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Archive for Monday, April 9, 2007

Baby found in garbage bag; sisters arrested

April 9, 2007

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— A recently born infant girl was found in a garbage bag on a back porch in a Brooklyn neighborhood, and the apparent mother and her two sisters were arrested, police said.

The baby was pronounced dead at a local hospital of asphyxiation and hypothermia, police said. The infant had been born alive, said Ellen Borakove, a spokeswoman for the city medical examiner's office.

Laura Sergio, 25, who is believed to be the mother, was arrested Saturday and charged her with murder, police said.

Sergio's sister, 27-year-old Andria, was arrested on a charge of improper disposal of a human body. Another sister, Cara, 29, was arrested on a charge of obstructing governmental administration.

Laura Sergio was taken to a hospital with a medical problem around 9 p.m. Friday, and a doctor called authorities to say she might have given birth, according to police.

Officers were directed to a Brooklyn home, where they found the infant unconscious around 3:30 a.m. Saturday.

Authorities said Laura Sergio was still hospitalized Saturday.

Comments

Your_Mom 7 years ago

That was the dumbest post I've read in the past two months. According to the idiot agnazi man is lucky to have survived at all and all wisdom begins in 1965 and later. To quote a TV icon from "That 70s Show" Red Forman,

You're a Dumbass

0

Agnostick 7 years ago

Hhhhhmmmmmmmmmmmm...

http://www.cnn.com/2007/EDUCATION/04/13/abstinence.study.ap/index.html

Well, kids, I'm at a loss.

What now?

Tie the knees together?

Weld the zippers shut?

No doubt some crackpot will mosey along shouldering the excuse, "Well, all the kids that responded to the survey were the offspring of Bush-hating far-left, secular-progressive unmarried terrorist-loving parents. They didn't survey any of the good children of red-white-&-blue All-American Christian parents for this."

Agnostick agnostick@excite.com http://www.uscentrist.org

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Agnostick 7 years ago

More fascist conservative extremists will spend time parading around with bloody fetus pieces than will work towards logical ways of reducing unwanted pregnancies (and consequentially, reducing abortions).

Agnostick agnostick@excite.com http://www.uscentrist.org

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Poshloster 7 years ago

A mere 10 hours before the baby was born evil ole Doc Tiller would have fixed the 'problem' lickity split, secret, no questions asked. Just leave payment at the front desk. Tiller the killer. You want outrage, club a baby seal. More bleeding heart liberals will expend resources on saving baby seals than they'll commit resources to saving a human baby.

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gr 7 years ago

"This is what happens when you make getting an abortion more difficult." NO!!! This is what happens when people have no love. There are a hundred ways to "get rid" of a baby that DO NOT involve CONSPIRING with your family to FREEZE the baby to DEATH!!

Yeah, using an icepick or suck out the brains!

'Procedure'

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trinity 7 years ago

Your_Mom-

are you here to play devil's advocate? i cannot think of another purpose for you-other than being a glaring display of an idiot posting on a message board.

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Your_Mom 7 years ago

I'll ask you again, why do you talk to Your_Mom that way?

Agnostick, Did you get a little upset? Darling, you need to go to bed earlier. Try stepping away from the computer for a few minutes. You're obsessed and it isn't healthy. Don't make me get Your_Dad to ground you from the basement.

Crispian, Shame on you.

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Linda Endicott 7 years ago

You knew what Crispian meant, mom...stop being insulting.

And you're not MY mom. My mother would have washed your mouth out for insinuating such things.

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Agnostick 7 years ago

"I wonder, do you save baby parts too?"


Oh please, "mom"... WTF is this, your "shock and awe" campaign? Please... go to the Clearance Aisle at Wal-Mart and see if "Talent" is available for $1/box. It'd give you something to work with.

I've seen & heard it all... believe me.

And if Crispian does save the baby parts, why would you care? Looking to make a purchase? Having a "Bloody Mary" party sometime soon?

Agnostick agnostick@excite.com http://www.uscentrist.org

0

Your_Mom 7 years ago

Posted by Crispian (Crispian Paul) on April 9, 2007 at 5:07 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I work in a field devoted exclusively to preserving children and families.

+++++++++++++++++==

You sound like a mortician. You immerse yourself in death and it would seem the only preserving you do is probably preparing your beloved dead for burial. I wonder, do you save baby parts too?

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Crispian Paul 7 years ago

Posted by Your_Mom (anonymous) on April 9, 2007 at 6:34 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Posted by Crispian (Crispian Paul) on April 9, 2007 at 5:07 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I suppose the argument that I am "pro-abortion" will probably be mentioned. However, I work in a field devoted exclusively to preserving children and families.

=================

Formaldehyde is your chemical of choice?

What???

0

Agnostick 7 years ago

"Either way you try to look at it, this baby was not wanted. And it would have been much more humane to either use birth control to keep the pregnancy from happening in the first place, or to have an abortion early to keep the pregnancy from progressing."


Correctamundo!

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OZ 7 years ago

Posted by Marion (Marion Lynn the Closet X-tian) on April 9, 2007 at 6:44 p.m. (Suggest removal)

And MERRILL, who is ONLY capable of copy-and-paste and NOT CAPABLE or ORIGINAL THOUGHT resorts to the LAST BATION OF THE PSEUDO-LIBERAL/NEO-SOCIALIST!

Tha Ad Hominem attack!

Merrill the Lawnboy wrote:

"Posted by merrill (anonymous) on April 9, 2007 at 5:06 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Marion I am beginning to believe you've never had sex with anyone?"

Marion writes:

Merrill, kiss my Heinie a++!

+++

For a Closet X-tian, you're certainly a rabid little hypocrite.

Praise CHEESES ! ! !

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Linda Endicott 7 years ago

Perhaps I should have phrased it as "this is what happens when you make getting birth control and abortion more difficult".

Okay, the girl is 25, and should be old enough to know much better. But a lot of you probably have kids who still don't show a whole lot of common sense even though they're 18 or over. 18 is not some magic number. Just because someone reaches the age of 18 doesn't automatically make them an adult, in my opinion. Most 18-year-olds I know certainly don't behave like adults.

Because chronologically they might be 25, but psychologically, they may be operating like a 15-year-old.

Like all those 25-year-old "men" out there who still think it's funny to get a girl drunk and then have their way with them. Yeah, a really adult thing to do.

Is the girl crazy? Maybe. Who in their right mind would do such a thing to a newborn baby? In the legal sense? Probably not.

I think we're talking about someone operating on the mentality of a teenager. We've all been teenagers. We know that teenagers get scared, and they panic, and then they don't know what to do, so they usually just take the Scarlet O'Hara approach and decide, "I'll think about it tomorrow."

Either way you try to look at it, this baby was not wanted. And it would have been much more humane to either use birth control to keep the pregnancy from happening in the first place, or to have an abortion early to keep the pregnancy from progressing.

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Marion Lynn 7 years ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

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Your_Mom 7 years ago

Posted by Crispian (Crispian Paul) on April 9, 2007 at 5:07 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I suppose the argument that I am "pro-abortion" will probably be mentioned. However, I work in a field devoted exclusively to preserving children and families.

=================

Formaldehyde is your chemical of choice?

0

yourworstnightmare 7 years ago

This thread just illustrates the moral bankruptcy of the anti-choice right. Everything to them is about abortion. A horrible act of criminal misbehavior suddenly becomes about abortion.

Hey, I heard Julian Wright is entering the NBA draft. He is throwing away his college career just like those who have abortions throw away their fetuses.

Legal abortion has created an atmosphere that made Mr. Wright think it was OK to leave college early. When will this scourge be outlawed?

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Confrontation 7 years ago

The same people screaming about abortions are the same people who scream about welfare payments. You can't cut back on abortion without forking over more money in taxes to help pay for the children. On other posts, you'll post that you aren't willing to pay more money to support lazy parents with too many children. You yell about the crime rate of juvenille deliquents, yet there aren't enough families opening their doors to unwanted children. Hypocrites. You want to stand on your moral highhorse (joke) and demand that others follow your beliefs. Yet, you aren't willing to accept what would happen if we listened to your crap.

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karmaxs3 7 years ago

No difference between a fetus and an infant? Um, well, technically and scientifically, yes there is.

A fetus cannot live outside the mother's womb. Therefore, it is like a parasite with the potential for independent life. I know this because I have such a parasite within me at the moment. If I were to give "birth" right now, (with or without the assisstance of a doctor) it could not survive, therefore, it would be a dead fetus, and not an infant.

An infant can survive outside the mother's womb, breathing air through fully developed lungs and deriving nutrients from food sources and not from an intravenous blood infusion via the umbilical cord. I look forward to this day for my infant.

It is no one on this board's right to tell me how to treat my body during pregnancy, just as it is not my right to tell any of you what to do with your bodies. Personally, I have chosen to nourish this fetus, give birth to a (hopefully) fully developed infant, and raise it with my husband.

I pray I can love and educate this child to respect the rights and opinions of others.

What I find the most ironic is that so many people who are "pro-life" are the same people who are "pro-war".

Interesting.

It's too bad that a demented 27 year old woman in NYC and her crazy sisters chose to do something like they did when there are so many other options available. But then, I'm sure it would have been better for that child to have lived and been raised in that environment, don't you agree?

Que sera, sera...

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OZ 7 years ago

Posted by merrill (anonymous) on April 9, 2007 at 5:06 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Marion I am beginning to believe you've never had sex with anyone?

+++

There are several goats missing.

Praise CHEESES ! ! !

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Crispian Paul 7 years ago

Or if I and anyone who believes like I do are sick, twisted animals, I guess I should say woof, meow.

I suppose the argument that I am "pro-abortion" will probably be mentioned. However, I work in a field devoted exclusively to preserving children and families.

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Richard Heckler 7 years ago

Marion I am beginning to believe you've never had sex with anyone?

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jonas 7 years ago

"A society can be judged by how it treats it's weakest members. I wonder how we will be judged."

There are many, many ways in which one can judge a society. Undoubtedly some methods would provide for differing scores.

By the way: Finding one baby in 10 trash bags.

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Crispian Paul 7 years ago

Posted by Poshloster (anonymous) on April 9, 2007 at 4:04 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Crispian, Many of the Nazi party officials, Commandants, guards, doctors and such were gentle family men involved in their communities. They should have been given a pass under your system of values. Of course, they were following the laws of their state as is Tiller.

OK, there are so many things wrong with this I don't know where to begin.

First, isn't it usually Neo-cons on this website that complain about liberals using "nazi" or "Hitler" comparisons?

Second, the people killed in the Holocaust were sustainable, already born, human beings.

Third, this was not law, but rather policy. There is a difference. (E.g. the Bush administration has a policy of hiring like-minded individuals for advising positions, but this is not the law.)

Brush up on you science and history folks and then try and tell me what makes "fetus" and infant the same. Secondly, why don't you address that even though Tiller is a "criminal" in your mind, is it OK for him to be shot while going to work.

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OZ 7 years ago

Posted by b3 (anonymous) on April 9, 2007 at 3:19 p.m. (Suggest removal)

fetus, infant, no difference. if you believe there is you are a sick twisted animal.

+++

Because "believing" as YOU do is the ONLY way to believe, RIGHT?

Praise CHEESES ! ! !

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Crispian Paul 7 years ago

Posted by b3 (anonymous) on April 9, 2007 at 3:19 p.m. (Suggest removal)

fetus, infant, no difference. if you believe there is you are a sick twisted animal.

Technically there is a BIG difference in terms of viablity and sustainability. And if you think that is wrong, take it up with scientists. And, BTW, woof.

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OZ 7 years ago

Posted by Poshloster (anonymous) on April 9, 2007 at 1:36 p.m. (Suggest LONG-TERM, INTENSIVE THERAPY)

Tiller isn't a violent extremist?

Ok. Kill on person, you're a murderer, kill a million and you're a hero of the left.

+++

LOL

Your delusions are increasing in frequency and intensity.

You're either "thinking" of the X-TIAN CRUSADES, the X-TIAN SPANISH INQUISITION, or the X-TIAN HOLOCAUST, yes, HITLER was a X-TIAN, and probably A LOT like you.

"I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so." --Adolf Hitler, to Gen. Gerhard Engel, 1941

"Hitler's war is a noble undertaking in defense of European culture." --Cardinal Baudrillart, July 30, 1941

"I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord." --Adolf Hitler

SIEG HEIL, Poshloster and to your buddy, the LOSER Herr Kline!

"Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of christianity, have been burnt,tortured, fined, imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make half the world fools, and the other half hypocrites." --President Thomas Jefferson

Praise CHEESES ! ! !

Ps.

Republican X-TIAN, anti-abortion activist Nicholas Morency pleaded guilty to possessing child pornography on his computer and offering a bounty to anybody who murders an abortion doctor.

Is Morency a buddy of yours or is sharing that hypocritical mentality enough?

By the way, the RIGHT WING IDIOT DUBYA has MURDERED 3,282 American Soldiers for his LIES and over 600,000 INNOCENT Iraqi men, women and CHILDREN, you little hypocrite.

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Agnostick 7 years ago

"You are speaking on an issue of morality, which is derived from religion. The state has no business getting involved in religion. Let parents do this, or not do it as they wish. They can then choose the abstinence method, or the be safe method, or whatever they want. This would have the effect of not confusing kids (folks say abstinence, school says it's OK)."


There are many reasons for encouraging abstinence... most of them related to unintended pregnancies, and the impact that has on the biological parents.

What if.... and, granted, this is a BIG "IF"... LOL...

but...

what if...

teachers...

and parents...

talk to...

each other...??????

Radical concept, I know... but just think about it...

Agnostick agnostick@excite.com http://www.uscentrist.org

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Poshloster 7 years ago

Crispian, Many of the Nazi party officials, Commandants, guards, doctors and such were gentle family men involved in their communities. They should have been given a pass under your system of values. Of course, they were following the laws of their state as is Tiller.

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b3 7 years ago

fetus, infant, no difference. if you believe there is you are a sick twisted animal.

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Crispian Paul 7 years ago

OK, he was shot twice, once in each arm. However, I do recall there being more than one shooting attempt.

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Crispian Paul 7 years ago

Poshloster, Here ya go. This article not only references the shooting of Dr. Tiller, but the continued harrassment he has recieved, which had, in part, been responsible for even John Ashcroft ordering that Dr. Tiller be guarded by US Marshalls.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?sec=health&res=9A03E0DF153BF930A25754C0A9679C8B63&n=Top%2fReference%2fTimes%20Topics%2fSubjects%2fA%2fAbortion

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Crispian Paul 7 years ago

Posted by Poshloster (anonymous) on April 9, 2007 at 11:22 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Wonder how many infants Tiller has had to put in a plastic bag? Guess we'll find out when the AG is forced by 'the people' to investigate.

Having lived right down the street from George Tiller for most of my young life, I think it's interesting that you all bring him up as if he is some crazy man running around forcing abortions on people. He provides a safe, legal procedure to those that need it. What I also find interesting is that the term "partial birth abortion" means nothing medically. It was a term developed by politicians to inject even emotional appeals into this issue.

Finally, I find it very strange that no one here mentions a few things about the people who performed "Operation Rescue" in Wichita in the 90's....members of this "organization" were responsible for multiple attempts on Tiller's life, a fire bomb at his office and culminating in him being shot eitrher four or five times when I was in high school. That is valuing human life? Not only that, the people tied to the OKC bombing were also members of Operation Rescue.....They sure cared about all those innocent LIVE, VIABLE children that died huh?

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mom_of_three 7 years ago

It's hard to tell from names what religion the mother is from, but is it possible that she is catholic and her religion forbids abortions. But she can't keep the child. So in a panic, instead of dropping the baby off at a hospital or firestation, the women do whatever is needed to get rid of the baby. Maybe the safe baby act isn't in effect in New York. This proves the need for it. It's a sad story, but happens all the time. Don't forget about the three babies abandoned in California with the same mother.

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Crispian Paul 7 years ago

Posted by b3 (anonymous) on April 9, 2007 at 9:32 a.m. (Suggest removal)

there is no difference between this and abortion. these women appearently suffer from the same mental illness that many others in our society suffer from - the desire to slaughter infant humans. sick.

Hello, a fetus is different than an infant. Period!

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Crispian Paul 7 years ago

Sorry, ya'll, but there is a HUGE difference between having a LEGAL medical procedure on a fetus that would NOT be viable out of the womb and leaving a LIVE infant in the cold to die.

And Poshloser, you are very often rude and hateful as well.....see Bachelor thread where you referred to all people in Lawrence in an extremely negative fashion.

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Poshloster 7 years ago

drewdun, Don't know you but you seem compelled to divert the discussion. Agnostick and I were discussing abortion and in a somewhat civil manner. Why don't you just read along. And I only posted on a couple of threads and I am critical of the right as well. From where I'm typing, you are the hatefilled poster attacking a thread. What have you to add to the discussion that is civil and informative?

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imastinker 7 years ago

Agnostick - this is a matter that the state shouldn't be in at all. That's why parents get riled up when people start talking about it.

You are speaking on an issue of morality, which is derived from religion. The state has no business getting involved in religion. Let parents do this, or not do it as they wish. They can then choose the abstinence method, or the be safe method, or whatever they want. This would have the effect of not confusing kids (folks say abstinence, school says it's OK).

Regardless, alternatives to abortion are irrelavent to the current topic of conversation. It was about abortion, and the alternatives to abortion are another topic entirely.

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drewdun 7 years ago

"Ok. Kill on person, you're a murderer, kill a million and you're a hero of the left."

Yeah, I've got a life-size Tiller poster in my bedroom.

Seriously though, is there any topic posted on this website that you won't try to turn into an excuse to spew hatred at liberals or those on the left?

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Agnostick 7 years ago

Good point, imastinker... many of these things are available right now.

So, why aren't we employing them?

"Fear," "stigma," and "superstition" come to mind. ;)

Current abstinence programs may have helped lower the teen pregnancy rates, but the (in)famous Columbia/Guttmacher study found that abstinence-only programs were also spiking STD rates for that same age group.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A48509-2005Mar18.html

And now... the states are jumping that particular ship...

http://www.registerguard.com/news/2007/04/09/a1.sexedfunds.0409.p1.php?section=nation_world

http://www.kansascity.com/136/story/63944.html

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-abstinence8apr08,1,7478396.story?coll=la-headlines-nation&track=crosspromo

Even when we do make education available... you can count on conservative extremists to throw up roadblocks in front of those that need it the most:

Martin goes before the voters next year; I will be working hard to BOOT HER OUT!

Agnostick agnostick@excite.com http://www.uscentrist.org

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Poshloster 7 years ago

Tiller isn't a violent extremist?

Ok. Kill on person, you're a murderer, kill a million and you're a hero of the left.

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imastinker 7 years ago

Agnostick, those three things are readily available now.

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Agnostick 7 years ago

Tiller is not a violent extremist; rather, he is an abortion provider that can easily be driven out of business by peacefully, carefully, logically working to evaporate his "customer base."

As for you conceding that there are some violent extremists in the pro-life movement... you don't really need to, do you? The police records and court cases speak for themselves.

It'd be like you offering to concede that on a clear, cloudless day, the sky is blue. Who needs you (or anyone else) to "concede" that when everyone can just walk outside and see it for themselves? :)

I'll explain it one more time... using small words that extremists can easily understand (read it one or two sections at a time, take frequent breaks if it helps your comprehension):

Would you like to reduce abortions?

The #1 cause of abortion is the "unwanted pregnancy."

By reducing unwanted pregnancies, you will naturally and easily reduce the number of abortions.

Reducing unwanted pregnancies can be achieved by:

1) Promoting abstinence to our young people (use the "secular" angle in public schools; use the "sacred" angle in private homes, private schools, and places of worship)

2) Make birth control inexpensive and readily available for those who decide to forego abstinence, even if it's only once. (BONUS: Condoms not only lower the risk of pregnancy, they also lower the risk of sexually-transmitted diseases, like AIDS, and therefore could reduce health care costs at the national level!)

3) Make "emergency birth control" and abortifacients available, either via prescription or OTC sales. If a woman can disrupt or end an early pregnancy in the privacy of her own home, she won't need to visit a clinic (like Tiller's) and pay them money.

These three tactics will greatly reduce the number of women going into abortion clinics and PAYING MONEY, a critical point because people like Tiller are, first and foremost, SMALL BUSINESS OWNERS.

Without MONEY, they can't AFFORD to stay in business. THEY WILL SHUT DOWN.

Hope that wasn't too difficult! :)

Agnostick agnostick@excite.com http://www.uscentrist.org

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OZ 7 years ago

Posted by Poshloster (anonymous) on April 9, 2007 at 12:52 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I'll concede that there are some extremists that are violent if you concede that Tiller is a violent extremist.

Logically speaking, applying your criteria.

Simmer down now!

+++

Take your meds. X-TIAN.

Praise CHEESES ! ! !

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OZ 7 years ago

Republican X-TIAN, anti-abortion activist Nicholas Morency pleaded guilty to possessing child pornography on his computer and offering a bounty to anybody who murders an abortion doctor.

Yes, you X-TIAN HYPOCRITES are so X-TIAN.

Praise CHEESES ! ! !

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Emily Hadley 7 years ago

It is perhaps an education issue.

There are safe surrender locations in virtually every neighborhood, but it is difficult to find a socially acceptable way to reach out to and effectively inform the public about this option. Surrendering one's child anonymously is a very brave yet very stigmatized decision for a mother to make.

Many mothers, around the world and throughout time, have faced and will face pregnancy while living in extremely difficult circumstances, and they may make decisions based on fear. In addition to education, women also get pregnant regardless of their intelligence, ability to provide necessities, mental health, and even their consent to having sex. This creates a spectrum of possible problems later. It is very sad.

If you are raising children, you can help by raising your girls to be strong and confident and your boys to be respectful and proud, so that they will be able to avoid such crises and help those around them.

If you are outraged or saddened by this, perhaps you can volunteer in your area to help:

http://www.wtcskansas.org/volunteer.html

http://extension.missouri.edu/hdfs/mvrm.htm

http://extension.missouri.edu/hdfs/programs.htm

http://www.postpartum.net/kansas.html

http://www.kumc.edu/cop/agencies.html

http://community.lawrence.com/orgs/category/support

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Poshloster 7 years ago

I'll concede that there are some extremists that are violent if you concede that Tiller is a violent extremist.

Logically speaking, applying your criteria.

Simmer down now!

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OZ 7 years ago

Posted by Poshloster (anonymous) on April 9, 2007 at 12:34 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Tiller has been harassed? You specifically stated Tiller has been repeatedly harassed. This cites nothing. As for the right to peaceable assembly, that is hardly harassment. Again, prove that Tiller has specifically been harassed by extremists?

+++++++++++++++++++++

By definition, X-TIAN CULTISTS are EXTREMISTS

By the way, it should read; "This CITY'S" not as you wrote it, "This CITIES"
It makes you look "STOOPUD" punk'n. Were you home "SKEWELLED"?

Praise CHEESES ! ! !

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Agnostick 7 years ago

Split hairs all you want, Poshloster--but the records speak for themselves:

While there are certainly peaceful, law-abiding citizens involved in the "pro-life" movement, they have been overshadowed by the violent extremists.

Case closed.

Cool down and try to think this through logically. You might actually achieve something.

Agnostick agnostick@excite.com http://www.uscentrist.org

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Poshloster 7 years ago

Tiller has been harassed? You specifically stated Tiller has been repeatedly harassed. This cites nothing. As for the right to peaceable assembly, that is hardly harassment. Again, prove that Tiller has specifically been harassed by extremists?

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OZ 7 years ago

They were no doubt, X-TIAN HYPOCRITES.

Praise CHEESES ! ! !

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Agnostick 7 years ago

Attempted murder, assault, and threats

According to statistics gathered by the the National Abortion Federation (NAF), an organization of abortion providers, since 1977 in the United States and Canada, there have been 17 attempted murders, 383 death threats, 153 incidences of assault or battery, and 3 kidnappings committed against abortion providers.[6] The attempted murders were:[7][8][4]

* August 19, 1993: Dr. George Tiller was shot outside of an abortion facility in Wichita, Kansas. Shelly Shannon was charged with the crime and received an 11-year prison sentence.
* June 29, 1994: June Barret was shot in the same attack which claimed the lives of James Barrett, her husband, and Dr. John Britton.
* December 30, 1994: Five individuals were wounded in the same-day shootings which killed Shannon Lowney and Lee Ann Nichols.
* December 18, 1996: Dr. Calvin Jackson of New Orleans, Louisiana was stabbed 15 times, losing 4 pints of blood. Donald Cooper was charged with second-degree attempted murder and sentenced to 20 years.[9]
* October 28, 1997: A physician whose name has not been revealed was shot in his home in Rochester, New York.
* January 29, 1998: Emily Lyons, a nurse, was severely injured in the bombing which also killed Robert Sanderson.

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Agnostick 7 years ago

The letter arrived on a Tuesday in march. "Dear Sara," it read. "It is our information that you are currently an employee of Women's Health Care Services, a facility that provides abortions." It went on to suggest that Sara Phares, an administrative assistant at the clinic in Wichita, Kansas, quit her job and repent her sins. "Please know that we are praying for you," the letter concluded. It was signed "Troy Newman, President, Operation Rescue West." A week later, hundreds of Phares' neighbors received an anonymous postcard of a mangled fetus. This is abortion! read the big block letters. "Your neighbor Sara Phares participates in killing babies like these." The postcard implored them to call Phares, whose phone number and address were provided, and voice their opposition to her work at the clinic. Another card soon followed. It referred to Phares as "Miss I Help to Kill Little Babies" and suggested, in an erratic typeface that recalled a kidnapper's ransom note, that neighbors "beg her to quit, pretty please." The third postcard dispensed entirely with pleasantries: "Sara Phares is not to be trusted! Tell her to get a life!"

One Wichita resident, apparently inspired by the postcards, sent Phares letters beseeching her to quit her job at the clinic. Another neighbor, a federal agent, called her at work to express his concern. "Just be careful, ma'am," he said. "You never know what kind of nuts these things will draw."

"Before long, protesters from Operation Rescue showed up at her house. They parked a tractor-trailer across the street, plastered with twenty-foot-long images of dismembered fetuses. From its speakers came the kind of sweet, tinkling music that lures children from their back yards in pursuit of Dreamsicles. One protester, a somber man in a tan windbreaker with a three-foot crucifix thrust before him, performed an exorcism on Phares' front lawn, sprinkling holy water on the grass to cast demons from the property. Phares, a small-boned woman with an irreverent sense of humor, joked about the exorcism. "Wish he'd held off on that holy water till after we'd put the fertilizer down," she said. But her husband wasn't amused. Since 1994, there have been five assassination attempts on abortion providers at their homes. A few days after the protest, Phares' husband got out his revolver, loaded it and taught Sara how to use it.


http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/6388324/one_mans_god_squad/

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Agnostick 7 years ago

"The Women's Health Care Services clinic and its presiding doctor are the subject of activism by members of the pro-life movement. In particular, Troy Newman and Operation Rescue have made it their goal to see the clinic closed.[3] Dr. Tiller has also been the target of anti-abortion violence. On August 19, 1993, he was shot in both arms outside of the Wichita clinic by Rachelle Shannon of Grants Pass, Oregon, who received an 11-year prison sentence for the crime.[1][4][5]"

"The doctor who runs the clinic had been wounded, though not seriously, by a gun-wielding woman as he left the clinic. Across town in the Sedgwick County Jail, his alleged assailant -- Rachelle Shannon, 37, of Grants Pass, Ore. -- was being held without bail on attempted first-degree murder charges."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/national/longterm/abortviolence/stories/tiller3.htm

[more]

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OldEnuf2BYurDad 7 years ago

A society can be judged by how it treats it's weakest members. I wonder how we will be judged.

I can't believe I live in a world where such discussions even take place. "This is what happens when you make getting an abortion more difficult." NO!!! This is what happens when people have no love. There are a hundred ways to "get rid" of a baby that DO NOT involve CONSPIRING with your family to FREEZE the baby to DEATH!!

THERE IS ONLY ONE RESPONSE TO THIS: we live in a sick world when ANYONE would freeze a child to death (let alone YOUR OWN BABY). The horror of the event is only compounded by the fact that others HELPED her do it.

It's amazing to me that some will still argue that mankind doesn't need a redeemer.

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Poshloster 7 years ago

agnostick, "And exactly how is that "force" going to come about, Poshloster?"

You wanted an answer I gave it to you. Apparently you're an elitist and above the will of the people. Tiller is harassed? I haven't seen a police report or conviction. How do you know Tiller is being harassed? Are you assuming? I want to see some evidence of harassment from "extremists" and I want you to prove your statement.

You wanted to know about how we can 'force' Tillers investigation. Now you pony up and prove harassment by extremists.

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Kat Christian 7 years ago

This is sad. Somehow the parents and schools are not educating these young people to value life. I truly feel that every high school student be required to take a parenting class and life skills class as well. Our kids are growing up not having any respect for life, authority of any kind or even respect for themselves. TV shows & video games aren't helping either. So many parents use TV as an in home babysitter so they won't have to interact with their children. We need to change this NOW and the best way to get them while they are still young and in school. Abortion isn't so much the issue here folks. We need to get a grip on this ASAP or our futures are doomed.

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Agnostick 7 years ago

And if the investigation comes up empty...????

See, Poshloster, that's the problem with extremism: It's naturally devoid of critical thinking or logic.

If you consider Tiller to be a criminal, why don't you and your fellow extremists think like a criminal?

Think of all that the extremists have put Tiller through over the years: the threats, the intimidation, the violence. Geez, one of your crackpots tried to shoot Tiller's arms off one time. Don't you think that made Tiller a little bit angry? Don't you think that made Tiller a little bit more determined?

Don't you think all this violent intimidation has made Tiller considerably more careful?

Granted, there's also the chance that all these "narrow escapes" have made Tiller arrogant and careless, too. And who can blame him? Look at how Kline bungled the case in '04!

This idea of "forcing" Morrison to investigate... do you think the same tactic would work for other crime-fighting endeavors?

Suppose you want to take out the biggest drug dealer in town? Do you use stealth, cunning, planning, and then sneak up and get him when he least expects it? Or do you stand outside his house with a bullhorn and bright lights, waving a flag and a crucifix and scream "HEY! DRUG DEALER! WE KNOW YOU'RE IN THERE! LISTEN, WE'RE GOING TO BE COMING BY HERE TO ARREST YOU AND SEARCH YOUR HOUSE THREE WEEKS FROM SATURDAY! WE'RE ALSO SENDING YOU AN ENGRAVED INVITATION IN THE MAIL! FOR MORE DETAILS, KEEP WATCHING THE TV AND READING THE NEWSPAPERS, BECAUSE WE'RE LAYING OUT ALL OUR TACTICS FOR YOU AND EVERYONE ELSE TO SEE!"

Yeah yeah yeah... okay...

There's a slim chance this thing'll pass through the legislature. And there's a slim chance that Morrison will investigate. And there's a slim chance the investigation will actually turn up something...

Thanks for the laughs, Poshloster! The "Keystone Cops" are probably a crack investigative force compared to what extremist activists and legislators are trying to pull off! :)))

Agnostick agnostick@excite.com http://www.uscentrist.org

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Poshloster 7 years ago

Our representatives in the state legislature can "FORCE" the AG to investigate or they can appoint an independent investigation.

DOOH!

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Agnostick 7 years ago

And exactly how is that "force" going to come about, Poshloster?

Will "your people" (as opposed to "THE people") also be manufacturing the evidence?

Holding the trial?

Judging the trial?

Serving on the jury?

Performing the execution?

Agnostick agnostick@excite.com http://www.uscentrist.org

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Poshloster 7 years ago

Wonder how many infants Tiller has had to put in a plastic bag? Guess we'll find out when the AG is forced by 'the people' to investigate.

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MyName 7 years ago

I think it's tacky and gross that you see this as different than abortion.

This really isn't about abortion, this is about a family of crazy people in NY. I know you probably can't see the difference because you're obsessed with the issue of abortion, but there is absolutely no reason to think that a bunch of crazy people would be any less crazy if they lived in a state where abortion was illegal. In fact, judging from some of the posts on this board, there's a decent chance they could be more crazy.

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yourworstnightmare 7 years ago

Damebudzo is correct.

No one would ever do this sort of thing if abortion was illegal (rolls eyes)...

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jonas 7 years ago

Oh yeah, and what's worse than finding 10 babies in one trash bag?

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jonas 7 years ago

hawklet: Never?! Well get caught up with the times! The black bag outdoor sleeper is the new vogue.

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hawklet21 7 years ago

Posted by sourpuss (anonymous) on April 9, 2007 at 9:14 a.m. (Suggest removal)

"...it is possible the death was an accident." I don't know about anyone else, but I've never put a baby down to sleep in a black trash bag on the back porch.

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Dambudzo 7 years ago

Posted by scenebooster (anonymous) on April 9, 2007 at 9:47 a.m. (Suggest removal)

"Maybe we need more drop off points in high abort areas. Slums and what not."

And there's all you need to know about wingers like this one.

They are the areas with the most problem. Denial is not an option.

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couranna1 7 years ago

I don't I go with the facts presented and draw a conclusion based on those facts maybe I should not have called you stupid but just your comment stupid

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Agnostick 7 years ago

Dambudzo, for an extremist crackpot, those points are actually halfway salient.

The extremists like to crow, "WHAT ABOUT ADOPTION? WHAT ABOUT ALL THESE POOR, POOR INFERTILE COUPLES LINING UP AROUND THE BLOCK TO ADOPT BABIES?"

Well, having been 50% of one of those "infertile couples" for 10 years, I can tell you this much:

We considered adoption at one point. My wife even went to see a lawyer, who told her (at that time) that in Kansas, something like 60-70% of adoptions "fall apart." They never make it to that magical moment when that "unwanted baby" is permanently put in the arms of the adoptive parents.

Meanwhile, the fertility clinic we were visiting was touting a 55-60% success rate for their IVF classes. (12 couples in each class, 6 classes each year)

I can also tell you that it's a lot easier--and cheaper--to get hold of things like Repronex, Clomid, and Folistem. There's a healthy "underground" market for this stuff: women buy a four-month supply, get pregnant after two months, and sell or auction off the rest online, often through an email listserv. As a last-ditch effort, if you know someone who'll be soon visiting Nuevo Laredo or another border town, you can easily get the stuff for pennies on the dollar and smuggle it back across.

So the big questions are:

1) What kinds of choices are all those infertile couples really making?

2) If they're not choosing to adopt... WHY??

At some point, we're all consumers... and consumers (the smart ones, at least) naturally gravitate towards the better deal.

Agnostick agnostick@excite.com http://www.uscentrist.org

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imastinker 7 years ago

couranna - the people that know me don't seem to think I'm stupid. The IQ tests that I've taken don't seem to lead one to that conclusion either.

Why do you think that just because you don't agree with someone that they are stupid?

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scenebooster 7 years ago

"Maybe we need more drop off points in high abort areas. Slums and what not."

And there's all you need to know about wingers like this one.

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Dambudzo 7 years ago

Posted by SettingTheRecordStraight (anonymous) on April 9, 2007 at 9:26 a.m. (Suggest removal)

"Visit." As in a visit to Disneyworld or the ice cream shoppe?

Maybe we need "Baby mobiles" Like "Book Mobiles" Women could drop off there babies with a clear conscience.

"Refuge." As in a hospital nursery or a day care center?

Maybe we need more drop off points in high abort areas. Slums and what not.

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scenebooster 7 years ago

So what's the better outcome? She aborts the baby early in the pregnancy, or becomes a murderer doing this?

Either way this is a tradgedy, and some of you on here are fairly despicable for turning it into your soapbox...

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b3 7 years ago

there is no difference between this and abortion. these women appearently suffer from the same mental illness that many others in our society suffer from - the desire to slaughter infant humans. sick.

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SettingTheRecordStraight 7 years ago

"If only we had federally funded abortion centers that people could visit."

"Visit." As in a visit to Disneyworld or the ice cream shoppe?

"A clean sanitary refuge..."

"Refuge." As in a hospital nursery or a day care center?

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Agnostick 7 years ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

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couranna1 7 years ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

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Agnostick 7 years ago

When you extremists are done gleefully skipping through your dead baby fetuses and singing your songs, perhaps you can look at this from a logical P.O.V....

unite2revolt comes close... manages to at least get the ball in the same state where the city is located that happens to have the "ballpark."

So, unite2revolt, you've made the proper link to an "unwanted pregnancy?"

What do you think the next step is? More unwanted pregnancies... or less?

How would you achieve either objective?

Agnostick agnostick@excite.com http://www.uscentrist.org

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sourpuss 7 years ago

I thought it was legal to abandon a baby in Lawrence at a fire station or the hospital? Also, it is possible the death was an accident. If you don't know how to take care of a baby, it is possible you could kill yours by smothering it if you put them down wrong and don't keep your eye on them. Postpartum depression also can cause strange behavior in new mothers. I don't know why people are jumping to the conclusion that this has something to do with abortion...

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unite2revolt 7 years ago

I think we have hospital amnesty drop-off laws here too.

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unite2revolt 7 years ago

ACG- How is it not an abortion issue?

Unwanted pregnancy=dead baby. Sounds like an abortion issue to me.

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Steve Jacob 7 years ago

Anyone read the story of the hospital in Japan that has a "hatch" to drop off babies? They did it because they where leaving babies in the park. And abortion is less of a "sin" in Japan.

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imastinker 7 years ago

I think it's tacky and gross that you see this as different than abortion.

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acg 7 years ago

I can't believe you guys are making this into an abortion issue. How tacky and gross!

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Linda Endicott 7 years ago

This is what happens when you make getting an abortion more difficult.

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Dambudzo 7 years ago

If only we had federally funded abortion centers that people could visit. A clean sanitary refuge for those women that have no where else to go.

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jonas 7 years ago

Any tragedy can be made my personal axe to grind. What I think is what's most important.

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Marion Lynn 7 years ago

In this society which so highly values its so-called "right" to murder in the womb, I wonder why they even bother to charge these people!

It's only a baby.

Heck, we've killed 44 MILLION of them since Roe v Wade; what's the big deal?

Thanks.

Marion.

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SettingTheRecordStraight 7 years ago

In a society that values abortion as highly as ours, its no surprise we see such contempt for early life.

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