future training.

The Associated Press contributed to this report.

Comments

Charlie Naramore 6 years, 3 months ago

Well, you know me, and that may be a start and a statement in itself.What's your name then? Because if you're so 'da-gummed' swell yourself to be telling me to get off my supposed high-horse, then I'd surely like to know.

KU_cynic 6 years, 3 months ago

I am one KU professor who would act immediately to regain control from or repulse a violent person. I would like to think that my students would be right behind me -- sorry to hear that KU administrators would not.

compmd 6 years, 3 months ago

soupnazi,If there is a sniper, the problem is that you don't necessarily know where he is. For less than $500 you can get a sniper rifle accurate to almost half a mile. The real issue is the nutjob that runs into a building with multiple handguns. Learned and Malott are ideal grounds for defense. While the punk might have a gun, you can burn him with molotov cocktails or improvised explosives, various other harmful chemicals, or just blast him with a fire hose and then beat him with a fire extinguisher.

jumpin_catfish 6 years, 3 months ago

Mull this experts, I'm not going down like a dumb sheep. Fight back, oh hell yes.

sdinges 6 years, 3 months ago

Hey everyone, just a little FYI for emergency situations:First - If you want to ensure that you are able to act, rather than sit panic stricken, you can't just assume "Oh well, I'm brave, so obviously I wouldn't just sit there." You have to train your mind to know how to react in situations so that it can choose the correct action. You need to make yourself aware of all exits and entries into the room you're in, then think to yourself "What if someone came through exit A - what do I do? Exit B? Exit C? What if they have a gun, or only a knife, or a hostage?" Then you also need to take a second to look around and say "What can be used as a weapon? For cover?"What's more, you have to do it with pretty much every new room, new place. After all, while your brain might know what to do in your Anthro classroom, it doesn't necessarily apply that to an attack in the open, or at the grocery store, or in a parking lot.This is also why you should make note of fire exits as you walk through a building. And why they ask you to look at that pamphlet and visually locate your exits on an airplane. It's because in most plane crashes you have between 45 seconds and 2 minutes (I think I'm remembering from a Time article) to exit. But most people just sit there staring, because their brain can't figure out what to do in that moment. However, if you told it what to do before you took off, you will stand up and you will move, like on auto-pilot.Also, people in those situations will often do whatever they're told (for example - all of those men leaving the room in Montreal), as soon as someone takes a forceful or leadership position. So if you want to them to do something specific, you may need to take that role and make sure they know what to do.

myopinion 6 years, 3 months ago

The history of many school shootings shows that these shooters will take out as many as they can until they are stopped. I would rather die trying to stop one , even if it was the life of someone else I saved, than to cower and wait for the shooter to decide I am next. It might be the only realistic chance of survival. It is unfortunate that we are teaching a no power mentality.

Flap Doodle 6 years, 3 months ago

We should honor the genius of John Moses Browning by using his creations wisely.

beatrice 6 years, 3 months ago

Make Conceal and Carry type training mandatory for ALL gun owners, then allow people to carry whenever and wherever they want. Seems like a reasonable trade off. If you are then found in possession of a gun and you haven't had the training -- automatic 20 years in prison. invictus, you mean shootings at a gun show like this: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9D03E4DC1439F935A25754C0A9649C8B63or this: http://www.wjactv.com/news/14106612/detail.htmlor there is this story about McCain calling for gun control!!! (Wonder why the NRA crowd is ignoring this one?): http://www.kpho.com/news/1099137/detail.html

bondmen 6 years, 3 months ago

Liberalism says submit to rogue authority - comply and die with dignity. Political Correctness says there is no power in joint action on the part of potential student victims - it may upset the perpetrator who himself is surely a victim.The University cannot hide from a good decision which empowers students in the face of unwanted violence. Let's buff up administration and for heaven's sake take a strong stand!

S0uPnAzi 6 years, 3 months ago

We may not be able to take the sniper out, but if we rush him/her we could sure put a hurtin' on 'em. I say do it, don't wait like a sheep. The 9/11 flight that crashed in Pennsylvania...they had the right idea, keep the idiots from completing their "mission", however nefarious.

jafs 6 years, 3 months ago

There must be better ways to prevent these tragedies.In virtually all of the cases I've read about, there were extremely clear warning signs that were ignored by parents, and/or not responded to quickly and effectively by school professionals.Let's prevent them.And, for the record, these kids who are actually doing the shooting are clearly troubled and in need of help - many were victims of bullying and social ostracism, and some had been diagnosed with mental illness.

coolmom 6 years, 3 months ago

i would fight back and would shout "let's roll" on the way. At least if you die do it with some dignity. i do pray that it doesnt happen to me or mine and that decision never has to be made though.

webmocker 6 years, 3 months ago

consumer1 says:"Hopefully this type of event will never happen, God forbid it ever does. I wouldn't want to see anyone hurt. But, if it did happen, I am sure KU admin would find a way to charge money for it.F.A. Holes"Thank you for my first laugh of the day.

Charlie Naramore 6 years, 3 months ago

Bondmen:"Liberalism says submit to rogue authority - comply and die with dignity."I dare you to show that philosophy to me in any "Liberal" writing or speech or creed or website. And Consumer1, learn to read within context if you're going to so boldly miss sarcasm. When someone make personal rebuttals out of context, they look like a d-bag. But that's the issue with this paper's website, people are allowed to keep their anonymity. I'm sure there are a lot of non-syndicated blogs that would welcome idiots with open arms. Read THAT in context.

dandelion 6 years, 3 months ago

bondmen (Anonymous) says:Liberalism says submit to rogue authority - comply and die with dignity.Political Correctness says there is no power in joint action on the part of potential student victims - it may upset the perpetrator who himself is surely a victim.Let's look at the two churches who were attacked in the last year. The gunman in Colorado, which was considered more conservative, was stopped by a volunteer security guard who had a gun, while everyone else just ran for cover. Of course they had received threats and were on alert.The liberal church in Tennessee had one hero, McKendry, who stood in front of people to save them, and several others who tackled him. The nice thing is now he will have to face court and go to prison, even though he was wanting suicide by cop. The gunman in Colorado was granted his suicide wish. I'd rather see the guy squirm in prison. I guess that's not very liberal of me though.

Flap Doodle 6 years, 3 months ago

Remember the Lepine massacre in Montreal?"After approaching the student giving a presentation, he asked everyone to stop everything and ordered the women and men to opposite sides of the classroom. No one moved at first, believing it to be a joke until he fired a shot into the ceiling.Lepine then separated the nine women from the approximately fifty men and ordered the men to leave."http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89cole_Polytechnique_massacreFifty men meekly walked out & left that madman to kill fourteen people before he killed himself.

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