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Archive for Wednesday, November 7, 2007

Local fight promised against SLT in wetlands

Environmentalists say federal decision hasn’t lessened their resolve

November 7, 2007

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Battle for Baker Wetlands begins

The Battle for the Baker Wetlands is about to begin. A federal decision paves the way to finally fund the completion of the South Lawrence Trafficway - but it may also open the door to litigation. Enlarge video

South Lawrence Trafficway: 32nd and 42nd St. options

South Lawrence Trafficway: 32nd and 42nd St. options

Let the trench-digging begin.

One day after federal regulators took a major step in approving a project to build the South Lawrence Trafficway through the Baker Wetlands, preparations already were under way Wednesday to convert the wetlands into a battleground.

"I can tell you that the environmental community and the Haskell community are as committed as ever to protecting the wetlands and not losing one square inch of the wetlands to highway construction," said Bob Eye, a Lawrence resident who serves as an attorney for the Wetlands Preservation Organization.

Threats of a lawsuit over the decision by the Federal Highway Administration to allow a 32nd Street route for the uncompleted bypass project are not a surprise. Eye and his group successfully halted the project in federal court in the 1990s.

"You'd have to be foolish to think that a lawsuit won't be filed," said Douglas County Commissioner Bob Johnson, a supporter of completing the road through the wetlands.

But Johnson said the Federal Highway Administration's rulings this week bolster the project's legal standing. The decision represents another federal agency that believes completing the road through the wetlands is the most "prudent and feasible" option available. In 2003, the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers also reached that conclusion.

Technically, the Federal Highway Administration took two actions this week. First, the department agreed to adopt the Environmental Impact Statement that was approved by the Corps of Engineers in 2003. It looks at the environmental impact the road would have on adjacent property. Regulators also adopted a report called a 4(f) evaluation, which looks at whether the road would affect the historical and cultural value of adjacent property.

Both reports found that the wetland route - known as a 32nd Street alignment - was better than a 42nd Street route that would avoid the wetlands by going south of the Wakarusa River.

Support for route

Among the reasons the regulators gave for supporting the wetland route:

¢ The wetland route does the best job of routing regional traffic around the city and taking some local traffic off of streets such as 23rd and 31st streets and Haskell Avenue. In total, the report estimates that the 32nd Street route will result in 240 fewer vehicle accidents during a 20-year period than the 42nd Street route.

¢ The wetland route will cost less to construct. The 32nd Street route is estimated to cost $147.9 million to complete. The 42nd Street option is estimated at $166.9 million.

¢ Traffic on Haskell Avenue will increase significantly if the road is built south of the Wakarusa River. The report estimates - based on traffic models - that traffic on Haskell would be 4,200 cars per day greater with a 42nd Street route than a 32nd Street route.

¢ The 32nd Street route - the route that would run the road through the wetlands - would actually provide a net benefit to the wetlands area. That's because state transportation leaders already have committed to do a significant mitigation project if the road is built on 32nd Street.

The package includes moving Haskell Avenue east and Louisiana Street west from their current locations to provide a natural buffer area for the wetlands. The buffer area would be converted into man-made wetlands. The buffer area also would house a 10,000-square-foot wetland and educational center run by Baker University. Baker also would be provided an annuity designed to fund future maintenance of the wetlands. Campgrounds and parking sites to make the wetlands more accessible also would be located in the buffer area.

The project also includes noise walls designed to shelter the wetlands from the road.

Opponents not happy

The mitigation package has not impressed opponents of the project. Michael Caron, executive director of the Save the Wakarusa Wetlands Organization, said the mitigation package won't make up for having multiple lanes of traffic run through the environmentally sensitive area. He said there will be too much light, noise, air and water pollution from the project.

"There will still be some life left in the wetlands, but it will be the equivalent of pigeons, rats and cockroaches that survive any disaster," Caron said.

Eye said he's confident his group will find several legal arguments to make to challenge the Federal Highway's rulings. The main one, he said, is that the regulators didn't make a good-faith effort to identify a prudent route south of the Wakarusa River. Eye contends the 42nd Street route was chosen by regulators to study because they knew it wouldn't compare well to the 32nd Street route.

"It was an intellectually dishonest process," Eye said.

Doug Hecox, a spokesman with the Federal Highway Administration, said that wasn't accurate.

"It is a difficult process, and we know there will be a number of people who disagree with the conclusion," Hecox said. "But we want them to understand that it is not a conclusion that was arrived at lightly."

Lawmakers' praise

The rulings were drawing praise from several members of the state's congressional delegation. U.S. Sens. Pat Roberts and Sam Brownback and Rep. Todd Tiahrt released a joint statement Wednesday expressing optimism that the project could begin moving forward again.

They said the project "is critical for safety and the economic development of the Kansas Technology Corridor. We must look to the future and make this investment to help create the bioscience and high-tech corridor from Manhattan to Topeka to Lawrence to Kansas City."

The federal support is expected to be critical for the project. Once the Federal Highway Administration issues the final Record of Decision - expected to happen in about 30 days - the project will become eligible for federal funding. Federal and state funding - which likely will be sought as part of a new comprehensive transportation plan for the state - is expected to pay for the bulk of the project.

Comments

kansas778 7 years, 1 month ago

No bozo, you are a racist and a moron. Haskell is not a tribe you idiot, it's a school.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 7 years, 1 month ago

That's progress, K778. You're progressing from pseudo-intellectual claptrap, to pure, unadulterated claptrap.

manus_flexibilis 7 years, 1 month ago

use the funding to bring home our fellow americans?

kansas778 7 years, 1 month ago

Exactly Scott, it's just like genocide to build this highway, why didn't I see it that way? (rolls eyes)

KS 7 years, 1 month ago

Let the pavers roll. This is a disgrace to our town that it has not been built yet.

ridinthefence 7 years, 1 month ago

NOT ridinthefence on this one folks! LOOK at the need people! Listen to the residents of Douglas County for heavens sake and BUILD IT!

lounger 7 years, 1 month ago

Leave the wetlands alone. Do you people have any Idea what it cost to reconstruct wetlands? Let alone the Idea of reconstruction doesnt always work. Best left alone these wetlands--do not touch or evil spirits will enter your being and suck up your soul. So please go away and let the beautiful land and the amazing creatures be.....

cms 7 years, 1 month ago

Every article written should preceed the words Baker wetlands with MANMADE. Manmade Baker wetlands.

bangaranggerg 7 years, 1 month ago

Please don't feed the Trolls Ljworld. The people opposing this at this point are really reaching.

moveforward 7 years, 1 month ago

lounger says: Leave the wetlands alone. Do you people have any Idea what it cost to reconstruct wetlands?

Yes, from the first time they were built. These are manmade wetlands (such a silly fashion back in the day)

spywell says: Everyone should get a good look at this... bla bla

A revisionist history lesson is not terribly helpful or just.

Quit wasting out time and so many resources. Build the road. Build roads proactively. Think about the future and plan for it. What Lawrence does not need is obstructionist that fight good things, just for sport or out of their own frustration. Be productive and stop living in the 'anti' world.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 7 years, 1 month ago

There is a long American tradition at stake here. When the percieved needs of white people come up against the interests of Indians, Indians always lose. So in addition to the desire for paving the wetlands with "progress," the tradition of white people always getting what they want from Indians needs to be upheld. Otherwise, it could set an awful precedent, and there are millions of acres of Indian lands that white people will want to "take back" some day.

oldvet 7 years, 1 month ago

Just a replay of WalMart... An expensive lawsuit that will drain our taxes and that will be lost in the end and the road will be built... Let's only hope a judge says it is the same old thing and throws it out before we spend a ton of money for a foregone conclusion... Let's get it built!

Dave McClain 7 years, 1 month ago

The most factual and best information in all of the above is the fact; "these are manmade wetlands."

I have visited other areas of the USA that have built roads through wetlands, and when done right have actually helped the wetlands prosper.

Wake up and help get this done right, rather than fighting to promote people moving out and leaving the town to die from deterioration due to infighting.

Christine Pennewell Davis 7 years, 1 month ago

It is really to early for all this need more coffee. If it is figured out while I get awake send out a news flash.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 7 years, 1 month ago

Obviously, blueharley, your lack of integrity makes it hard for you to recognize it in others.

Doug Harvey 7 years, 1 month ago

Once again, developers shaft the people and our heritage for the alleged cost-effective path. As Spywell notes above, long-term thinking is not being employed here. It rarely is when it comes to people trying to ramrod something down our throats. This problem could have been solved decades ago with a forward-looking route south of the Wakarusa. If the developer interests would back off on having to ruin this wetland for reasons that defy logic, a sensible alternative route would be found.

What is becoming blatantly obvious is that the people making important decisions don't weigh long-term considerations. As can be seen by the comments above, supporters of bulldozing the wetland are typically shoot-from-the-hip types who think that "long-term" is the drive to the liquor store -- or, in the case of developers, the drive to the bank. I like the idea that my grandson can take his grandson to the wetland to see birds and animals in the wild that they're not going to see anywhere else. We should be thinking at least in terms of our grandchildrens' grandchildren if not further. I see damn little evidence of that among these money whores.

doc1 7 years, 1 month ago

I can't wait for the day when they start building this thing. These retarded protestors will lose in court. Only after they've wasted our tax dollars. I have an idea. Track all these oponents down who keep wasting our time and make their lives suffer. Make them lose at least the the amount of tax dollars they've wasted. These Lawrence protestors are bringing out the evil side of me. hahahahahahaha just wait

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 7 years, 1 month ago

"It is a manmade wetland, and a bad one at that."

Repetition of that mantra will not make it so.

"Haskell does not own the property."

Only if you consider its theft as a legitimate way to transfer ownership.

"The idea this land is somehow "sacred" has never been established."

It is sacred to those who hold it sacred. That you choose not recognize that is purely a matter of convenience to justify the theft and destruction of the Haskell Wetlands.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 7 years, 1 month ago

"Track all these oponents down who keep wasting our time and make their lives suffer."

Petty is as petty does.

Eride 7 years, 1 month ago

Wait a minute... the wetlands are man made... and the city will be creating more wetland space than will be taken away by this project? Exactly WHY are these people still complaining? We aren't talking about REAL wetlands here. These are fake wetlands that can be created anywhere which isn't the same situation as that road.

Fighting for decades over one road because of fake wetlands? Ridiculous.

kansasbrandon 7 years, 1 month ago

Just build it already. In every poll the ljworld has run a vast majority of people just want this project done. Why do a few whiners get in the way of what is desired by a vast majority of people?

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 7 years, 1 month ago

blueharley-- I know Bob Eye (you obviously don't) and he's no Al Sharpton.

Macheath-- your spinning this to justify what you want is nauseating.

craigers 7 years, 1 month ago

One thing for certain when you see an article about the SLT is that Bozo will be out in force screaming racism. Bozo your posts are entertaining. Thanks.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 7 years, 1 month ago

"Since there is no evidence to back up this claim in regards to the wetlands, this makes jabotb a liar. A complete liar. Provide some evidence. What? You can't? Then shut up and stop lying, liar."

You should get help, defender. Your scizophrenic rants with yourself are a sign of serious problems.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 7 years, 1 month ago

"One thing for certain when you see an article about the SLT is that Bozo will be out in force screaming racism. Bozo your posts are entertaining. Thanks."

I just calls 'em like I sees 'em. Too bad you have convenience-colored glasses on, or you'd see it, too.

monkeyhawk 7 years, 1 month ago

Mr. Johnson could file his own lawsuit just as Morrison did when anticipating the loon parade against the approved Kansas casinos.

boozo hates the white man - here lies the true racism. The boozos also hate the rich, but gladly accept all the free handouts they provide in the way of tax dollars to fight ludicrous, loser lawsuits and anything else the rich can give them to enhance their otherwise droll, uninspired lives.

Christine Pennewell Davis 7 years, 1 month ago

no still need more coffee still waiting for news flash.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 7 years, 1 month ago

My, aren't you defensive this morning, monkeyhawk.

deskboy04 7 years, 1 month ago

This project will provide needed jobs to unemployed college students.

Christine Pennewell Davis 7 years, 1 month ago

ok how about forgetting the SLT an just steal the casino away from wyndott and put it in the wetlands instead? Still need more coffee.

KS 7 years, 1 month ago

I believe in majority rule! Do it!

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 7 years, 1 month ago

"If you walk down the gravel road, past the gas line area you will see your old car parts and junked appliances, maybe the sacred dump will finally be cleaned up, another positive."

I'll lay you odds that it's mostly "white" trash.

fetch 7 years, 1 month ago

"It is sacred to those who hold it sacred. That you choose not recognize that is purely a matter of convenience to justify the theft and destruction. . ."

I just cant wait to get my sacred street and alley easements back!! mmmm and might be babies buried there too!

salad 7 years, 1 month ago

This road is one of the few examples in history when the natives get to stick it to "whitey". I love watchin' him squeal about his precious little road! Let the lawsuits flow like a MIGHTY river!!!!

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 7 years, 1 month ago

"If is land is so sacred why wasn't this cleaned up years ago?"

A more pertinent question is why your family dumped all their crap their in the first place?

Richard Heckler 7 years, 1 month ago

Tax dollar projects and their ultimate cost citizen taxpayers. New roads only stimulate further increases in taxes, user fees etc etc courtesy of the anti economic growth machine aka real estate/development/Chamber of Commerce executives. 25 years of expanding the tax base that has resulted in a negative impact aka property tax increases way over and above inflation, older infrastructure ignored still yet, cost of community services soar with no means to cover the cost has produced increased user fees and inflated property taxes.

Real estate industry executives are asking for YOUR tax dollars: Oread Inn North Lawrence Project New Roadway Projects( Bypass,31st extension/31st ,North Lawrence) USD 497 not necessary high dollar plans for sports activities I-70/Le Competon Industrial Site Farmland Industrial Site County Road Improvements Questionable Dicephera Deal More schools,fire departments,law enforcement,stop signs,traffic lights,traffic calming devices and the list goes on and on and on.

*After all, expansion projects merely bring on additional cost of community services expenses aka the many hidden costs of growth = increased taxes, increased water and sewer user fees etc etc. All new infrastructure requires money for maintenance and installation.

All of the above are the hidden cost to the taxpayers that accompany most road projects. Road projects paid by the taxpayers subsidize enormous profits of the real estate industry executives ... the culprits behind this fiasco.

How much is convenience worth?

MattressMan 7 years, 1 month ago

bozo says "I'll lay you odds that it's mostly "white" trash", not saying there isn't "white" trash in there but when I was growing up it was known as the Haskell dump.

For the people that think it is hard to establish a wetland have a look east of Haskell St. just south of the industrial area at 31st and Haskell. It was not all that long ago that area was being farmed.

South of the river there is an actual cemetary(I say actual because it is fact as there are headstones and markers not just theory) just west of Haskell St. tucked back in the woods. There is other history south of the river as well, Oregon trail areas, Blantons Bridge, Quantrills trail out of the area, the Meares (sp) family farmstead etc. So the BAKER wetlands if saved would put probably more significant historic sites at risk south of the river.

Build it!

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 7 years, 1 month ago

" but when I was growing up it was known as the Haskell dump."

Not the Baker dump? You mean Haskell owned it? Imagine that.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 7 years, 1 month ago

"Haskell doesn't own the property."

That's what happens when the thieves write the laws.

Christine Pennewell Davis 7 years, 1 month ago

No amount of coffee is going to make this thread any better. Just build a casino and be done with it. all the the people will have something new to debate about. Just think of all the road ways and logistic nightmare everyone could come up with on that plan.

farmgal 7 years, 1 month ago

If the BIA hadn't of gifted this land to Baker U. in the 1st place, it would still be in the hands of Haskell. Bad move on the part of the BIA.

Christine Pennewell Davis 7 years, 1 month ago

how about we just do away with all the stuff on 23rd and just make that a 6 lane road compleatly shut down 31st and make Iowa a even bigger mess. Just throwing idea out there, thought I would give this one a shot no one like tha casino one so....

Bud Stagg 7 years, 1 month ago

All the legal claims have all failed in court. The haskell transfer, the frog, the sacred wetlands, etc. These people have no honor and are just poor losers. The whine coming from these losers is deafening but will not change things. You lost get over it! Spend your energy and my tax money somewhere else and let this go, it's over.

Build it

kmat 7 years, 1 month ago

Too many small minded Kansans that have rarely left their little home on the prairie. Go live in areas that have been ruined by too much sprawl and see what your future holds. If most of you had your way, everything would be paved over and no green areas would exist. What's the matter w/ KS? Too many greedy morons. I know someone that owns a lot of land along 31st and this entire deal is about $$$$$$$$$. They were promised big bucks and haven't gotten it. Poor babies. Greed kills.

Gary Hawke 7 years, 1 month ago

This gets repeated across the country. The anti-establishment groups form to protest needed improvements for the masses. They cry wolf..or cry sacred, etc. They file a lawsuit costing us all years of problems and millions of dollars. The decision goes against them, so they try again and again hoping the progress will just go away. Finally there is movement...now they lie down in front of the bulldozers, resort to terror tactics, etc. There will be no end to this. Those who believe they have a higher calling than the rest of us will continue to sabatoge this project. All the rest of us will suffer because politicians and judges don't want to offend the minority. There is no racism here, just a vocal minority that will try anything because they believe they are more pure than the rest of us. Build the damn thing!

kansas778 7 years, 1 month ago

LS04:" I find it interesting that the reason the project was not completed in the first place (when the other leg was originally constructed) was because of poor planning by the project's advocates. The city originally need federal funding to afford the project, and so began the first stage, hoping that the halfway completed trafficway would put pressure on the feds to approve the east leg. Unfortunately, they ignored the fact that one requirement for federal money is to conduct an environmental impact study. Originally, the project did not meet the requirements because of the impact the road would've had on the wetlands"


You've got your story a little mixed up. The requirements were all met except that Haskell, as an adjacent land owner to the 31st street route, did not give express permission for the route. Then and only then was the environmental impact study required. The funding already existed (how do you think they paid for the western leg?) but dried up as the project became more and more expensive.

kansas778 7 years, 1 month ago

I hope the judge imposes Rule 11 sanctions on this lawyer for bringing an arbitrary, malicious and unwarranted lawsuit, and I hope the sanction is he has to go help with the construction.

justme2 7 years, 1 month ago

Defender (Anonymous) says:

"That's what happens when the thieves write the laws."

And this is what happens when idiotic, racist liars post on ljworld.

So makes bozo an idiot racist? Is it because he/she doesn't fit into your stereotypical view of how a good little ndn should act? That he/she should kowtow to the "mighty white people" of this land? Or is it because he/she has the audacity to speak the truth in the face of opposition who cannot/will not agree that that land was 1) given away without Native consent 2) was and continues to be sacred to Native students/people-why should anyone have to "prove" why it's sacred? 3) could go on about all the assinine remarks here, but will save it for another day

Why are you spending so much time trying to portray bozo as a racist? Is it your inherent sense of entitlement which allows you to act offended if someone dares question you and your ability to say "Just BUILD it?" Is that why bozo is a racist for what he/she says?

Just asking.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 7 years, 1 month ago

"The funding already existed (how do you think they paid for the western leg?) but dried up as the project became more and more expensive."

No, all the funding was expended building the western leg, thanks in no small part to the huge pay outs to the well-connected speculators who sold land to the state for that section of the road. No doubt, much of the pressure for this route is so that many of those same speculators, or their buddies, can get what they "deserve" out this cash cow.

Bladerunner 7 years, 1 month ago

Add Fluoride to the water in the man made wetlands. Frogs deserve healthy teeth!

S0uPnAzi 7 years, 1 month ago

"In total, the report estimates that the 32nd Street route will result in 240 fewer vehicle accidents during a 20-year period than the 42nd Street route."

I guess that doesn't matter to some, what the heck, a few more deaths so we can "preserve" our precious wetlands. It does little good to argue with noodle-heads like LS04, they will always be against the SLT no matter what, so don't waste your time.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 7 years, 1 month ago

"In total, the report estimates that the 32nd Street route will result in 240 fewer vehicle accidents during a 20-year period than the 42nd Street route."

I guess that doesn't matter to some, what the heck, a few more deaths so we can "preserve" our precious wetlands. It does little good to argue with noodle-heads like LS04, they will always be against the SLT no matter what, so don't waste your time.


How can one argue with such Ouija board evidence?

5kidsrucrazy 7 years, 1 month ago

Initial funding to complete the bypass also dried up due to legal costs.32nd street alignment is less expensive because several bridges ($2-3 million a pop) are required on 42nd st alignment, along with MULTIPLE historic sites that would be contested in court. Cost of 32nd St includes purchasing land, creating wetlands & soundwalls, & all road construction costs.For each acre of wetlands taken, KDOT is required to create 3X the acreage in wetlands (manmade to begin with). Plans are to extend existing wetlands. The majority of the wetlands will be undisturbed.How would the new highway cause more noise & pollution? Commuters sit and idle at a four-way stop backing up cars from Louisiana to Haskell, Haskell to 23rd, past the business park on K-10, etc?If the 42nd st alignment is chosen, the county road south of 31st street will become Louisiana & be open to development to the 42nd st alignment. Private property can be sold by individual landowners as they please. Putting the bypass on the 32nd st alignment will help PROTECT the wetlands by preventing development on its east & west borders. It will be bordered by roads & easements owned by the city/county. Didn't anybody go to the public information meeting where all the alignments and their pros & cons were explained? Most citizens don't know that years ago, when the 32nd street alignment was being contested by Haskell, individual landowners were selling property down 31st street for development (Home Depot, etc., which Haskell didn't like). Haskell insinuated that they needed money to build a new $10 million science building, & that if they had a donation from the state, they would discontinue the lawsuit. KDOT lawyers refused.**KDOT doesn't want to destroy. It has to look at the need for improvement & all the options objectively & decide what would be the best for all travellers & taxpayers. The current situation is not good, for saftey & environmental reasons. The 32nd st alignment was chosen because it MINIMIZES the impact on the environment (some may not agree, but look at the plans objectively, without emotion, before you decide) & at a lower cost. This is what is meant by "feasable & prudent". It's frustrating that people are getting in accidents &/or killed on the road, when taxpayer dollars to build a safer option are being eaten up by lawsuits. The road could have been built 2-3 times over with the amount of money that has been spent on legal costs. The original leg needs to be a four-lane road due to high traffic and accident numbers, but there isn't the money to do it now (although there was....). --I am not against environmental causes or Native American causes (Cherokee blood runs through my veins), but we have to do what is best for all people (and animals). It seems to me that 32nd st makes most sense. The fact is that growth is happening here. We have to face it and deal with it soon or more people (& critters running across 31st st) will die.

5kidsrucrazy 7 years, 1 month ago

PS--Sorry for the long post! I've been saving up for a long time and sick of the fight (I hear enough of it from kids)!!! Let's grow up people!!!!

fetch 7 years, 1 month ago

Maybe Bozo and Haskell want the blackmail of a bigger ($20 million?) Science Building this time?

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 7 years, 1 month ago

"*Most citizens don't know that years ago, when the 32nd street alignment was being contested by Haskell, individual landowners were selling property down 31st street for development (Home Depot, etc., which Haskell didn't like). Haskell insinuated that they needed money to build a new $10 million science building, & that if they had a donation from the state, they would discontinue the lawsuit."

Haskell was very publicly offered several million dollars to go along with the 32nd alignment, and they turned it down, so I suspect that the reason that "most citizens don't know" about your little secret is that it never happened.

scott3460 7 years, 1 month ago

"¢ The wetland route will cost less to construct. The 32nd Street route is estimated to cost $147.9 million to complete. The 42nd Street option is estimated at $166.9 million."

OK, assume a 5 year legal fight & a 3% rate of inflation each year (those figures seem very conservative to me, but perhaps someone can suggest a better estimate) That would mean means fighting for the "through the wetlands route" can be expected to cost at least $170+ million vs. the lower cost for the 42nd street choice. And that does not even include the legal costs, etc.... Why do the wetlands route supporters want to cost the taxpayers more money?

scott3460 7 years, 1 month ago

"We have to face it and deal with it soon or more people (& critters running across 31st st) will die."

People have been tagged on 31st? Cool!

gr 7 years, 1 month ago

"Why do the wetlands route supporters want to cost the taxpayers more money?"

Why do the ripirian ecosystem route supporters not want more wetlands and cost the taxpayers more money by their whining?

scott3460 7 years, 1 month ago

"Why do the ripirian ecosystem route supporters not want more wetlands and cost the taxpayers more money by their whining?"

a. because "manmade" wetlands with a highway whizzing through it and smog, and noise, and light and all the trash being tossed generously along the route by our wonderful species does not result in the same quality of space that we currently have.

b. because we value the place we have and do not think it should, or needs to be, or can legally, be destroyed.

scott3460 7 years, 1 month ago

"I hope the judge imposes Rule 11 sanctions on this lawyer for bringing an arbitrary, malicious and unwarranted lawsuit, and I hope the sanction is he has to go help with the construction."

I hope one day you learn enough about the practice of law to realize what stupendously stupid comments these are.

jumpin_catfish 7 years, 1 month ago

You can do it! The feds can help! Build a road and we will drive! 32nd, make it happen! I need a nap the SLT is boring me as all the whiners do everytime this subject comes up! Just Build it!

manus_flexibilis 7 years, 1 month ago

Can we all just add on to the national debt for this stretch of malfeasance!

Dorothy Hoyt-Reed 7 years, 1 month ago

Mitigation, smidigation. It will never happen. They will suddenly run out of money.

scott3460 7 years, 1 month ago

"kansas778's comment seems perfectly fine to me."

Are you licensed to practice law? If so, you would understand how ridiculous both the assertion & the propsed remedy are.

Pray tell, just which of the provisions that you have cited do you think the lawyer would be violating?

manus_flexibilis 7 years, 1 month ago

Lets just throw in some C.F.R statutes regulations mumbo jumbo while were at it. Sounds like were still at the state level, possibly the city conjuction?

Mike Ford 7 years, 1 month ago

Ironically, Mr. Eye, Mr. Plenk, and Mr. Benjamin, have all worked pro bono to stop this trafficway, as have I. All of these uneducated people make tree hugger assertions about the wetlands. The area is a sacred site that was used by the Kaw and Osage people before Lawrence or Haskell existed. This is not a hippie issue. It is a Native issue. I feel like a college professor talking to 4 year olds when I post on here. These 4 year olds make the same pointless manmade assertions. It's like listening to the same angry "Fox Heartland" people making the same untrue assertions over and over. The Army Corps of Engineers have ignored volumes of evidence talking of tribal use of this land as a sacred area and as a historic part of Kaw, Osage, Shawnee, and Haskell territory over the LAST FIVE CENTURIES. For this, they will be sued and forced to acknowledge everything they've denied previously in an open federal court of law. Again, non-native people don't like coming to grips with their own history, so denial is part of the game. I leave, so let all of the 4 year old denialists start up with mistruths again.

Mike Ford 7 years, 1 month ago

the way it is statement is used by those people who really don't want to deal with the actions of their culture. Indigenous fighting exploded when Europeans came here and demanded fur pelts and control over the spread of firearms in the 17th century. Prior to that, Indigenous people simply moved around in a lot of open space to avoid conflict. Examples of slave taking and territory taking in Indian Country caused by European meddling; Choctaw-Chickasaw Civil War in the early 18th century brought on by English and French trading interests in the Lower Mississippi Valley, The massacre of the Huron People by the Five Nations of New York in the 1640's, brought on by French and English trade interests, the massacre of the Pequot people by British and colonist backed Niantic, Mohegan, and Narragansett peoples in the 1630's. If the European invaders were superior, why did the Wampanoag Peoples and Powhattan Peoples have to show the starving immigrants how to grow crops and survive? There's no superiority in that. Spend ten years learning and come back with your comments.

kansas778 7 years, 1 month ago

Scott--are you a lawyer? You've been secretive about what your knowledge on the subject is. The judge has a lot of discretion as to what the sanction is, and monetary sanctions are not the only ones imposed. While my proposed sanction would be unusual, it wouldn't be as harsh as making the attorney pay for all the costs the public is having to pay because of his arrogance. It won't happen, and he won't be sanctioned, but everyone knows this is about obstructing progress and not about the stupid swamplands. This lawyer is costing the taxpayers a lot of money and wasting our time.

kansas778 7 years, 1 month ago

tuschka-liar, interesting that you say "Indigenous fighting exploded when Europeans came here" because that makes me wonder why pre-columbian cities in the Americas had city walls? Did they build those walls just for fun?

Also: " Indigenous people simply moved around in a lot of open space to avoid conflict" Gosh gee, but most indigenous people were stationary agriculturalists. The nomadic great plains indians are a stereotype.

tuschka-liar, not only do you not know a thing about the law, but you don't seem to know a thing about native american pre-history either. Seriously dude, quit lying, quit making stuff up.

David Benson 7 years, 1 month ago

k778- Just to let you know, I finally responded to your deconstruction of my defense of the wetlands. Please refer to yesterday's discussion.

kansas778 7 years, 1 month ago

I think tuschka-liar got his native american history lessons from watching Dances with Wolves.

manus_flexibilis 7 years, 1 month ago

Practicing my anonimity to un-bozo the defenders of the SLT with some witty political satire. Where in the C.F.R does it recommend restoration of a biodiverse community? Mussels, Aphids, Arthropods, Evolution (touchy subject)! What community? Lefties, Conservationism! Affecting a biodiverse ecosystem to fulfill the majorities bio-technological clock.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 7 years, 1 month ago

"War is war. the spoils go to the winners. That is the way it is."

What a mouth-breathing troglodyte.

kansas778 7 years, 1 month ago

tuschka-liar, I guess you didn't read any of my post, because I clearly, yet again, showed how much of a liar you are. I notice you completely ignored responding to the substantive part of my post, I guess that means you can't refute what I've stated. That may work in your imagination, but this is the real world, catch up.

ridinthefence 7 years, 1 month ago

Where are the majority of the people that opposed this years ago?? Back on their reservation because their schooling stint at Haskell is over... while we continue to deal with traffic in Lawrence, Kansas? BUILD IT!

7 years, 1 month ago

Are other communities' local message boards so full of flaming hatred? Shame on everyone who would resort to name-calling and pointless bickering to state their case. You people literally make me feel like vomiting.

toefungus 7 years, 1 month ago

Could this semi-wet land be a visible metaphor for Lawrence. Half dry and half wet with neither side seeming to get the upper hand.

justme2 7 years, 1 month ago

Under that same reasoning, the "white tribes" from Ireland, England, Germany, etc. came and through superiour war fare defeated the native americans.

Actually, the "tribes" from Europe did not posses superior warfare. What they possessed were diseases that decimated the population of North America. And they did not win the war, for if they did, the Indigenous people of this continent would have been wiped out by the progression of invaders that followed the initial invasion.

justme2 7 years, 1 month ago

MacHeath says There are a lot of areas around here, that abound in artifacts, indicating acient americans lived and thrived there:that friggin place isn't one of them!!! All this bull about that place being sacred, is stuff trumped up in recent times so folks like you and Bozo will have something to complain about. Find a better venue.

Sounds like a red-neck, flag waving American...

Mike Ford 7 years, 1 month ago

name calling means you can't refute what I've stated.Calling me Tuschkaliar is just your feeble attempt to refute facts that I've stated. It may work on FOX, but here you have no volume to outyell people and you can't refute facts. So I guess you're just a name caller denialist of facts.

Mike Ford 7 years, 1 month ago

furthermore, there were over 18,000 acres of wetlands along the Wakarusa Valley Corridor prior to the creation of Clinton Lake, which destroyed most of the wetlands in this valley. The Clinton Phase of the Pomona Culture lived in this area 700 years ago. The ancestors of the Pawnee and Wichita Caddoan Peoples lived in this area. The Kansas City Hopewellian Peoples almost ventured into this area, as did the Steed-Kisker Peoples. The Dhegian Dakota peoples, like the Kaw and Osage peoples came into this area around 1100 A.D. . Chiwere Dakota Peoples like the Iowa and Missouria might've also ventured into this area. This area looked quite different before the hordes of historically deficient peoples arrived here in the 1840's and 1850's.

Mike Ford 7 years, 1 month ago

Dances with Wolves was made for historically and culturally deficient people to try and gain a clue watching. Must be you, Kansas 778. The movie itself was innaccurate. Furthermore, I'm not Lance Burr. He's someone I hold in great esteem, though. Thanks for comparing me to him because I hold him in high esteem.

jasonthesane 7 years, 1 month ago

What do you mean by "historically deficient?"

aeroscout17 7 years, 1 month ago

I don't want to get too involved in this discussion, but if an EIS is was prepared it is because there would be "significant" impacts (40 CFR 1502.1). The preparer of the EIS determines if the impacts are significant. That should tell everyone something about the magnitude of any decision in this matter.

I want to get across Lawrence faster also but I think the long term benefit would to be to build a bypass further south. I think by the time a 32nd alignment is done it would be obsolete anyway. Why not plan for future expansion and stop arguing over a controversial plan? The original planning and EIS was done years ago and does not reflect what is happening in Lawrence today.

manus_flexibilis 7 years, 1 month ago

'flaming hatred' just a rare form of racism! A pointless way to throw commenters off the subject.

The majority will always be there causing a ruckus when issues arise pertaining to the land. Stay on the fence while the roosting chickens discuss a pecking order, figuring why the chicken crossed the wetland!

have a nice day;>)

Mike Ford 7 years, 1 month ago

too bad I won't carry on replying to your pointless and useless debate, Kansas 778. I know my Choctaw ancestors stayed mostly in Mississippi until White people like Andrew Jackson forced three quarters of them to move to Louisiana, Arkansas, Texas, and Oklahoma in the 1830's. You're not Native, you're a name calling spoon hoping to resort to catch-phrase name calling. You must be a bill O' Reilly clone. How original. You make all of the ridiculous statements and rachet up the tone by calling me a liar. How original. Your parents and grandparents weren't dragged off to a boarding school 100 years ago, to have their language and their culture almost destroyed. Your grandparents weren't starved by intentional mistreatment by government officials and dumped in a wetlands area to be ignored until a bunch of heartless racist profiteers came along as the U.S. Government was ignoring treaty obligations and conducting fire sales on tribal lands without tribal consultation. You really have no say in this matter other than to make provoking quasi-racist baiting comments towards people that know what they're talking about more than you do. Come to think of it you really have nothing productive to say at all, other than to start arguements. I hope you actually learn something a decade after you finish school whereever you're at.

camper 7 years, 1 month ago

I think what we should do is the exact opposite of whatever city commision say's.

kansas778 7 years, 1 month ago

No tushka-liar, my grandfather was separated from his family and his house taken over by the Germans in WWI because it was the only one in the area with wooden floors. My great-grandmother was forced to wait on Prussian officers while the Germans and Russians fought destructive and devastating battles on my grandfather's homeland. People all over eastern Europe have suffered under one empire or another for a lot longer than native Americans have had to suffer under Europeans. But you know what? That wasn't me, and that wasn't you. So quit bitching about something that never happened to you, and quit acting like a child who wants special attention.

scott3460 7 years, 1 month ago

"So quit bitching about something that never happened to you, and quit acting like a child who wants special attention."

His point, of course, is that it IS happening to him. AGAIN.

But you are so blinded by your selfish desire to avoid waiting in the traffic hell that people like you created with your pro-"development" policies, and to avoid paying anything more than the bare minimum in taxes that your so called "leaders" tell you the cheapest route will cost. You are right that there is someone acting like a child who wants special treatment, but me thinks it is the spoiled and whiny "Build it now - screw the damage" crowd. So, please feel free to take your own advise.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 7 years, 1 month ago

Your ancestors bailed on E. Europe, and came to the US, to live on land that was stolen from Indians. But you want a little convenience in getting around town, so you advocate stealing land that was given to them in paltry compensation for a stolen continent.

You're just as bad as the Nazis that oppressed your ancestors, K778. What a hypocrite.

sourpuss 7 years, 1 month ago

You people think a new road will just fix all of your problems. It won't. It won't make a bit of difference, and so what if it shaves 5 minutes off your precious commute - you won't be making that commute when gas gets to $5 or $6. Well, maybe you will because you gambled on getting a bigger house in Lawrence with your KC paycheck, and you won't find anyone to sell it to, so I guess you will be commuting. Still, why should the earth have to suffer for your self-centeredness? Oh wait, it already is.

Do yourselves a favor an sell-up now while you might be able to get a sucker for your ticky-tacky house out West, and move closer to your job. Then we won't need to destroy more useful land for your "lifestyle choices".

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