Add Arkansas State to the growing list of universities agreeing to scrap an ethnically offensive nickname.
A couple of weeks ago, ASU officials, bowing to NCAA pressure, reluctantly agreed to drop Indians and pursue another school mascot, joining Dartmouth, Stanford, St. John's and Marquette among others that have junked Native American nicknames.
Then there are some Kansas high schools.
In 1998, the Kansas Association for Native American Education issued a resolution that ":calls for the elimination of use of American Indian mascots and logos in all public and private schools in the State of Kansas."
Then in 2001, the Kansas Human Rights Commission issued a policy statement that "strongly encourages the discontinuance" of Indian-related logos and symbols, including high school mascots.
And how did Sunflower State high schools react to those KANAE and KHRC resolutions?
They were virtually ignored.
In 2000, Hiawatha High jettisoned the nickname Redskins and became the Red Hawks. Otherwise, a check of the Kansas State High School Activities Association directory shows 30 current offenders - 16 Indians, five Warriors, three Redskins, two Chieftains, two Braves and two Redmen.
To tell the truth, I'm not all that sure Warriors needs to be lumped into this category. That nickname is OK if they don't use corresponding Native American mascots or logos. If they do, then they should change.
Without question, the most offensive nicknames are Redskins and Redmen. Imagine the hue and cry, for example, if a school's athletic teams went by Yellowskins or Blackmen. Public pressure would be overwhelming.
Yet Wichita North, Little River and Liberal continue as Redskins, while Atchison and Smith Center remain the Redmen (and Redwomen?). These schools easily could retain red as part of their nickname, like Hiawatha and like St. John's University when it switched from Redmen to Red Storm.
Bonner Springs and Council Grove, the two schools known as the Braves, need to start from scratch, as do Tonganoxie and Kiowa-South Barber, homes of the Chieftains.
I suspect the folks in nearby Tonganoxie would argue that their town was named after an Indian chief, so why shouldn't they be allowed to use an Indian nickname? Answer: See Hiawatha above. Why not something like the Tonganoxie Thunder instead?
Shawnee Mission North can use a similar rationalization. SM North has been known as the Indians ever since the school opened in 1922 in then-rural Overland Park not far from the Shawnee Indian Mission, now a state historical site. Yes, but the other four Shawnee Mission schools don't have Native American nicknames.
And what's the deal with Manhattan? The home of Kansas State University was named after the famed borough of New York City that was purchased from Indians. That's certainly no reason for Manhattan High to be known as the Indians. Manhattan College doesn't use an Indian mascot. They're the Jaspers. Jaspers??? Oh, well.
The NCAA wields an effective club, stressing it won't allow schools with offensive Native American nicknames to host championship events. Why can't the KSHSAA apply the same kind of pressure?
Comments
Linda Endicott 6 years, 9 months ago
My bad, Yeti...pacifist is the word I was thinking of as well...
But the dictionary and encyclopedia items I looked up apparently make them out to be pretty much the same thing.
Mike Ford 6 years, 9 months ago
I have to give Mr. Wooding respect on this issue. The last 50 or so posts show how clueless many of you are to this issue. If it's okay to clown Native people on a sports field, how does anyone expect tribal issues to be taken seriously by the larger population? None of these posters even mention any Native tribes save the Seminole tidbit at the beginning. None of you know very much about this issue, and yet you feel it necessary to speak with a tone of informedness when you aren't really speaking to anything except your lack of knowledge concerning the many peoples whose land you now live upon. It seems as if too many people have been exposed to these ridiculous charactures and not enough exposure to congressional laws concerning tribes and their cultures has taken place. Please learn before you speak.
gr 6 years, 9 months ago
I don't see why any school would want to choose an Indian nickname. Names are usually chosen to show bravery and power. With all the problems indians have given us in recent years, I sure wouldn't want to give them any honor by choosing their names.
On the other hand, if giving indian names cause them dishonor, then why choose red Hawks? Isn't that bringing dishonor to hawks? Then there's the lions, tigers, and bears. But Jayhawks? - honor, dishonor - appropriate? I like the part about stealing everything not nailed down = goalposts.
TheYetiSpeaks 6 years, 9 months ago
I've heard of a pacifist.
Linda Endicott 6 years, 9 months ago
A passivist, Scene, is someone who avoids confrontation, especially violent confrontation. They prefer to settle matters peacefully.
A passivist, for example, would not join the military.
It's usually used in the phrase passive resistance: "refusal to obey the demands or commands of a government or occupying power, without resorting to violence or active measures of opposition; its usual purpose is to force concessions from the government or occupying power." (Britannica.com)
You never heard of the word before? Really?
classclown 6 years, 9 months ago
From Merriam Webster
passivism One entry found for passivism. Main Entry: passivism Pronunciation: 'pa-si-"vi-z&m Function: noun : a passive attitude, behavior, or way of life - passivist /-vist/ noun
scenebooster 6 years, 9 months ago
What the hell is a "passivist"?
classclown 6 years, 9 months ago
Larry (Anonymous) says:
How about the "Fighting Passivist":: of course that might offend liberals
==================================================
Or just call them the "Fighting Liberals". Although the team would probably quit and leave halfway through the games.
consumer1 6 years, 9 months ago
When I was a Lawrence youngun, my friends and I started a softball team and we called ourselves " The Softballs" . Chicks dug it.
Sigmund 6 years, 9 months ago
Of course you, and the vast majority of Americans, can have all the positive connotations you want about the term "Jayhawk", "Cheifs", or "Redskins" and it won't matter a bit. If the tiniest number of people with nothing better to be offended about are offended we must go through the time, effort, and expense of changing it. Whatever.
Mr_Ramirez 6 years, 9 months ago
gogo - funny!
"Next Friday, the "308's" battle the "259's." " - he he , also funny!
The_Original_Bob 6 years, 9 months ago
"The Original Bob-get your facts straight:
http://www.canbet.com/whatsnew/kansas-ci:
"The name, "Chiefs" is derived from Mayor Bartle, who 35 years prior, founded the Native American-based honor society known as The Tribe of Mic-O-Say within the Boy Scouts of America organization, which earned him the nickname, "The Chief."[2]" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_:"
Sooooo, exactly like I said. The team is named after Bartle whose nickname was The Chief. They are named after him because he was a big wig who got the team into KC and was a bitch in KC politics (everyone called him Chief, not just little boyscouts). Please learn how to interpret the facts correctly.
gogoplata 6 years, 9 months ago
This reminds of the Seinfeld where he kept trying not to offend the indian woman.
WINONA: So, where are we gonna go eat?
JERRY: I thought we'd eat at the Gentle Harvest.
WINONA: Ooh, I love that place, but it's usually so crowded. Can we get a table?
JERRY: Ah, don't worry. I made reser... (catches himself)
WINONA: You made what?
JERRY: I uh, I uh, I arranged for the appropriate accommodation. And then, Knick tickets, floor seats.
WINONA: How did you get these?
JERRY: Got 'em on the street, from a scal... (catches himself again) A uh, one of those guys.
WINONA: What guys?
JERRY: You know, the guys, that uh, they sell the tickets for the sold-out events.
WINONA: Oh.
mom_of_three 6 years, 9 months ago
I even remember it from history class in school. Another dictionary defition doesn't apply it to either state, but to A name given to a free-booting, unenlisted, armed man or guerrilla.
It evolved from that to a positive connotation.
75x55 6 years, 9 months ago
yme - given the amount of drinking in the stands, that might be not only PC, but far more accurate.
mom_of_three 6 years, 9 months ago
The definition came out of the dictionary, so I will stick with it.......
yme 6 years, 9 months ago
I don't have any comment about Chuck's column. But I am offended by folks who talk about the border wars and use the term Jayhawks for Kansans, but "border ruffians" for Missourians. That is as PC as it gets. Jayhawkers was a derogatory term used by Missourians. Kansans called their counterparts from the east "Pukes," not "border ruffians." What a shame Missourians opted for Tigers for their teams, wouldn't it be much more original to be screaming "Go Pukes."
scenebooster 6 years, 9 months ago
"So it's only racist if it's a white person saying it.
Okay, got it."
Kam, either you're being intentionally obtuse, or you are severly ignorant of the history of this country.
Kam_Fong_as_Chin_Ho 6 years, 9 months ago
"That's correct. "Fightin' Whites" is every bit as racist as the "Fighting Reds." I'm glad we finally agree!"
Not trying to start a fight here, but we don't agree. I do not consider as equal these two instances.
So it's only racist if it's a white person saying it.
Okay, got it.
Sigmund 6 years, 9 months ago
Honestly, with all the problems facing American's of all races today, it is amazing that this rises above the level of a discussion on "does a dozen eggs count more than one item for purposes qualifying Quick Checkout lines at the grocery store?"
scenebooster 6 years, 9 months ago
"Obviously, the "mascot" for Kansas schools will have to be the USD number to avoid offending anyone. (Look out Vikings, Celtics - you're next.)"
Come on now, jamesaust - there's a wee bit of difference between native americans and vikings/celtics...and I'm a former viking.
Jamesaust 6 years, 9 months ago
Obviously, the "mascot" for Kansas schools will have to be the USD number to avoid offending anyone. (Look out Vikings, Celtics - you're next.)
Next Friday, the "308's" battle the "259's."
-- The 308's they are so great; 259 smells like slime.
-- We're #308!
scenebooster 6 years, 9 months ago
"That's correct. "Fightin' Whites" is every bit as racist as the "Fighting Reds." I'm glad we finally agree!"
Not trying to start a fight here, but we don't agree. I do not consider as equal these two instances.
75x55 6 years, 9 months ago
mom_of_three - jayhawking was primarily a label applied to Kansan actions, with Missourians having such monikers as 'border ruffians', or 'ruffians' for short, bushwhackers, and even 'pukes'. Indeed, the last one was used extensively pre-war, where the homestate of a 'puke' was nearly as easily identified as that of a 'hoosier'. [Once again proving that real history is far more interesting and potentially amusing than this 'traditions' stuff :)]
coldsplice - "shortsided opinion"? I'm thinking apologies to Mr. WEBSTER are more in order than to Paul Harvey.
TheOriginalCA 6 years, 9 months ago
75x55...
As someone who grew up in Lawrence, I can honestly say that your history is accurate and that it is forbidden in the city of Lawrence to discuss this matter. Why else would a bunch of white people fight in the civil war? The civil war was not about abolition of slavery just as much as the Iraq war is not about human rights and getting rid of Saddam. The Iraq war IS about oil and the civil war was about looting, and money. I don't want to turn this into an Iraq war discussion, I am just drawing historical similarities on what war is almost always about.... money
TheYetiSpeaks 6 years, 9 months ago
Terms like Redskins and Redmen are extremely offensive. Redskins actually refers to the practice of turning the scalps or "skins" of Indian men, women and children in for a bounty. I find the continued use of this term especially disgustingly offensive.
Sigmund 6 years, 9 months ago
"But the term "Jayhawk" evolved into something positive, so there shouldn't be an issue with it's offending anyone." I think you underestimate the ability of Americans to be offended and who are willing to file lawsuits to compel other people to cease and desist offending behavior.
Kam_Fong_as_Chin_Ho 6 years, 9 months ago
If that is so, then the corollary that naming sports teams after native americans is also racist must be true
That's correct. "Fightin' Whites" is every bit as racist as the "Fighting Reds." I'm glad we finally agree!
mom_of_three 6 years, 9 months ago
But the term "Jayhawk" evolved into something positive, so there shouldn't be an issue with it's offending anyone.
acg 6 years, 9 months ago
Because biggunz, if people are bitching and complaining about something, they just aren't happy. It isn't fashionable to complain about the war anymore. Folks are getting tired of it. It's not even front page news anymore. Abortion is too hot button of a topic right now. We've resigned ourselves to gas prices. So they were like, Okay, what can we complain about? Oh yeah, team mascots. We forgot to be offended by mascots!!
Sigmund 6 years, 9 months ago
I always thought "Chestie Lyons" was the name of a porn star, but I was quite wrong. Ever since I discovered my error I have wondered how many self conscious LHS pubescent teenaged girls have complexes about their bodies today because of that mascot.
At any rate, at least FSHS didn't choose to be the "Free State Fighting Banana Slugs." http://www.sportsfilter.com/comments.cfm/6198
mom_of_three 6 years, 9 months ago
You are partially correct about the term "Jayhawker."
One of the free-soil guerrillas in Kansas and Missouri during the border disputes of 1854 to 1859. They weren't just from Kansas......
TheOriginalCA 6 years, 9 months ago
As long as these mascots are portrayed with dignity and honor, I see nothing wrong with it. i DO believe that the Washington Redskins need to change their mascot though. They are in the nation's capitol and they need to set an example for the rest of the country. I think that you can reflect the heritage of Native Americans in a manner that is favorable and that should be encouraged by the NCAA. What are the Texas Tech Red Raiders portraying? Georgetown has a plant (Hoyas) as their mascot.. LOL. USC has the Trojans. I hope that those of you with ancestors who were Trojans are not offended. I hope that farmers without brains are not offended by the Nebraska Cornhuskers or that OU Sooners cast all cheaters in a negative light. Should racists of Mississippi be offended by the Mississippi Rebels mascot? Should decent people be offended by the fact that Mississippi is honoring Rebels by having them be their mascot?
biggunz 6 years, 9 months ago
why are these names offensive now...after all these years? and if they've always been offensive, why are people just now complaining??
scenebooster 6 years, 9 months ago
"Yes. Naming a team "The Fightin' Whites" is obviously racist."
Kam Fong:
If that is so, then the corollary that naming sports teams after native americans is also racist must be true, which is the point they were attempting to make.
See how that works?
75x55:
Damn skippy.
topcity 6 years, 9 months ago
Who cares?
75x55 6 years, 9 months ago
awww. sb, you're showing your statism... ;D
coldsplice 6 years, 9 months ago
75x55 The obviousness of such a shortsided opinion as yours is to obvious to require further elaboration (my apologies to Paul Harvey).
Kam_Fong_as_Chin_Ho 6 years, 9 months ago
the "Fightin' Whites" are an intermural team of Native Americans who formed the team to highlight the racism of naming sports teams after native americans:is that racist?
Yes. Naming a team "The Fightin' Whites" is obviously racist.
scenebooster 6 years, 9 months ago
75x55 -
Go back to Missouri.
scenebooster 6 years, 9 months ago
"So racism is okay as long as it isn't sanctioned by a university?
Okay, got it."
Um, no. In case you missed the point entirely, the "Fightin' Whites" are an intermural team of Native Americans who formed the team to highlight the racism of naming sports teams after native americans...is that racist?
Similarly, you can (I hope) see the difference between a state university, funded by taxpayer dollars, using a racially charged term for the name of their sports teams, and a college intramural basketball team made up of a group of people who have been historically mistreated by the state turning the tables and calling their intramural basketball team "the whities"?
All of this is besides the point, which is that your incorrect claim that the "Fightin' Whites" are a part of UNC, which is like saying that the intramural basketball leagues at the Lawrence Community Center are a part of KU (as there are most certainly KU students involved).
75x55 6 years, 9 months ago
"were using it with pride for their free state opposition to slavery. Secondly, I don't think you really want to get into an argument defending the Confederacy and the institution of slavery do you:?"
Your comment about slavery is a straw man, and misses the real point. The real question is this - is it acceptable that Kansans, having had the good fortune of being on the victors side, took pride in a vicious form of terrorism? Is terrorism any less abhorrent than racism?
Kam_Fong_as_Chin_Ho 6 years, 9 months ago
I'm pretty sure that there is a significant difference between the mascot of a state university and that of an intramural basketball team.
So racism is okay as long as it isn't sanctioned by a university?
Okay, got it.
scenebooster 6 years, 9 months ago
Well, larry - to be honest, your atrocious spelling offends me much, much more.
What exactly is a "passivist"? Are they liberals?
coldsplice 6 years, 9 months ago
75x55-as someone who grew up in Lawrence starting in 1975, bleeds crimson and blue, and is back several times a year, thanks but no thanks for the history lesson. Most of us know the origin of the term and if you did too you would know that long before KU took the name, Kansans had taken over the nickname Jayhawker and were using it with pride for their free state opposition to slavery. Secondly, I don't think you really want to get into an argument defending the Confederacy and the institution of slavery do you...?
Furthermore, you miss the point. If someone had felt that strongly against what was done by people in Lawrence (or by border ruffians on the Missouri side) they at least had the opportunity to leave it. Race is not something you control-it simply is and to use it's imagery carries with it a pretty big responsibilty.
Larry 6 years, 9 months ago
How about the "Fighting Passivist"...... of course that might offend liberals.
scenebooster 6 years, 9 months ago
Easy, there 75x55! That's a pretty perjorative reading of the meaning of "Jayhawks"...what are you, a Missourian?
There is a pretty large abolitionist connotation to the term Jayhawk & Jayhawker...
coldsplice 6 years, 9 months ago
The Original Bob-get your facts straight...
http://www.canbet.com/whatsnew/kansas-city-chiefs-history.aspx
"The name, "Chiefs" is derived from Mayor Bartle, who 35 years prior, founded the Native American-based honor society known as The Tribe of Mic-O-Say within the Boy Scouts of America organization, which earned him the nickname, "The Chief."[2]" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_...
75x55 6 years, 9 months ago
Coldsplice - a little history background for ya. "Jayhawks" came from the pre-civil war border war days descriptive term, 'jayhawking'. This was descriptive of Kansans that raided farms and towns in Missouri, stealing everything not nailed down, occasionally burning down the nailed stuff, shooting defenseless citizens and carrying piled wagons of said stolen items back to Kansas. Indeed, the beloved "free state" city of Lawrence was the major hub for these miscreants - one gets the impression that Lawrence was essentially a giant fencing operation at some points. Given the collected works of these 'jayhawkers' in Missouri, the 1863 raid by Quantrill could reasonably be viewed as justice. Or at least 'western justice'.
There isn't much positive about the term 'jayhawk' before it's adoption by KU.
The_Original_Bob 6 years, 9 months ago
"Naming your team after former KC Mayor Bartle's rank in some obscure Boy Scout fraternal organization is ridiculous."
Yeah, the Chief's weren't named after Indians. The KC Star won't print "Redskins" in the paper when talking about Washington's team.
NDNJAYHAWKER 6 years, 9 months ago
I'm an American Indian and have been raised here in Lawrence all of my life. I know my cultural and my traditional ways and respect every elder that has a say so in this matter. Personally I really don't have a problem with anyone using mascot names or symbols representing us. It is a GOOD feeling that they use us to represent there school or sports! But for the white people to get dressed up and try to dance and wear stupid looking clothing is just totally disrespectful that it makes me madder than heck! OR playing some idiotic music that misrepresents us it is not right either. That is what needs to be taken into consideration in my eyes!
scenebooster 6 years, 9 months ago
Kam Fong sez:
"The Fightin' Whites, also called "The Fightin' Whities", were a real basketball team that played at the University of Northern Colorado. Check it out:"
From the article you provided:
"What's in a name? On second thought ... is it Fightin' Whities or Fightin' Whites? The intramural basketball team at the University of Northern Colorado has maintained it wants to be called the Fightin' Whites. Initially, some team members called themselves the Whities, others the Whites. However, the team has since unified and said the name Whities has a negative connotation, and that's not what its message is about. So, Fightin' Whites it is."
I'm pretty sure that there is a significant difference between the mascot of a state university and that of an intramural basketball team. As has been posted, UNC sports teams are known as "The Bears", usually accompanied by an illustration of a bear.
Mr_Ramirez 6 years, 9 months ago
The Fighting Whites!! i love it! ....and it doesnt offend me at all......
acg 6 years, 9 months ago
Aren't there more important things to whine about?
Linda Endicott 6 years, 9 months ago
Whether it was a joke or just something to get their point across doesn't much make any difference to me. Did they think white people would be offended by the logo? I'm not offended in the least.
I guess every team that has the Redskins or something like that as their mascot should start using drawings of tomatoes instead.
But something tells me that people would just find something else to get upset about even if all the mascots and logos and chants that could even remotely be considered related to Native Americans were to disappear tomorrow.
coldsplice 6 years, 9 months ago
let's stop with the "cultural icons" discussion too. none of the offensive mascot issues that i've been hearing about are about "cultural icons" (read our beloved Jayhawks) it's about race. the Jayhawks nickname has nothing to do with this so leave it out.
penguin 6 years, 9 months ago
ya it was an intramural team formed to make a statement about the use of Native American mascots by the local high school...it was selected to get a response out of people and not intended to be serious...or at least that is what you article says
coldsplice 6 years, 9 months ago
odd that there is no mention here of the KC Chiefs either in the article or the postings...sorry but who cares about Tonganoxie changing their names to the Tornadoes or Kiowa-South Barber (wherever that is) changing it to...whatever, when all the kids going to school are wearing a Chiefs hat?
KC's nickname, while at 1st glance may not be as offensive on as "Redskin", is actually very offensive for it's origin which has nothing to do with high ideals or noble intentions of anyone. Naming your team after former KC Mayor Bartle's rank in some obscure Boy Scout fraternal organization is ridiculous.
Kam_Fong_as_Chin_Ho 6 years, 9 months ago
That's because the mascot of the University of Northern Colorado is a bear.
The Fightin' Whites, also called "The Fightin' Whities", were a real basketball team that played at the University of Northern Colorado. Check it out:
http://www.greeleytrib.com/article/20020329/NEWS/103290030
chemegirlie 6 years, 9 months ago
If they are so concerned about high school and college sports, are they planning to extend this to professional sports as well? Our Chiefs playing in Arrowhead would be in big trouble!
penguin 6 years, 9 months ago
That is a joke site for U of Northern Colorado...they are actually the Bears
but on another note they are also the home of a backup punter that wanted a starting job and so he attacked the first string punter on the football team. http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=2585781
I have long hoped that they Hays High Indians would be changed to the Fightin' Volga Germans...I am sure they would endorse that...because there is already the Kennedy Middle School Fightin' Irish in Hays....I believe the each town could go through and pick their own fun stereotypical resident and have fun with it
scenebooster 6 years, 9 months ago
"How about the "Fightin' Whites" from the University of Northern Colorado? I don't hear anybody complaining about that one. Get a load of their "mascot.""
That's because the mascot of the University of Northern Colorado is a bear.
Bubbles 6 years, 9 months ago
This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.
oldvet 6 years, 9 months ago
I noticed the power of the NCAA when the North Dakota Fighting Sioux told the NCAA to shove it... and they hosted major hockey tournaments by simply covering up the images with paper... but of course every person in the stands was wearing the Fighting Sioux mascot on their clothing. When the NCAA takes on the Notre Dame Fighting Irish, then they will show some guts...
The_Internator 6 years, 9 months ago
Does Woodling have so much tenure that those weak arguments against all Native American mascots pass through his superior editors?
The issue is not black and white:
The Florida Seminole tribal counsel gave their stamp of approval for FSU's mascot, chants, etc. I haven't heard many Irish complaining about Notre Dame. How about the Saints or any other team with religious mascots?
Perhaps Woodling would like to see the ban of all mascots involving any type of cultural history:say goodbye to our Jayhawks!
In many cases cultural oversight is needed, but the NCAA and Washington's call for complete abolishment of all these mascots misses the point that there is an opportunity for cultural exchange and learning, see the Seminoles and FSU. Get Haskell involved with the process and see what happens. There are responsible ways to do everything. This includes mascots and sports editorial writing.
Kam_Fong_as_Chin_Ho 6 years, 9 months ago
How about the "Fightin' Whites" from the University of Northern Colorado? I don't hear anybody complaining about that one. Get a load of their "mascot."
http://www.cafepress.com/fightinwhite
pelliott 6 years, 9 months ago
hey if you want to show respect, do it. i would be ashamed to have my family name on a professional or college sports teams. using a caricature of my culture isn't really like showing my name, it is like insulting my culture.
The_Original_Bob 6 years, 9 months ago
I've been calling for years for the removal of offensive sports columnists. Alas, Mista Chuck is still with us.
beekone 6 years, 9 months ago
So, how far behind is the Jayhawk? Do we really want a mascot that reminds us of our country's great shame (slavery/ Civil War)?
Grow the f up, this legislature isn't calming any tides of prejudice because none exist (due to the mascots anyways). All this will do is wipe away decades of school tradition.
SloMo 6 years, 9 months ago
I think a good mascot would be the DANDELIONS, after all, I hear they're virtually indestructable. Oh wait, I'm on the wrong thread!
Mr_Ramirez 6 years, 9 months ago
Lame Chuck
amazonratz 6 years, 9 months ago
The name "Indians" is only part of the problem. "Scalp 'em, Indians!" and the horrible cheer (I am not making this up) "Ooh, ungowa, Indian Power!" were both used when I was in HS with an Indians mascot. At times these, along with the "Whoo-whoo-whooo" chant of hand clapping against mouth were used, even in games against teams that were comprised mainly of Native Americans (we lived a few towns away from a reservation). These contextual aspects were offensive, to say the least. Sometimes it's not just the name that is the problem.
Linda Endicott 6 years, 9 months ago
Until recently, when it suddenly became the agenda of the month (year, whatever), I never gave this a second thought. I don't suppose many of the rest of the posters did, either.
However, I don't see how any of the names mentioned would necessarily be insulting. They have never been used in that way. Mascots are always held in high esteem, and looked on with pride.
Even the term "Indian" isn't automatically insulting. The people were originally called that because poor, misguided Columbus, or the people who sponsored him, thought he had landed in India. How can that be derogatory?
Redskin could be a different matter, but even then, the use of any of the words has always been to show strength, pride, bravery in the face of adversity, and someone (especially for sports teams) who is not easily defeated.
How can concepts like pride, strength, bravery and tenaciousness be seen as derogatory and insulting to anyone?
And every civilization or culture has had their warriors. Not just Native Americans.
kshiker 6 years, 9 months ago
Woodling you are an idiot and a spineless sell-out for joining these silly progressives in this Quixotic campaign to eliminate Native American-like mascots. Shouldn't we be concerned with more important things???
scenebooster 6 years, 9 months ago
"Would our Japanese, Italian or Hispanic (respectively) friends be offended by borrowing words from their language?"
I don not recall our country being founded on the subjugation and genocide of any of these three groups of people...
50YearResident 6 years, 9 months ago
I think the Indians should be happy about teams being names after them. Mascot names are always used with pride and respect. No school or professional team uses a name that is derogatory to that name. All mascot names regardless of origination are uses with the greatest respect. We need to lighten up on this, afer all, who could cheer for a team called the "turds"?
MacHeath 6 years, 9 months ago
I agree with usesomecommonsence. If names such as the "redskins" and mascots such as big-nosed indians where eliminated, I think the problem would go away. Use of these sorts of images just shows disrespect, and ignorance. I dont really care for the image the Celtics use as well (why not pronouce the word correctly?). The tommahawk chop, and playing that song from whatever movies it was from, is just plain stupid.
esubrett 6 years, 9 months ago
I went to Tonganoxie High School and, as the article points out, the town itself is named after an actual Native American Chief. The Chieftain emblem on the helmets and hats are not offensive, they are simply the letter T. That is it. If Tonganoxie changes its mascot then this should open another door, in which other schools like George Washington High and schools like that should also have to change. Don't fold under the PC pressure Tonganoxie School District you will be missing the point. Long live the honoring of Chief Tonganoxie.
75x55 6 years, 9 months ago
Acceptable names might include....
Spineless Chickens
Pontificating Progressives
Heartless Corporate-weasels (no offense to weasels)
The Fighting Logs (we already know the fight song - ala Ren&Stimpy)
usesomesense 6 years, 9 months ago
While I can understand it may well be offensive to have a mascot like "Indians" or "Redskins", how far do we take this? While the "Braves" may refer to a word with an ethnic origin (as ALL words do) the true reference is to Brave Warriors. This would not be unlike calling a team "The Samurai" , "The Guerriero", "The Guerrero" or "The Conquistadors" .
Would our Japanese, Italian or Hispanic (respectively) friends be offended by borrowing words from their language? Hopefully not, as we've been doing it for a very long time now. As a matter of fact, ALL english language words came from roots from other languages or are assimilated whole as new words. My point is this: the use of "Indians" and "Redskins" are ethnic slurs in general and inappropriate to use. The terms "Braves" and "Chieftains" are a show of respect - the desire to aspire to greatness. As far as I know no one has ever called someone an "Brave" to make them feel bad about themself (at least successfully).
It is not unlike calling a team "The Senators" or "The Monarchs".
Let's not get carried away here (as we usually do).
picod 6 years, 9 months ago
Lets not forget about the "Fight'n Indians"
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