Archive for Friday, September 14, 2007

New ad campaign critical of liberal group

September 14, 2007


— A political group supporting President Bush's Iraq war strategy with a multimillion-dollar ad campaign is airing a new TV ad denouncing a liberal group's sharp criticism of Gen. David Petraeus.

The campaign is the second rollout of ads by the group, Freedom's Watch, and capitalizes on Democratic Party unease over a newspaper ad run this week by, one of the leading anti-war voices among liberal activists.

The MoveOn ad appeared Monday in The New York Times on the morning of Petraeus' first appearance before Congress to testify about conditions in Iraq. The ad accused Petraeus of "cooking the books" for the White House. "General Petraeus or General Betray Us?" it asked, playing off his name.


SettingTheRecordStraight 9 years, 1 month ago

"'General Petraeus or General Betray Us?' it asked, playing off his name.'"

Those moveon guys are so clever! How do they come up with this stuff??

monkeyhawk 9 years, 1 month ago

These ads are great. They should continue to run them, but a little more radical, please. It is apparent that some of the dem candidates are petrified to denounce the hand that feeds them.

And along those lines..........

WSJ, Sept. 8, 2007

"Mr. Hsu turned himself in on that matter a week ago, after news coverage of his past -- which began with a Wall Street Journal article about his unusual campaign giving -- had brought the conviction to light and led politicians to hand over some of his campaign donations to charity. Mr. Hsu posted a $2 million bond -- and then he vanished again. On Wednesday, when he was supposed to appear in court in California, he instead boarded Amtrak's eastbound California Zephyr near Oakland. Along the trip he fell, was taken to a hospital in Grand Junction, Colo., and arrested. On Friday, authorities were taking steps to send him to California."

Who was he really running away from?

mick 9 years, 1 month ago

"You can't tax a nation into prosperity." How about 100s of $Billions in deficit spending. What we are seeing now with our economy is a slow-motion train wreck thanks to deficit spending "conservatives."

stuckinthemiddle 9 years, 1 month ago

I'm not much interested in anything that any Democrats or MoveOn might have to say about Petraeus.. or what any Republican hacks have to say about anything anyone has said about the General... but what Centcom chief Admiral Fallon had to say about Petraeus is telling... I'd post it but the LJW would likely censor it for foulness... Anyone interested can just run a search on "Fallon Petraeus kissing chicken"

stuckinthemiddle 9 years, 1 month ago

And for those of you who aren't familiar with the chain of command in Iraq... Petraeus reports to Fallon... Fallon is Petraeus's boss...

yourworstnightmare 9 years, 1 month ago

The "General Betray Us" line was an obvious pun and a stupid move.

This does not, however, negate the fact that Bush is Turd Polisher in Chief about the Iraq war, and Petraeus is his buffer.

The war is over. Everyone knows it. Bushco is trying to make the ending this war of choice, which he has lost, look "honorable".

drake 9 years, 1 month ago

This is the first I have heard of this. I did a search like stuck suggested and found the same story posted on mostly blog sites and went though 3 pages of search with no credible news outlets running the story. Is this because it didn't happen? Who is the source of this? It is very easy to make things up, post them on the web and say it must be true because it is in writing. Lame.

Uhlrick_Hetfield_III 9 years, 1 month ago

The Democratic Party needs to return to being the party of the middle and working classes. Worse than turning it over to the far left, Sebelius has turned our party over to the worst elements of the Johnson County Republican Party. Kooks to the left of me, wh*res to the right.

jasonc_22 9 years, 1 month ago

I didn't like MoveOn's ad...thought, it certainly did it's job- everyone in the country is talking about it.

As to the 2nd poster....the Dems will, certainly, not be out of power in 2008. I'm not certain we will win the white house, but we will keep the senate and, I'd guess, keep the house. the american people are fed up with the Republican party- just like they were of the democratic party in 1994. Hopefully, for the next 10 years the Republicans remain where they belong- out of power.

situveux1 9 years, 1 month ago

Who cares what the ad about the $100,000 plus discount? I hope the Times gives everyone that same discount. Maybe I'll run my own full page ad.

stuckinthemiddle 9 years, 1 month ago

If they're interested... people should run the search and take a look at all the sites that have the quote and decide for themselves it's veracity... Or... they can just believe the people who comment in here... Not much of a choice...

kugrad 9 years, 1 month ago

This would be a non-issue if it were conservative Republicans attacking the military credentials of a Democrat. They have attacked Democratic veterans many, many times in the last few years (swift boat paid liars anyone?), including members of congress, generals who retired and voiced disapproval of Bush policies, current military leaders who disagree with the president and etc., etc. They are just mad that their smear tactics are being used by others against them! I can hear Rove now, "Hey, that's my technique! Those thieving evildoers!"

stuckinthemiddle 9 years, 1 month ago

posessionannex I own this thread... What is the bulk of the discussion about?

It's all about manipulation... Can you feel it?

stuckinthemiddle 9 years, 1 month ago

And of course... the Fallon quote will stand until someone can prove Gareth Porter (a good old Kansas boy) or his sources are liars...

stuckinthemiddle 9 years, 1 month ago

posessionannex ~chuckle~ Wow... the clears that up, eh?

I actually saw that site and the guy specifically asked about the Fallon quote and Mr. Miller did not deny the quote... As you point out he said "the story is inaccurate"... Which tells me he couldn't deny the quote... You're digging yourself in deep here... Can you feel it yet...?

kugrad 9 years, 1 month ago

possessionannex, The things I listed decidely WERE non-issues TO THE PEOPLE ATTACKING MOVE ON.ORG.

Duh. Of course they were issues to Democrats. My point is obvious and obviously true - Republicans don't like it when the same tactics they use are used against them. It is as though they believe only THEY have the right to question a veteran or miliatary person's patriotism and veracity. When others do it, they are "traitors" who "hate America." When they do it, they have no complaints about it whatsoever.

stuckinthemiddle 9 years, 1 month ago

In the world of discussion/argument/debate... we call this a "bridge jump":

"Enjoy the Hell of ignorance you construct yourselves, leftists, where: the photos of the world trade center walls bowing are manipulated photographs, while the Dan Rather memo, and the Fallon quote, are "fake but accurate."

stuckinthemiddle 9 years, 1 month ago

There's no argument from ignorance here... A quote has been presented and without any proof it has been claimed to be false... No one is saying that it's true because it can't be proven false... The quote simply stands unchallenged by any evidence against it's veracity...

BigDog 9 years, 1 month ago

Why did ALL Democratic Senators vote in favor of the appointment of General Petraeus less than 9 months ago if he was so bad? Not one

Remember Democrats were in the majority at the time and not one of them voted against him. Hillary Rodham Clinton voted for him. Barack Obama voted for his appointment. Chris Dodd voted for his appointment.

stuckinthemiddle 9 years, 1 month ago

posessionannex Do you have any new evidence regarding the veracity of the quote? Or... would you like to argue the importance of Fallon saying and believing this to be true about Petraeus?

stuckinthemiddle 9 years, 1 month ago

BigDog That's a good question... Do you really believe that they all think he's all that bad, now? I'm not so sure that I believe they do...

Kaw Pickinton 9 years, 1 month ago

"A political group supporting President Bush's Iraq war strategy with a multimillion-dollar ad campaign "

There are still people who support Bush's war strategy? Oh wait it's a bunch of millionaires. I get it now.

BigDog 9 years, 1 month ago

stuckinthemiddle I don't believe that they ALL think Petraeus is bad now ..... but given the ways he was treated in hearings on Monday many do. Either that or they were upset that his report wasn't as critical of the President as they would have liked.

Many of them know that they have staked their re-election upon Iraq failing and if it doesn't, they have the harmed their chances of re-election (and staying in the majority). What else can they claim that Congress has done for the last 3-4 years? Remember Democrats came into the majority last election talking about the last do-nothing Congress and how they weren't working full weeks ..... and they were going to change that mentality.

Truth is ...... this Congress still only works short weeks and has not achieved much either.

stuckinthemiddle 9 years, 1 month ago

BigDog Sadly, in my view, about 90% of Democrats... and Republicans, for that matter... are driven by pure politics... And... I also beleive that Petraeus is in part driven by politics... I don't think the exchanges between him and lawmakers have served much purpose other than politicing... I'm not sure that Petraeus is believable... but his Democratic critics aren't all that interested in the truth...

EireishHawk 9 years, 1 month ago

"They have attacked Democratic veterans many, many times in the last few years (swift boat paid liars anyone?)"

kugrad, surely you can see the folly of this statement. If it is wrong to attack Democratic veterans, how can you justify so glibly attacking the entire group of swift boat veterans?

Richard Heckler 9 years, 1 month ago

The Iraq war now needs television commercials to support the BUSHCO blunder. Yes BUSHCO screwed up on 9/11/01 then decided to attack two countries, Iraq and Afghanistan, that did not attack the USA. bin Laden is not a country,government or necessarily a religion.

BUSHCO blunders: House Minority Leader John Boehner has been called to task for calling U.S. troop deaths in Iraq 'a small price' to pay for achieving US goals there." Small price for oil eh? considering gasoline will only go up no matter what? High dollar USA military bases are an achievement? Bush forgot to tell USA citizens about this part of his plan.,8599,1624697,00.html

Isn't it odd that Bush cannot restore infrastructure to the cities Bush destroyed yet somehow Bush can build a luxury 600 room embassy and is building several military bases and all require infrastructure.

Do you remember all of those Bush promises that he was only going to drop by for awhile then leave?

Bush Sees "Enduring" Occupation of Iraq President Bush has vowed the U.S. will keep a large number of troops in Iraq well beyond his presidency. In a prime-time address last night, Bush said he foresees what he called "an enduring relationship" between Iraq and the United States. Bush made the call in announcing he would withdraw a limited number of troops by July of next year. But administration officials quietly announced part of the so-called troop "surge" contingent could remain and even more troops could be sent. That would mean a larger occupation next summer than just before the surge began earlier this year. President Bush also singled out progress in Anbar province where former Sunni insurgents have switched sides and are now fighting al-Qaida in Iraq.

Where are your tax dollar wallets ? Perhaps the 100,000 mostly Kellogg, Brown&Root Iraq war profiteers know better than any of your gang knows?

Michael Klare on the Internal War For Control of Iraq's Oil We speak with Michael Klare, author of "Blood and Oil: The Dangers and Consequences of America's Growing Dependency on Imported Petroleum." Klare says, "There's a second war underway in Iraq that's a war for the control of the oil wealth. That's a war that is pitting Kurds against the Arabs of the country, Shiites against Sunnis, and Shiite against Shiite. Because eventually the Americans are going to leave and the people of Iraq know this."

lounger 9 years, 1 month ago

They must be blind as well as deaf if they are supporting prez Bushes war!!

EireishHawk 9 years, 1 month ago

That's a wonderful gift you have, scene. Sitting half a world (and over a quarter of a decade) away, yet still able to discern that one man was telling the truth and a group of men, who served with him, were liars. Impressive indeed!

Ceallach 9 years, 1 month ago

I do wonder why most democratic leaders have not denounced the ad against the general. At least declaring it to be in bad taste, if not outright condemning it.

EireishHawk 9 years, 1 month ago

I didn't state an opinion about either side's credibility, I wasn't there and don't know any of the men involved. I simply admired your gift.

staff04 9 years, 1 month ago

OK, two things...first, sourcing youtube, 2 blogs and an editorial from the National Review ain't gonna cut the mustard if you are trying to say that MoveOn IS the DNC or is a "front-group" for them.

Second, the Democrats' fear of is no different than Republican fear of the NRA. Bottom line. When Republicans remove themselves from the teats of their cash cows, then they will have a leg to stand on in asking Dems to do the same. Until then, Democrats shouldn't even bat an eye over this. It is a non-story.

Uhlrick_Hetfield_III 9 years, 1 month ago

Big labor became big labor when the Democratic Party represented the interests of working men and women. It is only because the Democratic Party turned its back on working Americans, as Kathleen Sebelius has done here in Kansas, that big labor became marginalized.

kugrad 9 years, 1 month ago

p> is not a Democratic front group despite what bloggers may say. They are a democratic group to some extent, meaning that they let their membership vote on issues that they will address, but they also take Democrats to task. Just last week they were soliciting input on whether they should run ads against Democrats who oppose issues important to moveon members. That being said, their membership has a large number of Democrats, so, the results of their concensus building will generally be anti-republican. They do have a strong pro-democratic bias in my opinion, but they are not a "front" operated by the DNC behind the scenes.

For those of you who question this, think of it another way. has been a highly succesful organization that has had a significant influence on many local and state elections. They are efficient and well organized. They take clear stands that are well-deliniated. HELLO, do you still think the DNC is behind this group? The DNC can't find their own a$$ with two hands, let alone mastermind

jasonc_22 9 years, 1 month ago

Anonymous user

"staff04 (Anonymous) says:

OK, two things:first, sourcing youtube, 2 blogs and an editorial from the National Review ain't gonna cut the mustard if you are trying to say that MoveOn IS the DNC or is a "front-group" for them.

Second, the Democrats' fear of is no different than Republican fear of the NRA. Bottom line. When Republicans remove themselves from the teats of their cash cows, then they will have a leg to stand on in asking Dems to do the same. Until then, Democrats shouldn't even bat an eye over this. It is a non-story."

exactly what i was about to say. I'm a Democrat and can't stand MoveOn...and what do all of you crazies have to say to the fact MoveOn wants to run a primary against so-called liberal Nancy Boyda? Believe me, MoveOn doesn't speak for the mainstream of the party.

EireishHawk 9 years, 1 month ago

Still a Kerry fan? Now that is amazing.

Godot 9 years, 1 month ago

"There are still people who support Bush's war strategy? Oh wait it's a bunch of millionaires. I get it now."

Like the people who control are not millionaires. Oh, wait, they are not. They are billionaires.

Godot 9 years, 1 month ago

How generous of the NYT to give those needy billionaires a break on the cost of an ad. I am sure that extra $100K they saved will be put to good use.

dirkleisure 9 years, 1 month ago

This thread is just like watching Fox News for a day.

Only without Hannity's teeth. Can somebody post a photo of his teeth?

There isn't a credible source on either side of this nonsensical debate. However, I commend right "blacks are still poor because of Democrats" thinker and his ilk for just a massively powerful regurgitation of Fox News blather. Well done. There isn't a single post on here that doesn't 100% mirror what every personality on FNC has said for the past five days.

Well, there is one: The only original thought in 71 comments came from RT, and it was blatantly racist. Still, points for originality. "Blacks." Priceless. If only O'Reilly would put THAT on his talking points.

Oracle_of_Rhode 9 years, 1 month ago


Don't you forget that those "Defeat-O-Crats" won WWI and WWII, and saved South Korea from the commies. Inconvenient truths, huh?

dirkleisure 9 years, 1 month ago

RT - "Of course then, can you imagine an ad on the eve of D-Day calling Eisenhower a traitor?"

Yes. Yes I can. God Bless America.

What I cannot imagine is an ad on the eve of the invasion of Poland calling Gring a traitor. Well, I can imagine it, but the response from the ruling party and its followers would be very similar to this thread.

erod0723 9 years, 1 month ago

right_thinker writes: Ag is one the top dozen or so trolls on the LJW on-line neighborhood, an open and award-winning forum. I don't know if Ag even works.

Do you know the definition of the word hypocrite, because that is what you are. I doubt there is anybody on this entire website that posts more frequently than you. Also, nice job at trying to attack Agnostick's character without refuting any of his arguments. If you believe that the Swift Vote guys did not decide this election through immoral and unethical lying, then you really are the deeply entrenched and unthinking right winger you try so hard to portray yourself as.

erod0723 9 years, 1 month ago

Many of the right wing portray The group as a heinous and unamerican group. However, the best patriots are those that constantly question their government, those that do not acquiesce to presidential rhetoric, and expose government officials for the puppets they are even though it may bring the protesters harassment. Those Americans that merely follow our president and government leadership blindly may live in this country, but they are not patriots. Following without question breeds intense and insane loyalty, and allows the government to destroy the civil liberties that our country was founded on. History has taught us that Imperialism will never work, because there will always be groups of people that will not allow other countries to dictate their national policy. We cannot simply assume that democracy (or a constitutional republic) will work everywhere in the world, because this simply is not the case. We cannot equate every ethnicity and culture to our own. This foolishness on our part caused the Vietnam War and caused this pointless war in Iraq.

kugrad 9 years, 1 month ago

Some of you seem to be arguing that, once a man or woman dons a military uniform, they can no longer be held accountable for their actions, they are above reproach, they may not be criticized for their political acts. This is a democracy! A democratic republic! When a military man plays politics, he is fair game. Surely the Republicans have attacked their fair share of current and former military men in the last 5 years! Good grief!

One one side of the aisle, questions about the war and the information we are being given by our own government are being raised. On the other side of the aisle, questions about an advertisement are being raised.

Once this ad came out, SO DID A LOT OF INFORMATION, none of which supports the good General P.

sfjayhawk 9 years, 1 month ago

who are these 'freedoms watch' people anyway? Must be LJW readers as they are the only people left on earth delusional enough to think there is any kind of 'victory' happening in Iraq. Ask the troops that make it home (many of which are terribly maimed) - they are demoralized and want out - and are tired of fighting for - wait, what are we fighting for again?

janeb 9 years, 1 month ago

Summers_Eve (Anonymous) says:

My lord! Does this Agnostick have a life? The anti-war element has 'jumped the shark' on this one. I would have to think they've made possibly the last and fatal mistake. Not a real sharp move. Being overwhelmed with hatred for President Bush should be dealt with before these people do much else if they want to continue to be heard.

It would seem not judging from the obsessive posting pattern.

sfjayhawk 9 years, 1 month ago

Possession - define what victory would look like in Iraq? Actually according to our fearless combat savvy (oh wait, he was actually AWOL from the national guard during Vietnam ) commander in chief victory already has been achieved - remember him in his shiny new flight suit proclaiming: 'mission accomplished' what a boob.

erod0723 9 years, 1 month ago

Perhaps a reason to stop support for the war is the fact that we aren't winning. Iraq is no closer at political reconcilliation now as the country was before the troop surge. The only way we can get the Iraqis to take their country seriously is the threat of troop removal from Iraq. If they realize that big daddy America won't be there to hold their hand anymore, then I bet they would get their stuff together.

sfjayhawk 9 years, 1 month ago

posession, define what victory would look like in Iraq and what your vision of victory would cost?

erod0723 9 years, 1 month ago

right_thinker (Anonymous) says:

If Agnostick moved any farther to the radical center, it would cause a black hole.Why do extreme centrists hate America?=)

So even the people in the center are radicals now? So, by your own judgment, anybody that is not a far right person is a radical? How can everyone but you be a radical? Maybe you are the crazy radical and are simply in denial.

erod0723 9 years, 1 month ago

We cannot win this war without tens of thousands of American deaths. This war has not made our country safer. Winning this war would require resources far exceeded what the military can handle. The military is almost to the breaking point as is. The only reason Bush is continuing this war is in order to push the responsibility of ending to his successor. Not believe me? Read Draper's "Dead Certain." The troop surge that Bush promised would allow space for the Iraqi government to get things done was a complete disaster. The only way we can make the Iraqi government believe that we mean business is to set a firm date for troop withdrawal. Only Iraq themselves can fix the problem. It is time to stop letting Americans die for a pointless war. Your statement "Suppose you're right. Is that any less reason to support winning the wars?" is analagous to a kid trying to jump to the moon. The kid will never reach the moon and we all know the kid will never reach the moon, but what you are asking us to do is support the kid in his futile effort, which is not only naive, but also reckless and irresponsible.

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