Advertisement

Archive for Thursday, August 14, 2008

McCain foreign policy adviser has financial ties to Georgia

August 14, 2008

Advertisement

— John McCain's chief foreign policy adviser and his business partner lobbied the senator or his staff on 49 occasions in a 3 1/2-year span while being paid hundreds of thousands of dollars by the government of the former Soviet republic of Georgia.

The payments raise ethical questions about the intersection of Randy Scheunemann's personal financial interests and his advice to the Republican presidential candidate who is seizing on Russian aggression in Georgia as a campaign issue.

McCain warned Russian leaders Tuesday that their assault in Georgia risks "the benefits they enjoy from being part of the civilized world."

On April 17, a month and a half after Scheunemann stopped working for Georgia, his partner signed a $200,000 agreement with the Georgian government. The deal added to an arrangement that brought in more than $800,000 to the two-man firm from 2004 to mid-2007. For the duration of the campaign, Scheunemann is taking a leave of absence from the firm.

"Scheunemann's work as a lobbyist poses valid questions about McCain's judgment in choosing someone who - and whose firm - are paid to promote the interests of other nations," said New York University law professor Stephen Gillers. "So one must ask whether McCain is getting disinterested advice, at least when the issues concern those nations."

McCain has been to Georgia three times since 1997, and "this is an issue that he has been involved with for well over a decade," said McCain campaign spokesman Brian Rogers.

McCain's strong condemnation in recent days of Russia's military action against Georgia as "totally, absolutely unacceptable" reflects long-standing ties between McCain and hardline conservatives such as Scheunemann, an aide in the 1990s to then-Senate Majority Leader Trent Lott.

Scheunemann, who also was a foreign policy adviser in McCain's 2000 presidential campaign, has for years traveled the same road as McCain in pushing for regime change in Iraq and promoting NATO membership for Georgia and other former Soviet republics.

Comments

Frank Smith 5 years, 8 months ago

Scheuneman is the guy who brought characters such as convicted embezzler Ahmad Chalabi, who carried fake "information" about Iraq to D.C. to provoke the illegal invasion. He got millions for these crooks before the invasion. That's the kind of guy I'd want for National Security Advisor, right?

0

windell 5 years, 8 months ago

The devil went down to georgia....

0

windell 5 years, 8 months ago

Revenge is a bad motivator. So said sceedposter....So the whole US military mentality toward Iraq is bad??Thank you!!!

0

scott3460 5 years, 8 months ago

Satirical:OK, have been off working, but can now clear up your misunderstanding earlier:You:""This not a tiff, he has said appreciates McCain's tough stance on Russia, but duh:.he also wants some military help which he knows McCain is not authorized to provide. The Georgian President was talking to Bush when he asked for "deeds"."Me:OK, fair enough. And what deeds are the neo-cons who seem so eager to pick a fight with the Russians planning? Seems to me bush has been about as weak and mealy mouthed as McCain. All hat, no cowboy.Screedposter responded:"Overtly, we could blow the tunnel and station Green Beret "advisors" in Tbilisi. Covertly, we could go Charlie Wilson on their A##."I responded:"I said it the other day & I'll say it again. This is not the Iraqi National Guard you are dealing with here. The Russians will fight long and hard if we start tangling with them & they also have nukes. This is why bush, cheney, McCain and all the neo-con kooks are so scary. We pick a fight with the Ruskies, which few American cities are you willing to say bye-bye to? All just so that bush and his slobbering, hothead clone McCain can play Army general? So they can fufill some sort of end times fantasies? Scary, scary, scary people.You accused, as follows:"Scott:Your two statements are contradictory."I never said Russia should never be confronted"Yes, you did."This is not the Iraqi National Guard you are dealing with here. The Russians will fight long and hard if we start tangling with them & they also have nukes. We pick a fight with the Ruskies, which few American cities are you willing to say bye-bye to?" scott at 9:57.It seems like it is my job to remind everyone which arguments they have made because the liberals are so used to swapping topics when they are proven wrong they can't remember what they posted. Or they are deliberately trying to deceive everyone."Then, finally, you stated:"Did you mention Georgia anywhere in you 9:57 post were you made such cowardly remarks about how the U.S. should respond to Russian agreesion?"We have no business picking a fight with Russia over Georgia." - scottI am not suggesting we should immediately get militarily involved, but we do have an interest in supporting a democratically elected government, an ally in the war on terror, and stopping Russian aggression and trying to create another Soviet Union."It is clear from the exchange that took place, Satirical, that I was responding to Screed and that our exchange involved what was taking place in Georgia. Too bad you did not piece that together. I'll be glad to accept your apology whenever you are ready to offer it.

0

malcolm_x_obama 5 years, 8 months ago

The west (G8 - Russia) has been encouraging investment in Georgia. The President has reduced corruption and government. He has made it a good investment. McCain's advisor is supporting democracy by risking his capital for the sake of a fledgling democracy. That's a good thing for liberty, a bad thing for world socialism.

0

malcolm_x_obama 5 years, 8 months ago

Here's whats at stake if Russian principles and precedents are successfully asserted and/or established:Russia has the right to respond to conflicts in South Ossetia and Abkhazia by strategic attack against GeorgiaRussia has the right to use its military force to bomb and invade the undisputed sovereign territory of a neighbor for the purpose of defending the "dignity and lives of Russian citizens"Russian Federation law extends to cover all Russian citizens, wherever they might be locatedRussian Federation law can be used to bring charges against non-Russian citizens who are not resident in Russia for crimes not committed on Russian territory, if their actions are "against the interests of the Russian Federation."Russian military forces can take pre-emptive action, including ground occupation, to protect themselves from the possibility of danger posed by foreign forces on foreign soil.Now some of the liberal morons will attempt to morally equate this with Iraq....(pre-emptive shut the hell up) Second, Iraq was ruled by a ruthless dictator, Georgia is a democratically elected government.Third, where are the Hollywood peaceniks? Where is Cindy Sheehan to condemn here socialist brothers?

0

duplenty 5 years, 8 months ago

"Duplenty, still dreaming of that Pakistan invasion? Revenge is a bad motivator."Revenge for 9/11 is a bad motivator?You're either high or stupid, but you're wrong. We need to avenge 9/11 until every mf'er involved is no longer breathing.

0

beatrice 5 years, 8 months ago

Well, at least he didn't join the Georgia Beach Volley Ball team.

0

jaywalker 5 years, 8 months ago

jhwk2008 states:"You guys have officially lost it. McCain thinks Czechoslovakia is a country, not a region."duped:"This is a cheap canard. No one is saying John McCain isn't aware that Czechoslovakia doesn't exist"Well, duped, to be fair, I thought you had written the first statement, but jhwk isn't alone in believing such. The only thing worse is for people to actually blather that "he's having senior moments", which is the childish sort of thing I've come to expect from you. I'd bet there's not a single public speaker who hasn't mis-spoke. Coupled with the fact that what candidates get fired at them can be complex, bounce from one polarizing topic to the next, and they're forced to measure their responses/be politically and factually correct/engaging/etc., it's a wonder it doesn't happen more often. I imagine that if McCain abandoned town hall meetings and didn't speak frankly, but hid behind monitors like BO does a majority of the time, he wouldn't mis-speak.In any case, it's not nearly as big a deal as you and others want to make it.

0

screedposter 5 years, 8 months ago

1) "Posted: 3:43 amAugust 14, 2008"Who cares? Duplenty, still dreaming of that Pakistan invasion? Revenge is a bad motivator.

0

duplenty 5 years, 8 months ago

So, should you follow screed's link, there should be two very obvious clues to what will follow...1) "Posted: 3:43 amAugust 14, 2008"2) "THE Russians are alcohol-sodden bar barians, but now and then they vomit up a genius."I do believe that "barbarians" is one word, perjoratives aside.

0

JohnBrown 5 years, 8 months ago

Satirical wrote: "...This not a tiff, he has said appreciates McCain's tough stance on Russia, but duh:.he also wants some military help which he knows McCain is not authorized to provide. The Georgian President was talking to Bush when he asked for "deeds".Whether Bush or McCain, the US has NO troops to send. Our military capability has been eroded to the core, both in terms of people and material...all thanks to Bush and McCain. Putin knows he can do what he wants because of the Republican enabled impotence of our military.Since we cannot respond militarily, what is it, exactly, that McCain is being cheered for with respect to being "tough"? Where's the beef?McCain's empty (but "tough") talk is out of step with Bush and O'Bama.

0

jhwk2008 5 years, 8 months ago

In other news, has anyone seen this video about McCain vs. Bush's approval rating? It's very damaging to McCain.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBfngO...

0

duplenty 5 years, 8 months ago

"McCain stated he mis-spoke, but you still try to insist he believes Czechoslovakia is a country? Pathetic."This is a cheap canard. No one is saying John McCain isn't aware that Czechoslovakia doesn't exist. But the fact that the man makes repeated and serious gaffes while speaking in unscripted moments (Sunni/Shiites, Iran/Iraq, Iran/AQ, Czechoslovakia, and on and on) should give anyone concern.Either the man cannot focus when he needs to, or he's having senior moments...neither bodes well for his campaign.

0

duplenty 5 years, 8 months ago

"Does anyone want to have an actual conversation, or do they want to rely on making unsubstantiated claims, and pretending they have won an argument when they have clearly been proven wrong?"Where have you substantiated any claims, satirical?Let's see...the US government, NATO, nearly 100% of our allies and the world media have the same view that Obama has expressed, yet it's "idiotic" because you say so?Uh huh.

0

jaywalker 5 years, 8 months ago

Aha!! Sorry I didn't catch that, Scott, 'preciate the help, and thanks Sat. Never really been up on that text brevity thing.

0

jaywalker 5 years, 8 months ago

"McCain stated he was wrong, but you still try to defend him"McCain stated he mis-spoke, but you still try to insist he believes Czechoslovakia is a country? Pathetic.

0

Satirical 5 years, 8 months ago

jaywalker..."Don't know what this means. To what are you referring?""pardon my ignorance, but I've been curious what the 'roflmao' thing is." - jaywalkerAnswer: "Rolling on the floor, laughing my @ss off." - scott

0

jaywalker 5 years, 8 months ago

Scott: Jaywalk:"Rolling on the floor, laughing my @ss off.Now you can't say I was never nice to you."Don't know what this means. To what are you referring?

0

Satirical 5 years, 8 months ago

Jhwk2008:"Specifically, how are we going to "stop Russian aggression"?"Let me email you my 120 page plan that details exactly when, how, and where to use diplomatic and economic pressure in coordination with our allies, to prevent Russia from conquering Georgia and other democratic nations:You don't even have such standards for Obama:Suffice it to say, military action should be a last resort, but should not be taken off the table.

0

jhwk2008 5 years, 8 months ago

HoleToChina says ..."I am not suggesting we should immediately get militarily involved, but we do have an interest in supporting a democratically elected government, an ally in the war on terror, and stopping Russian aggression and trying to create another Soviet Union."Oh wow, general principles without putting forth any ideas of how to achieve them. Specifically, how are we going to "stop Russian aggression"?

0

Satirical 5 years, 8 months ago

scott...I am not going to continue to repeat myself just for you. Read 11:20 post

0

jhwk2008 5 years, 8 months ago

So what's your proposal Satirical? Bomb Russia? McCain did say there would be "other wars." Is this what he was talking about?

0

Satirical 5 years, 8 months ago

jwhk2008...You are going over stuff we have already covered."So is Dana Perino's statement naive?"YES. I find extremely ironic and humorous you are justifying Obama's position based on the Bush administration's position.

0

jhwk2008 5 years, 8 months ago

Satirical says:I quoted it the other day, do you not remember the discussion? To paraphrase Obama told both the bully Russia, and the victim, Georgia, they they should both restrain themselves."Here's Obama's press release:"I strongly condemn the outbreak of violence in Georgia, and urge an immediate end to armed conflict. Now is the time for Georgia and Russia to show restraint, and to avoid an escalation to full scale war. Georgia's territorial integrity must be respected. All sides should enter into direct talks on behalf of stability in Georgia, and the United States, the United Nations Security Council, and the international community should fully support a peaceful resolution to this crisis."So is Dana Perino's statement naive? Does she speak for the Bush administration?NBC's Jeannie Ohm reports White House Press Secretary Dana Perino made this comment to reporters off-camera about the situation in Georgia: "We urge restraint on all sides - that violence would be curtailed and that direct dialogue could ensue in order to help resolve their differences. We will continue to be engaged."http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/08/08/1255737.aspx

0

Satirical 5 years, 8 months ago

I was wrong once...it was when I thought I made a mistake : )

0

jhwk2008 5 years, 8 months ago

Satirical, why would any one want to have an argument with someone who's never wrong?

0

Satirical 5 years, 8 months ago

Does anyone want to have an actual conversation, or do they want to rely on making unsubstantiated claims, and pretending they have won an argument when they have clearly been proven wrong?Can any liberal defend Obama's lies about what committee he is on? Didn't think so. Or how about his naive remarks about Georgia/Russian conflict...just as I thought.

0

jhwk2008 5 years, 8 months ago

Satirical, if you keep digging at this rate, you'll make it to China before the end of the Olympics. Hilarious.

0

duplenty 5 years, 8 months ago

"Do you need attention jwhk2008 because your mommy doesn't give you enough so you have to resort to these ridiculous tactics?"A textbook example of satirical's "ridiculous tactics".

0

Satirical 5 years, 8 months ago

Jhwk2008:I can't be an English teacher to you and everyone else, but I can state my quote in no way claimed McCain was correct and accurate in still referring to the Czech Republic and Slovakia as Czechoslovakia, as you claim I stated ( "yet you still think his statement was correct?"). Ignoring and obfuscating the fact I have repeatedly stated I McCain made a misstatement, he was unintentionally wrong. Or, to put it in small words you might understand, he made a boo boo. Either you are even denser and more illiterate then duplenty, or you just like playing a childish game of making a ridiculous accusation to get me to respond. Do you need attention jwhk2008 because your mommy doesn't give you enough so you have to resort to these ridiculous tactics?

0

screedposter 5 years, 8 months ago

How the left wins an argument.Congratulations.Meanwhile, Russia says "One can forget about any talk about Georgia's territorial integrity...."The Stalinists win again.http://www.myfoxboston.com/myfox/pages/News/Detail?contentId=7204901&version=2&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=TSTY&pageId=3.4.1

0

jhwk2008 5 years, 8 months ago

Sorry, that was a "misstatement"; it should be "hole."

0

jhwk2008 5 years, 8 months ago

So Satirical, did you misspeak or lie about McCain comments?

0

jhwk2008 5 years, 8 months ago

Satirical says: @ 10:11"The region still exists. He was referring to the two countries, the Czech Republic and Slovakia. McCain has visted them both."And the whole keeps getting deeper. Keep going though.

0

jaythomp11 5 years, 8 months ago

So what do you all do during a typical weekday - or as the rest of us call workdays? The first comment was posted at 7:33 this morning and the most recent was at 11:13. Over 60 comments in 3.5 hours coming mostly from the same people. Quit bitching on this online forum and do something productive.

0

Satirical 5 years, 8 months ago

Jhwk2008:"yet you still think his statement was correct?"Are you deliberately attempting to be obtuse or are you just illiterate? First read my post to you at 11:03. Then try to find in any of my comments were I stated his comment was correct? I didn't.

0

Satirical 5 years, 8 months ago

scott.."You are misreading and taking my comments out of context."Did you mention Georgia anywhere in you 9:57 post were you made such cowardly remarks about how the U.S. should respond to Russian agreesion?"We have no business picking a fight with Russia over Georgia." - scottI am not suggesting we should immediately get militarily involved, but we do have an interest in supporting a democratically elected government, an ally in the war on terror, and stopping Russian aggression and trying to create another Soviet Union.

0

duplenty 5 years, 8 months ago

"Looks like you have re-earned your spot on the ignore list."What you do with your attention is up to you, as I care not. However, it stands that myself and others repeatedly prove you to be wrong using verifiable qoutes and links while you have nothing, nothing but hot air (see the czech republic nonsense above) and your opinion, which you are welcome to.Why is it so hard for you to provide backup for your statements?Oh, sorry, I forgot - when someone asks you to prove what you're claiming, they get placed on your "ignore" list.

0

Satirical 5 years, 8 months ago

Scott:"Now you are the one backing off. You said Obama had lied in an earlier post."He did lie, about which committee he is on. I personally don't believe he lied about his grandfather, and never stated the opposite."Obama at least wants to change the corrupt system in DC." - scottYou believe his rhetoric?

0

Satirical 5 years, 8 months ago

Agnostick:A) According to the Georgian President Russia crossed its border to which Georgia responded. If you were paying attention to this story you would have known about Russia's massive retalitation almost immediately after the fighting began, proving they planned all of this. Also, even if Georgia fired first, this does not give Russia the right to take over Georgia, overthrow it's democratically elected government, and violate a cease-fire it signed.B) I don't follow you point on this issue."I think McCain needs to address the issue and be up front about this potential (from here on out, at least) conflict of interest" - AgIt was known. There is no conflict of interest any more than any of Obama's aid who have previously held any paying job.

0

jhwk2008 5 years, 8 months ago

Satirical says ... "It is difficult to respond to all the liberal. I guess I will have to me more selective in choosing which illiterate idiot to respond to."Hilarious. I posted two quotes by McCain. In the second quote he acknowledges that he mistakenly called the Czech Republic Czechoslovakia. He admitted he was wrong, yet you still think his statement was correct? "And as you know, the Czech Republic and Slovakia split years ago, and from time to time some of us misstate and Czechoslovakia, when the fact is, it's the Czech Republic."Dude, you just got pwned. You might as well keep digging though.

0

scott3460 5 years, 8 months ago

You are misreading and taking my comments out of context. My words were clearly intended to apply to this situation involving Georgia. We have no business picking a fight with Russia over Georgia.

0

scott3460 5 years, 8 months ago

Jaywalk:Rolling on the floor, laughing my @ss off.Now you can't say I was never nice to you.

0

Satirical 5 years, 8 months ago

Scott:Your two statements are contradictory."I never said Russia should never be confronted"Yes, you did."This is not the Iraqi National Guard you are dealing with here. The Russians will fight long and hard if we start tangling with them & they also have nukes. We pick a fight with the Ruskies, which few American cities are you willing to say bye-bye to?" scott at 9:57.It seems like it is my job to remind everyone which arguments they have made because the liberals are so used to swapping topics when they are proven wrong they can't remember what they posted. Or they are deliberately trying to deceive everyone.

0

scott3460 5 years, 8 months ago

SatiricalNow you are the one backing off. You said Obama had lied in an earlier post. But you are correct in the overall assertion that both sides lie. It would be nice if more on your side of the political spectrum acknowledged this and did a better job of assessing the nature and severity of the lie, rather than trying to play one-upmanship. Obama "lie" about the grandfather is perfectly understandable to me. I think we all have family forebearer stories that involve some degree of puffing up. My guess is he was told the story he told all his life about his grandfather and never really knew it wasn't so until the media starting hanging him on it. His fault & it teaches him to check every fact, but in the grand scheme of things a pretty minor sin. I don't know enough about the Israeli thing. All in all, my judgemnt is that McCain, an admitted adulter and lifelong pol is far more cynical and dishonest than Obama. Obama at least wants to change the corrupt system in DC. McCain in the last few years has decided to wade in and enjoy the filth.

0

jaywalker 5 years, 8 months ago

Wow, this string has really taken off today!Agnostick, pardon my ignorance, but I've been curious what the 'roflmao' thing is. Seen it a number of times, not just from you, but is it something you'd mind clearing up for me? If you're able due to content or whatnot. 'preciate it.

0

Satirical 5 years, 8 months ago

Jhwk2008:"McCain thinks Czechoslovakia is a country, not a region. "Great, do I have to explain this all over again? Please read all the posts. My response was in reference to a question about what McCain was referring to, implying his previous argument that McCain wasn't aware Czechoslovakia was no longer a country. It was a misstatement which is different from a lie, like Obama made about which committee he is on.It is difficult to respond to all the liberal ignorance. I guess I will have to be more selective in choosing which illiterate idiot to respond to.

0

Agnostick 5 years, 8 months ago

In a sharp response to Bush's speech, Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov called Georgia's leadership "a special project of the United States. And we understand that the United States is worried about its project."Russian news agencies quoted him saying the United States would have to choose "support for a virtual project" and or "real partnership" on issues such as U.S.-Russian cooperation on Iran and other world tension spots.http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5gDNLWfQWKrQc48pITBUg9KT_6oVwD92HLCF0A_______Tasty!! :p~~~~--Ag

0

Satirical 5 years, 8 months ago

Scott:"Republicans mistate facts, or make errors while speaking. Democrats lie."There you go putting words in my mouth again because you can't refute my argument:Both democrats and republicans have lied and misstated facts. However, the examples listed by Clint and other of McCain's statements are not lies, they are misstatements.Obama has also made several misstatements. While it is arguable he lied about his grandfather in WWII, I think he was either ignorant, or just made a misstatement. I think it is odd, but do not terribly fault him.However, after watching and listening to the entire statement from Obama to an group in Israel that he was on a senate committee that approved funding (or whatever it was) that was favorable to that group, it was clear he was lied and was pandering. Does he really forget what committees he is on, and what he has worked on? This is just as much a lie as Hillary's comments about being fired at when leaving (whatever country that was), or Edwards lie about his affair.

0

jhwk2008 5 years, 8 months ago

"I'm very concerned about Russia. I'm very concerned that just recently because the Czechs agreed with us on a missile defense system that they cut the gas supplies, the oil supplies to the Republics of Czechoslovakia -- excuse me, the Czech Republic. I used to call it and -- the Czech Republic, as you know, has been a very staunch ally and friend.And as you know, the Czech Republic and Slovakia split years ago, and from time to time some of us misstate and Czechoslovakia, when the fact is, it's the Czech Republic."http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7farD... stated he was wrong, but you still try to defend him? Hilarious

0

Agnostick 5 years, 8 months ago

Personally, I don't think it's that big a deal, at the moment, since...A) Georgia picked the fightB) Nobody really foresaw who the GOP nominee would be; we could just as easily be talking about Clinton and Romney, rather than McCain and ObamaCertainly, I think McCain needs to address the issue and be up front about this potential (from here on out, at least) conflict of interest... and maybe even Randy Scheunemann should resign from his current position, not necessarily because of any wrongdoing at this point, but to avoid any potential, future conflicts of interest...But I really don't think anyone can suggest that there was some grand, underhanded schemes and machinations put into place years ago by McCain, Scheunemann, etc.Too many unknowns, too many variables, etc.Agnostickagnostick@excite.comhttp://www.bipartisanbridge.comhttp://marciaford.blogspot.com

0

jhwk2008 5 years, 8 months ago

My mistake, can Czechoslovakia make an agreement with "us"?

0

scott3460 5 years, 8 months ago

"I see that you have backed away from your previous position that Russia should never be confronted:coincidence? " Who has reading comprehension problems? I never said Russia should never be confronted, I simply want to know why we need to do so over Georgia. So that McCain can play tough during an election campaign (talk about putting his interests before the country's) or so that bush and his evil syndicate can entangle us in another ill-conceived foreign adventure are not legitimate reasons for me. And it should go without say, but I guess, given the hypersensitivity of many here, that it is also not a sufficient reason because of some kook theory on the End of Days. And now you have your answer to your hypothetical. Did it get us anywhere?

0

jhwk2008 5 years, 8 months ago

jaywalker says:"Sorry, Clint, but Satirical is basically correct. While it is the Czech Republic and Slovakia now, McCain's references have been towards the region as a whole. It's kinda like referring to Budapest, which is not one city but two, Buda and Pest (Pesht)."You guys have officially lost it. McCain thinks Czechoslovakia is a country, not a region. How else do you explain the following quote? Can "regions" make agreements with the Russians? "I was concerned about a couple of steps that the Russian government took in the last several days. One was reducing the energy supplies to Czechoslovakia. Apparently that is in reaction to the Czech's agreement with us concerning missile defense, and again some of the Russian now announcement they are now retargeting new targets, something they abandoned at the end of the Cold War, is also a concern."http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/07/mccain_again_refers_to_czechos.phpKeep going with your argument though. It's hilarious.

0

stuckinthemiddle 5 years, 8 months ago

just in case anyone cares what the founding fathers had to say about such things:As George Washington stated in his Farewell Address of 1796: "The Great rule of conduct for us, in regard to foreign Nations is in extending our commercial relations to have with them as little political connection as possible. . . . 'Tis our true policy to steer clear of permanent Alliances, with any portion of the foreign World."As James Madison put it, "it has been the true glory of the United States," in "fulfilling their neutral obligations with the most scrupulous impartiality . . . to maintain sincere neutrality toward belligerent nations," and "to exclude foreign intrigues and foreign partialities."Jefferson concurred, declaring that the foreign policy of a free society has to mean "Peace, commerce, and honest friendship, with all nations entangling alliances with none." "Our first and fundamental maxim should be, never to entangle ourselves in the broils of Europe."As John Quincy Adams, author of the Monroe Doctrine put it, "America... does not go abroad in search of monsters to destroy. She is well-wisher to the freedom and independence of all. She is the champion and vindicator only of her own."and if anyone believes that their words are somehow outdated I suggest that their words are far more applicable and pertinent today... as the consequences of not minding our own business are a far greater threat to both our lives and individual freedoms...

0

Satirical 5 years, 8 months ago

duplenty...Looks like you have re-earned your spot on the ignore list.There are several liberals who blog who can have an intelligent discussion, but you, scott, and Clint all come from the same mold.

0

Agnostick 5 years, 8 months ago

Watch all the extremists froth in a haze of hypocrisy and shame... What fun!roflmao!!--Ag

0

Tom Shewmon 5 years, 8 months ago

Yes. Obama's childish response should be WAY more troublesome than McCain's association. Is this meaningless kind of jibberish what he will recite as president and take us down the tubes?

0

Satirical 5 years, 8 months ago

Scott:."It is clear from the statements you made what you were attempting to imply:"It is clear from your response that you can't read. I meant want I said.You gave an argument, to which I countered with a hypothetical. I see that you have backed away from your previous position that Russia should never be confronted:coincidence? Seems like you couldn't counter the argument so you attempt to twist my words and change topics. Twisting my words will not make your argument correct.

0

duplenty 5 years, 8 months ago

"Please discontinue ..."Um, no. You never, ever provide any sustantiated quotes or verifiable information, only opinion. As for what you find humorous or not, tough. You're not in charge of the forums.Your parsing of McCain's considerable gaffes are humorous, however.

0

scott3460 5 years, 8 months ago

Clint, what Satirical is trying to explain is very simple. Republicans mistate facts, or make errors while speaking. Democrats lie. Once you get that down, you'll understand his reasoning much better.

0

jaywalker 5 years, 8 months ago

Sorry, Clint, but Satirical is basically correct. While it is the Czech Republic and Slovakia now, McCain's references have been towards the region as a whole. It's kinda like referring to Budapest, which is not one city but two, Buda and Pest (Pesht).

0

scott3460 5 years, 8 months ago

Thanks for weighing in janeyb, that sure is enlightening.

0

Satirical 5 years, 8 months ago

Clint..."So under your "logic" calling Russia the USSR would be correct because he was referring to the same "region"?"You seem just as intelligent as duplenty and scott. Are you trying to slide out of your losing argument or are you really that daft? When did I say his statement was correct? I have stated numerous times it was a mistatement. You asked "If it's no longer a country "sat", then what was he referring too?" As if it were some place that is mythical, or fell off the face of the earth. To which I responded he was referring to the region, a place that still exists but is now divided and has a new name. If you call someone by their maiden name after they are married you have made a misstatement, that doesn't mean you didn't realize they were married or changed their surname.Your original statement was "It's just too bad that McCain doesn't know that Czechoslovakia doesn't exist anymore:"Having visited both countries, unlike Obama, McCain is clearly aware Czechoslovakia as a nation no longer exists. When he used the name Czechoslovakia he was referring to the region, as in one or both countries. This does not mean he was unaware or ignorant, like Obama on numerous issues.Still waiting to hear your rebuttal about Obama's lies...

0

janeyb 5 years, 8 months ago

It took awhile--the Dems are certainly trying to bury it, but here is Obama's initial statement."strongly condemn the outbreak of violence in Georgia, and urge an immediate end to armed conflict. Now is the time for Georgia and Russia to show restraint, and to avoid an escalation to full-scale war. Georgia's territorial integrity must be respected. All sides should enter into direct talks on behalf of stability in Georgia, and the United States, the United Nations Security Council, and the international community should fully support a peaceful resolution to this crisis. "Apparently he hadn't seen all the army tanks Russia sent into Georgia, and all the destruction all ready done. He must have thought Lil' Russian and Lil' Georgia got in a fight on the playground over the dodge ball game. I think it was what he said after the statement that may have alerted people to a maturity problem. "Surf's up! Let's run to the Tiki Hut and meet Gidget and Moondoggie for surfing and snowcones."

0

scott3460 5 years, 8 months ago

Oh, that's rich Satirical. Go ahead and believe that if you want. It is clear from the statements you made what you were attempting to imply, you just got called on a fact that you got wrong. Of course we would defend a NATO country. We are bound by the treaty to do so. Your supposed "hypothetical" however, has no relevance to the discussion, so it is not clear why you'd bring it up. You were trying to slander us liberal, but failed miserably.

0

Confrontation 5 years, 8 months ago

Does any of this really matter? McCain will forget that he even exists within the next few years.

0

Clint Gentry 5 years, 8 months ago

Pretty interesting "sats", he was referring to the two countries by calling them an obsolete name? So under your "logic" calling Russia the USSR would be correct because he was referring to the same "region"? Come on, you can do better than that, (I'm just not sure McCain can...)

0

Satirical 5 years, 8 months ago

Scott:I will re-post and explain my comments so people with low reading comprehension can understand them. "So you are suggesting we should also run and hide if one of our NATO allies gets invaded by Russia?" - Satirical:IF one of our NATO allies... Where did I say Georgia was a NATO ally??? Anyone with a brain who has been following this situation knows Georgia is not apart of NATO. I gave a hypothetical scenario to rebut your argument that Russia so not be confronted at all costs. You either cannot counter my argument, or cannot read. (I anticipated this response from you given my observation of your previous posts.)

0

Satirical 5 years, 8 months ago

Duplenty..."That's pretty funny, coming from you."Please discontinue the unsubstantiated and non-humorous comments if you want to continue having a discussion. If you want to make a comment and then back it up with facts, that is fine, but don't simply say something which you think is witty (when really it is just stupid) and think you have "won a point," or whatever your purpose is in making such ridiculous comments. It adds nothing to the discussion, it doesn't prove to me or anyone else your comment is accurate, and it makes you appear childish.

0

scott3460 5 years, 8 months ago

"So you are suggesting we should also run and hide if one of our NATO allies gets invaded by Russia? You are a typical naive liberal who doesn't understand there are justifiable reasons to defend one's neighbors or allies."OK, Satirical, you love facts so much. When did Georgia join NATO?

0

Satirical 5 years, 8 months ago

Clint..."Also, referencing Obama's grandpa in WWII is nothing but a distraction. "I see how your liberal logic works, anytime McCain makes a mistatement it is because he is an idiot, but if Obama makes a flat out lie, then it is distraction. Thanks for the clarification.

0

duplenty 5 years, 8 months ago

"You can dish it, but you can't take it."That's pretty funny, coming from you.

0

Satirical 5 years, 8 months ago

Duplenty:"The US is doing absolutely nothing concrete to help Georgia, and we can't; we need Russia on too many levels to become deeply involved in this:"Did I say we were? (This is getting old, please don't twist my comments if you want to continue having a discussion)

0

Satirical 5 years, 8 months ago

Clint...."If it's no longer a country "sat", then what was he referring too?"Are you that dense, or did you not even read your own link? "Czechoslovakia, of course, split into two separate countries in 1993."The region still exists. He was referring to the two countries, the Czech Republic and Slovakia. McCain has visted them both.What a surprise, you dodged the questions about Obama's lies. You can dish it, but you can't take it.

0

Clint Gentry 5 years, 8 months ago

Also, referencing Obama's grandpa in WWII is nothing but a distraction. McCain is approaching senility and you guys don't have a leg to stand on...

0

Phil Minkin 5 years, 8 months ago

scott3460 (Anonymous) says: Can someone also tell me the difference between a provoked Russia invading Georgia to protect it's oil interests and our invasion of Iraq.Scott is right. Tues. Bush's lackey at the UN said that an attack on an independent nation in EUROPE is unacceptable. I guess that lets us off the hook for Iraq!

0

duplenty 5 years, 8 months ago

What are you talking about, satirical? The US is doing absolutely nothing concrete to help Georgia, and we can't; we need Russia on too many levels to become deeply involved in this...

0

screedposter 5 years, 8 months ago

"I said it the other day & I'll say it again. This is not the Iraqi National Guard you are dealing with here. The Russians will fight long and hard if we start tangling with them & they also have nukes. This is why bush, cheney, McCain and all the neo-con kooks are so scary. We pick a fight with the Ruskies, which few American cities are you willing to say bye-bye to? All just so that bush and his slobbering, hothead clone McCain can play Army general? So they can fufill some sort of end times fantasies? Scary, scary, scary people."If Obama is elected, this junk will be official U.S. Policy. I didn't really feel scared about the outcome of this election, but if the Left is willing to sell any ANY democratic republic down the river in the name of peace, it will be 1939 all over again.

0

Satirical 5 years, 8 months ago

Scott...So you are suggesting we should also run and hide if one of our NATO allies gets invaded by Russia? You are a typical naive liberal who doesn't understand there are justifiable reasons to defend one's neighbors or allies.

0

Clint Gentry 5 years, 8 months ago

"it only states he referred to Czechoslovakia, not that he didn't realize it was no longer a country" - SatiricalIf it's no longer a country "sat", then what was he referring too? Be careful you don't break your neck bending over backwards to support war-mongers...

0

Satirical 5 years, 8 months ago

Duplenty:"Satirical, urging restraint is "idiotic"?"Urging restraint to Georgia would be like urging restrain to Kuwait when Saddam Hussein invaded them in 1991. It is idiotic."Then you'd have to think that nearly all of our allies, and this administration is "idiotic" as well, yes?" - dupeYes, the Bush administration's initial response was just as stupid as Obama's. If any other countries gave the same response they are just as naÃive.

0

cato_the_elder 5 years, 8 months ago

Mr. Gentry, if you're going to refer to Al-Qaeda, you need to learn how to spell it first. The eighth-graders next door to your seventh-grade classroom may have learned this already, so next time you might want to check with them first.

0

Satirical 5 years, 8 months ago

Scott:Your comments have reached the ridiculous point of not justifying a response. When you can come up with an argument that is supported by facts I will consider responding. Duplenty used to be as bad as you, but at least now he occasionally makes a supported argument (although not very often).

0

scott3460 5 years, 8 months ago

"Overtly, we could blow the tunnel and station Green Beret "advisors" in Tbilisi. Covertly, we could go Charlie Wilson on their A##."I said it the other day & I'll say it again. This is not the Iraqi National Guard you are dealing with here. The Russians will fight long and hard if we start tangling with them & they also have nukes. This is why bush, cheney, McCain and all the neo-con kooks are so scary. We pick a fight with the Ruskies, which few American cities are you willing to say bye-bye to? All just so that bush and his slobbering, hothead clone McCain can play Army general? So they can fufill some sort of end times fantasies? Scary, scary, scary people.

0

Satirical 5 years, 8 months ago

Clint:Sorry "Clint," you're wrong. I saw the site, it only states he referred to Czechoslovakia, not that he didn't realize it was no longer a country. It was clearly a mis-statement.You liberals seem to only be able to attack McCain and can never defend Obama. How about his comments about his grandfather in WWII? Or his lie about being on a committee that was favorable to Israel to get their support? But of course you will just dodge those arguments so you can keep the conversation away from Obama's obvious and numerous flaws because you can't defend them.

0

screedposter 5 years, 8 months ago

"And what deeds are the neo-cons who seem so eager to pick a fight with the Russians planning?"Overtly, we could blow the tunnel and station Green Beret "advisors" in Tbilisi. Covertly, we could go Charlie Wilson on their A##.

0

screedposter 5 years, 8 months ago

"Can someone also tell me the difference between a provoked Russia invading Georgia to protect it's oil interests and our invasion of Iraq"First off, Russia was provoking Georgia for 10 years.Secondly, there was no resolution from the U.N. threatening "serious consequences" should Georgia fail to comply with the terms of a 12 year old cease fire.Third, there was never any threat of Georgia invading their neighbors.Fourth, Georgia never gassed its own people,Fifth, Georgia is a republic, not a dictatorship.Sixth, Russia is in Georgia because they want to own it, not because they want Georgia to own it.Etc Etc Etc. Otherwise, no difference.

0

stuckinthemiddle 5 years, 8 months ago

fact is that McCain has absolutely zero experience as a leader in these kinds of matters... and it shows in how he's been shooting his mouth off...he is worse than Bush...

0

scott3460 5 years, 8 months ago

"This not a tiff, he has said appreciates McCain's tough stance on Russia, but duh:.he also wants some military help which he knows McCain is not authorized to provide. The Georgian President was talking to Bush when he asked for "deeds"."OK, fair enough. And what deeds are the neo-cons who seem so eager to pick a fight with the Russians planning? Seems to me bush has been about as weak and mealy mouthed as McCain. All hat, no cowboy."Also noted you didn't provide a link to your quote. My guess is you using the typical Michael Moore tactic of only give half the story, and hiding the rest."Well, surprise, surprise, you are wrong again. Prove me wrong, if you can.

0

duplenty 5 years, 8 months ago

Satirical, urging restraint is "idiotic"?Then you'd have to think that nearly all of our allies, and this administration is "idiotic" as well, yes?

0

scott3460 5 years, 8 months ago

"I quoted it the other day, do you not remember the discussion? To paraphrase Obama told both the bully Russia, and the victim, Georgia, they they should both restrain themselves."Please describe how you conclude that is an idiotic remark.

0

scott3460 5 years, 8 months ago

Can someone also tell me the difference between a provoked Russia invading Georgia to protect it's oil interests and our invasion of Iraq. McCain yesterday:"But I do think that Russian behavior is not acceptable, and we will do what we can to maintain our alliances and friends and make the Russians understand that this kind of behavior is not a part of what we view as the 21st century." A statement which must be hilarious to everyone else in the world who may be so bold as to recall that the US has recently invaded 2 countries under bush's so-called preemption doctrine.

0

Satirical 5 years, 8 months ago

duplenty..."That's untrue, and you know it"No, it is true and you know. "What, exactly satirical, was Obama's "idiotic" remark?"I quoted it the other day, do you not remember the discussion? To paraphrase Obama told both the bully Russia, and the victim, Georgia, they they should both restrain themselves.

0

walter_sobchak 5 years, 8 months ago

this is not Vietnam there are rules

0

Satirical 5 years, 8 months ago

scott..."Guess the friends are having a bit of a tiff. Mikheil does not seem to appreciate McCain's impotent response"This not a tiff, he has said appreciates McCain's tough stance on Russia, but duh....he also wants some military help which he knows McCain is not authorized to provide. The Georgian President was talking to Bush when he asked for "deeds".Also noted you didn't provide a link to your quote. My guess is you using the typical Michael Moore tactic of only give half the story, and hiding the rest.

0

Clint Gentry 5 years, 8 months ago

www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/07/14/mccain-references-non-exi_n_112650.htmlSorry "Satirical", your wrong, here's McCain bumbling over himself...again.

0

duplenty 5 years, 8 months ago

What, exactly satirical, was Obama's "idiotic" remark?

0

scott3460 5 years, 8 months ago

"He has broad foreign relations experience and is friends with the democratically elected Georgian President."""Yesterday I heard Senator McCain say we are all Georgians. Well very nice ... but of course it's time to pass from words to deeds." - Mikheil SaakashviliGuess the friends are having a bit of a tiff. Mikheil does not seem to appreciate McCain's impotent response.

0

duplenty 5 years, 8 months ago

"Since he know so little about the situation and history between Georgia and Russia he gave an idiotic response until he was told what was going on, and now echoes McCain's response."That's untrue, and you know it.

0

Satirical 5 years, 8 months ago

"What committees is Obama on?"I didn't include that because that was a flat out lie, it was not a mistatement. During his premature victory lap around the world Obama talked to a group in Israel and lied to them about being on a committee that approved somethign favorable to Isreal.

0

screedposter 5 years, 8 months ago

What committees is Obama on?Meanwhile, has anyone considered the pprofound, earth shattering implications of McCain being in the pocket of the Georgia-lobby? Maybe I'll check out kos...

0

Satirical 5 years, 8 months ago

Clint...It's too bad you don't have facts to prove it either. I heard a few of those, they were mistatements. But of course Obama has never done that....which camp did his grandfather liberate in WWII?

0

Clint Gentry 5 years, 8 months ago

It's just too bad that McCain doesn't know that Czechoslovakia doesn't exist anymore...or where the border of Pakistan is...or where al-queda is located...What experience!

0

Satirical 5 years, 8 months ago

I am glad Obama doesn't have anyone on his staff that has ever received money from any organization or country and won't be influenced by such. Or, rejected public campaign financing and if elected will be beholden to special interest groups. Scheunemann's ties to Georgia were already known, it is a non-issue, and old news except for the late-breaking LJWorld. Obama tried to go after McCain on this issue which made Obama look like a fool and he stopped. In any event, McCain's response to Russia was right from the start. He has broad foreign relations experience and is friends with the democratically elected Georgian President. Obama on the other hand has zero foreign relations experience. Since he know so little about the situation and history between Georgia and Russia he gave an idiotic response until he was told what was going on, and now echoes McCain's response. So either Obama also has an advisor who was previously employed by Georgia, or he understands that Russia wants to overthrow the democratically elected government in Georgia and has continued to violate the cease-fire agreement.

0

Clint Gentry 5 years, 8 months ago

Wow!...What a Maverick! By the way cato, you are ridiculous...

0

duplenty 5 years, 8 months ago

"Worthy of knowing, perhaps, but it's no different from having ties to any other country, e.g. Israel, Japan, Turkey or Finland."Ties, or financial ties? If this was Obama, Cato would be freaking out.

0

cato_the_elder 5 years, 8 months ago

There is zero, zilch, zip, nada wrong about any of this. Worthy of knowing, perhaps, but it's no different from having ties to any other country, e.g. Israel, Japan, Turkey or Finland. The manner in which this story is written implies some type of real or imagined misdeed, and is just one more example of the Democrat-dominated media's insidious efforts to do or say anything to elect a non-Republican president.

0

Commenting has been disabled for this item.