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Lawrence and Douglas County

Lawrence and Douglas county

Rental homes bring unwanted changes for some neighbors

November 13, 2006

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The education Kansas University provides does not stop at the borders of its campus.

Dale and Wanda Kring, who live about three blocks south of the KU campus, can attest to that.

"We have learned that Marlboro is the cigarette of the year, and Bud Light is the beer of the year," Wanda Kring said.

They know that because every day they pick up trash in their neighborhood while they go for a morning walk. At the end of a week, they'll have 15 to 20 grocery sacks full of trash, plus a few beer cartons and other larger items.

They also learn about current tastes in music, as stereos awaken them at least once per month. Biology also is occasionally on the course list. Just this month, Wanda Kring got to witness a young man urinating near the side of her house.

Most of the education, they assume, comes courtesy of KU students who gradually have become the predominant residents of their neighborhood.

The Krings know their story isn't unique. They're guessing that their response isn't either: Come July, they'll be leaving their home of 42 years in the 1700 block of West 21st Street to move into a new neighborhood on the northwestern edge of the city, far from the KU campus.

"We've realized that it is not very likely that we're going to change their behavior," Dale Kring said. "They're kids who are 18 to 21 years old. They're going to have a good time."

Dale and Wanda Kring are leaving their central Lawrence home of 42 years because of problems with neighboring rental properties and trash. The Krings, pictured at their home, displayed some of the trash they collected last week while walking in their neighborhood.

Dale and Wanda Kring are leaving their central Lawrence home of 42 years because of problems with neighboring rental properties and trash. The Krings, pictured at their home, displayed some of the trash they collected last week while walking in their neighborhood.

Seeking fixes

The Krings' story is not the tale that city leaders want to hear. Concerns about the city's older, core neighborhoods becoming predominately student rental districts frequently are expressed at City Hall.

"That type of situation is not the best result for the community," City Manager David Corliss said of people feeling like they have no choice but to leave their neighborhood. "We want strong, vibrant neighborhoods throughout Lawrence. We don't want someone having to leave a certain part of town because they don't like the condition of their neighborhood."

But city leaders also admit that enforcing the various city ordinances designed to promote peace and tranquility in a neighborhood can be difficult.

They have approved two ordinances specifically designed to deal with such neighborhood issues. The first is a nuisance house ordinance, which allows a home to be declared a nuisance house if its occupants or their guests receive two noise complaints, disturbing the peace or similar violations in a one-year period. The ordinance allows the landlord of a rental home to be taken to court, in addition to the tenants.

The law sat on the city's books for five years without generating a single prosecution. But this summer, city commissioners made some minor tweaks to the law, and, more importantly, gave the police department better resources to track complaints on individual homes.

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Scott Miller, a staff attorney for the city, said the result has been that tenants and landlords from more than a half-dozen homes have been called in for "abatement conferences." The point of the conferences are for city prosecutors to tell tenants and landlords what must change in order for them to avoid prosecution.

Thus far, the approach has been working, Miller said.

"The vast majority of tenants that we have talked to have been very contrite," Miller said.

Efforts to enforce a second ordinance - this one designed to prohibit more than three unrelated individuals from living in a single-family home - have not been as successful.

Corliss said enforcement continues to be a challenge because a court often demands more evidence than what is easily observable by neighbors or officers. For example, the mere presence of more than three cars at a home often is not enough to win a court case.

But Corliss said the city is trying to beef up enforcement in other ways. Beginning in 2007, the city's police force will include two neighborhood resource officers. Their main jobs will be to act as liaisons between the police department and neighborhoods.

"They'll get familiar with some of the hot spots where there are occasional problems," Corliss said.

Zone them in

Police discuss 'zoning' issue

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The city also is taking a look at some outside-the-box type of solutions, Corliss said. His staff is examining a concept called "owner-occupied zoning." That would allow the city to create areas of town where each single-family home had to have an occupant who was an owner of the home.

The biggest question with that concept is whether it would withstand an almost certain legal test. Dwight Merriam, a Connecticut-based attorney who specializes in zoning law, said he's doesn't know of any community that uses such a zoning code.

"In terms of creating a zoning ordinance that sets it up as renters versus owners, I don't think that is legally defensible in any state," Merriam said.

He said university communities typically have challenges with preserving single-family neighborhoods. Sometimes it requires cities to take an entirely different approach to dealing with students, he said.

"Instead of thinking about ways to zone them out, you sometimes have to think about how to zone them in," Merriam said.

He said in Chapel Hill, N.C., the community has created special zoning areas that allow for the construction of four-bedroom apartments that have a shared living room and kitchen. The areas are close to the University of North Carolina campus. The result has been that those areas have become the place students want to live rather than in traditional single-family neighborhoods.

"You have to give up trying to keep some of those areas as traditional single-family neighborhoods, but this way, you save some of your other single-family neighborhoods," Merriam said.

Just memories

Any new idea won't benefit the Krings. The couple - who used to operate Kring's Interiors before turning it over to their grown children - are resigned to the fact that their neighborhood isn't going to change back to the way it used to be.

"Once you drive the families out, you are not going to get them back," Dale Kring said in a matter-of-fact tone.

There's no bitterness, however.

"There's nothing wrong with the kids," Wanda Kring said. "They're good kids. They're just in the wrong neighborhood."

And Dale Kring said he understands it is tough for the city to adequately enforce some of its ordinances, although he would like more police presence so that the current process wouldn't have to be so complaint-driven.

The lack of bitterness, though, doesn't make the changes in the neighborhood any less sad, Wanda Kring said.

"Children used to play in their yards and ride bicycles," Wanda Kring said. "It was a real neighborhood. It was so fun. It was all built around Schwegler School."

"Now," Dale Kring adds, "a lot of the kids at Schwegler have to be bused into the neighborhood."

Comments

cool 7 years, 5 months ago

funny thing KRING's downtown store has a sign up APARTMENT FOR RENT.

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melott 7 years, 5 months ago

Unfortunately, zoning is an accepted concept in this country, Libertarians aside. One of the things we have "single-family" zoning, with clear intent, put in place about 50 years ago for the south campus area, but which has been evaded as it is turned into rentals. The conversion to rentals negatively impacts the home value of residents who live in the area.

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Sigmund 7 years, 5 months ago

I think Jamesaust point was as soon as you limit a formerly legitimate use of private property, as a rental unit for instance, you negatively impact its value in the market. Government zoning can be so restrictive as to be confiscatory. While the government is allowed to take property via eminent domain, it has to pay the current owners for the privilege, darn that constitution! The government doesn't want to to pay so it tries to restrict it just enough to restrict use (and negatively impact value to the owner) but not enough it crosses the line and have to pay.

But that was just my take on his comment. he obviously can speak better on his meaning.

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Irish_Prince 7 years, 5 months ago

"beooootches".

Ah, okay.....person who accuses others of being "pathetic".

LOL! Man, what rich irony!

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offtotheright 7 years, 5 months ago

kmat, Yes, I think a property owner has a RIGHT to rent to whomever, or not to rent to whomever they darn well please!

The Krings will make a bundle if they split their house into a 2-3 unit rental. I hope they do, I don't live anywhere near there....keep those loud, disrespectful kids out of my neighborhood!

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Kathy Getto 7 years, 5 months ago

Posted by Irish_Prince (anonymous) on November 13, 2006 at 1:10 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I am for certain that when a person litters...it should tell you all you need to know about that person's character.

Litterbug=jerk.

You are so right Prince! Like old washing machines littering the front yard, junk cars, trash in the yard and the screen door hanging open? Litterer=Litter

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janeb 7 years, 5 months ago

OMG People can't we all just try to get along?

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bunnyhawk 7 years, 5 months ago

I lived near campus for years. For the most part, my student neighbors were great. After several calls to the LPD about one guy who had an amazing PA system, an officer suggested I find out who owned the rental property and call the owner every time I was awakened during the night. That was a VERY effective strategy!!!

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JayCat_67 7 years, 5 months ago

What? You've never heard of a landlord asking for references? Most places I've rented from asked for them, and the one that didn't, I would not recommend to anyone.
Actually, most of the college students we've had for neighbors have been excellent. They've been very generous when my kids have had fundraisers. They have also come over and played basketball and other games with them. One, I think, even scored some brownie points with his girlfriend doing this. ("Aww, how cute!!!") The really funny thing is that once they got to know us and our little hoard, the partying continued, but they weren't nearly as loud or messy. Guess when your neighbor has a face and is not just the generic "they", it makes a difference. As far as the Bert Nash types, I deal with quite a few of them, and yeah, there probably are some shammers out there, but for the most part these folks really need the help. So let's knock it off with the generalizations.

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you_are_pathetic_people 7 years, 5 months ago

what a bunch of whiners..... deal with it beooootches.....

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kmat 7 years, 5 months ago

offtotheright - please explain to me your comment

"Why would it be ok for a landlord to discriminate against loud 19 year olds, but not unmarried shack ups??

WHAT???????? So, in your logic it's ok to be biased against a person because they aren't married? Excuse me! Did the state become theocratic while I slept last night? Big difference between loud, law violating drunken students and an unmarried couple.

Since my husband and I lived together for 6 years before getting married, should we have been denied housing? Should we just let the govt move into our bedrooms to decide if it's ok for non-married couples to live together?

What is going on in this town? I think many have gone crazy.

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Godot 7 years, 5 months ago

By the way, what are the Krings doing with their old house come next July? Wouldn't it be a hoot if it turns out they intend to rent it out?

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kmat 7 years, 5 months ago

Thanks to all for showing couranna1 what a bigot she is against those in our community that need help.

I do know something about subsidized housing (which this thread ISN'T about). You turned a thread about rude college students into a "let's bash the mentally ill that need our help" thread. Good job. I just love it when people show their true colors because they aren't face to face with someone. Would you be this big of a bigot if you couldn't hide behind your keyboard?

I think you're jealous because you want what he's getting. You said he doesn't cause any problems, you just think he's getting a free ride. The color green seems to fit your posts.

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Godot 7 years, 5 months ago

I do not see how the city has any standing to restrict where students live. However, KU does. KU ought to step up to the challenge and make some rules about where undergrads can live. Restricting first-year freshmen to campus housing makes sense; after that, either requiring unmarried undergrads to live in university endorsed multi-family housing, or giving them a discount on tuition if they do, would solve several problems.

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GardenMomma 7 years, 5 months ago

Jamesaust, could you please explain the link between owner-occupied zoning and eminent domain? Thank you.

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BrianR 7 years, 5 months ago

"I asked him how he got this and his response was jus have to play crazy long enough." --couranna1

Do you honestly believe that this person would freely admit that they're suffering from a mental illness?

If this person is lucid enough to have this conversation with you they're also lucid enough to know that there is a stigma that comes with mental illness. This person's response to you isn't an unusual response from one in their prediciment. Please don't come on here and pretend you have some vast knowledge about mental illness or Bert Nash, you're demonstrating neither.

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Sasquatch34 7 years, 5 months ago

couranna1 - Your kind of generalizations are dangerous and ignorant and are reserved for bigots. Congrats on outing yourself publicly.

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couranna1 7 years, 5 months ago

kmat I never condoned bad behavior and no do not work for Bert Nash Case in point I live next to a guy right now that pays 30 dollars a month for an apartment the paper had listed for 575. He drinks a lot No he is not noisy but he threatens suicide all the time and takes his meds inappropriately. He wants a friend. The solution by someone was he should go to college. They gave him a car paid the tags, insurance, and 25 cents a mile to go to school plus all tuition and fees and books. plus 450 a month to live on. I asked him how he got this and his response was jus have to play crazy long enough. Take a good look at this issue and you will see way too much abuse by people to make it a viable program. I know it helps people but too free with the bucks I commute to KC also and no Lawrence would not thrive at all w/o the college as it would not have anything to offer except a bedroom community. So learn your facts about subsidized housing before you spout off the politically correct crap. Nice try though

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lrN51EXCXydF 7 years, 5 months ago

WHAT! When did they start letting students live in Lawrence?

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offtotheright 7 years, 5 months ago

I remember last year or the year before when the pregnant not married couple were refused an apartment. Every one thought that was horrible and discrimination! I believe the couple won a lawsuit for the situation.

Why would it be ok for a landlord to discriminate against loud 19 year olds, but not unmarried shack ups??

The Krings will love their new neighborhood! Please don't create any more laws that might make the students spread to my nice clean quiet neighborhood!

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Irish_Prince 7 years, 5 months ago

I am for certain that when a person litters...it should tell you all you need to know about that person's character.

Litterbug=jerk.

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conservative 7 years, 5 months ago

Hipper,

You are correct that the landlord isn't going to allow renters to stay if they are going to cause the landlord to go to court.

However the point is that the police have to be involved first. The landlord can't start any process to evict tenants without having cause. Just because the neighbors believe the tenants are violating ordinances does not cut it. If the landlords were to try and evict people without the correct documentation they would still end up in court, but would be on the losing end of a discrimination lawsuit.

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mom_of_three 7 years, 5 months ago

Communication with your neighbors seems to be the key.
Yes, this is a college town, and you should expect a few parties, but that doesn't seem to be the problem. The problem is with students and others not taking responsibility for themselves and those they invite. You (or your guests) make a mess and then you clean it up. Property owners are responsible if they don't lay down the law with the renters when it comes to parties and the aftermath.
And not all the bad ones are college students, low income or have mental problems.

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Dorothy Hoyt-Reed 7 years, 5 months ago

When I was young I did my share of partying. We used to go to Pomona lake to an area where camping was not allowed, but the rangers allowed us to stay there, because when we left, even the cigerette butts were picked up. When we got older, and had children and slowed down the next generation of party people went there and left behind litter and was rude to the rangers. You should have heard them complaining because the rangers blocked off the area. What whiners. Having a good time does not excuse you from rude, poor behavior.

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SpeedRacer 7 years, 5 months ago

The rental problems are not limited to students. There are several houses in my neighborhood owned by the same person. He does not maintain them to the neighborhood standards (but not to the point of violating a city ordinance) and rents them below market to anyone. As a result, some of the problems from other infamous areas of town are coming here.

kmat, some of these are not rentals. Mommy and Daddy (who don't live here) are buying houses for their kids to live in while at school so they can get some of their investment back. As such, these kids don't have to worry about the landlord.

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hipper_than_hip 7 years, 5 months ago

I have yet to meet one property owner that does not care that his/her renters are disturbing the neighbors or trashing the house. Now that the nuisance house law is on the books, no property owner is going to let a renter to cause them to go to court.

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kmat 7 years, 5 months ago

And drock - remember that there is a bus system for you students. There are dorms to live in. There are dozens of apartment complexes right next to KU. There is never a good reason to litter a neighborhood.

What the heck are the parents teaching their kids today?????? I swear it seems like everyone under 30 thinks the world has been given to them. You are a resident, just like everyone else here. Act like and adult!

Some blame does need to go to the property owners. If their renters are breaking the law (the noise ordanance is a law) then they need to warn them that they will be kicked out if they continue to violate the law. They are the property owners and they are who is responsible in the end.

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kmat 7 years, 5 months ago

Couranna1 - I do not work for the university and I don't hate college kids. Just keep on pulling those ASSumptions right on out of .....

Because this is a college town and there are few good jobs for professionals, I commute to KC like so many Lawrence residents do. My husband on the other hand is lucky enough to have a good job here in town (one of the very few that exist).

The jobs that would be lost if it weren't a college town would be all the fast food and retail jobs. There are so few jobs for professionals anyways. If this weren't a college town, it would still be a bustling suburb of KC. Because it is right between KC and Topeka, we'd probably have more higher paying jobs here. It would be a great place for businesses to set up because of the short distance between two major cities. Because it is a college town and our city govt is worthless, we have no good jobs here.

Your comments about subsidized housing WERE IGNORANT. Maybe you had one bad experience, but don't lump all of these people into your narrow viewpoint. Let's see, out of control, partying college students are ok. Those from Bert Nash that really need the help of their community are bad. To use your logic back on you - do you work for Bert Nash and hate the people it is helping?

Yeah, no matter what we'd have a Wal Mart. Not relevant to this conversation. We have such a huge one and a fight over a new one because of college kids. JO kids have mommy and daddy's money to spend.

If you had really paid any attention to this story or the posts you would see that the problem isn't the fact that this is a college town. THE PROBLEM IS WITH THE DISRESPECTFUL SPOILED PUNKS WHO HAVE NO RESPECT FOR THE RESIDENTS OF LAWRENCE BECAUSE THEY ARE ONLY HERE FOR A FEW YEARS. Their parents failed when raising them, the university fails by letting anyone who can muster a barely higher than retarded SAT and ACT score into the university (it needs to be more competitive to weed out the "I'm here to party" kids) and the city has failed by not enforcing its own laws.

Being a college student doesn't give them the right to disturb their neighbors, litter the neighborhoods and in general be disrespectful to all. It wasn't this way 20 years ago when I was a student. Like I said before, I partied a lot (while keeping a high GPA which I can tell you the majority of these kids aren't doing - according to the profs I'm friends with) and respected my neighbors. I never had the cops called on me and never had a complaint from anyone in the neighborhood (and there were me and 5 guys living in a house, surrounded by families - not students - and there was a party there at least a couple nights a week. It all comes down to being responsible and respectful, something a majority of these kids are lacking today.

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conservative 7 years, 5 months ago

"No one is jumping on the property owners"

Yeah, it's not jumping on the property owners when others are suggesting calling the owner at 2 in the morning to complain about the noise.

And to go to your argument about the do not rent list. Yeah the same thing is true with renting houses. If they can't pass the credit check then they won't get the house. But the rental car agency can't look at the people and say "I'm sorry we're not going to rent to you because you look like you may be loud".

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drock 7 years, 5 months ago

What in the world! I live in the same area as the Krings. I am a third year graduate student and this is one of the quietest, best areas around the university. I have never heard loud music or seen parties that would disturb anyone other than neighbors within an apartment. I am a renter and a student. This neighborhood is one of the most convenient for students to live in. I know it means we compete for housing with families and others, but really, do you want to push students out to the edge? People complain that single-families are being forced out to the edge of town. So what? If students were forced out there then Lawrence would feature 28,000 or so daily commuters to the middle. Talk about traffic! Then everyone will be complaining about the gazillions of cars clogging the streets of Lawrence. I think a little trash every once and a while is well worth the current situation.

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monkeyspunk 7 years, 5 months ago

conservative wrote: "If you had someone driving a rental car cut you off would you have an issue with the driver or with _ (insert rental car agency of your choice here)."

If a driver of a rental car breaks a law where they may be a picture of the tag. The rental car company is charged with the fee. Then in turn the rental car company happily passes on the fee to the renter, since they have their credit card number still.

Couranna, no one is making blanket statements about students. They are making blanket statemtents about the inconsiderate pricks that trash their front yards.

And to keep up with your analogy, Rental car companies can choose who they rent to, they have Do Not Rent lists.

No one is jumping on the property owners, but if anybody might have some effect on the trouble renters, it would be the property owner. Call the property owner enough when you have a problem, he will most likely address it.

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Calliope877 7 years, 5 months ago

I think too many parents of college students are wasting money on their idiot children. Yeah, it's okay to party while in college, that's almost an expectation, but have a little sense while doing so.

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Ceallach 7 years, 5 months ago

The article seems a little one-sided to me. I have lived in my current home for nearly 3 decades. Like the Krings, I live in the Schwegler area. Some of my very best neighbors have been renters, both families and students. Communicating with those new to the neighborhood has been very successful. That is communicating directly and getting to know them by name, not by calling to complain or calling the police if there is too much noise, or if their guests get a little rowdy on the street.

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conservative 7 years, 5 months ago

Why is everyone jumping on the property owners for the noise issues? Are you suggesting the property owners should be allowed to discriminate on who they will rent to? If not then they don't have control over the parties.

If you had someone driving a rental car cut you off would you have an issue with the driver or with _ (insert rental car agency of your choice here).

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macon47 7 years, 5 months ago

couranna1, unfortuneatly your statement "All members of Lawrence should be accountable for their actions" is not true today. no one is accountable, or responsible, you simply blame it on some one else. mcdonalds cause people to be fat. sorry, i am a killer, but i had a bad childhood. sorry i ran over your dog, i was stoned, ok? it is never a persons fault, always some one elses..

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couranna1 7 years, 5 months ago

To kaylakula: I certainly did not want to condone the behavior of people (anyone) who would do that. Bad behavior is not acceptable even for my young daughters. I am sorry your parents have to move they should not feel that pressure to do so. My thoughts on this issue were directed more at the blanket statements that all students are a mess and need to be stopped. All members of Lawrence should be accountable for their actions

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couranna1 7 years, 5 months ago

No they are facts even if they are negative, facts nonetheless

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Emily Hadley 7 years, 5 months ago

Communication is almost always the biggest problem.

MEET YOUR NEIGHBORS. Offer them your phone number and ask if you could agree to call one another when there is a disturbance. There is no use wasting police resources to coddle people's social anxiety with their next-door neighbors.

Many college students would also like to sleep at night, believe it or not, and my worst neighbors have never been students.

Don't be afraid to actually talk-- develop a sense of mutual respect, and they will understand that they ARE a part of the neighborhood and act accordingly. If your neighbors have a party, and the next day you notice evidence blowing or dribbling into your yard, start by going to the tenants and asking them to be sure to get everything. If they give you the cold shoulder, go to the owner/landlord/management company.

Many students do not feel accepted as residents in a neighborhood, and a mutual isolation develops. It is a two-sided problem. __

I was once talked down to by my rented home's owner after being awakened by loud, unannounced maintenance at 8 am, but after expressing that I worked two jobs, one very late into the night, plus afternoon classes, he seemed a bit embarrassed and apologetic.

I also have neighbors associated with Bert Nash services and any generalizations about such residents or programs are simply ignorant bigotry.

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melott 7 years, 5 months ago

The question is not whether things are different than they have been. The question is whether the law is being enforced, and whether the laws that exist are appropriate. We can't potty train these people, but they might be made to change behavior somewhat out of fear of consequences. Also, the zoning laws might do less to encourage the conversion of single family house zoned neighborhoods into rental ghettos.

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macon47 7 years, 5 months ago

crappy neighbors are not just students, once they move in, you have the choice to move or wait for them to move.

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don_burgess 7 years, 5 months ago

ilovelucy - It hasn't really stopped, but it makes me feel better.

I forgot to mention that if anyone keeps a car door unlocked at the house, you can always open it and turn on the headlights to drain their car battery. Vengeful? - Yes. Hateful - maybe. Satisfying? - absolutely.

Jonas -

Very nice. I like it. Now YOU are thinking! But why stop there? If the noise complaints originate in an apartment complex, you could always pull an alarm at 7am.

It's all about Karma. He who disturbs the peace of thine neighbor shall, in turn, have thine own peace disturbed.

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introversion 7 years, 5 months ago

How many of these people lived here before the University was built? It's always amazing to me that people get so pissed about "those college kids" as if there weren't college kids here when they moved to town. It's like people who move in next to an airport and get mad because of all the planes. Anybody who didn't realize that the University is a major component of this town deserves a rude awakening.

I sympathize with those that have had specific unfortunate instances, but I have a very tough time believing that things are all so much different than they have ever been.

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couranna1 7 years, 5 months ago

kmat: Yes, this is a college town, but considering there are about 25,000 students and 80,000 permanent residents, the students aren't the majority and this town has to care for all of its residents. Lawrence is such a small town and if the college was not here this would soooooo not like it is now. Numbers wise they are not the majority but economically they certainly are. If the college was not here look at all the jobs that would be lost how much does the University contribute to the city. Lawrence would be only known as the place you pass on the turnpike from KC to Topeka if not for the college. I take it you work for KU and do not like the students. Before you call me ignorant kmart I had two college kids live by me OOPS that would be a stupid premise to go there my biggest complaint with subsidized housing is a lot do not deserve it. You may have had a quiet one or two Who cares? Economically if it were not for the university and the students downtown gone like every other small town Chain eateries gone or not near the variety. At least there would be a Wal mart they love hick towns

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macon47 7 years, 5 months ago

Folks, get this, the city doesn't care. They can ban fireworks, smoking, They can hassle the yellow house, close naughty but nice, spend 3 hrs Of verbage at a commission meeting, but bugger rumble and schanuazer Will never do any thing anti- student or landlord. It would be easier To get them to ban beggars from down town. The kids have the right to Party and the old people have the right to get the heck out of the way.

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kmat 7 years, 5 months ago

couranna1 - Yes, this is a college town, but considering there are about 25,000 students and 80,000 permanent residents, the students aren't the majority and this town has to care for all of its residents.

I was a student here once. I respected my neighbors. Man, did I party, but we always remembered that we weren't the only ones living in the neighborhood. Those of us that are permanent residents, pay property taxes, and will be here long after these young jerks leave town need our rights respected.

I get so tired of the "college town" b.s. Yes, we wouldn't have the same town we have now if it weren't for the students, but at the same time the students would be screwed if those of us that work here to keep this town and campus functioning for them didn't do our part. It's hard to get to work (to cater to these spoiled brats) when they kept you up all night partying, disrespecting their neighbors and trashing the neighborhood.

And your ignorant comment about the subsidized housing - I had two neighbors from Bert Nash that were soooooooo much better than any college students ever were. Quiet, respectful.

I agree with don. Waking these disrespectful kids up early in the morning can be fun. I did it in the last neighborhood I lived in (which we left because of the students). It doesn't solve the problem, but revenge can be fun, especially when you're sleep deprived because of them. I've also done investigative work to find out the parents of these kids and thier addresses. I've then taken pictures of their kids (that were underage) partying it up, puking, destroying the property that the parents are paying rent on and sent them to them in the mail. Just as a nice FYI from the neighbors they were keeping up night after night. When they won't listen to the neighbors asking them to be respectful, ignore the cops who in the end do nothing, then it's the parents turn to see how their kids behave.

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girly 7 years, 5 months ago

Just one more freedom we'd be letting the city take from us. Neighborhoods change, one owner may live there for 45 years, but many others may come and go. Some properties will get sold, some may get rented out. That's life. We don't need the city setting more restrictions and taking away more rights.

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Kontum1972 7 years, 5 months ago

i bet if some of these kids threw trash, urinated or took a dump or anything else not regular on the lawn of one of the members of the courts like a judge..police chief..sheriff dept...etc....then there would be some real action taken. It just depends on "who you are" and where u are on the judicial foodchain....

and alot of it depends on the up bringing of these kids and we know who that falls back on.....hmmmm!

outkast i bet if u said that to MR. Kring to his face ..you might be missing a few teeth...to go along with the brains cells u are missing

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jonas 7 years, 5 months ago

DonBurgess: When I lived at Berkeley Flats, I had directly-beneath neighbors that would come home from the bar at 2 and start blaring Pantera (a band that I normally like) at extremely loud volumes. When I was then forced to migrate to my girlfriend's house, I would "forget" to turn off my alarm, which sounded like a descending horde of 2000 very pissed off geese. I doubt it helped the situation, but it sure gave me some spiteful pleasure in knowing it would go for two hours at six in the morning on friday morning. bwahahahaha

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hipper_than_hip 7 years, 5 months ago

I find that calling the landlord at 2am works wonders.

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kaylakula 7 years, 5 months ago

As the daughter of the "distraught" individuals to whom you refer, I can assure you that it is the attitude which OutKast exemplifies that leads to the current problems in residential neighborhoods. Sure my parents don't have to pick up trash, but they choose to in an effort to try and maintain the neighborhood in which they have lived for so many years. The bottom line is the failure of landlords and students, alike, to follow the laws and ordinances in place.

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OutKast 7 years, 5 months ago

As time goes by things change, if these people are so completely distraught, they should move or follow the protocol for handling these situations. Don't act like some kind of martyr, and pick up the trash, complain about it, when you don't have to.

"you've gotta fight for your right to parrrrrrty"- Mike D of the "Beastie Boys".......

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couranna1 7 years, 5 months ago

Lawrence is a small town with a college. the city embraces the money it brings in and sets up areas of town like Mass St to cater to them but when they get loud they get mad They have to live somewhere. The apts where I lived were full of college kids and yeah they made a lot of noise and there was a trash problem The noise you asked them to chill and they usually would except on occasion. The trash people got paid to pick it up. The biggest problem is all the nuts from Bert Nash on subsidized housing. They are loud obnoxious just like the college kids and drink as much but they are also heavily medicated and sometimes dangerous to themselves and others and they contribute nothing to the town only take a handout. One guy paid $20 a month for rent at a place everyone else pays $450, our taxes paid for his beer and strip club money and he would beg for cash also. College kids never did that and he never cared the smell out of place is awful and he does not care. I would rather have college kids in my neighborhood any day. Lawrence seems to want their cash but no infringements on their time Does not work like that

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ilovelucy 7 years, 5 months ago

Don: whereas I like what you propose, you are doing nothing but aggravating the problem. Have you noticed if it has cut down on your neighborhood partying? Just curious...

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macon47 7 years, 5 months ago

save your breath, the city wont do anything to disrupt the lives of ku students. not even bugger rumble and schanuzer no way, no how, they just dont care

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lonelyboy 7 years, 5 months ago

Agilla On this website there is a real estate section .. click on it and you can type in a house address and it will tell you who the owner is ...

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don_burgess 7 years, 5 months ago

If you have rowdy next door neighbors, I find it best to wake the hungover party-goers early the next morning.

I like to put on a black tie and ring their doorbells at 7 or 8 am to pass out religious propoganda. Then, I mow my yard and trim my tree branches with power tools. This seems to work well.

REMEMBER - Like vampires hiding from the sun, late-night drunken college students HATE mornings. You can use this to your advantage.

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truk13 7 years, 5 months ago

I'm a KU student, and I live near campus. I have to agree with the trash/party problem. It's pretty bad. I don't think any sort of ordinance is going to help. At my apartment building, kids party about every other night, the same groups of kids, usually. The cops always come. I'm not really sure what the cops do exactly, but the next morning, the steps are strangely sticky, the grass and bushes are all covered in broken glass, cans, puke, and fast food wrappers. This is even after the property managers hang repeated warnings of fines on all of our doors. - Those warnings ironically usually end up laying all over the ground as well.

It's going to be very very hard to get these kids to have any sort care or respect for other people or their property at this age, as their parents obviously failed at that years ago. They pretty much think they own the world already, and you're not going to be able to tell them otherwise.

so good luck. . .

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jennifermarti 7 years, 5 months ago

agilla- To find out who owns a rental you have to call to see who pays the property taxes. It's public information. Just call city hall info and they will give you the #.

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bangaranggerg 7 years, 5 months ago

How much do you want to bet that when these people move away from this home they will rent it out to some KU students. Exactly.

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macon47 7 years, 5 months ago

get a grip folks, the city has washed its hands of this, they do not care, KU means more to them than a bunch of old people that want to go to bed at 9 pm. THE STUDENTS ROCK. if it's too loud, you're too old, besides, when you get that old, you really dont have anything else to do, so you can pick up the kids garbage, they are too busy having a good time on their parenets money

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Jamesaust 7 years, 5 months ago

"[owner-occupied zoning] would allow the city to create areas of town where each single-family home had to have an occupant who was an owner of the home."

Or, it would allow government to not only seize private property for its own purposes but would absolve it of paying the owners for its value. Brilliant! Perhaps the entire government could be run on such principles? It certainly would save me a lot of tax money.

Hmmm....students do have to live somewhere. Perhaps Corliss has a brighter idea than having them live within walking distance of the University?

[Note to LJW: pencil in follow up story for 2008 about how the Krings love their new neighborhood and all the friends they've made there.]

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agilla 7 years, 5 months ago

Does anyone know how to find out who owns a particular rental house? Our next-door neighbors are a pain the neck when they are there, but they are there so rarely, it's hard to try to have a conversation with them... Someone stopped by their house at about 5 a.m. Sunday morning, leaving the car in the driveway with the stereo on and waking us up. They are too ignorant to realize that their driveway is right next to our bedroom window...

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macon47 7 years, 5 months ago

it is nice these elderly folks chose not to force themselves on the poor kids who were only trying to have a good time. it would be great if the city would just provide a place for old people to go so they wont be in the way of ku students . maybe like the old folks farms we used to have years ago. it would also keep them off the streets

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Aileen Dingus 7 years, 5 months ago

I have experience with "owner-only" neighborhoods in other states, but it was started with the new construction of the entire neighborhood.

I don't know if it would work well in an "established" area.

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compmd 7 years, 5 months ago

Ah, students, the future leaders of America. Aren't we all proud of them?

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jennifermarti 7 years, 5 months ago

I actually called in my neighbors who have rented their home out to 2 of their kids and 4 other friends. And the city went over and asked them how many people they have living there. Apparently that's how the "law" is enforced they ask and when the kids say only a couple people live there they move on. It's a joke!

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Richard Heckler 7 years, 5 months ago

Thus far this approach has helped,it seems, in our block. When rentals change hands approach the new neigbors and voice concerns.

Such as: It is acceptable to enjoy yourselves however around 9PM we would appreciate turning the party down to quiet basically. Explain that there are working and/or elderly families with or without children who need to sleep at night. If not expect a vistit from the LPD. Approach the new tenants ASAP.

If there is a visual problem when LPD arrive no other signed complaint should be necessary. It would be nice if the property owners could be contacted as well. Property managers of neighborhood single family homes many times do not seem to take a keen interest.

I'll ditto Melott on that enforcement concern as well. That particular ordinance is almost toothless.

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BrianR 7 years, 5 months ago

We moved away from campus years ago for the same reasons. The "no more than two related persons" ordinance accomplished nothing. It made it more difficult for kids to find housing and encouraged sprawl but that's about it.

These issues are about behavior.

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melott 7 years, 5 months ago

If you notify the city about trash in a yard, after looking it over they send a letter to the owner. They give them 2 weeks to pick it up. If they don't they send another letter, this time threatening to pick it up and bill them. Then they get another 2 weeks before any penalties are applied. Obviously, it is cheaper for the landlords to ignore this, doing any pickup once a month at most. An ordinance designed to provide faster enforcement was proposed by city staff but has been stuck in review for months.

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