Archive for Friday, February 2, 2007

Are more roundabouts on the way?

$700K available from state to enhance intersection safety

February 2, 2007


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Visitors to Allen Fieldhouse might be greeted by more than just the Phog Allen statue outside the front door.

A new roundabout at 19th Street and Naismith Drive - along the main route to the Fieldhouse - could be the newest addition, if city leaders choose to accept $700,000 from the Kansas Department of Transportation to build the safety-enhancement project.

"I'm biased, but I think roundabouts are one of the most effective tools we have to address crash issues," said Brian Gower, state traffic engineer with KDOT. "From a safety perspective, I love them."

Safety is the reason KDOT officials have said they would provide funding for the 19th and Naismith project. The intersection was one of three in the city that KDOT determined to have accident rates significantly higher than the statewide average.

Whether the city takes the state up on its offer, however, is far from certain.

"I don't know," Chuck Soules, the city's director of public works, said. "We've talked about it a little, but these roundabouts are huge community issues. They're talking about a single lane roundabout, but we have huge traffic during game days. I know the university would have some issues with that."

KDOT said in lieu of the Naismith project, however, the city could accept KDOT funding for one of the other two intersections that were found to have high accident rates. Those intersections and the improvements KDOT recommends:

Dangerous intersections

Public Works Director Chuck Soules talks about the most dangerous intersections in the city. Enlarge video

¢ A roundabout for the Sixth Street and McDonald Drive intersection. The new roundabout actually would be designed to reduce accidents at the adjacent intersection at Sixth and Iowa streets. With the new roundabout, the city would begin prohibiting westbound motorists on Sixth Street from turning directly onto Iowa Street.

Instead, westbound motorists would have to take the exit ramp off Sixth Street that leads to McDonald Drive, which runs underneath the elevated Sixth Street. Motorists then would use the new roundabout to make a three-quarter circle to head southbound - beneath Sixth Street - and merge onto Iowa Street.

The changes would be designed to eliminate accidents related to left turns at Sixth and Iowa. Engineers admit, though, that the plan is an outside-the-box solution.

"The Sixth and Iowa intersection is a tough intersection," Gower said. "You're basically talking about an intersection built on a bridge, which makes it tough to widen."

The state would provide $700,000 for the project.

¢ Left-turn lanes and realignment of the intersection at Ninth Street and Avalon Road. The state would provide $600,000 for the project, which would add the turn lanes to Ninth Street only. The project is designed to prevent rear-end accidents created by vehicles that stop in the main lane of traffic to turn left.

But to be effective, Gower said, Avalon Road would need to be realigned to create a traditional intersection. Soules said the realignment might make the project unfeasible because it would require the purchase of at least one home.

"That would make it real tough," Soules said.

Soules said the city also would need to develop more refined cost estimates for each of the three projects before deciding what to do. The state funding theoretically is designed to cover 90 percent of the construction costs of the project, but that figure does not include right-of-way costs and other expenses.

Soules said the city also will want to look to see if there are more feasible ways to address the safety issues at the intersections than what KDOT has proposed. Gower said the state is willing to listen to other ideas from the city.

Mayor Mike Amyx said he would like the city look for solutions other than roundabouts. He said he continues to receive a significant number of complaints about the devices.

"I don't think the community really wants very many more of them, to be honest," Amyx said. "I think we should just wait awhile before we add anymore."

City leaders have until March 30 to tell the state which, if any, of the projects they want to pursue. City commissioners will receive the letter from KDOT at their 6:35 p.m. meeting Tuesday, but are not expected to take any action then.


just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 11 years, 3 months ago

"Talk about mass confusion and backed up traffic"

The mass confusion and backed-up traffic is caused by all the traffic trying to get to or from the game, not by the roundabout. The congestion was much worse when there was a 4-way stop at that intersection.

sun45kiss 11 years, 3 months ago

I'm from the Bay Area, and when I went back to Oakland and visited my old neighborhood. I was shocked at how tacky the roundabouts made the neighborhood look. It totally changed the community. The streets look smaller and compact. Its just ugly.

KS 11 years, 3 months ago

budwhysir - My vote on your question to bozo would be a great big ""YES" More round abouts and less four way stops and traffic lights. Energy saved all the way around. 4 way stops today are about the dumbest thing going. People refuse to look at the driver manual and practice the rules as to who goes next, etc. People sit there in a coma, thinking (maybe), "well I wonder who is next?" Maybe it is just hard for some folks to talk on their cell phone and go thru a round about at the same time. Gotta go! Later today, maybe.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 11 years, 3 months ago

It depends on the intersection. If the traffic is fairly light, a roundabout isn't worth the expense. If it's too heavy, a stoplight is probably a better option. (actually, a roundabout at even very large and busy intersections would be fine if we didn't have so many incompetent drivers on the road.)

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 11 years, 3 months ago

"...and most of these intersections would be safer if the south lawrence trafficway was completed."

That's just idiotic.

"Take the piece of crap roundabout from the end of Clinton Parkway and move it . "

The reason it's there is because a new road was required to feed the development out there. Again, the problem isn't the roundabout-- it's the additional traffic, and the options of a four-way stop or a traffic light would cause more traffic hangups.

lunacydetector 11 years, 3 months ago

...and most of these intersections would be safer if the south lawrence trafficway was completed. from a four lane highway to a super two lane (because of the delays by the fringe in the community taking it to court, plus the enviro-terrorists destroying the construction equipment) and the after effects is all the traffic congestion within the city-not to mention all the injury accidents. if anyone is to blame for the dangerous intersections, go to the root of the problem. it is the freaks and their supporters who are now running the show....but we are going to get $700,000 from the state for more roundabouts...that will pay for at least ONE roundabout (or partially pay for one, like the one on 19th street).

build the SLT. it will save lives and stop unnecessary injury.

cowboy 11 years, 3 months ago

Bozo , lately I drive that stretch each morning and afternoon , there is no traffic out there , just an abortion ending to Clinton Parkway , a four lane down to two , heading into a roundabout from hell. I know this was negotiated with the developer , but it just lines up wrong , looks wrong , absolutely short sighted.

If it quacks , and has web feet it probably is a duck

Sigmund 11 years, 3 months ago

None of the above. Just because partial funding is available does not make it a good idea. Lets fix and maintain the streets first. Traffic on Iowa is likely to decrease substantially once Kasold is finished. Virtually all of Ninth Street is particularly in disrepair.

budwhysir 11 years, 3 months ago

In that case mr. bozo, should we replace all the 4 way stops and the stop lights for that matter with roundabouts????????

budwhysir 11 years, 3 months ago

What a great idea, have any of these people driven down 19th street by the existing rounabout on a game night?? Talk about mass confusion and backed up traffic

KS 11 years, 3 months ago

Give the round abouts a break. They are great. The reason poeple don't like them is because it forces the driver to make a decision while moving. Sort of like walking and chewing gum at the same time. I know it is really hard for some of you to do that. Seems like you just need a little help from someone to get thru life. Turn in your driver's license. You probably got it at Wal-Mart. The glass is half full folks.

Richard Heckler 11 years, 3 months ago

Sorry the money can be used for the stated purpose only. I cannot see how roundabouts which keep traffic moving can create more congestion and back up than traffic lights and stop signs which bring traffic to a screeching halt.

Pedestrian crossings could be established mid block in all directions.

9th and Avalon I say go for it ASAP.

cowboy 11 years, 3 months ago

Take the piece of crap roundabout from the end of Clinton Parkway and move it . These seem to work on small neighborhood applications but keep them off the main roads. Mui Stupido

bearded_gnome 11 years, 3 months ago

none of the above; I believe our city's greatest problem is the condition of the broken roads themselves. paleeeeeeze, not more roundabouts! they stand as monuments to misguided priorities and misspent funds.

KsTwister 11 years, 3 months ago

I have a letter with a price tage of $280,000 for a previous one. The Governor said she is reviewing KDOT's expenditures on these. So, my question is why will taxpayers have to pick up the remaining $420,000.00 bill? They might be obsolete for what is really needed--- by intelligent street designs.

hipper_than_hip 11 years, 3 months ago

We need a moritorium on roundabouts. A realignment of Ninth and Avalon gets my vote.

average 11 years, 3 months ago

Did you ever drive through 19th/Barker when it was a four-way-stop? On a game day or not. It's been a great solution in my opinion (someone who uses it daily).

Naismith, though, is a theoretically-four-lane road (most drivers swerve through both lanes between 19th and 21st). It already has a traffic light and turn lanes. I don't see going for the more moderate solution.

The bigger problem with a roundabout (and I am a fan, in many cases) is that traffic comes out of them pretty evenly. Drivers think "keep on going". Lots of pedestrians cross at 19th and Naismith. With a roundabout, they don't have a clear opportunity to cross, nor do they bunch up as a group waiting for a light. Instead, every pedestrian would play chicken on his own. This would also filter down to 19th/Ousdahl, 19th/Alabama, etc. I've stood at 19th/Alabama for 8-10 minutes before, waiting for a chance to cross 19th. An even flow of traffic from the west would not help.

But, I've never accused KDOT of considering pedestrian issues.

moveforward 11 years, 3 months ago

I am guessing the same people that hate the roundabouts... are the ones that cut corners while turning.

Use your stearing wheel! Put down the phone and the cup of coffee and focus on driving. You are operating a several thousand pound weapon and need to be thinking... and willing to do the work required while driving.

average 11 years, 3 months ago

sun45kiss -

Yes, they are intended to make the neighborhood more pedestrian-oriented, less car centered.

I assume you come from the Ayn Rand school of aesthetics, where the 20 lane NJ Turnpike or Houston freeway is more beautiful than Milan or Kyoto.

cowboy 11 years, 3 months ago

state your opinion as fact , typical. Roundabouts in Lawrence are an application intended to fix a problem. Only issue is that the real problem is a lack of street capacity to carry the volume .The result is folks trying to find a quick way across town and they end up shooting thru the neighborhoods. You can put all the roundabouts in that you desire but the bottomline is that there is still too much volume for the city streets , circa 1965 , to carry efficiently and safely.

Mike Myers 11 years, 3 months ago


Short sighted isn't right. Actually it's the exact opposite. If you had any idea of the amount of development we'll be seeing in the future you'll know exactly why there is a roundabout seemingly in the middle of nowhere. In the next ten years it is going to be a commercial and residential morass out there. Sad but true.

Most of my roundabout experience is with the one at 19th and Barker and I've got to say that it is awesome from the driver's perspective. I don't know if I'd want to be a pedestrian on game day at a 19th and Naismith roundabout though.

cowboy 11 years, 3 months ago

toto , if it is not shortsighted why is it a one lane roundabout , watch all the tire marks on it from boats, trucks , trailers. Dumb and Dumber designed this one.

sunflower_sue 11 years, 3 months ago

A roundabout under 6th and Iowa would have to be large enough to accomodate a semi. I agree that this intersection needs work (I've been rear-ended there going east, not west) but I don't know that a roundabout will solve the problem w/out creating new ones.

Jamesaust 11 years, 3 months ago

The roundabout proposal for Iowa/McDonald and Sixth (at least per this article) ignores the real traffic snafu there: eastbound traffic on Sixth that needs to turn north onto McDonald.

Presently, the only way to do this is to turn before the intersection - and poorly marked at that - at the previous one (Rockledge) and proceed downhill to a stop sign, and then - separately, proceed across southbound McDonald and then northbound McDonald. And do it one car at a time (because of the stop sign on Rockledge and the constant stream of traffic on McDonald).

Indeed, many locals seem to avoid this obstacle course, and instead turn way back at Lawrence Ave. and proceed downhill to Princeton, which eventually curves around to intersect with 2nd and McDonald. This creates additional traffic on those roads (past Deerfield Elementary, I note).

This plan monkeys with the intersection but ignores a quarter of the problem. I've seen far more serious accidents at Rockledge and McDonald (the substitute McDonald and Sixth) than I've seen at Iowa and Sixth (heading south).

Janet Lowther 11 years, 3 months ago

Sixth and Iowa/McDonald is about the worst of the lot, but the proposed solution is even worse than the existing situation.

A roundabout at 19th & Naismith would be a catastrophe during the basketball game rush.

I am completely perplexed by the 9th & Avalon proposal. I go past there with some frequency and I can't recall waiting on anyone to turn, much less seeing an accident.

I think roundabouts improve the safety at intersections where they are built only because people avoid 'em.

Lawrence roundabouts are mostly the dimensions of the next-to-smallest size of roundabouts I remember from driving in England, but the Brits don't have full size pickups and monster SUVs. And they know how to drive them. Americans have only the vaguest notion of how to drive them. This is greatly aggravated by allowing traffic to make left turns against the flow in small roundabouts.

I suspect the proposed roundabout on sixth & McDonald will dramatically increase the traffic on fourth street and ninth street.

conservative 11 years, 3 months ago

A single lane roundabout at 19th and Naismith would be an absolute disaster. It isn't wie enough to handle the game traffic and police wouldn't be able to change the light controls and keep traffic moving like they do now.

If they truly want to address 6th and Iowa (which needs to happen in my opinion) then this suggestion would just be a bandaid that would be extremely confusing for people new to the area(think yearly college students and parents that visit). If they filled in the valley north of 6th and extended 6th down to McDonald drive they could make the intersection work like a more traditional 4 way stoplight with turn lanes, but I can't even imagine the price tag for that type of project.

Fred Whitehead Jr. 11 years, 3 months ago

The mayor is right, most people do not want these things. Accidents are caused by stupid people who try to drive, eat, talk, and referee kids. What we need is more traffice law enforcement. Where are the cops? Oops, I forgot, if we made them work, the donut shops would suffer. Guess that wouldn't sit well, either.

KsTwister 11 years, 3 months ago

I can't wait to see a one lane roundabout on a 4-lane bridge at 6th and Iowa. Design engineers failed to create a roundabout at Clinton Parkway that would allow boats access to the Marina (a long one stopped traffic for hours last summer) without getting stuck. Fire trucks drive through the center or have to take detours. Your tax dollars at work. In 3-5 years the roundabouts themselves will need maintenance to keep them from looking like the rest of the cities streets and curbs. Now that will truly become a traffic problem.

Scott Tichenor 11 years, 3 months ago

Anyone that used to cross the intersection at 19th and Barker will know how that roundabout has virtually eliminated the five-minute stop/go/stop/go/stop required when more than a few cars were present. I used to go out of my way to avoid that intersection, but not since the roundabout. The problem with the roundabouts is that some of these, especially those in West Lawrence, are far too narrow. 19th and Naismith is another intersection I avoid on my way to and from picking up my daughter from school and for about any other reason to head that direction. It's a mess. Properly implemented, they work great, but please, make them wide enough. Even my compact car has trouble getting around some of those on Harvard over in new West Lawrence.

Porter 11 years, 3 months ago

"NO! NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO!

And not just NO, but HELL NO!"

-Another brilliant alternative suggestion from our genius friend, Pilgrim. Thanks for enlightening us once again!

Porter 11 years, 3 months ago

I'm happy to finally see positive comments about roundabouts on this forum. I'm also happy to see that more and more drivers are learning how to use them (although I still see quite a few people stopped at the entrance scratching their heads).

The article made it pretty clear that the solution for 6th and Iowa was to prohibit left turns from westbound traffic (while offering an opportunity to enter southbound Iowa from McDonald Dr.). I can't imagine another way to fix this intersection without tearing down the bridge and starting over. Unlike my friends on this forum, I'm no traffic engineer, though.

Personally, I think a large roundabout at Rockledge and McDonald would be MUCH more pleasing to the eye than the current swamp. Visitors coming off the Turnpike must be pretty impressed with the standing water and dirty underpass that they come through to enter the city now.

rhd99 11 years, 3 months ago

I just about got hit as I was navigating a roundabout the other day. I had the right of way & some vehicle encroached, almost ready to hit me! There! You happy now, roundabout proponents?! PEOPLE DON'T LEARN! That idiot driver who just about hit me knows nothing about roundabout safety. He/she must have been on their stinken cell phone or doing make up. Man, I hope it wasn't a man putting on make-up, YIKES! In terms of where roundabouts need to go, how 'bout none of the above & definitely not on 6th & Iowa! Eat my shorts, roundabout proponents!

Porter 11 years, 3 months ago

No thanks, rhd99. I don't like the taste of shorts.

I'm sorry to hear that you almost got hit in a roundabout. You should stick to four-way stops where nobody EVER gets t-boned by a drunk college kid, blind senior citizen, or inattentive transvestite...

I guess the "people don't learn" comment shouldn't bother me as much as it does. Many of my fellow Americans still don't know how long a metric meter is, where "American" cars are designed, or the fact that you don't have to be gay to get HIV.

rhd99 11 years, 3 months ago

Porter, thanks for the concern, but my comment about people who don't learn stems from their driving habits, & has nothing to do with their level of education. I am surprised some in Lawrence are smart enough to drive.

50YearResident 11 years, 3 months ago

If everyone wants to slow down traffic, why not just install raised islands down the center of the street between the lanes like we had for years on Iowa from 6th to 33rd St. Then after 500 cars are damaged by hitting the island the city could go back and dig them up and replace them with yellow stripes. That worked to slow people down and the cost was about $700,000. Roundabouts were made for ignorant drivers that don't know when it's thier turn to go through the intersection. But hey, it's free money better get it and run........

akuna 11 years, 3 months ago

Hell yes. Roundabouts are way too efficient to pass up on. I know many people don't like them, but that is because they are unusual. People don't know how to drive with them. That will change and accidents will be prevented. Please add more roundabouts to this city. I love them. I love not having to come to a complete stop when it is not needed. Roundabouts rock.

rhd99 11 years, 3 months ago

akuna, you better make damn sure that the other person encroaching on you, while NOT paying attention in that roundabout intersection is NOT on their stinken cell phone. How do you know accidents are preventable with these roundabouts? Do you have stats to back that evidence up? Prove your point.

Jackson 11 years, 3 months ago


Roundabouts work OK in divided 3-lane (each way) boulevards, i.e., Stockholm, Paris, Ward Parkway, etc., and where there are few pedestrians.

Roundabouts do NOT work on narrow streets (e.g., Lawrence) where there are many inexperienced drivers and LOTS of pedestrians!

Roundabouts should be an issue for (electing) city commissioners.

rhd99 11 years, 3 months ago

Thank you, Jackson! pro-roundabout supporters & City Staff & Commissioners, TAKE NOTE!

akuna 11 years, 3 months ago

Thanks for asking rhd99.

First off, the expert for KDOT in the article said so, secondly, this report* states this about roundabouts. "Except for grade separated interchanges no other type of traffic control exhibits such good safety performance, particularly for high traffic flows at high-speed intersections." While they are not perfect for every intersection, they are damn good at what they do.

I absolutely love the roundabout at 19th and Barker. I used to see traffic backed up 10 cars deep before the roundabout. Now cars back up to at most 3 deep.

People have to slow down at a roundabout and, in general, people have to pay attention to navigate them. People talking on cell phones are dangerous, but that rationale goes beyond roundabouts to all traffic conditions. And I hope that you are paying attention when you drive. The best defense is offense as they say.

Enjoy your next trip around a roundabout. Weeeeeeeee!


Time to get ready to watch the game. Rock chalk Jayhawk.

KsTwister 11 years, 3 months ago

People DO learn to navigate a roundabout, but being a college town,we just get one bunch educated and have to start ALL OVER AGAIN ! And then they don't stay long enough to pay for the darn thing.

davisnin 11 years, 3 months ago

The city only exists at this level because of the college so don't act like they don't pay their share. They contribute tons in sales tax and tons in property tax (its passed on in rent) and have almost no say in how the city is run.

I don't mind the roundabout at 19th and Barker, though I never trust drivers at yield signs. The one at 17th and New Hampshire is purely annoying. I remember one around 8th and Michigan(not sure) that was just too tight. That being said I worry about planners seeing them as some sort of panacea for accidents based on studies that may not completely apply to a specific intersection or traffic flow.

rhd99 11 years, 3 months ago

The whole city commission's role on roundabouts is FUBAR! End of subject. Thanks, oldgoof.

rhd99 11 years, 3 months ago

oldgoof, & biggunz have said it all. Get in back of the line, roundabout supporters!

Dayna Lee 11 years, 3 months ago

How about we start taking people's cars for traffic infractions!!!!

janeyb 11 years, 3 months ago

I'm trying to picture what pedestrians would do at 19th & Naismith. Where would students cross? I don't think KDOT has thought about that. I came close to hitting a pedestrian at 9th and Maine (I think that is where the light is) last week. It really shook me up. I was turning left from Maine to go west on 9th and suddenly there was a man and dog there, but then I realized that the sign indicated for him not to cross, but the light was green for him too! My passenger said he didn't have the right-of-way because he hadn't pushed the pedestrian button. I still don't know for sure, but will be more careful there from now on.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 11 years, 3 months ago

There is no such thing as pedestrian-friendly intersections in this car culture. Roundabouts are perfectly safe for pedestrians if drivers are looking for them, but anyone walking in this town knows that a huge percentage of drivers are not paying attention to them regardless of the type of intersection or who has the right of way.

thubbard76 11 years, 3 months ago

Here is my official plan for 6th and Iowa....

Westbound traffic on 6th will exit onto an elevated ramp while accellerating to 200mph. This will allow them to take the corkscrew road safely. After completing the loop-the-loop, all traffic will vent onto Kasold. Upon turning south onto Kasold, cars will be launched from a trebuchet back onto Iowa St, facing south. Simple right? That'll be $1,000,000 please.

rhd99 11 years, 3 months ago

Reality_Check, you need to face reality, DUDE! Roundabouts are NOT pedestrian friendly in Lawrence! On major highways, like in Kansas City or in Topeka or Wichita, maybe, but not here. By the way, Reality_ & all who support roundabouts, by building roundabouts you all rant proudly that they cut down on accidents. Until you can show me how roundabouts cut down on accidents, vice the stop lights or signs, you're full of B.S.!

budwhysir 11 years, 3 months ago

I say a roundabout on every corner, a tree in every median, and a smile on every face. Oh yeah almost forgot, a toll road on every county to support a university in every town.

ASBESTOS 11 years, 3 months ago

""I'm biased, but I think roundabouts are one of the most effective tools we have to address crash issues," said Brian Gower, state traffic engineer with KDOT. "From a safety perspective, I love them.""

SOunds like the KDOT employee is going with "what he wants" and not "whaqt the taxpayer wants", or "what is the most effective".

This idiot is why the Kansas Civil Service has a bad name. They hire wonks like this. This guy was probably somebodies husband and that is his qualification.

What a DUNCE!

SO now he is holding "taxpayer" funds for his "pet and admitted BIAS"???? This a-hole needs to go.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 11 years, 3 months ago

"From a safety perspective, I love them.""

"What a DUNCE!"

You obviously view safety as a trivial issue. No wonder you like nuclear power so much.

Porter 11 years, 3 months ago

Pilgrim kindly writes: "So, brainiac, your solution is... ?"

Porter: blushing "Aww, I'm no brainiac...but thanks!"

Why should I offer another solution? My previous posts were pretty clear that I think the roundabouts work, they're safer than 4-way stops, and they're far more convenient. I have no problems with KDOT's suggestions (or their money). If the city doesn't take the money because whiny people that can't figure out how to use a roundabout keep crying, THEN I'll have a cow.

Now, do you have any alternate suggestions besides the usual "No, no, no!"??

rhd99 11 years, 3 months ago

Bozo & ASBESTOS, I thank you two for helping back up my argument against these so-called traffic calming devices that are anti-calming devices because they are anti-pedestrian! As for the those working for KDOT civil servants & other Kansas civil servant "wonks" pushing this down our throats, SCREW YOU WONKS! You are the weakest links, BYE BYE! Bozo & ASBESTOS, have a good one.

bearded_gnome 11 years, 3 months ago

rhd, these are indeed bad for pedestrians, because they complicate unduly the intersection, and there's no clear time for the walkers to walk! finally, they increase risks for pedestrians who are children, disabled, or slow afoot.

thubbard: bigtime LOL! that's a great traffic plan including medieval devices.

rhd99 11 years, 3 months ago

By the way, BOOG says he supports these roundabouts, & can't guarantee that there won't be anymore built anytime soon. I wrote to him & the other commissioners, & he wrote back with a very long winded unsatisfying response. TYPICAL do nothing politician. Boog, YOU are not getting my vote ever again. So long, sucker!

ScottyMac 11 years, 3 months ago

I love roundabouts. They are awesome. They do so many things at once:

*They manage to both slow traffic down and improve traffic flow at the same time. Genius.

*They reduce the number and severity of accidents. Any collision will be a low-speed side-swipe rather than a dead-on high-speed collision.

*They are easier to navigate than a four-way stop.

*I, for one, as a pedestrian would rather cross though a roundabout than a four-way stop.

*They save money in the long run.

Anyone who thinks that they are too narrow plainly doesn't know what they are talking about. The roundabout out on Clinton Parkway, for example, is two-lanes wide. Go look at it. It just doesn't seem that way because of the way it's paved and painted.

Emergency vehicles, RVs, buses and most trucks can navigate them without difficulty. Do you honestly think that the engineers are so stupid that they wouldn't take vehicle size into consideration when they design them? The fire department has stated on record that they have no objection to them.

I think the city should build more of them, and ignorant comments like "No, No, No, Hell no" irritate me. Anyone who ever drove down 19th Street before the roundabout was built surely remembers how traffic would sometimes be backed up all the way to Mass. When was the last time that happened?

ASBESTOS 11 years, 3 months ago

" Do you honestly think that the engineers are so stupid that they wouldn't take vehicle size into consideration when they design them?"

YES! Ask the folks at the Hyatt about engineers and walkways. Just because an engineer is involved, does not make it right.

KsTwister 11 years, 3 months ago

Shoot, I probably would have missed that pedestrian if the art sculpture had not obstructed his silhouette.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 11 years, 3 months ago

"I wrote to him & the other commissioners, & he wrote back with a very long winded unsatisfying response. "

What would have satisified you? Should he have agreed with your position against roundabouts in spite of the fact that any objective look at them shows that they do exactly what they've been designed to do?

rhd99 11 years, 3 months ago

Bozo, give it up. Roundabouts are not pedestrian friendly. You want to build more roundabouts? Go ahead, & when you see accidents & pedestrian injuries, it'll come out of YOUR HIDE, fool!

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