Archive for Friday, January 5, 2007

Missouri St. should get the boot, KU fan says

Road near stadium should bear coach Fambrough’s name instead, some argue

January 5, 2007

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Don Fambrough loathes Missouri.

That's why some say it's fitting that a portion of Missouri Street - too close for comfort to the football stadium - be renamed to honor the Kansas University football icon.

"He's been the Kansas-Missouri rivalry," said David Lawrence, the color commentator for Kansas University football and host of Rock Chalk Sports Talk on 1320 KLWN. "That's why this whole symbolism of his name replacing Missouri seems so perfect."

Kansas University student Tim Burgess, aided by Lawrence and a growing faction of supporters, proposes changing the name of Missouri Street from Ninth Street to 11th Street, where it stops near the stadium, in honor of the former KU football player and coach.

The idea has yet to be proposed formally to the city.

Idea

Burgess, a sophomore from Lawrence, said his idea isn't new.

"I've talked about it for years," he said. "Other people have talked about it."

But he's been trying to get the ball rolling recently. Burgess was a recent guest on Lawrence's radio show where he discussed the idea.

He called the close proximity of Missouri Street to the stadium "annoying."

"I think a lot of places wouldn't put up with it," Burgess said. "The horseshoe in Ohio - if there was a Michigan Street right next to it, it would not have lasted nearly as long as Missouri Street."

But he said the move is more about bringing recognition to Fambrough than erasing the Missouri presence.

If Tim Burgess has his way Missouri might become Don Fambrough street. Burgess thinks it's time that Don Fambrough be thought more of and  changing the street just might do it.

If Tim Burgess has his way Missouri might become Don Fambrough street. Burgess thinks it's time that Don Fambrough be thought more of and changing the street just might do it.

"There has always been a glaring problem in Lawrence and at the university that nothing has been named after Don Fambrough," he said. "I think that's a big problem, because I think he's been one of the biggest contributors to our football program."

Ideally, Burgess said, he'd like to change the name of the whole street, but he'll settle for just a portion.

Coach Fam

Fambrough, who has retired and lives in Lawrence, has coached or played in five of the bowl games that KU has gone to.

He played for KU in 1946 and 1947, earning All-Big Six honors. In 1947, he helped lead the team to the Orange Bowl.

He was an assistant coach for nearly two decades before becoming head coach in 1971 and leading the team until 1974. The team went to the Liberty Bowl in 1973.

After 1974, Fambrough became assistant director of the Williams Fund and head coach again from 1979 to 1982. The team went to the Hall of Fame Bowl in 1981.

"He's kind of the spirit of the Jayhawk in my mind," Lawrence said. "We've never really done anything for him, and there's no doubt he's deserving. There couldn't be a person more deserving than him."

Fambrough, who has no bones about voicing his dislike for Missouri, was tickled to hear that people would even think of such a idea.

"That would be just the greatest thrill you could ask for to have a street here in Lawrence, Kansas, named after you," he said. "I'd probably drive up and down there all day long. I've never received any honor like that."

Logistics

City Manager David Corliss said the City Commission would have to adopt an ordinance to change the name of the street.

And that would require some public discussion, including gathering feedback from those who live or own property on the street.

Former Jayhawk football coach Don Fambrough greeted KU head coach Mark Maningo, before Thursday mornings open practice.

Former Jayhawk football coach Don Fambrough greeted KU head coach Mark Maningo, before Thursday mornings open practice.

Sarah Schmille, a Lawrence native who rents an apartment on the stretch, said she doesn't favor such a change.

"It's just annoying and frustrating to get used to something and have it all changed," she said.

Corliss said the city would coordinate any change with the post office and with public safety.

He said the change could be an inconvenience for residents who would have to change their addresses. And it is one of Lawrence's state streets.

"The naming of the state streets is an important part of Lawrence's history," he said. "That may be of some concern to the public."

In 2003, the Lawrence Homebuilders Association proposed renaming 15th Street west of Iowa as Bob Billings Parkway. The effort was successful, with the name officially changed in August 2004.

"It's not without precedent that we've renamed a city street that has been long-standing with its name to a different name," he said.

Whatever the future holds, Fambrough said he's flattered.

"Regardless of what happens, I am indeed honored that some of our students at KU would think enough of me to even suggest such a thing," he said.

Comments

bthom37 9 years, 4 months ago

How long til a street in Columbia gets named 'Quantrill Street'?

badger 9 years, 4 months ago

What a dumb idea.

The state streets are part of Lawrence's history. There's more to Lawrence than it just being a good place for KU students to collect parking tickets, buy beer, and throw up in the alleys. It's suggestions like this, "Hey, guys, some coach in KU's history is totally more important than Lawrence's history or steps taken to recognize US history!" that drive home why exactly many of the locals might consider some of the students an arrogant, insular, irritating nuisance.

brian87 9 years, 4 months ago

This is just ridiculous. I'm all for honoring a guy but renaming a street that has stood the test of time for over 150 years is just a waste of time and money. Since this is a KU student wanting to honor a KU coach then why don't they rename one of KU's roads and not a Lawrence public street.

I suggest McCook Dr or the Maine St extension south of 11th St and I would even settle for the renaming of 11th between West Campus Road and Mississippi or Mississippi south of 11th since that's technically on campus but renaming Missouri St because of someone's "hatred" is just ignorant.

I'm all for commerating but let's think of something else.

jayhawk_josh 9 years, 4 months ago

I am positive, ilkeeze, that Mr. Burgess is not saying the sign has any relation to the 'modern border rivalry', and I also know that a sign bearing the name 'missouri' has NO historical significance. We all realize what the bleeding kansas was but the fact is the current sign has no ties to it.

What Tim Burgess is proposing is to make the sign mean something by naming it after a person who has positively effected the community (because KU is a huge part of this community) of Lawrence for 60 years, and has kept the fire burning under one of the greatest rivalries in the country.

And for the rest of you who say that its too much trouble to remember a street change, then suggest that we re-name the entire city in alphabetical order, yea that would actually be way way more trouble... think about it....come on now...

Coach Fam is a great man and a legend, if you think naming a few blocks after him is too much trouble for you: close your eyes and your mouths and let Mr. Burgess and the rest of us get this done because it is the least we can do to for Fam considering all he has done for us. ROCK CHALK

secretresistance 9 years, 4 months ago

Sounds like "Freedom Fries" to me. The state names are part of what I liked about L-town when I moved here.

govols 9 years, 4 months ago

This is a great idea! Where do I sign up?

The_Voice_of_Reason 9 years, 4 months ago

From east to west..... Oregon, Delaware, Penn, New Jersey, New York, Conn, Rhode Island, New Hampshire, Mass, Vermont, Kentucky, Tenn, Ohio, Louisanna, Indiana, Mississippi, ILL, Alabama, Maine, "Missiery", Arkansas, Mich, Flordia, Minn, Wisconsin, Colorado, and Cali..... sorry I got bored....

ilkeeze 9 years, 4 months ago

Are you kidding me with this?! The reasoning behind there being a Missouri street to begin with has no corelation with a "modern border rivalry". Now, if this argument had any basis outside the realm of athletic mentality POSSIBLY it could be substantiated.

Mkh 9 years, 4 months ago

I gotta agree with ilkeeze, this is certainly riduclous. To ignore the importance of the history of Missouri--Lawrence for a football coach seems extremely trite.

average 9 years, 4 months ago

What's the deal with Virginia, Carolina, and Maryland streets as afterthoughts, and no Georgia at all? Civil war era?

Always fun to send a KU freshman to a house party on Georgia or Nevada, or Hawaii streets, though.

oldgoof 9 years, 4 months ago

Missouri to Fambrough is too easy. I think it ought to be renamed "Paige Arena Street" to recompense the Walmart family for their loss of a naming opportunity.

oldgoof 9 years, 4 months ago

And, I think Tim Burgess ought to have an identity theft opporunity to deal with the real world.

Mike Blur 9 years, 4 months ago

Half the streets in Lawrence (Christine, Jordan, Elizabeth) are named after some developer's kid.

Naming a street after Coach Fam would be a more fitting tribute.

Harry_Manback 9 years, 4 months ago

Please...this is lame! What a waste of time and energy! Just think what would happen if people spent more of this wasted money and effort doing something that actually benefitted the community.

I remember when I first moved here I wished the state names went in alphabetical order, so it would be easier to get around...lol.

quaziflash 9 years, 4 months ago

I think that it's a good idea to honor a legendary coach that has done a lot for KU. I personally know him and think that he is a wonderful man and deserves recognition for his achievements. He had coached many of my family members and other people that I know in the community. The city has changed a street name befoe for Bob Billings, why not Fambrough? He deserves it just as much as Billings, Naismith, and the Phog.

mae 9 years, 4 months ago

nice for the guy, but this is not good.

we want people to know the history of america and not a one time coach. does anyone know the order of the states anymore?

he does deserve recognition, lets do a perpendicular street next to the stadium?

nice story ljworld. nice.

makes me want to steal some street signs, get them autographed and cause accidents. naismith drive really should be renamed to roy williams boulevard also.

/shaking head

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 9 years, 4 months ago

Renaming a street for a mediocre coach whose only claim to notoriety is a fanatical and ridiculous obsession about a neighboring state would be absurdly stupid.

kcwarpony 9 years, 4 months ago

"Albert D. Searl, a 23-year-old civil engineer from Massachusetts, spent the fall surveying Lawrence and platting the streets. Searl's plan, probably suggested by the Aid Company, imposed a two-dimensional grid over the three-dimensional landscape. His main streets lay in straight lines crossed at right angles by secondary streets to make rectangular blocks, a plat that reflected city planning trends of the day. Although raised in Massachusetts where most streets and highways followed the lay of the land, winding around hills and curving with the river, Searl's new town echoed William Penn's gridiron plan for Philadelphia."

"The Aid Company may have instructed Searl to look to Philadelphia for the grid, but they rejected Penn's ideas about street naming. The common European model of naming streets for the King or a prominent personage offended Penn's Quaker sense of equality. He honored, instead, the native trees of the Schulkyll River valley, naming the streets Mulberry, Elm and Pine and numbering the cross streets. The Aid Company followed the ideas of L'Enfant who, in designing the nation's capital, named major streets after the states. Searl's map named the north-south streets for the thirteen original colonies, beginning with the proposed main street of Massachusetts and stretching east. Streets continued west as states in the order they were added to the Union. Cross streets in Lawrence honored Revolutionary War heroes---Pinckney, Henry, Lee and Winthrop."

http://www.kshs.org/sesquicentennial/series_2004october.htm

SB1 9 years, 4 months ago

The Fambrough era wasn't all fun and joy. We had frequent situations of his team members assaulting people in nightclub parking lots (remember Gammons?), damaging the Jayhawk Towers apartments repeatedly, and having numberous interactions with local law enforcement (including an electronics theft ring). Seem to recall some troubles with the NCAA during his time too (via John Hadl among others). Probably better choices out there...like leave it as it is now.

sourpuss 9 years, 4 months ago

For those that say "who knows what order the states entered the union?" well, memorize the order of the streets in Lawrence and you've killed two birds.

Personally, I grew up in East Lawrence and was happy to have states and numbers for names of streets instead of rediculous yuppie street names like "Deer Run", "Oak Slope" or "Meadowview". There is never a meadow. They should name them "Beige Lane" or "Cookie Cutter Road"

As for Fambrough Lane, change it or not... I bet it will make no difference to the world save for causing around 30 people to spend money on new driver's licenses. Would the city compensate them? I think not....

aeroscout17 9 years, 4 months ago

jayhawk_josh wrote "...I also know that a sign bearing the name 'missouri' has NO historical significance. We all realize what the bleeding kansas was but the fact is the current sign has no ties to it."

Wrong! The streets were named in the order of the admission as states. That is historical as that is the way the citizens of old Lawrence decided to do it.

This whole renaming thing has to stop; it is idiotic. I remember traveling in eastern Europe after the downfall of communism. All the old streets/bridges that were renamed after communist party officials were being retruned to their original names. Only problem was, the only maps available still had the communist names on them. I was lost more than once!

classclown 9 years, 4 months ago

Since most people seem to think this town is nothing if it weren't for KU, why not change the town's name to KUville? Then everything in town could be named after someone or something having to to with KU no matter how trite it is.

Is this a town with a college in it? Or is it a college with it's own town?

BunE 9 years, 4 months ago

Maybe we should rename Massachusetts St, Roy Williams memorial parkway?

bastet 9 years, 4 months ago

The streets are not in the order of union admitance. That is local folklore.

aeroscout17 9 years, 4 months ago

bastet, I stand corrected...you are right! There are a number of mistakes if you look at the dates of admittance vs. the street order.

However, I still stand against renaming the street. I know some people think football is extremely important, meaning players and coaches are extremely important (and should be revered and honored???) Give me a break. Leave the street alone.

Dang, if it is that big of a problem, why did he/they coach/play at a stadium that has a street so close to one of the biggest rivals?

aeroscout17 9 years, 4 months ago

biggunz, see my first post and think larger. Maps, not only city wide, but nation and worldwide need to be changed. Oh yeah phone books and all the computer databases (trying getting a pizza delivered after the name change). Checking accounts, personal mailing lists, etc., etc.

Larry 9 years, 4 months ago

Actually classclown - I'd agree that Lawrence is a "college with it's own town." Think of the money that KU brings to Lawrence. Lawrence would be a speck if not for KU. Look at Leavenworth! Tons of history, but I'll bet the citizens of current day Leavenworth would have preferred that their ancestors had chose a university rather than a federal prison back when the choice was on the table. The difference between the two towns in terms of cleanliness, infrastructure, SES is incredible.

Am I wrong here or are we talking about a few blocks of Missouri Street. I think I would say NO if we were talking about renaming the entire length of the street, but it is only a few blocks. How much fun would that be and think of the national attention that would bring to Lawrence Univer....opps, I mean KU and the rivalry with Missouri. I can see ABC video taping Coach Fam walking down Fam street and showing it Thanksgiving weekend during the Nationally televised KU-MU game. What a story and what a way to put it to our friends across the border. After all, KU and Coach Fam have done a ton more for Lawrence than the State of Missouri.

santabhawk 9 years, 4 months ago

The bottom line is...

Anyone against this idea is a racist and would like the return of slavery.

That is what the border war was and is about.

The people against this idea should be ashamed of themselves. Lawrence is a center for free thinking and liberal ideals in a progressively backwords moving society.

Including renaming a street.

Fambrough may not be the best option for renaming but at least it is an option. The city of Lawrence should distance itself from the god-awful racist state of missouri as much as possible.

chucknoblet 9 years, 4 months ago

This would be hilarious, if it weren't so annoying. How self-absorbed does this kid have to be to think that 2 blocks of families/residents should be inconvenienced just for his fantasy of some kind of manufactured athletic rivalry. Believe it or not, kid, some people have lives BEYOND following sports. Busy lives, in fact, where it would be hugely inconvenient to go around changing your address on stationary, passports, drivers licenses, medical records, tax records, insurance records, bills, online accounts, home-business registries, credit cards, bank records and whatever else. Oh sure, for some kid and other sports fans that have a lot of disposable time on their hands, it's no big deal, but for the people affected who might have busy lives with families and jobs and caring for sick or elderly relatives plus whatever other obligations they have in their lives, it's not so easy to spend all the hours sending out mail informing of address changes, calling and sitting on hold for hours trying to talk to businesses and others to inform them of adress changes, or logging on and going to all the websites where they have registered addresses, plus paying for new checks, stationery, etc.

feefifofum 9 years, 4 months ago

Renaming the street is a great idea. Too bad we can't name the alleys -- Norm Stewart Dumpway - -- Billy Tubbs Back Alley -- My God - I agree that all the resistance to this idea is unexpected. Do it - it will become part of the rivalry lore. Norm is always proud to talk about not spending any money in Kansas - so let's not have any stupid street called Missouri too close to our school.

H_Lecter 9 years, 4 months ago

The reason we have street names is to AID in navigation. Changing sections of the streets does the opposite.

The Bob Billings signs need to be removed as it is. Bob was a good person, but name a park or something else for him. Even a new unnamed street would be fine.

Lawrence street names are too disjointed as it is. Atchison Ave. is a good example. It is split into three unconnected sections.

The streets are named in thf order they came into the Union, So I think Fambrough would be just before Hawaii and Alaska. Again, find a street that doesn't already have a name.

feefifofum 9 years, 4 months ago

ChuckNoblet - by your reasoning about all the changes someone would have to make - nobody should ever move!! I guess we could take up a fund raising drive to help the poor people that would have to notify the credit card companies, websites, etc. that their address has been changed - you, know - like they have to do when they move.

joeaverage 9 years, 4 months ago

In a rivalry, the best way to make a point is to play our best game and beat them. When we lose it just looks like sour grapes when we do stuff like change street names. This lack of class is the same exhibited by those that tear down the goalposts every time we win. We should hang our laurels on winning, not crassness.

nbnozzy 9 years, 4 months ago

Unbunch your panties people. If it were you being the person having a street renamed in your honor, you'd go for it. And let me be the first to call you a "LIAR if you say otherwise.

lildos 9 years, 4 months ago

This may have been the most useless front page article ever. What a stupid, retarded, useless, idiotic idea. Worst than having the idea is actually writing an article about the stupidity

nbnozzy 9 years, 4 months ago

none2..... I shall be the first to call you a "LIAR".

next?.........

Jamesaust 9 years, 4 months ago

No, bad idea.

I do like naming a new street somewhere after Fambrough though.

I also note that, unlike most Kansas towns, Lawrence has no Kansas Street. (Is that because some hyper sports fan thought it would honor K-State?)

pimp11 9 years, 4 months ago

Posted by BunE (anonymous) on January 6, 2007 at 8:53 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Maybe we should rename Massachusetts St, Roy Williams memorial parkway?

Why in the hell name something after that dumba$$???

Chicago_JHawk 9 years, 4 months ago

"I also note that, unlike most Kansas towns, Lawrence has no Kansas Street. (Is that because some hyper sports fan thought it would honor K-State?)"


Lawrence does have a Kansas Street. Kansas, Oklahoma, Montana, Utah, Nebraska, and Dakota streets all exist in the neighborhood just SE of 23rd/Lousiana.

Chicago_JHawk 9 years, 4 months ago

Why not make various streets "Honorary __ Street", like lots of other cities do (Chicago, for example)? The addresses, maps, etc would still go by the original name, but a second street sign goes on the pole under the official name.

The LJW posts are always completely black or white. There IS a gray area to be found...

compmd 9 years, 4 months ago

This is idiocy.

Didn't the street exist before the stadium?

bearded_gnome 9 years, 4 months ago

"Former Jayhawk football coach Don Fambrough greeted KU head coach Mark Maningo, before Thursday mornings open practice."

oops.

bearded_gnome 9 years, 4 months ago

Logicsound, this event never happens! write this down on your calendar...I'm actually agreeing with you on something! completely and without reservation: you are absolutely correct here.

"Posted by logicsound04 ( anonymous) on January 6, 2007 at 12:56 p.m. ( Suggest removal)

I still haven't heard a good reason to do this other than the idiotic, "I don't like Missouri, so they shouldn't be allowed to have a street named after them so close to our stadium"

People, the fact that the street in front of the stadium is named Missouri has NOTHING TO DO WITH THE GODDAMN RIVALRY. Collegiate athletics rivalries are only fun if they stay within their realm of relevance. Changing the name of ANY infrastructure-related thing in Lawrence for the sole purpose of a sports rivalry is not only moronic, it is a waste of money. "

bearded_gnome 9 years, 4 months ago

Please city poobahs! return 15th street's name to that area west of Iowa! if you do rename MO st., then do the entire street to make some geographical sense, but I oppose the name change at all! stop the foolishness.


otherwise, I'll put in for "Bearded Gnome way" for that curved part of Connecticut st. from 15th street, just the one block...that's what I want! seems rather appropose.

Jersey_Girl 9 years, 4 months ago

The state names of the streets are part of Lawrence's history, whether or not they really are in order of admittance to the Union. I'm strongly against changing part of any of the state streets to any other names. I agree that if street names are to be changed to honor KU alumni or coaches, it should be done on KU property. I'm sorry, but I have absolutely no idea who Bob Billings is or why 15th street west of Iowa was changed for him. Most people who have been around longer than the 3 or 4 years since it was changed still refer to it as 15th and probably always will. If we're honoring KU's greatest, where's Wilt Chamberlain Street? Or Danny Manning Avenue? Gale Sayers Boulevard? Clyde Lovellette Lane? I could go on, but I think you all the picture.

lawrencelady 9 years, 4 months ago

Who named that street anyways? Lawrence has always had bad blood with concerns to Missouri. I think a name change is long over due, especially a dishonorable one. Is there a Kansas St. in Columbia? Yeah right. I agree with Jersey Girl about the name though. It should be Sayers St.

EXks 9 years, 4 months ago

Change it!

...... and while we're at it rename downtown Massachusetts St. to KANSAS Street, Avenue or Boulevard.

lawrencelady 9 years, 4 months ago

What's the emotional tie to Missouri St? I see what you're sayng about tradition, but having Missouri St. right next to the stadium has nothing to do with our heritage. Renaming it to something meaningful would. Renaming Mass and renaming Mizzou is the same thing to you? Lighten up, drama queen.

Jersey_Girl 9 years, 4 months ago

lawrencelady - Missouri Street was named by Lawrence's founding families; THAT'S the emotional tie to Missouri Street. It has everything to do with Lawrence heritage. You're not much of a Lawrence lady if that means nothing to you.

lawrencelady 9 years, 4 months ago

The founding families? That's what you're going with? Did the founding families like Jayhawk football? Did they hate the Tigers? Or did they just use an unoriginal system of naming their streets? I don't think any of the founding families would mind if their children changed the names of thier streets. The amount of pot holes we've let develop might offend them a little though.
I'm not much of a Lawrence lady because I didn't know the "founding families" named our streets? Did anyone else know about the "founding families"? If not, Jersey Girl has a pretty broad opinion to make about you.

Harry_Manback 9 years, 4 months ago

Wow...like I said before, what if everyone took all this stupid energy and put it to something of use? Nope...never gonna happen. It's far too easy to b*tch about useless things than do anything.

lawrencelady 9 years, 4 months ago

Okay, I'm not as big on Lawrence heritage as I thought I was. Obviously there's a piece of the puzzle I'm missing. What are the historical reasons you cited above? Who are the founding families Jersey cited above? If we're just going to sling abstracts as absolutes then we could disprove gravity.

lawrencelady 9 years, 4 months ago

Does anyone else see this as an awesome opportunity for us to do something as a community? We could really use the unity right now. Nostalgia seems to be keeping us in the stone age while the rest of the state is growing up. This idea is just a good metaphor for exactly what's wrong. Street names can't be changed because they were named that way a long time ago. What a display of foreward thinking.

Jersey_Girl 9 years, 4 months ago

lawrencelady - The city/town of Lawrence was founded 11 years before KU was. The football program was started 26 years after that. So, no, the founding families probably weren't big KU football fans, although I have no clue what that has to do with anything. Although it has been suggested that it is only local folklore, the state street names are laid out east to west in the order in which they enter the union. Does that sound like the piece of the puzzle you're missing? Oh, and a lot of people know about the naming of the state streets (read ALL the posts above). Lawrence has a rich history and Missouri Street is part of it. It was here during the Civil War and Quantril's Raid. To me, that means it has historical value and should not change.

Jersey_Girl 9 years, 4 months ago

lawrencelady - Again you show a complete lack of knowledge of Lawrence. We're the most liberal and "grown up" city in the state. Topeka is our state capital and it's an embarrassment. Again, Lawrence is a rich history and I don't think that should be thrown away for a coach of a sport that KU has never really excelled at. Pick a street on campus or name one of any new streets popping up as Lawrence expands. There are a multitude of options that don't have to include diminishing Lawrence's origins.

Rck_Chlk_JHawk 9 years, 4 months ago

I'm all for it...let's rename Carolina to "Traitor Way" while we're at it to honor Dean Smith and Roy Williams.

lawrencelady 9 years, 4 months ago

I know why the states are named in the order of their admitance to the union, and it has more to do with the reason they named the steets first and up. There was no communal tradition or reason to name them anything else. Now there is. Grow up, only children are this afraid of change. If the unoriginal names of our state streets is the strongest tie to our roots you guys see then.... zzzz. oh, I'm sorry, I just fell asleep a little bit. No, no it's not that this unreasonable sentiment is boring me.... it's not you, it's me, I must be narcoleptic or something.

lawrencelady 9 years, 4 months ago

You think naming a street "traitor way" after Roy and Dean, two of the NCAA's most honorable coaches, is the same as commemorating Mizzou St. to a legendary football coach? I can just feel the communal love.

Jersey_Girl 9 years, 4 months ago

lawrencelady - you might want to get that narcolepsy checked; it's causing you to miss parts of posts. Missouri Street is part of Lawrence's historic past and not just because the founding families named it. Why is so important to change it? Why not honor him with his own brand new street?

And does anyone else wonder why this kid even cares? He wasn't even born when Lambrough was at KU.

lawrencelady 9 years, 4 months ago

What's more Lawrence tradition than KU athletics? And who's our biggest rival? And what's the name of the street next to our stadium? I'm only talking to you like thisbecause youreferenced my narco comment which had nothing to do with anything that I said. Does anyone else wonder why Jersey questions a KU student's interest in KU's history?

compmd 9 years, 4 months ago

Why am I not surprised that sports nuts don't know history? How many of you actually know why the main downtown street in Lawrence is Massachusetts Street? Look it up.

Chicago_JHawk, the honorary street name system in Chicago is amusingly dangerous. The system is set up in such a way that if an honorary street sign is damaged or destroyed, it will be replaced sooner than the actual street sign. Its a good thing those signs are well attached nice and high.

Jersey_Girl 9 years, 4 months ago

KU basketball is more tradition than KU football. At least we've won National Championships in basketball. I've always thought K-State was our biggest rival. And I believe the street next to our stadium is Mississippi. I just think there are any number of people who deserve a street named after them more than Lambrough. And there's more to Lawrence than KU.

compmd 9 years, 4 months ago

lawrencelady said: "Does anyone else wonder why Jersey questions a KU student's interest in KU's history?"

KU != Lawrence -> KU History != Lawrence history.

I think that she's having trouble with those inequalities. Jersey_Girl definitely understands them.

Jersey_Girl 9 years, 4 months ago

Oh, I know this is going to cause a few coronaries, but there IS more to life than KU athletics.

lawrencelady 9 years, 4 months ago

The order of the state streets is in that order for the same reason that the numbered streets are in their order. What does that have to do with Lawrence? Nothing. It's the same system all towns use. Unoriginal, boring. The actual name of the street matters less than the act of changing it right now. Sayers St. would be really cool and when you're on Sayers St. you could be like "Cool, I'm in Lawrence." By your rational we never should have renamed Michigan to Naismith after the Field House was built. Let's start making our own history, something with some history in it.
I never said KU history equals Lawrence history, but the street in question has to do with the football stadium. And Mississippi isn't even a rival of ours. They're not even the same conference. Is that really an appropriate comparison?

not_dolph 9 years, 4 months ago

This is the most stupid thing I have ever heard.

bug167 9 years, 4 months ago

To those of you who didn't manage to read the article....Tim Burgess is a SOPHMORE not a freshman and is entitled to his opinion just like you.

However, since I'm here already, these are MY suggestions:

Change Sunnyside Avenue to "Kiss My Big Blue Jayhawk @$$ Way"

Change Missouri Street (only by the stadium, of course) to "K-State Sucks! Street"

Change West Campus Road to "Pop This Cornhuskers Street"

Change Ohio Street to "Texas Longhorns Are Full of SXXt"

Change Iowa Street to "Iowa State Cyclones Blow Street"

BTW, has anyone ever noticed that 23rd Street becomes Clinton Parkway west of Iowa (or Iowa State Cyclones Blow Street)? Wow, that must be why the pizza delivery guys can't find anything over....it's just too difficult to follow a straight line.

Dogtown_Jayhawk 9 years, 4 months ago

More street history: The local precedent for changing street names started in 1911 when E-W streets went from Lawrence founders' names (whom few could list now) to numbered ones. At the time, it seemed disrespectful. In the long run, it made navigation easier, especially as the town grew.

So why do this change now? Well, the Fambrough naming wouldn't really create an enormous upset nor streamlining on the city map now. And would the historic rivalry endure without egging it on? Of course. So neither of those are great reasons for or against. But as an STL resident/KU alum in favor of the Fambrough idea, I know that the KU-MU competition is what keeps helps to keep some of the local history fresh (along with Free State name and beers!) and even occasionally inspires people to learn about its factual roots. And since the border war history and sports each loom so large in Lawrence's identity, this is a quirky geographic notation that recognizes them both.

lawrencelady 9 years, 4 months ago

Oh well, so much for having a little fun with our town. Quirky notation, that's so neat. I also like it when towns name their streets after trees in the order that their foliage starts to.... zzzzzz... oh geez, not again.

compmd 9 years, 4 months ago

lawrencelady said: "I never said KU history equals Lawrence history, but the street in question has to do with the football stadium. And Mississippi isn't even a rival of ours. They're not even the same conference. Is that really an appropriate comparison?"

You're not differentiating between the city and the university, and you illustrate it beautifully right in that statement. Again, with Mississippi, street before stadium; the juxtaposition of the street and stadium has no bearing on the relevance of the street name.

There are large cities not set up in a simple numerical, easy to understand fashion. Chicago was mentioned earlier, look at the enormous number of streets there that are not intuitive at all.

Jersey_Girl 9 years, 4 months ago

lawrencelady - explaining my responses to your comments to you is getting tedious. No, Mississippi is not a rival of KU. However, Mississippi Street borders the stadium (I believe you asked if I could name the street).

bug167 - you are aware that Clinton Parkway is named for Clinton Lake to which it leads and not Bill or Hilary?

JayCat_67 9 years, 4 months ago

Maybe each block of Missouri street could be named for a different KU coach. Phog could have his block down around the 19th street area. And who could forget Valesente Way? Washington? State or Marion? Why stop at coaches? Patinkin Place perhaps? All I know is Mangino Blvd. will need to be a four lane...

lawrencelady 9 years, 4 months ago

I didn't ask if you could name the street that bordersthe stadium. Your responses don't need explaining, I know what you mean by them. It's just that you're not reading my comments so you think that I'm not staying on topic.
You still never told me who the founding families were ,why the streets were named after the states in the order they joined the union, or how you propose to cover the entire city in a thick layer of polyeurothane thus preserving it for all time.

Jersey_Girl 9 years, 4 months ago

Posted by lawrencelady (anonymous) on January 6, 2007 at 7:06 p.m. (Suggest removal)

What's more Lawrence tradition than KU athletics? And who's our biggest rival? And what's the name of the street next to our stadium?

Yeah, actually you did ask if I could name the street that borders the stadium. Lawrence was founded in 1854 for the New England Emigrant Aid Company, by Charles Robinson, who later served as governor of Kansas, and named after Amos Adams Lawrence, a prominent politician and abolitionist and the son of famed philanthropist Amos Lawrence. I don't know why the streets were named in the order they entered the union although someone early suggested it is because that was how streets were often named. I'm sure that sounds like a fabulous reason to start renaming them, however I've never been in another town that has that claim and yes, I've traveled outside Lawrence and Kansas, so I find it quaint. And I don't feel the need to cover the entire city in thick layer of polyurethane in order to preserve it for all time. Having grown up in Old West Lawrence and lived in that historic district, I don't see the problem with keeping that part of Lawrence the same. It's bad enough that downtown caters to KU students and every other shop vomits KU crap.

bearded_gnome 9 years, 4 months ago

then, I'd be living near " XIIV." ZOWIE!

coach "maningo" needs an extra-large roundabout on his street.

lawrencelady 9 years, 4 months ago

I didn't ask what street borders the stadium, I asked which one was next to it. It was an obvious reference to the street we're talking about. Remeber? Missouri Street? Yeah, it's too bad KU doesn't do more to show it's a part of Lawrence. Using a mythical bird as a mascot instead of some sort of icon from our city's Civil War roots... hmm... like maybe a Union soldier, or a rifle or something. What's a Jayhawk have to do with anything? Hmm.... So, you admit that they named the streets the way they did because they had nothing better to name them. Now that we do, maybe we should?

melott 9 years, 4 months ago

I can't believe people actually spend time thinking about things l ike this. No, wait a minute, yes, I can believe it.

local_support 9 years, 4 months ago

Honorary street names would be pretty cool and would not disturb those who live there.

Just like in the big city!

lawrencelady 9 years, 4 months ago

melott wrote - I can't believe people actually spend time thinking about things l ike this. No, wait a minute, yes, I can believe it.

And I can't believe you just had to express your astonishment after reading all that thread. Or did you not think about it even a little? In which case... I can't believe you actually read all that and didn't have a single thought of your own.

bearded_gnome 9 years, 4 months ago

and, I can't believe Lawrencelady doesn't know that the bloody kansas equivalent of the Missouri Ruffians were called "the jayhawkers!" there ya' go. historical tie to mascot.

lawrencelady 9 years, 4 months ago

And I can't believe you didn't notice the sarcasm I was using. Notice the gratuitous use of the word "hmm..."? Makes you think doesn't it?

lawrencelady 9 years, 4 months ago

Now that we've noticed KU's tie to Lawrence's history, maybe we can all agree that our traditions as Lawrencenians have a lot to do with what goes on at our city's university. Specifically in the athletics. Every time we go to a bowl game the school earns itself just as much money as our city raises for itself in tax revenues. Obviously Jayhawk athletics (in this topic football) is important to us... otherwise we'd just be Topeka without a capitol building.

Jersey_Girl 9 years, 4 months ago

Border - to be next to. Yes, I remember what street what we're talking about. I just think this is a stupid idea.

local_support - they're not talking honorary, they're talking permanent change.

Jersey_Girl 9 years, 4 months ago

The KU football team has been to exactly 10 bowls, including the Mazda Tangerine Bowl, whatever the hell that is, and won 4. The one bowl Fambrough played in and two he coach, we lost. So why exactly does he deserve a street renamed for him? At least we won the two bowl games Glen Mason took the team to.

bug167 9 years, 4 months ago

Jersey_Girl said: bug167 - you are aware that Clinton Parkway is named for Clinton Lake to which it leads and not Bill or Hilary?

Response: Well, yes, as a matter of fact I AM aware that it was named for the lake. I am aware of this because I'm old (shut up, Brian) but not completely senile and I actually lived in Lawrence when it was renamed. Were YOU aware that 23rd is also known as K-10? Were you aware that the Kansas Turnpike is known as I-70 in some places and I-35 in others (roadway conspiracy....you tell me)? Were you also aware that Trivial Pursuit does not have a Kansas Roads, Streets and Boulevards Edition, but Monopoly has a Kansas University version (toy manufacturing conspiracy....I'm just saying)?

Oh, and I totally agree with you that downtown merchants should remove every piece of KU merchandise in their businesses. There is absolutely NO REASON for them to cater to the 29K+ students, their families and friends or any of the residents that ARE KU fans. These merchants shouldn't be out to just make a buck!!! Or, wait, maybe I AM senile.....what's the point of being in business?

Were you aware that there are lots and lots of people with nothing better to do on a Saturday night than yank other people's chains (and seriously enjoy every single yank)?

Oh, one final question: Are you a closet Mizzou fan? Is that the REAL issue here? Hmmmm (lawrencelady - you're right, this works really well!)?

I'm totally voting for "plumberscrack lane." And yes, I am bored and have nothing better to do tonight.

lawrencelady 9 years, 4 months ago

The only reason the street names are "tradition" is because no one thought to change them. Outside that we have no reasons as to why they were named that way to begin with. That's not tradition that's just fear of change. A street near the stadium renamed to a commemerate a great coach or player, something with some meaning, now that is a tradition.

lawrencelady 9 years, 4 months ago

Whoa, Samuel Clemmons was Mark Twain?! Thanks for clearing that up, you must really love American literature.... or those bar & grill trivia games, either way, impressive display.

lawrencelady 9 years, 4 months ago

shadower said: The streets were named for a reason

Yeah, that's the main point here. Let's hear it.

To sum everything else up, the name we change it to doesn't matter. We've yet to get over the name change hump, so stop insulting Farmbrough, who was a great coach especially in school spirit. If the city had been built around the school then the name Missouri St. wouldn't have been an option. As it is the stadium was built and an inappropriate street name grandfathered in. It's way passed time we did something about it.

lawrencelady 9 years, 4 months ago

cool said: lawrence lady / see above posts about your lack of knowledge about 'the nation of douglas' or 'free state'.

You just listed two great reasons to change the name of the street. I don't know what lack of knowledge you're talking about, but if you think you're blowing our minds with elementary school Clemmons revelations you've got some looking in the mirror to do.

lawrencelady 9 years, 4 months ago

And let's talk about what a great service the Jayhawk does to our free state, "Nation of Douglas" (wow, that's really capitol building of you) heritage. Using our university as a source of our traditions as Lawrencenians is a great idea. Because without KU our city would lose half of its businesses, way over half of its business patrons, way over half of its tax revenues from sales, car registrations, and tolls, and all of its vitality. Maybe you guys should stop insulting that with all this sudden pride in a street that has no clear reason for being named after our biggest rival, both collegiate and historical.

lawrencelady 9 years, 4 months ago

I think his hatred of Mizzou in consideration of his KU spirit is the reason he was suggested. But I think everyone would be just as happy with Sayers St. OR Mangino St. We could name it after the current football coach. Sounds like a tradition. That we just started. Yay, Lawrence!

lawrencelady 9 years, 4 months ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

Jackalope 9 years, 4 months ago

A pervious poster wrote: ". . .but I'll bet the citizens of current day Leavenworth would have preferred that their ancestors had chose a university rather than a federal prison back when the choice was on the table."

Maybe so, but at least they have most their lunies in a lockup.

Linda Aikins 9 years, 4 months ago

wow wow wow wow wow

This has to be one of the most incredulous posts ever.

Jackalope 9 years, 4 months ago

Boy, that is inexplicable, isn't it.

Just ruins a quip.

Mkh 9 years, 4 months ago

WOW! Can this thread be anymore ridiculous? This is an absurd notion by the althetic freaks in this town who think that everything important that ever happened here had something to do with a ball game. Changing the name of Missouri st. to a mediocre coach is one of the dumbest ideas I've ever heard. Perhaps no other state shares the same kind of history with our town/state as Missouri. Whether you like the state or not really doesn't matter, it's about history-- not losing a few meaningless bowl games a lifetime ago.

I would like to think that the people who died in Quantrill's raids would not like us to forget Missouri.

And there is a reason why the streets were named the way they were, its in order of how our Nation was formed. Let me repeat it, how our Nation was formed.

Fambrough had nothing to do with the forming of the US.

KU sports is Not very important!!! Sure it's entertaining sometimes, but for crying out loud Get a Life!

budwhysir 9 years, 4 months ago

I believe all our streets should be numbers and sinle letters of the alphabet. You know. street 1,2,3,4 and streets aa,ac,af,ba and so on.

This would eliminate anyone from complaining in the years to come. Unless we find someone who finds our numbering and letter system to be a slap in the face

Jersey_Girl 9 years, 4 months ago

Sheesh, bug167, no need to get so hostile. Maybe you need to get to bed a little earlier. Yes, I know 23rd is also known as K-10? Were you aware that the Kansas Turnpike is known as I-70 in some places and I-35 in others. As for your rant about downtown merchants getting rid of all KU paraphernalia, that wasn't my suggestion. I just remember a time when downtown catered to Lawrence people, not primarily KU students and fans and I miss that. No, I'm not a Missouri fan, I'm a Lawrence fan. I'll probably get flayed for saying this, but I'm sentimental. The downtown merchants don't want any big department stores coming into Lawrence as it might take away from their business but as long as they're selling mostly KU stuff, I don't see the threat. I doubt Macy's would set up an entire department devoted to KU. I resent having to go to Topeka or KC if I want clothes without KU or a Jayhawk on them.

bug167 9 years, 4 months ago

Jersey_Girl: see reference to chain yanking above.

Tychoman 9 years, 4 months ago

Coach Fambrough obviously isn't the most stellar coach in KU's football history, but he's important to a lot of people. Name a new street after him, naming Missouri Street something else just because of the "Missouri" association is possibly one of the most immature, infantile things athletic fans can do. This whole plan is idiotic.

lawrencelady 9 years, 4 months ago

Fear of change is immature. As a resident of a city that is dependant on a school that is dependant on its athletic department I don't see anything infantile about getting into the spirit. Anyone found out how Missouri St. got its name? Because there's an awesome story about how Mangino St. got its name... Wanting to start a real tradition that we can call our own is not idiotic, but insulting someone with an opposing point of view is. Obviously there're some residents that aren't ready to have an adult conversation. Anyone watch "Fairly Odd Parents" today? They made a reference to Samuel Clemmons and Missouri. Looks like you're right, cool, they don't have to teach it in school anymore. It's such common knowledge that Nickelodeon viewers get it.

Jersey_Girl 9 years, 4 months ago

jayhawkess a.k.a. lawrencelady - it is not fear of change that is the reason behind people not wanting the name change. It is logic (the confusion of 15th Street turning into Bob Billings) and sentimentality. I believe what Tychoman was saying was immature is the desire to change the street's name because of a rivalry with another school. I've said time and time again, if they want to change a street name, change one on campus. Otherwise, name a new street after him.

lawrencelady 9 years, 4 months ago

Missouri is a logical name that holds sentiment? What's logical about the ordering of states by their admisson to the union? Like people see Missouri and go "Oh yeah, Missouri came before Arkansas I know right where I am." The only sentiment you guys have is you've never seen anything different and the thought of it changing makes you miss the days when 15th St. wasn't Bob Billings. The good ol' days right? Like that change has sent our city into total upheaval. I think Mangino St. is more logical and would hold way more than just "it's been that way my whole life" sentiment. Like I said before, Lawrence needs KU and KU needs its football enthusiasm. Kind of a no brainer. Even if it was just from 9th St. on, it would pretty great for school pride and thusly the community.

Jersey_Girl 9 years, 4 months ago

Nooooooooo, not renaming a section of a street so the it has continuity is logical. Renaming a street b/c the university has a rivalry and fans "hate" the rival state is illogical and inconvenient. And no, changing 15th into Bob Billings hasn't sent the city into total upheaval. It's just annoying.

lawrencelady 9 years, 4 months ago

Calling Potter's water hole a lake is confusing. Pronouncing Campanile correctly is annying. Chanting "Rock Chalk Jayhawk" at an obviously beaten opponent is immature. Take a right off of 9th and being on (insert coach's name here) St. would be right on par. It's the eccentric, unique touches that make tradition.

bearded_gnome 9 years, 4 months ago

no, no, and again I say NO!

please don't prostitute Lawrence's history for the KU rivalry. if necessary, name a new street, the whole d----d street, not a portion.

yes, I said "prostitute." MO street has been there for a reason, and this idea and its proponents, claiming "no brainer" status are being quite arogant.

furthermore, if we do this, then where does it stop? does the current mayor get his/her name on a portion of north second street? does the fire chief get to put his/her name on three blocks of Haskell? oh, what about the discrimination in all this naming after leaders...we could start naming blocks of streets after current inmates of the county jail? Naismith south of 23rt could become burger king way? c'mon, stop the foolishness!

lawrencelady 9 years, 4 months ago

Drama queen much? For the millionth time, what reason is "Mo street" there? I'm sorry if I'm coming off as arrogant, I think I've been taking strides to keep my thoughts open-ended. You're the one that keeps firing back with the same lame-ass reasons.
No one said anything about going name change crazy. This is an obvious extenuating circumstance and for all the genuine, cool reasons I've stated above it's a good idea. For the one reason you've stated, which has yet to be actually stated, you think it's not a cool idea. I'm ready to get on board with you, just tell me what the reason is. It's seems to be very interesting, I wonder why you won't share it.

lawrencelady 9 years, 4 months ago

We could also turn Naismith south of 15th back to Michigan since you're so into tradition. Didn't seem like a huge deal to the developers of Allen Field House to change the founding families' street name to fit in with school spirit. Was your gran'pappy an opponent of that legislation? "You can't call Michigan Naismith! What's next, are we going to name Vermont after the paper boy? Yeah, that's a relevant point. What? It's the same thing!" Get some of that sand out of your vag, you're missing an opportunity to have a little bit of fun. Just a little bit. A teeny weeny bit of fun? Hmm? Sort of fun? For just a bit? C'mon, big fella... bearded gnome, more like bearded debby downer. "no, no, again I say NO!" Nice temper tantrum. What are you, two years old?

lawrencelady 9 years, 4 months ago

That's good because the order of the states' admission to statehood has a lot to do with our city. It's neat to tell people about it and when they say "Why were they named like that?" you get to say "Uh... tradition?"

lawrencelady 9 years, 4 months ago

athleticness? Um, as I've said three times now, Lawrence needs KU and KU needs its "athleticness". KU is our heritage, our street names are not our heritage. If they were we'd actually be able to cite a specific reason for why they're named after the states in order of their sovereignty.
JAYHAWKESS!? HAHAHAHAhahaha oooohhhh,hhahahhahhhaaah hee hee hee, gosh, oh, cool, stop it, you're so witty... again... oh the cleverness.... whew, let me catch my breath. cool, warn a woman before you're going to split her sides. mmmmm... okay, I'm okay.

lawrencelady 9 years, 4 months ago

I agree, too bad we're the ones with the chance to and not them. This is way better than a "Muck Fizzou" shirt.

Jersey_Girl 9 years, 4 months ago

ri*val Pronunciation: 'rI-v&l Function: noun Etymology: Middle French or Latin; Middle French, from Latin rivalis one using the same stream as another, rival in love, from rivalis of a stream, from rivus stream -- more at RUN 1 a : one of two or more striving to reach or obtain something that only one can possess b : one striving for competitive advantage 2 obsolete : COMPANION, ASSOCIATE 3 : one that equals another in desired qualities : PEER

Rivalry is about healthy competition, not hatred.

lawrencelady 9 years, 4 months ago

Then forget I used the word hatred that one time. I knew I should have theasaurused that one.
"I think his hatred of Mizzou in consideration of his KU spirit is the reason he was suggested. But I think everyone would be just as happy with Sayers St. OR Mangino St. We could name it after the current football coach. Sounds like a tradition. That we just started. Yay, Lawrence!" Substitute "hatred" with "passion to defeat in collegiate athletics". I fully retract the use of the word "hatred" but fully stand behind the three, more important points that followed.

Jersey_Girl 9 years, 4 months ago

"Don Fambrough loathes Missouri." First sentance in the article.

lawrencelady 9 years, 4 months ago

Right. Well, everyone in this town loathes Mizzou, but I agree that's a pretty strong sentiment to put on public display. I stand by my idea to name it after the current football coach.

Jersey_Girl 9 years, 4 months ago

And what, change it every time we get a new coach?

lawrencelady 9 years, 4 months ago

Exactly. Tradition for inagurating new coaches. Drive them down the street that used to be named after the one team we as a city of football fans expect them to beat. Sounds kind of neat. We could start doing a parade or a festival and have all the proceeds go towards a free recycling pickup program or something equally beneficial to our city. Lots of beer bottles and cans get thrown away during and after football games.

Tychoman 9 years, 4 months ago

Changing the name of the street would make KU and Lawrence an even bigger laughingstock of the Big XII.

lawrencelady 9 years, 4 months ago

How are we a laughing stock of the Big XII?

Tychoman 9 years, 4 months ago

Ever watch the Jayhawks play football? OH SNAP!

lawrencelady 9 years, 4 months ago

We've had our glory years. It'll come back around again, and then even the fair weather fans can come hang out on Muck Fizzou St.

Tychoman 9 years, 4 months ago

I'm sure they will, lawrencelady, but changing Missouri Street to something else won't make a difference, and neither will the monstrous new athletic facilities they're building next to Memorial Stadium.

And why is it one "Missouri St. should get the boot..." link takes me to a different KU sports webpage and another one takes me to this one? LJW needs to double check their hyperlinks.

lawrencelady 9 years, 4 months ago

I'm not placing their future successes into the hands of a street change. What's one thing have to do with the other? The monstrous athletic facility they're building is funded by money they've earned going to the Tangerine Bowl. With it they'll be able to train better and get to more bowl games and earn more money for their program. Not that it matters, no one in this town seems very into what they do.

Tychoman 9 years, 4 months ago

I'd be more in to what they did, if they did it well. Kidding, I loathe football as a sport so I don't care one way or the other.

JayCat_67 9 years, 4 months ago

"Timmy is an average kid, that no one understands, Mom and Dad and Vicky always giving him commands..."

lawrencelady 9 years, 4 months ago

But doom and gloom up in his room is broken instantly, by two magic little fish who grant his every wish, 'cause in reality...

Tychoman 9 years, 4 months ago

They are the OOOOODDDD parents, fairly oddparents Wands and wings Floaty crowny things! Odd parents, fairly oddparents...

lawrencelady 9 years, 4 months ago

For the life of me I can't get the bridge lyrics down... obtuse, giant goose, milk shake, rubber snake... I think I forgot one or two.

Tychoman 9 years, 4 months ago

obtuse, rubber goose, green moose, guava juice...giant snake, birthday cake, chocolate shake!

Steve Jacob 9 years, 4 months ago

I did not even read anything above, but this will be the 183 post? Come on, get a life :)

Jackalope 9 years, 4 months ago

Just name a cloakroom after him in the Taj Mahal alumni center and be done with it.

BOE 9 years, 4 months ago

Changing Missouri street to spite a footbal rival? Wow! An action that will no doubt generate the same kind respect and accolades our famed Kansas Board of Education received. Doesn't anyone see how this would be viewed as incredibly childish and petty?

Rather than the in-your-face "coup" that some think it would be, in reality it would very much be a sad, pathetic admission to Missouri (and everyone else) that, "We're such inept and impotent losers, this is all that's left for us.";

A university so lacking in imagination that it has nothing to show the "Show-Me State", but its' a**.

Nothing like turning a classless act into a tradition to be venerated, I mean who wouldn't love telling the Grandkids about the great tradition behind such a "classy" act?

" Well Johnny, the street used to be named "Missouri", but some really cool people got together and changed it to this coach who hated Missouri more than anyone else in the whooooole wiiiide world. "

" Wooooww, Grandpa, that's just soooooo totally awesome! I'll bet that showed'em!"

-

Yep, let's just shout it out to the entire country what a classless act that KU is.

lawrencelady 9 years, 4 months ago

Is it the name change that bugs you or the name it's suggested it gets changed to? Because I've already expressed my concern with the name Fambrough as well. So it would go more like "Well, Johnny, the street used to be named 'Missouri' but some really cool people got together (I'd just say 'Lawrence decided', but I think you're trying to emphasize your point, real mature) and changed it to the name of whatever coach is currently leading our football team against our biggest rival of the same name." "Wow, Grandpa, what a classy slight, I'll bet that showed them." "Well, Johnny, it would have except Mizzou already had one up on us. They never had a Kansas St. by there football stadium to begin with."

-

Yeah, let's shout it out to the entire country what a sweet rivalry KU and Mizzou has.

lawrencelady 9 years, 4 months ago

cool said "we cannot rename Missouri Street in this fashion because most of the homeowners along that street moved here from Missouri thinking that would be the 'mostest fun' return address for their relatives back in MO."

I never said "mostest fun". Why did you put that in quotation marks? Did most of the homeowners along Mizzou St. really move here from Missouri or are you just making things up? Thanks for contributing to the conversation. And by "contribute" I mean "not everyone speaks dumbass, please stop typing".

lawrencelady 9 years, 4 months ago

Oh no, she called me Jayhawkess again! Aaahahahahaaaaahhh, oh my, she's so clever, I can't take it.......... watch out for that cool, she's one "cool" customer. HAHA! Look, cool, I did it!

lawrencelady 9 years, 4 months ago

"Doesn't anyone see how this would be viewed as incredibly childish and petty?" Muck Fizzou, You Can't Spell Sucks without KSU, Nebraska Fans Bag My Groceries, etc... Rivalries are supposed to be childish and petty, that's kind of the entire point.

BOE 9 years, 4 months ago

" by lawrencelady January 8, 2007 at 5:15 p.m.

Is it the name change that bugs you or the name it's suggested it gets changed to?"

==

I'm not opposed to honoring Fambrough, I just don't see this as an honor. Changing the name of the street gives them another "one up on us", IMO.

A gift to Mizzou, from a prestigious university, to memorialize its lack of class and imagination, possibly with a trophy of a Jayhawk on all "fours", with the feathers picked clean from its back.

===

" Yeah, let's shout it out to the entire country what a KU and Mizzou has. "

Yup. And the best thing to do with a "sweet rivalry" with the "Show-Me State", is show'em on the field. That's what makes the rivalry truly sweet.

lawrencelady 9 years, 4 months ago

And you think a stadium full of Muck Fizzou shirts says.... what?

BOE 9 years, 4 months ago

Well then, by all means , rename Missouri Street to Muck Fizzou Street!

;)

lawrencelady 9 years, 4 months ago

Okay, so good conversation, guys. You make some good points there...

lawrencelady 9 years, 4 months ago

Supporting the Jayhawks isn't a good reason? Is there another source of retail, tax and rental income that's driving this city? Yeah, yeah, Jayhawkess.. hilarious, anyone mind staying on point this time?

bearded_gnome 9 years, 4 months ago

sheeeesh!
somebody had way too much of something...

a long long time ago, lawrence?lady did actually reply, flippently, to my post.
she seems to have reading comprehension issues, attention deficit, obsessive compulsive traits, and too much darned time on her little hands.
to summarize, LL here are the reasons against this proposed change, mine and others', elaborated. <Those who named it MO did so in a systematic fashion, and returning 15th and 23rd to their complete proper names would help.
<those who named and maintained the street as Missouri were quite aware of the bloody Missouri history because for them, bloody kansas and the civil war were present; and yet, they named it Missouri. bloody kansas and the civil war are much more significant than some football rivalry.
<renaming part of a street only adds to direction-finding confusion for new comers visitors and cat-trackers. <it sets a bad precedant, i.e. who else do we name part of a street after? <wear "muck fizzu" on your t-shirt, not on our street.
<renaming a street based on a football rivalry is a childish, and ultimately meaningless, act. instead, do better on the football field! <it would look like what it is: a childish gesture indicating a sense of powerlessness.

okay, there's a rather complete list. if I've left anyone's reasons for opposition off, please add below.

Linda Endicott 9 years, 4 months ago

Who knows? I'm sure somewhere there's a history of Lawrence telling the whole story, but this issue isn't really important enough to go looking everything up again.

Why did your parents give you the name you have? Any particular reason? Or just a whim? They had to name them something, and I suppose state names are as good as anything else.

Here in Ottawa, most of the north-south streets got named after trees. Eventually they must have run out of ideas, because we have some pretty weird ones now, in the new streets. But I supposed having a "Sequoia" street in Kansas might seem a little silly.

And I suppose you must be fairly young to think that anything old, or revered, or traditional should be changed just because it IS old, revered, or traditional. Why do we have to change everything, just because some diaper dandy comes along and gets a bee in his bonnet about something that really isn't important at all?

But I also suppose you will have this view that anything older than yourself has outlived its usefulness for quite some time...until you get to be old yourself. Then somehow, you begin to appreciate the things that are traditional, the things that have stayed the same through the years.

This street was named many, many moons ago, and it had nothing to do with KU, or football rivalry, or sports in any way. It's not like they did it with the express purpose of offending some snotty little twit in the year 2006. Changing the name now would only result in confusion, and serves no real purpose. The fact that this street runs by the stadium is entirely beside the point. The stadium wasn't even there when the street was named, nor was there yet any rivalry.

Want to name a street after the coach? Name one of the new ones after him. Honor him on campus. Put a plaque somewhere. Name a spot on campus after him. Name a tree. A sidewalk. Name a damn urinal after him for all I care.

But there is no earthly reason to change a street name just because some people can't learn to stop being offended by everything. Maybe this twit offends me. Maybe his name offends me. Maybe I should start a petition to get his name changed, because it offends me.

Maybe all those towns in Missouri who have a Kansas street should change them. And I'm sure there are many of them.

Get over it already. If you don't like the name of the street and don't like to see the signs, then look away. Grow up.

lawrencelady 9 years, 4 months ago

I never implied that I want the name changed because it was old. If your arguments consist of sticking words in my mouth then they're automatically false. The only reason I ask my question is because your only argument against this name change is "The streets are named that way for a reason," and then no one says the reason. I do like the street names, but I think the idea of renaming Missouri St. in the name of our football rivalry would be fun for both students and residents.
So, again, "Before you write anything else, answer this one and only question... Why the street names? I don't mean tell me about their reason for being in their order, I mean Why were they named that way instead of anything else?"

Linda Endicott 9 years, 4 months ago

What does it matter what the original "reason" was for naming it Missouri Street??

Changing it now will result in confusion, not only for new residents, but also for fire and police officers going on calls, which could result in somebody not getting the help they need in a timely manner.

Is that a good enough reason not to change it?

Again I ask you, what was the "reason" your parents named you what they did? Is it okay to change your name, just because you don't know the reason, or it wasn't a good enough reason, in your estimation?

I'm sure someone can find the information you so ardently crave. But I doubt that knowing the "reason" the streets were named after states will change your view in the least.

So what difference does it make?

lawrencelady 9 years, 4 months ago

Okay, I'm not saying change the name just because we don't know the reason. I'm saying don't use that excuse for not changing it. We should change it in the name of school spirit. I know why my parents named me what they did and if I wanted to change it to Jayhawkess I would go to the court and ask a judge to make it legally so. I don't know what that has to do with two blocks of Mizzou St. being changed to Mangino St. Do you really think the fire department and police department wouldn't get a heads up along with the rest of us about such a major change? Do you really think that would throw a huge wrench into the intricate machine that is Lawrence?
"I'm sure someone can find the information you so ardently crave. But I doubt that knowing the "reason" the streets were named after states will change your view in the least." It wouldn't change my mind, but when someone says "They were named that way for a reason" at least we'd know what they meant. But I've said that before like at least ten times now. Stop replying to me if you're not even bothering to read my initial posts.

"Before you write anything else, answer this one and only question... Why the street names? I don't mean tell me about their reason for being in their order, I mean Why were they named that way instead of anything else?"

bearded_gnome 9 years, 4 months ago

once again, lawrencelady displays reading comprehension issues. from above: "Posted by kcwarpony ( anonymous) on January 7, 2007 at 3:48 a.m. ( Suggest removal)

"Albert D. Searl, a 23-year-old civil engineer from Massachusetts, spent the fall surveying Lawrence and platting the streets. Searl's plan, probably suggested by the Aid Company, imposed a two-dimensional grid over the three-dimensional landscape. His main streets lay in straight lines crossed at right angles by secondary streets to make rectangular blocks, a plat that reflected city planning trends of the day. Although raised in Massachusetts where most streets and highways followed the lay of the land, winding around hills and curving with the river, Searl's new town echoed William Penn's gridiron plan for Philadelphia."

"The Aid Company may have instructed Searl to look to Philadelphia for the grid, but they rejected Penn's ideas about street naming. The common European model of naming streets for the King or a prominent personage offended Penn's Quaker sense of equality. He honored, instead, the native trees of the Schulkyll River valley, naming the streets Mulberry, Elm and Pine and numbering the cross streets. The Aid Company followed the ideas of L'Enfant who, in designing the nation's capital, named major streets after the states. Searl's map named the north-south streets for the thirteen original colonies, beginning with the proposed main street of Massachusetts and stretching east. Streets continued west as states in the order they were added to the Union. Cross streets in Lawrence honored Revolutionary War heroes---Pinckney, Henry, Lee and Winthrop."

http://www.kshs.org/sesquicentennial/ser...

"

states continued west in the order that they were added to the union. "lady's" question was already answered.

lawrencelady 9 years, 4 months ago

You're questioning my reading comprehension? You just rehashed the exact thing I said not to rehash. I know why they were named in that specific order. What I don't know is why they were named that way. Why not name them after varieties of fruit? If you say "They were named that way (states in order of their admission to the union) for a reason," then also give the reason. I've really never encountered such retardation. And then you try to insult me, which reflects your own stupidity, only you'll never see that because you couldn't comprehend this regurgitated sentence...

"Before you write anything else, answer this one and only question... Why the street names? I don't mean tell me about their reason for being in their order, I mean Why were they named that way instead of anything else?"

My question is far from answered, and your excuse for being sentimental for this street is far from explained.

classclown 9 years, 4 months ago

Perhaps Kansas City should change its name so that Missourrians don't have to be offended by the dreaded name "Kansas" being associated with their city.

Maybe they can change the name to some lame sports figure that loathes KU.

lawrencelady 9 years, 4 months ago

"Perhaps Kansas City should change its name so that Missourrians don't have to be offended by the dreaded name "Kansas" being associated with their city.

Maybe they can change the name to some lame sports figure that loathes KU."

Yeah, that's the same thing as a school rivalry. Missouri City, MO, that's exactly the same as changing two blocks of Missouri St. that touch the stadium. Good point.

classclown 9 years, 4 months ago

"What I don't know is why they were named that way."

======================================

Because that is the way the founders wanted it. They didn't want their streets named after fruit or lame mediocre college references. They wanted states.

classclown 9 years, 4 months ago

"Yeah, that's the same thing as a school rivalry. Missouri City, MO, that's exactly the same as changing two blocks of Missouri St. that touch the stadium. Good point."

=====================================

Of course it's the same. One is just as dumb as the other. Since they both would be done in the name of school rivavlry.

lawrencelady 9 years, 4 months ago

What does Kansas City, MO have to do with Columbia, MO? Wait, do you this Mizzou is in Kansas City?

lawrencelady 9 years, 4 months ago

"Because that is the way the founders wanted it. They didn't want their streets named after fruit or lame mediocre college references. They wanted states."

But they didn't know about our impending rivalry with Mizzou, how do you know they wouldn't have been for naming Missouri St. something different where it touches the stadium?

oldgoof 9 years, 4 months ago

Maybe someone should ask residents of this street. How would you react if your street was renamed to some honorific title that would be a two-block incongruity and probably screw up your pizza and package deliveries?

classclown 9 years, 4 months ago

They do have a campus there. Since it is all part of the same system I'm sure there are some that are just "mortified" that one of their campuses is in a city with the name of their rival in it.

Besides, what do you care if they change it or not? It's all in good clean school rivalry fun.

lawrencelady 9 years, 4 months ago

They did ask someone on that street, it's what started the article.

lawrencelady 9 years, 4 months ago

"They do have a campus there. Since it is all part of the same system I'm sure there are some that are just "mortified" that one of their campuses is in a city with the name of their rival in it." That's the same thing as having a street with their name touch our stadium? If they had a Kansas St. touching their stadium would you be shocked and appauled if they renamed it?

I don't care either way. My initial post was the same as my last one, I just keep getting roundabout replies.

"Before you write anything else, answer this one and only question... Why the street names? I don't mean tell me about their reason for being in their order, I mean Why were they named that way instead of anything else?"

classclown 9 years, 4 months ago

Posted by lawrencelady (anonymous) on January 9, 2007 at 11:47 a.m. (Suggest removal)

"Before you write anything else, answer this one and only question... Why the street names? I don't mean tell me about their reason for being in their order, I mean Why were they named that way instead of anything else?"

==================================

That question has already been answered. Constantly asking it after it has already been answered simply demonstrates that you are doing no more than using the wrong orifice to speak out of.

Missourri St. does not touch your stadium. Stop being so dramatic. However, KANSAS City does touch their campus, so perhaps they have more reason than you for wanting a name change.

Why are you getting so bent over Kansas City changing its name?

lawrencelady 9 years, 4 months ago

"Because the man who laid the map out wanted it that way."

Okay, that's what I thought the reason was too, but you wrote this before...

"The streets were named for a reason, no reason to change."

You seemed to be implying there was some important foundation for all this sentiment towards a street name, but now you're just making empty guesses. You don't want a name change because "The streets were named for a reason, no reason to change." but then you admit that they weren't named for a reason at all. So, which is it?

lawrencelady 9 years, 4 months ago

When did I get bent out of shape over KC changing its name? classclown, seriously stop putting words in my mouth.

And where was the reason for the states being named in their owrder according to admission to the union? Just recite it, because I don't see it anywhere. Constantly saying my question's been answered when it hasn't simply demonstrates that you are doing no more than using the wrong oriface to speak out of.

Kyle Carter 9 years, 4 months ago

as a resident of missouri street, i love the idea

oldgoof 9 years, 4 months ago

Oldgoof should have written: "Ask someone who is an actual residential property owner on these two blocks of Missouri St whether it is a good idea. .. I know several of these, and they think this idea is nuttier than a fruitcake. With all due respect, the interests of temporary reisdents (renters) like the student originally quoted, and student zigzagwander, are by definition transitory. ..

lawrencelady 9 years, 4 months ago

It would become a right of passage for only the elitest of tail-gaters. Die hard alums would want their kids to live on Mangino St. so they could hang with them on game day. Potential renters would pile up trying to live on Mangino St. Anyone lucky enough to own property there would have an unfair advantage that would raise their property value in an already inflated part of town... property value wise.

lawrencelady 9 years, 4 months ago

We can make up scenarios to spin our perspectives or we can stick to fact. I understand home owners in that area might not like the idea, but there are those that do. Wether or not they think it's nuttier than a fruitcake is irrelevant as they had you to give them the story and I'll bet they got a pretty biased version. No offense, but you seem pretty emotional about the issue.
I may seem emotional too, but it's not been about the issue, only the chidings I've recieved because I decided to put my opposing point of view into this conversation. When you guys are ready to stop the insults, I'm ready to talk straight.

classclown 9 years, 4 months ago

"Wether or not they think it's nuttier than a fruitcake is irrelevant as they had you to give them the story and I'll bet they got a pretty biased version."

=========================================

As residents of this town, I'm sure they are quite capable of recieving and reading the Journal World for themselves. Perhaps even online such as you yourself do. Therefore the idea that those residents only got a biased version of the article holds no water.

Give it up.

classclown 9 years, 4 months ago

"We can make up scenarios to spin our perspectives or we can stick to fact."

======================================

Quite frankly, I think the only fact we should consider is what the people who live in the affected area think about it. Personally I think it's a stupid idea while you stupidly think it's a neato idea. But since neither you or I live there it affects neither one of us so it really doesn't matter.

Put it to a vote of the property owners on that section of the street and if they vote unanimously to change it, then so be it. If not, it stays the same. It should be their decision. Not yours, mine, or anyone elses that does not live there.

oldgoof 9 years, 4 months ago

Thank you to classclown from the 1000 Missouri neighborhood area.

lawrencelady 9 years, 4 months ago

"As residents of this town, I'm sure they are quite capable of recieving and reading the Journal World for themselves. Perhaps even online such as you yourself do. Therefore the idea that those residents only got a biased version of the article holds no water"

There was no mention of those residents, only the one's that he knew, and from the specific details of the conversation quoted it seems that they've had a personal conversation about it, at least. So his opinion may have biased theirs or he may only be giving the quote beneficial to his argument, either way the idea that those residents got a biased version of the article totally holds water.

Give it up? We're slinging battle cries now? You finally contribute something according to what's actually been said and all of a sudden it's quittin' time? This point doesn't annhialate the overall issue of the street being renamed. If points like that mattered we wouldn't have Bob Billings St.

lawrencelady 9 years, 4 months ago

I see "stupid", "moron" and a mention of brain activity... obviously you're all below real discussion.

The @ssholes win, I'll stop trying.

lawrencelady 9 years, 4 months ago

"Put it to a vote of the property owners on that section of the street and if they vote unanimously to change it, then so be it. If not, it stays the same. It should be their decision. Not yours, mine, or anyone elses that does not live there."

Sorry, one last thing.... When did I say it shouldnt be put to a vote? Putting more words into my mouth? Seriously, I'm about 96% sure you're retarded.

Tychoman 9 years, 4 months ago

Consumer, your post reveals you to be one of the biggest d***s on this forum. How cold and narrowminded can you be? Wow. You must be a hoot in real life.

classclown 9 years, 4 months ago

Posted by lawrencelady (anonymous) on January 9, 2007 at 2:35 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"Put it to a vote of the property owners on that section of the street and if they vote unanimously to change it, then so be it. If not, it stays the same. It should be their decision. Not yours, mine, or anyone elses that does not live there."

Sorry, one last thing.... When did I say it shouldnt be put to a vote? Putting more words into my mouth? Seriously, I'm about 96% sure you're retarded.

=====================================

I never claimed you said any such thing. I'm simply saying that what you or I think about this issue doesn't really matter. The only opinions that matter are the ones of the folks that live there.

Have you gotten dizzy yet?

lawrencelady 9 years, 4 months ago

Is there some secret power these forums hold that I'm not aware of? When did legislature passing become an option? Is that button below the "Preview comment" button?

Why would I be dizzy?

bearded_gnome 9 years, 4 months ago

classclown, this proposal impacts more than just residents/property owners on the particular street. having a "muck fizzu" attitude is rude, repugnant, and because of their perminance doesn't belong in the collective process of lawrence citizens having their streets designated.

so, if a vote, then all residents or all property owners in lawrence.


obviously, the naming of the streets that ran from north to south for states as they entered the union was meant to represent their historical significance. this is obviously implied from the post shown twice above. furthermore, Mass st., the "main street" was named for the state where the fellow was from, along with many of the original settlers of Lawrence.

Tychoman 9 years, 4 months ago

Is there even any evidence of this going to the City Commission or whoever names the streets, or is this just a special interest story?

oldgoof 9 years, 4 months ago

Lawrencelady posts: "There was no mention of those residents, only the one's that he knew, and from the specific details of the conversation quoted it seems that they've had a personal conversation about it, at least. So his opinion may have biased theirs or he may only be giving the quote beneficial to his argument, either way the idea that those residents got a biased version of the article totally holds water. .. Oldgoof responds: I give myself and my neighbors the benefit of the doubt that they do understand the issue. You have a bias, I have a bias. Are they not equally valid?
.. Those I talked to (3) on Missouri St. too have a bias: "1)nutty idea, 2)students must have too much spare time on their hands, 3) how stupid"

Linda Endicott 9 years, 4 months ago

The University of Kansas, and the city it resides within, Lawrence, should show more class than the University of Missouri, shouldn't they?

Then they should keep the name of Missouri Street, whether it runs by the stadium or not, and get over it. A school rivalry is just that, nothing but a school rivalry, and it becomes much less important the older you get. The school itself that you attended is more important than whatever street names might be around it.

Geez, I can't believe the people here going on and on about a NAME. Like it's the end-all and be-all of existence, and they'll never have another sane day if Missouri Street remains Missouri Street.

Honestly, if this is the most important issue in your pitiful life, you need to get a life.

Tychoman 9 years, 4 months ago

Good point, crazyks: It's a SCHOOL rivalry, not a CITY rivalry.

kcwarpony 9 years, 4 months ago

"Before you write anything else, answer this one and only question... Why the street names? I don't mean tell me about their reason for being in their order, I mean Why were they named that way instead of anything else?"

The Massachusetts Emigrant Aid Company was founded in 1854 by Eli Thayer of Massachusetts to fight against the extension of slavery to Kansas Territory. In 1855, the company reorganized and changed its named to the New England Emigrant Aid Company. Below is a link to the the New England Emigrant Aid Company Parties of 1855. It list the names of the emigrants (founding families?) and from where they came from. Notice what states are listed as their residence before departing.

http://www.kancoll.org/khq/1943/43_3_barry.htm

IMO, I think maybe the settlers might have been a bit homesick or missing family members who chose not to emigrate. Naming streets may have been some way of honoring their past and where they had come from. As for the Missouri name, maybe because one of the travel routes was the Missouri river? Maybe thats why they didn't what to exclude it. Who knows? Maybe a better understanding of founding of Lawrence and their (emigrants) history might reveal the reasons.

Meanwhile, I will try to have a sense of honor and respect, even if I don't know all the reasons why.

Jersey_Girl 9 years, 4 months ago

lawrencelady - have you even driven that section of Missouri Street lately? I did today. It stops at 11th street and essentially the west edge of the stadium property. It is at the closed end of the stadium. I don't know if stadiums have fronts or backs, but it always seemed to me that the closed end or the bottom of the "U" was the backside end of the stadium. For those of you Missouri haters, isn't that enough school spirit for you that the stadium has its back turned to Missouri Street? That seems like a snub to me. Southerns seem to think so as well. Cities in southern or Union states still build their state buildings and courthouses facing south with its back turned to the North. Seems to me Missouri fans might recognize that snub more than the name of a coach who last coached at KU before most of them were born.

Jersey_Girl 9 years, 4 months ago

If a KU fan travels to Columbia for an away game, whether a current student, alumni or staffer or just all around fan, do you honestly believe the fan would recognize a street there named for a MU coach who hated KU? Not likely. So I really don't see how renaming Missouri Street any coach's name or even a player's name would upset or offend them in anyway.

classclown 9 years, 4 months ago

Which means it would be necessary to publicize it. I'm sure it would get a spot in the Weird News.

Jersey_Girl 9 years, 4 months ago

So what is the athletic department going to do? Print in all the football programs that in 2007, Missouri Street was renamed for a coach who left KU 25 years before because he loathed Missouri? Because a year later, no one, especially MU fans, are gonna give a rat's patooty.

Jersey_Girl 9 years, 4 months ago

I meant the street was renamed for the coach b/c he loathed Missouri, not that he left KU b/c he loathed MU.

budwhysir 9 years, 4 months ago

Lets put some more winning scores on the score board. In my opinion, I dont care what street we use to get there, lets just drive to a winning season

bearded_gnome 9 years, 4 months ago

261. looks as if Jayhawkess has overloaded her buffer. or, gone to pound her head against a wall?

let us all hope for the increase of the Oread nymphs in delighted undisturbed bliss.

bearded_gnome 9 years, 4 months ago

oh, yes, if there are oread nymphs about, then, does that mean coach Mangino is the Calydonian Boar? rather fitting!

lawrencelady 9 years, 4 months ago

"I'm all for it...let's rename Carolina to "Traitor Way" while we're at it to honor Dean Smith and Roy Williams."

"no, no, and again I say NO!

please don't prostitute Lawrence's history for the KU rivalry. if necessary, name a new street, the whole d----d street, not a portion.

yes, I said "prostitute." MO street has been there for a reason, and this idea and its proponents, claiming "no brainer" status are being quite arogant.

furthermore, if we do this, then where does it stop? does the current mayor get his/her name on a portion of north second street? does the fire chief get to put his/her name on three blocks of Haskell? oh, what about the discrimination in all this naming after leaders...we could start naming blocks of streets after current inmates of the county jail? Naismith south of 23rt could become burger king way? c'mon, stop the foolishness! "

I'm glad you posted thetime and dates too, it made it easier to find the posts right before them where you see the real instances of baiting.

"Calling Potter's water hole a lake is confusing. Pronouncing Campanile correctly is annying. Chanting "Rock Chalk Jayhawk" at an obviously beaten opponent is immature. Take a right off of 9th and being on (insert coach's name here) St. would be right on par. It's the eccentric, unique touches that make tradition."

oldgoof 9 years, 4 months ago

Lawrence lady: Check any of my posts for any name calling of you or your position. Check your posts for generalizations about me based on my position.
. btw, I ran into another owner-resident today, 900 block Missouri. This person's response was: "I wish they would honor Fam by picking up their beer cans" My collective informal poll is now 4-0. . I don't make 'em up, I just report 'em.

lawrencelady 9 years, 4 months ago

oldgoof- "Then please disregard the posts concerning people that were."

I'm kind of glad you guys aren't reading my posts in their entirety, it's mildly mind numbing, but now I can just copy and paste my initial responses to your comments.

Did you tell your friends "It would become a right of passage for only the elitest of tail-gaters. Die hard alums would want their kids to live on Mangino St. so they could hang with them on game day. Potential renters would pile up trying to live on Mangino St. Anyone lucky enough to own property there would have an unfair advantage that would raise their property value in an already inflated part of town... property value wise." ? If someone told me this was a stupid idea I'd say that to them.

lawrencelady 9 years, 4 months ago

"I think this thread and article were meant to nurture a sense of community and good natured banter, but all I see is a few sh*theads ganging up on one person."

bearded_gnome 9 years, 4 months ago

what, if, instead of being "sh*theads" its just that we intensely disagree with the proposal to rename part of a street which has been there for about 150 years, and have multiple reasons well expressed for our opposition? naw, couldn't be that.

lawrencelady 9 years, 4 months ago

what if, instead of having multiple reasons in opposition and expressing them without insults, every post I recieved in response was an attack and neither communal or good natured? Naw, that's not what happened. Y'all are real nice around here.

kcwarpony 9 years, 4 months ago

"every post I recieved in response was an attack and neither communal or good natured..."

Excuse me, lawrencelady, but could you please point out where I was insulting to you. I posted two links on early Lawrence history and then wrote my opinion on what may have been the reasons for the streets being named after states. I don't remember be insulting.

Linda Endicott 9 years, 4 months ago

And calling others sh*theads isn't insulting? You consider that communal and good natured?

lawrencelady 9 years, 4 months ago

"And calling others sh*theads isn't insulting? You consider that communal and good natured?"
Did I do that right off the bat?

"I don't remember be insulting." Then please disregard the posts concerning people that were.

Jersey_Girl 9 years, 4 months ago

Yeah, that one person who all us shheads were ganging up started out calling someone a drama queen in her second post and just went down hill from there. Especially since that person kept baiting all us shheads.

lawrencelady 9 years, 4 months ago

"What's the emotional tie to Missouri St? I see what you're sayng about tradition, but having Missouri St. right next to the stadium has nothing to do with our heritage. Renaming it to something meaningful would. Renaming Mass and renaming Mizzou is the same thing to you? Lighten up, drama queen."

in response to....

"...... and while we're at it rename downtown Massachusetts St. to KANSAS Street, Avenue or Boulevard."

Yeah, I'm the one doing the baiting.

bearded_gnome 9 years, 4 months ago

"Posted by lawrencelady ( anonymous) on January 6, 2007 at 6:46 p.m. ( Suggest removal)

I know why the states are named in the order of their admitance to the union, and it has more to do with the reason they named the steets first and up. There was no communal tradition or reason to name them anything else. Now there is. Grow up, only children are this afraid of change. If the unoriginal names of our state streets is the strongest tie to our roots you guys see then.... zzzz. oh, I'm sorry, I just fell asleep a little bit. No, no it's not that this unreasonable sentiment is boring me.... it's not you, it's me, I must be narcoleptic or something."

^childish... ^unreasonable

bearded_gnome 9 years, 4 months ago

"Posted by lawrencelady ( anonymous) on January 7, 2007 at 11:25 p.m. ( Suggest removal)

We could also turn Naismith south of 15th back to Michigan since you're so into tradition. Didn't seem like a huge deal to the developers of Allen Field House to change the founding families' street name to fit in with school spirit. Was your gran'pappy an opponent of that legislation? "You can't call Michigan Naismith! What's next, are we going to name Vermont after the paper boy? Yeah, that's a relevant point. What? It's the same thing!" Get some of that sand out of your vag, you're missing an opportunity to have a little bit of fun. Just a little bit. A teeny weeny bit of fun? Hmm? Sort of fun? For just a bit? C'mon, big fella... bearded gnome, more like bearded debby downer. "no, no, again I say NO!" Nice temper tantrum. What are you, two years old?"

Linda Endicott 9 years, 4 months ago

So you think the name of Missouri Street should be changed, because everyone against the change is "childish" and has an "unreasonable" "emotional tie" to the name it has now?

And what, pray tell, would changing the name to honor a former coach, based on his hatred of Missouri and the street's proximity to the stadium be?

Could it possibly be considered...gasp..."childish"? Could insisting that the street name be changed be based on the "unreasonable" "emotional tie" that some have to a silly football rivalry?

Football rivalries aren't "emotional ties"? Honoring a former coach isn't an "emotional tie"?

lawrencelady 9 years, 4 months ago

crazyks said: "So you think the name of Missouri Street should be changed, because everyone against the change is "childish" and has an "unreasonable" "emotional tie" to the name it has now?

And what, pray tell, would changing the name to honor a former coach, based on his hatred of Missouri and the street's proximity to the stadium be?

Could it possibly be considered...gasp..."childish"? Could insisting that the street name be changed be based on the "unreasonable" "emotional tie" that some have to a silly football rivalry?

Football rivalries aren't "emotional ties"? Honoring a former coach isn't an "emotional tie"?"

lawrencelady already said: "I'm kind of glad you guys aren't reading my posts in their entirety, it's mildly mind numbing, but now I can just copy and paste my initial responses to your comments."

The post your replying to was originally posted way before, but you didn't read that so you've got nothing to base the context on. Which is pretty much what everyone else is doing... cherry picking my comments and putting words into my mouth.

bearded_gnome 9 years, 4 months ago

nothing new has been added except some whining about behavior on this thread.

changing the name of part of an existing street is still just as poor an idea (see above). commemorating a silly rivalry is no basis for naming a street.
here's another good argument against it: changing the name would set a bad example for the current and future college students at KU. we don't want this kind of rude behavior set in stone, as it were. "muck Fizzu" isn't really appropriate for t-shirt, either.

lawrencelady 9 years, 4 months ago

I really didn't want to detour the convo, I'm sorry for defending myself. It was calling me Kathy as if it were an insult that really bugs me. I like Kathy and slinging her name around like a curse word is pretty mean.

Good point about the college students getting carried away though. Luckily we have a commission who makes decisions like that, and this sort of issue would probably get sent to a vote anyways. There are checks and balances for things we don't want to get carried away with, but they're also in place to recognize extinuating circumstances.
Why isn't a school rivalry basis for the changing of a street name? Mizzou/KU is one of the nation's oldest rivalries. We're the Duke/UConn of the Mid West. The USC/UCLA that's not on the West Coast. Dicky V announces our games during rivalry week because its one of the most intense, long standing and important rivalries in college athletics. That's not what I'd consider a "silly rivalry", I'd call that tradition.

melott 9 years, 4 months ago

I can't believe people think about things like this.

No, wait, I really can believe it.

lawrencelady 9 years, 4 months ago

Posted by melott (anonymous) on January 6, 2007 at 10:36 p.m. (Suggest removal) I can't believe people actually spend time thinking about things like this. No, wait a minute, yes, I can believe it.

Yeah, we get it

lawrencelady 9 years, 4 months ago

What's "the boot"?

You're welcome.

Rebecca.

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