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Archive for Friday, November 17, 2006

Motorists beware: Season for deer mating near peak

High number of wrecks reported

November 17, 2006

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When deer and vehicles meet, bad things happen. The evidence is along the sides of roadways and in the garages at auto body shops.

"We have one in the shop right now and three coming in," office manager Donita DeMersseman said Thursday about the latest deer-damaged vehicle count at Hite Collision Repair Center Inc., 3401 W. Sixth St.

This month in Douglas County, 17 traffic accidents have involved deer, according to the Douglas County Sheriff's Office. One of them resulted in an injury to a motorcycle rider. Eight of the accidents occurred from Nov. 4 through Nov. 7.

Deer have been on the move and acting unpredictably the past two months because it is their mating, or rutting, season. That season is now reaching its peak, and Saturday is being referred to as D-Day, or Deer Day, by the Kansas Department of Transportation.

Nov. 18 is the day the state records especially high numbers of traffic accidents involving deer. KDOT records show about 700 such accidents on that date in the past 10 years.

"We continue to see a high number of crashes in Kansas," said Pete Bodyk, chief of KDOT's Bureau of Traffic Safety. "Drivers need to stay alert to the dangers on roadways Nov. 18."

In Douglas County, the deer-vehicle accident count this month is the same as it was at this time in November 2005. During October this year there were 18 noninjury accidents and one involving an injury, compared with 22 noninjury accidents and one involving an injury in October 2005.

"It would behoove drivers to be very cautious when they are traveling at daybreak and dusk when the deer movement seems to be more active," Sheriff's Lt. Kari Wempe said.

A young deer and a flock of turkeys graze together Wednesday in a soybean field northeast of Lawrence. It's mating season for deer, and the Kansas Department of Transportation warns drivers to be on the lookout.

A young deer and a flock of turkeys graze together Wednesday in a soybean field northeast of Lawrence. It's mating season for deer, and the Kansas Department of Transportation warns drivers to be on the lookout.

Deer population varies

At Hite Collision Repair, an average of six or seven automobiles damaged in deer accidents are brought in each week, DeMersseman said. The business sees others that are damaged beyond repair, she said.

"The bad thing is we see more (deer-damaged vehicles) year-round than we used to," DeMersseman said.

Despite the high number of deer-vehicle accidents, the Kansas Department of Wildlife and Parks noted that the total of such accidents in 2005 - 8,819 - was lower than any year since 1995.

"We take that as an encouraging sign that some of the deer management techniques applied, particularly in regard to the liberal distribution of antlerless deer (hunting) permits, is having a positive effect," said Bob Mathews, Kansas Department of Wildlife and Parks spokesman.

Problems with deer are more noticeable in more populated areas where there is more traffic, Mathews said. He stopped short of saying there is an overpopulation of deer in Kansas.

The department annually adjusts the availability of deer-hunting permits based on population problems, Mathews said. Currently in Kansas it is bow-hunting season for deer. That season began Oct. 1 and ends Nov. 28. Firearms deer season is Nov. 29 to Dec. 10.

"There are a variety of deer season and permit recommendations being considered right now, but there are no plans to change the deer season," Mathews said.

Danger increases

Rural Lawrence resident Hal Davis drives his motorcycle every day to work in Topeka. He travels on U.S. Highway 40, which is notorious for its high accident rate. That danger increases now because of deer he sees during that drive.

"During the last week and a half there's just been progressively more and more (deer) movement," he said. "I tend to slow down a little more this time of year."

Although he has had plenty of successful hunts during the past three years, hunting deer still isn't easy, he said. He hunts during the firearms season, which occurs after deer mating has peaked.

"They are a little more cautious then," he said.

KDOT, however, maintains that deer-vehicle accidents could remain high in December.

Kansas ranks 36th in the nation for deer-automobile accidents among policyholders, according to State Farm Insurance.







Keep your eyes peeled

The Kansas Department of Transportation offers the following tips to help motorists avoid hitting deer: ¢ Be especially watchful at dawn and dusk when deer are particularly active. ¢ Deer seldom travel alone, so if one deer crosses a road there may be others nearby. ¢ Reduce speed and be alert near wooded areas or green spaces, such as parks or golf courses, and near water sources, such as streams or ponds. ¢ Don't swerve to avoid hitting a deer. The most serious accidents occur when motorists take evasive action. ¢ Pay attention when you see deer-crossing signs and always wear a seat belt. ¢ Use bright lights and slow down whenever you spot deer.

Comments

ranger73 8 years, 1 month ago

There are a lot more than just 17 this month-those are just the reported ones. More permits=less deer Either that or let more of our elusive mountain lions around to thin the massive deer population.

jonas 8 years, 1 month ago

Why don't we outlaw bad luck instead?

countrygirl 8 years, 1 month ago

The length of the season is fine. But why make hunters by a $30 deer permit before being able to buy a $10 anterless deer tag? If we want to thin the deer herd down, we need to take more does. Go back to the system we had a few years ago where you could buy the game tag without first having to buy an antlered deer tag. I know several people who stopped hunting deer just because of that.

don_burgess 8 years, 1 month ago

[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[

I say we capture a handful of deer in the surrounding area and torture them to make an example for the rest of their kin to keep off our sacred highways.

-Or we could just let a bunch of retarded hillbillys run amuck with high-powered weapons and "thin" the population of deer to keep them out of our sight year around.

(Or perhaps maybe we should "thin" the population of deer hunters instead. Less drivers on the road = less wildlife-related accidents)

ranger73 8 years, 1 month ago

I went a hunting with my 6 cylinder Ford!

Problem with deer is it's typically not the driver hitting the deer, but the dumb deer running into the car. Most of the people I know that have hit a deer say they saw it and slowed down, but the dumb thing ran into the side of them.

ChasL 8 years, 1 month ago

Nothing wrong with the season length or price of the tag. The problem is access to hunting land, doesn't matter how many deer your allowed to take if you have no place to hunt. Unit 19 was developed to reduce deer numbers along the I-70 corridor,, all it's done is destroy the quality deer hunting on the Clinton WMA(public hunting) because there are few private landowners that allow hunting. How many deer on Clinton do you think have ever even seen I-70, probably none but the slaughter continues.

roger_o_thornhill 8 years, 1 month ago

Motorists beware: Season for deer mating near peak

So quit staring and watch the road. Ain't you never seen a naked deer?

Rationalanimal 8 years, 1 month ago

elusive mountain lions = less deer, but also less fidos, kitties, cows, bikers, joggers, walkers.

Kaw Pickinton 8 years, 1 month ago

They need to move the unit 19 early season closer to the rut.

ChasL 8 years, 1 month ago

Is killing more bucks really population control or is rifle hunting the rut more important? Unit 19 is supposed to be about population control, if this were truley the case than it would(should) be doe only.

Unit 19 was set up by the insurance companies and our stupid(game management wise) legislature to show the public they were doing something about the deer problem. All we're doing is thinning the herd on public land 5 mile from I-70. We can't hunt hogs on Clinton because hunting doesn't control the population and pushes hogs onto private land............hmm, aren't we doing the same thing to deer by having Clinton as part of the unit 19 early season?

The ruts on, hang up your damn cellphone and pay attention to whats going on around you.

Confrontation 8 years, 1 month ago

I can't believe they didn't warn drivers about the real danger of deer mating season. If your car breaks down, do not approach a mating set. Didn't you see the story about the man whose lifelong pet buck decided to kill him during mating season? Don't stare at deer sex. If you are approaching a mating pair, then I suppose you should get some counseling, as well.

Ken Miller 8 years, 1 month ago

Nice headline by the LJW. Motorists, watch out for mating deer - or else you just might be mounted.

ASBESTOS 8 years, 1 month ago

"Is killing more bucks really population control or is rifle hunting the rut more important? Unit 19 is supposed to be about population control, if this were truley the case than it would(should) be doe only."

Sounds like a BOWHUNTER!

IF KDWP were serious about "controling the deer herd" they would do MUSH more than they have done in the past.

Speaking from the "Firearms hunters" POV, the season for firearms being 10-12 days is LAUGHABLE! The bowhunters get 2.5 months, which is crazy. IF you want or choose to hunt with a bow, then you need to accept the lower success rates of that weapon,...and QUIT restrcting the main population CONTROL in this isue... FIREARM HUNTERS.

The KDWP does NOT KNOW the populatin of the herd either. The recent changes in the KDWP Big Game hunting regulations has bee a pissing match between bowhunters and Outfitters.. GUESS WHOM is left holding the bad with less time afield and less land to be able to hunt... FIREARMS HUNTERS. Currently we are loosing our heritage of hunting because the regulatorychanges are to placate the bowhunters in Kansas (approx. 12,000) and the NR and Guided hunts (approximately 14,000). Resident Rifle hunters (KANSAS RESIDENTS) are VERY RESTRICTED, and there was at one time 75,000. They have dropped off in the last couple of years to around 57,000.

SO by the numbers the legislature needs to know that the deer population is NOT being "Managed", it is being "saved" for bowhunters to get racks, and outfitters to seel the herd access on deer, a State of Kansas possession, not belonging to ANY individual.

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"Unit 19 was set up by the insurance companies and our stupid(game management wise) legislature to show the public they were doing something about the deer problem."

Another uninformed opinion provided by the Kansas Bowhunters Association (KBA). You do need to reduce the herd in this corridor (regardless of what fit the KBA throws) because of the amount of traffic. Additionally if KDHE were serious about "thinning the herd" they would employ handgun hunting in close proximity to towns with limited velocity and DOE ONLY. Hand gun hunting is MUCH MUCH more successful and effective than a bow and arrow.

One of the problems is thea the KDWP has MANY of their employees as being past and current members of KBA. THAT is the main reason Deer herd management has been thrown out the window.

WHOM pasy the largest share of this program...that is RIGHT...FIREARMS HUNTERS.

REGULATE BOWHUNTERS that MAIM DEER, and if you are going to kill something, USE AN EFFECTIVE MEANS OF KILL with lower wounding recovery during hunting such as firearms hunting.

KICK all the bowhunters and KBA members out of KDWP for collusion with the regulatory process and also trying to invluence the laws they are to uphold.

ASBESTOS 8 years, 1 month ago

ANOTHER agency out of control and under the influence of lobbyist organizations.

countrygirl 8 years, 1 month ago

Thank-you bowhunter! My husband bow hunts, and I rifle hunt and we've never lost an animal after it was hit. It's more about making a good shot selection and passing up a shot that is questionable rather than risk not getting a kill shot. My point is to just make the doe tags easier to access. Get rid of the requirement to have to buy the antlered permit first. My in-laws would like to be able to take a doe just for the meat, but as a retired couple would rather not have to shell out $60 for two tags as opposed to $20.

ranger73 8 years, 1 month ago

Confrontation- So why would anyone want to approach a mating pair of deer?

(Insert any number of jokes here)

Either way-look out for the mating ones, and the horny ones that have been left out!

As far as maiming deer-if you're a bad shot your a bad shot, whether or not you use a bow, rifle, or a howitzer. (Lately I have chosen to use my truck-much more effective-3 deer in the last 12 months...)

Prydain 8 years, 1 month ago

There was in early rifle season in unit 19, Oct 14th to 22nd. KDWP is trying something. Missouri's firearms season is Nov 11th, to 21st, thats similar to Kansas.

ASBESTOS 8 years, 1 month ago

"and no.. you freak... a rifle is not more efficient than a bow. I've yet to not recover a animal shot with a bow."

Recovery rates of the Camp Ripley study indicated that fro every 1 deer shot and harvested by a bow, there was 2.5 not recovered and lost that had been shot and wounded.

ANYONE that thinks that a bow doesn't wound animals it obsessed about their particular form of hunting and igonring the laws of physics.

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"A double-lung/heart shot with a bow is probably the most effective ways to harvest an animal."

Unh,... NO> A heart lung shot with a bow still requires the animal to "bleed out".

A heart lung shor with a large caliber handgun, or rifle or shotgun will kill the animal with hydrostatic shock. The animals death does not rely on "bleeding out" as the bow injured and maimed animal does.

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"As far as maiming deer-if you're a bad shot your a bad shot, whether or not you use a bow, rifle, or a howitzer."

VALID point, but lower velocity and limited range weapons are by definition not as effective nor efficient.

Prydain 8 years, 1 month ago

Bowhunting is going to continue to be the preferred method of take by agencies (cities, states...etc) seeking to control deer population in or near populated areas.

Not all rifle shots kill by hydrostatic shock. I have witnessed numerous shots through the rib cage where the animal has run off and 'bled out', especially with older sierra bullets. You can get around this by aiming for the shoulder blade but you ruin the whole side you hit.

ASBESTOS 8 years, 1 month ago

Prydian and Bowhunter , et al:

Regardless of "what you have seen", the reality is that far more animals go down and are recovered with firearms as the tool. There is much more lost game using archery equipment.

That was one of the arguments from the Bowhunters opposing the crossbows. Seems as if the bowhunters in the state of Kansas want to call all the shots and limit all the rest of the hunters in the state of Kansas.... simply because they choose a far less effective ane efficient hunting equipment selection.

Besides the 12,000 archery hunters are NOT going to take up the slack nor fill the needs of managing the der herd. ONLY the fireearms hunters have the numbers to actually make any difference at all.

This is another bogus argument that the State of Kansas Bowhunters use, their particular choice of weapon does not have any great effect on the herd, so they should get the longer season.

SAW! if that is true then you need to expand the firearms season when the deer population expands. THAT is management.

Prydain 8 years, 1 month ago

ASBESTOS:

They have expanded the season for rifle hunters. There are two more season than there was five years ago. Trying to convince the land owners to allow gun hunting on their property is what needs to be done. The walk in hunting program has helped but it isn't extensive enough in Johnson and Douglas county. Some of this ground only allows bowhunting. I agree with ChasL on this one. Property access is the key to managing the deer herd.

number3of5 8 years, 1 month ago

I have nothing against deer hunting for the meat. I happen to like venison a lot. But to keep from hitting a deer on the road, quit being stupid and put deer warners on your vehicle.

countrygirl 8 years, 1 month ago

I can't blame some of the private land owners for not allowing rifle hunters. A rifle bullet travels a long way and a person not familiar with the lay of the land may not realize that a house lies just over that ridge. An arrow won't go nearly as far.

Sigmund 8 years, 1 month ago

How fleeting is fame? Surprised nobody has reprized the classic, "Young men bring home bloody roadkill", and that ever classic, "Men bring dead deer to apartment." http://www2.ljworld.com/blogs/lawrence_blotter/2006/oct/23/deaddeer/ http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2006/oct...

Causes me to giggle like a little girl every time I think of it!

commonsense 8 years, 1 month ago

That's it. I'm trading in my Bow and my 30.06 for a Scottish Deer Hound.

ChasL 8 years, 1 month ago

ASBESTOS, care to tell me who the W&P commissioners are that belong to the KBA? Care to list the Legislatures that belong to the KBA?

Hayden, the Commission, and the Legislature care only about one thing................non-resident dollars. They do not have the best interest of the KS sportsperson at heart. What is bringing all these non-resident hunters to Kansas............BIG BUCKS(deer). How did KS end up with so many BIG BUCK..............no rifles in the rut and sacrifices made by KANSAS resident rifle hunters. Oh yeah, were does KS rate nationally in the amount of public land we have.........48th I think..........now tell me this isn't an access issue.

I rifle, muzzleload and bow hunt..........don't have a problem with any of the season lengths. Would you happen to have the # for the Kansas Rifle Hunters Ass., I would also like to support them.........is there one;^)

ASBESTOS 8 years, 1 month ago

"ASBESTOS, care to tell me who the W&P commissioners are that belong to the KBA? Care to list the Legislatures that belong to the KBA?"

I did not say commissioners, but they were Will Carpenter, and John Dykes. There are MANY employees of of KDWP that are members of KBA. Such as Loyd Fox, Keith Sexton, BJ Thurmon, and his partner, can't remember his name. Goes by "agate eye on bowsite.com. That is how the KBA gets informatin first. These idiots also pass information of ongoing investigations for poaching as well.

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I was talking about the ones that were EMPLOYED by the KDWP, like the previous "Conservation Officer" for the KBA, is an employee out in Western Kansas. Tried to make rifle hunting offlimits in the Page Creek Area.

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"How did KS end up with so many BIG BUCK..............no rifles in the rut ..."

BS. It is the genetics and the whole state is "high quality feed". The deer are "grain fed". then you say something like this:

"...sacrifices made by KANSAS resident rifle hunters."

That makes my point, thank you. It wwould be nice toreward the "sacrafices" that the rifle hunters make,...if it was responsible for making the herd the way it is. The problem is that tthere is WAY too many does, and restricting the Rifle season is NOT the cure or a proven management process to correct that.

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"They have expanded the season for rifle hunters. There are two more season than there was five years ago."

No there is not. They did away with a lot of the latedoe only season. My complaint is to expand the season by one week in the regular season. Then there would be no need for a "special season".

kmat 8 years, 1 month ago

Two comments

1) To decrease the number of deer hit, we need to STOP URBAN SPRAWL. Why are accidents increasing? BECAUSE WE ARE TAKING AWAY THEIR HABITAT! The more new housing complexes, shopping malls, etc.... just keep adding to the problem. The deer want to get away from us, but they can't when there isn't any land for them.

2) Those bitching about there not being enough land to hunt on. SHUT UP! My family has had to kick off and have some ignorant a$$hole hunters arrested for not leaving their farm land. It is private property and the land owners don't want people out there shooting weapons. During hunting seasons, my family has had to really watch themselves because people consistently will sneak onto their property. We don't want to risk being shot, our animals shot, etc... And when it comes to hunting on public land, should never be allowed. Just because you want to kill some deer doesn't mean you have to endanger others that are on this land. If I'm out around Clinton Lake on public property, I don't want to have to worry about hunters with loaded guns.

Also, I've seen many stupid, drunk hunters in my life. Don't everyone jump my case on this. I know all hunters don't slam beers while on the hunt, but there are many rednecks with rifles that do. Those have usually been the stupid ones that the Sheriff would have to remove from our property.

You want to hunt, find someone that will allow you to hunt on their land. I know if people come and ask my uncle if they can hunt on his land, he will set up a time when they can come out (they have to report to him first so he is aware they are there) and he will give them X number of hours to be out there. When their time is up, they then just have to come tell him they're leaving. That way no one will accidentally get shot.

Respect private and public land. Guns are dangerous and mistakes can be made by the best of hunters.

Prydain 8 years, 1 month ago

There still is a late doe season all tags revert to anterless firearms tags. They added a new early season firearms hunt in unit 19. Firearms tags are now over the counter opposed to a lottery as they used to be. KDWP is making it easier for rifle hunters.

ASBESTOS 8 years, 1 month ago

Tracy Galvin was the other KDWP employee that is a member of KBA.

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"There still is a late doe season all tags revert to anterless firearms tags. They added a new early season firearms hunt in unit 19."

Not in all units. ANd Unit 19 is not extended for the whole of the state. IT is a SPECIAL MANAGEMENT AREA, that means different for the slow folks. The Unit 19 is also VERY short as well, and limited in area.

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"Firearms tags are now over the counter opposed to a lottery as they used to be."

DUH! They had to become OTC, because the archery primary tags were. That is what I mean about the KDWP "catering" to the wailings of the KBA. NOW though, the KDWP is getting to be populated by the Ouitfitters Association members. Funny thing though, those historical KBA members in KDWP are the ones advocating for the Outfitters wants and needs now. That is my main problem with Kansas Bowhunters, self serving BS for the most part.

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"KDWP is making it easier for rifle hunters."

You wouldn't think so if you were a Rifle hunter. That is why we have lost almost 20,000 in the last 3 years. That is 1.5 times the amount of Archery hunters.

Rifle hunters have to put up with a lot more than any other hunting proces1.

A very short season pushing multiple hunters on limited public and available land.

THe Available land is now leased up and that pushes that 57,000 on limited land to even more limited land for only 10-12 days.

Archery hunter density, 12,000 for 75+ days,

Rifle hunter density 57,000 for 10-12 days.

Just do the math and you see whom is getting it in the hind end.

IF THAT is easier for Rifle hunters you have no clue and are a disingenous bowhunter parading around like a very concerned hunter (which you are not).

This is about deer management, not for keeping rifle hunters out of the field, and making it so difficult to hunt the Firearms hunters are quitting.

That is right 20,000 times the tag cost and the loss of revenue to the state. That easily outpaces the NR hunting revenues.

ASBESTOS 8 years, 1 month ago

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Thank you KMAT for your eloquent response and you are right, slob hunters are a waste, and indicate about how terrible a job that the KDWP does on enforcement (just as bad as KDHE).

"1) To decrease the number of deer hit, we need to STOP URBAN SPRAWL. Why are accidents increasing? BECAUSE WE ARE TAKING AWAY THEIR HABITAT!"

Yes encroaching on the habitat. Yes correct the number of accidents in NOT indicitcave of the number of deer, but the increas in the number of CARS. THe KDWP used to use car accidents to predict the deer population, now they have just given up and are not trying anything.

"2) Those bitching about there not being enough land to hunt on. SHUT UP! My family has had to kick off and have some ignorant a$$hole hunters arrested for not leaving their farm land. It is private property and the land owners don't want people out there shooting weapons."

TRESSPASSING should NOT BE TOLERATED at ALL. Thank ou for this sentiment. THIS is not hunting, it is POACHING and STEALING.

"I know all hunters don't slam beers while on the hunt, but there are many rednecks with rifles that do."

Again thank you for the distinction between hunters and "rednecks with rifles". GOOD ONER!

ChasL 8 years, 1 month ago

Wow, a couple of game wardens belong to the KBA.........it's a conspiracy. Rather than ranting(yes you rant) about a grassroots group focused on protecting the hunting rights of Kansans, maybe you should focus on the stupidity of having Legislatures making wildlife management decisions. Yes the KBA is pro bowhunting, but many of their battles effect all KS sportspersons. Got the numbers to any other grass roots KS hunting groups?

Do you have any proof that only genetics and the feed bag are only thing that gives KS big Bucks? We've NEVER had rifles in the rut, so your statement is unprovable. Don't forget age as a huge part of why KS has big bucks, they don't get old on Clinton anymore. All Kansans currently have a chance to shoot a "trophy" buck, can you guarantee that will be the case if rifles are allowed in during the rut? Check out MO's P&Y and B&C entries compared to KS........they have guns in the rut. You say we have to many does, is that your "professional" opinion.............sure can't be Lloyd Fox's, he doesn't have a clue what we have for a herd or how many are harvested. I know you don't hear as much about crop damage since deer became a "cash crop". We need check stations and actual unit management, not this crap guessing we have now.

Totally agree about the slob hunter comments and the need for more enforcement............but wardens aren't free and KDW&P doesn't seem to have much of a budget,hmmm.

Good luck and good hunting.

ASBESTOS 8 years, 1 month ago

"Do you have any proof that only genetics and the feed bag are only thing that gives KS big Bucks?"

Do you have any proof that no Rifle hunting in the Rut accounts for Big bucks there CHAS????

OF course antler grownt is only 2 things, genetics which is potential, and nutrients which lets poential fulfill itself. Merely not allowing shooting of bucks when they are dumb will just limit bucks and the population...not the quality. DUH!

"We've NEVER had rifles in the rut, so your statement is unprovable."

Makes yours that way too, forgot about that didn't you! What a lulu!

"We need check stations and actual unit management, not this crap guessing we have now."

I pushed for that four years ago and was put down by the KBA on the bowsite.com and at the public meetings.

"but wardens aren't free and KDW&P doesn't seem to have much of a budget,hmmm. "

THAT is exactly what they ARE SUPPOSED to be doing with the money they collected, not spending it on private and petty programs. Take care of the big things and the little things will come around.

"Yes the KBA is pro bowhunting, but many of their battles effect all KS sportspersons."

PRO BOwhunting in Kansas is equal to CON Rifle hunting. Have you talked to the Kansas bowhunters. They called rifle hunters poachers, the "orange army", shoot deer out of the pickup window.

I have alsoseen a lot of sloppy bowhunters. I have harvested 3 deer with braodheads in them from obvious poor shot placement, (neck and spine). SHooting too high on something too far away. SO please do not tell me about the bowhunters great concern for the resource, it is a myth for the most part. They also donot hold the high ground on hunting even if they are legendary hunters if only in their sorry bowhunter little mind.

ASBESTOS 8 years, 1 month ago

"PRO BOwhunting in Kansas is equal to CON Rifle hunting."

SHould be Pro Bowhunting is ANTI Rifle hunting.

ASBESTOS 8 years, 1 month ago

"Wow, a couple of game wardens belong to the KBA.........it's a conspiracy."

That's right LAW ENFORCEMENT! Having a conflict of interest??? NO problem to you? There is more than that. GO down to Pratt and look at all the KBA stickers on the Pickups of employees.

Other State Agencies cannot allow employees to belong to lobbyist groups within their area of enforcement and regulation. Why is it OK with you for KDWP game wardens???

ChasL 8 years, 1 month ago

"OF course antler grownt is only 2 things, genetics which is potential, and nutrients which lets poential fulfill itself. Merely not allowing shooting of bucks when they are dumb will just limit bucks and the population...not the quality. DUH!

"We've NEVER had rifles in the rut, so your statement is unprovable."

Makes yours that way too, forgot about that didn't you! What a lulu!"

Ever seen a 10 point that was 2 years old? When you shoot them when their dumb they never get to reach their potential. Hard to follow what you were trying to say.

""We need check stations and actual unit management, not this crap guessing we have now."

I pushed for that four years ago and was put down by the KBA on the bowsite.com and at the public meetings."

I belong to the KBA and also think we need check stations. Of course the guy I voted to represent me in Washington isn't doing everything I want either, your point? The KBA is a paying sponsor of the Bowsite, it's not the offical website of the KBA. Some people on that site are KBA members, many are not. Are you a KBA member, if so, then contact your area Rep.. If your not than I have to wonder why you choose to push your views on them. After all, there the enemy to you.

"PRO BOwhunting in Kansas is equal to CON Rifle hunting. Have you talked to the Kansas bowhunters. They called rifle hunters poachers, the "orange army", shoot deer out of the pickup window."

Have you ever read anywhere that the KBA want to outlaw rifle hunting? They are a bowhunting group not a rifle group, of course their going to be Pro Bowhunting.......cry about your lack of rifle hunting representaion in Topeka to someone else, the KBA isn't for or against you, waaa.

Read your next statement again and then tell me about highground. Your no better than any other name caller.

"I have alsoseen a lot of sloppy bowhunters. I have harvested 3 deer with braodheads in them from obvious poor shot placement, (neck and spine). SHooting too high on something too far away. SO please do not tell me about the bowhunters great concern for the resource, it is a myth for the most part. They also donot hold the high ground on hunting even if they are legendary hunters if only in their sorry bowhunter little mind."

"Wow, a couple of game wardens belong to the KBA.........it's a conspiracy."

That's right LAW ENFORCEMENT! Having a conflict of interest??? NO problem to you? There is more than that. GO down to Pratt and look at all the KBA stickers on the Pickups of employees.

Other State Agencies cannot allow employees to belong to lobbyist groups within their area of enforcement and regulation. Why is it OK with you for KDWP game wardens???"

How many full time paid lobbist does the KBA have...........let me help ya out, ZERO.

ChasL 8 years, 1 month ago

cont.

Rifle season is just around the corner, did you get your 6 tags?? Is that enough?? If ya don't fill them all are you going to blame the KBA and bowhunters?? I haven't bowhunted in about 5 years but am looking forward to using my muzzleloader.

disclaimer: The views I've expressed here are not a representation of the views of the KBA...........ya never know what kind of bitter people will be twisting things around;^P

ASBESTOS 8 years, 1 month ago

"Have you ever read anywhere that the KBA want to outlaw rifle hunting?"

EMPHATICALLY YES!!!

Try Doug from Manhattan, the 300 pounder that showed up to a trad shoot in a lion cloth. I could name names in the KBA about those Officers past and present that want Rifle hunting ended and only shotguns. How about Ron in Lawrence, he blathers on and on on Bowsite.com about how great things are in IOWA because of shotguns only and no rifles.

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"How many full time paid lobbist does the KBA have...........let me help ya out, ZERO."

THE WHOLE KBA organization is a "lobbyist" you dim wit. Yes I think SHawn has done some good things, but there again, the attitude of everything for archery and nothing for rifles permeates that misreable little organization. HELL, there are some bowhunters what want nothing to do with it, as it is so eliteists (they think).

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"Rifle season is just around the corner, did you get your 6 tags?? Is that enough??"

Again this response shows bias hereof an archery only hunter. YOU get 6 tags too, but 2.5 months + to fill them. What do I get??? 10-12 days.

YOU are a hunting hypocrite!

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"The views I've expressed here are not a representation of the views of the KBA......." OH like after all your puffing about the virtues of the KBA , NOW you say your views don't reflect KBA.. I'd say they reflect them PERFECTLY.

ASBESTOS 8 years, 1 month ago

WHY dear GENERAL PUBLIC do they have to preface what they say..... because 4 years ago they were talking about booby traps to "protect their hunting site" on the bowsite.com. Post after post on placement and use of "rat traps", by the MEMBERSHIP of KBA. Rat traps are 2 x 8's with bridge spikes pounded through them and then are put spike side up buried in the ground.

THIS is the mentalitity you have here. That is also the mentalitity that is unfortunately running our KDWP deer management program and the main reason it is screwed.

THANK you there KBA member for "OUTING" the org for what it is and showing your anti Rifle hunting bias and ignoring the thread which has to do with MANAGING Bambi, not rifle hunters. That is the KDWP problem....they listen and rely on bowhunter too much.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

"I haven't bowhunted in about 5 years but am looking forward to using my muzzleloader."

Yeah, and that is BS too, judging by your bias against rifle hunting. ANd DID YOU as a muzzleloader want to have your season longer and later, but was opposed by whom... that's right, the bowhunters don't want to give up their percious 2.5 months of hunting season, which elbows out the rest of the hunters in the state.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

IN short.... BOWHUNTERS in KANSAS are selfish, and only want management that favors bowhunters,.... not Kansans, nor other hunters.

THAT is a fact and is shown in ALL their literature and testimoney in committee and at the commission meetings.

THAT is all in the PUBLIC RECORD.

DUDE, you're BUSTED!

middleoftheroader 8 years, 1 month ago

Quick Ned! he's coming right at us!!! thinout their numbers!

ChasL 8 years, 1 month ago

Well for starters you've labled me anti-rifle.........wrong, where have I stated that I'm anti-rifle. I've even given them credit for making sacrifices. I could careless about the equipment a person uses as long as it is legal for that season. My earlier comments on this subject were that i felt the the early unit 19 was not need on Clinton public land.

  1. The Clinton deer do not impact the number of car-deer accidents on I-70, 40 ,59 ,or 56, it's a long ways from these highways. Any deer that may drift off Clinton could be harvested on private land. Unit 19 was "given" to us as a method to reduce deer-car accidents.

  2. If it were actually about population control then deer game tags(doe tags) would be allowed on the WMA, but there not.

  3. I (not the KBA) feel that it reduces the quality of the hunting for local resident unit 19 hunters that rely on public land for their opportunities. By the time regular rifle season gets here there have been 3 units worth of hunters up there killing and scaring the deer.

I'm not anti-rifle, I'm PRO-resource. Don't really care if you believe that or not.

"Try Doug from Manhattan, the 300 pounder that showed up to a trad shoot in a lion cloth. I could name names in the KBA about those Officers past and present that want Rifle hunting ended and only shotguns. How about Ron in Lawrence, he blathers on and on on Bowsite.com about how great things are in IOWA because of shotguns only and no rifles."

Wow, has legistlation been brought forth or submitted that wants to outlaw rifles..........not that I know of. If the KBA is so powerful then way hasn't it been done. You name a couple of members that have voiced there opinions on a BOWHUNTING site, they are entitled but guess what.............everyone is entitled. There have been several anti bowhunting comments made on this site.........are they entitled, yep.

"Again this response shows bias hereof an archery only hunter. YOU get 6 tags too, but 2.5 months + to fill them. What do I get??? 10-12 days.

YOU are a hunting hypocrite!"

I get 6, no kidding, thanks for telling me, duh!!

Your only limited to 10-12 days for 1 of your tags, your primary either sex tag. The statewide antlerless and the 4 game tags can be used during any season with legal equipment. I've choosen to use various types of equipment to maximize my time in the woods. My primary tag is Muzzleloader and I have a statewide antlerless that I hope to fill with a rifle or ML. I haven't bowhunted for deer in about 5 years, am I still a bowhunter,hmmm. I'm sorry you don't feel your 3 seasons are enough, to many opportunities out there to just sit and whine about what you don't have.

ChasL 8 years, 1 month ago

"THE WHOLE KBA organization is a "lobbyist" you dim wit. Yes I think SHawn has done some good things, but there again, the attitude of everything for archery and nothing for rifles permeates that misreable little organization. HELL, there are some bowhunters what want nothing to do with it, as it is so eliteists (they think)."

Hey dimwit, it's a BOWHUNTING organization. So the membership rally's against bill's they don't agree with, thats great for the bowhunters in the bowhunting club, at least bowhunters have worked to make their voices heard in Topeka. Why haven't you listed any grassroots rifle org's., because there aren't any. Instead of whining about a bowhunting group supporting a bowhunting agenda maybe you should try and rally riflehunters into a common voice. Stop b&#%hing and sniping, do something positive with your energy.

"The views I've expressed here are not a representation of the views of the KBA......." OH like after all your puffing about the virtues of the KBA , NOW you say your views don't reflect KBA.. I'd say they reflect them PERFECTLY.

Bad wording on my part.............My views are not the OFFICAL views of the KBA.

I do believe the KBA is a great organization for KS bowhunters and if in their battles they help protect our KS hunting heritage a little longer than I think their good for all hunters..............just so ya understand, they are a bowhunting organization.

"WHY dear GENERAL PUBLIC do they have to preface what they say..... because 4 years ago they were talking about booby traps to "protect their hunting site" on the bowsite.com. Post after post on placement and use of "rat traps", by the MEMBERSHIP of KBA. Rat traps are 2 x 8's with bridge spikes pounded through them and then are put spike side up buried in the ground.

THIS is the mentalitity you have here. That is also the mentalitity that is unfortunately running our KDWP deer management program and the main reason it is screwed."

So a guy vents on a blog about how is he frustrated with tresspassers, poachers, vandals and people shooting cattle on his land. He was chastised on the site as irresponsible, never did it and I believe no longer is a member. I know I've never read in the offical bi-monthly newsletter about the KBA supporting spiked pits, or being anti-rifle.


ChasL 8 years, 1 month ago

"THANK you there KBA member for "OUTING" the org for what it is and showing your anti Rifle hunting bias and ignoring the thread which has to do with MANAGING Bambi, not rifle hunters. That is the KDWP problem....they listen and rely on bowhunter too much."

My first post on this thread:

"Nothing wrong with the season length or price of the tag. The problem is access to hunting land, doesn't matter how many deer your allowed to take if you have no place to hunt. Unit 19 was developed to reduce deer numbers along the I-70 corridor,, all it's done is destroy the quality deer hunting on the Clinton WMA(public hunting) because there are few private landowners that allow hunting. How many deer on Clinton do you think have ever even seen I-70, probably none but the slaughter continues."

My second post on this thread: "Is killing more bucks really population control or is rifle hunting the rut more important? Unit 19 is supposed to be about population control, if this were truley the case than it would(should) be doe only.

Unit 19 was set up by the insurance companies and our stupid(game management wise) legislature to show the public they were doing something about the deer problem. All we're doing is thinning the herd on public land 5 mile from I-70. We can't hunt hogs on Clinton because hunting doesn't control the population and pushes hogs onto private land............hmm, aren't we doing the same thing to deer by having Clinton as part of the unit 19 early season?"

I was talking about nothing but game management, your the one that brought up bowhunting, the KBA, and the anti-rifle alligation.

Your first post:

""Is killing more bucks really population control or is rifle hunting the rut more important? Unit 19 is supposed to be about population control, if this were truley the case than it would(should) be doe only."

Sounds like a BOWHUNTER!""

I stand by my words............Clinton doesn't need to be in the Unit 19 early season. Your the one that brought your personal vendetta to this thread.

ChasL 8 years, 1 month ago

75X55,

Tresspassers are slobs, I don't care what they have in their hands.

Marion,

.54 Hawkins.

Kristine Bailey 8 years, 1 month ago

The biggest problem in deer population is that they have either twins or triplets after their 1st pregnancy. Add good crop land which didn't exist in Indian times and volia!! One doe equals 3-4 deer. I've hunted Muzzle, Rifle and Bow. I took up the bow becuase I wanted to see Bucks who were not shy, becaude that's all you see during rifle. I nearly feel out of my tree when a buck walked right up to my stand for my 1st bow hunt (after 15 yrs of the lame, cold rifle hunting) You SEE more deer in Bow that are out of range. See less deer during rifle, need to be able to take a long shot. They all run away if only heart and lung are shot.

ASBESTOS 8 years, 1 month ago

"So a guy vents on a blog about how is he frustrated with tresspassers, poachers, vandals and people shooting cattle on his land." NO Chas, it was about 20-30 bowhunters, with 2o those being those "Game Wardens" in the fray of discussion. AND the discussion was NOT about cattle or gates etc., it was the bowhunters protecting "their" hunting spot. THere was NOTHING nobel about it. Istill have all the threads and printed them out.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Chas all the "defensive comments" you have posted here just walk you around in a circle and show that you are anti rifle in this state. All the rest is smoke and BS!

Whine on string and quiver boy! THius thing is going to turn, and it has turned. THE KBA is loosing the stature it once had in the eyes of many sportsmen I talk with. THey wish the whole thing would go away. However, since KDWP did not remover their influence from lobby groups and make the employees follow OFFICIAL STATE LAW AND POLICY, now the outfitters are IN at KDWP.

Good job KBA for helping to sell out the deer herd by refusing to allow fellow resident hunters (firearm hunters) access.

You are now an official anti hunting group!

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"See less deer during rifle, need to be able to take a long shot."

Additionally you see a WHOLE lot more people and you only have 10-12 days to fill that tag.

Chas, you would be crying if the bowhunters were as restricted as Rifle hunters.

LOOK at how big of fit the archery huinters threw when they were limited to 2 RIFLE UNITS instead of STATEWIDE. Another additional problem and indication of poor management. If you want to take care of does why does KDWP limit gun hunters to only one unit....you must choose, except for a game tag which you cannot use on Department managed lands.

Why all the restriction??? If you want does dead, let the rifle hunter have a longer season,... and allow them to go all over and get the does.

In a nutrient rich environment (KANSAS) the does are always going to have twins or triplets maybe even for 2 years.

THAT is why we have a herd of quality... the nutrients... not the supposed or mythical "management" by KDHE.

ASBESTOS 8 years, 1 month ago

KDWP not KDHE. Both agencies are f' ed up!

ASBESTOS 8 years, 1 month ago

"Unit 19, then there is a late season, so all told, riflers get almost a month."

That is NOT entirely true. The Rifle hunter must specify ONLY ONE UNIT, and cannot hunt other units. Additionally the UNIT 19 is good for all surrounding units, but when the special season isover, the units go back to unit only. There are 16 Firearms units. The archery had a piss fit when they were told they would have to choose units like everyone else does. They are trying to reverse that. THAT is not equal application of the law.

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""my son wounded an 8-point and I'm looking for it" --that ticked me off."

I am suprised they asked and or even tried finding it. The wounding rates for bowhunting are very high, and unrecovered carcasses with arrows and or broadheads in them litter the areas where the bowhunters congregate on public ground.

I am NOT against bowhunting nor do I want it eliminated.

I am just very tired of this supposedly "ethical" means of taking an animal (the wounding rates tell the truth) getting all that time afield, all those weekends so they don't have to take time off work, less hunters in the field during the season, and a run of the entire state, all because they choose to use the least effective and least efficient method of hunting.

It is a decision made on tradition, myth, deception, and just plain ignorance.

The firearms hunters pay twice, once for the taqg, and again for the tax on the ammo guns etc, that is NOT assessed anymore on archery equipment.

Since the firearms are the means of population control and management, AND they pay for the program, they should get "dibs" on the season.

ANy other decision is simply ignorant. All debate to support the status quo is simply scientifically unsupported propaganda. Courtesy of the KBA.

ChasL 8 years, 1 month ago

Asbestos, I'll bet ya a 6 pack that seasons don't change very much in the next 5 years.

Deer are worth money to KS now, big buck specifically. Bucks don't get big if their picked off as a button buck (thought it was a doe)from 200yards. Outfitters can't get enough tags for bowhunters but the state had left over non-res rifle, doubt those cagey outfitters are going to want much more rifle season..........can't get rid of the tags they have now. I think the only people(as a group) pushing for herd reductions are the insurance companies. The state wants non-res dollars, the commuities want non-res dollars, deer are now a cash crop for landowners(you don't build a herd by selling the heifers)..............deer on the hoof is money!!

Do you like the one tag for all seasons idea?

How about unlimited non-res rifle tags on this side of the state?

Hell, you've spun so much I'm dizzy(and sick), but the simple fact is bowhunters have a voice and you don't. So keep spinning and when there is no one left to stand up for our sport you'll have won.

5 years, bet the primary rifle season isn't doubled. Theres more management going on up there than you think. Bet?

ASBESTOS 8 years, 1 month ago

"Asbestos, I'll bet ya a 6 pack that seasons don't change very much in the next 5 years." And:

"5 years, bet the primary rifle season isn't doubled"

Safe bet there. Rifle seasons are not really significantly changed from when they first started regulating the hunt. KDWQP is not managing a resource, they are punishing resident rifle hunters whom PAY for the majority of the program and are the PRIMARY MANAGEMENT TOOL.

The reason all those many years ago? It is in the information I possess and it is KGC Official documents.

To raise money to finance the program. NOT to manage the deer, but to raise money.

40 years later and we still have the same process for game management.

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"Do you like the one tag for all seasons idea?"

NO

"How about unlimited non-res rifle tags on this side of the state?"

NO

All I want is an extra week or two for the resident rifle hunter, and a close season that includes handguns in the rut for PRIMARY tags.

ALL permits are tied to game management units... and that include the bowhunters.

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"Hell, you've spun so much I'm dizzy(and sick), but the simple fact is bowhunters have a voice and you don't."

Asterisks for emphasis. THAT is right, they have attention paid to their little pissing matches and the vast majority of hunters FIREARMS want more time afield..

AND the public DEMANDS that the hunting commence to reduce deer numbers.

WE do not manage in this state at all.

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YOU want to talk about my spinning Here is your here KS CHAS (yeah I know who you are):

From your 1:23 post 11/18:

"Theres more management going on up there than you think."

Your 10:16 11/17 post:

"Is killing more bucks really population control or is rifle hunting the rut more important? Unit 19 is supposed to be about population control, if this were truley the case than it would(should) be doe only."

Well is there or is there not management going on??? You seem a trifle confused. I also noticed on your posts you kept saying what a bloddy shame it was for Unit 19.

IF you are not against rifles why do you call the Unit 19 Rifle season "slaughter".

NOW THAT is exactly the response from a bowhunter and is BS. You are NO muzzleloader, you are a bowhunter or you would have given this up long ago.

YOU are SO FOS!!!

ChasL 8 years, 1 month ago

Clinton public land in unit 19. I could really careless about private ground in this unit. Once again see my first post, is it really that hard or are you just that bitter?

Not KS Chas, he lives west of Glen Elder while I'm a resident of unit 19, so once again your wrong. You just know bits and pieces, Internet chatter doesn't give you the KBA's stance on issues.

So did you belong to the KBA and then get pissed off because they didn't buy your "my way is the only way" attitude, did they not move fast enough or in a different direction than you wanted. I mean you don't come by this kind of hatred naturally, did a member piss in your Wheaties?

I think the 1 tag is a great idea, it's what I do right now(though I haven't bowhunted in about 5 years). I don't think the KBA thinks much of it, but that's their problem.

Not for the other idea.

"IF you are not against rifles why do you call the Unit 19 Rifle season "slaughter".

Because it's a fraud, Clinton deer have nothing to do with I-70. So to me these deer are harvested under false pretense.

"NOW THAT is exactly the response from a bowhunter and is BS. You are NO muzzleloader, you are a bowhunter or you would have given this up long ago."

Looking at my Muzzleloader tag right now, once again you don't know as much as you think. Filled my primary tag last year with my .243, a nice doe..........yes I took a doe with my Either sex rifle tag. I bowhunted from about 79 to 2001, hurt my shoulder and haven't bow hunted since..........I'm also very content with the length and timing of ML and rifle season. Now who's FOS. Any more half truths you'd like to spew.

Want my bet? If ya do get a longer season, I bet it ain't going to be closer to the rut. Bet?? The powers to be are changing..........KOA, Hayden (at least Jennison is out for a bit). Money rules and Big Bucks make them big bucks so they won't risk having a herd that looks like MO's............they have guns in the rut. KS and it's deer are in every hunting rag you pick up, you honestly believe they'll screw with that!

I've never completely agreed with anybody, but right now I'm cool with the way things are.............I still get to get out and hunt. Been teaching the kid to squirrel hunt, life is good:^P

ChasL 8 years, 1 month ago

Marion, please tell my .54 that is supposed to be one of the most accurate around,hehe.

Had an in-line at one time but just didn't feel right with it in a "primitive" season. Sidelocks, patched roundballs, and the sight and smell of real blackpowder(Goex fff).

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