Kansas legislature

Kansas Legislature

Gun veto overridden

March 23, 2006


— The Senate on Wednesday overrode Gov. Kathleen Sebelius' veto of legislation allowing Kansans to carry concealed guns.

The vote set up a final showdown today in the House.

If overridden in the House by a two-thirds majority, the measure will become law despite Sebelius' veto, and permits for concealed weapons would start to be issued in January 2007.

Sponsors of the measure, Sen. Phil Journey, R-Haysville, and Rep. Candy Ruff, D-Leavenworth, embraced after the Senate vote.

The Senate voted 30-10 to override, surpassing the two-thirds majority of 27 votes in the 40-member Senate.

"The monkey's on our back," Ruff said of the next stop for the bill, a veto override attempt in the House.

The strong override vote in the Senate improves the chances of overriding in the House, where 84 votes are needed in the 125-member chamber, she said.

"It puts a lot of pressure on the House, especially those that are yes votes and thinking about flipping. It's going to make those flippers think twice," she said.

Doug Wahl, owner of Lawrence Pawn and Jewelry, 944 E. 23rd St., cleans a gun at his shop. He says that people who are scared enough to think they need to carry a concealed firearm probably already have one.

Doug Wahl, owner of Lawrence Pawn and Jewelry, 944 E. 23rd St., cleans a gun at his shop. He says that people who are scared enough to think they need to carry a concealed firearm probably already have one.

The measure passed earlier in the House 90-33, but that doesn't necessarily mean those votes will hold during an attempted veto override.

Some legislators, especially Democrats, may change their votes to sustain Sebelius, a Democrat.

"I'm worried about six. I'm praying for 84," Ruff said.

That was the question in the Senate. The measure had been approved earlier 30-10, but six of those votes were from Democrats.

But on Wednesday, the earlier vote held fast.

"I decided to stick with my position of 10 years," said Sen. Chris Steinegar, D-Kansas City. "I don't like voting against my governor, but 99 percent of the time I'm with her."

Steinegar said he didn't think Sebelius' veto of concealed carry would hurt her re-election campaign. "This is going to be a road bump in her career," he said.

Journey, who has been working to get the measure passed for years, said the issue wasn't about politics. "It's about making Kansans safer, and it's about making Kansas a better place for our citizens," he said.

Under the bill, Kansas residents 21 or older with no criminal background or history of mental illness or drug abuse could obtain a four-year permit after completing an eight-hour training course.

Sebelius argued concealed carry would make Kansas more dangerous.

"While every law-abiding Kansan has a right to keep and bear arms, hidden weapons make it harder for law enforcement to do its job, and they make Kansas' workplaces less safe," Sebelius said in her veto message.

In Lawrence, reaction to the prospect of Kansans carrying concealed weapons was mixed.

John Geery, manager of Jayhawk Pawn and Jewelry, 1804 W. Sixth St., said his brother was killed in a gun accident so he said he is a little skittish when it comes to guns anyway. "He was just playing around with a gun and bad things happen."

"I don't know that it's really necessary," he said of the concealed weapon law. "You can have all the training in world but it doesn't really matter if you are drunk and making bad decisions that could harm somebody's life."

Doug Wahl, owner of Lawrence Pawn and Jewelry, 944 E. 23rd St., said, "I think anybody who is scared enough that they think they have to carry a concealed firearm probably already has one.

"One of the benefits of a concealed carry law would be that the bad guys won't know who has them."

"The whole point about concealed is that little doubt in your head that someone could have them," Wahl said. "It's not so much about carrying a concealed weapon, it's that you could have a concealed weapon."

The Lawrence Police department has no official position on the law.

Last month, Chief Ron Olin told participants in the department's citizen's academy that he had mixed feelings. He said there are a lot of people who already carry weapons on them, but whom police never encounter because they don't cause any trouble.

Then there are the violent criminals, for whom the law makes no difference.

"They're already carrying the guns concealed," he said.

Ed Pavey, director of the Kansas Law Enforcement Training Center in Hutchinson, said officers must undergo 53 hours of firearms training and pass a qualifying test before they're certified to carry a gun.

In February, the Lawrence City Commission passed an ordinance that would make it illegal to possess a firearm within 200 feet of any place that serves liquor. The new legislation, if it becomes law, will override the city ordinance. At the same time, the legislation would prohibit someone with a concealed carry license from taking a weapon into a place that serves liquor.

Staff writers Mike Belt and Eric Weslander contributed to this report.


LawrenceKSisgreat 9 years, 8 months ago

I am sure it wont set of a "wave of gun-related accidents" but 1 innocent person killed or injured by a scared, confussed, drunk, incompetent, mistaken or for whatever other reason non-careful gun carrier would be 1 to much. I am NOT a religious person, but I do value anyones life a lot more than being able to excuse that.

rhd99 9 years, 8 months ago

So, what should this mean for people like myself, mm? When should I go out & get a weapon so that I am set for a moment when someone pickpockets me, & tries to steal my wallet? Is this a crime spree waiting to happen?

aeroscout17 9 years, 8 months ago


I vote for the 1911; not much of a Glock fan (sorry Glockownr) although I do have one in 9mm myself. I have seen three blow-up. Check out something in the S&W 40. Great stopping power especially with a special load like Hydrashocks or Golden Sabre.

LawrenceKSisgreat 9 years, 8 months ago


Where does this come from?

"The armed citizen stops or prevetns several million crimes each year."

Centrist 9 years, 8 months ago

What about the "law-abiding" citizen who has never had a problem with the law, but one day they snap because they are fired, or over a domestic issue, or ROAD RAGE, or whatever? You know, crime has to begin sometime, doesn't it. You're not born with a record ...

No wonder the rest of the world laughs at America - it's the freakin Wild West all over again!!

I propose something radically different - legislate the bloody manufacture of guns in the first place! We have GPS, micro-chip, everything you can think of these days. Why not tag every gun made and have strict controls on who gets the things in the first place ...

Oh wait, no .... that's "too much government", isn't it?

F***ing crazy nation, this ....

aeroscout17 9 years, 8 months ago

Centrist said" What about the "law-abiding" citizen who has never had a problem with the law, but one day they snap because they are fired, or over a domestic issue, or ROAD RAGE, or whatever? You know, crime has to begin sometime, doesn't it."

Happens everyday and doesn't always involve guns. Look at southern California last week; three separate shootings in three different Denny's. Remember Luby's cafeteria in Texas; think where the term "going postal" came from. None of these folks had permits and were "law abiding" until they snapped or had a bad day. On the other hand, what if there had been someone there that had been trained and was legally carrying? Outcomes might not have been so bad for the innocent.

geekin_topekan 9 years, 8 months ago

Carrying a concealed weapon isn't a crime?What about BRANDISHING a weapon? please help me find the answer to this one?A civilian feels threatened by a big black man asking directions.Shows a weapon as a show of force.Is this a crime?

Terry Bush 9 years, 8 months ago

Where does one TAKE gun safety classes in Lawrence? And can anyone point to facts as to assertions made over on a lawernce.com blog about SMALL guns (like derengers) being more dangerous then their larger cousins?

yourworstnightmare 9 years, 8 months ago

This is a good law for gun control because it places strictures on gun use, such as competence tests, registration, and criminal record. This is good precedent for the further reasonable control of firearms.

geekin_topekan 9 years, 8 months ago

And don't turn this into a racial thread... you know what I am talking about.I used black because you know who you are if this scenerio makes sense to you.

Centrist 9 years, 8 months ago

Yes, but Aeroscout, now there will be MORE chance of someone getting hurt because MORE people will be allowed to carry them in the first place. More weapons in the community = more chance. And that 8 hours cannot prepare anyone for a "snap". And again, I stress that the general population is not to be assumed as stable OR law-abiding.

eej5 9 years, 8 months ago

I say if you want to carry a weapon... why do you have to conceal it? If you've got a gun, I think the law ought to require you to wear it strapped on your leg for all to see. Then I'll make sure to stay away.

I don't know why people feel they have to conceal it. I think people would mess with you less ('cause that's everyone's argument right? protection?) if you're walking around with it strapped to your thigh.

nonimbyks 9 years, 8 months ago

Um, yes! What if it was a beer gut confederate flag truck driving woman with tatoos? Same thing, someone will take offense to your comment no matter the "what if". If you are that paranoid you should not be out in public anyway or are a mental case and probably would not be eligable for a carry permit.

This could be "what if'd" to death. Let's just stop that sillyness here.

The law is a good idea. Just do it.

Kelly Powell 9 years, 8 months ago

to be accurate with a derringer, you pretty much would have to stick it between their teeth....

JustWondering 9 years, 8 months ago

There certainly are a lot of NUT JOBS who shouldn't be allowed to carry concealed weapons, but CAN, just because they're RICH "good ol' boys" (of course, needless to say, Caucasian, of COURSE!).

Remember about a year or so ago, the retired cop, old white guy, who was in JCPenney's in Overland Park, he's so old and feeble he "accidentally" shot himself in the foot, when he went to put his coat down on the counter at the register when he went to pay?

And THIS nit-wit used to be a cop!
(SUPPOSEDLY trained to leave the safety on at ALL times, not going off "half-cocked")

Good thing he didn't kill some innocent child, or the clerk, or other shoppers, good thing he only injured himself, but I'll tell 'ya, there are some completely crazy old bats who shouldn't even be allowed to drive cars, much less carry concealed firearms!

Thanks, Republicans; you've just added to the costs for taxpayers to subsidize even more hospital bills.

There's going to be old white coots shooting everything their ol' blind-as-a-bat cataracts + ancient brains = perceive to be a "threat."

optimist 9 years, 8 months ago

To compare the 8 hours of training required by this bill to the 53 hours law enforcement is required to undergo is illogical.

Officers train on much more than just the safe handling and use of the firearm. I would be willing to go so far as to say that less than 8 hours of the 53 hours of firearms training is dedicated to simple safety and handling, though I'm sure it is continuously stressed during the remainder of the training. Unlike the average civilian carrying a firearm law enforcement officers in some communities in this state are put in situations routinely where they must make decisions where their lives and the lives of others are at stake. Most civilian will never be in a situation where they will be forced to draw a firearm let alone use it in their defense.

I believe the number of permits issued in the state will be fewer than 50,000. And of those a significant number will likely never or rarely carry. The issue however for criminals is who is carrying and are they willing to take the chance that their potential victim is willing and now able to protect themselves.

The added benefit to this law is the fact that many people who already have firearms will be trained in gun safety where they otherwise never would have.

aeroscout17 9 years, 8 months ago

geekin_topeka, Unless you could show that you were in fear of your life, yes that would be a crime. Brandishing a firearm is lethal force and should only be done as a last resort. You would probably have to show that you exahusted all other reasonable alternatives (like leaving) before pulling your weapon or you would most likely be charged.

yourworstnightmare 9 years, 8 months ago

These same strictures (testing, registration) should be applied to gun ownership and purchase, and then people who pass these tests can carry their weapon any way they choose.

Hong_Kong_Phooey 9 years, 8 months ago

If everyone thinks that this is going to "deter the bad guys", why don't you all just wear your guns out in the open for everyone to see?

yourworstnightmare 9 years, 8 months ago

Good. I'm glad the house have overridden the veto. Now we can get serious about placing the concealed-carry strictures in this law on gun ownership and purchase.

erichaar 9 years, 8 months ago

"and it goes off in my face"

A huge misnomer is that guns just "go off." A gun doesn't "go off" anymore than a car starts itself or a lamp turns itself on.

LawrenceKSisgreat 9 years, 8 months ago

anyone having problems geeting to any other site beside LJW and SunflowerBB this morning? I cant find a probem reporting number anywhere?

Centrist 9 years, 8 months ago

The law also assumes that the 'victim' will be able to 'protect' themselves.

Well, in most case, the 'criminal' usually attacks with surprise, so in an instant, the 'victim' is overpowered and has just given the 'criminal' a weapon to use against them.

Way to go with those assumptions, lawmakers of Kansas ... way to go.

LawrenceKSisgreat 9 years, 8 months ago

anyone having problems geeting to any other site beside LJW and SunflowerBB this morning? I cant find a probem reporting number anywhere? I have not been able to get to any other sites since 5:30 am today. A real problem reporting # seperate from the customer support # would be nice.

usaschools 9 years, 8 months ago

How about not allowing anyone to purchase a gun who has not completed a high school education with a B average or better? No GED's. If you aren't educated, there is a strong probability that you won't make good choices with a firearm. One should also have to prove the ability to read to get a firearm.

Just a thought. Flame away.

Centrist 9 years, 8 months ago

Here we go with liberal-bashing yet again. Why do you ignoramuses on the Right always assume that criticism comes from the Left? And why is it that every time someone has an opposing view to yours, you have to demean and put down? Hmm ... some of us have criticisms to give without character assassination ... and some of us are against this law and are NOT 'liberals' ..

bankboy119 9 years, 8 months ago

And it should have passed the house. Good.

9 years, 8 months ago

"what makes us think that Kansas will properly identify all the 'bad' people who will apply for the C&C permit?"

They won't, of course, but so what? The solution to your problem is to eliminate permits altogether and just allow anyone who has a legal right to own a gun carry one concealed. I have no problem with that.

Bad guys carrying guns don't scare me, because they already carry guns. But good guys carrying guns scare them and ought to.

rhd99 9 years, 8 months ago

Well, DOWN WITH THE REPUBLICANS of this legislature if a crime spree starts where there wasn't one. That'll be the end of the creationist zionists!

staff04 9 years, 8 months ago

Bad law. Bad policy. Bad for Kansans. Thank you, KS legislature, for putting more guns in public.

To all who support this law, I don't have a problem with your personal views. I do have a problem with the logic that tells you that carrying a gun makes you safer. Instead of you losing your wallet, your family and children lose you. Sure, you shot the bad guy, but he shot you in the process too...but you were safer because you had your piece with you...

topflight 9 years, 8 months ago

Well, all of you that are for this better not start bitching and moaning the first time a Police Officer shoots an armed suspect. The moment that gun comes out of concealment and is even flashed in the direction of an officer or another civilian, that is all she wrote. Then you liberal jerks will get on here moaning how the police need more training and that they shot an innocent person. Pretty soon, you will want to have civilians all to have guns and not the police. Sounds like the Police should get larger caliber guns now. Also, the same people who are so opposed to Tazers, now are supporting civilians with guns. Your all nuts.

staff04 9 years, 8 months ago

hmmm...usaschools has an interesting thought...

That would probably keep at least half of the applicants from getting permits...2/3 in western KS...

9 years, 8 months ago

"Here we go with liberal-bashing yet again. Why do you ignoramuses on the Right...you have to demean and put down?"

Hahaha, snort... oh, that's gorgeous. Just beautiful.

Any idea what time the override vote will occur in the House?

DaREEKKU 9 years, 8 months ago

I really don't like the thought of me bending down to help a person at work...and they might just happen to have a gun in their pocket...right in my face...what if the pathetic 8 hours of training didn't teach them to properly put it away and it goes off in my face? Arming the masses is only sure to bring more crime, not less crime....

armyguy 9 years, 8 months ago

I had to think about this, however 8 hours of training is about all I had in Basic Traning, USAF in the 80's, didn't touch a gun again till we the 90's for a couple of hours. A few more hours of training (less than 8) before my unit left for Iraq. Were I was around 100+ Kansas folks with loaded guns 24 hours a day. I can say there wasn't much crime among us.

Anybody know where I can buy a bumper sticker that reads "Pardon my Driving, I'm reloading"?????

9 years, 8 months ago

The easiest way to answer the question of what will happen is to ask what has happened. I mean, come on, eople: Kansas is one of 4 states that do not have concealed carry. If the fears of the opponents of concealed carry had any basis in fact, then Kansas would be an island of peace in an ocean of street shootings, dead children, and crippled law enforcement. Bodies would be piled all around our border, with refugees pouring into Garden City and Pittsburg to escape the war zones of Colorado and Missouri.

Since none of those things have happened in any of the 46 other states that have some form of concealed carry, it's a little silly to pretend that they are going to happen here.

LawrenceKSisgreat 9 years, 8 months ago

I am not so sure about this comment "Arming the masses is only sure to bring more crime, not less crime...." . Look at Somalia. Around 80 % of the population carry guns there and that is a nice, stable, secure and safe environment.(sarcasm) Lets "shoot" for something like that. And by the way. I am ex military and like guns , but it sure scares the sh** out of me knowing the level of incompetence within the human population. Just pay attention and watch the drivers you encounter anyday. I know there wont be as many gun carriers as there are drivers but there will still be a fair # of incompetent gun carriers. 8 hours of training is certainly not enough. In the military (infantry) we had months of training. Freindly fire accidents are still way to common withing that highly trained population.

rhd99 9 years, 8 months ago

Thanks Staff04, but oh, by the way, I wonder how SUSAN WAGLE of Wichita plans her concession speech after the gubernatorial election, hunting down & shooting those who don't want her as Lieutenant Governor?! Oh, yeah, democracy really works, but when you have nut cases like her slamming somone like the human sexuality professor at KU just to get media attention, that's where extremism is going to kill this good state's reputation. I hope WAGLE knows that there are people here in Kansas, LIKE ME, who don't want her in higher office making decisions that could force businesses to move OUT of this state. Her track record speaks for itself.

bankboy119 9 years, 8 months ago

Well he got one thing right, the police were more efficient against the unarmed Jews.

assistant1234 9 years, 8 months ago

I believe only 4 other states besides Kansas DO NOT allow permits for concealed weapons. Somehow I don't think this going to set off a crime spree or a wave of gun-related accidents. Calm down, hippies.

Kelly Powell 9 years, 8 months ago

high grades does not mean you have common sense....plus using your criteria we would not have half our armed forces....Personally i would like to have them make the training course much more involved and a lot tougher to pass. Marion: i have never been a big fan of the glock, so I say go for the colt.....And have you ever fired a 10mm? Is it the super round that they hyped it to be?

LawrenceKSisgreat 9 years, 8 months ago

"The problem is as soon as the first thug is blown away by a strapped, law-abiding citizen, the ACLU and every other far left group in Kansas will be screaming."

No sensible human being will be crying when this happens. Lets just hope the thug is not a innocent bystander.

legalisation will likely mean a few more guns.


In 2003 (the most recent year for which data is available), there were 30,136 gun deaths in the U.S:

* 16,907 suicides (56% of all U.S gun deaths),
* 11,920 homicides (40% of all U.S gun deaths),
* 730 unintentional shootings (2% of all U.S gun deaths),
* 347 from legal intervention and 232 from undetermined intent (2% of all U.S gun deaths combined).

-Numbers obtained from CDC National Center for Health Statistics mortality report online, 2006.

While handguns account for only one-third of all firearms owned in the United States, they account for more than two-thirds of all firearm-related deaths each year. A gun in the home is 4 times more likely to be involved in an unintentional shooting, 7 times more likely to be used to commit a criminal assault or homicide, and 11 times more likely to be used to attempt or commit suicide than to be used in self-defense. -A Kellerman, et al. Journal of Trauma, August 1998; Kellerman AL, Lee RK, Mercy JA, et al. "The Epidemiological Basis for the Prevention of Firearm Injuries." Annu.Rev Public Health. 1991; 12:17-40.)

OldEnuf2BYurDad 9 years, 8 months ago

I only have one BIG fear about this carry law: it will be administered by the government. If Homeland Security cannot keep criminals from being TSA screeners and baggage handlers, what makes us think that Kansas will properly identify all the "bad" people who will apply for the C&C permit?

But, yes, Bob is right: stick with the 1911 frame. Nearly 100 years old and still a superior design. If you want something simple, the .38 revolver is still a great choice. Ladies may want to consider the ease of use and sleek appearance of a nickle-plated hammerless model (S&W is what I'd recommend; get mother of pearl handles and you'll be safe, in style). Get the "Plus P" cartridges and it will stop anyone seeking to tarnish your dignity in a dark alley. You can try Krav Maga, but a .38 will never muss your manicure.

badger 9 years, 8 months ago

aeroscout -

Regarding Luby's, there were people there trained and permitted to carry, even though Texas didn't yet have concealed carry.

Several of the people in the restaurant were off-duty law enforcement officers on lunch hiatus from a convention or meeting (I can't recall which because it's been almost 15 years) not far from there, who were not carrying their weapons though the law would have allowed them to be armed even if they weren't in uniform.

Concealed carry may increase the odds that someone could stop a situation like that, but it's important to remember that even the fact that it is legal for someone to have a gun someplace doesn't mean that a capable, responsible citizen will not only have his concealed firearm with him, but also have spent enough practice time at the range to be a good enough shot to do anything besides add to the chaos.

8 hours of training to get the permit doesn't mandate that you actually be consistently able to hit what you're aiming at. It's my understanding that the bill doesn't require you to keep up with regular practice. I think most people who choose to carry concealed would, but I also know one woman in Douglas County who will be among the first in line to apply for a concealed carry permit, who's been carrying concealed illegally for years whenever she determined it was 'necessary', who hasn't been to the range in better than 18 months, and in over a year before that. She 'keeps meaning to get back into the habit' but 'never has the time.' She's told me she'd 'sit through' the training, but doesn't particularly expect it to teach her anything she hasn't been taught before.

She'll be out there in the mix, and so will a few others like her, definitely a minority but still present. The law won't change what she's doing that much, obviously (since she was already occasionally driving around Lawrence with a gun under her seat or walking around with one in her purse), but it will validate her belief that what she was doing was right - just ahead of the legislature, that's all. It will also encourage her to carry all the time, wherever she goes, instead of just when she thinks she needs to take extra measures to protect herself. It won't, however, encourage her to make more time for practicing at the range.

I don't think her irresponsibility is grounds for opposing concealed carry. It's just a good idea for those supporting it to remember that just as not all drivers are responsible and conscientious, not all gun owners are either, and increasing the likelihood that people on the street will be armed also increases the likelihood that stupid people on the street will be armed. It's got its downsides like anything else, and there's no guarantee that the guy who pulls out his own gun when someone starts shooting up Weaver's is going to help matters.

9 years, 8 months ago

One_More_Bob: exactly, and yet I note that Vermont's murder rate is, through some unexplainable coincidence, always left out of the stats that show how bad CCW is...Winfield Courier is the latest guilty party.

Vermont has the absolute best CCW laws in the nation, and its murder rate is 1.5/100k people. Kansas, safe in our cocoon from the evils of concealed weapons, enjoys a murder rate of 6.3/100k, or a little more than 4x higher.

That's not proof that CCW reduces murder, but it's proof that those those who compare Kansas to Louisiana and say its higher murder rate is due to CCW are full of it.

aeroscout17 9 years, 8 months ago

Badger, you raise a good point, but I can tell you the same story about LEOs. On the other hand (and I would have to find the stats again) I seem to recall that most "shoot-outs" (at least with law enforcement) occur within 10 feet and involve less than 6 rounds. At ten feet it is a little easier to hit your target, of course this isn't considering fear, nerves, etc.

I encourage anyone that plans to carry or use a weapon to train with it regularly or it is useless. I try to shoot at least every couple of weeks, although it has been difficult with my schedule lately.

ImpactWinter 9 years, 8 months ago

10MM is practically a magnum round, the FBI stepped down to .40 S&W because smaller officers and agents couldn't control the recoil. 1911 are fantastic firearms with a well documented service record. .40 S&W is a fine alternative to .45 with similar ballistic properties and is very controllable.

People concerned by this law's impending passage should take heart that the firearms industry is a model of Company responsibility in a way we only wish Big tobacco would be. Every thing that goes on in the Firearms industry has a signifigant amount of thought heaped upon it, and that usually carries to the people who are involved in the market, they are serious people who put serious consideration into the function of force in the modern world.

angelofmine 9 years, 8 months ago

What happened to the whole "guns don't kill people, people kill people" argument? LOL Carrying concealed doesn't make a whole lot of difference as to who is going to have a gun close at hand. If you place it in plain sight when/if you're pulled over, you can keep it in your vehicle.

It really doesn't make much difference to me. My fiancee can carry legally anywhere but an airport or courthouse without question, in any state. Mind you he CAN carry, but I'd say nine times out of ten, he doesn't.

I was brought up around guns, I learned to use and maintain them at a young age, and it just doesn't phase me. (And when I was brought up, we didn't have gun safes or trigger locks, my siblings and I knew better than to touch a gun without supervision)

We're all entitled to our own opinions and/or beliefs on the subject, no reason to get nasty. The vast majority of law abiding gun owners are responsible.

armyguy 9 years, 8 months ago

Just found this quote.

"This year will go down in history. For the first time, a civilized nation has full gun registration. Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will follow our lead into the future!" -Adolf Hitler,1935

Sigmund 9 years, 8 months ago

If this keeps just one coed from being raped it will be worth it.

yourworstnightmare 9 years, 8 months ago


Assuming your Hitler quote is correct, you are right that this legislature just introduced registration and testing as it pertains to gun use.

Concealed-carry will require background checks, testing, and registration. Welcome to Nazi Germany, armyguy.

yourworstnightmare 9 years, 8 months ago

Marion, you kill me. I love how you end all of your messages with "Thanks, Marion", even after "Hey KATHLEEN! I F+++ IN YOUR GENERAL DIRECTION!"


bige1030 9 years, 8 months ago

I'm one of those "liberals" who believes in Constitution first - but with no qualms about proposing amendments as necessary. As long as we have Amendment 2 to the US Constitution and section 4 to the Kansas Bill of Rights, I think that guns should not be regulated at all. Then perhaps the misguided "liberals" who are out to pass gun restrictions in circumvention of the Constitution will actually campaign to have those portions of the US and Kansas constitutions repealed before passing laws that infringe upon the right to bear arms.

I say - repeal the right to bear arms before passing gun control measures. But so long as we have the right to bear arms, it ought to be fully respected.

scififreak13 9 years, 8 months ago

Thank heavens. I'm a Democrat-Flaming Liberal mostly, but this is one of the things I have violently disagreed with the Democratic Stance on. I have always supported a Pro-Second Amendment Right to Carry. Within Reasonable limits (ie no felons with guns or those with Domestic Violence backgroungs), and basic background checks and training, I have always wondered WHY we didn't allow it. Now we finally do.

ImpactWinter 9 years, 8 months ago

it would be criminally negligent to carry a firearm in any manner in which the safety couldn't be controlled, or was at any real risk of disengaging from casual contact, it is also very risky to carry a chambered round in any firearm without signifigant safeties like the three-step safeties on 1911s or double action pistols that hold no potential energy in the mechanism. accidental discharges are rarely unavoidable, usually resulting in negligence on someones part.

aeroscout17 9 years, 8 months ago

I personally saw them explode. Two were .40 S&W, one was a ported .45 The two 40's had factory ammo, the .45 he wasn't sure. Glock replaced all of them under warranty, with no explanation. I just have a problem with the round not being being fully enclosed in the chamber.

I too have put 1000s of rounds through Glocks, but not without uneasienss. I still own a Glock 26, and think the design is good for 9x19 but not sure of the other calibers.

BTW, I know of at least one police agency that had several Glock Kabooms with .45 and switched because of it.

aeroscout17 9 years, 8 months ago

I should also add that the one .40 was shooting PMC ammo. The Glock rep told the officer that PMC is reloaded (but they still covered it). When I told the PMC rep that he just about blew!

ImpactWinter 9 years, 8 months ago

The feed ramps of older glock's in .40S&W were shortened to allow the subby .40S&W to chamber, which left a portion of the casing unsupported, with the high-pressures the .40S&W operates under, much higher than .45acp, the unsupported casing blew out, its a pretty well documented flaw in the early days of .40S&W issuance

KsTwister 9 years, 8 months ago

Hooray for the 4th Amendment. I was starting to think only the criminals had the guns. I will leave out the May West adage for now but may be a common greeting soon.

staff04 9 years, 8 months ago

Arminius- I'm really not even sure why I am going to respond to possibly the most dumbassed post of the day.

You said: "This is bad news for Sebelius. Her own party is running away from her and she has lost control."

How much of a retard can you possibly be? There are 10 Democrats in the Kansas Senate. Did you happen to notice the final tally of the vote, as mentioned in the article? It was 30-10 you idiot. How your twisted little pea of a brain turns that into some indicator of a lack of party loyalty, I'll not soon understand. You really should crawl back into your hole and stop with the BS.

LawrenceBoy 9 years, 8 months ago

This new law makes a police officer's job more difficult and dangerous. It also raises the stakes for anyone who happens to be stopped for minor offenses such as a traffic violation. The police must now, moreso than ever, assume that the person(s) they stop are armed and, therefore, dangerous. I suspect it won't be long before a police officer with John Wayne's syndrome shoots, and accidentally kills, another innocent person who naively offers their wallet or car keys (which in dim light can look like a revolver, NOT).

aeroscout17 9 years, 8 months ago

Staff04, I am not really defending Arminius's post, but 6 of the 10 democrats voted to override the veto. I personally am glad to see that it isn't straight party politics (as usual).

staff04 9 years, 8 months ago

aeroscout- You are right, but the point that I wasn't very clear in making is that this happens all the time. It isn't any indicator of party loyalty, as even Steininger makes clear.

OldEnuf2BYurDad 9 years, 8 months ago

I know a 70+ year old who shouldn't be driving a car, let alone shooting a gun, but he does. Not just any gun, but a "speed gun" that cost him about as much as a decent used car. For the un-initiated, a speed gun is exactly what it sounds like: a gun that is NOT fully automatic (like a machine gun) but a gun that has been modified so that the shooter can accurately shoot in very rapid succession. In the hands of a master, it's AWESOME to watch. In the hands of Mr. Magoo, very very dangerous.

I think we should be afraid that the 8 hours of training may not be sufficient. I mean, if all hell breaks out at Luby's or the Granada (sorry, I just had to), and citizens start shooting, how many of those citizens are going to hit the bad guys and not other citizens? Properly assessing one's environment and making tactical decisions is something that few people have been trained in. A shootout in the street has little in common with shooting a coffee can in a pasture, which is about all that some of those carriers will have in the way of "training".

Q: When did Saddam Hussein get shot?

A: By his own buddies, in crossfire, during a botched coup attempt. They had planned the whole thing, not noticing that if they all followed the plan, they'd end up shooting each other. If Saddam can't get it right, what makes us think that gramps is going to make the right decisions when he hears a truck backfire outside of the bank?

OldEnuf2BYurDad 9 years, 8 months ago

I don't want to give the impression that I'm generally anti-gun. I'm more anti-idiot, and too many idiots will be allowed to carry under this law.

I know a lot of guys who are very well trained with firearms (even in tactical shooting), and I'd have no problem with any of them carrying (as some of them already are). It's all of the rest of you that I'm worried about. What do you think of the average driver on the road? Most of them would qualify for a permit... but if they drive like crap, how good do you think they'd be with a semi-automatic pistol?

feeble 9 years, 8 months ago

A couple of interesting things from the bill (http://www.kslegislature.org/bills/2006/...) :

  1. Undersection 4, the following are disqualified from getting a conceal carry license:

a. anyone convict of, or placed on diversion for, a felony.

b. anyone who in the last five years was convicted of, or placed on diversion for, a misdemeanor.

c. anyone who in the last five years was convicted of, or placed on diversion for, violation of any municipal ordinance concerning domestic violence.

d. anyone who is in contempt of court in a child support proceeding

e. anyone dishonorably discharged from military service.

The applicant has to sign a waiver of confideniality in regards to medical and mental health records. You get to pay a $150, non-refundable processing fee. You get a full background check (national and statewide)

You can't carry the weapon into any of the following: A courthouse, jail, police station, any place where polling stations are set up, any city, state, county or national gov't meeting or (sub) commitee meeting, any fairgrounds, any state building, any atheletic event not involving firearms, any bar or "drinking establishment", any school (k - university/college/community college), any public library operated by the state, any daycare or group day care home, any church or temple.

Any employer, property owner or business owner can restrict or prhohibit anyone with a license from carrying a concealed weapon in (or on the grounds of) their business or property, provided that the employer, property owner or business owner has posted this restriction in "a manner resonably likely to come to the attention of persons entering the premise or property." Violating this terminates the license and is a class B misdemeanor.

ben_ness 9 years, 8 months ago

Arminius - The Republican Party controls both houses of the KS Legislature. Not too sure how them overturning her Veto is "her party" running away from her.


Redzilla 9 years, 8 months ago

What ever happened to just riding around with your shotgun in plain view in the gunrack of your pickup? A sad day when Kansans start feeling like it's desirable to conceal a weapon.

Devon Kissinger 9 years, 8 months ago

Stick with JMB's greatest design, the 1911, nearly 100 battle terstedproven years strong. The streets haven't turned red with blood yet and the vote is several hours old now.

bankboy119 9 years, 8 months ago

I knew there was a better reason than selling ice cream that the ice cream man came through on a rainy day last week!

Dani Davey 9 years, 8 months ago

KsTwister wrote "Hooray for the 4th Amendment. I was starting to think only the criminals had the guns. I will leave out the May West adage for now but may be a common greeting soon."

Did we pass a search and seizure bill today too?

Seriously, learn the Bill of Rights. They are important.

dizzy_from_your_spin 9 years, 8 months ago

Kansas Legislature & Law Abiding Citizens--1 Gov. Kathy Sebelius & Feloneous Criminals--0

KsTwister 9 years, 8 months ago

Yo Dani, unwarranted search with a permit to carry was what I was eluding to. One more thing to cause a few tangles with people who carry the concealed guns.

local_support 9 years, 8 months ago

I can't wait to accidentally shoot the mailman!!!

james bush 9 years, 8 months ago

Didn't some carry guns on racks in their pickup trucks which were visible in the back windows awhile back? Was that then or is it presently illegal? Did one need a permit?

Charles L Bloss Jr 9 years, 8 months ago

"While every law-abiding Kansan has a right to keep and bear arms" etc. Governor what does bear mean? Thank you, Lynn

Charles L Bloss Jr 9 years, 8 months ago

Oh, and my apologies to all the worried, terrified liberals out there. We have counselors and valium available. Thank you, Lynn

Lowell Holmes 9 years, 8 months ago

Journey said. "Many criminals are rational human beings" I just thought this line was funny.

conserv26 9 years, 8 months ago

Bad guys beware! Now the good guys can pack too and you won't know who they/we are ;o) Might make the bad guys think twice don't you think?

On the other hand, this permit better be hard to get ahold of, meaning there must be a lot of prerequisites and training involved before a permit is approved... I can see some jackass at a bar feeling like the tough guy pulling a gun out in front of everyone.

As long as they give these concealed permits to intelligent law abiding citizens who've passed a rigorous training and background check, this may just make our state safer.

ben_ness 9 years, 8 months ago

Arminius: Here is some simple politics 101:


No where in the KS state constitution does it state Democrats must support the the overturning of a veto. What it does state is that 2/3rd must vote to overturn the veto. If you look at it from a mathematical perspective only 10 out the 40 Kansas Senators are Democrats. This means that 3/4 or 75% are Republican. 3/4 is greater than 2/3 or 66%. Even if every Democrat had voted against overturning the veto it still would have been overturned as the majority rules, in this case 3/4 or 75%. I am just trying to figure out where my "Politics 101" was incorrect Kevin and how you figure Sebilius's party is running away from her.

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