Archive for Saturday, November 17, 2007

Planned Parenthood in court over criminal charges against clinics

November 17, 2007

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— Representatives for Planned Parenthood of Kansas and Mid-Missouri made their first court appearance Friday concerning a criminal complaint alleging unlawful late-term abortions and inadequate record keeping at an Overland Park clinic.

The appearance lasted just minutes and another hearing was set for Wednesday. Johnson County District Attorney Phill Kline, who filed the 107-count complaint last month against the Comprehensive Health clinic, declined comment Friday.

Planned Parenthood officials and their attorney, Pedro Irigonegaray, also did not speak to reporters. But Peter Brownlie, Planned Parenthood of Kansas and Mid-Missouri president and chief executive officer, said in a written statement that the charges are baseless.

"This is a blatant attempt to put Planned Parenthood on political trial for providing legal, safe and professional reproductive health care," Brownlie said. "We will not stand by and allow politicians to intimidate women and create more barriers to their ability to get health care."

Brownlie said it's the first time the organization has faced criminal charges.

Kline has asked for Irigonegaray and another Planned Parenthood attorney, Robert Eye, to be barred from representing the organization in the criminal case. Kline has said he intends to call the lawyers as witnesses. A hearing hasn't been held on that matter yet.

Kline, an anti-abortion Republican, started investigating Planned Parenthood in 2003 when he was Kansas attorney general. After a court battle, he eventually gained access to the Overland Park clinic's patient medical records.

Democrat Paul Morrison, the former Johnson County district attorney who defeated Kline last year and became attorney general, reviewed the records that Kline obtained and found no wrongdoing on Planned Parenthood's part.

"We fully expect the same result by the time this charade is over," Brownlie said in his statement Friday.

The charges against Planned Parenthood weren't read in court, but they consist of 23 felonies and 84 misdemeanors, according to the complaint. Among them are 29 misdemeanor counts of providing unlawful late-term abortions.

Adding to the clash is a lawsuit before the Kansas Supreme Court involving Kline, Morrison and Planned Parenthood. Neither Kline nor Planned Parenthood has discussed that case, and the documents are sealed.

Comments

Ragingbear 7 years, 4 months ago

Kline is the one that needs to get sued.

Uhlrick_Hetfield_III 7 years, 4 months ago

And he may well be if the charges prove to be false after Morrison claimed to find no evidence of a crime.

On the other hand, Morrison is the one who will look bad if even one of these allegations succeeds in a conviction.

Quite the showdown, eh?

bondmen 7 years, 4 months ago

To learn more about the charges being investigated here listen to the very same allegations of wrongdoing by "Dr." Tiller, the infamous late term abortionist in Wichita - visit http://www.kfuoam.org/ie_archive_Oct_07.htm for October 24 titled "Charges Filed Against a Kansas Abortion Clinic".

These few charges appear to be only a small sample of a vast, bloody pool of misdeeds directed at a community legally discriminated against; a community where the death penalty is strictly enforced against a miniature class of human beings known as the pre-born. By the way, our DNA proves all who read this were once brand new members of this class!

Ragingbear 7 years, 4 months ago

This from the same former AG that accused Dr. Tiller of stirring aborted fetuses into his lunch... yeah...

helenrose 7 years, 4 months ago

Planned Parenthood has also refused to obey state laws on mandatory reporting of child abuse. Several investigations are ongoing nationally, and I am spearheading one here in NY. PP was caught by Life Dynamics (lifedynamics.com), in a sting. We have hundreds of recordings of PP personell cautioning the caller not to tell how old her partner was. Thus, PP protects child predators, and those who commit incest. There is a great deal wrong with PP besides abortion.

badger 7 years, 4 months ago

Y'know, if a clinic counselor were to tell a girl, "If your partner was over (age) and you tell me, I will report him for statutory rape. It's the law, and I have to do it," that might sound a lot like 'cautioning someone not to tell how old her partner is.' But it's really more like "Letting someone know where confidentiality ends." A therapist tells a patient, "If you tell me you were involved in the commission of a crime, I have to report it." A doctor tells a patient, "If you test positive for certain diseases, I have to report you to the health department." A hospital says, "If you come in for treatment of a gunshot wound, we have to call the police." There are limits to confidentiality, and I guess I believe someone old enough to be considering abortion (yes, even 13) is old enough to be considering the legal ramifications of having her partner reported for statutory rape.

helenrose 7 years, 4 months ago

Go to the website. I have the tape right here, and I have been involved in this fo 4 years. PP had to fignt our State Senator, not a chistian, because God Forbid, they are all liars, right? Our State senator, Steve Saland, fought to have them comply with the law, and they went public with their "concern" that "privacy" would be compromised. One with common sense might think that child abuse trumps privacy. They are being investigated in Illinois, Kansas, and Pennsylvania. Were there no evidence, the grand juries of either place would not have ruled as they have. This has been covered in the news as well. Sorry your axe has been gored, but these are the facts. You are entitled to your opinion, but not to your own facts. What the hell does my (maybe) being a Christian have to do with this? Neither child abuse nor abortion is a religious issue, but especialy in the case of abortion, we rely on genetics, science, and medicine. I have debated on the subject of abortion for over 20 years, and not once did I bring religion into the discussion. Don't tell me what you THINK - tell me what you KNOW. Peace

erod0723 7 years, 4 months ago

I know that abortion will never be made illegal, because it will not stop abortions. I know that the current president has tried more than any other American leader in history to inject religion and totalitarianism into the government. I know that many of the far right anto-abortion groups are terrorists. I know that nobody has any right to dictate personal bodily rights. I know that helenrose and bondmen are wasting their time fighting a losing battle that has essentially become the christian right's last desperate hope at retaining the presidency.

helenrose 7 years, 4 months ago

Yes, erod - this president is a jerk. I am totally against his policies, esp. about the war. But Bush has NOT been a help to the prolife movement. Our "losing" battle has resulted in stats that say 70% of the US population is against abortion on demand, and this is a result of the exposure the "partial-birth" abortion procedure provided. Few knew that abortions were done so late in pregnancy, few knew that a fetus can feel pain in those months, and few people had seen the 4D ultrasound of the unborn from early pregnancy. The technology is against the pro-aborts, since when women see their children in the first trimester throught pregnance, they know that Planned Parent lied all those years claiming that it was all just a "blob of tissue", and most all of them decide against this brutal "procedure". Politics will not help us, the GOP certainly has not, but the burgeoning weight of the evidence is little by little, eroding the support of this choice to kill.

Katara 7 years, 4 months ago

HelenRose is a terrorist, plain & simple.

An excerpt from her blog. "When the Partial Birth Abortion ban was overturned by the federal court, Jennifer was interviewed, and declared it good; "Women need to have control over their bodies" she peeped.

I know where she lives, having given her kids piano lessons, and having taken some unwanted hamsters off her hands... I brought Emily, the unborn girl who had her head torn off to secure women's rights, and a sign designed by our little signmaker, Maeghan MacDougall, which said, "SHAGAN'S CHOICE".

Jen wasn't home, but the neighbors were. Cell phones were whipped out, cops called - nothing. It is important when picketing a home, not to stay in front of the targeted residence for too long... law says you have to keep moving. I know it, and so do the police... Which was fine with me. Now the neighborhood knows what Jennifer stands for- beheading.

STOPP will return with Malachi, the most effective of all signs. We will call first, to insure that she is home."

http://helenwestover.blogspot.com/

labmonkey 7 years, 4 months ago

Lets see...we have a stay of executions right now because we wonder if the chemicals used in lethal injections are "cruel and unusual punishment" for murderers, yet these same people will allow late term abortions where the baby (and that is what it is) feels pain....sounds like sound philosophical ground to me.

helenrose 7 years, 4 months ago

Dear obsevar; ever heard of Fetal Medicine? Where the unborn are operated on, given blood tranfusions and medication, and called the Second Patient? Have you read Abortion Practice by Dr. Warren Hern, abortionist, which is a "how to" guide to D& E abortions, which tears a living unborn to pieces inside the womb, removing this tortured human being piece by piece? Have you SEEN a 4d ultrasound? Which facts do YOU have that disprove MY facts? I;ll meet you anywhere for a debate, Kiddo. And I'll pay you 500 bucks if you win.

helenrose 7 years, 4 months ago

Have the intellectual integrity to PROVE that what I said is BS. Remember, there is $500 in it for you. My email is helenrose234@yahoo.com. Feel free to contact me to cement the deal.

helenrose 7 years, 4 months ago

I already posted the evidence. You think I am posting lies; yet I have offered you $500 to prove your point. Who's on the ropes here? What if I up it to $1000? Will you grow a pair then? My name is Helen Westover. I am serious. You are clearly not. You are an ideologue and a coward.

helenrose 7 years, 4 months ago

Thanks, right. But observewhatever has proven my point; he is NOT unique. If he IS "clinically insane", then so are all the other pro-aborts. I maintain that all of them must have, somewhere along the way, committed intellectual suicide. I have made that wager in public, in newspapers, for a long time. No one has taken me up on it. That's because they don't have a fact to fall on, and they know it. I tell other prolifers to never be afraid of a debate. All the pro"choicers" have is desire and magical thinking. As in; baby A - wanted. In hospital, with some sort of medical problem. He is treated to the best medicine can provide, often including surgery. And now, since they have discovered that 2nd and 3rd trimester babies can feel pain, they are anesthetized.. Baby B - same gestational age; unwanted. Is treated to Dr. Warren Hern's specialty, Dilation and Extraction; the dismemberment of a living human being, sans anesthesia. Question; what is the ontological difference between Babies A and B? There is none. You have to be insane in a certain way, to hold those two cases in your head at the same time. Normal folks would experience an uncomfortable cognitive dissonance. These people do not.

badger 7 years, 4 months ago

artichokeheart says, "I just knew the " no more wire hangers" argument would get thrown on the mix."

Why did you know that, sparky? Just because it's a logical reason to oppose the criminalization of abortion before its social causes are addressed? Or are you one of those whackjobs who think women that died at the hands of back-alley butchers got what they deserved?

I think abortion is the worst possible outcome of a pregnancy. It means the system has failed, entirely. But since the system is broken, I oppose the criminalization of abortion because if a woman goes into a legal abortion clinic, she at least has a chance of coming out alive. If she goes into an illegal one, not only does her fetus' potential life end, but her life has a good chance of ending as well. Septic shock, uterine perforation, catastrophic blood loss. Relegating women to that fate won't save their unborn children. Giving the mothers more options, fewer social stigmas, and a better chance of preventing the pregnancy in the first place will, but most of the anti-choicers don't see the merits in things like sex ed that mentions something besides abstinence, empowering women so that single motherhood ceases to hold the stigma that it does, or giving abused partners options that will get them out of their relationships with their lives and their kids.

Legal or illegal, until we address the things that spur a need for abortions to be performed, they will be. And until we address those things, I'll be a vocal and impassioned advocate for safe and legal abortion. You want me to shut up and stop supporting the right to choose? Then you find a workable solution to the problems of birth control failure, rape, birth defects, and life-threatening pregnancy complications. You fix The Big Four, and I'll join up with your side. But until you do, you'd best expect to find me among the opposition.

trinity 7 years, 4 months ago

i read some of that link katara...stinks as almost phreddiean in nature, much.

helenrose 7 years, 4 months ago

Thank you for Googling me; that was the idea. Face the Truth demonstrations are used by many pro-life organizations. When I first heard of it, I remembered an incident from childhood. I was watching tv with a dear friend of mine, Meg. We stumbled on the Nuremberg Trials. The show also showed pictures of the Jews killed in the Holocaust. My friend Meg was of mixed heritage; her mom a Methodist, her father a Jew. The shock of seeing this photos of this terrible atrocity had an indelble mark on me. But far more on Meg. She was confused about religion, ethnicity. While viewing the photos of murdered Jews stacked like wood, through her tears, Meg whispered, "These are my people!" So at twelve years old, I was honored to witness the birth of a Jew . Only when the world saw pictures of this atrocity, did it realize that the rumors were true. And on that day, I became a Zionist.
The pro-abortion movement has hidden the atrocity of abortion through semantic distortion, using the word "choice" without defining the choice, or giving both the public, and the women who go for abortion a notion of the reality. It has taken years for us to even convince folks that abortions ARE done that late. There were 2 court cases in '73: Roe v Bolton we all know; but few know that the "Roe" behind the case was told to lie and tell the court she was gang-raped. PP told Norma McCorvey they would help her in her poverty, as they suborned perjury. The companion case, Doe v Bolton received little publicity. Sandra Cano - Doe, was promised that PP and the ACLU would help her get her children back from foster homes. That case defined "health of the mother" as "..All factors; psychological, sociological, economic, and the woman's age..." as sufficient for second and third trimester abortions. Sandra is also a prolife activist now. Both Roe and Doe; crafted by PP, and conceived in perjury. Displaying the corpses of these children make the pro-aborts furious. We are ripping the veil of denial over what they really support, exposing the "dirty little secret" - these are human beings, tortured beyond belief, beheaded, dismembered, having their skulls crushed for easy delivery (See Dr.; Warren Hern, Abortion Practice for his discription of "Grasping and crushing the calvaria..." using a nifty device now know as the Hern canula. He has also testified before Congress of the discomfort he feels when he used to do Saline abortions, where salt soultion is injected into the amniotic fluid, so the baby drinks it, goes into shock after HOURS and then finally dies. When the good doctor would insert the needle, the fetus woud thrash around, trying to evade the needle. Gianna Gessen is one of the "dreaded complications" of this method; she was born alive,and now, with modest CP, still manages to be a powerful prolife speaker. Your turn - but do try to stick to the facts, even if you are a glaring example of "Factophobia".

helenrose 7 years, 4 months ago

Sorry if I got too deep for you - FACTO-PHOBIA means "Fear of Facts"... 60% of all abortions are "repeats". It is, and has been for years, being used for birth control. BTY, by not even MENTIONING what I wrote, you have proven my point - you recoil at facts. It is usless to speak to you.

badger 7 years, 4 months ago

Peddle death by abortion?

That's ludicrous, sweet cheeks. Hyperbolic language is funny, but no substitute for actual logic and reason.

Abortion won't stop until we stop the following:

  1. Unprotected sex among people who don't want to conceive.
  2. Birth control failure among people who don't want to conceive.
  3. Conception due to rape, incest, or molestation.
  4. Catastrophic birth defects.
  5. Health issues that cause a pregnancy to be dangerous to the mother.

Making it illegal will just drive it underground, where it can't be performed in safe conditions by qualified people. People who want to outlaw abortion seem to either think that illegality will prevent women from seeking abortions (it didn't before), or that women having abortions deserve what they'll get at the hands of back-alley butchers. The former smacks of naivete, the latter of judgment.

Of the causes I suggested, the first can be eliminated with full education regarding the effects and consequences of unprotected sex. The second, fourth, and fifth can be eliminated with improvements in medical science. The morning-after pill will help prevent rape victims from conceiving, and building a culture where young women can report molestation without fear of reprisal from their attacker or social condemnation will help eliminate pregnancies that result from incest or other molestation.

But right now, a girl who comes forward and says an adult molested her can face all sorts of abuse from her family and community; she may be thrown out of her home, or if her abuser is popular she may be disbelieved and harassed, and she may be accused of lying or of seducing him to get him in trouble. Girls in that situation often find themselves called sluts and whores, and accused of blaming a teacher or family friend to cover for someone else. Faced with those options, is it any wonder most girls would rather lie than accurately report the age of the man who impregnated them? And faced with a choice between a girl getting competent medical care or seeking someone who won't ask questions, is it any wonder that Planned Parenthood advises its patients on the limits of confidentiality?

Amy Heeter 7 years, 4 months ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

Amy Heeter 7 years, 4 months ago

observantone " how dare you pass judgement on someone you don't know simply because they disagree with you. What kind of ogre are you? Where are your chilren?"
I will deal with that when I deceide to have children. What about you?

Amy Heeter 7 years, 4 months ago

Oh I see you think you kow me. You don't.

a_flock_of_jayhawks 7 years, 4 months ago

helenrose writes, "Were there no evidence, the grand juries of either place would not have ruled as they have."

That's BS. A grand jury will indict a ham sandwich.

Amy Heeter 7 years, 4 months ago

Agnostick you are so "green** ". There's your sign.

mina 7 years, 4 months ago

" . . . Aquinas said that the fetus did not become a person until God infused the intellectual soul. A functioning brain is not present in the fetus until the end of the sixth month at the earliest. Not surprisingly, this is the earliest point of viability . . . Whether through serendipity or through some sort of causal connection, it now seems that the onset of a functioning nervous system with a functioning cerebral cortex and the onset of viability occur around the same time - the end of the second trimester, a time by which 99% of all abortions have already occurred. Opponents of abortion like to show sonograms fo the fetus reacting to stimuli. But all living cells have electric and automatic reactions. These are like the reactions of Terri Schiavo when she was in a permanent vegetative state. Aquinas, following Aristotle, called the early stage of fetal development vegetative life. The fetus has a face long before it has a brain. It has animation before it has a command center to be aware of its movements or to experience any reaction of pain" - Garrry Wills, LA Times, Nov. 6, 2007

BrianR 7 years, 4 months ago

"Goin' down, down, down, down, down Well, goin' down, down, down, down."

Wow, a Jeff Beck reference, sweet.

acg 7 years, 4 months ago

Wow looks like the pro-life nutjobs are out in full force today. Can't you guys ever give it a rest? I'll thank you to keep your hysterics away from my uterus.

Amy Heeter 7 years, 4 months ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

a_flock_of_jayhawks 7 years, 4 months ago

Likely more like a nightmare than a fantasy. Sorry, RT, couldn't resist. You walked right into that one.

Amy Heeter 7 years, 4 months ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

Amy Heeter 7 years, 4 months ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

Amy Heeter 7 years, 4 months ago

I don't think there is a single shister who would turn down $5000.00. Tell us thatgirl about your most important case. Do you specialize in abortion law, divorce, criminal? Oh heck I'm Mary Poppins take a spoon full of sugar.

Amy Heeter 7 years, 4 months ago

I doubt anything you say it true. I posted this on the other topic. http://www.rvap.org/pages/cyberstalking/?template=alternate I hope the person you think I am has done her best to keep an eye on you.

Amy Heeter 7 years, 4 months ago

What does that have to do with the oplanned parenthood case? I have not made fun of anyone on the forum ever. I have disagreed there is a diffrence in the normal line of thinking.

Amy Heeter 7 years, 4 months ago

Boy I sure am glad I don't need you to represent me you can't even keep a focus. We were talking about planned parenthood and if the charges levied are valid. So far you have not really posted anything that would disprove that with all your self proclaimed legal background therefore I will assume you have nothing more to say. Feel free to skip over any subsequent posts of mine in the future since it seems to trigger something in you.

helenrose 7 years, 4 months ago

From the Guttmacher Institute, research arm of PP:

Facts on Induced Abortion in the United States

05/2006

INCIDENCE OF ABORTION Nearly half of pregnancies among American women are unintended, and four in 10 of these are terminated by abortion.[1] Twenty-four percent of all pregnancies (excluding miscarriages) end in abortion.[2]

Each year, two out of every 100 women aged 1544 have an abortion; 48% of them have had at least one previous abortion.[4]

WHO HAS ABORTIONS Fifty-two percent of U.S. women obtaining abortions are younger than 25: Women aged 2024 obtain 33% of all abortions, and teenagers obtain 19%.[6]

Black women are almost four times as likely as white women to have an abortion, and Hispanic women are 2.5 times as likely.[7]

Forty-three percent of women obtaining abortions identify themselves as Protestant, and 27% as Catholic.[8]

Two-thirds of all abortions are among never-married women.[9]

Over 60% of abortions are among women who have had one or more children.[10]

On average, women give four reasons for choosing abortion. Three-fourths of women cite concern for or responsibility to other individuals; three-fourths say they cannot afford a child; three-fourths say that having a baby would interfere with work, school or the ability to care for dependents; and half say they do not want to be a single parent or are having problems with their husband or partner.[12]

CONTRACEPTIVE USE Fifty-four percent of women having abortions used a contraceptive method during the month they became pregnant. Among those women, 76% of pill users and 49% of condom users reported using their method inconsistently, while 13% of pill users and 14% of condom users reported correct use.

About half of unintended pregnancies occur among the 11% of women at risk of unintended pregnancy who did not use contraceptives in the month they became pregnant. Most of these women had practiced contraception in the past.[17]

© copyright 1996-2007, Guttmacher Institute RSS :: contact :: statement of accuracy :: privacy policy :: help

helenrose 7 years, 4 months ago

More from Guttmacher: Repeat abortion and use of primary care health services Family Planning Perspectives, Jul 1995 by Westfall, John M, Kallail, Ken J Abortion is one of the most commonly performed surgical procedures in the United States. Currently, approximately 1.5 million abortions are performed each year, and that number has remained fairly constant over the last 10 years.(1) In 1992, nearly 28% of all pregnancies were terminated by abortion.(2)

In 1990, approximately 40-50% of abortions performed in the United States were obtained by women who had had a previous abortion.(3) The repeat abortion rate has risen steadily since the landmark 1973 Roe v. Wade decision. Christopher Tietze explained the initial increase in repeat abortion as a consequence of the greatly increasing numbers of women who had ever had a first abortion.(4) In one model, he projected that repeat abortion would account for more than 55% of all abortions within 30 years of legalization.(5) Nonetheless, this steady rise in repeat procedures has caused great concern among public policymakers, abortion clinic staff, and the general public on both sides of the abortion debate. In the present climate, where abortion law and practice are hotly contested, repeat abortion is an important public health issue.

Advertisement Previous studies have described the demographic characteristics of women who obtain abortions.(6) Several studies conducted during the 1970s compared women who had an abortion for the first time with those who had had a repeat abortion.(7) Most have concluded that there are only a few differences between the two groups. Berger, for example, found that in Canada, first-abortion patients were similar to repeat-abortion patients in contraceptive practice, education level, socioeconomic status, religious affiliation and religiosity, and attitudes about sex and contraception.

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Katara 7 years, 4 months ago

helenrose, you must not have checked out the latest info from the Guttmacher Institute. It is very interesting. Perhaps you should read it.

"In 23 states, information that doctors are required to provide to women either verbally or in writing before an abortion falls short of fundamental ethical principles because it is inaccurate or irrelevant, a new nationwide Guttmacher Institute analysis of state counseling requirements finds. The counseling required by these 23 states in many cases appears to be designed more to influence rather than inform a woman's decision whether to have an abortion, for instance by exaggerating the physical or mental health risks of abortion, or by including information on certain abortion procedures that is irrelevant to most women, according to the report published in the Fall 2007 issue of the Guttmacher Policy Review." http://www.guttmacher.org/media/nr/2007/11/13/index.html

I would encourage you to read this as well.

"All 23 states require that the woman be given information about the specific abortion procedure she is about to undergo (col. 3). But in 18 of the states, the written materials include descriptions of the range of common abortion procedures (col. 4). By mandating information about a range of abortion procedures performed at various points in gestation, the materials include information nongermane to individual women. (Although the process of making a decision may take longer for some women than others, nearly nine in 10 women who have an abortion do so in the first trimester, making descriptions of abortion procedures performed later in pregnancy irrelevant to most women.)" http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/gpr/10/4/gpr100406.html

Additionally, this is interesting reading.

"An analysis of these state-developed materials demonstrates that they do not always measure up to the gold standard of informed consent. Particularly with regard to certain hot-button issues, the information presented is either out-of-date, biased or both. In some cases, the state goes so far as to include information that is patently inaccurate or incomplete, lending credence to the charge that states' abortion counseling mandates are sometimes intended less to inform women about the abortion procedure than to discourage them from seeking abortions altogether." http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/gpr/09/4/gpr090406.html

I'm sure you have no problem with the source ;)

Terry Jacobsen 7 years, 4 months ago

Americorp wrote: A fetus is not a baby.

If it's not a baby, she's not pregnant.. Fact... a woman get's preganant with a baby, not a puppy or a kitten or a gerbil. A miniature human being that allowed to live, will without a doubt grow larger, and eventually become an adult human. Call it what you want, but a fetus is a baby, the only people who don't believe that a fetus is a baby are the ones who want to rationalize away the fact that it is wrong to murder an unborn child.

helenrose 7 years, 4 months ago

No one here reads. Those excerps I posted demostrate that abortion is being used as birth control, a fact you disputed, based on nothing but a guess. Also,that is not a lack of knowlege that is causing this. Katera, you posted a total non sequitor.

Amy Heeter 7 years, 4 months ago

Stay tight inside those shoes helenrose; they must be very powerful or the pro-abortionist wouldn't want them so babdly.

Terry Jacobsen 7 years, 4 months ago

Marion.... help me out on the other thread.... who is Boss Tweed??? lol

a_flock_of_jayhawks 7 years, 4 months ago

F_U writes, "God must be very, very angry at us by now."

Yeah, and God told us that you and Helen are to blame. Sucks to be you.

MyName 7 years, 4 months ago

right_thinker says:

I do not mean to be condescending, and you may already realize this, but you're dealing with some extremely far-left loons...

Pot, meet Kettle.

Katara 7 years, 4 months ago

helenrose says:

No one here reads. Those excerps I posted demostrate that abortion is being used as birth control, a fact you disputed, based on nothing but a guess. Also,that is not a lack of knowlege that is causing this. Katera, you posted a total non sequitor. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ You obviously didn't read the links or you would have realized what they say about your facts and how they are inaccurate & misleading. Did you get the part about informed choice & how what you claim are facts violate that basic concept? It is a complete shame that people like you would rather incorrect information be given out just to promote your idea of how the world should work.

Also the outdated links (data from 10 years ago when more recent is available?) you provide don't necessarily say what you claim it does. I noticed that you conveniently left out the links to your info so that others may not read the article themselves.

Agnostick, I think you would find this one interesting.

"We know, and the new evidence confirms yet again, that the best way to make abortion less necessary is to help women avoid unwanted pregnancies in the first place. And we know that the crucial first step in making abortion safer is to legalize the procedure, ensuring that it is performed by skilled providers under the best possible conditions. It's high time for policymakers worldwide to renew their commitment to women's health by addressing these crucial issues." - Dr. Sharon Camp, president and CEO of the Guttmacher Institute

"The number of induced abortions worldwide declined from nearly 46 million to under 42 million between 1995 and 2003. Abortion rates fell most significantly in Eastern Europe, a trend that corresponds with substantially increased contraceptive use in the region, according to "Induced Abortion: Rates and Trends Worldwide," a new report by the Guttmacher Institute and the World Health Organization (WHO) published in the 13 October 2007 issue of The Lancet." http://www.guttmacher.org/media/nr/2007/10/11/index.html

Katara 7 years, 4 months ago

Summers_Eve (Anonymous) says:

Enjoying watching liberals on this site engage in the typical thuggery M/O to silence the oppostion.

Loose cannons. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Wouldn't thuggery imply physical violence? Who is it again who shoots doctors & bombs clinics?

Loose cannons, indeed.

Godot 7 years, 4 months ago

Technical violations of the law are not subject to prosecution in Kansas, haven't you heard?

Katara 7 years, 4 months ago

I don't believe right_thinker understands what the procedure actually covers.

"Therapeutic abortion is defined as the termination of pregnancy before fetal viability in order to preserve maternal health. In its broadest definition, therapeutic abortion can be performed to (1) save the life of the mother, (2) preserve the health of the mother, (3) terminate a pregnancy that would result in the birth of a child with defects incompatible with life or associated with significant morbidity, (4) terminate a nonviable pregnancy, or *(5) selectively reduce a multifetal pregnancy." (**** emphasis mine) http://www.emedicine.com/med/topic3311.htm

Do you think doctors let a fetus that has died in utero just stay there forever?

What can happen when women take fertility drugs? It isn't just one egg that is produced & fertilized.

Anaencephaly? Major organs on the outside of the body? Chromosomal anomalies? I won't link to any pictures. Most are not very pleasant.

It is downright amazing what medicine can do but it does not have all the cures.

If you make abortion illegal, you make these necessary medical procedures illegal. Every situation is not just black & white. That is one of the reasons why the law is written as it is now.

You, right-thinker (although I think it is more for your trollish amusement rather than honest belief that you post about this), helenrose & others of like mind want to mislead people to believe that there is a perfectly formed little baby in every pregnant woman's belly (just like the baby dolls little girls play with) and that pregnant women just wake up one day & decide that their jeans don't fit anymore so they trot off to the local family planning clinic to have an abortion. That is, until some person who obviously knows what is best for everyone in all circumstances, convinces them otherwise.

helenrose 7 years, 4 months ago

Remember Baby A and Baby B? What kind of distortion calls the wanted one a "BABY" and the unwanted one a depersonalized "Fetus"? Nothing about the "entity"if you prefer, but about the opinions and desires of those who have power over he/she. Why is A a "patient", and B, ripped to pieces or poisoned by saline, a disposable "fetus", which BTY only means "offspring" and before abortion, was understood as a phase in human development, as is infant, childhood, adolescent , and adult. This is "magical Thinking" - as the Queen in Alice in Wonderland said, "Words mean what I WANT them to mean, and nothing more". Like typical narcissists, the world is what you desire it to be and nothing more. You have no answer to this question, which is why you throw anything at the wall, hoping it will stick. Until you can deal with this very real question, nothing you post has much meaning at all.

a_flock_of_jayhawks 7 years, 4 months ago

RT writes, "Who on this board would consider ripping a living baby out of a womb physical violence? Apparently not the politically motivated looney left.

My body, my choice, right? Riiiiight. Idiots."

My gosh, and who would consider ripping out tonsils physical violence? Stop the madness!

Maybe we need to make ripping out tonsils against the law, whether someone wants or needs to do it. Maybe you can make a sign with a picture of two tonsils and name each of them so that you can use them to picket outside hospitals and clinics.

HelenBrown 7 years, 4 months ago

Just for the sake of the record. People giving up does not make the loons correct in their stance it just makes for pointless debate.

HelenBrown 7 years, 4 months ago

You are the fake here using adhomien attacks on others when you cannot deend your stance with any logical response. CJ online all over again.

HelenBrown 7 years, 4 months ago

I'm of the idea helenrose is for real since she has supplied you with her blogs and other information. As one who has been misassociated I can see the problem lies in the heads of others.

helenrose 7 years, 4 months ago

I give up. This is my last post. You know how to reach me. C ya

helenrose 7 years, 4 months ago

"terrorists" kill. What a handy way to dismiss what you can't prove. I and my organization are against killing. You are for it. Answer the question without the ad hominuims.

a_flock_of_jayhawks 7 years, 4 months ago

helenrose writes, ""terrorists" kill."

And finance killing. And train the killers. And set up an environment that encourages the killing "for the cause" to occur. And use the threat of killing as a way to intimidate others. Etcetera.

If you find yourself in these circumstances, then people are correct in labeling you as such. By your logic, OBL is not a terrorist since we cannot prove that he actually killed. Good luck with that argument.

Katara 7 years, 4 months ago

Helenrose, when you ran for office, why wouldn't you provide any info on where you stand?

It seems very strange that such an outspoken person such as yourself would be silent on the matter. http://www.vote-smart.org/npat.php?can_id=69201

It is very, very strange that you would copy & paste your "story" onto this blog, word for word from an extremist pro-life website. An "article" you wrote in 2002 even! http://www.christiangallery.com/westover.htm

Hmmm... you are so much more well spoken on your actual website. I'd even say eloquent in your writing style. Your other blogs sound so different from what you present here. http://www.mhvperspective.com/stopp/ http://blog.360.yahoo.com/blog-8r60PQU5fqrKu3Oy5Mr0zJjXLdU-?cq=1&l=1&u=5&mx=45&lmt=5

You sound so much more like another poster that post here pretty darn frequently.

Artichokeheart, stop playing games on LJW. It is identity theft when you use another person's name & attempt to represent yourself as that person. Identity theft is a crime even if you agree with that person's general point of view on a subject.

Just please stop. It does you no good and makes you look like a fool.

a_flock_of_jayhawks 7 years, 4 months ago

right_thinker (Anonymous) says:

"Tonsils likened to a fetus. Wow, just wow!!"

It is a medical procedure, one which is personal, legal, and regulated by the federal and state government. Made your head spin? I think you still want to name the tonsils and make a poster.

helenrose 7 years, 4 months ago

Katera; that's me, all right.
I missed the deadline for that explication of my views. I ran against Joel Miller for the sole purpose of exposing PP's deliberate refusal to report rape and incest. Now, Joel and I are working together to investigate Mid-Hudson PP. I ran as a conservative, for lower school taxes and in favor of Charter Schools for NY.

a_flock_of_jayhawks 7 years, 4 months ago

helenrose writes,

"I missed the deadline for that explication of my views. I ran against Joel Miller for the sole purpose of exposing PP's deliberate refusal to report rape and incest. Now, Joel and I are working together to investigate Mid-Hudson PP. I ran as a conservative, for lower school taxes and in favor of Charter Schools for NY."

So, it wasn't important enough to explain to those who might vote for you. Rape and incest? That's a red herring and you know it. It is a method for frustrating those who are not aligned with your true cause.

helenrose 7 years, 4 months ago

Observone; especially read the post (a recent one) where I discuss my encounter with Willa Frieband of PP.

Katara 7 years, 4 months ago

helenrose (Anonymous) says:

Katera; that's me, all right. I missed the deadline for that explication of my views. I ran against Joel Miller for the sole purpose of exposing PP's deliberate refusal to report rape and incest. Now, Joel and I are working together to investigate Mid-Hudson PP. I ran as a conservative, for lower school taxes and in favor of Charter Schools for NY. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Google is a nice thing, isn't it? The interesting thing about Google is that when there are a few hits on the sites, it bumps them up on the search. The 2 sites below are in the top 5 positions & they were not approximately 2 hours ago. http://www.ourcampaigns.com/CandidateDetail.html?CandidateID=100401 http://www.vote-usa.org/Intro.aspx?Id=NYWestoverHelen

Does anyone else find it strange that when a question is presented to helenrose or when someone questions her "credentials", the info miraculously is bumped into the top searches on Google after she answers?

You are not the real Helen Westover. Stop playing on the internet.

helenrose 7 years, 4 months ago

I'm flattered that you believe that I'm too dim to be Helen Westover! Below is an email sent to me by American Life League: Jim Sedlak and I started Stop Planned Parenthood back in "85. Aside from giving you my fingerprints, I don't know what else to tell you. This is hilarious. The easiest way I think is to email me at helenrose234@yaoo.com, and allow me to answer you. BTY - I got 50 K for that arrest from the town of Poughkeepsie.

Helen,

Jim just gave me your email address, so I can send my statutory rape research to you. Here are the few incidents I found. Lots of pages online talk about it, but very few actually have documented complaints or investigations. Let me know if you have any questions.

Have a great Thanksgiving!

Andrew Flusche Staff Attorney American Life League 540.659.7900

Actual incidents

Warren County, OH

* Denise Fairbanks
* "The suit alleges that the father of a teenage girl entered the Planned Parenthood facility in Warren County in November 2004, seeking an abortion for the girl to cover up his sexual abuse of the teen and the resulting pregnancy." 
* http://www.onenewsnow.com/2007/05/planned_parenthood_named_as_de.php

Hamilton County, OH

* Jane Roe
* 13-year-old 
* Baby killed on March 30, 2004
* Girl's 21-year-old boyfriend paid for abortion with his credit card, claiming to be girl's stepbrother
* Ohio First District Court of Appeals overturned order for Planned Parenthood to release records of other coverups. 
* http://www.lifenews.com/state2437.html

San Francisco, CA

* Unknown 11-year-old
* http://www.dawneden.com/2005/12/planned-parenthood-boasts-it-covered.html

Investigations

Indiana

* Attorney General Steve Carter
* Used Medicaid Fraud Control Unit to obtain records from Planned Parenthood 
* Planned Parenthood fought back with a lawsuit: http://www.kaisernetwork.org/daily_reports/rep_index.cfm?DR_ID=28699

Kansas

* Johnson County
* Grand jury convened to investigate Planned Parenthood Overland Park
* http://www.kansascity.com/news/breaking_news/story/354347.html

helenrose 7 years, 4 months ago

Poor Artichoke heart!! I'm doing my best to preserve your integrity! Tell me more about yourself, so I can figure out why they think you are me.

helenrose 7 years, 4 months ago

Artichoke; You have gained fame having been posted on my Yahoo 360 Blog; To get there, google Helen westover yahoo 360

Katara 7 years, 4 months ago

helenrose,

Anyone can sign up for a Yahoo 360 account. That is one of the problems with it. There is no verification of anyone's actual identity.

Eh, you go on pretending to be someone else. I guess it is no skin off my back. You are the one who gets to deal with the consequences of it.

helenrose 7 years, 4 months ago

Ok - you have pushed it; call me at 845-229-2977.

helenrose 7 years, 4 months ago

Call 845-229-2977

Then you will have to deal with the consequences of that call. If you'd prefer, just leave a message. Otherwise,LET'S talk, OK? What do you have to lose? Happy Thanksgiving to all of you;. Helen Westover, Hyde Park, NY 12603

pace 7 years, 4 months ago

Well at least we aren't talking about Kline. Kansas has a lot to answer for, letting that weasel get his hands on women's medical histories. Kline is a poor attorney. He and his cronies used their political positions to further their ego driven religious cult goo goo brand of oppression. They betrayed the trust of the offices. He does almost nothing else but his personal stick. He had a lot of jobs to do and did almost none of them. He is serving Johnson county with the same fervor. Kansas Consumer rights took such a beating during his office that it was like he unlocked the doors to the elderly and poor homes so his friends would not have to bother kicking them in.

Katara 7 years, 4 months ago

helenrose (Anonymous) says:

Call 845-229-2977

Then you will have to deal with the consequences of that call. If you'd prefer, just leave a message. Otherwise,LET'S talk, OK? What do you have to lose? Happy Thanksgiving to all of you;. Helen Westover, Hyde Park, NY 12603 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "I know where she lives, having given her kids piano lessons, and having taken some unwanted hamsters off her hands: I brought Emily, the unborn girl who had her head torn off to secure women's rights, and a sign designed by our little signmaker, Maeghan MacDougall, which said, "shagan's choice".

Jen wasn't home, but the neighbors were. Cell phones were whipped out, cops called - nothing. It is important when picketing a home, not to stay in front of the targeted residence for too long: law says you have to keep moving. I know it, and so do the police: " http://helenwestover.blogspot.com/

Thanks, but no thanks. I think it is pretty clear what the resulting consequences would be ...

HelenBrown 7 years, 4 months ago

No I don't bother to speak to those with closed minds and vile attitudes. Feel free to keep talking to your tiny peer group.

Katara 7 years, 4 months ago

Agnostick (Anonymous) says:

HelenBrown, care to discuss any of my points in this thread? As Katara pointed out, even Guttmacher agrees with me.

As long as emotion and narcissism supplant logic and strategy, the number of abortions performed annually will remain more or less constant.

Agnostick agnostick@excite.com http://www.uscentrist.org http://www.americanplan.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Neither of the Helens seemed to be interested in addressing my 11/20 10:59pm post, either, Agnostick. I guess both are fact-o-phobic.

Americorps, you forgot Helen Wheels!

Amy Heeter 7 years, 4 months ago

You people are an extreme joke. Simply because someone deceides you are not worth the effort you automatically try to turn it around and say they really must agree with you. How desperate is that. I sure hope you all get over yourselves real soon now.

gr 7 years, 4 months ago

"we are right, and you are wrong - deal with it."

Are you the energizer bunny?

Amy Heeter 7 years, 4 months ago

That has what to do with this? So your answer is to steralize the population? Or is it to breed only the best DNA carriers? Sounds like Hitler to me. I think Helenrose is right about you and a few others. I am glad to know I live in a country where people like you will never see your vision come to be and people like Helenrose will be there to fight against you.

Amy Heeter 7 years, 4 months ago

Nope just giving them a taste of their own medicine.

gr 7 years, 4 months ago

"P.P.S. The only way to reduce abortion is to reduce the number of unwanted pregnancies. No other strategy will work." -Ag

P.P.P.S The only way to reduce the number of unwanted pregnancies is to eliminate humans.

Amy Heeter 7 years, 4 months ago

Imagine a day when all children will be valued.

Rationalanimal 7 years, 4 months ago

I think a mistake a lot of fetuses make is to think the Planned Parenthood staff is their friend.

Amy Heeter 7 years, 4 months ago

"Sweetie, I always skip your posts unless you direct a question at me, which you did, a few times in this thread. Talk about a lack of focus. If you don't want me continually calling you out than stop addressing me."

I don't recall addressing you. Are you slipping up?

Amy Heeter 7 years, 4 months ago

13 years olds should not be on myspace it is a web site violation.

ForThePeople 7 years, 4 months ago

Anonymous user

artichokeheart (Anonymous) says:

13 years olds should not be on myspace it is a web site violation.

It should be a violation for morons too!

gr 7 years, 4 months ago

Conclusions?:

Full grown women aren't allowed to use MySpace.

Topeka High students aren't allowed to use MySpace.

Full grown women must use their real names and cannot protect their identities.

helenrose 7 years, 4 months ago

Hi, again. I'm still waiting for an answer to my major question; let's try once again. What's the ontological difference between Baby A, and Baby B? No red herrings. No distractions. Just answer the question, and then we can go on to other things.

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