Archive for Tuesday, November 14, 2006

A new round for the SLT

Federal agency takes testimony on controversial road

November 14, 2006

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Lawrence residents should be well warmed up for this one: A federal agency is seeking comment on whether the controversial South Lawrence Trafficway should be built through the Baker Wetlands or south of the Wakarusa River.

The Federal Highway Administration on Tuesday released a draft report that said those two options continue to be the most likely route for the eastern leg of the bypass connecting the Kansas Turnpike west of Lawrence with Kansas Highway 10 east of the city. The western nine miles of the road are finished and open, but the eastern third remains only in the planning stage.

Now, the federal agency just has to decide which route it is willing to issue a permit for to allow the long-stalled project to move forward.

"We want to get the public's input into the decision," said Wendall Meyer, an assistant division administrator for the agency, who said past calls for such comments easily have generated more than 500 letters from supporters and opponents of the long-talked-about road.

The most recent report - called a Draft 4(f) Evaluation - doesn't make a recommendation on which route the road should follow. But the report does include several comments that are friendly to arguments made by supporters of the wetlands route, also known as a 32nd Street alignment.

Wetlands 'buffer'

Specifically, the report says the 32nd Street route - even though it would allow a road to go through the wetlands - would do more to protect the wetlands than the southern route along a 42nd Street alignment.

That's because Federal Highway Administration officials contend the south-of-the-river route would spur significant amounts of new growth south of the Wakarusa River. That growth would create more traffic along the edges of the wetlands, which are bordered by Haskell Avenue on the east, Louisiana Street on the west and 31st Street on the north.

The 32nd Street option would attempt to mitigate those traffic issues by creating a buffer area around the wetlands. The 32nd Street option proposes moving Louisiana Street about 2,500 feet west of its current location, and would relocate Haskell Avenue about 1,000 feet east of its current location. The buffer area would contain manmade wetlands that would be permanently protected from development.

The Kansas Department of Transportation, which is pushing for the 32nd Street route, has not made any plans to provide such mitigation efforts if a 42nd Street route is chosen for the project.

"The mitigation package has been almost completely overlooked by the public," Douglas County Commissioner Bob Johnson said. "I've felt like once people really look at that, they would realize it makes all the sense in the world to support the 32nd Street alignment."

Boulevard option

Opponents of the 32nd Street route, though, said federal regulators need to recognize the wetlands' significance to the community.

"For many, many people in town that area is very important," City Commissioner Boog Highberger said. "It would be an affront to half the people in this town to build a road through it."

Highberger said he hopes Federal Highway Administration officials can be convinced to support a south-of-the-river option, but he doesn't support the current southern option that is being considered.

The proposed southern route, called 42nd Street, would be built about 2,000 feet north of the existing North 1100 Road. It would be a freeway-style road with just three interchanges.

Highberger thinks a "high-capacity boulevard" with at-grade intersections and traffic signals should be built on either the existing right of way of North 1100 Road or North 1000 Road.

Using existing right of way would be more environmentally friendly and would help control costs, he said. And building a boulevard-style road would better serve the needs of the city, Highberger said, because a freeway-style road would act like a "Berlin Wall" to separate the northern and southern parts of the city.

Johnson said a boulevard road might serve the city well but would be poor at moving regional traffic around the city. That would be a problem, he said, because that's one of the major goals of KDOT, which would be the major funding source for the road.





Public comments

Members of the public have until Jan. 5 to submit written comments on the South Lawrence Trafficway route. Comments can be sent to Wendall L. Meyer, assistant division administrator, Federal Highway Administration Kansas Division Office, 6111 S.W. 29th St., Topeka 66614. The agency also will have an open house to discuss the report from 10 a.m. to 7 p.m. Dec. 14 at the Kansas National Guard Armory, 200 Iowa. Copies of the report can be viewed on the Internet at www.ksdot.org/projects/search.asp. The report also is available for viewing at the Lawrence Public Library, 707 Vt. The agency is expected to make a final decision on a route in the spring or early summer. In addition to the 4(f) report, the agency is working on releasing an Environmental Impact Statement for the project. The U.S. Army Corps of Engineers previously approved a 32nd Street route for the trafficway, but the Federal Highway Administration must review the project if the state plans to use any federal funds to build the road.

Comments

jonas 11 years, 6 months ago

"Posted by Bowhunter99 (anonymous) on November 15, 2006 at 5:33 a.m. (Suggest removal)

32nd street.

Do it soon and we can stop talking about IT and 23rd street. Both of the issues will go away."

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Yeah right. For 4 to 5 years, maybe.

lunacydetector 11 years, 6 months ago

the ONLY people who want the 42nd street alignment don't drive cars - they ride bicycles. that makes up about 1/2 of 1% of the lawrence population. now, factor how much money is spent on bike paths/bike lanes/bike carriers on the MT bus/keeping the SLT in court - it's easy to do the cost / benefit analysis. too much burden on too many people for the benefit of very few. even houses cost more because of the required bicycle lanes for new residential developments - thanks bike riders.

the ironic thing is used spandex has been found to be a non-biodegradeable hazardous waste. worse than styrofoam or diapers.

The_Voice_of_Reason 11 years, 6 months ago

Ding!! Round 4,968! Just build some kind of bypass. I support the 32nd st idea but I really just don't care that much anymore as long as something can be done to help traffic...

Richard Heckler 11 years, 6 months ago

The SOR plan:

*Avoids impacts on wetlands

*Meets Regional Transportation Needs

*Recognizes little can done for 23rd Street Congestion due to hundreds of new homes in the area

*Eliminates plans for building an obsolete trafficway PLUS an SOR bypass. Due to planned growth this concept was introduced approximately 18 months ago by former County Commissioner Louis McElheney in the presence of county commissioners and members of the public. In the interest of prudent spending let's build only one bypass.

*Commissioner Highberger suggesting a boulevard plan also seems prudent. 1000rd and 1100 rd both will come before taxpayers for improvements to accomodate planned development. Let's improve one of them and provide a bypass at the same time. One or both of those roads run non stop to county road 1057/1900rd thus connects to the existing 1057/K10 interchange. The bridge to nowwhere is approximately 1 mile or two minutes from 1000 rd. This plan is a tax dollar savings concept yet provides an avenue out around Lawrence. Great idea and makes use of existing right of way resources.... Thanks Commissioner Boog Highberger.

Richard Heckler 11 years, 6 months ago

Why spend tax dollars to construct a wetland considering Douglas County currently owns one in that area?

Wetlands function as natural sponges that trap and slowly release surface water, rain, snowmelt, groundwater and flood waters. Trees, root mats, and other wetland vegetation also slow the speed of flood waters and distribute them more slowly over the floodplain. This combined water storage an braking action lowers flood heights and reduces erosion. Wetlands within and downstream of urban areas are particularly valuable, counteracting the greatly increased rate and volume of surface- water runoff from pavement and buildings. The holding capacity of wetlands helps control floods and prevents water logging of crops. Preserving and restoring wetlands, together with other water retention, can often provide the level of flood control otherwise provided by expensive dredge operations and levees( millions of dollars more). The bottomland hardwood- riparian wetlands along the Mississippi River once stored at least 60 days of floodwater. Now they store only 12 days because most have been filled or drained. Reference: U.S. Environmental Protection Agency. 1995b. America's wetlands: Our vital link between land and water. Office of Water, Office of Wetlands, Oceans and Watersheds. EPA843-K-95-001.

CardsFan 11 years, 6 months ago

Ok having talked to several family members that use to live where they want to build the 32nd street SLT I have found out that 1. Baker has given permission to build through the wetlands. 2. 99% of the land has already been bought and 3. Most people that live that way agree with this route, Fedral highway dept. is even going to add more wetlands on the westside of Louisanna. How many more millions is it going to take to do studies? The tax payers have spent enough on research time to build the darn thing. And not everyone would travel from west to east, my wife travels the oppisite every day

conservative 11 years, 6 months ago

Build it one way or the other and quickly. I prefer the 32nd because it costs significantly less, but it won't bother me if it goes South.

Stage 2 needs to be to add a connection to 6th street from K-10. Use the same interchange that will connect K-10 to the bypass. That will allow much less traffic on 23rd and make it easier to get to Northern portions of Lawrence.

topflight 11 years, 6 months ago

"For many, many people in town that area is very important," City Commissioner Boog Highberger said. "It would be an affront to half the people in this town to build a road through it."

 Was Boog "High"berger stoned when he made that comment. Boog, put down the hippy lettuce and listen to the majority. Over half the people in the town of Lawrence could really give 2 craps about that cess pool of a swamp.

Dixie Jones 11 years, 6 months ago

oh my lands (no pun intended) just finish the god forsaken thing....

Sigmund 11 years, 6 months ago

I too love all the cut and paste canned responses from merrill. They are as entertaining now as they were the first dozen times.

Richard Heckler 11 years, 6 months ago

1985--The Chamber of Commerce Transportation Committee,county commissioners,developers and other interested parties convened a non public meeting to discuss a different plan over and above the recommended SOR route thus the obsolete trafficway plan. In 1971 the State Highway Commission recommended a BYPASS for Lawrence NOT a trafficway to be built south of the Wakie river with absolutely no effect on the wetlands. The bypass is far more practical for future highway demands. Douglas County needs a bypass NOT a trafficway. Here is what I would propose: Why not agree on a south-of-the-river bypass and forget the obsolete trafficway concept? Spend tax dollars on a more practical application. Introduce appropriate plans designed to meet future needs, a plan that could bring Johnson, Douglas and Leavenworth counties together as partners. This requires bridges across the river. All three counties would benefit, thus would assist funding the project. Then, turn the entire road project over to the Kansas Turnpike Authority. A south-of-the-river route would join County Road 1057 and Kansas Highway 10 to carry traffic north to Interstate 70 by way of I-70 connectors meeting a Tonganoxie turnpike interchange. This concept accomplishes many things. It services: ¢ Johnson and Douglas counties' traffic going to northwest Lawrence or Topeka. ¢ the Eudora Business Park east of 1057. ¢ East Hills Business Park and the southeast Lawrence industrial park. ¢ the Lawrence airport. And it: ¢ diverts traffic around the city. ¢ keeps the SLT out of the wetlands. ¢ reduces congestion for morning and afternoon commuters. ¢ might save Douglas County taxpayers millions of dollars. ¢ is a practical and prudent use of tax dollars. ¢ eliminates the need for an eastern bypass. ¢ eliminates much large truck traffic on 23rd Street. ¢ allows KTA fees to pay for the highway and the maintenance. Building a road through the wetlands at any cost at this point in time is simply not prudent use of Douglas County tax dollars. Considering that the two lane western leg opened at a cost of $52,000,000(million) taxpayers cannot afford a trafficway and a bypass which is on the table. As taxpayers doing the right thing the first time is all taxpaying citizens can afford. Build a bypass.

Jake Esau 11 years, 6 months ago

Just build the 32nd street one already... we've waited long enough. If you send the road too far to the south, no one will use it.

spym00se 11 years, 6 months ago

There is already a street going through the wetlands, it's called 31st street. I'm as green as the next guy, but I think people hype the significance of the "wetlands". A lot of people say they care about it, but do they really? I don't. Finish the dang road.

Mkh 11 years, 6 months ago

Posted by Larzia (anonymous) on November 14, 2006 at 11:08 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"Just build the 32nd street one already... we've waited long enough. If you send the road too far to the south, no one will use it."

And why would people not use the bypass if it was south of 32nd? To me it makes no sense to have it at 32nd, are you suggesting that then no one would use 31st? Despite efforts from the "pro-growth" crowd to litter 31st and Iowa with big box stores, the street is still a significant trafficway on the south side of town, and provides easy transportation either east or west.

I think that the groups who desperately wants this trafficway are the truckers and the businesses who utilize them, they are looking for a direct route from Topeka to the factory outlet wasteland of south KC.

The idea that a 32nd st. route will relieve traffic on 23rd is ridiculous. For this logic to work you'd have to assume that the majority of people north of 23rd will drive all the way to 32nd street and then east to get to KC. I don't think so.

Do you honestly want to destroy the Baker Wetlands so we can get to Overland Park 5-10 minutes faster? Are we really that needy? Think about it for a minute.

If the bypass was placed south of 32nd st. it would provide easy transportation for those trying to completely by-pass Lawrence (i.e. the truckers), and it would relieve traffic from those who live south of town or southwest Lawrence.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 11 years, 6 months ago

I hope this drags on and on. It creates such an opportunity for the braindead that inhabit this forum for making petty and childish plays on Highberger's name.

The entertainment value is just too great to give up.

nuclearhawk 11 years, 6 months ago

More fuel to the arguement that Highberger has to go come election time. He has made too many comments without any facts to back them up. "Half the people" give me a break. If it were put on a ballot the vocal minority at Haskell and the wetlands supporters would fail miserably. Merril, you need to get a life. Your entire life consists of writing misleading blogs and stirring up controversy with lies and gross exagerations of the truth. Certainly an obvious supporter of our NO growth three city commissioners who are slowly destroying so much of the community through personal agendas.

The trafficway needs built on 32nd. I love the outdoors, but have never visited the wetlands here. It looks like a swamp to me. I am looking forward to a developed wetlands that can bring in much more wildlife and visitors. One that will become much larger and sustainable that the swamp we currently have.

BrianR 11 years, 6 months ago

If they build south of the river, maybe they can put another Wal-Mart out there?!?

Face it, a new Wal-Mart on 31st or 32nd alignments is just too close to the existing Wal-Mart.

Bud Stagg 11 years, 6 months ago

A boulevard? That's forward thinking. Why not build a gravel road instead. For the idiots who are worried about people north of 23rd using it, it's people west of Kasold that will use it. And it will save 20-30 minutes not 5-10. It takes 20-30 minutes to get from the west side of town to the east. Unless you take the turnpike, which is just like the SLT.

Either route will do damage, but it is very neccesary. GET ON WITH IT!

jhawkrawk 11 years, 6 months ago

I was a child when I first heard about a bypass, now my children have grown up hearing about this. Two generations, several ideas, hundreds of wrecks (one that was almost tragic for my own family), and thousands (if not millions) of "research" dollars later, and I still cannot make safe left hand turns from my neighborhood. Can't we all just get along, allow the traffic to keep moving, and make Lawrence a safer town for it's citizens? BUILD THE BYPASS!

blessed3x 11 years, 6 months ago

"Highberger thinks a "high-capacity boulevard" with at-grade intersections and traffic signals should be built on either the existing right of way of North 1100 Road or North 1000 Road."

My God, hasn't anyone learned any lessons from the deaths on HWY 59? AT-GRADE INTERSECTIONS ON HIGH VOLUME/HIGH SPEED ROADWAYS REGARDLESS OF SIGNALS OR STOP CONTROL ARE DANGEROUS!!!!!!!

Whatever is done, for crying out loud do it right the first time. Don't give us some slapped together piece of crap that will just need re-designed in 3 years.

Bruce Rist 11 years, 6 months ago

I'm not trying to be a wise guy here, but why does Haskell get so upset when the threat of the highway goes through the BAKER wetlands. It's not the Haskell wetlands. Right? I realize it's just south of the HINU. Do they just not want whitey telling them what to do?

janeb 11 years, 6 months ago

Now there is the contention. All the wetlans once belonged to baker, but KU stole them through a series of illegal acts and subsequently sold off to Baker.

blessed3x 11 years, 6 months ago

takeastand, they claim that:

  1. Baker swindled them out of the land

  2. The wetlands are a sacred burial ground, even though experts with ground penetrating radar could find no evidence of such.

  3. The new SLT route will not accomodate an indian-owned and operated casino.

(Okay, I just threw in #3 to piss people off.)

preebo 11 years, 6 months ago

Building this trafficway will not address the real issue which is uncontrolled growth in Lawrence. Say you build the thing and ten years down the road traffic is still congested as it is today? What's next build more road to thin out the herd? The real issue here is population growth. Lawrence needs to adopt the Blue Line Laws that Boulder, Colorado has in place that halt growth within city limits and slow growth on the immediate fringes. This is the only way to truly deal with this sprawl issue. If you don't this will continue and citizens with suffer, wildlife will suffer and ecosystems will suffer. They may not concern your immediate needs, but they do facilitate your long term existance. Without open space and natural areas we might as well all move to Southern California.

clarkentsman 11 years, 6 months ago

preebo, I think if you check that you will find that the average price of a home in Boulder is more than $450.000.

Stop growth here and the prices will not go down!

jonas 11 years, 6 months ago

Perhaps we need to simply admit that there is no solution. No solution but universally-adaptive plague, that is!

Bring on the Walkin' Dude.

Jackalope 11 years, 6 months ago

Just build the darned thing! Get it over with! You could have built it ten years ago in the original place for a fraction of the cost of today. If you want to build it on worthless land you should have planned it to go right through the middle of the KU school of social welfare or city hall. Let them all move and commiserate in some local coffee mug. All they do is just talk anyway. So, JUST BUILD IT ALREADY......!!!!

Lonestar1 11 years, 6 months ago

Build it already, 32nd street alignment. This has been dragging on for years, it came up for a vote, was approved by the majority of the voters, then blocked again in the courts etc. It seems to be recreation for generations of students that come here to attend school,fight the bypass, then leave. And I too am as green as the next person, although if Sierra Club and Audobon find out I support this I guess I'll be out. Seriously the 32nd street route would do the least damage and the remediation that is on the table won't be offered forever. Lawrence has grown too much not to need the bypass.

conservative 11 years, 6 months ago

one_time,

and who paid for this study? What was their agenda?

I know of a number of people who live west of Kasold who would use the bypass every time they go to KC. Since they currently use 23rd when they go to KC looks like a reduction in 23rd street traffic to me.

Heck I know several who live west and work in the East Hills business park that would use it to commute to work so that they could avoid the mess that is 23rd.

nuclearhawk 11 years, 6 months ago

I will never understand the ignorance of so many. The bypass is busy now and has been for some time. one_time....have you ever driven on the bypass. When complete it will be even busier and will not empty 23rd street, but will provide relief. The relief will also be provided for residential 27th street and Kasold-31st-Haskell.

Please list these studies you refer to. I have yet to see an authentic study. "All" studies, give me a break.

What study suggests timing stoplights down 23rd? With the traffic volumes on 23rd it is not feasible.

Maybe we should go ahead and elevate 23rd and make it a through street and forget the stoplights and turns. Possibly make it two tier.

Spades 11 years, 6 months ago

So the city and government want public opinion... up to this point in the responses, it would seem that there is about a 75-25 percent vote (with a 5% error, of course) for moving forward with 32nd street. THE PUBLIC HAS SPOKEN!

Travis Shinkle 11 years, 6 months ago

"...Highberger thinks a "high-capacity boulevard" with at-grade intersections and traffic signals..."

Bad idea. What that'll create is a fast-moving street with plenty of traffic accidents. Besides, if that's his great idea why don't they just do that to 31st Street and forget the SLT...?

"...The SLT will provide a southern bypass route for east/west bound traffic around lawrence. NOT RELIEVE 23RD STREET TRAFFIC..."

Sure it will. If the existing roads are packed, people will find roads that are available, even if they have to drive out of their way to use them.

What else can one say? This 20+ year fight is the direct result of the members of the People's Republic of Lawrence versus the average folks who'd just like to have their infrastructure work...

nuclearhawk 11 years, 6 months ago

The elevated 23rd is in jest to those, such as one_time, thinking we do not need a bypass to eleviate city street congestion. The suggestions is as absurd as their thoughts.

Sandman 11 years, 6 months ago

Just about a wreck a day on 23rd Street. Some involve injuries. This endangers our families!

Build the SLT - do it for our children's safety.

rollcar 11 years, 6 months ago

There are a lot of Lawrence residents (myself included) that live on the west side of Lawrence and commute to the Overland Park/Kansas City area via K10. And you're telling me that the SLT wouldn't reduce traffic on 23rd Street? Please. How do you think we are getting to K10 from West Lawrence now?

Richard Heckler 11 years, 6 months ago

Why not put it to a vote? Neither city, county nor federal officials thought it would have any bearing on the final decision. In 1971 the State Highway Commission recommended a BYPASS for Lawrence NOT a trafficway to be built south of the Wakie river with absolutely no effect on the wetlands.

When I speak of SOR that is not 42nd street. 42nd street still cuts into the wetlands A conversation I had with an HNTB staff person implied keeping any road completely out of the wetlands or any flood prone area would be less expensive due to fewer bridges and elevated roads. Connecting this to K10/1057 instead of going by way of Noria Rd has not been presented for what reason I do not know.

A bypass is a highway that avoids (passes by) a built-up area, town, or village, to let through traffic flow without interference from local traffic, to reduce congestion in the built-up area, and to improve road safety. A trafficway does not accomplish this feat.

kujeeper 11 years, 6 months ago

Boog is dillusional.... This man should not be in an office of authority of any kind. The Berlin wall....Please! Build it on 32nd street and vote the Booger out of city hall!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Steve Mechels 11 years, 6 months ago

I still think with the projected growth of Lawrence, south of the river bypass makes the most sense. A 32nd street bypass will quickly become as busy as 23rd street with projected growth to the south. At any rate, I just wish they would hurry up and get it done one way or another. I drvie 31st and Haskell everyday (I live near Prairie Park and work in Topeka) and it is a royal pain. The truck traffic is unbelievable as they are all trying to avoid 23rd on the way to K-10.

Dobler 11 years, 6 months ago

'Do you honestly want to destroy the Baker Wetlands so we can get to Overland Park 5-10 minutes faster? Are we really that needy? Think about it for a minute.'

Errr, yes we are that needy so just complete the road so those of us that live on the West side of town can save 5-10 minutes!!

mom_of_three 11 years, 6 months ago

How is the new plan going to affect the houses and the school in the Prairie Park area?

roger_o_thornhill 11 years, 6 months ago

Build suspension bridge over wetland area. Quit spending money on lawyers and consultants.

ranger73 11 years, 6 months ago

Pave it and put a parking lot there-then you won't have to worry about it, and you can still have your wetlands when it rains.
Just build the stupid thing already. I think enough money has been wasted on studies.

armyguy 11 years, 6 months ago

Mom, I live a couple of blocks from the school in Prairie Park. I would think it would be a good thing. La St. is very congested with kids walking to and from school and traffic on La St. trying to bypass 23ed to 31st or the west part of the SLT

Richard Heckler 11 years, 6 months ago

When the 59 super highway is completed the SLT will be a congested mess so take the big trucks on a bypass out around the city.

DaREEKKU 11 years, 6 months ago

I think we should buldoze Wal-mart and build the trafficway right through there. Then they can build the Wal-Mart on the west side of town (only having one). There, kill two birds with one stone.

Sandman 11 years, 6 months ago

I think a lot of people do what "off to the right" suggests - they use residential streets as passageways.

Like using 27th Street between Louisiana and Iowa. Or 19th Street from Iowa to Harper.

This endangers the kids of people who live on those streets.

Build the SLT - for the children.

feeble 11 years, 6 months ago

There are a lot of Lawrence residents (myself included) that live on the west side of Lawrence and commute to the Overland Park/Kansas City area via K10. And you're telling me that the SLT wouldn't reduce traffic on 23rd Street? Please. How do you think we are getting to K10 from West Lawrence now?

Uh, Iowa to 31st and then down to Haskell? If you're driving between Iowa and Haskell on 23rd for anything other than "retail" purposes, you aren't using you head.

The smart move would've been to just move to OP, since
living expenses are substantially less than they are in Larry.

You have my condolences.

Richard Heckler 11 years, 6 months ago

The Comm Highberger boulevard concept has another plus. A 1000 rd Boulevard takes you directly to JOCO. I believe JOCO is improving their share of that road soon.

FredGarvin_MP 11 years, 6 months ago

Unfortunately the best alignment that used the least amount of Right of Way and improved the drainage into the so called wetlands, was the 31st Street route.

Richard Ballard 11 years, 6 months ago

But, the 31st. street route might dig up Haskel's old Haz-Mat Dump on the north side of the road on that "Sacred" land.

Little wonder they oppose it so strongly. They would have a super-fund cleanup site on their hands if someone with a 40 year memory would come forward and admit it.

It's probably glow-in-the-dark Haz-Mat fumes that people see out there, not dead Indian Spirits.

rcmodel

white_mountain 11 years, 6 months ago

Has anyone considered the effect of disturbing the ancestors?

This is sacred ground to many people.

Ace_Ventura 11 years, 6 months ago

Build the dang road like it sopose to be built. The wetland area is useless.

junco_partner 11 years, 6 months ago

Build it...

Not for me but for others.... It's to late for me... We've had it.... We are moving out of Douglas county... Nothing ever gets done here due to all the bickering.

FredGarvin_MP 11 years, 6 months ago

Can you imagine what they'll dig up on US-59 to Ottawa? It might never get built either.

Bone777 11 years, 6 months ago

As a kid I used to hike around all over that side of the Haskell campus. We would find what we called "Indian Forts"(small, secluded area scattered with beer cans and wine bottles.) It wasn't until talk about building the SLT started, that Haskell started moving towards 31st street. They put a sweat lodge and some other artifacts for religious purposes along that south fence line. I just think it is kind of interesting that that area never got any interest when I was a kid and now it is so vital.

StirrrThePot 11 years, 6 months ago

I saw a bumper sticker the other day that read:

"Lawrence: 27 square miles of reality surrounded by Kansas."

Oh...good...grief...you have to be kidding right? This never-ending saga of the SLT is just further proof that this town is nowhere near reality.

Oh yeah, and BUILD THE DARN SLT!!!

dacs23 11 years, 6 months ago

42 street. I don't want this thing in my back yard. Plus it will go to the new water treatment plant on the south side of the river.... which again I don't want in my back yard but what can you do.

conservative 11 years, 6 months ago

feeble,

What are you smoking? It'd take less time for west commuters to drive a mile to the south, navigate 31st with the heavily congested 4 way stops (god did I just make an argument for roundabouts?) and then drive a mile North again? 23rd street is slow, but not quite that slow. YET!

Would be quicker if they could go a mile South, merge onto a highway, and do 65 till the interchange where they merge with K-10 however.

afred 11 years, 6 months ago

i'm sick and tired of seeing modern society relentlessly chewing through the umbilical chord to which it is attached to mother nature -- all the while muttering, through gold-plated, bloodstained teeth, "progress", "progress", "progress".

Save the damn wetlands.

Not because they play a piviotal to the survival of our ecosystem - they do not.

Not because they are a beautiful swampscape of rare birds, reptiles, fish and amphibians - they are not, most people just see a swamp.

Not because some indians may or may not have been burried there long ago.

And for SURE, not because we might be able to find a more economically viable solution - although sadly this is probably the only way it will happen.

Save them just for the sake of saving them.

Save them because we never save a goddam thing.

Save them because, out of everthing that we take from nature, we never give a damn thing back, except an unhealthy dose of ecological imbalance. And rarely do we refrain from raping her outright. (all in the name of progress).

Why not let this be one of those rare instances? Why not try setting a good precedent for once? A healthier precedent? One that says, however meekly, that we really are working for a more sustainable future, one that accounts for nature as a symbiotic partner, instead of discounting her as an impedence toward, you guessed it, "progress".

ohjayhawk 11 years, 6 months ago

All it takes to get something on the ballot for a vote is enough signatures on a petition by the required date. The city I live in just had two issues on the ballot that the councilpeople were making a mess of, and both ballots passed. Elected officials are supposed to be in office to do the duty of their constituents. It sounds like the only problem in this case is finding wording that would get a majority of people to vote for it.

Lonestar1 11 years, 6 months ago

It WAS on the ballot years ago and passed by a pretty fair margin, I don't remember the percentage, but it was obvious the people wanted it built. And it needs to be a bypass, no high speed curb cuts. There won't be any need for curb cuts if the wetlands are left south of 32nd street. I would predict if it does go on the ballot again, it will pass, again, and we still won't be able to drive around Lawrence. I work in town, but like to go to KC to shop, but that's a whole 'nother issue.

junco_partner 11 years, 6 months ago

Quote Bye: Ace_Ventura

"Build the dang road like it sopose to be built. The wetland area is useless."

You are wrong - Its great for breeding disease carrying mosquito's just a 1/2 mile south of a school and residential area

conservative 11 years, 6 months ago

afred,

The current wetlands were created in the last century.

If the proposed 32nd street route is approved then additional wetlands will be created (and protected).

A vote for 32nd street defends exactly what you're saying.

SpeedRacer 11 years, 6 months ago

Your right that it was on the ballot, Lonestar. From the LJW:

"1990 After fighting off a lawsuit that would have required a countywide vote, officials agree to put the issue on a ballot anyway. County residents vote 13,679-10,815 to appove $4 million in bonds for the trafficway."

The city has grown significantly since then, and I think there would be a much greater margin in the vote.

white_mountain 11 years, 6 months ago

well all I'm saying is, there might be unforeseen consequences that nobody's even mentioning.

probably best not to disturb the ancestors. some people believe no one is even buried there, but why run the risk??

white_mountain 11 years, 6 months ago

there could be a curse put on the town is what I'm trying to say.

junco_partner 11 years, 6 months ago

Quote by white_mountain:

"there could be a curse put on the town is what I'm trying to say."

That's right, you all remember what happened to Topeka when they built the water tower on Burnett's mound!

afred 11 years, 6 months ago

conservative,

it was re-made within the last century after it was destroyed the first time. by progress of course.

meburr 11 years, 6 months ago

Hey Highberger - of the 100 posts here, merrill is your only supporter?! Maybe they are one in the same???

BUILD IT!

Richard Heckler 11 years, 6 months ago

" offtotheright (anonymous) on November 15, 2006 at 9:04 a.m. (Suggest removal) I would like to know where this money tree is growing!"

Excellent question.

Remember if this ever gets built the cost of 23rd street maintenance becomes a total city responsibility. One more thing green space does not become a taxpayer liability until it's covered with roadways or buildings.

It does seem like we're getting around without a trafficway or bypass and people continue to move into this city. This would likely not be an issue if land speculators had not purchased property along the way. Building anything in a flood plain cost too much money.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 11 years, 6 months ago

"the only problem in this case is finding wording that would get a majority of people to vote for it."

If you want the 32nd route, just word it exactly for what it would be:

"Let's just screw the Indians one more time (well, at least one more time.)"

rhd99 11 years, 6 months ago

HOW MANY times does it require for meetings before SLT is FINALLY built? Wake up, little politicians, & get your heads out of Fairy Tale Land. You wasted our money long enough. PACK IT UP. Your through! The SLT is DEAD!

Mkh 11 years, 6 months ago

Posted by Dobler (anonymous) on November 15, 2006 at 9:52 a.m. (Suggest removal) mkh's question: 'Do you honestly want to destroy the Baker Wetlands so we can get to Overland Park 5-10 minutes faster? Are we really that needy? Think about it for a minute.' Dobler: "Errr, yes we are that needy so just complete the road so those of us that live on the West side of town can save 5-10 minutes!!"

I'm really sad to hear that Dobler, Well folks, this is what its come to...arriving in Johnson County is the most important agenda of our neighbors.

This really has nothing to do with SLT, this is really about the mindset of 21st Century American. We now seem to have universal contempt for Nature in favor of our instant gratification, technology addled society where no one should have to wait for anything they want.

"Gimme Gimme Now!" "Mommy how much longer till we get to Oak Park mall to go shopping?" "Gee if I get to work ten minutes faster, thats more productivity for the company which will help the bottom line"
Thanks to the death of the novel and 'quick cut' editing we can no longer sit in a car for longer than 30 minutes. I can't help but have the opening scene from "the Player" going in my head. I wonder what Orson Wells would have to say about this.

Wait I just had a great idea, if you moved to Johnson County you wouldn't have to ever leave, plus they hate hippies too, its really a win win.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 11 years, 6 months ago

You forgot Dr. Boyd's main qualification for turning the Haskell Wetlands over to road construction-- the $8 million he'll get from the government for doing so.

conservative 11 years, 6 months ago

bozo,

You have evidence of this? Please provide it?

rollcar 11 years, 6 months ago

Mkh -

Spoken like a person who has one of the 20 available jobs in Lawrence. Believe it or not, there are those of us who have roots here and wouldn't want to live anywhere else, and would like nothing more than to find decent-paying jobs in this town.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 11 years, 6 months ago

It's hardly a secret, conservative. Baker would recieve $8 million to take part in the "mitigation" plans.

afred 11 years, 6 months ago

Das_Ubermime

I have no qualifications whatsoever, other than a respect for nature that, from reading these postings, I apparently share with few.

But I would be curious to see Dr. Boyd's take on the situation. I'd like to see a list of facts and figures to trump common sense. Maybe there's a spreadsheet or a memo or a P&L statement that could tell me how building a highway (how many lanes is it?) through the wetlands could somehow be more beneficial than just leaving them alone.

Does Dr. Boyd support building new wetlands? To me, building new wetlands is like punching somebody in the nose and then paying the hospital bill. Not much of a victory for the victim.

But seriously, if you know WHY he supports it, then let us know.

irnmadn88 11 years, 6 months ago

Hmmm...complete K-10 to I-70 around the south side of Lawrence...

Maybe connect the Farmer's Turnpike to Tee Pee Junction?

Why not just build the Eastern Pork Way too and then Lawrence could have its Ring Road?

conservative 11 years, 6 months ago

Bozo,

Ok, the school is getting money to compensate for the land. That happens whenever the government takes land.

But you said that Dr. Boyd was getting 8 million to go along with it. You didn't say it was going to the school you said "the $8 million he'll get from the government for doing so".

But since we all know that you have no interest in discussion and only in fanning the flames of conflict on the board we'll all just continue to ignore you.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 11 years, 6 months ago

The $8 million will be under Boyd's control. That doesn't mean that it'll go directly into his personal checking account, but it's a very clear conflict of interest.

Sorry if that's inconvenient to your position, conservative, but there it is.

BabyJay13 11 years, 6 months ago

Just quit posting your stupid links.. .. this is the BAKER WETLANDS and it is not your decision anymore or the city's decsion. It is in the state's hands now, and for god sakes just build the road.

Kcwarpony you need to just get over it, we are tired of hearing your comments about how you don't approve of it. Did you see the poll included in this article? 67% of the people that voted want it finished. It is not going to hurt the wetlands, it could actually benefit them.

Get over it people!

Dobler 11 years, 6 months ago

"This really has nothing to do with SLT, this is really about the mindset of 21st Century American."

Assuming we are all 21st Century Americans eh!!

Seriously though, why on earth are you defending a swamp...have you nothing better to do?

afred 11 years, 6 months ago

Mkh

amen. you got it. bottom line, bottom line.

drive my suv 75mph to my accounting firm located in the bleached khaki shorts of the k.c. suburbs, nestled cozily between a Curves, and an Outback Steakhouse.

drive home a little faster to catch three hours of reality tv in my tan townhouse house that looks just like my neighbor's. better mow the lawn first though, othewise the neighborhood association will be all over my ass.

quite a dream we have here in this america. no room for wetlands.

Mkh 11 years, 6 months ago

Posted by rollcar (anonymous) on November 15, 2006 at 1:48 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Mkh -

"Spoken like a person who has one of the 20 available jobs in Lawrence. Believe it or not, there are those of us who have roots here and wouldn't want to live anywhere else, and would like nothing more than to find decent-paying jobs in this town"

I have to travel to KC a few times a week to work like a lot of folks do rollcar. I've lived here 26 years so I have a few roots, and yes I would love for Lawerence to be able to provide enough jobs for all its citizens.

But what they heck does that have to with destroying something valuable in nature to get to KC a few minutes faster? The bottom line here has not changed, I don't care why you got to go to KC, we all go to go places. I'm just questioning why so many people think they have to get there much Faster. It's a question about modern perceptions.

And the job issue in this town is not going to be resolved by the SLT. The job issue is about growth. Have you payed attention to who has been moving into Lawrence the last decade? Have you been out to the neighborhoods at the very west side of town? These rapidly expanding nieghborhoods are being filled with professionals. These people make a lot of money (which is fine) and many don't do it in Lawrence. Lawrence cannot support all of these professionals, we just don't have that kind of industry need. So they will continue to have to drive to KC or Topeka. I say let them get on at the end of town and take a "bypass" route around the wetlands.

And then yes rollbar we need to seriously address the job issues here for the folks that are not professionals but still cannot make a living in Lawrence.

Mkh 11 years, 6 months ago

Posted by Dobler (anonymous) on November 15, 2006 at 2 p.m "Seriously though, why on earth are you defending a swamp...have you nothing better to do?"

Dobler, Is it some how more noble to be defending a road made of concrete that doesn't even exist yet?

Mkh 11 years, 6 months ago

Exactly afred! I'm glad not all hope is lost for my neighbors!

Mkh 11 years, 6 months ago

Posted by blue73harley (anonymous) on November 15, 2006 at 2:22 "Do you support a 42nd St. alignment? Or are you one of the "Welcome-To-Lawrence-The-Answer-Is-No" crowd?"

blue I'd vote for a 42nd st. alignment (given the current options), that way we could get the trucks going completely around the city on their way to south KC. And yes I would be in favor of putting it to a vote, even though there is a good chance my side would lose.

Farmboy 11 years, 6 months ago

It's supposed to be bypass, right? 31 or 32 don't bypass anything, but will just tear up a thriving retail area. 23rd street was sort of a bypass once, and look what happened.

Bone777 11 years, 6 months ago

The SLT benefit of getting to KC faster is secondary to clearing up some of the 23rd street congestion.

I am much more interested in saving 15 minutes getting from Iowa to Don's Steakhouse than I am in saving 5-10 minutes getting to Overland Park.

Bone777 11 years, 6 months ago

Even the car-jackers know 23rd is way too congested. That's why they run all the way down Mass St. to get a car.

afred 11 years, 6 months ago

75x55,

relax. don't get so offended. just pointing out a stereotype that, for me, is easy to equate with those quickly willing to build highways through wetlands.

when i look a overland park, for instance, i see the word "temporary" everywhere. i can't help but think that the mindblowing pace of urban sprawl will have some pretty dire consequences in the future.

i can't help but think that the planners who plan them, the builders who build them, and the consumers who support them, are not looking much past their noses. but why should they have to? the money is right in front of their faces.

it just disturbs me that a majority of our population is so quick to replace something as precious as an ecosystem with something as shallow and completely utilitarian as a road; something living with something dead. and for what? money? time?

when you act on behalf of another's life (human or animal) or the quality thereof, it is an act of love.

when you act on behalf of money and/or time at the expense of life (human or animal) or the quality thereof, it is an act of greed.

Mkh 11 years, 6 months ago

Posted by 75x55 (anonymous) on November 15, 2006 at 2:15 p.m. "Have ya been downtown lately? Have ya seen all the 'bourgeois' chain/franchise businesses in the Larryness?

Wake up, darlings - the super cool place of your drug-addled '60s youth movement is gone, and probably never really was that close to the fantasy of memory."

Big loud LOL!!! Probably the funniest and perhaps best post yet! I'm not sure 75x55 even realizes how right they are. Yeah I've been downtown lately, I've been all over this town lately, hence my entire point being exemplified. You all have tried so hard over the last few decades to make us just like our big sis KC and now when you have it, you still scream to get there faster, faster, faster! I love it! I know that the old Lawrence is gone. Gone into the files of history. I accepted that years ago, and moved out to the hills of the Wakarusa Valley.
But at the same time I think this is why this issue cuts so deep, this is really the last big fight. After this what is going to left to protect? If the Wetlands go "It's All Over Now Baby Blue" for the old Lawrence crowd. There will be no foreseeable end to the growth and homogenized of the city. By the '20s it will be no different than anywhere else in the Midwest. I think that for the "old guard" of Lawrence, who watched the city be taken over, this is the final stand, this is Waterloo.

Spades 11 years, 6 months ago

Again, later in the day: from the responses here, it's about 75-80% for building at 32nd street, and 20-25% for not. THE PUBLIC HAS SPOKEN!

white_mountain 11 years, 6 months ago

Is it really worth saving 5 or 10 minutes on a commute when the cost is perhaps hundreds of native ancestors that just got woke up?

Would you pave over your grandparents' cemetery??

Spades 11 years, 6 months ago

Even the poll on the front page of the website... 67% for building at 32nd. That's a majority of the Lawrence population right there.

conservative 11 years, 6 months ago

white_mountain

What cemetary? There is no evidence of remains in the wetlands. The stories of the remains began only when there was talk of construction. If in fact there were remains in the area wouldn't they have objected when the plan was put forward to turn the area into a wetland?

Would you turn your grandparents' cemetary into a swamp?

Bone777 11 years, 6 months ago

white_mountain

I would say there was a better chance that the Indians would have buried their ancestors in a drier location, like the 42nd Street area.

It's final. I support the 32nd St. plan, so that the Indian burial grounds @ 42nd St are not disturbed. Thanks white-mountain!!!!

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 11 years, 6 months ago

What I understand is that this is all about power. The power of those whose need for convenience and government-subsidized development plans can't be allowed to be trumped by Indians or environmentalists.

They'll go through all kinds of gyrations, including building "new" wetlands (where wetlands have existed for thousands of years, although they have been relatively recently drained) just so they don't have to "give in" to hippies or Indians.

Those pesky Indians just make you see red, don't they?

white_mountain 11 years, 6 months ago

first of all, that swamp was not there when the ancestors were buried.

second, don't you even care about all the critters that are living in there right now?

those wetlands over there are home to some very wonderful things.. all to be destroyed just so someone can shave 5 minutes off their commute to their out-of-town job??

ranger73 11 years, 6 months ago

Why don't we just re-align the bypass to go thru Baldwin and along hwy 56-then the swamplands oops wetlands would be saved so all the mosquitoes will be free to breed, Haskell won't have to worry about what ever sacred ground is sacred, the traffice will bypass all of Lawrence so the kids will be safe and everyone will be happy- In fact, why don't we re-zone Lawrence for no traffic period, and outlaw all vehicles that are a have a combustion motor, then we will truly be a green city- in fact, we can get rid of indoor plumbing, so that way we don't need to have a new water treatment plant built And no more new housing or businesses either-use what is here or if they close tear it down-let it go back to natural rolling Kansas prairie. Oh no more electricity either-that costs too much anyway, and if you can't see you can't cause problems-no more high speed chases around here! Better yet-just get rid of all the people, so that elusive mountain lion can have his territory back and not be bothered by annoying scientists and nosy people trying to take pictures of him and disect his poo. The deer wouldn't have to worry about cars getting in there way when they are trying to get lucky, and all the little froggies in the wetlands won't have to worry about some road coming thru where they will get squished. I'm sure all you PETA nutters can get behind this-all the tree huggers too! Back to nature dammit! This can be a bipartisan thing too-we can bring in the military to surround the city, like a 50 mile radius to make sure no one violates the New Lawrence and impose strict government restrictions and sanctions for anyone who breaks the law!
Well, maybe we should study this first...

white_mountain 11 years, 6 months ago

I thought of one more thing too: that biosolids plant is located over there and you would have trucks hauling it on that high speed SLT road which could spell disaster.

Jay_Z 11 years, 6 months ago

I agree....build the damn SLT, 32nd route.....the swamp will still be there even if the SLT is built.

Kaw Pickinton 11 years, 6 months ago

BUILD THE SLT ALREADY! JUST DO IT SOMEWHERE ELSE!

"The ONLY people who want the 42nd street alignment don't drive cars - they ride bicycles. that makes up about 1/2 of 1% of the lawrence population."

I drive a car that runs on gas and I favor the 42nd street plan. Thus your comment is false.

"Again, later in the day: from the responses here, it's about 75-80% for building at 32nd street, and 20-25% for not. THE PUBLIC HAS SPOKEN!"

and

"Even the poll on the front page of the website... 67% for building at 32nd. That's a majority of the Lawrence population right there."

It says that, but "the public" (people who vote/comment on LJW.com) also had Ryun up by 30% at one point and still with a good lead despite the fact that he lost 63% to 36% here. Your e-poll data as so often the case here is full of sh, it. Holding to your logic, that means only 32% of the population wants it.

Sounds like a bunch of people with nothing better to do than comment on every f&#@ing article that comes up on this site. Many of you should find a new hobby, perhaps cycling like lunacydetector recommends.

But all of that aside, why can't we find a compromise of some sort? If the pro32 people could just give a little we would have a much needed road built.

/I WIN!

Richard Heckler 11 years, 6 months ago

Another tax dollar saving idea. Instead of building a bridge across the Wakie use 59 south(big dollar savings) instead to deliver drivers to the Boog 1000 rd Boulevard to 1057/K10 interchange or continue east into JOCO on the improved JOCO boulevard.

Truly Comm. Highberger has put some thought into this concept and saves Douglas County taxpayers some dough although some taxpayers appear not to care about how tax dollars are spent.

Richard Heckler 11 years, 6 months ago

Kawryan,

42nd street could work so long as none of it cuts into the wetlands. Take it straight east to 1057/K10 existing interchange. HNTB considered this concept but for some reason did not present it to the taxpayers. It would save some tax dollars.

The idea below could work for a 42nd street concept as well.

Another tax dollar saving idea. Instead of building a bridge across the Wakie use 59 south(big dollar savings) instead to deliver drivers to the 42nd street plan so long as none cuts into the wetlands.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 11 years, 6 months ago

"There is nothing there that does not also exist elsewhere in Douglas County."

True enough-- there's likely dead Indians all over this county as a result of its theft from the Indians who once lived here.

What's one more act of theft when pavement, convenience, feeding at the government trough and land speculation are at stake?

conservative 11 years, 6 months ago

Das,

Don't waste your time with bozo. He's not interested in debate or rational discourse. He is only interested in creating conflict.

thirdeye 11 years, 6 months ago

As was posted in the actual article, all of the data is up for public review.
http://www.southlawrencetrafficway.org/

It's frustrating to see people opposing this without researching.

I sometimes call myself a hippie, but to see people claiming to be one and then opposing this just because they heard it was going through the wetlands is frustrating. Read the information before you complain. If you care enough to be that vocal, then you care enough to read up on what you're being vocal about.

roger_o_thornhill 11 years, 6 months ago

Med. rail to the JO. Interconnect pub. transit. Busses. Rail in KCMO&JOCO. Plan for future. Not tomorrow, but the next day.

Mkh 11 years, 6 months ago

"Posted by thirdeye (anonymous) on November 16, 2006 at 12:37 p.m It's frustrating to see people opposing this without researching" "I sometimes call myself a hippie, but to see people claiming to be one and then opposing this just because they heard it was going through the wetlands is frustrating. Read the information before you complain. If you care enough to be that vocal, then you care enough to read up on what you're being vocal about."

ThirdEye aka "sometimes a hippie":

I Love it when people pull this tactic out. The old 'If you don't think the same way I do then you didn't do your research' attack.
Sorry thirdeye, but I've done my research and read the reports, only I have drawn Different Conclusions from them than you. Does this make my viewpoint ignorant and invalid, something that I'm not qualified to be vocal about? No. It means I think differently than you. Which is one of the great things about this country. Like I said, put it to a vote, my side will probably lose. But at least we can hopefully continue to exchange ideas and debate the issues from both sides until then. Both sides have valid points, I just really think its a matter of perception, about what people perceive to be their best interests. I would think you could understand this, you know, opening up that third eye to see the world a little different. Well each one of our "visions" are unique and beautiful.
So yes I realize I'm in the minority here in terms of Opinion. And New Lawrence (I just coined that) will get its trafficway along 32nd I'm sure. But before you all go speeding off down the pavement to the promise land, try and open up your mind, at least momentarily, to heed the advice of someone who thinks differently about the research. If you disagree then fine.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 11 years, 6 months ago

"Theft? How is it stealing when the people who own the land approve the measure?"

The land was Haskell's before it was Baker's, and it only became Baker's because the laws that would have prevented the transfer were ignored. But that just follows the tradition of creating whatever legal fiction is necessary to steal Indian lands.

And when $8 million was dangled in front of Baker, they more than gladly agreed to give up this natural laboratory in favor of paving it over (along with an undetermined number of Indian graves.)

"Don't waste your time with bozo. He's not interested in debate or rational discourse. He is only interested in creating conflict."

I didn't create this conflict. That was done by the movers and shakers who sat in secret, private meetings with the city and county commissioners more than twenty years ago and decided that it would be good for bidness if they crammed a highway through the wetlands, despite the fact that the bypass around Lawrence had long been planned to be south of the river.

thirdeye 11 years, 6 months ago

If you've read it MKH then that's great and even though many of the comments on here are yours there's a lot that aren't and are ignorant of the facts. Put it to a vote, sure but not to an uneducated public. How do you teach people? I don't know it's a completely different subject.

Oh, and people need to stop whining about bike paths. If you can afford a car and a house in a new area then you can afford to pay for those that can't afford such things. It's great that the city is supporting alternative transportation methods.

Mike Ford 11 years, 6 months ago

It's amazing to see all of the uninformed, uneducated and irresponsible comments made on this subject. I shouldn't be surprised, though. Most of you don't sound any different than your 19th century predecessors who forced the U.S. Government to legitimize your theft of our lands with treaties that have never been fully acknowledged anyway. And you want more. The connection to the land means nothing to you because you're not part of this land. Many European immigrants to America simply looked for land that looked like their homelands in Europe or Russia. The similarity said nothing for sacredness or religious connections to the lands in question that many missplaced Indigenous Peoples reflect to from places far away from their ancestral homes. They don't have the knowledge to the extent that their ancestors did because homogenization and distruction came in the form of people who manipulate nature for their own profit. This manipulation is in full swing as scientists like Dr. Boyd seek the exploitation of the wetlands for Baker University's prestige and image in student recruitment and endowment recruitment from all of the JOCO GOP bigwigs who want development over anything done responsibly. Look forward to many years of litigation because there is no relenting on the side of justice and truth.

partdim 11 years, 6 months ago

I'm so tired of this "my people were abused" crap. Your ancestors may have been, but you live in today. Things change. Worlds evolve. If you think that type of culture would have survived on it's own, you're crazy. We have it so much better than our ancestors and this will all get changed in future generations. Your argument is like a grown person whining that your parents didn't give you enough toys as a child. Stand on your own two feet and stop acting like a victim.

Mike Ford 11 years, 6 months ago

It's nice to see that the beneficiaries of theft want those they stole from to be quiet and hide from view so that the viewpoint of conquest vexes that of guilt. As long as historically deficient people make uninformed comments as this one above, no one learns that this malfeasance continues. Lands taken from the Western Shoshone in Nevada against their consent in the last fifty years by a US Congress with plenary powers to break treaties. The Lower Elwha Klallam Peoples ancestors desecrated and removed from their burial sites by the Washington Department of Transportation. That entity having to settle with the Klallam People for $5.5 million and 19 acres of land this year.

Modernity is for those people who have no memory or concept of the past. These people are doomed to repeat the same atrocities over and over. It must be nice to have no memory or conscience. Can that be purchased or accomplished through a Christian Church? Can I steal land and ask for forgiveness and keep the land I stole?

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 11 years, 6 months ago

"NOBODY'S ever had it this bad before."

Only those who have to suffer through the daily agony and injustice of no highway through Haskell's wetlands, wouldn't you say, Pilgrim?

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 11 years, 6 months ago

My premise is fine. But hang on to your condescension as long as you can-- it's all you've got.

Kristine Bailey 11 years, 6 months ago

Have any of you ever noticed the 15 ft high DIKE along the Louisiana side of the "wetlands"? It is MAN ASSISTED. I use the "Farmers Bypass" every day to get from 59 to Louisiana. There is a corner of a field to the south that is always under water. Lots of ducks and geese going in and out. This is part of the mitigation plan. It will not be difficult to mitigate the wetlands and it will be bigger!

thirdeye 11 years, 6 months ago

The issue with the Baker wetlands and Haskell isn't an issue that even matters with this road. If Haskell is unhappy they've had 50 years to fix it with Baker.

kcwarpony 11 years, 6 months ago

It was the BIA who sold the land WITHOUT asking Haskell or the Indian community for our thoughts or consent on the matter. We're talking a white BIA official in Anadarko, Oklahoma back in the 1960's who was suppose to be looking out for our best interest. Yeah, right, by selling off our trust land out from under us. With the paternalist policy of the government, just how are we suppose to "fix it"?

And why would Baker be interested in giving Haskell a fair shake? They benefited from all this. Heck, I can't get anyone from Baker to answer a few research questions about how Baker acquired the land in the first place. A benefit of being a private university.

Please tell me, how do we fix this?

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 11 years, 6 months ago

They don't care about any of that, kcwarpony. They want a highway, and what they want is all that counts, especially when they can sumultaneously make the point that you uppity Indians (and environmentalists) need to be put in your place.

hawkattack 11 years, 6 months ago

Boog is the liberal equivalent of GW Bush. The man has no business in pubic office.

Leandra Galindo 11 years, 5 months ago

I think the 42nd Street option is perfect for the community...there is no reason to put the wetlands in jeopardy for the sake of pleasing people who are not aware how important the eco system is. Let's be real here...

rubix 11 years, 5 months ago

I think its funny to read about all these people so concerned about some rotting grass and a highway, when they just recently bulldozed 50 acres of timber around the East Lawrence Nature Center to build houses. Everyone is so bent out of shape over the swamp, but apparently this argument is MUCH MORE IMPORTANT than ripping up another section of wildlife...HOW COME?

Personally, I would love to see the SLT finished, and hopefully it will be SOON. I just wanted to see if anyone even noticed (or cared to complain about something that wasn't so 'political' and 'racist').

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