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Archive for Thursday, February 1, 2007

House looking harder at language bill

Critics say measure to make English official is discriminatory, unnecessary

February 1, 2007

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— Supporters of making English the official language of Kansas said Wednesday the change will encourage immigrants to assimilate.

"It would reaffirm our melting pot tradition," Ben Piper, a spokesman for the Arlington, Va.-based ProEnglish, told the House Veterans, Military and Homeland Security Committee.

But opponents of House Bill 2140 said the measure was discriminatory, divisive and could hinder efforts by local governments to provide necessary information.

The committee took no action on the legislation, but Chairman Don Myers, R-Derby, who wrote the bill, appointed a subcommittee to work on it.

Myers said the bill was necessary to help "those who are not proficient to move in that direction."

Piper said studies show that immigrants who become proficient in English earn much more than those who don't.

But opponents said the bill was mean-spirited and unnecessary because most immigrants try to learn English as quickly as possible.

"The tone of this proposal is isolationist and narrow-minded and unfriendly," said Rep. Marti Crow, D-Leavenworth.

The proposal would designate English as the official language of Kansas, and local government entities would be required to provide information or written materials in English only. Governments would still be allowed the option of providing information in other languages.

But several officials from cities said they feared the legislation would impede their efforts in serving their communities.

"Our customers speak a variety of languages," City Manager Robert Halloran, of Garden City, said in written testimony. "Limiting your audience to just English in Garden City dramatically reduces the number of people you effectively serve."

Steve Cadue, chairman of the Kickapoo Tribe of Kansas, said the measure would inhibit those who speak other languages.

"Let us genuinely embrace diversity and learn from each other," Cadue said.

He and several others asked the committee to endorse "English Plus," which emphasizes the importance of learning English while also promoting the learning of other languages.

Comments

Baille 7 years, 10 months ago

Stupidity like this is why we have an 8 trillion dollar backlog on the maintenance of our public universities and colleges.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 7 years, 10 months ago

Some celebrate diversity, others celebrate xenophobia.

KS 7 years, 10 months ago

I find this bill to be one of the greater things this legislative session can do. It is a waste of time because the Governor will veto it.

james dick 7 years, 10 months ago

If there is any legislation in recent times (after unjust anti-gay legislation) that is discriminatory, unnecessary, an injustice, and downright mean is this stupidity. Why don't our legislators work on the real issues, like poverty, jobs, the environment? Such stupidity appalls me!

bd 7 years, 10 months ago

Its all about $ with me! Hey, maybe the money we save buy passing this bill will fund the Univ.'s defered maint. backlog costs! Or maybe the SLT!!!!!!!

Jamesaust 7 years, 10 months ago

"It will save the money from having to print ballots on numerous languages"

No, providing ballots in the language of the voter is a constitutional mandate. (Where do you find a provision allowing the disenfranchisement of voters who don't speak English or don't speak it well?) Ditto any other 'core' right.

In other words, yahoos who can barely speak the languge themselves do not have a choice of just saying 'nope'.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 7 years, 10 months ago

"Why should language be any different?"

Perhaps because it's different.

bd 7 years, 10 months ago

These/your comments are all in ENGLISH !!!!!!!!!!!

Enough said!

Plurilingual 7 years, 10 months ago

"ENGLISH" is not an English word bd. Unfortunately, capitalization has meaning in English. You also made a grammatical mistake by placing multiple exclamation points at the end of your sentence. Are you sure that all the comments are in English?

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 7 years, 10 months ago

"These/your comments are all in ENGLISH !!!!!!!!!!! Enough said!"

As plurilingual points out, there's a lot of really bad English on these forums, most notably by those who are most rabid about passing xenophobic "English-only" laws. The irony of that is rather striking.

werekoala 7 years, 10 months ago

You know, if we really wanted to encourage assimilation, we'd spend much more time trying to reach out to community leaders and encourage ESL classes for adults.

Kids raised here pretty much always learn at least rudimentary English - no problem there, but it does take a couple of years for them to do it, which puts them at a disadvantage vs. other kids in their age group.

I guess it's funny to me that all the "conservatives" who always preach the evils of government intervention are all about the government intervening in this particular case.

Heck, just look at the problems France has, people - they have a government body that determines what is and what is not "proper" French, and mounds of legal hassles to approve each new word or concept that evolves - it really holds them back, and is a major reason why French will never be an international language of commerce - it evolves too slow.

Contrast this with English, whose very strength has always been that it is a mongrel tongue that grew unregularted and unrestrained, gobbling up and assimilating any new ords or concepts it encountered on its way to being the largest language and de facto lingua franca for business and communication around the world.

I just don't see a need for this, other than as feel-good anti-furriner legislation that totally misses the vital dynamics of the immigration and assimilation experience. And I find it funny that "conservatives" are always willing to abandon their small-government principles for Big Government that they agree with.

Baille 7 years, 10 months ago

For those who think this will save us money, please educate us as to how much money it will save. How much are we spending on ballots in foreign languages? And how will this bill change that? (Aren't national election laws regulated by federal law? I remember Thornburg talking about that during the election. So we just change state and local laws? Great! Let's disenfranchise our citizens who don't speak English. good idea.) And how much are we spending on "translators in public places?" I have never seen one outside of the legal system. How much do we spend on forms? And what do we do with those people who still need the information but don't read the language well enough?

This is a stupid waste of time and money. Furthermore it is a kind of discrimination that I feel has no place in the United States and certainly no place in Kansas.

Plurilingual 7 years, 10 months ago

I remember one of my instructors back in my college days relating a story about her efforts to encourage German language classes in area high schools. One principal she visited was insistent that they would do no such thing. His reasoning was that if God had intended for people to speak German, then the Holy Bible would have been written in German instead of English. No kidding!

I guess the solution is to stone those who are discovered to be speaking non-English languages.

"Hasta la vista, baby."

Baille 7 years, 10 months ago

There you go, Werebear. Let's be more like France! Nice post.

white_mountain 7 years, 10 months ago

There's no need to complicate this: we speak English in this country.

We don't need to accomodate 16+ languages for official government business.

If I were emigrating to a country, I would feel an obligation to learn that country's language BEFORE I even emigrated.. you adapt to your new country, you don't demand the new country to adapt to you.

countrygirl 7 years, 10 months ago

So does that mean we also need to start printing ballots in French, German, Chinese---you get the idea. Where do you draw the line at how many versions of the same document are available.

werekoala 7 years, 10 months ago

Baille-

Maybe that's how opponents should frame the debate:

"Do we REALLY want to be more like France?"

staff04 7 years, 10 months ago

Posted by just_another_bozo_on_this_bus (anonymous) on February 1, 2007 at 8:06 a.m. (Suggest removal)

"Some celebrate diversity, others celebrate xenophobia."

In English please, bozo... ;)

I'd put BIG money down that says that 75% of the people who support this bill don't know what xenophobia means...

staff04 7 years, 10 months ago

And now, for a more serious comment.

This is just another weak attempt at impotent Republicans to try to hide from the real problem of illegal immigration by stomping around, huffing and puffing, putting on a show for you all so you'll continue to believe that they are actually capable of governing.

How about some strict employer sanctions? What's that you say? How will you harvest all the wheat on your giant corporate farm? Dunno, but good luck getting it done with what I assume is an all English speaking crew.

oldgoof 7 years, 10 months ago

staff04 is correct. Until both sides gets serious, both hide behind "see-I-am-doing-something" legislation that doesn't solve a thing. This is just one of those proposals, as is all the silly fence stuff. .. We would be better served if they would each buy a paint brush and fix some university buildings.

white_mountain 7 years, 10 months ago

agreed staff, employer sanctions would be a marvelous first step

Mexihouse 7 years, 10 months ago

I find it strange, that when my family moved from Mexico in the early 1900's from Mexico, and as my Grandpa told it, they were learning English as they worked on the Railroad and made their way to Kansas and settled here. I believe laziness and disrespect is the flavor of this problem today. I feel that as a Mexican American, we should learn English, it is what is spoken and the most fluent communication in this country. I really do not see the need for the argument. Illegals should be deported, go through the correct process as my ancestors did, and learn English without ever forgettng your true Mexican roots. It is not that hard, I still eat Mole' and Menudo on Christmas, and celebrate Cinco de Mayo and dÃ-a de los muertos.

Mexihouse 7 years, 10 months ago

Oh, and after all of the Republican comments, I am a Democrat just for an FYI

Richard Heckler 7 years, 10 months ago

And after 61 years I have been under the impression that english has been the primary langauge not only in Kansas but across the land. Where has the legislature been?

My turkish nephew can speak four languages english being among them. So many families of other than USA american can speak two langugages fluently which may put them a bit more advanced than Kansas legislators,

An italian/american family sports 3 children who speak both languages fluently. It would make more sense for the legislature to mandate Kansas students become fluent in spanish. They could begin learning say at the third grade level.

Mexihouse 7 years, 10 months ago

I do agree with Merrill on the fluent languages, it has helped in the careers of my family immensely speaking English and Spanish. They say the man who speaks two languages is a man in need.

staff04 7 years, 10 months ago

Posted by countrygirl (anonymous) on February 1, 2007 at 10:20 a.m. (Suggest removal)

"So does that mean we also need to start printing ballots in French, German, Chinese"

I was just thinking that there are probably a number of American citizens, legally entitled to vote, who don't speak English, so yes. Constitutionally, we could never stop printing ballots in other languages unless we make language a citizenship requirement.

Baille 7 years, 10 months ago

Why doesn't Don Myers send a group of people to National Beef to investigate why the employ illegal aliens? Why don't they head out to Garden City? Why doesn't he start cracking down on the employers in Wichita?

Why not do something substantive to deal with the ongoing issue of illegal aliens in this state and the dependency of our economy on illegal aliens as an alternative (cheap) labor source?

Rather than face a complex issue that involves vast economic disparity between adjacent nations, the U.S. market's need for cheap labor, and the failure of nearly every state and the federal government to enforce our immigration laws, our legislators spend time on this kind of crap.

C'mon. How much do we pay these bozos to waste our time and money? Maybe we need to be more like Nebraska and just deal with them every couple of years.

Leprechaunking13 7 years, 10 months ago

My big deal with this is licenses to drive. What is the language that all of our street signs are in? I believe it's English, is it not? If they don't speak English than how should they be allowed on the road that they can't read the signs? Plus, why should we allow immigrants to come here and expect us to provide them with stuff in their language. We speak English here, so immigrants should learn it. If you moved to another country you would be expected to learn the language of that culture, why should it be different here?

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 7 years, 10 months ago

"If you moved to another country you would be expected to learn the language of that culture, why should it be different here?"

We regularly send ambassadors to other countries who speak no language other than English. And Americans in general have a well-deserved reputation of not learning the local language(s) while living abroad.

Baille 7 years, 10 months ago

By that logic, it should be illegal to be illiterate.

Maybe our immigrant friends can read the signs just fine, they just can't read the grievance procedure for getting withheld wages through the Kansas Department of Labor. For example, I learned to recognize the traffic signs in France, Germany, and the other countries I have been to and unwisely decided to drive in by looking at the picture manual (printed in 'Merican, by the way) and memorizing the meaning of the funny foreign symbols printed on the uniquely shaped signage.

"[W]hy should we allow immigrants to come here and expect us to provide them with stuff in their language."

Because we are the f-ing United States of America, for God's sake. We take in the poor, the tired, the huddled masses yearning to be free and we give their vision of what they can be the space and freedom to be realized. We aren't France. We aren't Japan. We aren't Libya. We are the United States. We are a tossed salad of peoples united in our individual freedom and bound by our responsibility to govern ourselves. We have not become what we are by legislating discrimination or by including amendments to our state or federal constitutions that incorporate bigotry and exclusion. What we are becoming, though, is something less than what we aspired to be.

werekoala 7 years, 10 months ago

For all you people saying "If they want to live here, they should learn English" - I agree.

My question to you is - How? How should they learn it? In their native poverty to which the sub-minimum wage jobs and sleeping 10 to a 2-bedroom apartment is an upgrade?

I agree, we do need a common language, and English is already, and will continue to be the de facto language of the counrty there is no threat of it being overtaken, no one is going to force you to speak Spanish, and those who refuse to learn it will continue to be ghettoized in their own insular communities.

But the way to assimilate them is not to dream up inventive and divisive new ways to make their lives harder - it's by reaching out to community leaders to encourage both young and old to embrace the language of their new counrty, by taking ESL classes for adults.

This is just silly, petty, and shortsightedness. Nothing less than what I'd expect from the Leg.

Leprechaunking13 7 years, 10 months ago

Signs printed in what language? Did you say in Mexican? I don't believe that's a language, they speak SPANISH there, good one though baille. Have you ever thought that maybe this country needs to not worry about taking in more and more and more and more people, that maybe we should learn to take care of the people that are already here and are citizens than adding more and more to take care of.

werekoala 7 years, 10 months ago

"maybe we should learn to take care of the people that are already here and are citizens than adding more and more to take care of."

The problem is, with the coming demographic shortfall of productive workers as Baby Boomers retire, we're going to need additional workers to keep the economy going strong and take care of all those old folks.

It's not just that simple, Leprechaunking13 - anyone who pretends it is is just acting as a demagauge - watch your wallet.

Baille 7 years, 10 months ago

"Did you say in Mexican?"

I said in "'Merican." The apostrophe is significant.

don_burgess 7 years, 10 months ago

Making english the official language of this state will not make the non-english speakers suddenly fluent in this tounge.

SAVING MONEY ON PRINTED MATERIALS! OMG!!! WHAT A JOKE!!! What about blind or deaf people? Will they have to learn the english versions of brail or sign language after this retarded law is passed?

Mediocraty runs rampant amung law-makers in kansas. HEY DON MEYERS! YOU RETARD!!! Find something better to do with your time, you loser! ! ! ! !

Mike Ford 7 years, 10 months ago

Halito, Osiyo, Megwitch, Yah'tee, Washte Yelo, and for the foreigners, hello. Chahta, my language, was used as a code language in World War One to thwart the German forces as they surrounded the "Lost Battalions" of American Expeditionary Forces in France and Germany. As Choctaw was being used as a code language with a dozen or so other Indigenous languages. At the same time, hundreds of tribal boarding schools, including Haskell, were punishing tribal children for speaking their languages since there had been a governmental decree requiring that only English was to be spoken at these boarding schools that was enforced starting in 1886. This also dealt with tribal religions, which is why the children who didn't want to be beaten escaped to practice their religions in their languages in the wetlands. Basically, language and culture are hand in hand. The problem lies that in the colonial mindset of America, there really is no culture, only bureaucratically-forced uniformity. This moron of a politician is a perfect example. Knowing, Mr. Cadue, this guy is lucky he didn't get an earful after the earful that he got during the testimony. I almost feel like saying "Sprechen sie Deutche, Ouslander?" to people like this clown and the clown that heads the Kansas Republican Party, Kris Kobach.

ASBESTOS 7 years, 10 months ago

You idiots supporting illegal aliens are incredible! Stated as above:

"You know, if we really wanted to encourage assimilation, we'd spend much more time trying to reach out to community leaders and encourage ESL classes for adults."

Well we cannot educate our own people, NOW we are supposed to spend money here ILLEGALLY!!! We are supposed to BEND OVER BACKWARDS for them??

The reason that Kansas is aging, is there is nothing to keep people here. The economy sucks, and there are better growth opportunities outside Kansas, because of stupidity legislative and political.

The schools are shutting down because they cannot afford to run 2 seperate classes one in english and one in spanish. The hospitals are shutting down because they cannot keep delivering babies of unwed illegal alien (ahem) women, for free.

We cannot afford anything attached to these illegal aliens without fully evaluating what the real economic and quality of life costs these exploited people assail unto our communities.

It is like the global warming debate, you yell and holler it is CO2 and it is from man made sources, however if true the math and consumption of that opinion is that we cannot fix it, period. There are too many attitions in CHINA of CO2, building one coal fired powerplant per day.

That is the same thing driving people to come here from latin America and Mexico. Their own counties will NOT give up the corruption and let the country westernize, so they go to where the westernized life is ... here.

Don't start with the poor old Native American stuff. Doesn't anyone move on and look at the future? The future poor Native American with illegal immigration does not include ANY other race other than hispanic and latino.

You have no further than to look at LA, and the Latino gangs teeing off on African Americans. Killing them, that is right KILLING an AFRICAN AMERICAN why???, Because they are African American.

Racist! YOU BET!!!

People ned to understand that bleeding heart liberalism is being buying the BS from these illegal alies supporters, and AMERICAN CITIZEN MINORITIES and LEGAL IMMIGRANTS pay the prioce!!

Wake the F UP!!!!!!!

werekoala 7 years, 10 months ago

"Well we cannot educate our own people, NOW we are supposed to spend money here ILLEGALLY!!! We are supposed to BEND OVER BACKWARDS for them??"

I don't know if you're aware, but there are many foreign born citizens here legally who don't speak english? Those are the ones I'm talking about.

But okay, yeah, let's have a frank illegal immigration discussion:

What to do? Round up 11 million-odd folks and deport them? Great idea Jethro - do you have any idea how big of an undertaking that is, just logistically? Hell, it took the Nazis all of WWII to KILL that many people.

In other words, pretending we can just ship them out and close the door behind them is infantile at best - it'd be great if it would work, but we haven't the resources, and even if we did, each guy we kick out will be replaced by three more just like him tomorrow.

People like you, ASBESTOS, have been BSed into believing these people come here in a vaccuum -- it's simply not true. They come here for many reasons, mostly because this is where they can get jobs. If we want to stop them from coming over here, we have to get serious about cracking down on the hiring of illegal immigrants.

And while there's definately a cost associated with them, they aren't bankrupting us -- far from it, by providing a lower-than-minimum-wage labor pool, and failing to take any of our social benefits like Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, or Workman's Comp, most economists have concluded that they actually have a short-term benefit to the economy, even when their health care costs are included in the analysis.

However, the long-term problem they bring is depressed wage growth among citizens and lack of ability for law-abiding employers to compete. This low wage potential diminishes starting wages for native citizens, disincentivizing them to enter the job market, and contributing to the stereotype "Mexicans do the work Americans won't do."

So it is a serious problem, but they are only part of it, and you can't blame the whole social edifice we've built around a cheap and disposable underground labor force entirely on them.

Oh, and the illegal immigrants make up a minority of the write-offs most hospitals are faced with - for every illegal immigrant, there are two native-born folks with no insurance also skipping out on unaffordable bills. But the mess our health care system is in is another topic.

ASBESTOS 7 years, 10 months ago

Here ya go idiot that doesn't know what you are talking about. here is an official counter that chows how much they are costing us. Stick your head in the sand if you want. But if you believe the math with golbal warming, you have to get a clue with the level of these numbers and the out come.

http://www.immigrationcounters.com/

Baille 7 years, 10 months ago

Clearly screwing the legal immigrants in our country who struggle with English will fix all the problems in our state. We don't need to enforce immigraion laws by actually going to the processing plants or the large municipalities that rely on their low wage labor. Simply printing crap in English will solve the problem. We don't need to acknowledge the economic realities and pressures of our neighbors to the south. We don't have to start thinking about how we are going to adapt and remain competitive in a world in which we are no longer the engine of teh global economy. We just have to print crap in English. Thank God our legislators aren't wasting their time and energy on frivolous stuff.

Furthermore, making Kansas an English-only state will help prop up our 125 counties and umpteen-gazzilion school districts, which our population can not continue to support. It will reviltalize our rural communities decimated by corporate farming practices and the unavoidable pressure of a more robust global economy.

Whew! The silver bullet. That was good thinking, Legsilators. Thanks.

budwhysir 7 years, 10 months ago

How hard do we have to look at this? People will learn enough english to get what they need, end of need for passing a law saying english is mandatory.

gbulldog 7 years, 10 months ago

Think about the safety issue? Do you want someone who is caring for you or your loved one not be able to communicate. Has that person been properly trained? If they cannot speak or read English, how do you know if the caretaker know the rules and regualations? Is the employer testing them?

If they drive, are you safe on the road? Think about the wreck near Junction City yesterday that killed what appears to be an illegal immigrant.

Besides English, what languages should I learn?

werekoala 7 years, 10 months ago

"here is an official counter that chows how much they are costing us"

That's not an official counter - it's just a site set up by some anonymous person with a web connection. And their methodology is dodgy at best - for instance, they try to make a point of Mexico having some great economy b/c it's got the 3rd largest GDP in NA - no feces, Sherlock, it's 10x bigger and more populated than the next-largest country. That's like saying, see, that dog CAN'T be starving - he weighs more than a mouse.

Look, buddy, I'm not saying we don't have a problem with illegal immigration - we do, but demonizing the illegals won't fix things by itself. We have to change the way we run our entire society, and also prepare for the costs on any labor-intensive products to go up by ~50% -- fine by me, that's the price they should be, but even though prices have been kept artificially low, I don't want to hear you squawking about it.

The only people who have their heads in the sand are those who have suddenly realized that there's a problem with illegal immigration 4 years into Bush's term -- where were you guys in 2002? I'm not saying there's not a problem, but your passions are being cynically inflamed so that politicians can have some cause to rally folks behind - it sure as hell won't be their record!

Demand better, more comprehensive solutions that actually solve the fundamental problems - don't be bought off by feel-good half-measures.

Baille 7 years, 10 months ago

This bill isn't about teaching anyone anything.

Baille 7 years, 10 months ago

"Don't waste our taxes trying to learn them?" Doesn't sound quite right.

This bill is not about "teaching" or "learning" anyone anything.

It is about wasting time and energy on something stupid while our "representatives" ignore our crumbling universities, the depletion of the Ogallala, the spoiling of teh Kaw, the withering of our rural communities, the failure of our community mental health system, the backlog in our judicial system, and the other major issues facing our state.

roger_o_thornhill 7 years, 10 months ago

Here's some English for you: Stop wasting time and money you jackasses!

If you @holes can't find more pressing issues to debate, maybe you are in the wrong place! Baille's suggested six issues right here and I'd bet s/he isn't even in the legislature.

ASBESTOS 7 years, 10 months ago

In the Swift raid, there were 246 people taken into custody out of 1246 illegal workers. Those 246 illegal aliens were taken into custody for identity theft. Meaning a full 1/6th of those illegal alien workers were criminals, and those that understand English are more likely to be in the identity theft crimes.

Think you want to keep them ignorant now?

Baille 7 years, 10 months ago

So English-only statutes promote identity theft? Sounds like a bad law all around. :)

Of course, that was Colorado, right? Why aren't our political leaders doing stuff like that rather than wasting our time and money on English-only legislation?

ASBESTOS 7 years, 10 months ago

That was Colorade, Nebraska, Texas, and Oklahoma. TYson is in Kansas, and had an illegal immigrant in Emporia whom was taken to the hospital from the Tyson food plant and he later died. What from you ask? TB!!! This guy was working at a food processing facility while having non active TB. 38 others at the plant were tested and 6 had TB. WORKING AT THE PLANT!! NOw TB is difficult to spread via food, however, IF the workers had active and non active TB, WHAT OTHER DISEASES or PARASITES, or VIRUSES that could food bourne do they have.

OF course, KDHE look and screened for TB, but nothing else. EVERY ILLEGAL ALIEN NEEDS TO BE VACINATED FOR THE FULL SPECTRUM THAT AMERICAN CITIZENS HAVE BEEN VACANATED FOR. Addiionally TB is a CLASS I notifiable disease. IT IS ILLEGAL to work around food with a CLASS I communicable disease. KDHE should be shutting Tyson down until they get the health screenings for the workers completed. AND that is on the company's dime, not the taxpayer, and not the illegal alien's.

That is how you end disease and ensure Public health.

Those laws are BTW in ENGLISH.

ASBESTOS 7 years, 10 months ago

http://www.kansas.com/mld/kansas/16559414.htm

Oh and illegal aliens account for 62% of the active TB cases in Kansas.

You idiots need to wise up. Your families are in danger, because most of the children have stopped being vaccanated for TB.

BOE 7 years, 10 months ago

All of which is not addressed by this bill.

werekoala 7 years, 10 months ago

ASBESTOS-

I agree with your points about food handling and vaccination - a disease doesn't care whether you're here legally or not, only what chance it has to spread to others.

But that's exactly my point -- that's the kind of thing that should result in hearings, fines, deportations, and imprisonment, for both workers and employers.

Not this half-assed bill that eschews real solutions in favor of political grandstanding.

If you want tougher enforcement of immigration, fake ID, food handling, and employment laws, I'm right behind you. If you want to prevent unauthorized border crossings, again, I'm right there with you. If you want to eliminate ALL of the incentives that attract illegals to our country, brother, you have my vote for president.

But if you think this bill accomplishes even part of any of that, well, you're being used by politicians. And if the politicians are idiots, what does that say about the guy who is manipulated by an idiot?

ASBESTOS 7 years, 10 months ago

"If you want to eliminate ALL of the incentives that attract illegals to our country, brother, you have my vote for president."

And a major incentive is allowing and aiding the non-english speaking illegal by bending over backwards to accomidate them with extra forms, and extra translators in the State Civil Service.

Politicians are idiots and delf serving on both sides. THere are idiots that support illegal aliens, and then there are those that apologise for them and accomidate them. I do none of those, I want them gon, and the border secured. But anything that takes away incentive is working. The threat is there now and we are starting to see the entrants numbers fall quite a bit.

Hell Mexico, has spanish as the official language. I think the US and the State governments have accomidated the non-english speakers enough. Like the lady whom was arrested in KC on her way to the hospital because she was pregnant and haveing associated bleeding. She could hardly speak and let the officers know she was having medical problems, AND the car she was driving had FAKE plates (another common occurance with illegal aliens), she had no dirvers license (another common occurance with illegal aliens.

In my belief system, I f you are not an American Citizen or LEGAL entrant, or legal resident, or a legal immigrant, WE OWE YOU NOTHING, except pain, discomfort, inconvienence, and deportation after fully investigation these criminals (they are all criminals by entering the US illegally (misdemeanor) and by using fake ID to work (Felony use of SSN and ID fraud).

THese people are NOT what we want to have this done.

Putting things together now:

62% of the TB cases in Kansas are from illegal aliens Illegal alien criminals incarcerated are usually arrested 6-7 times before they are tried and incarcerated, and there are as many as 700,000 illegal alien criminals in our country. IF each of them did 6-7 crimes before they were arrested 42 million to 49 million major crimes just from thses illeal aliens.

Again it is crazy that those that can follow the math of global warming and accept that, cannot accept the sheer numbers of illegal aliens.

ASBESTOS 7 years, 10 months ago

The rewarding of illegal aliens with instate tuition costs, while denying American Citizens outside the state the same rights is unconstitutional. The illegal aliens that get this benefit are being given special and racial protection that is ILLEGAL under ANTI DISCRIMINATION LAWS.

When you allow this, you are eroding solid Anti-discrimination law. The minorities pay the price for a bunch of criminals.

I wonder why when politicians always stick their finger in the air and follow polling, whey seem tone deaf on the issue of illegal aliens and the security of the border.

The Turition bill is another incentive to encourage illegals to come to this country, and to shell out another anchor baby.

BTW, in the 14th anmedment concerning birth, was the discussion of LEGAL ENTRANTS. IT is not "wet foot dry foot" like we give the Cubans. There will be a lot of them attempting to come here soon afte Fidel dies.

That is why we have laws folks. To keep things stable and consistent. When you make allowances for illegal aliens, you water down all the laws.

Claire Williams 7 years, 10 months ago

I don't encourage ILLEGAL immigration, and I agree with points that have been made in this thread that something needs to be done about it. But discriminating and punishing those who do not speak or read English is not an effective way to accomplish it. What ever happened to:

"Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed, to me: I lift my lamp beside the golden door."

The attitude I see every day from Caucasians towards Hispanics makes me sick. It is turning uglier every day as we degenerate into a Mississippi-style lynch mob. You can not tell by looking at a person or listening to their accent if they are here legally or illegally. If you go back far enough in your family tree, you are the product of immigration.

The Center for Immigration Studies estimates that the US admits between 700,000 and 900,000 immigrants LEGALLY each year. Are we going to disenfranchise those legal immigrants because of the illegal ones that are also here? I can think of 3 families of legal immigrants I know who have been here for at least 10 years. There are members of all three families (usually the oldest members) that still do not speak or read English well if at all.

For those of you that say, "If they want to live here, they should LEARN English": I agree with your premise, but you don't follow your point through to it's logical conclusion. HOW are they to learn? Have you ever tried to learn a second language as an adult, with no immersion in it during school? If not, try it and then get down off of your high horse.

That article explains research showing that after a certain age, it can become almost impossible for an adult to pick up a second language without extensive training. Like state subsidized ESL classes. Or what about Kansas communities stepping up to the plate to provide free ESL classes taught by volunteers? There are hundreds of resources on the internet for those interested in teaching ESL.

Only printing documents in English is not going to "Encourage" people to learn the language. It is only going to make them desperate for help and hinder them as they try to make a place for themselves in society.

Try reading Geoffrey Pullum's "Here come the Linguistic Fascists" on reasons why the 'English First' movement is a ridiculous waste of time.

How about we also stop printing documents and ballots in Braille for the blind? That would save us some valuable taxpayer money that can be used to pay our legislators for wasting time on frivolous bills.

ASBESTOS 7 years, 10 months ago

"I lift my lamp beside the golden door."

Hence you must COME IN the "Golder Door". If you don't, your poor huddled massess will be breathing back in the countryof origin.

"You can not tell by looking at a person or listening to their accent if they are here legally or illegally."

By federal law they are supposed to wurrender themselves to the federal authorities. Employers are supposed to verify whom IS legal to work, and IF they are giving them false Identification.

You Ducky, are just "Spinning" this in to an anti legal immigration, which it is not. MOST of those 700,000 to 900,000 can speak english. However your numbers are wrong, there are only 140,000 applications allowed for B-1B residents and 150,000 applications for legal resident. So you are LYING!!!

Legal immigrants are ok and need to be supported. ILLEGALS SHOULD RECEIVE NO PORTION OF HELP. The Illegals are the ones causing the biggest problem.

Idiots like you cannot see a bad thing when it is happening to you. This is where the Democrats and Liberals As well the REPUKES that support or ignore illegal immigration are like domestic abuse victims. The know what the problem is, but are failing to address and take action. Therefore they are tacetly approving of it.

Try doing some math you idiot, and look at the numbers of illegals and what they are doing to our country.

Only a fool and an idiot would ignore this:

http://www.immigrationcounters.com/

Claire Williams 7 years, 10 months ago

"However your numbers are wrong, there are only 140,000 applications allowed for B-1B residents and 150,000 applications for legal resident. So you are LYING!!!"

My numbers came directly from this page at the Center for Immigration Studies:

http://www.cis.org/topics/legalimmigration.html

Where are YOUR numbers that back the claim that most of them can speak english?

"You Ducky, are just "Spinning" this in to an anti legal immigration, which it is not."

No sir, my point was that this bill hurts ANYBODY who doesn't speak English, regardless of their immigration status. It is like Breed Specific Legislation laws against Pit Bull-type breeds; it punishes the whole for the deeds of a few.

"Legal immigrants are ok and need to be supported. ILLEGALS SHOULD RECEIVE NO PORTION OF HELP. The Illegals are the ones causing the biggest problem."

I believe the preamble to my statement was... 'I don't encourage ILLEGAL immigration, and I agree with points that have been made in this thread that something needs to be done about it. But discriminating and punishing those who do not speak or read English is not an effective way to accomplish it.'

So you and I are on the same page there, buddy. Illegals should not live here on the citizen's dime. But nowhere in your multiple posts have you made it clear to me how THIS BILL will help that issue without unfairly hurting others. And since you just said "Legal immigrants are ok and need to be supported", I can't possibly fathom how you don't see how this bill would hurt the legal immigrants too.

And since that IS the topic at hand, and not how many illegals are in the country, or how they are spreading TB (lock up your chilluns!), please stop posting that website over and over, and actually address your reasons (preferably logical ones) for supporting this bill.

ASBESTOS 7 years, 10 months ago

You quote mined there DUcky, the rest of the quote you left off was "half of whom are already living here, some illegally, some legally on temporary visas." So they are not "legally here".

A recent email sent to the KDHE EPI group talking about the workers having TB and working at the Tyson Plant in Emporia. IT seems that the KDHE is not concerned too much about the coorelation between the mumps cases, whooping cough outbreak, and the TB cases being centered in areas that cater to and employ illegal aliens.

ASBESTOS 7 years, 10 months ago

Dear Mr. Griffin,

Thank for an apparently "apolgetic" response n your part. However I must point out that Kansas Health Regulations and Statutes define TB as a Category I disease. That means it is ILLEGAL for a person to work in a food processor with a Category 1 infectious disease. Furthermorre, since so many were found to have TB working for the Tyson Food Processor in Emporia, there should be additional tests of all the people under the statures, which state if "unknown conditions" exist in the food processing or food preparations, the State Health Agency must do further investigaiton.

It appears as if you brain dead Civil Servants looked only at the TB. There are a host of other diseases that ARE infectious and a concern with food such as SARS (you got a grant on that), BSE, ( you got a grant on that AND added it to the Regulated disease reporting list) and a host of others that are around communities of newly arrived refugees that have not been properly vacanated, and illegal aliens whom work at food processing facilities that do not have proper vaccanations.

Your own MAP shows the problem. The TB outbreaks and case numbers are highest in areas that have food processors, consequently this demographic has a lower quality of health, a lower quality of health care, and have poor nutrition as well. Candidates for an incubation point of a very bad disease vector and an inocculation point for the prople of Kansas and beyond because of the proximity to food.

http://www.kdheks.gov/epi/download/disease_summary/2005/Maps/TBdisease_map05.pdf

ASBESTOS 7 years, 10 months ago

(letter continued)

You guys need to wake up!! KDHE has always been a bunch of putzes, but you are sinking to a new low in pulling the wool over your own eyes, in addition to not informing the public because your agency is so incompetent in carrying out your mission. PLEASE read your mission statement, as write me back with a straight face and tell me you are doing everything correctly. You are champions at sticking your heads in the sand.

If you cannot seperate out your tacet political support fo illegal immigrants that are sick and working in our food processing plants, from YOUR DUTIES to protect us from those infectious diseases AND THSOE THAT CARRY these infectious diseases, you all need to quit, or get fired.

Remember that whooping cough outbreak and the mumps outbreaks? COmes from the same demographjic does it not?

Here is your other MAP:

http://www.kdheks.gov/epi/download/disease_summary/2005/Maps/Pertussis_map05.pdf

I am an Environmental Scientist, and do a little epi study on industrial diseases. Clearly the infectious diseases as supported by your data means that the health problems in the State of Kansa are directly associated with counties and cities that harbor or hire illegal aliens and relocated refugees. That is right, Kansas is trading health costs and increased risk of disease for the cheaper labor.

A blind man could see it, however Civil Servants are politically motivated individuals, and will either conceal incompetency or political activism at the expense of their duties of a public health professional.

I hold nothing but contempt for you.

Claire Williams 7 years, 10 months ago

From the site I cited:

"it represents the total number of people who were granted permanent residence ("green cards"), half of whom are already living here, some illegally, some legally on temporary visas."

So yes, some of that 700-900k contained people who were here illegally and then gained LEGAL status.

Semantics aside, you refused to answer my question and explain your hopefully logical reasons for supporting this bill. You simply posted an email regarding TB at the Tyson plant. Which, as I have pointed out before, has absolutely NOTHING to do with this topic or this bill.

An interesting point though, since you are so worried about that issue....if this bill were to pass, I wonder if it would mean handwashing signs in employee areas would no longer be posted in both English and Spanish. Wonder what would happen to the health and hygiene of the workers then?

We all get it, Asbestos. You don't like illegal immigrants, and you think they are all dirty and carry TB. Now please just debate the issue at hand (the bill) or get off of your soapbox.

roger_o_thornhill 7 years, 10 months ago

Why is this an either/or situation? Just because English isn't official language doesn't mean that non-English speakers must be accommodated, right? And just because you don't speak English doesn't mean you are here illegally. There are many "natural born" citizens with only a rudimentary understanding of the language that can attest to that. There's no law requiring public speech to be "dumbed down" so that the masses can understand.

"assinine"-- You know that word has nothing to do with asses. It is asinine.

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