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Archive for Monday, January 15, 2007

Shots heard ‘round the area bring calls for gunfire limits

January 15, 2007

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The frequent sounds of gunshots, explosives and even helicopters are trying the patience of people who live close to the Lawrence Fraternal Order of Police lodge near Lone Star Lake.

"It's a lot of noise," said Tim Coldsnow.

The noise, more suited to a war zone than the rural, wooded terrain of southwestern Douglas County, is almost a daily occurrence and can sometimes be heard at night, on weekends and even holidays, neighbors say.

"That's just the way it has been for a long time," said Scott Mesler, president of the Lone Star Neighbors Association.

Mesler has lived near the 100-acre FOP Lodge No. 2 for 17 years. He and other longtime neighbors said they understand the need for police to train and qualify with various weapons. They say they expect to hear gunshots, but during the past several years, the frequency of the noise and related other activities has increased.

Coldsnow bought his property more than a year ago and is preparing a site for a house. He and his family were at the site on Easter Sunday last year when gunfire could be heard after dark. Coldsnow later called Douglas County Administrator Craig Weinaug and inquired about any permits the FOP might have for using its firing range.

No records of any permits were found. The FOP purchased the lodge about 40 years ago.

In the months since Coldsnow's call, Weinaug has met with some Lone Star residents and FOP representatives to see whether there is a compromise that could be worked out concerning the times shooting and other training takes place. So far, the two sides haven't met.

Brandon Meyers, 12, fires a muzzleloader at a target at the Fraternal Order of Police lodge near Lone Star Lake. Some neighbors are upset by the noise coming from the shooting range at the FOP lodge, which is used by law enforcement agencies and other events, such as the Washington Creek Muzzleloader shooting competition.

Brandon Meyers, 12, fires a muzzleloader at a target at the Fraternal Order of Police lodge near Lone Star Lake. Some neighbors are upset by the noise coming from the shooting range at the FOP lodge, which is used by law enforcement agencies and other events, such as the Washington Creek Muzzleloader shooting competition.

"We just want to be good neighbors ourselves and work something out with them," Mesler said. "We want to come to some sort of amicable compromise."

Coldsnow agreed. "We don't by any means want it to close," he said of the lodge.

FOP President Scott Ferris declined to discuss the complaints and referred questions to the organization's attorney, Price Banks. Banks declined to comment. Ferris and Banks also would not comment on what type of activities take place at the lodge.

In addition to hearing shooting, neighbors say they have seen military-type helicopters land and take off from the lodge grounds.

The Lone Star association has about 40 members and was formed about two years ago. Not all members are necessarily bothered by the noise, but at least 20 have attended two recent meetings to discuss the FOP issue, members said.

The Lawrence FOP is more than 50 years old. Its members include more than just officers with the Lawrence Police Department. Its Web site, www.lawrencefop.org, lists its leaders and shows that some belong to other law enforcement agencies, including the Kansas University Public Safety Office, Kansas Highway Patrol and the Kansas Bureau of Investigation. Ferris, the president, is a KBI agent.

Douglas County Sheriff's officers also use the lodge grounds.

The FOP is a fraternal organization. In addition to a firing range, the Web site says it also has a trap shoot house, lodge building, children's playground and a newly constructed shelter house.

The lodge has been the site of nonpolice activities that include gatherings of the Washington Creek Muzzleloaders, a black powder gun club that has staged events there.

Research needs to be done to determine whether the FOP lodge should have permits or zoning approval, Weinaug said. At some point, county commissioners may have to take up the issue, he said.

"While it isn't owned by the county, we are part of its use as a training facility," Weinaug said. "My hope is the neighborhood, the county and the FOP can meet the needs of all three parties."

Comments

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 8 years, 1 month ago

It's absurd to say that because they've been there for 50 years they can do whatever they want. If they want that right, then they should buy the whole neighborhood.

james dick 8 years, 1 month ago

Sounds like the FOP better start talking derectly with folks not refer things to the organization's attorney. Why wait till things go sour?

doc1 8 years, 1 month ago

I agree. get over it. I'm told the Police Officers here changed their qualification this year and each officer only has to qualify once a year now. Stop complaining.

compmd 8 years, 1 month ago

took the words right out of my mouth, bozo. well, you put it better than I would have.

Military style helicopter? What, a Bell 206 or 212 painted green?

The question remains; why the escalation in activity?

cowboy, delegatezero: "The Lone Star association has about 40 members and was formed about two years ago. Not all members are necessarily bothered by the noise, but at least 20 have attended two recent meetings to discuss the FOP issue, members said."

More than 20 out of 40? When was the last time you saw more than half of Lawrence at city hall to discuss some issue?

geekin_topekan 8 years, 1 month ago

This sort of crap reminds of of people who move into Lawrence and then gripe about the homeless people.They were here before you so shut up or move.I have a truck,I'll help you.

hipper_than_hip 8 years, 1 month ago

Isn't there a range in the basement of the law enforcement center that they can use for some of their training/qualification?

Rualresident 8 years, 1 month ago

It is a shame that people who move out into the county have to start up all of this trouble. I have several questions who started up this neighbors association, and how long have they lived in the area. Second out of the 20 residents who were present at the meeting did not have a problem with the FOP. I think the LJ World should do a better job reporting this issue they make it sound like everyone in the area is complaning about this issue. I did not see one residents name who has lived in the area for over 20 year, or for that matter there whole life. It also seems to me you ought to talk with the residents who's land connects to the FOP property and hear there view point. To me it just proves the more people that move to this area want it to be just like the city. My view is if you don't like it move or just deal with it like everyone else has for 40 years, it is sad that it just takes one person who does not even live out there yet has to start this up. Enjoy your land and leave you neigbors alone.

tweetybird2 8 years, 1 month ago

Maybe there is an increase in shooting due to the conceal and carry classes held there.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 8 years, 1 month ago

"Do you apply this same reasoning to Native Americans?"

WTF?

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 8 years, 1 month ago

"Anytime you live in the country, you will hear gunfire. "

Sounds like it's more of a war zone than a little gunfire.

salad 8 years, 1 month ago

Another example of the conservative "I got mine, screw everyone else!" Mentality. What model neighbors. The noise is irritating, but what about proper disposal of all that lead from the spent rounds and shot? I hope they have some means of collecting and responsibly disposing of a real environmental hazard.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 8 years, 1 month ago

I didn't see anywhere that the neighbors are demanding that the FOP leave.

jonas 8 years, 1 month ago

Dambudzo: That's a retarted argument, and it's highly likely that the word "reasoned" has him flummoxed, in that there is very little of that in your idea. It has nothing to do with just "being around." The only way this analogy would work is if the Sioux were still raiding our cattle or scalping people, although admittedly that's somewhat extreme in the other direction. Pick a middle ground and make it your own. At any rate, there is some justification in claiming that the residents have some right, even in regards to existing issues at the time of their move in. It's also highly likely that the previous owners of these properties are going to be closed mouth about the battlefields in these people's backyards, as it would probably hurt the selling price. Sometimes that sort of information is hard to come upon the purchase is made.

A better analogy would be, I just bought a house, and the neighbors stay up until 3 in the morning, playing loud music on one of those big bass-boost sound systems. Do I have a right to complain? After all, they were there when I moved in.

jonas 8 years, 1 month ago

Oh yeah, and no, the native americans are NOT allowed to do whatever the hell they want, even though they've been around since before we took over the establishment. I suppose they might on their reservations, which is as horrid a tradeoff, from all I've heard, that I can imagine.

unite2revolt 8 years, 1 month ago

Maybe if there was a public outdoor range anywhere in Douglas County, it would lessen the usage of this private range.

And people talk to your soon to be neighbors when you are thinking about buying a place. Trusting a realtor to disclose everything, assumes that they are both honest to a fault and all-knowing. I talk to would be neighbors before I sign year long leases.

A simple question like "So do you like living here?" will usually do the trick.

sharron5rs 8 years, 1 month ago

As for hearing gun fire at night.. . Maybe we should order All problems to happen in the daylight hours. Dosen't the law departments have to train at night. Haven't I read lately that there were NIGHT searches in and around our area?? I thought the departments would need a place to train and shoot during NON_DAYLIGHT times. What better place to practice? A place bought 40 yrs ago for that purpose, to help our law inforcement practice and learn.

budwhysir 8 years, 1 month ago

Hmmm, people complaining about gun fire noise so soon after concealed weapons where approved?

Connection maybe? Complainers maybe? How many years has the range been open? How loud does it get?

Can I complain about anything?

dthroat 8 years, 1 month ago

budwhysir -

Why can't you complain about something??? It seems everyone else around here does.

I do not believe concealed carry has anything to do with this. This range has been operating since I have been around the area (25+ years). It has just gotten busier since more departments use it and all the departments now have more people.

I tend to agree with some of the people who say you should know what you are moving into BEFORE you buy. If I remember correctly the FOP even has (had) signs posted about it being a high noise area. What part of that did these people not understand???

I do hope the FOP will try to work with the neighbors though and work out a resonable solution.

mustang 8 years, 1 month ago

Smitty, There's not a shotgun on the market, that if shot from the trap house, would send pellets off the FOP property. If pellets were falling on your head, then you were trespassing.

budwhysir 8 years, 1 month ago

I must admit, I never even considered the fact that guns may be loud. However, I would believe that years ago when the FOP opened, people where probably aware that this would be a place where people would shoot guns. Hence the name FIRING RANGE.

You know, I live in an area that was built prior to me moving into it. To this day I still complain about the fact that there is a stop sign down the street from me and that people actualy use my street to drive on.

Sandman 8 years, 1 month ago

Assault weapons and pistols in downtown Lawrence? Don't do anything.

Trained professionals shooting guns on land they've owned for 50 years out in the County? We must stop them now!!

You really have to love hippie-logic.

budwhysir 8 years, 1 month ago

Now, now, I think everyone is going off base here, the real fact is the noise issue. I dont think anyone complained about the location of the FOP.

The only complaint that I am reading is the fact that people think they can use the FOP as a practice range. The use of this facility causes loud noise. And from what I read, it is happening at all hours of the night only. The noise is the real issue.

Location, and type of business has nothing to do with this article. Why would we have an FOP in an area where people would build houses and try to live.

Tychoman 8 years, 1 month ago

Logic, I gave up on encouraging Dambudzo to explain his reasoning a long time ago, because he obviously doesn't have any reason.

deerehunter 8 years, 1 month ago

I think the range originated for the purpose of training local law enforcement to practice and train. What is a kid with a 50 cal. black powder pistol doing out there? I go out to Lone Star Lake frequently, does the FOP have a sign? Is it public? I tried to find out, but the county has no record of an application by the FOP when the facility was built. The county zoning and special use office said it (FOP range) did not fall within the "grandfather" clause when the laws were enacted in the county. What? Get a permit like everyone else has to. It's the law.

mustang 8 years, 1 month ago

Coproach Smitty's agenda based on his bias is apparent.

deerehunter 8 years, 1 month ago

The article never mentioned that this facility does not have a legal permit. The county is investigating the matter? How would a land or home buyer know there is something like that out there if there is no record of it? Sounds like the county Commission has their hands full with this one.

cowboy 8 years, 1 month ago

This is about a lawrencian moving to the country and wanting it all nice and tidy like lawrence. I can hear the trap range at Cedar Hill from my farm , no big deal , I can hear the deer hunters targeting in , no big deal , move back to the city if you have a problem with it.

deerehunter 8 years, 1 month ago

To hell with permits! How about a hog operation at the northwest corner of 6th and Wakarusa instead of Walmart? Maybe a salvage yard next to Eagle Bend golf course. Zoning? Permits? Naw, to hell with zoning and permits.

Bone777 8 years, 1 month ago

If these people didn't get a break on the price of the land, because of all of the gunfire in the area, it is their own fault.

These are the same people that will next be complaining about the noisy birds, deer eating their landscape, and coyotes eating their pets.

budwhysir 8 years, 1 month ago

Ya I notice in the article they compare it to a war zone. HMM I wouldnt by a piece of property in a war zone.

The best I can figure is that a hog farm in place of Wally world might be a good idea.

I live in the city and currently I am appauled by the noise produced by fire trucks running thier sirens when they are on a call. Cant people have fires in more rural areas.

meburr 8 years, 1 month ago

how about the time when the FOP tried to buy the ajoing land and the land owner jacked the price up 3x the asking price??? The land owner made it impossible for the FOP to purchase. He must not want to be out of there to bad then???

budwhysir 8 years, 1 month ago

Well, that is actualy a lesson in supply and demand and buyer beware. In owning property, you have a right to do with the land as you will unless it is a governnment issue in that case you have very limited say so in the way things are done.

Can you imagine the impact of bringing the FOP to a downtown location???

deerehunter 8 years, 1 month ago

Yo cowboy- So you have no problem with those folks out in Lone Star suggesting to the county commission to move the FOP gun range out to Cedar Hill? No big deal, right? Sounds like those Douglas countians near Lone Star have more than just a few deer hunters sighting in their rifles. Did you read the article? It's a training facility for various law enforcement agencies along with member shooting. Article said Mesler has been there 17 years, "nice and tidy" probably doesn't do much for him or the other residents who have been there a number of years watching this organization get larger every month and the current facility being used more often.

Mike Blur 8 years, 1 month ago

Many of you know that I am a "Native American" so I can assert that no, we cannot do "whatever we want."

In fact, the opposite has proven to be true. I've been stopped by the LPD for simply walking down Mass Street. In broad daylight.

On reservations, laws are frequently more stringently enforced. On the rez a few years ago, I was stopped for doing a 56 in a 55. Yep, you've read that right.

Tim Coldsnow (the complainant in the article) has lived in Lawrence for at least 16 years; that's how long ago he was my landlord. So, he may be a new Lone Star property owner, but he's not new to the area by any means.

And finally, let us not forget William Burroughs, who owned a cabin out at Lone Star. I would wager he was quite simpatico with the FOP gun range out there. It wasn't until these responsible, family-types like Tim Coldsnow who take over property out there and raise a ruckus that we even hear about this.

yankeelady 8 years, 1 month ago

I live near Lonestar and am really surprised there is a "neighborhood association" news to me. Of course we've only been here 19 yrs. We can hear the range from our property and knew it was here when we bought. We also like to shoot skeet on our property. The muzzleloaders are a great bunch of folks trying to enjoy a family hobby and learn some history at the same time. I don't see a problem.
Of course most of the people who have been out here for a while moved out to have some land, room, maybe horses or goats, and privacy. away from the hassles and political bs that living in town can cause. I have more problem with the motorcycles, bicycles, ATV's and loud stereo (from new neighbors) than I do with the FOP. I hate to see it change out here, but it has been getting too civilized for a while and too crowded--time to go further out.

lilchick 8 years, 1 month ago

In the US the FAA does not prohibit landings anywhere. We are often asked can we land in someone's back yard. Most cities have an ordinance against aircraft landings except designated areas such as airports or heliports. A permit is usually required in order to land anywhere else in the city except in emergency. Many tall buildings have helipads by regulation to allow evacuation by helicopter in case of fire. Some of these are approved by the city for normal operations and can be used with the permission of the owner. Once outside the cities you can land anywhere with permission from the owner of the property or the controlling agency in a State or National Park.

taken from: http://www.group3aviation.com/training/helicopter-faq.php

rousseau108 8 years, 1 month ago

everyone seems to automatically assume it was a law enforcement agency training on the Easter night in question. since that would be a holiday, i doubt they would pay employees holiday pay to be out there shooting at night. a more likely scenario is that it was some of the many private citizens that are members of the FOP, and can therefore go out there anytime they want and shoot. but let's blame the police for everything regardless of what facts are known (or not known).

Charles L Bloss Jr 8 years, 1 month ago

This same kind of crap is happening with the Shawnee County Sheriff's Office range. They want to expand the range which is in an old landfill west of Topeka. Now a bunch of neighbors are complaining. They found out that the Sheriff Office never got some kind of permit when they built the range. I remember when the range was built many years ago. The county commission at the time was very pro law enforcement. I am sure that was why no one even thought a permit was needed. The present county commission has ordered them to stop using the range. For now they are using the Topeka PD range. These people raise hell when a deputy sheriff isn't there immediately when they call. Yet they are unwilling to support them when they have to have a place to train. I'm sure they would really piss and moan if a peace officer had to use his firearm and couldn't hit his target due to lack of training, or required practice. This amazes me. In our current situation with the increased danger of terrorism, the public should do anything and everything they can to support law enforcement. They should appreciate the fact that there are more trained law enforcement officers on the street, not piss and moan over this sort of silly crap. The officers must have a place to train. When the range was built there were not nearly as many residences in the area, as there are now. I live in the country. My neighbor has built a range not far from me. I do not get upset when he shoots there because I know him. I know he is very safety oriented, and careful. He is also a better shot than I am because he practices more. At present I only have to qualify once a year. If the public wants us to protect them, they have to support our training requirements. Thank you, Lynn

lilchick 8 years, 1 month ago

I can't find anything about the explosives on private property, however, I didn't see anything in the article about explosives being detonated.

hottruckinmama 8 years, 1 month ago

kind of reminds me of the guy down the road from me who bought land across the road from a junkyard (that had been there for years) built a big house and then spent the next 3 years trying to get the junkyard shut down. it doesn't make much sense. why would you move in and expect the neighborhood to change just for your benefit?

lilchick 8 years, 1 month ago

I agree Lynn. I seriously doubt that there were any permits needed when the FOP built the range.

budwhysir 8 years, 1 month ago

How about requiring a permit in order to complain about loud noises coming from a place where noise is made. Or how bout a special permit for building a house within 1 mile of an FOP. Or how bout a permit for publishing an article complaining about noise within the county line.

Permits, taxes, and add on fees the way of the world

lilchick 8 years, 1 month ago

No no no....permits are only good when doing good for you, because the other people are bad and doing wrong and it is your duty to tell them that they are wrong and you are right. Guns are being shot all hours of the day and night, fer cryin' out loud! By the people who are putting their life on the line to protect us!

Heaven forbid they want to get some extra practice in, and in different scenarios! (i.e. different lighting situations...day vs evening vs night) As far as helicopters go, is it possible that there are law enforcement officials who are trying to get their license and are combining a trip to the range to practice shooting with flying hours.....just a thought.

Scattered 8 years, 1 month ago

Thanks for my daily giggle..."retarted"

Lonestar1 8 years, 1 month ago

This is the first I have heard of a "Lonestar Neighbor Association", and its two years old! Did you guy miss my place when you started the association? As a relative new comer to Lonestar (I've only been here 20 years) the occasional gun fire does not bother me near as much as the crotch rockets that fly out to the lake on a regular basis all summer. In fact, I have been known to step out back and target shoot a bit my self. I dare say I will continue to do just that when ever the mood strikes me.
As far the muzzle loaders, they are nice folks and they enjoy teaching kids about gun safety while having fun. If you have not tried black powder, you should before you condemn it. I do not think such a production should be made about the FOP lodge. I like it, if I didn't, I would not live here.

budwhysir 8 years, 1 month ago

Ya know, I live in town and I remember a few weeks ago that I heard gun fire in town celebrating the new year. I wonder if these people had special permits for this. If they didnt, I know they where breaking the law.

Ya I know, people will tell me they where fireworks but I know the difference. I built my home in an area where people complained about fire works and so I know the difference. We had to realy fight to get this stopped.

We required special permits to be issued for those who even thought about fireworks. You know, a thinking permit that was taxed and funded by the local people who dont like fireworks

For all the serious people out there, this is post is a post about irony and funny probabilities

doc1 8 years, 1 month ago

Smitty. The issue of downtown you mentioned makes no sense. The department has always enforced the laws downtown. It's the newspapers that stood up and took notice and started reporting more of what was going on. The same enforcement was there before all the recent attention. Tremors?

deerehunter 8 years, 1 month ago

Yo lilchick-So you along with cowboy have no problemo with the range being put within 500 to a 1000 feet of your digs? It appears by Douglas County real estate maps that the two parties mentioned are less than a quarter mile from the FOP country club. The neighbor next door popping off a few rounds is probably a bit less noticeable than 30 or so Washington Creek Muzzleloaders firing black powder all weekend. What the hell do they have to do with protecting anyone? Next time my neighbor is pummeling his wife and kids, call the muzzleloaders to help keep the peace. Nice folks havin fun with their kidz, bet you Mr. Mesler & Mr. Coldsnow don't give a damn how good of folks they are or how much fun their having.

motomom 8 years, 1 month ago

i live out there. gunfire as early as 6:00a.m. and as late as 10:30p.m........daytime only hours would be nice. NOW the hamm rock quarry is setting off two explosions a day for more gravel......i thought the country was supposed to be quiet............

monkeywrench1969 8 years, 1 month ago

An interesting side note. One of the"military helicopter" crews that land out there for training purposes was supporting the 4th Infantry and backed up the helios that transported Saddam when he was captured in his spider hole.

After reading about all of the guns at Last Call. I think the police should get as much training as possible.

Basic Math 50 is greater than 2. Which should have more say.

lilchick 8 years, 1 month ago

deerehunter: Honestly, I would not have a problem at all with a range being in my back yard....it'd be much closer to practice! In fact, while growing up my back yard WAS my shooting range. We would sometimes have large groups of friends over to shoot trap and would shoot all day constantly. My hubby and I are wanting to put an indoor range in our basement when we build, and an outdoor rifle and shotgun setup in the back yard. I honestly think that if you are complaining about living too close to a gun range or rock quarry that 'makes too much noise', you didn't do your homework before buying property.
The muzzleloaders aren't "protecting" anyone...right now. These families are teaching their children how to respect and care for firearms. (Cleaning a muzzleloader properly can easily take a few hours.) And they are possibly raising the next generation of officers who will protect us. My hubby and I are members of a muzzleloading club and attend primative camps with teepees, cooking over a campfire, the whole 1840's shebang. The history behind it and safety that is stressed is well worth looking into before you start to get grouchy about a club.
motomom:
For farmers and many other working people, 6am-10:30pm are the daylight working hours.

lilchick 8 years, 1 month ago

Also, this is rather off subject, but if anyone knows the Brandon pictured shooting a muzzleloader, tell him to check his eye dominance, as it appears he is left eye dominant while shooting right handed. (look at how the eye is scrunched up and the head is cocked way too far to his right.) It is difficult to shoot a right handed muzzleloader left handed, so if he doesn't have the access to leftie stuff, he should look into wearing a blinder covering his left eye when shooting. Hope someone can pass that on to him....thanks!

lilchick 8 years, 1 month ago

And if he were to start wearing eye protection...like he should be, it would be easy to tape over the left eye. Simple and inexpensive.

Kelly Anderson 8 years, 1 month ago

FOP also hosts Hunter Safety ON THE WEEKENDS....I totally support all that FOP does!!!!! Knowledge is power. Also, learned the hard way....Two sides to ALL stories.....

deerehunter 8 years, 1 month ago

Just got off the horn with a cop pal of mine from DG county. Seems as though the facility is and has been referred to as a "Regional Training Center" for various law enforcement departments including the FBI, KBI, Johnson County Sheriff, Shawnee County Sheriff, to name a few he rattled off. This doesn't sound like shooting rusty cans in yer backyard or flingin some bluerock for your grandson to shoot with his hand me down .410. A number of Douglas County's Finest are wondering why a facility has not been built by the city, county or state that is up to snuff with other state of the art practice facilities around the country. Sounds like another reactive situation by DG county instead of being proactive.

monkeywrench1969 8 years, 1 month ago

Also I believe I have seen pics of helicopters landing in the middle of intersections for accidents in the city and the hospital on Main. How many neighbors in the city have a problem with that.

monkeywrench1969 8 years, 1 month ago

Deerhunter

That is an easy answer. How many stories do you see in the paper where the cops are asking for money foo updated technology etc...and people fight tooth and nail to keep them from getting it becasue it is too much money. City has a budget and if it does not fit in the cops don't get it. Plus the fire department has gotten a bunch of new stations in the millions.

Being familiar with material, labor, other manufacturing fees, EPA requirments and other structure issues, it would cost a lot more to be a state of the art training facility that no one in this city would support in the first place.

They can't even get the k10 bypass settled. It has been raging on since I was in college in the 80s when they were trying to save an non existent frog

deerehunter 8 years, 1 month ago

Wonder if this situation would qualify for any Homeland Security funding. Seems right in line with what they are trying to do.

motomom 8 years, 1 month ago

lilchik.....we did lotsa homework before we moved....this is a first for the quarry to be using such large amounts of dynamite to produce gravel. they have been fine neighbors up until the bombing and watching our foundation slip...... just didn't want you to think ya knew it all...............

monkeywrench1969 8 years, 1 month ago

This is only an assumption on my part but with the number of lawsuits from everything for spilling cups of coffee in your lap to "why didn't you tell me this circular saw would cut off my arm if it got too close" type of claims the cops may be increasing the amount of time they practice shooting so they don't get sued for shooting the wrong person.

The minute they can't pull off shooting a bad guy in the head with eight hostages surrounding them while doing their best one handed Mel Gibson Lethal Weapon/Martin Riggs shoot and roll the public (and Smitty and company) will be all over them for not being better trained in shooting. I know Smitty was complaining about the "lack of training" on other threads.

Knowing the number of stories on guns in the Last Call area just makes me wonder when the cops will get in a shoot out with some one down there.

MrSnowman 8 years, 1 month ago

Before I get any more flack from the friends I hunt with and grief from my children, I would like to make it known that 1) I am not anti-gun, anti-NRA, or anti-law enforcement and love to hunt and shoot. 2) My dad has been in Law Enforcement for nearly 30 years and is still going 3) I have been a resident of Douglas County for almost 17 years and don't plan on leaving anytime soon. I did not intend for the Journal World quote to sound like I was whining, complaining or bitching as some have put it. To put it simply, I called the county the day after Easter last year to ask if there were shooting hours. That's it. When the paper asked me to describe what I have heard, I said "at times it is a lot of noise", which, if you live very near the range, at times, it is. A number of other neighbors living closer to the range, and have been for a number of years, are concerned the range has grown over the years to a point it has become annoying at times with the increased amount of usage. The fact that the firing range existed before we purchased the property was not disclosed and I don't know for sure if it had to be. No matter what, we have a beautiful piece of property in an area we plan on living on for years to come. The comment "this is just another city person trying to make things his way" couldn' t be farther from the truth, I just asked if there were any shooting hours. Thanks TColdsnow

yankeelady 8 years, 1 month ago

It sounds like the JW is trying to stir up a tempest in a teapot, must have been a slow newsday. The range can be disruptive, especially with full automatic fire at night, but it doesn't last long. As has been said earlier, they have been here longer than most of us, and we knew (or should have known) they were there. The muzzle loaders are not out there everyweekend, and they usually shot during the day. I agree with momtomom, the quarry has been the biggest surprise, I'm just glad we aren't close enough to have anything more damaging than hysterical dogs. This whole area is growing fast (too fast?) Last year we could only hear the whipporwills early in the morning, too much noise at night. Not to mention the big new house on the hillside where most of them nested. We moved to the country for peace, quiet and space, unfortunately it is getting more scarce, but it was inevitable.

ranger73 8 years, 1 month ago

If I recall-the military type helicopter that was out there was for the Girl Scouts that had an event out there one weekend. I thought it was rather cool to see a chinook coming in low and slow over the lake-broke up a rather uneventful fishing outing.
Leave it to the ljw to take a quote out of context. I think the more appropriate story should be why they consider this a no wake lake but allow water skiing on it. I guess water skiing doesn't leave a wake.

roadrash 8 years, 1 month ago

Maybe before a building permit is issued in the county the prospective resident should attend mandatory classes on what might be encountered when moving to the country. ie gravel roads,gunfire,hunting,farm machinery,etc. their expensive homes drive up the property costs for the heritage familys. if you don't want a rural lifestyle stay in Lawrence where the city can protect you from yourself.

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