City commission discusses Bauer Farm, post office move
Stores in a coming development near Free State High School can now sell alcoholic beverages. Enlarge video
Mintoy Tolbert, Lawrence, gets her mail from her post office box at the city's main post office, 645 Vt. City commissioners are looking at a new proposal to move the downtown post office and redevelop downtown's west side.
A deal to move the U.S. post office off its current downtown site is still brewing, and city commissioners Tuesday evening attempted to give it a nudge.
City commissioners on a 4-1 vote agreed to send a second letter to postal leaders assuring them that the city has no problem with the post office leaving its current location at Seventh and Vermont streets to make way for additional downtown development.
Commissioners, though, pledged their support with one major caveat: The U.S. Postal Service must have a facility somewhere downtown that still allows patrons to send packages and pick up mail. In other words, commissioners want the retail portion of the post office to stay downtown, but the distribution center operations - the sorting and stacking of mail - could move to another part of town.
"Continuing to have the strong retail presence and the P.O. boxes is absolutely critical," City Commissioner Rob Chestnut said.
The letter follows up on a letter the city sent in July 2006 to the Postal Service saying the city "would not object" to the post office moving its distribution center options out of downtown.
But the latest letter gets more specific. In particular, the new city letter raises the possibility of the Postal Service contracting with a downtown business or entity to operate the retail portion of the downtown postal operations. That would be similar to how the Postal Service contracts with various grocery stores to sell stamps and accept mail.
Commissioners said they were fine with the Postal Service turning over its downtown operations to a contractor, as long as the new space had P.O. boxes and all the other amenities currently offered at the existing post office. Where the new space may be located is unknown.
"I think all options are probably on the table, as long as it functions the way it needs to," City Commissioner Mike Amyx said.
He said that means it could be in a public building, like a downtown library, or in a private business.
Talk of moving the library off its site on the northwest corner of Seventh and Vermont streets has been growing because the post office property is seen as a prime location for new downtown development. The site overlooks Watson Park, and already has been proposed by members of the Fritzel family - local developers - as a good location for a new downtown library. The library board also has endorsed the site.
As part of that library proposal, the Fritzels also had proposed adding significant amounts of retail, residential and office space to Vermont Street in an effort to make downtown more of a destination.
"I see this as an opportunity to have more space to work with in downtown," Commissioner Mike Dever said.
Boog Highberger was the lone commissioner who opposed sending the new letter. He said he thought the new letter was urging the post office to move out of downtown, where the first letter simply said the City Commission wouldn't object to a move.
"I think it changes the tone and position of the commission," Highberger said.
Members of the Fritzel family did not speak at Tuesday's City Commission meeting, and attempts to reach Lawrence Postmaster Judy Raney were unsuccessful.
Comments
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Informed (anonymous) says…
Still all this talk of a new library...
I thought the city was in a budget crisis?
MacHeath (anonymous) says…
The commisioners are in Fritzel's back pocket, and they put us in with them.
This will also cost a lot of Federal dollars...
merrill (anonymous) says…
* The library should remain a quiet totally public facility not a library/retail space combination as the Fritzell plan calls for.
* This is the Fritzell plan presented about 18-24 months ago...same deal.
* THe Fritzell Group want taxpayers to foot the bill for a downtown convention center attached somehow to the Eldrige Hotel. They think it is unfair for the public to believe private money should foot the bill because other cities allow tax dollars to fund Convention Centers. In a meeting about ten days ago all agreed Convention Centers rarely make money.
* Fritzell Group buys the post office then trades that space for the current library building.
* There is no study provided as yet that determines the Convention Center would indeed pay for itself or that Lawrence would be anymore of a convention destination than it is today. Again kcmo/joco and Topeka would be tough competitors for these dollars. Let's be real. Should a small town be competeing with larger cities and metropolitan giants?
* There is no study provided that proves more new retail space will work considering Placemakers advised Lawrence leaders that Lawrence is 30% over retailed and Bauer Farms
has requested 10,000 more square feet in spite of that advisory. Vacant space is an expense to taxpayers. Do I want more focus on the downtown business district...absolutely. It's the helter skelter planning theory( no continuity) that likely keeps Lawrence in the tax dollar problem. Lawrence is a small town and cannot absorb every square foot of retail constructed.
* Do I have a problem with more library space? No! A $ 30 million dollar space knowing $10 million is for public parking to help accomodate the new retail project....this is a problem.
* Do I have a problem using the library as a pawn? absolutely!
* When the new library plan initially surfaced in the LJW the cost was at $17 million if my memory serves me well.
* What about other library sites that were proposed? Are they dead on arrival? Who made that decison and when?
Sigmund (anonymous) says…
You have got to be kidding me. And they expect us to believe there is a budget crisis and they can't fix the roads without a tax increase? Unbelievable.
News_to_me (anonymous) says…
What's the use of moving the Post Office if the library is voted down? There is no money for a new library right now! Just can't seem to get that through their thick heads. Unless, of course, the Fritzels turn into philanthropists and build one for us.
merrill (anonymous) says…
Is this Baur Farms?
http://www.newurbanism.org/
merrill (anonymous) says…
The Fritzells want a library built with public private funding aka a library built above retail operations or something similar. Thus the comments as to whether or not the sales tax can completely fund a library. This may be where that conversation is going.
Sales tax survey:
http://www2.ljworld.com/polls/2007/au...
Fritzell architecture is fine with me. Will the plans work is the question? More speculation than substance it seems to me...
just_another_bozo_on_this_bus (anonymous) says…
"Members of the Fritzel family did not speak at Tuesday's City Commission meeting,"
They didn't need to. Check the contribution lists for the last two city election cycles, and you will see that they already spoke, loud and clear.
News_to_me (anonymous) says…
The Library Board needs to start a fund raising campaign. They could start by cutting down on those ads for a new library on KLWN. But Nalbandian doesn't think it is appropriate to use Library Board funds to build a library. And I don't think it's appropriate to use other people's money.
monkeyhawk (anonymous) says…
Let's pretend that the post office agrees to move and the Fritzels acquire their desired location(s). Then, the sales tax issue is put to the voters and it is soundly defeated. What might happen then? Will the downtown redevelopers have to finance their dreams alone?
I think the sky is falling, but I agree almost wholeheartedly with merrill. If some on the cc are dismayed by the deep divisions in our community, their will be nothing like an old fashioned tea party to unite us.
merrill (anonymous) says…
The creation of our bedroom community has created a Jayhawk money hole.... And the wrong decisions continue due to the points just_another_bozo_on_this_bus statement made. Bozo is right on the money.
Yabut (anonymous) says…
Bullies (except Boog)!!!!
I'm pretty sure that if the post office wanted to move (initiated it), having the city commies seal of approval would be a real low priority. Who do the city commies think they are? They do a poor job of running the city, yet they think they can tell another organization how to run their business?
Really, city commies, I would have "no problem", absolutely no objection whatsoever, if you all decided to resign. Really. In fact, if you were to resign right now, think of all the free time you'd have with your families. And with the holidays soon approaching, I'm sure this would be time well spent. And besides, if you resigned now, you wouldn't have to put up with all the crap from citizens. You could devote more time to your "real" jobs and hobbies. Or you could get a second job and earn more money. The possibiliites are endless.
Maybe the city commies have everyone at city hall so scared for their jobs that they're afraid to speak up and say how bad this makes them look. I sure would think twice if I were thinking about brining business to Lawrence.
Hey LJW, how about getting a hold of the letter and posting a link?
lunacydetector (anonymous) says…
i don't see what the gripe is about....if they get the post office and trade it for the library, they'll get 3/4's of a block and the city will get 1/2 a block.
frankly, the post office is a pain in the rear end to get too downtown. they need to move it to west lawrence (so all the east lawrencians can feel the west lawrencians pain of inconvenience for once) and replace it with a UPS store.
KsTwister (anonymous) says…
Lawrence needs a good Boards and Commissions audit.
sourpuss (anonymous) says…
"pain of inconvenience" - a little early for the crack, lunacydetector!!
There IS a post office on the West side. You all also happen to have most of the grocery stores. You have BOTH the Wal-Marts. Spare me.
Godot (anonymous) says…
The Fritzels should build the library for free in return for all the favors they have been granted, and all the money they have made in Lawrence.
There was a quick mention by Mayor Hack in an article last week about "behind the scenes discussions."
I think this commission needs to be investigated for violation of the open meetings statute.
sunshine_noise (anonymous) says…
So they contract someone to handle the retail part of postal services and PO boxes. That will mean more cost to the consumer. Afterall they have to make their money also. I say leave the Post Office where it is and just build an Annex to the Library at 9th & New Hamphire next to the Lawrence Art Center. That space needs something there anyway.
Confrontation (anonymous) says…
It won't be long before there's a $4 per adult and $3 per child charge to get into the library.
Crossfire (anonymous) says…
Do you remember Urban Renewal and what it did for JoCo in the 70's.
Can we see Vermont Street turning into The Corporate Woods of Douglas County?
The library funded by the developer will be the bribe.
Turning everything west of Mass. Street into JoCo will be the payoff to the Fritzel family.
Lets just Hack a big lunger on downtown.
happyp (anonymous) says…
The city commission needs to be thinking of the entire city of Lawrence, not just the Fritzels.
hubcap (anonymous) says…
When in the course of human events...
average (anonymous) says…
If you're in very westernmost Lawrence and are just going downtown to send packages, the Lecompton post office is easier to get to (8:30 to 11:30 and 1:30 to 4:30 only). Free parking and far faster than the obnoxious staff at downtown Lawrence.
I hate the clerk who is talking about grandkids with one customer while 18 people are in a line out the door.
dogbait (anonymous) says…
"Members of the Fritzel family did not speak at Tuesday's City Commission meeting, and attempts to reach Lawrence Postmaster Judy Raney were unsuccessful"
That statement does speak for itself! Also, isn't it a bit ironic to have this story in the paper at the same time the story on poverty in Lawrence? Sounds like it is another "done deal".
Godot (anonymous) says…
max1, that was my analysis of the situation last fall, as well. This is a boondoggle.
merrill (anonymous) says…
"remember you heard it from the 'hawk' sometime ago, it is a comin' that a governmental agency would rent space at Hobbs Taylor and bail out Harris' mortgage."
Last Call may keep new activity or homeowners thinking about other locations. Can Last Call be generating that much revenue or are taxpayers and Bo Harris losing each day it is open?
merrill (anonymous) says…
Real Estate News:
http://finance.move.com/homefinance/r...
countryman1 (anonymous) says…
I have said it before, and I will say it again. We, the citizens have no say so. It is obvious that the City Commissioners have shown us that they are going to do what they want. They are trying to push the Post Office into the private sector. Run off the postal employees. Build a new library, And yes, find a way to raise our taxes, one way or the other. I post on here just to vent frustration. I know that the CC could give a hoot what I say or anyone else. I sure wish I could fill my hip pockets with some cash, but I would do it honestly or do without. This city is waisting so much of our hard earned money, and looking to dig even deeper for more. I feel sorry for the elderly, and retired of our community. What a sad situation.
coneflower (anonymous) says…
There is nothing wrong with the post office or its location!
Why don't these commissioners leave things alone when they are just fine as they are?
I think we all know the answers.
KsTwister (anonymous) says…
Post Offices cannot be made to move for any reason by any city unless they chose to do so. Eminent domain laws will not hold up against them. This may be a good thing.