Archive for Monday, November 19, 2007

Animal activist or publicity hound?

November 19, 2007


A stirring profile of a strange and controversial figure, "I Am an Animal: The Story of Ingrid Newkirk and PETA" (7 p.m., HBO) says as much about the contemporary state of media and intellectual discourse as it does about animal rights or Ms. Newkirk.

A relatively obscure organization just two decades ago, the People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals has become the controversial face of the crusade against cruelty to animals. And that's just the problem, say many PETA critics in other animal-rights organizations. Priscilla Feral, president of Friends of Animals, declares that Newkirk and PETA have "trivialized animal rights" with their media grandstanding.

"I Am an Animal" follows PETA activists as they attack a fashionable Paris boutique displaying fur coats. And, just in time for Thanksgiving, we also get to watch an undercover investigation of a turkey-processing plant. When one young activist, who had dedicated weeks and months to the project, fails to come up with usable footage, Newkirk throws him overboard in a brutally dismissive manner.

It's no exaggeration to say that Newkirk has dedicated her life to her ideals. She had herself sterilized at 22, because she felt it was immoral to bring new infants into a world where there were so many suffering and homeless children. Her last will and testament instructs PETA to "barbecue" parts of her body when she dies to illustrate the horrors of meat eating. She also wants her skin to be turned into a wallet and other leather goods.

Newkirk insists that PETA's "jarring" tactics are a necessity in a media world where ideas and causes are boiled down to 15-second sound bites. But her former colleague and PETA co-founder Alex Pacheco had to leave the organization. He argues that the stunts have gotten in the way of the message. This point is underscored with footage of a Hollywood PETA rally hosted by actress and pathological exhibitionist Pamela Anderson.

Newkirk's story may be called "I Am an Animal," but a more apt title could be "I Am a Publicity Hound."

¢ Taped last Thursday, Comedian Ellen DeGeneres performs at the comedy festival in Las Vegas, Nev., on "Ellen's Really Big Show" (8 p.m., TBS). Invited guests include magician Lance Burton and singers Mary J. Blige, Sheryl Crow, Barry Manilow and Wayne Newton.

¢ The 13-part series "Invention Nation" (9 p.m., Science) invites viewers to suggest ways to solve everyday environmental problems.

Tonight's other highlights

¢ Sarah's jealousy comes to the surface on "Chuck" (7 p.m., NBC).

¢ Chris takes a job at a Chinese restaurant on "Everybody Hates Chris" (7 p.m., CW).

¢ Claire complicates her father's escape plan on "Heroes" (8 p.m., NBC).

¢ An overbooked wife and mother (Molly Shannon) suffers an unusual breakdown in the 2007 cable comedy "More of Me" (8 p.m., Lifetime).

¢ A plastic surgeon's murder seems wrapped in mystery on "K-Ville" (8 p.m., Fox).

¢ Calleigh under fire on "CSI: Miami" (9 p.m., CBS).

¢ Dan follows a serial killer into the early 1990s on "Journeyman" (9 p.m., NBC).

¢ The two remaining worthies meet Brad's mother on "The Bachelor" (9 p.m., ABC).

¢ Author Lisa Gardner appears on "Murder by the Book" (9 p.m., Court TV).

¢ "Weeds" (9 p.m., Showtime) wraps up its third season.

Cult choice

Former socialites (and cousins of Jacqueline Bouvier Kennedy Onassis) dwell on the past as they live amid squalor in the 1975 documentary "Grey Gardens" (6:15 p.m., Sundance), an inspiration for a recent Broadway musical.


acg 10 years, 1 month ago

These PETA people pss me off. Go to hll, PETA freaks. Meat tastes good, fur is warm.

heysoos 10 years, 1 month ago

I'd love to get my hands on one of those wallets. Is there a waiting list I can get my name on?

Flap Doodle 10 years, 1 month ago

IIRC, a few years ago, PETA wanted the town of Fishkill, NY to change its name. Fishkill is the English version of a Dutch term that means "fish creek", but PETA thought it sounded too icky.

Oracle_of_Rhode 10 years, 1 month ago

heysoos (Anonymous) says:

I'd love to get my hands on one of those wallets. Is there a waiting list I can get my name on? --

No, but I know where could get some human lampshades, since you like that sort of thing.

vego91 10 years ago

I find it extremely convenient that this site posted mainly comments in favor of the article above. To reply to a few of you closed-minded and sad individuals: Regarding Ted Nugent- I feel bad for him, I'm sure his daddy or an uncle 'touched him' one too many times. The person who wants a wallet made from a human- You are the exact reason PETA exists and I thank you for that comment. It shows perfectly where the human race went wrong. If meat tastes good then I'd like to see you grab a dead animal and eat its meat raw. I doubt you would have made that statement. Meat comes in wrapping and you cook it and flavor it only to be able to stomach it. And for the person who wrote that they love leather but wouldn't wear fur from an endangered species. The reason animals have went and are going extinct is because of people in this forum who care only about instant self gratification and do not care about the consequences of our actions to this planet.

So eat your meat, watch your football with a beer in each hand, watch playboy.. Whatever it takes to get over your daddy issues. There are better ways though. What have you done to help the planet? PETA also donates fur to the homeless adults and children in 3rd world countries. What did you do this year? How many lives did you save? How many babies did you warm? How many mouths did you feed besides your own? How much food did you throw away? I challenge all of you to think before running your mouths.

Go to a slaughterhouse and then post a comment. You never see a comment by a man working for a slaughterhouse for 30 years commenting that it's a great living and he loved his job.

It's sad that a world of information is at your fingertips and you don't take the time to read the facts. Some of you wearing your lovely fur right now could be wearing dog or cat fur because countries mislabel it. How would you feel if someone grabbed your beloved pet and threw them around in the air by their feet. Or dropped a brick on their head and laughed when they cried out. Or skinned it alive?

If the world were improving then maybe you could all be entitled to your opinions but unfortunately that's not the case. You all live in your cozy homes with extra coats, extra food, bratty children, parents that probably didn't teach you much about the ecosystem, and sadly you only care about yourselves.

You can't all be so egocentric can you.

craigers 10 years ago

Little arrogant vego91? Nah, all meat eaters must be horrible people and have bratty children. (eyes rolling)

vego91 10 years ago

Not horrible, just ignorant. But that doesn't mean hopeless. Everyone can change after learning the facts.

imastinker 10 years ago

ctually vego, I love a nice rare steak with no flavoring or steak sauce at all.

Also, I have butchered my fair share of animals, and it has never bothered me, except the one time I ruptured an intestine. I'd imagine that a butcher likes his job about as well as anyone else.

vego91 10 years ago

"I'd imagine that a butcher likes his job about as well as anyone else."

If you are speaking on behalf of all the men in undercover investigations at slaughterhouses who do things such as "skin live animals while the animal moans and cries for help, hump live turkeys while they are hanging upside down by shackled legs, throw live animals into walls while smiling, rip out body parts of live animals who weren't properly killed, insert their fingers into live animals vaginal areas while laughing, brag about punching live animals in the face until their eyes popped out, kicked blood into the face of a dying cow and laughed, (I could go on for pages)"- then I thank you sir for posting your comment. If this is "likable" as you put it then I rest my case.

vego91 10 years ago

Marion- that's the best adivce you've got? "You need some help". Wow, how incredibly insightful. Yes powerful words with such depth that I know exactly what you were trying to convey with that message. Why didn't I think of that before. Very clever sir thank you.

vego91 10 years ago

Marion- that's the best adivce you've got? "You need some help". Wow, how incredibly insightful. Yes powerful words with such depth that I know exactly what you were trying to convey with that message. Why didn't I think of that before. Very clever sir or ma'am- thank you.

vego91 10 years ago

Blue- If I am the one intolerant of the opinions and behavior of others then why are there comments above referring to PETA people as "Freaks, nut jobs, and crazies"? It seems there some people above who are self-righteous. But if you would like to be biased and single me out then so be it.

vego91 10 years ago

Blue- Thank you for at least admitting that you may be egocentric. That you cannot put yourself in another's shoes. This also makes my case.

Wow you guys are awesome, I think you are secret PETA people commenting on this forum to get me to make my points clear.

Flap Doodle 10 years ago

"The reason animals have went and are going extinct is because of people in this forum who care only about instant self gratification and do not care about the consequences of our actions to this planet." The quagga went extinct in 1883, long before this forum existed and before any of the people posting here were born. But don't let reality get in the way of vein-throbbing hyperbole.

vego91 10 years ago

Snap- There's also been over 750 extinctions in the last 500 years. The correct word I should have used was endangered. Thank you.

Flap Doodle 10 years ago

"...because of people in this forum ..." We didn't do all of it.

Flap Doodle 10 years ago

To clarify my last post, "We" = the people in this forum.

quietgirl 10 years ago

Vego91- You need to first take a breath, then SHUT Up! What an annoying diatribe of patooey. Who exactly do you think you are?

vego91 10 years ago

Snap- You seem intelligent so I'm sure you figured out that I meant "like people" in the forum who were commenting earlier. I'm sure I don't need to clarify that the people in this forum didn't cause dinosaurs to go extinct. Glad we're clear now.

Quietgirl- "SHUT Up"? Wow, yet another insightful reply. Thank you for strengthening my case. You are helping so keep them coming please.

vego91 10 years ago

I love it- everyone please keep them coming. Your one liners are perfect!!! Thank you thank you thank you.

trinity 10 years ago

probably the same one who made that hilarious video, crying his eyes out about britney or whatever poptart was in trouble that day.

Lulu 10 years ago

A dog is a dog as a cat is a cat and a fly is a fly as a fish is a fish as a human is a human. If you look real close you will see. We are all the same.

Please support Planned Parenthood in their quest to keep our freedom alive and away from Colonel Kline.

Thank you Lulu

vego91 10 years ago

Bob- Actually PETA is also the reason:

"Swiss watchmaker Swatch, Burton Snowboards, and fashion giants Rebecca Taylor and Nicole Miller have made the compassionate decision never again to use fur in their designs. After learning from PETA how animals who are killed for their fur are treated, these companies realized that cruelty to animals and fashion just aren't compatible. In a letter to PETA, Swatch's Chief Operating Officer Reto J. Stckli wrote, "Swatch Ltd. and the Swatch Group Ltd. do not want to be associated with cruelty to animals." Swatch, Rebecca Taylor, Nicole Miller, and Burton are now part of a growing group of compassionate companies that have adopted fur-free policies, including Calvin Klein, Ralph Lauren, Tommy Hilfiger, H&M, Forever 21, J.Crew, Gap Inc., Abercrombie & Fitch, American Eagle, and many others."

So I guess they're not too loathed.

vego91 10 years ago

Gosh I wish I could continue but I'm on my way to Good Will. Bye all. It was interesting.

beatrice 10 years ago

"If you're a 12 year old, who are you going to think is cool, Newkirk or Ted Nugent?"

I'll bet you would be hard pressed to find a 12 year old today who has a clue who Ted Nugent is, and if you point him out in a crowd most pre-teens would likely think he was a weird old guy who needs a haircut.

On the other hand, plenty of 12 year olds will think the lady who protects animals is cool. She has that warm and cuddly concept going her way, even if she is a loon, which the kids won't know. Plus, the 12 year olds do know all the actresses who protest in the nude rather than wear fur.

I guess I'm just a little more open to some, but only some, of PETA's ideas. There are plenty of things that can keep you warm without having to skin minks for their pelts, for instance, but a non-leather basketball just doesn't bounce the same as a real leather one. And meat tastes good and provides valuable nutrients and protein, so don't try to make me feel bad for eating a steak. Basically, I feel we need a much less extreme version of PETA.

williaa 10 years ago

I used to be a member of PETA until I wrote them asking for help with an animal and they told me that they believed in euthanization of all dogs of this breed regardless of the situation (still have the email to prove it). I would much rather give my time and money to organizations that are trying to really help animals, not exploit their own agendas (i.e. the humane society). And no, I don't eat meat, but it's a personal choice that doesn't need to be discussed or forced on others. I think fur is gross, so I don't buy it. End of story. The documentary is fascinating, Ingrid definately has some issues.

Flap Doodle 10 years ago

Steak for dinner sometime soon. Boffo!

beatrice 10 years ago

Favorite line from Hedwig and the Angry Inch: Ladies and gentlemen, do you like the pelt? Be honest, because some bitch stopped me on the way in. "What poor and unfortunate creature had to die for you to wear that?" My Aunt Trudy, I replied.

thomgreen 10 years ago

I've never been a fan of fur, but that doesn't mean I think everyone that wears fur is evil. Does PETA picket Inuit tribes? I believe a majority of them use fur in their garments.

I also believe there is a difference between an activist and an extremist. PETA, unfortunately, has move more and more away from being an activist group to an extremist group.

As for this statement.... "The reason animals have went and are going extinct is because of people in this forum who care only about instant self gratification and do not care about the consequences of our actions to this planet."

I disagree. The reason the majority of animals have gone extinct are because of major changes in their environment, either through natural changes or through human interference. Slowly but surely we are taking the human interference out of the equation through responsible land management, animal population management, and education. Do we still have bad apples, sure!, do we still have a ton of education to do, sure!. In the end, I don't think anyone has started the day thinking, "hey, let's drive an animal to extinction today". Ignorance is best met with education, not terrorism. Tell a hunter he/she is stupid for hunting deer and you're message is going to hit a brick wall. But tell a hunter that there are limits to how many deer he/she can take in a season so that there will be deer next year and the year after, and you're a lot more likely to find an open mind.

Flap Doodle 10 years ago

vego was channeling Ed Gein there for a while. Icky.

Frederic Gutknecht IV 10 years ago

I can't figure PETA out. They seem to want to treat animals more like people and people more like animals. How does that make sense? It seems like we're all animals that treat animals like animals, most of the time. I do agree that it's pretty horrible that we're wiping out the endangered chicken, pig and Domesticated critters that are destined for consumption are treated horribly, of course. That's a money thing. I don't think PETA has any moderation in its game plan or heart, so they won't give up the fight if we allow animals destined to be killed for human consumption to lead a more idyllic life. They'll simply lose their most powerful recruiting tool. Hunting is quite regulated and no game animal is going to be eradicated by hunters. Animals that are hunted get to live their lives the way they live their lives. Humans are simply another predator for them. They always have been just another predator. Market hunters were a problem but we don't really have to worry about that problem here and now. The human "footprint" is the biggest problem for animals and that problem won't go away if we stop eating them. PETA would be working on human population control and neutering themselves if they were really serious about helping animals. Their current tactics don't much help their cause. Their campaigns do seem to work on the guilty rich and richly guiltless.

shockchalk 10 years ago

vego91..........Actually, after reading the article, and the comments posted after it, I feel sorry for you. My guess is that your Uncle or Daddy must have touched you for you to have such a narrow-minded, self righteous, and ignorant view of the relationship between people and animals. Thank you for showing us exactly why most of the people in PETA are extremist and publicity whores. You care nothing about animals, you are obsessed with your agenda. My guess is that you are at Burger King, not Good Will.

vego91 10 years ago

Hi guys, I'm back. I had a feeling while I was gone there would be plenty of remarks since I wasn't here to defend myself. So let's get going with replies shall we:

"I am completely tolerant of the nutjobs. And calling people like you freaks nutjobs or crazy isn't intolerant, it's, how should I put this:Accurate! That's the word I was looking for!" - Once again this has much meaning an insight and I will surely take it to heart. You did nothing but add the word "accurate"- congratulations.

I was not comparing Wal-mart to PETA. How absurd. I was asking what you (the people in this forum) are doing for the good of the planet.

"And meat tastes good and provides valuable nutrients and protein" - You can't be serious about this comment. I can't even type a reply without laughing. Please read up on the 'delicious' 'nutritious' birds and cows you are eating. It's your health so I hope you aren't simply going by that one little fact to support the nutrients in your body.

"Precisely my point. Because PETA and the ALF are so off-putting, they do more harm than good to "the cause." - The funny thing about this statement is you have no clue what PETA has accomplished and is accomplishing. You have no idea what changes they have made. Yet another point- people if you're going to argue against PETA please do your homework. If you're not up to date with the facts then why comment.

more coming ... I ran out of space....

vego91 10 years ago


One person must have googled PETA and BAD and got their comment "From July 1998 through December 2005, People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PETA) killed over 14,400 dogs, cats, and other "companion animals." That's more than five defenseless creatures every day. PETA has a walk-in freezer to store the dead bodies, and contracts with a Virginia Beach company to cremate them." - Wow you looked up one site that everyone who knows how to read already heard about and knows is absurd. Find me a few books on these "facts" and we'll have a discussion.

"Animals that are hunted get to live their lives the way they live their lives. Humans are simply another predator for them" - I'm sure you'll all heard the quote 'Hunting is not a sport, in a sport both teams know they are in a game'. You can't actually say that hunted animals live their lives normally. Yes a deer would normally in normal life get tricked by someone with a gun and shot. Yep that's just the animal way right? A gun? Give me a break here. What men! How tough and strong! The day you can't go into a grocery store and pick up some meat already there and you can't find any other source of food- then we'll talk. Until then, there is no reason to hunt and kill animals. Sorry but none of you have given one good reason for any of your comments. "It tastes good"- good one! So if human baby flesh tasted good would you condone that too? Come on folks there has to be one person out there with one solid argument for eating meat, wearing fur, and hunting. I haven't eaten meat in 16 years and have yet to hear one solid argument.

Most of you can only reply with one little line and it usually shows what little education you have- to use profanity and words like "nutjob" which isn't even in the dictionary.

"Thank you for showing us exactly why most of the people in PETA are extremist and publicity whores." - Chalk up one more for the carnivores- you used the word "whore" now. You guys are on a roll. Keep it up cause it only strengthens my case and the real problem.

vego91 10 years ago

Veal is yummy hugh. Yea watch the whole video. Does it give you a warm fuzzy feeling?

Do you even know what baby cows used for veal go through? Probably not, which is why you posted your comment. Seems to be the thing for this forum.

vego91 10 years ago

"If God didn't want us to eat animals, why did He make them taste like meat?" - Oh here we go, I was waiting for the God put animals here for blah blah blah comment. They also made animal sacrifices on alters back then. Things change. Cannibals say that human flesh tastes like chicken so now what does your comment mean?

Come on, we all know with the amount of people we are trying to feed nowadays (let's not go into how obese American's on a whole are) it's impossible to 'humanely' kill that amount of animals. That's the issue. That's the problem. PETA is trying to urge companies to use more humane methods for how animals live their lives before they are killed and they are trying to make sure animals are actually dead before mutilation. Now some of us yes will say no animals need to be killed period. But, PETA is trying to compromise with companies- but of course, most care about the bottom line.

"Bet you wouldn't dare post a picture to prove you don't look like you're from some third world malnutrition factory." - Do you not know one vegetarian or vegan? You mean to tell me you think they are all emaciated? My goodness. Go to or and see some of your beloved celebrities that are healthy and beautiful. So far Britney and The Simpsons have been mentioned in this forum- I'm not sure how to reply to such comments.

vego91 10 years ago

Pywacket- For the second time- I should have written "endangered" instead of "extinct". Didn't you read all of the replies before commenting? If it makes you feel intelligent to focus on one grammatical mistake instead of the ISSUE, then so be it. Again my point made! Thank you yet again. Does anyone have any real arguments or is this what forums are used for- to slander people you've never met in your life. I'm not sure why you think I am a child. I do have children who I have raised vegan though and they're healthy and beautiful.

If you use terms such as BTW and BS- then I wonder your age as well- youngster online talk.

Funny that you refer to the homeless person as "it". (I'll end my reply with that, seems a pefect fit)

vego91 10 years ago

Bob- that's two comments about defecation now. Gosh maybe you should go and get it out already.

vego91 10 years ago

The good thing about all of this is that the last posted comment was on Nov.19 before today and look at all of you who are so interested in this topic. If it meant nothing to you then you wouldn't post. If you couldn't care less then you wouldn't care what I was typing. So thank you all for your continued interest in this topic today. It means a lot. Keep it going.

(Das_Ubermime- If you 'could care less' then there's still hope. )- since we are getting all technical with writing here.

Marcy McGuffie 10 years ago

Oh my goodness, I can't stop laughing.

Vego -

It's obvious that you're a newbie to the LJW forums. People do get vicious, but slander would seem to be the wrong word choice. Its hard to ruin a person's name or reputation when the account user is anonymous! I'm just saying...

Obviously, you have your opinions and are quite passionate about them, but take a look in the mirror. You started out your end of the discussion attacking anyone and everyone who doesn't think like you. If you want a serious debate, you must play nice. While I found your first post rather amusing (although, I know that wasn't your intent), I could see how others would find it offensive. Honey, if you're going to sit there on your butt calling people names and making broad generalizations, you ain't gonna make it around these parts.

But, apparently, by your actions you aren't even looking for a true debate...just an argument. May I suggest you get off your high horse?

Also - my hubby loves raw meat - so, if you'd like to see him chomp some bloody beef or something just name the time and place...

Flap Doodle 10 years ago

TOB, do you need some bran muffins to get things going? I hope everything comes out all right.

Frederic Gutknecht IV 10 years ago

I get sick at the thought of death being quantified by how guesome it may appear to those who despise death. Everything dies. Correct? For one to decide what individual deaths are good and which are bad is somewhat insane. Death is PART of life. It is not bad. I can certainly see declaring that an unnecessary exterpation of species is insane, but not causing the death of an individual of a species. We do it every day. Every life contributes to death. That IS life. One can always step more lightly through the tulips, but that should not be the goal. We should rejoice in life and death. It is what brought us here. We are not quite gods, yet. We shouldn't act like gods. That may be the point at which bone crunchers and PETA should intersect. Unfortunately, agendas get in the way.

vego91 10 years ago

Das- I would love to hear how I "act on those flawed views." I am a vegan and I don't wear fur, why would you despise that act? I'm not sure how that is unrealistic. My health is better for it and I have no blood on my hands.

Bob- let's hope none of your food has contamination- hey maybe that's why you poo so much? Are you sick? Bob, you should get checked out, I wouldn't want you to get food poisoning. Since we're swapping meals, I'm making Thai tonight.

Goodnight all. And thank you to those who have personally emailed me, I know what you mean about this group but someone has to do it.

vego91 10 years ago

Oh one more thing I forgot for JJ- "For one to decide what individual deaths are good and which are bad is somewhat insane. Death is PART of life. It is not bad." - So if someone hung your mom upside down tonight by her feet and cut her throat so she could bleed to death while she was squirming around by her ankles, then ripped out her insides and cut off her extremities... would you be mad if that murderer got the same punishment as a killer who shot someone or would you want your moms murderer to pay more for the more severe crime? We have juries to decide this sort of degree in court so why can't people decide it for animals as well (well I should clarify- "non humans")

Okay, that was all the replies I think. Night.

Frederic Gutknecht IV 10 years ago

"For one to decide what individual deaths are good and which are bad is somewhat insane. Death is PART of life. It is not bad."-JJE007 vego91 says: - So if someone hung your mom upside down tonight by her feet and cut her throat so she could bleed to death while she was squirming around by her ankles, then ripped out her insides and cut off her extremities: would you be mad if that murderer got the same punishment as a killer who shot someone or would you want your moms murderer to pay more for the more severe crime? We have juries to decide this sort of degree in court so why can't people decide it for animals as well (well I should clarify- "non humans")

Nice, vego91...Up-thread you said you were glad that the -omnivores- were making your point for you. Now, you make their point. Comparing a sadistic murderer to a powerless worker doing his/her job is priceless silliness. You're giving ammunition, so to speak, to your enemies when you replace education with tactical assaults on omnivores.

FYI- In my book, murder is murder. It is a human killing a human and does not apply to non-humans. I'm fine with agreeing to disagree on that point. I am not fine with you giving animals the rights we reserve for humans. I'm fine with your choice of religion but an Inquisition is an Inquisition and will not be tolerated.

It is a bizarre path you have decided to take. I think that aligning yourself so totally with the beasts of the fields is indicative of a gross misunderstanding of the nature of life. I applaud your decisive plan to separate yourselves from nature and evolve into a different species from the rest of us. I would encourage you to do it in your own space and time...on another planet would be good. As you can see and demonstrate, people can't even treat other humans humanely. So...Run AWAY!

Oh, and my mom is dead. She was killed by a deer in the headlights. We sprinkled her remains on a soybean field near Lawrence. Hope you enjoyed your tofurkey, this year!~) Now, I must go work on the new human-engineered meat-friendly crop I've been designing. I'll soon be harvesting and selling a tasty weed called "Sens of Humour". I'm truly sorry that I had to displace and disrupt the lives of countless rats, mice, voles, foxes, coyotes, deer, rabbits, squirrels, fish, turtles, salamanders, frogs, opossum, raccoons, insects, nematodes, turkeys, eastern meadowlarks, dicksissels, grasshopper sparrows, arachnids, etcetera. I think some of them eventually succumbed to the stress of it all and were eaten by feral pigs that were liberated from a hog operation down the road. Sens of Humour! ...coming to a planet near YOU!~)

jafs 10 years ago

I will try to express my thoughts/feelings on this subject carefully - please do not attack me personally for any of them.

While PETA may be a bit extreme in their views/actions, I think their main point is admirable and bears consideration. Human beings seem to be more destructive and more thoughtlessly destructive than other animal species. Hunting for sport is clearly not any sort of "fair fight". The cruelty that we practice on other humans as well as animals is horrifying. Our actions have the potential to affect the environment (and already have) in significantly damaging ways. We seem to think that if we have the power to do something, we have the right to do it, regardless of how it may affect others.

If you love your pets, why doesn't that feeling translate to other animals as well? I'm sure that many carnivores would be horrified at the idea of eating their dog/cat/etc. Since we can have that kind of affectionate bond with pets, it seems to me natural to have it with other species as well.

It may be part of the natural world that there are predators and prey, but as human beings we also have a choice about how we act. It is perfectly possible to eat a vegetarian diet and be healthy - in fact, there are a number of diseases/illnesses that meat eaters are subject to which vegetarians are not. The main issues for vegetarians are getting complete protein and vitamin B12.

I have been a vegetarian for over 20 years - I feel better now than I did then and am quite healthy.

Please consider the effect of your actions on other humans, animals, and the environment.

Thank you.

vego91 10 years ago

Das- I have never used the word holier and never would. I ate meat at one point in my life but I realized that it wouldn't be fair to eat a cow then go try to save one the next day (being a Biologist). I didn't want to be a hypocrite and I didn't see how that murder was doing me any good. End of story. I didn't need anyone to convince me of this. I was able to sympathize with other species. I did it on my own with people like you laughing at me the whole way. I was made fun of for it even though I never tried 'turning' other people veg. I would simply order a meal and ask for it without meat and the comments would come flying. I chose a way of life and didn't impose it on anyone else and still took ridicule for it. So it doesn't matter now whether I speak up for animals or keep to myself with you people. You will attack me still so why not try to at least get the facts out there and try to get people to think a little bit. Some people don't have compassion and must see a slaughterhouse to switch sides and that's fine too. At least they were brave and open-minded enough to find out the facts first I think the problem is that most people care about convenience and so comes tolerance. (Ignorance is bliss) Most people don't want to think about how the meat got on their plate, they just want it fast and cheap. Convenience is the American way. Why would anyone want to have to spend a little more money to eat healthier. Why would anyone want to do research when they have Christmas presents to buy, shows to watch, and lives to live. I went a long time actually before I ever spoke out for PETA and animals. I did do what JJ told me to do. I lived a quiet life not eating meat and not wearing fur but how can I sit by now when I see someone wearing a $10,000 fur when I know they have no clue what happened to that animal. I feel obligated to tell them about fur farms. Since I started speaking out I have been able to show people the truth and many are now vegetarians and vegans. Does that make me holy? No of course not. Does it make me proud? Yes of course. Not for myself though, I feel good knowing those animals won't be killed. cont...

vego91 10 years ago

Change usually occurs with a small group working really hard at something. PETA is the minority so of course you think they are bad. It is different. It's not what you do and so you ridicule. PETA has no choice in this day and age to be extreme- Americans won't stop on the street or leave the channel unless something catches their eye. Would you read an article that's titled "Dog Fighting" or an article showing a picture of a bloodied up Pit Bull that reads "NFL star convicted". People sure care about Vick. I don't understand the leap from dog to cow. Dogs are only domesticated because the mighty and powerful human being said so. Just because something is legal now doesn't make it right. Slavery was acceptable for how long people! Women didn't have rights for how long! Just because 'the courts' says something is legal, such as throwing a pig onto a concrete floor to kill it, doesn't make it humane or just.

vego91 10 years ago

JJ- If you've never seen footage of the barbaric ways in which animals are killed then your comment doesn't hold much 'meat'. Were these men doing their job? And this meat was kosher no less.
"I am not fine with you giving animals the rights we reserve for humans." - Here we go again with the mighty and powerful HOMO SAPIEN. Oh God I'm so sorry I didn't realize this was your planet.

"You need to first take a breath, then SHUT Up! What an annoying diatribe of patooey. Who exactly do you think you are?" - I am one of many species on this planet co-existing in an ecosystem. I'm certainly not the ruler of this land. I am not a dominator of all things 'inferior' to the mighty human. I am not the smartest creature to walk this earth. I believe there are species as intelligent as humans- like orcas. I do not believe that just because I have the power to control something that I should.

vego91 10 years ago

Bob you make the perfect point that if I wrote a fluffy comment it would be buried into the archives. Don't you think it was my point to get people talking. I love that it was being archived until now. You are all talking and that's the first step. If you're still reading then that's great. I encourage people to read up on what PETAs doing now to see if I'm full of it. I don't care what you think of me. I hope this forum goes on for days. How can change occur if people don't talk. More and more people are turning veg and it's a victory for animals, not for me or PETA. I am not in this fight for myself, why on earth would I want people to call me names? This is not for me. I don't understand why anyone would think this was for my own agenda. The agenda is animal welfare. If there weren't small minorities to speak up who knows where this world would be right now. Racism, Sexism, speciesism- working on that last one. If you want a good documentary that's not as hardcore as the PETA one- I encourage you to go see Earthlings with Joaquin Phoenix. It's the facts but in a more calm manner.

Flap Doodle 10 years ago

We need to consult Dr. Lecter on this question, TOB.

vego91 10 years ago

Every movement needs a leader and I think Ingrid is doing a great job. You need one person that has dedicated their entire lives. If Ingrid wasn't sterilized you would call her a hypocrite for bringing a child into a world as bad as she claims it to be. If she had material things in her apartment you would accuse her of being money hungry as well. She is the perfect leader because she cares about this cause more than anything and has made her life such that you cannot call her a hypocrite. I cannot be Ingrid but I admire what she has done. I do have a dog, I rescued her from a pound but some people think you shouldn't have pets. There's lots of areas of grey that the majority will jump all over. Ingrid is not leading that life though to make a point. She really just is that passionate about the cause I believe. She really has nothing in her apartment. She sees no point in material objects. And she does have a point. We do live in a country of debt so how can one criticize her for living that way. She gets dressed everyday, uses cleaning products and toiletries, goes to work- and can know without a doubt that no animals were harmed by what she used or wore that day. She's just conscious and I see nothing wrong with that. She will die a leader who lots of people looked up to and who started a great movement. Most people will die with houses full of 'stuff' but not many people will remember them. They will have left no footprint on the planet. I wish Ingrid the best of luck especially knowing what she must put up with on a daily basis. I got hammered just on this forum, I can't imagine what she goes through.

vego91 10 years ago

Bob- your posts always make me laugh. Are you a comedian? (I'm being serious here, do you do shows somewhere?)

Frederic Gutknecht IV 10 years ago

vego91 says: JJ- If you've never seen footage of the barbaric ways in which animals are killed then your comment doesn't hold much 'meat'. Were these men doing their job? And this meat was kosher no less.

Yes, I have. In fact I've seen this particular video before. And it's probably a bit more brutal looking because it IS Kosher and involves "ritual slaughter". Yes. The men are doing their job. What do you think they are doing? Taking a holiday in France?~) Note that I've also killed and "processed" many animals that I've eaten. Do my comments now have a bit of meat to them? I don't believe you'll think so but feel free to correct me.

JJE007- "I am not fine with you giving animals the rights we reserve for humans." vego91- Here we go again with the mighty and powerful homo sapien. Oh God I'm so sorry I didn't realize this was your planet.

It's our planet. It's not yours. It's not mine. It's not the predator's. It's not the prey's. We coexist, whether we like it or not. I get to be an omnivore and you get to be a "vegetarian" and believe me, I've used the same "Here we go again with the mighty and powerful homo sapien" line before. I used epithets every time I heard a hunter's gunfire as I hiked the fall and winter woods. I got over what was my "holier than thou" attitude and found that I felt to be more a part of nature as a hunter. Do you really believe that you show no such "holier than thou" attitude? Most people do, don't you think? Are you really so different from everyone else?

While you're in an educative mood. Are you or is PETA as concerned about invertebrates as you/they are about vertebrates, or is it about pain traveling up the spinal column and the presumed mental torture exacted by humyns upon more complex animals? How far though the animal kingdom does your anthropomorphism go?

vego91 10 years ago

I'm a Biologist. I've studied shrimp, salamanders, dolphins, periwinkles, and salmon. And I've done so in methods never hurting the species. I am absolutely concerned with animals that don't have a spine. My point is we are all connected in the web of life. I see no point in kiling a spider because it's in my way or spraying an ant. I feel they all have purpose.

Thanks for saying we coexist. I'm sure some animals would beg to differ. They'd like to if left alone I'm sure.

Logan5 10 years ago

What about the rights of vegtables? Ever poke holes in a potato and listen to it scream in the microwave?

Logan5 10 years ago

Remember the old "I brake for animals" bumper stickers? Once I saw one on a pick-up that also said underneath it, "but I gas it for cats".

vego91 10 years ago

Bob- Just recently watched When the leaves blow away (unquote)

Pilgrim- Actually I love that everyone is talking and I'm not surprised by the attitude of most, things don't change overnight. Good thing PETA will be here long after I'm dead.

Das- Have you been to the schools? I don't think making generalizations like "American's are overweight, kids are bratty nowadays, and Americans are materialistic are too far fetched.

PETA has to get the attention of the people somehow. It's just the era in which we live in now. Sometimes you have to go over the top to get people to listen. I believe in PETA and the work they've done since 1980. There's so much violence, hate, and gore on t.v as it is, why on earth would PETAs actions shock me?

And lastly Das- I don't expect you to care about my life. The point was that someone told me to keep my opinion to myself but even when I did it didn't matter so why not speak up now.

riverdrifter 10 years ago

At long last, a full-blown Petaphile/veg to tangle with but it's coming up on 3pm. Time to go deer hunting!


Flap Doodle 10 years ago

There was an interesting little side-step back in the thread when vego said "I've studied shrimp, salamanders, dolphins, periwinkles, and salmon. And I've done so in methods never hurting the species." How many individual shrimp, salamanders, and periwinkles have you done to death? Did you explain to them that this was for the good of the greater number?

vego91 10 years ago

If you don't believe me then here is a doctor that attended MIT and Cornell and who was raised on a dairy farm, explaining why meat and dairy are the most unhealthy things you can put in your body. You'll find out all about the protein you are killing yourselves with. Great book. Real research. And the credibility so many in this forum are worried about.

jafs 10 years ago


I would disagree with some of your contentions.

I know of no other species on the planet which has had the destructive impact of human beings. No other animals have built and used an atomic bomb, for example. No other animals have managed to destroy entire species. Other animals need far fewer resources and create far less waste and pollution. While there is violence in nature, it is far more limited than among humans - most of the fighting, etc. among animals seems to be about territory and food. Human beings manage to torture/fight/kill for abstract concepts like Christianity (the Inquisition), just one example. Fights for dominance are usually between two strong males with roughly equal chances. While there may be a disparity between predators and prey, it seems to me that prey in the wild have a better chance than when hunted by humans with advanced technology.

But I appreciate the tone of your response - I am interested in reasonable debate.

vego91 10 years ago

JJ- If you think that the men in that video were doing their jobs as you said then I must add: Rules for Kosher butchering requires minimal suffering The use of electric prods on immobilized animals is a violation Inverting frightened animals for the slaughterers convenience is a violation Kosher animals are not to be touched until the bleeding stops so ripping the trachea and esophagi from their throats is another violation Kosher is suppose to be clean yet dumping live cows with their insides spewing out of them onto dirty blood drenched floors is not clean Shackling and hoisting is also a violation, nor does it coincide with the kosher way of treating animals The death is suppose to be quick and merciful

vego91 10 years ago

Blue- I will glady click on your link if you promise me Hilter isn't on this list. Cause it would mean you didn't do your homework. Hilter was put on a veg diet for health reasons by his doctor, it had nothing to do with animal welfare. So let me know if he's not on it and I'll look at your site.

The point of me posting that website was that someone earlier asked me to post a pic of myself because they thought I would look like I was starving. I wanted that person to see some healthy vegans. The person who posted it seemed young so I thought the vegan website was good since it showed singers and actors that they might relate to.

vego91 10 years ago

Three phases of truth: 1. Ridicule 2. Violent Opposition 3. Acceptance


Tom Miller 10 years ago

...compliments of blue74harley, to wit: "Have you ever heard a vegetarian tell you how vegetarians are kinder and gentler people because they care about animals? Some of them believe that their false religion has made them morally superior to non-vegetarians. In their warped minds, their vegetarianism is final proof of their moral superiority, and they feel that they have the right - and obligation - the dictate to non-vegetarians on moral grounds."

thanks, harley.

Rationalanimal 10 years ago

The majority of PETA members are liberal socialists all for abortion. The rationale being that fewer humans means less impact on the environment and animal species. Once again perverse liberal logic, kill humans but heaven forbid we offend the poor little monkey.

vego91 10 years ago

It's not about morals, it's about compassion.

How did I know the word abortion would show up on this forum. Might as well bring up the Bible now while you're at it.

Dairy is so bad for your health. The dairy industry doesn't want you to know it and so most of you don't even know what you are putting into your bodies. You think calcium good right. Protein good right. But it's more than that. The vegan diet can stand alone from a health stand point without even mentioning animal cruelty. It's just healthier for you.

I once thought that cows and pigs got to roam on a farm in a nice pasture before being slaughtered. Then I saw what kind of lives they lived before being killed. And that's not even the slaughter process. Cows born for veal are taken from their mother after a few days and tied up with rope. They cannot even turn around, see the sun, or walk on grass. They are tied so that their muscles don't develop. They are kept like this for 4 months. 4 months in a dark small box basically. Then they are slaughtered. I guess I just can't justify having a baby cow tied up for 120 days not able to move just so that someone can go to a fancy restaurant and order veal, eat half of it, then throw the rest away from being too full.

vego91 10 years ago

"Nothing will benefit human health or increase the chances for survival of life on earth as the evolution to a vegetarian diet."

-- Albert Einstein

vego91 10 years ago

This is just an article. It's about children and their health.

vego91 10 years ago

"American women have been consuming an average of two pounds of milk per day for their entire lives, yet thirty million American women have osteoporosis. Drinking milk does not prevent bone loss. Bone loss is accelerated by ingesting too much protein, and milk has been called "liquid meat."

vego91 10 years ago

According to the article from New Century Nutrition, The Great American Milk Myth, by Dr. Charles R. Attwood :

"Good bone density attained by the age of 18-25 usually lasts a lifetime for people who consume a balanced plant-based diet and remain physically active. The problem with milk and other dairy products is that they are not only rich in calcium but they are also high in protein, which has been shown to create calcium loss through the urinary tract."

acg 10 years ago

I had the biggest, juiciest bacon burger for lunch. It was so yummy. I felt not one iota of remorse for the cow or pig that died for my sammich. Only sadness that it was gone when I was finished eating it. I'm sure vego would say that I poisoned my body or some other stupid crap but we all know the truth. Chef says that vegans have tiny little vaginas all over their bodies. It's a symptom of turning into a giant pssy because you haven't had a decent meal in a while. I'm inclined to believe him. I've never met a veghead or vegan that didn't annoy me with their whiny save the animals crap. It just makes me want to punch them in the head, but they are very malnourished and my husband is always telling me not to hit whiny pssies in the head because they don't have the strength to defend themselves.

tvc 10 years ago

I am a vegetarian, and I do not like animals. I want them to go do their own thing far away from me. It is hard for me to deal with people that love their pets and eat meat.

I think it is too funny that meat eaters always feel the need to tell us what they have just eaten. I find it the equivalent of a 3rd grader calling me a doo-doo head.

acg 10 years ago

I don't like animals either tvc, that's why I eat them. I don't have pets, never have cared for having animal hair and stink in my house. BTW, you're a big doo doo head. :)

tvc 10 years ago

I originally quit eating meat for reasons other than animal rights. I don't know if animal rights would have been enough for me to quit in the beginning. However, now that they are not my food source I can extend them the same compassion as a pet. It is one thing to eat them and another to torture them. The industry is cruel, and it is hard to make any real changes because people want cheap food and the government is:well, the government.

ACG, I've got nothing but love for you, even if you ate a cow for lunch. ;)

vego91 10 years ago

"I'm sure vego would say that I poisoned my body or some other stupid crap but we all know the truth." - Okay then what is this truth you speak of? Give me your data and then I'll give you mine. "Stupid crap"- I can see already the intelligent being I am dealing with here.

"Chef says that vegans have tiny little vaginas all over their bodies. It's a symptom of turning into a giant pssy because you haven't had a decent meal in a while. I'm inclined to believe him. I've never met a veghead or vegan that didn't annoy me with their whiny save the animals crap. It just makes me want to punch them in the head, but they are very malnourished and my husband is always telling me not to hit whiny pssies in the head because they don't have the strength to defend themselves." - this doesn't even deserve a response. If you want to be funny look at Bob's comments...he knows how to do it. Your comedy is lacking. Your age/education are too obvious.

Frederic Gutknecht IV 10 years ago

It is a strange world we live in. It seems that agendas remain hidden on many fronts. PETA has goals. They may seek one goal now and another later but they have goals which remains hidden due to their current unpopularity. Hence, their mission statement is sweetly vague...but it SEEMS their goal is a stone cold rejection of natural process on one hand and an acceptance of the evils of human process on the other. That's fine. I hope they are able to jump the king and be kinged. Their checkboard anthropomorphism may one day stir masses. I doubt it but who knows? They think they know. I see what they believe. There is no arguing with zealots. I know that. There's no arguing with that. We zealots abound. vego91 is a mouthpiece for a cause. There is no arguing with a cause. It is a cause eat cause world. The lowest common denominator will rule at times. So be it but this particular movement is one of that can afford its failures, in this time. Let them starve in their current bliss. I joyously regard their fortitude. It's better than the Bush, privileged by the Bush but ignoring the bush.

May the world be an easier place to live...for all.

vego91 10 years ago

"Other animals need far fewer resources and create far less waste and pollution." Are you arguing this on a per capita or total basis?"

Das- I'm sure you are aware of the famous book Silent Spring by Rachel Carlson. Let's not forget that was written in 1962. I don't think a debate needs to be started on whether or not humans have caused more harm to the planet than non human animals.

vego91 10 years ago

In a very respectful tone I would like to ask all of what you think the agenda of PETA, and similar organizations, are? I am curious as to why the word publicity gets thrown around. I cannot speak for PETA but I can say that I do not like being called names or mocked. I would not choose a lifestyle that's more expensive, is inconvenient at times, causes me to be constantly conscious, if there was another humane and healthy way. In the age we live in it's just not possible.

Do some of you actually think PETA just wants to be in the news? They don't make up the videos. The undercover investigations are not isolated incidents. They are simply showing the public what is going on. Slaughterhouses are mainly hidden on back roads and so most people have no clue how their food got on their plate. PETA simply shows the cold hard truth. I don't see why anyone would get offended by PETA. They cannot force you to stop eating meat. They can show you the footage but it's up to you whether you care or not.

I think it's ignorant to not look into the facts before choosing a lifestyle. Let's use a drug example cause religion is, well, too obvious .. No one would choose to use drugs without reading up on them about side effects right. So why would food be any different. We have to eat, it's a huge part of our daily lives. And for this I understand you want it to be enjoyable. I get that. People can have goals and dreams but it's the everyday tasks that need to be convenient and most would like to not think too hard when it comes to something like food. But what happens when you hear that a fish is highly contaminated, do you still eat it? Whether it's about the fish, you still care enough to protect your bodies. Well, the same should hold true for dairy and meat. In the time it takes you to read 1 page of a book , 4 Americans will have a heart attack, 4 will also have either a stroke or heart failure. In 24 hours 3,000 Americans will have heart attacks.

vego91 10 years ago

I think it's so funny when people share what they've eaten, thinking it hurts my feelings or something.

When you tell me you've just eaten a Big Mac I image an obese person with grease running down their face. I imagine a fat woman with elastic pants, getting a diet coke to even it out, and reading an Atkins diet book (too those of you who know that whole story I'm laughing as I write this). I imagine the man has a big belly and probably can't keep "it" up for long. There are benefits to the vegan diet and although many of you think strength is an issue, there are secrets in the vegan diet that, sorry, your meat just can't give you. When you tell me what you've just hunted I feel sorry for you because you must have a small penis and I'm sure that must be so frustrating.

Let's all share shall we. I made miso soup and quinoa with stirfy. Miso... ummm.

Again, the 3 stages of truth are 1)ridicule 2)violent opposition 3)acceptance

Frederic Gutknecht IV 10 years ago

OK. We've seen you ridicule the pitiable omnivore. Now, when will you be moving on to violently oppressing all into acceptance?!~)

shockchalk 10 years ago

Vego..........the fact that you imagine a man with a big belly who probably can't keep "it" up for long says a lot about what you do with your time. What a pathetic loser you are!

vego91 10 years ago

Shock- good one. I must hand it to those of you who can't seem to write more than one or two sentences and must use words like "loser". Congratulations on your keen ability to compose thoughts into words. It makes it easier for me in this forum though so thank you.

shockchalk 10 years ago

Vego............Nice one or two sentance post from you. The reason it is easier for you to write is because you aren't bothered by little things like fact, truth, objectivity, or common sense. You are clueless and you contribute nothing to this forum or society in general. Keep thinking about men with big bellies who can't keep it up and you'll sway a lot of people over to your side of the issue.

jafs 10 years ago


Are you really claiming that human beings have not/are not destroying other species, ourselves, and the environment at a much greater rate than any other animal species?

One can conclude what one wishes from those facts, but they seem to be facts to me.

I would conclude that our technological growth has been much quicker than our ethical development.

Flap Doodle 10 years ago

R_I, I read that on the interwebs! It must be true!

vego91 10 years ago

While we're sharing:

Casein, a protein found in cows milk triggers cancer. Know anybody with cancer? Anyone in your family?

Know anyone with diabetes? Tell them a vegan diet can get them off their insulin.

Anyone here with high cholesterol? 50% clogged arteries? (no it's not the 80 or 90% ones that are the problem- but keep buying those lies if you want) If not for the animals, look at the vegan diet for you health. You could clear it up in only a few months.

I can see how adding 5-10 years to your life might upset you all, you probably want out as soon as possible. How could I argue with that...

vego91 10 years ago

"The reason it is easier for you to write is because you aren't bothered by little things like fact, truth, objectivity, or common sense." Shockchalk-

So what is this truth again I ask? And the common sense is what- animals should eaten? That's your common sense? Have you ever read a book in your life? Come on with these posts.... I need something to debate.

shockchalk 10 years ago

Silly little vego...........I read more in a week than you probably read in a year.

vego91 10 years ago

Shock- still waiting on those facts and truth...

vego91 10 years ago

Oh no Bob not Clooney. Yuck. We should start a new thread, strictly jokes. Any better forums on here that you know of?

vego91 10 years ago

Bob- It's turning into one. So let's just take the piss... what should we talk about?

Frederic Gutknecht IV 10 years ago

Let's talk about the sweet beauty of this TYPE of propaganda.

Does PETA demonstrate some preferential ethics here? Is PETA fair and balanced? Is all fair in vegan war?

Get on board, people. No pain - No gain. Oh, wait. I forgot. Pain is bad, horrific in fact, except for the bad guys...???

vego91 answers no arguments, but simply retorts from a playbook in a play world.

PETA is a fundamentalist, dogmatic regime. There is no arguing that fact; therefore, PETA will always be seen as a pitiable and dangerous organization.

vego91, your vituperative vehemence is a vivisectionistic violation of PETA's invective vapidity, You're fired!~) -Ingid N.

Seriously, though... Let's stick to the entertainment of our respective, and usually lame, educative attempts at raising each other's consciousness.

So what is the ultimate ethical treatment of animals? Will PETA eventually capture all carnivores and feed them tofu burgers, since they don't know any better?

Also, you present a virtue of vegetarianism for humans as a means of living a healthier and extended life. Is it the extended lifespan of humans what you're after? Why? Animals would certainly prefer it if we all were gone, right?

vego91 10 years ago

Again I ask how on earth is PETA offending anyone? You get to make babies without asking anyone, you get to pollute the earth, and yes you get to eat animals by a means of inhumane actions. Just because you aren't the ones using the electric probes or prying the animals off the trucks with a crowbar- you are still feeding that business with your money and so the cycle will not end. Does that mean PETA gives up? No, it will take lifetimes for change on a large scale to occur. If I could I would show all 'adults' at the age of 18 a slaughterhouse. Is that offensive? No, it's simply showing them the truth that most parents fail to educate them with. "Is it the extended lifespan of humans what you're after? Why? Animals would certainly prefer it if we all were gone, right?" - I have to live here too, and my child, and my children's children. Anything to make this a cleaner healthier place should be everyones concern. I don't think people are bad on a whole. I think most people just don't want to educate themselves about the truth because well the truth hurts. It's easier to ignore it. A lot of people when seen the footage do change their lives. It may not be for you but we can't win them all. I do realize that there are people like the men in the videos that are numb to inhumanity, and I realize I cannot change them. But I will not stop because I know there are some that will get the truth and want to live better. I know people that didn't care about the animal side of it but once they found out how bad meat protein and dairy was they gave it up and their health changed for the better. It's a small win for animals but in the persons mind they only cared about their health. Do I care that it went that way? In a way no because everyone won. The animals won since they aren't eating them, the food industry lost money, and the people are healthier now. It would be nice if it was all for the animals but I understand that isn't how a lot of people think.

vego91 10 years ago

Health & Food industry. Think about how large those two are. They both feed each other so of course most of you don't even know the truth about what's in that meat and dairy and how they affect you. If you get cancer then good for the health industry. If you need surgery one day, need that bypass, then they win. It's more expensive to have major surgery than if you just ate vegan. It's a simple concept, let's take sunbathing for the young ones reading this. It's 'cool' when you're young, everyone's doing it, and it makes you feel good at the time. Then you grow up and pay with bad skin or cancer. Then comes the regret and last you dish out the money to fix the damage. Well like food everyone wants to enjoy it, eat what they want and not think about the consequences, until of course later when they will have to pay. People usually think about the now and immediate pleasure. The point of this and Rachel's book is/was to show how humans act on things without fully researching the consequences. You are fed the lies that meat and dairy are good. You are bombarded with advertises like Got Milk? And sadly most people believe what's on t.v or in the magazines and so round and round we go.

I feel like this forum is coming to an end. No one has argued against the important points and so at least I got some facts out there. I know some will read up on it because most of you do care about your health or you have someone you love that you want to live long. I have had people email me since this forum so I know some lives will be changing and that's the point. It's a small change. I do not expect everyone to post comments like "wow I do care about my health and I don't want to indirectly cause animals pain." I knew what kind of posts would come up. I've been hearing your voices for a long time and some people even when given the facts still will eat that Big Mac, fries, and milk and they will end up sick. I cannot do anything about people who don't care about themselves. Nor can I do anything about people who don't care about animals. Change is occurring though and I do see it. Companies that use to sell fur don't, companies are changing the way they house their animals, grocery stores are stocking vegan options:. It's happening but it's a slow process.

If nothing else at least read China Study. For those of you who didn't feel anything when watching those videos but still care about living long and healthy lives- this book is for you. The author studied on rats so it really is a book geared to those who don't really care about the animals but do their health. For those of you obese, with diabetes, cancer, or know someone with any of those- it really could change you or their lives forever.

vego91 10 years ago

This to me- the most offensive. Let's smile at the adorable baby we're causing to grow at an abnormal speed, the baby who might get type 1 diabetes (which they'll have for life once that pancreas is eaten away), or type 2 diabetes, or later cancer.

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