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Archive for Tuesday, October 16, 2007

Study seeks clues to homosexuality

October 16, 2007

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— Julio and Mauricio Cabrera are gay brothers who are convinced their sexual orientation is as deeply rooted as their Mexican ancestry.

They are among 1,000 pairs of gay brothers taking part in the largest study to date seeking genes that may influence whether people are gay. The Cabreras hope the findings will help silence critics who say homosexuality is an immoral choice.

If fresh evidence is found suggesting genes are involved, perhaps homosexuality will be viewed as no different than other genetic traits like height and hair color, said Julio, a student at DePaul University in Chicago.

Adds his brother, "I think it would help a lot of folks understand us better."

The federally funded study, led by Chicago area researchers, will rely on blood or saliva samples to help scientists search for genetic clues to the origins of homosexuality. Parents and straight brothers also are being recruited.

While initial results aren't expected until next year - and won't provide a final answer - skeptics are already attacking the methods and disputing the presumed results.

Previous studies have shown that sexual orientation tends to cluster in families, though that doesn't prove genetics is involved. Extended families may share similar child-rearing practices, religion and other beliefs that could also influence sexual orientation.

Research involving identical twins, often used to study genetics since they share the same DNA, has had mixed results.

One widely cited study in the 1990s found that if one member of a pair of identical twins was gay, the other had a 52 percent chance of being gay. In contrast, the result for pairs of non-twin brothers was 9 percent. A 2000 study of Australian identical twins found a much lower chance.

Dr. Alan Sanders of Evanston Northwestern Healthcare Research Institute, the lead researcher of the new study, said he suspects there isn't one so-called "gay gene."

It is more likely there are several genes that interact with nongenetic factors, including psychological and social influences, to determine sexual orientation, said Sanders, a psychiatrist.

Still, he said, "If there's one gene that makes a sizable contribution, we have a pretty good chance" of finding it.

Many gays fear that if gay genes are identified, it could result in discrimination, prenatal testing and even abortions to eliminate homosexuals, said Joel Ginsberg of the Gay and Lesbian Medical Association.

However, he added, "If we confirm that sexual orientation is an immutable characteristic, we are much more likely to get the courts to rule against discrimination."

Comments

Dixie Jones 7 years ago

straight is straight ,, Gay is gay ...who cares what they are ...they are people just the same .....everyone has a choice.. let them chose.and did they do studies on us straights to determine WHY ON EARTH we are straight????

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Confrontation 7 years ago

Ottr: That's not very conservative of you

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gogoplata 7 years ago

I don't doubt that gays are truly attracted to the same sex. But acting out on that attraction is undeniably a choice.

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Tychoman 7 years ago

This board is about to get very very messy once the trolls get wind of this.

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mom_of_three 7 years ago

I don't see how being gay is being immoral. Just because it is something that you wouldn't want to do doesn't make it wrong....

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staff04 7 years ago

"Homosexaulity is 100% choosen by the individual, this is just another attempt to justify their immoral behavior, end of story."

Well, I guess it's settled then.

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badger 7 years ago

I don't think homosexuality is a matter of yes/no toggle switch genetics. I think that you can be born with a genetic predisposition to homosexuality, and how you're raised affects how much of that predisposition expresses itself and in what context. But I don't know that I believe in genetic testing to say, "Yes, Mrs. Haggard, the amnio is back and your little boy seems to have The Gay. We've prepared a rainbow blanket for your delivery date."

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OldEnuf2BYurDad 7 years ago

Any hard science on the subject is likely to reveal relational roots - family of origin issues, trauma, etc.

"Homosexaulity is 100% choosen by the individual, this is just another attempt to justify their immoral behavior, end of story."

Often "our" choices are made with help from others. The Bible suggests that when a society rejects God, people begin to have sexual idenity issues. Or, at least that's how I read Romans 1.

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Bubbles 7 years ago

I saw a show that had 2 boy monkeys stabbing each other in a tree.

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Bubbles 7 years ago

ThatGirl (Anonymous) says:

B3: Did you choose to be straight? Tell me about your decision and thought process:: ????????????????????????

Mine started when I got a whiff of the female sex pheromone.

What I whiffed from by buddy Bill didn't have the same effect on me.

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staff04 7 years ago

R_t, how did you feel about that federally funded attempt to pass a Constitutional amendment that discriminates?

Wouldn't you want your discrimination to be founded in science? I would think that the social conservatives would beg this kind of study so they could finally prove to us all just how right they are???


I get the point you are trying to make, but taking a quote from someone who has no role in the study and trying to create some illusion of bias in the study is pretty honest of you. As usual.

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Bubbles 7 years ago

Yes, but it a pinch, Bill can be a useful tool.

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acg 7 years ago

I have a question to all you hetero men out there who rail against homosexuality. Ever watch/see any girl on girl porn? Did it excite you? Tell the truth!!

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deuce 7 years ago

I have always known that if you are truly Gay - you were born that way. I use to care for a little boy a long time ago. He actually lived with me and my two young children for about 2 years. I told his Father (and the Father told the Mother) that when he grows up he will be Gay. Everyone denied it until he was 18 - especially to me. When he was 18 he came to my house with his boyfriend and called me Mom. He said I was the only adult that truly knew him. I took the time to get to know this little boy - he was only 4-5 years old at the time he lived with me.

Yes - it is Genetics. They do not need to spend a trillion dollars deciding so either.

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adriennerm 7 years ago

I am a women and I like men. I don't know why, I just do. I didn't chose to like men. Something in me likes men. I think the same is for homosexuals. You like who you like.

I wonder why people fill the need to tell others who they should like, love, and marry? Or should I say I wonder why people think they have the right to tell others whom they should like, love, and marry?

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Godot 7 years ago

"scenebooster (Anonymous) says:

"Many gays fear that if gay genes are identified, it could result in discrimination, prenatal testing and even abortions to eliminate homosexuals,"

That will be the day that conservatives change their tune on abortion:."

You have that backwards.

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craigers 7 years ago

Scenebooster you don't know Jesus, so please don't invoke his name.

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gogoplata 7 years ago

"I don't doubt that gays are truly attracted to the same sex. But acting out on that attraction is undeniably a choice."

So, they should go through life without anyone to love? Wow, what an idiotic remark, gogoplata.

It is not idiotic, it is simply a true statement. You choose how you act. So homosexuality is a choice.

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craigers 7 years ago

Ok, whatever scenebooster. do you confess Jesus as your personal Lord and Savior? If not, then why do you use His name?

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ndmoderate 7 years ago

It's just a figure of speech, craigers. Jesus H. Tap-Dancing Christ.

Ah, to hell with it.

(Oops! Another figure of speech!)

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gogoplata 7 years ago

**Gogoplata: Answer the original question. Do you choose to be hetero? (assuming you are)

I choose to be with my wife.

**gogoplata, You did make an idiotic statement because you said it is how we are, how God made us:and then we should deny how God made us. That sound to me like you are encouraging me to deny God. Good luck with that.

You could use that kind of reasoning to justify almost anything.

**Sorry gogoplata, but you're a moron. You have no proof of your assertion other than your disgusting hatred. Wait, you're not a moron, it is obvious you're a simpleton.

The truth is simple. Do I really need proof to assert that a person is free to choose how they act?

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i_have_only_valid_opinions 7 years ago

I think people are gay because of life experiences and they made the choice to be with the same sex because they ultimately are better off with someone similar. Male and female.

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gogoplata 7 years ago

Yes. I made the conscious choice to be straight. Is that clear enough?

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Bubbles 7 years ago

"Yes. I made the conscious choice to be straight. Is that clear enough?"

Have you ever wished you had made the "other" choice?

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i_have_only_valid_opinions 7 years ago

"RETICENT_IRREVERENT (Anonymous) says:

It's got to be environmental:

I think alot of guys go straight after getting released from the penal system"


Don't you mean "penile" system?

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gogoplata 7 years ago

**So you considered being gay? No. I am attracted to some women and I made the choice to act on that attraction.

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Veritas 7 years ago

I'm fairly certain that someone in here just touched my heinie.

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Chicago_JHawk 7 years ago

I wonder if Jesus ever considered being gay?

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i_have_only_valid_opinions 7 years ago

"Veritas (Anonymous) says:

I'm fairly certain that someone in here just touched my heinie."


"It wasn't I", said the Priest.

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Uhlrick_Hetfield_III 7 years ago

I once ran into a researcher who had done research and found a correlation between having a homosexual child and emotional stress during the second trimester of pregnancy. This would see logical since the gender of reptiles like crocodiles, for instance, is determined bu the temperature in the nest, so why couldn't a slight chemical reaction caused by stress at a crucial time during pregnancy have a similar reaction in determining sexual orientation? That would fly in the face of both the genetic and behavioral models, and probably good if it did since either of the other models is fraught with danger from poorly motivated attempts at social engineering.

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Veritas 7 years ago

I saw Jesus at the hardware store.

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wwwd 7 years ago

You did not make a decision to be hetero...you just are attracted to women. There was no should I do this or should I do that. I did not choose to be a short, balding redhead anymore than my gay friends chose to be gay.

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gogoplata 7 years ago

So that wasn't a conscious choice. You just were attracted to women. And you chose to go with your heart (or your um, junk, as the case may be). I'm not certain I see where there would be any difference for gays.

No I do not have to choose to be attracted to certain women. But I did have to choose to act on that attraction. Now as a married man I choose not to act on those attractions. I don't doubt that gays are attracted to the same sex. All I am saying is that when they have sexual relations it is a choice.

Here is where we differ. You are defining a person as homosexual who is attracted to the same gender. I am defining a person as homosexual who has sexual relations with the same gender. I don't doubt that some men are born with an attraction to other men and women with other women. So by your definition of homosexuality they are born gay, by my definition they are not born that way and it is clearly a choice.

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Veritas 7 years ago

gogoplata...is this how you reassure yourself that YOU aren't a homosexual?

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gogoplata 7 years ago

how is that illogical?

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frank mcguinness 7 years ago

So if there is a gay gene then is there a bi-sexual gene. haha lol

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gogoplata 7 years ago

Come on Veritas, that one is really old. Got anything new?

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Veritas 7 years ago

I save the old ones for the old farts. New ones for the new farts. And so on.

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BlackVelvet 7 years ago

I like rabbits..............................................

and redheads.

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BigPrune 7 years ago

I'm not sure this study is being looked upon by an unbiased group due to comments made by various researchers working on this project.

On another note, Honey, do these genes make me look gay?

(budumbum.)

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jonas 7 years ago

"The Cabreras hope the findings will help silence critics who say homosexuality is an immoral choice."

The only problem is that it will probably then usher in the meddlers who would like to try and "cure" it.

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jonas 7 years ago

"craigers (Anonymous) says:

Scenebooster you don't know Jesus, so please don't invoke his name."

No one here knows Jesus. He's been dead for 2000 years and he doesn't directly talk back to you. By your rationale, no one here, or anywhere in the world, is capable of using his name. Accepting him is NOT the same as knowing him.

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jonas 7 years ago

"b3 (Anonymous) says:

Because Craigers the liberal posters on here have the mentality of children, thus by name calling or insulting something you hold dear they hope to drag you down to their level and they are able to hide behind their computer screens."

http://a503.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/33/l_1ce096095649b134253ddcc7b6911186.gif

Man, that's good. Thanks.

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tangential_reasoners_anonymous 7 years ago

"This board is about to get very very messy once the trolls get wind of this."

( present company excepted )

"One widely cited study in the 1990s found that if one member of a pair of identical twins was gay, the other had a 52 percent chance of being gay.... A 2000 study of Australian identical twins found a much lower chance."

So... a coin flip, at best? Oh yeah, that sounds like a gene.

"It is more likely there are several... nongenetic factors, including psychological and social influences, to determine sexual orientation...."

Why... I've said this very thing, myself, on many occasions.

"If we confirm that sexual orientation is an immutable characteristic, we are much more likely to get the courts to rule against discrimination."

... and what if we find pedophilia to be an "immutable characteristic?"

"If so, then what's the big deal-everyone is banging who they want to bang."

... husbands "banging" wives ... rams ramming rams ... priests diddling choirboys ...

"Being Catholic is a choice, so then we should discriminate against Catholics? Or only when they are too Catholic in public?"

[see "priests," above]

(Have you noticed that, when ThatGirl asks a question, she really-REALLY-demands an answer...?)

And, how many posts in, did Defender begin resorting to name calling? (Time and time, again, he demonstrates that, in the final analysis, it's all he's got.)

"If it's genetic, how do the genes get passed on?"

Actually, it's genie-etic. This was alluded to in the article...

"the lead researcher... suspects there isn't one so-called 'gay gen[i]e.'"

So, it would all appear to be the work of a roving band of gay genies...

( poor little greenies )

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gccs14r 7 years ago

I suspect that homosexuality is not a binary trait, any more than hair color is.

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Marcy McGuffie 7 years ago

DotsLines -

I'm not a science expert, but I remember just a wee bit from Biology 101.

Without giving an entire lecture on dominant and recessive genes - it's possible to carry a gene without you displaying it. For example: a person can carry a red hair gene and NOT be a redhead. Red, is a recessive gene. If they got the redhead gene from their mom and a black hair gene from their dad - they will probably have black hair - because that's the dominant gene. Then, it's entirely possible for this black haired person to pass on the redhead gene to their child - but it would also take a redhead gene from their partner to make a redhead (and no, their partner doesn't have to be a redhead to give that child that hair color).

I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm way off base. But, if there is a gay gene, it wouldn't have to be passed on by a gay individual...just someone who carried the gene (which I assume is recessive considering the gay population is small compared to the hetero population).

ThatGirl -

I think I love you in a totally hetero way. ;) Your comments made me smile...sounds a lot like what I would have said had I read this earlier today.

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Marcy McGuffie 7 years ago

gcc beat me to the punch...and was a lot less wordy!

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tangential_reasoners_anonymous 7 years ago

"I suspect that homosexuality is not a binary trait, any more than hair color is."

Only her hairdresser knows for sure.

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gogoplata 7 years ago

gogoplata, I think you should start hanging out with straight people, ask them questions. I'm sure you'll find they aren't choosing to be straight. If you feel you made a choice, you're gay. I wish you wouldn't then take that choice and act like there is something wrong with gay people, because there isn't.

What I am talking about is action vs feeling. A married man who simply feels attracted to another woman is not an adulterer unless he acts upon those feelings. It is a choice he is free to make. He can act on the feelings or he can push them away to stay true to his wife. The same is true for those that have an attraction to the same sex. They have the choice to act on those feelings or to push them away. The point I am making stands firm. When you define homosexuality as the sexual relationship between two people of the same sex, it has to follow that being a homosexual is a choice.

I am not defining a homosexual as one who is attracted to the same gender. If you want to define it that way then you can say that they were born like that.

Is it not that difficult to understand the point I am making.

Here is the definition of homosexual from the dictionary 1 : of, relating to, or characterized by a tendency to direct sexual desire toward another of the same sex 2 : of, relating to, or involving sexual intercourse between persons of the same sex

According to definition one you can say that gays are born with that attraction.

According to definition two it has to be a choice because it is a specific action taken.

So which definition do you want to use of who is a homosexual? I am guessing that most of you are going with number 1.

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Dorothy Hoyt-Reed 7 years ago

I know sexual preference is genetic. After my experience with my exhusband, I should have turned to women, but I was still physically attracted to men. Fortunately I ran (not shied) away from any man that was like the jerk. I pay attention to my life lessons.

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mick 7 years ago

Funny thing about "science" like this- one can come up with pretty much any result one wants. The only challenge is to make it seem believable and objective.

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tangential_reasoners_anonymous 7 years ago

"One widely cited study in the 1990s found that if one member of a pair of identical twins was gay, the other had a 52 percent chance of being gay:. A 2000 study of Australian identical twins found a much lower chance."

So: a coin flip, at best?

In case it was missed earlier, identical twins are identical genetically. They are not genetic "variations on a theme." They have the same genetic makeup. So, why would not ALL identical siblings of a gay twin be gay-that is, if gayness is genetic?

Hmm... I guess maybe one twin could have undergone a "Fantastic Four" sort of transmutation (... or maybe that only works with quadruplets.)

Frankly, I think it's the work of the gene genies.

( poor little greenies )

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beatrice 7 years ago

Just as I thought when I saw the headline -- the same people coming out to bash on gays. The same exact people, time and time again! Might there be just a wee bit too much interest in what men are doing with other men for some of you? Just the thought of sweaty man on man love gets the same fingers flying on the keyboards with a passion that is usually reserved for private moments.

So why can I not help but to think of Reverand Ted Haggard or Senator Craig or former Representative Mark Foley, and so many of you protesters at times like these? Protesting just a bit too much, marys?

Homophobia is queer.

And all you closeted marys prove it again and again.

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Rationalanimal 7 years ago

"...part in the largest study to date seeking genes that may influence whether people are gay."

Just toss the previous data and announce your desired conclusion already. That's what the use of "seeking" implicates anyways. If the gay crowd has gone this long trying to find the desired genetic link without success, the data contradicting the theory must be way too embarrassing even to skew the results. What's wrong with admitting you're making a choice. I make choices every day. I'm not ashamed of the choices I make. By seeking the genetic link, gays are necessarily committed to the position that without a genetic link their behavior does not comport with natural science. Otherwise, the genetic issue is moot.

Beatrice, you forgot Barney Frank and the boy prostitute ring run out of his basement by his boyfriend that Barney didn't know about. The only reason Haggard, Craig or Foley is an issue is because conservatives actually care about morality whereas socialists/liberals couldn't care less, but, do rejoice when others that care fall short. That is more of a commentary on the poor character of vicious people than it is on the human fallability of conservative leaders.

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workin2hard 7 years ago

Not long ago gays did not want you to know they were gay. Like a child hiding what he did was wrong. It was a private matter don't ask don't tell. Then things started to change it bacame the in thing to become gay or bi. Guys thought it was great to see 2 women. Now its everywhere they demand for it to be excepted. Now they say its in the genes. How many gay people were sexually abused when they were children? Some don't even remember they were abused. Maybe they should do a study on that. Child abuse is now comming out all over when that was hidden as well. Personally i think its a choice maybe even an unconscious choice but a choice none the less.

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beatrice 7 years ago

pro-hetero would mean you write and write and write letters on issues regarding heterosexuality. You don't. You get all hot and steamy when it comes to sweaty man on man love. Mary.

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Dorothy Hoyt-Reed 7 years ago

beatrice I always thought it strange that the bigots are so obsessed with others sex lives. I've never been concerned with anyone's sex life but mine and my husbands, and my children when they were underage, and could become a parent too young.

Rationalanimal - Abuse does not equal homosexuality. Children who are raped by people who are sick. It is a power issue, not a sex issue. Homosexuals do not even pick people up in bathrooms. The gay people I know (male and female) have partners, some who last, some who don't. Having sex with children or in bathrooms would be disgusting to them. I am sure I have worked with people who are gay or lived next door to them, but I don't talk about their sex life anymore than I would talk about the heterosexual's sex lives.

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Rationalanimal 7 years ago

dorothyhr,

I think your comments are addressed to Workin2hard. I certainly don't want to hog the limelight.

Although, I'll add this. It is a fallacy of post hoc ergo hoc to say that conservatives are obessesed with other peoples sex lives because by in large they disagree with homosexuality. Homosexuality was brought to the forefront by the homosexual crowd, not the other way around. Would you really hold to the argument that were it not for conservatives bringing up the issue we would not be discussing it. It is hard for even the most left leaning socialist conspiracy theorist to believe a conservative wizard of oz is covertyl behind all the drag events and gay pride parades. The fact is that it is gays that have brought and continue to keep the issue at the forefront of American politics. They have mobilized their agenda for the last 20 years and have increasingly brought the issue to the forefront, i.e., "coming out of the closet." Granting that the proposition that those who continue to raise the issue are obsessed with the sex lives of others, you are committed to the conclusion that it is actually homosexuals who are obsessed with the sexual lives of others, not conservatives. The homosexual obsession with sex as a defining character trait is probably what concerns most conservatives about the whole discussion. Sex is not the ultimate defining character trait then for conservatives as it seems to be for homosexuals. It is most likely why homosexuals so ardently desire a genetic link so that sex drops out as the defining characteristic.

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tangential_reasoners_anonymous 7 years ago

Betty, Dottie,

I'll begin with a Rational... thought: "What's wrong with admitting you're making a choice?"

It would appear that members of the gay community find this simple acknowledgment to be remarkably threatening, seeking refuge instead in some personally distancing genetic determinism.

To what extent does this apparent unwillingness to accept responsibility for so central a personal choice reflect discomfort with the choice which has been / is being made?

Why is it that, when confronted with the simplest, evident truths regarding homosexuality as a chosen lifestyle, that the conversation seems so consistently to degrade into name-calling by the homo-supportive (e.g., idiot, simpleton, moron, homophobe, obsessed bigot)?

When will members of the gay community stop hiding in the "gene-ie's lamp" and participate in an honest dialog regarding homosexuality?

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Rationalanimal 7 years ago

"Yes, heteros have really not much to say about their normal sex lives. Why would it require so much white space and/or airwaves? Boring."

No, it is not that heterosex is boring, it is because heterosexuals do not crave the validation that predominates the homosexual discussion. This evidences the skewed perception resulting from the homosexual obssession with sex.

Dotsline, thank you, my thoughts are much faster than my typing. Your correction is kind. However, your characterization of the fallacy is incorrect or overlooks the point. To say that conservatives are obsessed with other's sex lives because they disagree with homosexuality is not logically sequential. The fallacy must fill that gap. Were it not for homosexuals perpetually raising the issue at every turn, studies, gay parades, out of the closet festivities, gay awareness initiatives, etc, conservatives would simply not even be discussing the issue. Thus, it is a fallacy to say that conservatives are obssesed with the sex lives of others because they disagree with homosexuality after the issue has been raised in the first place by the homosexual crowd. Whereas, it is supported to assert that homosexuals are obssesed with sex since they are instigate and perpetuate the conservation. it is simple logical cause and effect. Again, it is not a wizard of oz conservative that is behind the drag events and gay parades.

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Jason Bowers-Chaika 7 years ago

Irrationalanimal,

Gay persons have parades, events, protests because we are discriminated against by persons that wish we would stay hidden in the shadows. Sexual Orientation is set and not changeable. Earlier you asserted that if you are attracted to a women but choose not to act on it you have remained true to your wife. It is commonly accepted that the Bible says that if you lust in your heart then you have already committed adultery.

Being Gay is not a choice as orientation is the deciding factor not behavior. Even celibate persons have sexual orientation whether it be straight, gay, or some degree in the middle.

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storm 7 years ago

Being hetero or homo is a choice. Being hetero or homo is also genetic. Having blonde hair is a choice. Having blonde hair is also genetic.

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ontheotherhand 7 years ago

With so much hatred, adultery, and other sins being committed every single day, what gets me is why would anyone care if someone is in a same-sex relationship? I really don't see how someone's personal preferences affects my ability to live my life as I want to. To the people who continue to damn homosexuality: do you spend even HALF this much time condemning your friends who cheat on their spouses or hit their wives? Do you condemn them for cheating on their taxes? Or is there a "Sin Scale" where homosexuality is the number one sin (so it counts more) and the others are less important? The other thing I wonder about: how many of you anti-gay people even KNOW someone who is gay? Do you REALLY think they are worse than all of the people you know? Just curious . . . . I'm just so amazed that this subject gets discussed as often as it does.

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situveux1 7 years ago

Ahhh, my hard earned tax dollars at work.

How is DNA analysis of identical twins inconclusive? They have the EXACT SAME DNA! If there is a gay gene, then they either both are or are not gay! Any other outcome just proves that while genes may favor a person being or not being gay...it isn't all genetics!

So just say it, 'I choose to be gay and I'm proud' and stop wasting my tax dollars!

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tangential_reasoners_anonymous 7 years ago

americorps says: "You ask us to lie? Shame on you, it sounds as though you are forked with the tongue of the devil delving for false witness."

Ask you to lie? Quite the contrary. ( Quick, someone, get me a witness.... )

As for the forked tongue, sorry... misplaced olfactory bulb. ( Curse this reptilian physiology. )

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tangential_reasoners_anonymous 7 years ago

ThatGirl says: "Tangenital Reasoners..."

Well, OK, I guess it does have a tan appearance, but I think its just natural pigmentation. ( I thought I'd covered this already with lawrencechick-what is it with the "girls" in these forums? )

ThatGirl says: "Hell yes...."

Oh, heavens, no....

ThatGirl says: "... if someone is going to try and make a point, and stand on their own logic, I have a right to ask them to support that logic. If they can't, then they are just contributing b/c they like the sound of their own voice...."

Well, the keys on my keyboard do have a nice "click."

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sourpuss 7 years ago

I don't care why someone is gay or not. I don't care IF they are gay or not. Why don't we all just stay out of each other's bedrooms? (unless you're playing patty-cake with them of course, then by all means - or even take it to the couch if that blows wind up your skirt)

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Tychoman 7 years ago

Wow I so called this.

Predisposition or all-out genetic influence doesn't make any difference, it's still not a choice.

Craigers: "You don't know Jesus so don't invoke his name."

To which I say: Pot, kettle, black.

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erod0723 7 years ago

Why does it matter if homosexuality is genetic, environmental, or a lifestyle choice? The fact remains that EVERY citizen of this country deserves the SAME basic humans rights. Homosexual couples have just as much right to marry and have families as traditional couples. What I see coming from the far right wing is that it is okay to hate and discriminate against homosexuals if it is found out to be a lifestyle choice. By that token, I say let's take away human rights from Missouri fans, because I find their lifestyle choice of school to support to be morally repugnant. Every citizen in this country deserves equal protection under the law as guaranteed to them by the Constitution. Come on right wing-- let's stop the bigotry and oppression and just accept people for who they are. Being gay does not make someone a dirty or bad person. It just means they have a different persuasion in the relationship and sexual departments.

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erod0723 7 years ago

"AIDS, as twisted and ironic as it is, was a boon to the gay agenda. They were able to gain much ground during the Reagan years with AIDS, a disease directly linked to the homosexual sub-culture, which it isa sub-culture. That's what they want it to be, plus a protected class with rights that supercede the rights of mainstream America."

Right Thinker, Please tell all of us how asking for the same rights as heterosexual couples (marriage, health benefits, legal benefits) is asking for superceding rights?

I am just amazed at the sheer hatred and bigotry displayed by those on the right. You can't just pick and choose the juiciest parts of the bible and then ignore the rest. Adultery and divorce are big no no's according to that book, but yet (un)christians are sexing it up outside of marriage and getting divorces at rates never seen before. I am reminded of a quote by jesus: "Let he who has no sin cast the first stone." Get the hell off your high horse and stop trying to regulate and oppress people that don't jive with that book of yours.

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workin2hard 7 years ago

So when they "find" this so called gene would that be a defect like other abnormalities? And if so would they then ask for disability because of hardships in the work place, neighborhood, vacations. (Excluding Disney) Problems leading to stress and depression and suicide. What other problems they can come up with. Looks like if you open a door a crack then it goes flying off the hinges.

Maybe people would not be so upset if the rallys and marches and public anouncements were not everywhere. Employers get uneasy because if they don't get the job then they start screaming. Then it creates job tension between 2 coworkers and the gay plays the victim. And then wonder why people are so upset. Granted it does not happen at every job. Keep it to yourself.

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Tychoman 7 years ago

"Employers get uneasy because if they don't get the job then they start screaming." --Yes, because this happens so often.

Captain, once again you've crossed the line from being a troll to posting your hate speech. It'd be FANTASTIC if the LJWorld would stop turning a blind eye to your hatred and start enforcing their own policies regarding hate speech.

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Jason Bowers-Chaika 7 years ago

Hallaluea! I prayed long and hard and now I'm cured. I no longer have the gay. Capt. Oblivious can I have your daughter's or sister's hand in marriage. I'm still having trouble getting aroused by women and would rather watch ice skating than have sex with women but i'm hoping that viagra will help in the bedroom. If all else fails I'm hoping that we can use a turkey baster for procreation because vaginas make me want to puke. But at least I'm not offending conservative republicans by my existence.

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tangential_reasoners_anonymous 7 years ago

americorps says: "I for one like to see the capt continue to post: He is the perfect example of how stupid and how far from reality the racists are and with each post he repulses so many civilized people...."

How do you rate the repulsivity of gayokay's comment: "vaginas make me want to puke."

( I take it that the anus is less "puke" evoking than the birth canal? )

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tangential_reasoners_anonymous 7 years ago

Not that I'm a proponent of intelligent design, by any means... but... maybe God designs in mysterious ways.

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Jason Bowers-Chaika 7 years ago

Mangina Vs. Vagina...discuss. The thing is that not all gay men are into anal. Some hetero's are into anal--both women and men. Some hetero men enjoy having their prostate stimulated by their hetero female partner or by doing it themselves this doesn't mean that these men are gay. Both subgroups are into oral to varying degrees.

But again we digress, sexual orientation is not what people do it is who they are attracted to.

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workin2hard 7 years ago

So Tychoman why don't you just fond another job where you are accepted. If i own a business and don't want to hire you because of whatever reason that should be my choice. I should be able to feel comfortable at my business. If you have a business and only want to employ gays then that should be your business. Why would you want to be at a place where you know you are not wanted and then pitch a fit when you are not catered to. Now you can use the possability of a gene as a scape goat.So you can say feel sorry for me its not my fault.

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tangential_reasoners_anonymous 7 years ago

"Mangina Vs. Vagina"

I'm REALLY hoping that you just dropped an apostrophe:

"M'angina Vs. Vagina"

... and I hope your chest pains go away, too.

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sfjayhawk 7 years ago

Many of these bigoted gay bashers are probably the same people rubbing toes with Sen. Craig in an airport bathroom. I also love how many of the hardcore christian right only interpret the bible literally when it suits them or when it gives them an excuse to hate.

How can anyone who is not gay say with certainty that it is a 'choice'? what a joke....

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tangential_reasoners_anonymous 7 years ago

I've just been rubbing my crooked little toes with ThatGirl.

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tangential_reasoners_anonymous 7 years ago

"M'angina Vs. Vagina"

On second thought, maybe you should be avoiding sex with that heart condition.

Vagina will win every time.

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Tychoman 7 years ago

workin2hard, try telling that to any other person protected under the anti-discrimination legislation. "Why don't you just find some other job where they accept blacks/females/foreigners/atheists/etc." I see where you're coming from, but it just doesn't work that way.

Captain Hatred: I wasn't addressing the research at Oregon as hate speech. You continually refer to homosexuality as a disease and on equal grounds with pedohilia, necrophilia, and bestiality. Americorps has a great point, but LJW's inaction with your hatespeech shows nothing but bias and gives him credibility, if there is even such a thing on an anonymous Internet forum.

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