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Archive for Monday, November 27, 2006

Subdivision bans wreath peace sign

November 27, 2006

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— A homeowners association in southwestern Colorado has threatened to fine a resident $25 a day until she removes a Christmas wreath with a peace sign that some say is an anti-Iraq war protest or a symbol of Satan.

Some of the residents who complained have children serving in Iraq, said Bob Kearns, president of the Loma Linda Homeowners Association in Pagosa Springs. He said some residents also have believed it was a symbol of Satan. Three or four residents complained, he said.

Lisa Jensen said she wasn't thinking of the war when she hung the wreath. She said: "Peace is way bigger than not being at war. This is a spiritual thing."

The subdivision's rules say no signs, billboards or advertising are permitted without the consent of the architectural control committee.

Kearns ordered the committee to require Jensen to remove the wreath, but members refused after concluding that it was merely a seasonal symbol that didn't say anything. Kearns fired all five committee members.

Comments

Jersey_Girl 7 years, 4 months ago

I'm glad it worked out the way it did. And I find it very humorious that Kearns and his buddy changed their phone numbers. Sissies! I wonder if the 5 people who got fired from the board will be given their jobs back or just how quickly Kearns will be ousted from his post. I can't believe he made such a stink over "three or four" complaints (and I'm sure one of those complaints came from him, judging from his reaction to the board's refusal to follow his "orders".). In a community of 200, that is 1.5 - 2% of the community that were complaining. Really, was that worth it?

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Kodiac 7 years, 4 months ago

Kind of strange how certain groups will associate certain themes or ideas to some kind of evil or santanic origins while other obvious originally paganistic themes and ideas being practice by most mainstream religions are never traced back to their origins. As an earlier poster pointed out, just about everything associated with any religious holiday originally come from pagan traditions. When this is pointed out, I usually hear this excuse of how the meanings of such traditions, rituals, ideas, themes can be changed to reflect "good" or "right" purposes. So much for being consistent.

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Christine Pennewell Davis 7 years, 4 months ago

how about banning neighborhood associations?

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Linda Endicott 7 years, 4 months ago

They withdrew their objections to her wreath, saying it was a "misunderstanding" about her "Christmas decoration".

Kearns and one other board member changed their phone numbers to unlisted numbers. Probably because this story had gone national on the net, and they were being bombarded by people calling to complain.

And they probably also discovered that they didn't have a legal leg to stand on.

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Christine Pennewell Davis 7 years, 4 months ago

sorry not enough coffee oh well every one can figure my spelling out I am sure.

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Christine Pennewell Davis 7 years, 4 months ago

I swear if this is all that the ass. has to worry about then they really are just a bunch of lazy now it alls with time on their hand. Not even "Desparate Houseewives" but bored ones.

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jonas 7 years, 4 months ago

Update! Looks like the HOA has decided to possibly back down, but I didn't read the full article.

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/10411803/detail.html

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Marion Lynn 7 years, 4 months ago

Ya know what?

Were I in this situatiion I would say to the Homeowner's Association....................

"You want my wreath down?

COME TAKE IT DOWN!

I DARE YOU TO TRY!

Sue me!

Go right ahead!

When I finish with you, I will own your boats, your cars, your houses and we will re-name the street on which I live after me.

Have a nice day!"

Thanks.

Marion.

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Jersey_Girl 7 years, 4 months ago

Okay, I read the part of the part about the Lion King. If "All of the idolatry of this production is so neatly concealed in dramatic imagery that it blinds all but the most careful observer", what exactly is the problem? If it is concealed and we are being blinded, then we really can't see it, right? Oh, and I really believe God has so much time and micromanages so well that he sent the ant to give her her contact back!

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Katara 7 years, 4 months ago

Satan is trying to corrupt our children through Disney's The Lion King.

http://www.nisbett.com/child-ent/lion_king.htm

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Jersey_Girl 7 years, 4 months ago

Oh, good Lord! Did anyone see that the US government is putting the eye of Lucifer on our currency? The All Seeing Eye (the eye at the top of the pyramid) is the eye of Lucifer!

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Katara 7 years, 4 months ago

@ logicsound04,

I still think there is a good solid marketing campaign for any competitor of Time Warner/AOL.

Slogan "We don't worship Satan AND we still are able to bring you reliable cable broadband services!"

OR

Imagine this scene in tech support @ TimeWarner

Caller: "I'm having a problem with outages."

Support: "I'm sorry to hear that. Occasionally the Flames of Hell will lick up & hit the lines, causing a temporary outage. Unfortunately we cannot credit your account for the time the service down. It is under the "Not an Act of God" clause in your contract."

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Jersey_Girl 7 years, 4 months ago

Who wants to bet that the fired committee members go out and get their own peace wreaths?

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Christine Pennewell Davis 7 years, 4 months ago

did I read this right or was part left out??

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logicsound04 7 years, 4 months ago

Katara,

I've never been so dumbfounded as I was reading the content of those two links. Someone actually took time to put that on the web.

At any rate, I was pleased to find out that I have a choice between types of "sign of the beast" hand gestures I can use at rock concerts. There's the "Horned Hand", where the thumb is resting on the two middle fingers--for when you just want to demonstrate how much something rocks. Then, of course, there's the "Horned God", with thumb tucked under the two fingers.

*disclaimer: "Horned God" is an advanced Satanic move, and should not be attempted unless the band in question is rocking with EXTREME prejudice. Any other use can be dangerous and is not recommended for everyday use.*

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Godot 7 years, 4 months ago

"Relish your independence and cherish diversity; refuse to be complicit in enforcing homogeneity by being a member of a home owner association."

Sorry. Bad sentence construction resulting in bad communication.

Allow me to re-phrase:

Relish your independence and cherish diversity; refuse to be complicit in enforcoing homogeneity as defined by homeowner associations. Do not buy a property that has, as a contingency of purchase, the requirement of joining an HOA.

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Godot 7 years, 4 months ago

"My advice is that she moves to a neighborhood of sensible folks that don't need an HOA to tell them what color to paint the house."

Yep. Once you agree to be bound by the rules of an HOA, you forego your constitutional rights in favor of the contract established by the HOA. Why would anyone pay good money to do that?

For that matter, why would anyone buy into a condo? You pay huge dollars for the air space you occupy, and then subject your decisions of taste to the rule of your neighbors with regard to any improvements, or emblems of free speech, that, without a HOA or condo association, you would be free to make on your own.

This article is a warning. This is what life will be like under "new urbanism" and "smart growth."

Relish your independence and cherish diversity; refuse to be complicit in enforcing homogeneity by being a member of a home owner association.

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Katara 7 years, 4 months ago

Porter, what makes this all the more amusing is that the woman who is displaying the wreath is a past president of this HOA.

This would be someone who is very aware of the rules & she believed she was in compliance with them. Kearns seems to be the only one who disagrees.

I did finally find something about the peace sign being associated with satanism and hoo boy!

http://www.nisbett.com/symbols/peace_sign.htm

You should read what this person (or organization, I'm not sure which) has to say about the Vulcan "Live Long & Prosper" hand sign.

And then there is this one...

http://www.exposingsatanism.org/signsymbols.htm

You know, Sunflower broadband can use some of this stuff to advertise its cable services.

"Did you know that Time Warner/AOL uses a satanic sign as their logo? Satan is their spokesperson. Go with Sunflower Broadband- We don't support Evil!"

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Tychoman 7 years, 4 months ago

Porter, nothing in the HOA rules is being violated. Kearns made a completely arbitrary motion.

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Linda Endicott 7 years, 4 months ago

It sounds to me as if the main person who objects to it is Kearns, the HOA president. Five of the other board members disagreed with him, and he promptly fired them.

So it seems that Kearns IS the HOA in this area.

I still don't understand how a Christmas wreath, in the form of a peace symbol, could be viewed by anybody as decisive or satanic. It's ludicrous.

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Mkh 7 years, 4 months ago

Screw the HOA Contract!!! Read the First Admendment!!!

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Porter 7 years, 4 months ago

I think I have to side with the HOA on this one (I'm wincing like I'm about to be slapped). I don't like HOAs much, but if you signed the contract, you gotta play by the rules. Most of the posts here seem to be making this out to be a question of taste (i.e. it's a peace sign!). That's not the point. The point is that someone else in the HOA doesn't want their house to be associated with the symbol (even if it is 'peace' or 'love' or 'ganja'). I would admit that there's a big difference between a peace sign and a flock of pink flamingos in the yard, but it doesn't matter. The HOA drew a line and this lady crossed it. My advice is that she moves to a neighborhood of sensible folks that don't need an HOA to tell them what color to paint the house.

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Godot 7 years, 4 months ago

Homeowner associations: bah, humbug.

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Emily Hadley 7 years, 4 months ago

I think I'll put one on my door.
I haven't made a holiday wreath in years, and they are strong symbols of God, eternal life, winter, rebirth, the blood of Christ, endurance, strength, and of course, valor and victory in war.

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logicsound04 7 years, 4 months ago

I especially like this little passage from Katara's posted link:

[The association in this 200-home subdivision 270 miles southwest of Denver has sent a letter to her saying that residents were offended by the sign and the board "will not allow signs, flags etc. that can be considered divisive."]

Can anyone cite an example of a LESS-DIVISIVE symbol than a freaking peace sign. A peace sign inherently implies cooperation, brotherhood, and well, peacefulness.


I also love this quote from Kearns:

["Somebody could put up signs that say drop bombs on Iraq. If you let one go up you have to let them all go up," he said in a telephone interview Sunday.]

Yes, because a sign advocating for a specific (violent--and divisive, I might add) action in a specific and current war is EXACTLY the same as hanging a generic peace-shaped Christmas wreath at CHRISTMAS TIME!!!!!!!!!!

Kearns should be fired--what the hell is the point of the committee that he fired if not to provide oversight? It looks like they tried to provide that and were scorned. Imagine if, when the president doesn't like a decision by Congress, he could just fire all of them?

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GardenMomma 7 years, 4 months ago

Suppose this woman also had a "Support Our Troops" sign in her yard in addition to her peace wreath? Would there be such a hubbub about it?

This is a Christmas wreath for heaven's sake! I read the other article in the link Katara supplied and I'm glad the woman is going to keep it up. As for the committee that got fired because they agreed that it was a symbol of the season and nothing more, I hope they take action against Kearns.

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Linda Endicott 7 years, 4 months ago

How in the world can a wreath like that be satanic in any way??

I think those people in the association have been sniffing some funny stuff...

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Katara 7 years, 4 months ago

Also, the link above shows a picture of said wreath.

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Katara 7 years, 4 months ago

Here's an article that contains more info since the LJW didn't (Surprise! Surprise!)

http://www.phillyburbs.com/pb-dyn/news/1-11262006-747401.html

I find it funny enough that the person who is displaying the wreath is a past president of the association.

Imagine some people getting upset about "peace on Earth, goodwill toward men."

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Tony Kisner 7 years, 4 months ago

What in the world is going on?

Sounds like a nice angry community, I'd think the property values just dropped by 30%.

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imastinker 7 years, 4 months ago

I think I'd go in a pool to pay her fines to keep it up as well.

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pagan_idolator 7 years, 4 months ago

Yes badger - the Birth of The Sun - Or - the Birth of The Son. We'll be drumming that ol' Sun up on Solstice morn!

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badger 7 years, 4 months ago

Wow.

Sure hope they make people take down all those crosses, menorahs, stars of David, and five-pointed stars, too.

Each one of those is as much a political statement as a peace sign could ever be.

I mean, seriously, all those people with five-pointed stars in their Christmas displays? Warms my little pagan heart, it does, to drive down my street and see pentacle after pentacle adorning the neighbors' yards...

I wonder sometimes if they know how entertained it makes me, to look out and pretend for a little bit that everyone else in my neighborhood celebrates and embraces my faith.

You know, given that the vast majority of 'Christmas' traditions have pagan roots anyway. Yule logs, decking the halls, stockings, baby being born around the winter solstice who represents rebirth and renewal and hope...

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Emily Hadley 7 years, 4 months ago

"Kearns fired all five committee members."

An unlikely and nice conclusion to the story.

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Emily Hadley 7 years, 4 months ago

Wow. Someone's a little sensitive!

Isn't the purpose of war supposed to be to create and protect peaceful societies? Have we gotten it all wrong here, freedom lovers? Should "peace keepers" change their name? Are yellow ribbons discouraging our goal?

Happy holidays! Peace on Earth!

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Mkh 7 years, 4 months ago

Looks like the Facists are alive and well in Pagosa Springs! I'll personally pay her $25 a day to leave it up.

RIP First Admendment.

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offtotheright 7 years, 4 months ago

I thought the same thing Marion! Maybe it's a misprint and should read Lawrence, Ks........

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ranger73 7 years, 4 months ago

Did they mess up and use a Mercedes sign instead of the peace sign? Saw that once-laughed my a** off. Too much happy happy when they made the signs...

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nschmi04 7 years, 4 months ago

"Peace on Earth and Goodwill toward men"

Damn, and all these years I thought I was being spiritual with this holiday custom.

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Marion Lynn 7 years, 4 months ago

Gosh, when I first saw this article I thought that Lawrence had enacted yet another ban!

Thanks.

Marion.

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jrlii 7 years, 4 months ago

Symbol of Satan? The peace sign is a stylized silhouette of a B-52!

Of course, the Iranians have been referring to the US government as "the great Satan" since the revolution. . .

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